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(Fox News)   University of Missouri suggests professors not assign homework on Wiccan and Pagan holidays. Unfortunately, Festivus is still not recognized   (foxnews.com ) divider line
    More: Amusing, Wiccan, Festivus, Missouri, student leader, Chinese New Year, Mizzou, homework, Krishna  
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2827 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Feb 2013 at 11:30 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-15 09:43:27 AM  
ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.
 
2013-02-15 10:06:10 AM  

Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.


But are there feats of strength?
 
2013-02-15 10:12:55 AM  
I'm so ashamed of my alma mater for being inclusive.
 
2013-02-15 10:13:31 AM  

ArkAngel: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

But are there feats of strength?


not particularly.  the pool parties are always fun tho.
 
2013-02-15 10:23:56 AM  
What about Robanukah the holiest two weeks on the robot calendar?
 
2013-02-15 10:36:13 AM  
We got no exemptions for anything.  Now get off my quad.
 
2013-02-15 10:42:10 AM  

Weaver95: And there's almost never any black magic orgies.


you're not going to the good ones!

img62.imageshack.us

Knows how to party!
 
2013-02-15 11:19:34 AM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-15 11:33:33 AM  
If they honored all holidays, there'd never be school.
 
2013-02-15 11:33:51 AM  
Then for the sake of equality, I want no homework on any saint feast days!
 
2013-02-15 11:34:19 AM  
Never underestimate the ability of a college student to expend more energy getting out of classwork than it would take to do the work itself.  This will blow up in their faces.
 
2013-02-15 11:35:10 AM  
Isn't Festivus always December 23rd? So, that's like school on Sunday...no class.
 
2013-02-15 11:36:05 AM  
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

Be Recognized
 
2013-02-15 11:38:16 AM  
Winter-een-mas?
 
2013-02-15 11:39:13 AM  
My religion (saying its name is not permitted) has holidays only on days ending in "y".
 
2013-02-15 11:39:51 AM  
What about "Talk Like A Pirate" day? hmmm? We're a big religion too ya know.
 
2013-02-15 11:39:53 AM  
No.  Also, fark off.

Christians have to do homework over their biggest holiday (Easter-- hell, if it's during spring break and they're getting a real degree it's not so much "spring break" as "spring bigger project worth more of the grade than usual week, hope you weren't planning to go anywhere"), and no one gives special allowances for holidays tied to non-stupid institutions like president's day and so on.  OK, maybe calling the US government "non-stupid" is a stretch, but it's leaps and bounds up on religion and we're not giving extensions on the weekly assignments for memorial day (unless it's actually due the day class is out, I guess, but who makes the homework due on monday?).

You are not special, do your homework and go away.

//Or don't do it.  It's College, if you can pass the finals and use the grade rubric we give you to bring everything up to passing level without doing any homework whatsoever then welcome to the real world, if you achieve the stated objectives then you get the grade we said you would, more power to you.  You're not pulling anything clever over on us, if we design the course so that you only have to do half the homework to make a B then we're perfectly fine with you doing only half the homework if all you want is a B, no damned skin off our nose.
 
2013-02-15 11:41:06 AM  
No pagan holidays? Well, then no reports on Christmas either,
 
2013-02-15 11:42:26 AM  
FTFA: "it's almost like an excuse to do nothing. It's like societal nihilism, where nothing matters."

No one at U of M is claiming nothing matters. Since you're the one claiming 'nothing matters,' maybe you're the "social nihilist," Ms. Reactionary Dumbass.
 
2013-02-15 11:42:41 AM  

palelizard: Winter-een-mas?


I prefer "Hallowgivemas." I also considered "Chrisgivingween," but it sounds too much like gay porn.
 
2013-02-15 11:43:47 AM  
That could get complicated fast considering the days of the week are named to honor various Nordic gods, and the sun and moon.
 
2013-02-15 11:44:14 AM  

Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.


shiat, the black magic orgies are the best part.

/predictable joke

Wicca does have the advantage of having a god that is older than christianity's god, while being FAR more up-to-date in terms of religion's role in modern society.
 
2013-02-15 11:44:15 AM  
Love those Missouri wood hippie professors.

/RIP Terry
 
2013-02-15 11:44:57 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Christians have to do homework over their biggest holiday


Actually, a lot of public school systems in the US have traditionally given Good Friday off.  One of my Pagan friends working in the public school system is always pissed he has to work on Yule (december solstice) but has to take the Christian holiday off---precisely when he'd rather be working.
 
2013-02-15 11:47:58 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Christians have to do homework over their biggest holiday


Know how I know you didn't read the article and the holiday guide they have...
 
2013-02-15 11:48:26 AM  

TheBigJerk: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

shiat, the black magic orgies are the best part.

/predictable joke

Wicca does have the advantage of having a god that is older than christianity's god, while being FAR more up-to-date in terms of religion's role in modern society.


I think that anyone working on the military should consider worshiping the Norse gods, since they are more akin to their line of work.

I'd say Khorne, but that would get the US into more trouble.
 
2013-02-15 11:48:29 AM  
Nothing like a good eye of newt and toe of frog dinner.
 
2013-02-15 11:49:03 AM  
FTFA: Other holidays like Ramadan, Rosh Hashanah and Easter are included in the guide of 43 holidays with varying degrees of suggested accommodations to be granted to students at the 34,000-student public university in Columbia. For Samhain, listed as a Pagan and Wiccan celebration considered by some to be the Wiccan New Year, general practices include "paying respect to ancestors, family members, elders of the faith, friends, pets and other loved ones" who have died. The holiday coincides with Halloween.

The important thing is that we're at least back to crapping on mostly white people instead of brown ones---all with very little inconvenience to ourselves. And in the end, isn't that the real achievement here?
 
2013-02-15 11:49:52 AM  

uncleacid: Nothing like a good eye of newt and toe of frog dinner.


You and your unhealthy obsession with eye of newt. If it were up to you, the whole stew would be made of eye of newt.
 
2013-02-15 11:50:34 AM  

Jim_Callahan: No.  Also, fark off.

Christians have to do homework over their biggest holiday (Easter...


Easter is not even remotely Christianity's biggest holiday.  I'm sure it "ought to be" but it isn't.  there are several Saint's days that are higher on the list as Americans practice it.

Everything else?  Yeah, that's about right.  Real classes don't give a shiat about the holidays, they expect your ass to be working until the work's done, so get to work.
 
2013-02-15 11:53:28 AM  

Jim_Callahan: No.  Also, fark off.

Christians have to do homework over their biggest holiday (Easter-- hell, if it's during spring break and they're getting a real degree it's not so much "spring break" as "spring bigger project worth more of the grade than usual week, hope you weren't planning to go anywhere"), and no one gives special allowances for holidays tied to non-stupid institutions like president's day and so on.  OK, maybe calling the US government "non-stupid" is a stretch, but it's leaps and bounds up on religion and we're not giving extensions on the weekly assignments for memorial day (unless it's actually due the day class is out, I guess, but who makes the homework due on monday?).

You are not special, do your homework and go away.

//Or don't do it.  It's College, if you can pass the finals and use the grade rubric we give you to bring everything up to passing level without doing any homework whatsoever then welcome to the real world, if you achieve the stated objectives then you get the grade we said you would, more power to you.  You're not pulling anything clever over on us, if we design the course so that you only have to do half the homework to make a B then we're perfectly fine with you doing only half the homework if all you want is a B, no damned skin off our nose.


Yeah!  It's about time we cracked down on those lazy international students!
 
2013-02-15 11:55:43 AM  

cgraves67: Then for the sake of equality, I want no homework on any saint feast days!


Better yet, on no Jewish holidays.  They have lots of little ones like Tu Bishvat or Yom Ha'atzmaut.  And write off a month for all the holidays between Rosh Hashanah & Simchat Torah.  And no weekend homework because of Shabbat.
 
2013-02-15 11:58:43 AM  
Isn't every day a holiday for somebody?

Why don't we just stop working altogether lest we offend someone, somewhere, somehow?

However, a religion based on fat chicks isn't to be taken seriously.
 
2013-02-15 11:59:33 AM  
1. I dated a wiccan woman for a while, fun little minx.

2. That's what we need to stay competitive in the global market, more softball colleges.

/dntra
 
2013-02-15 11:59:40 AM  
"So, what's college like?"

"It's not really too useful for actually learning stuff, but you can say or lay claim to the most outrageous bullsh*t and everybody has to kiss your ass rosy about it or get fired."

"Seriously?  DADDY!  I need tuition money!"

Don't forget you stop by the degree dispenser on the way to your first barista job.
 
2013-02-15 12:00:29 PM  

cgraves67: Then for the sake of equality, I want no homework on any saint feast days!


That would be easy all 8 pagan holidays are mirrored catholic saint's days!
 
2013-02-15 12:02:15 PM  
As a graduate of 2 of the 4 campuses, sure, don't care what they do regarding that.

However, Mizzou can Fark off 1) for joining the college athletics money grab and jetting to the SEC for a better "cultural" fit.  2)  For undermining my successful graduate program and pulling some shady shiat in the process.
 
2013-02-15 12:04:13 PM  
 I find it more than just a little disinginuous that the people in article only started complaining when they added pagans to the list. My guess is that you didn't hear  peep out of them when they were not assigning work on christian holidays.

Lil hypocracy with that wine?

Hypnozombie
 
2013-02-15 12:07:27 PM  

TheBigJerk: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

shiat, the black magic orgies are the best part.

/predictable joke

Wicca does have the advantage of having a god that is older than christianity's god, while being FAR more up-to-date in terms of religion's role in modern society.


What?

Wicca is less than a century old.
 
2013-02-15 12:07:47 PM  
Universities, you see, are no longer about teaching or learning.  They're like medicine. Medicine isn't about healing.  They are about money.  Moving it in a specific direction, and keeping it.  The trappings are just that.  We've installed milking machines on every single cash cow left, and the people who run them will jump through any hoop you hold up as long as the check clears.  Obsequious culture is obsequious.
 
2013-02-15 12:10:49 PM  
No Festivus?

static.howstuffworks.com

I'VE GOT A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!
 
2013-02-15 12:11:46 PM  

not_an_indigo: Wicca is less than a century old.


yes "wicca" came about in the 60s the 1960s. But (and I love this part) they have traditions dating back to the dawn of time.

So, I'm going to start a cult to Bruce Campbell and include human sacrifice. Yeah it will be a new religion but it will have traditions dating back to the dawn of time.
 
2013-02-15 12:15:01 PM  

WhippingBoy: However, a religion based on fat chicks isn't to be taken seriously.


I am partial to the logitech wireless 4305.  Any flatscreen will do.
 
2013-02-15 12:15:39 PM  

Now I Is!: cgraves67: Then for the sake of equality, I want no homework on any saint feast days!

That would be easy all 8 pagan holidays are mirrored catholic saint's days!



Um. . . I think it's the other way around.
Pretty sure the catholics co-opted all the again holidays, starting with christmas and easter.
 
2013-02-15 12:18:40 PM  

TheBigJerk: Wicca does have the advantage of having a god that is older than christianity's god, while being FAR more up-to-date in terms of religion's role in modern society.

i.imgur.com


Point of Order: Wicca is generally duotheistic--with a God and Goddess. There may also be attention to various nature spirits and ancestors depending on the sect.

 
2013-02-15 12:19:38 PM  
Pagan!

/farking auto correct
 
2013-02-15 12:20:55 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: yes "wicca" came about in the 60s the 1960s. But (and I love this part) they have traditions dating back to the dawn of time.


upload.wikimedia.org

Don't quit your day job there, amateur historian. Its a quite a bit more complicated than that.
 
2013-02-15 12:20:58 PM  

TheBigJerk: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

shiat, the black magic orgies are the best part.

/predictable joke

Wicca does have the advantage of having a god that is older than christianity's god, while being FAR more up-to-date in terms of religion's role in modern society.


That's because Wiccans basically invented in the modern era.  Taking what they liked and leaving what they didn't.
 
2013-02-15 12:22:33 PM  
Eight days a year for Pagans and they complain. Weeks off for Christmas, built into the schedule. The mind boggles.
 
2013-02-15 12:22:41 PM  

ArkAngel: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

But are there feats of strength?


You need to hang out with the Asatruar and related Germanic/Nordic Heathen tribes for that.

/we also have plenty of food and homemade mead
//BYO drinking horn
 
2013-02-15 12:23:35 PM  

syberpud: Taking what they liked and leaving what they didn't.


Heck, all religions do that!  For a homework assignment, find the nearest polish catholic and mention the phrase "cafeteria catholic".  Step back and enjoy the show.

/don't flame me, Stosh.
 
2013-02-15 12:25:43 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: That could get complicated fast considering the days of the week are named to honor various Nordic gods, and the sun and moon.


I did all that homework for nothing?!? Oh, sonuva biatch.
 
2013-02-15 12:25:48 PM  

Somacandra: Point of Order: Wicca is generally duotheistic--with a God and Goddess. There may also be attention to various nature spirits and ancestors depending on the sect.


See that word?  That means that your one true way has sh*t the bed, jumped the shark and become a joke.  Works on any belief system.
 
2013-02-15 12:26:47 PM  

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: palelizard: Winter-een-mas?

I prefer "Hallowgivemas." I also considered "Chrisgivingween," but it sounds too much like gay porn.


www.myrpgame.com
 
2013-02-15 12:27:21 PM  
Today is the last day of Lupercalia so I'm heading home, folks.
 
2013-02-15 12:31:17 PM  
And for fun, try pasting that thing into Word and let the spill chucker do its wonders.

*Holiday with signficant work restriction
 
2013-02-15 12:31:28 PM  

uncleacid: Nothing like a good eye of newt and toe of frog dinner.


i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-15 12:32:54 PM  
By and large wiccan chicks tend to be bi and large.
 
2013-02-15 12:33:01 PM  
Asking professors to respect obscure holidays that students may or may not even observe?

That's a little silly.

FOX News' outrage over how non-Christians could  DARE consider their backwards traditions worthy of equal treatment?

Significantly worse.
 
2013-02-15 12:36:28 PM  

Skwach: Now I Is!: cgraves67: Then for the sake of equality, I want no homework on any saint feast days!

That would be easy all 8 pagan holidays are mirrored catholic saint's days!


Um. . . I think it's the other way around.
Pretty sure the catholics co-opted all the again holidays, starting with christmas and easter.


Easter is tied to Passover which is based on the lunar cycle. The name Easter comes from a pagan goddess (of springtime) whose rites were celebrated at the same time. This is only true for the English-speaking world. The rest of Christians have different names for Easter, usually some variation on Paschal.  If Passover has something to do with pagan holidays, I don't know if it.

Christmas is on the same time frame as the birthday of Mithras because we wanted to give the Mithras cult something to be jealous of.  Mithras was a war god out of the Middle East that found traction with the Roman army.

A lot of the locally-recognized  saints were actually converted pagan gods, heroes, and spirits. They've largely been weeded out by the modern church.

The fact that we've co-opted so much of pagan traditions into christianity gives me a sense of perspective about the co-opting of christian holidays into secularism.
 
2013-02-15 12:42:29 PM  

Persnickety: By and large wiccan chicks tend to be bi and large.


True enough, but while the goods are odd, the odds are good.
 
2013-02-15 12:43:57 PM  

syberpud: TheBigJerk: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

shiat, the black magic orgies are the best part.

/predictable joke

Wicca does have the advantage of having a god that is older than christianity's god, while being FAR more up-to-date in terms of religion's role in modern society.

That's because Wiccans basically invented in the modern era.  Taking what they liked and leaving what they didn't.


Taking what they like and leaving what they don't = every religion ever.
 
2013-02-15 12:46:24 PM  
farm4.static.flickr.com


Ramendan!!
 
2013-02-15 12:50:13 PM  

Mentat: I'm so ashamed of my alma mater for being inclusive.


Not a Christian, but I don't begrudge them their holidays. Knowing their historical propensities, however, I will decline the offer of a free "pagan" holiday for much the same reasons a Jew in WWII would prefer not to sport a yellow star for their coat front.

I'm liking the homebrew/naked dancing bonfire girls, however. All hail Jungian archetype of choice!
 
2013-02-15 12:50:48 PM  

cgraves67: Easter is tied to Passover which is based on the lunar cycle.


Everything Christian is tied to lunar cycles, because the Romans finally defeated Christianity by replacing it with their sun worshiping.

Sun dies on the southern cross during the winter solstice, remains 'dead' for 3 days, and is reborn for the next year on or around December 25th. All the tales of Jesus in the bible are allegories for the sun passing through the different zodiacal signs and other astrological events. I could go on, but any Christians probably already stopped reading anyway.

/behold, the great deception
 
2013-02-15 12:56:10 PM  

ArkAngel: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

But are there feats of strength?


Yes, it's who can stand the stench of Petrulli the longest.
 
2013-02-15 12:59:17 PM  
Meh, whatever.

I see no reason to not do it, because as is typical, other holidays are worked and/or time off is scaled back.

I remember getting two weeks off for christmas / new years like a mini-vacation.  Many places have scaled that back to work 2 or 3 days each week, which defeats the purpose of having a sizable break in the middle of winter, which is, to get time away!

Celebration, religion, whatever.  the functional purpose served is having enough time away from work to where you're more than ready to get back to work because you can only tolerate family and doing absolutely nothing for so long.  Most kids are all "Man, this sucks, we have to go back to school." while secretly glad for something to do.  Simply lightening the load does not accomplish, it's more depressing than anything, because you know it's only a couple of long weekends in which you have to work between, and many people only do so because of some leadership saying "just because" rather than any real need for the business/school.

Simply not enough time away from the grind and location that you're sick of being at.  The logic taken to the end of the line would be something like scaling back all holiday and weekends, work all day every day, but just adjusting the hours so that it's still 40 hours a week, and then requiring overtime(like they do now in a great many places).

So....slavery.
 
2013-02-15 12:59:49 PM  

cgraves67: Skwach: Now I Is!: cgraves67: Then for the sake of equality, I want no homework on any saint feast days!

That would be easy all 8 pagan holidays are mirrored catholic saint's days!


Um. . . I think it's the other way around.
Pretty sure the catholics co-opted all the again holidays, starting with christmas and easter.

Easter is tied to Passover which is based on the lunar cycle. The name Easter comes from a pagan goddess (of springtime) whose rites were celebrated at the same time. This is only true for the English-speaking world. The rest of Christians have different names for Easter, usually some variation on Paschal.  If Passover has something to do with pagan holidays, I don't know if it.

Christmas is on the same time frame as the birthday of Mithras because we wanted to give the Mithras cult something to be jealous of.  Mithras was a war god out of the Middle East that found traction with the Roman army.

A lot of the locally-recognized  saints were actually converted pagan gods, heroes, and spirits. They've largely been weeded out by the modern church.

The fact that we've co-opted so much of pagan traditions into christianity gives me a sense of perspective about the co-opting of christian holidays into secularism.


For some reason, I thought that easter also coincided with some pagan spring holiday that involved a fertility goddess, and that's why the easter bunny an' stuff.

I also thought that christmas was because all the christian converts kept celebrating mithras, or whatever, and so pope whoever needed to say it was a christian holiday too.

I don't know I think all these things. . . I just remember being told at some point.
 
2013-02-15 01:04:46 PM  

omeganuepsilon: So....slavery.


Rich people make money off of owning slaves.  Slaves subsist by making rich people money.  If you own a man's labor, your time is free to do commerce.  If you own a man's debt, you own the ground he stands on.  Ask the Rothschilds.  Still waiting for the great leap forward.
 
2013-02-15 01:14:37 PM  
Fark you, kid, you'll turn in your lab report when I say you turn it in, or you'll take the ten percent penalty like everyone else. Don't give me that religious holiday bullshiat, you've had a whole week to work on it.
 
2013-02-15 01:16:15 PM  
"Avoid scheduling major academic deadlines on this day, since it is likely that students will be operating on very little sleep,"

Um, work is supposed to be finished before a deadline.

"I like deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they sail over my head."  Doug Adams.
 
2013-02-15 01:17:44 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: And for fun, try pasting that thing into Word and let the spill chucker do its wonders.

*Holiday with signficant work restriction


You need a job, even if  it's only an internship or volunteering.
 
2013-02-15 01:19:34 PM  

Skwach: For some reason, I thought that easter also coincided with some pagan spring holiday that involved a fertility goddess, and that's why the easter bunny an' stuff.

I also thought that christmas was because all the christian converts kept celebrating mithras, or whatever, and so pope whoever needed to say it was a christian holiday too.

I don't know I think all these things. . . I just remember being told at some point.


Yup. The goddess involved was an Anglo-Saxon Heathen deity named "Eostre", which is where we get the word "Easter", aka "Ostara" if you are the Pagan/Heathen type. The Easter Bunny is representative of the Ostara Hare, Eostre's totem animal.

With Christmas, that's an important time of year for agrarian cultures regardless of the culture involved, because of the solstice falling around that time. Observances can last many days, depending on the tradition one follows. In my tradition, it lasts 12 days. It is also not "Christ's Mass", it is Jul/Yule. Nearly all of the Christmas traditions and trappings celebrated in the US are straight out of the original Germanic tribes' Heathen traditions. Leave out babby Jezus and you got yourself a celebration fitting for a Viking horde. (Scandinavians being one of the original Germanic tribes, of course)

There's some argument in the academic community about whether or not Eostre was actually a Teutonic goddess at all as there is no written mention of her until about 700-800 years ago. Well, no kidding. I often have to wonder how these types are called "academics" if they don't use even common sense. Most people from the assorted traditions that observe Ostara, including powerful tribal rulers
 
2013-02-15 01:19:49 PM  
Is a Mizzou student.

Is Christian.

Heartily endorses this plan.

/get on it with the Jews while you're at it
 
2013-02-15 01:21:32 PM  

Pixiest: What about "Talk Like A Pirate" day? hmmm? We're a big religion too ya know.


I had a problem with my enrollment and I had to see the registrarrrrrr.
 
2013-02-15 01:24:40 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Most people from the assorted traditions that observe Ostara, including powerful tribal rulers


Bah! Hate this touchy laptop!

Anywhoooo... they were illiterate and depended on oral traditions for their spiritual guidance. Much of the lore was written by the few educated folks of the time much, much later. Those educated folks tended to be Christian and there's no doubt in my mind that they did put a Christian "flavor" over much of the lore. Of course you're not going to find written lore before a certain time period about Eostre - or most other of the old deities - but you will find stone carvings, ritual tools and other evidence going back much, much earlier. She was definitely a big player in the old faith system, just how accurate she was depicted by the Christian (and occasional Muslim) scholars is debatable, though.
 
2013-02-15 01:25:01 PM  
Had a boss who would dump big projects on me on Friday with Monday morning deadlines.  When I complained, he grinned and said,

"There's 48 hours in a weekend, enough to get a week's worth of work done and still have time to relax."

That actually did help me develop the "work ethic" talking point for later interviews.  It was the only complaint I had about him.
 
2013-02-15 01:27:58 PM  

Evil Mackerel: ArkAngel: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

But are there feats of strength?

Yes, it's who can stand the stench of Petrulli the longest.


Who is Petrulli and why does s/he smell so bad?
 
2013-02-15 01:28:33 PM  
Heh I'm glad I had my snark art-war with the class Wiccan when the world was still open slightly bad-natured fun.

(Hey, she started it!)
 
2013-02-15 01:34:09 PM  
All these comments and no Walken?  You guys are slipping.

"I've got an all-denominational calendar over my bunk, Joel, don't you try that shiat with me again!"
 
2013-02-15 01:40:51 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Most people from the assorted traditions that observe Ostara, including powerful tribal rulers

Bah! Hate this touchy laptop!

Anywhoooo... they were illiterate and depended on oral traditions for their spiritual guidance. Much of the lore was written by the few educated folks of the time much, much later. Those educated folks tended to be Christian and there's no doubt in my mind that they did put a Christian "flavor" over much of the lore. Of course you're not going to find written lore before a certain time period about Eostre - or most other of the old deities - but you will find stone carvings, ritual tools and other evidence going back much, much earlier. She was definitely a big player in the old faith system, just how accurate she was depicted by the Christian (and occasional Muslim) scholars is debatable, though.


Oral traditions are better anyways. Crazy shiat happens when you write things down!

*sarcasm*
 
2013-02-15 01:42:49 PM  

not_an_indigo: TheBigJerk: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

shiat, the black magic orgies are the best part.

/predictable joke

Wicca does have the advantage of having a god that is older than christianity's god, while being FAR more up-to-date in terms of religion's role in modern society.

What?

Wicca is less than a century old.


Exactly.  Current practices are up-to-date.  And since they are a "resurrected" religion they have gods and faith that dates back to long, LONG before the Jews came on the scene and decided their tribal god was the only real god and their people were the only real people.
 
2013-02-15 01:47:55 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Had a boss who would dump big projects on me on Friday with Monday morning deadlines.  When I complained, he grinned and said,

"There's 48 hours in a weekend, enough to get a week's worth of work done and still have time to relax."

That actually did help me develop the "work ethic" talking point for later interviews.  It was the only complaint I had about him.


As long as that boss let you cook your week's meals, do laundry, cut your lawn, go grocery shopping, see your kid's game, go to weekend religious service, visit the parents, etc. during normal business hours, then that's a fair argument he made.  Otherwise, 4 hours a sleep a night and 20 hours of straight work a day is rough.

Your boss and people like him are what's wrong with this world.  Perhaps that's why, in olden days, there were so many minor holidays (saints' days, etc.), and restrictions on work during them.
 
2013-02-15 01:48:15 PM  

ArkAngel: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

But are there feats of strength?


All the people who said no to this have obviously never had the ordeal of trying to help carry a maypole being ridden by the May Queen, especially with the size of some of the May Queen "maidens" out there.
 
2013-02-15 01:51:16 PM  
Or the Feast of Alvis.

/It's not a hootenanny.  It's an extravaganza!
 
2013-02-15 01:53:53 PM  

TheBigJerk: not_an_indigo: TheBigJerk: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

shiat, the black magic orgies are the best part.

/predictable joke

Wicca does have the advantage of having a god that is older than christianity's god, while being FAR more up-to-date in terms of religion's role in modern society.

What?

Wicca is less than a century old.

Exactly.  Current practices are up-to-date.  And since they are a "resurrected" religion they have gods and faith that dates back to long, LONG before the Jews came on the scene and decided their tribal god was the only real god and their people were the only real people.


Actually, the Hebrews had two gods, the one we know now, and his wife.
 
2013-02-15 01:54:33 PM  
Wicca is not a Religion.
 
2013-02-15 01:55:33 PM  
Somacandra:
Point of Order: Wicca is generally duotheistic--with a God and Goddess. There may also be attention to various nature spirits and ancestors depending on the sect.

I respectfully disagree. While it is true that the outward expression of Wicca appears duotheistic, most Wiccans accept a single divinity that manifests in multiple ways, both within the self and outside the self. I would say that the best discreption of the Wiccan cosmology is panentheism. Think of the single God of the Christian church, that manifests in three Persons, The Father; The Son; and The Holy Spirit, but instead of three Persons the Wiccan cosmology holds that there are infinate manifestations of the God, including figures which would traditionally be termed "gods" and "goddesses" (including the gods of antiquity) and also including each and every person, plant rock and animal.

You will find Wiccans with a duotheistic, polytheistic, or even monotheistic cosmology, as there is no orthodoxy council for Wicca, but you will find few long-time Wiccans, especially initiated Wiccan clergy, who do not accept the panentheistic nature of Deity.
 
2013-02-15 02:01:18 PM  

CygnusDarius: TheBigJerk: not_an_indigo: TheBigJerk: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

shiat, the black magic orgies are the best part.

/predictable joke

Wicca does have the advantage of having a god that is older than christianity's god, while being FAR more up-to-date in terms of religion's role in modern society.

What?

Wicca is less than a century old.

Exactly.  Current practices are up-to-date.  And since they are a "resurrected" religion they have gods and faith that dates back to long, LONG before the Jews came on the scene and decided their tribal god was the only real god and their people were the only real people.

Actually, the Hebrews had two gods, the one we know now, and his wife.


In the Zohar (the main source of the Kabbalah tradition), one of the "feminine" aspects of God is the Shekhinah, and it is essentially God's presence on earth and the aspect that is "with" Israel (the people), depending on whether they are behaving at the time.

The Tree of Life is a way to show the various aspects of God's "personality" and how different "levels" reveal themselves to the world, but they are viewed as being just individual aspects of a single "entity."

/ much more complicated than that
 
2013-02-15 02:02:52 PM  

Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.


I find that a bit of a let down from the PR
 
2013-02-15 02:03:35 PM  

letrole: Wicca is not a Religion.


sure it is.
 
2013-02-15 02:04:13 PM  

TheBigJerk: not_an_indigo: TheBigJerk: Weaver95: ya know...I kinda like the pagans.  every time I go to one of their events there's good food and decent-to-awesome beer.  And there's almost never any black magic orgies.

shiat, the black magic orgies are the best part.

/predictable joke

Wicca does have the advantage of having a god that is older than christianity's god, while being FAR more up-to-date in terms of religion's role in modern society.

What?

Wicca is less than a century old.

Exactly.  Current practices are up-to-date.  And since they are a "resurrected" religion they have gods and faith that dates back to long, LONG before the Jews came on the scene and decided their tribal god was the only real god and their people were the only real people.


Wicca as a religion was developed in the late 40s from a mixture of a number of traditions. The term has been co-opted by anyone who wants to practice something nature-based and non-monotheistic. Wiccans honor many, MANY different gods/goddesses and pantheons. Dualism is the general rule. Wicca does NOT have A god, but Wiccans worship and/or honor whomever they choose.

///traditional Wiccan priestess, btw...
 
2013-02-15 02:04:45 PM  
Who cares, it's not any more fake than Jesus day and sky wizard day. The story should read: "people that believe in bullshiat convinced the bullshiat other ppl believe in is more bullshiat than their own bullshiat."
 
2013-02-15 02:06:12 PM  
Tammy Edwards, radio host of the nationally syndicated "Tammy Bruce Show" and Fox News contributor, said she found the guide to be indicative of an unbecoming societal shift. "It almost seems as though we're looking for excuses for people to not have to take their commitments seriously," Edwards told FoxNews.com. "It's beyond political correctness; it's almost like an excuse to do nothing. It's like societal nihilism, where nothing matters."

Look at it this way, honey, it's just another good reason to quit your job in order to spend all your time stocking your Doomsday bunker.
 
2013-02-15 02:12:31 PM  
letrole: Wicca is not a Religion.

Weaver95: sure it is.

Not really.

At best, it's a parody religion like the church of the subgenius.

To himself, every follower knows it to be bogus, but assumes that other followers do indeed take it to be real and therefore they all play along.
 
2013-02-15 02:22:19 PM  

letrole: letrole: Wicca is not a Religion.

Weaver95: sure it is.

Not really.

At best, it's a parody religion like the church of the subgenius.

To himself, every follower knows it to be bogus, but assumes that other followers do indeed take it to be real and therefore they all play along.


this is one of those things you tell yourself to make yourself feel better, isn't it?
 
2013-02-15 02:24:02 PM  

Weaver95: letrole: letrole: Wicca is not a Religion.

Weaver95: sure it is.

Not really.

At best, it's a parody religion like the church of the subgenius.

To himself, every follower knows it to be bogus, but assumes that other followers do indeed take it to be real and therefore they all play along.

this is one of those things you tell yourself to make yourself feel better, isn't it?


Letroll has a lot of theories about what other people's private motivations are.
 
2013-02-15 02:25:40 PM  

letrole: Wicca is not a Religion.


And yet you claim Atheism is.
 
2013-02-15 02:31:04 PM  

Weaver95: letrole: letrole: Wicca is not a Religion.

Weaver95: sure it is.

Not really.

At best, it's a parody religion like the church of the subgenius.

To himself, every follower knows it to be bogus, but assumes that other followers do indeed take it to be real and therefore they all play along.

this is one of those things you tell yourself to make yourself feel better, isn't it?


Umm, not to rain on anyone's parade, but his Fark name is letrole.
 
2013-02-15 02:36:25 PM  
CygnusDarius:

Umm, not to rain on anyone's parade, but his Fark name is letrole.

yes, but I drank a LOT of coffee very recently.
 
2013-02-15 02:43:42 PM  

Skwach: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Most people from the assorted traditions that observe Ostara, including powerful tribal rulers

Bah! Hate this touchy laptop!

Anywhoooo... they were illiterate and depended on oral traditions for their spiritual guidance. Much of the lore was written by the few educated folks of the time much, much later. Those educated folks tended to be Christian and there's no doubt in my mind that they did put a Christian "flavor" over much of the lore. Of course you're not going to find written lore before a certain time period about Eostre - or most other of the old deities - but you will find stone carvings, ritual tools and other evidence going back much, much earlier. She was definitely a big player in the old faith system, just how accurate she was depicted by the Christian (and occasional Muslim) scholars is debatable, though.

Oral traditions are better anyways. Crazy shiat happens when you write things down!

*sarcasm*


Actually, absolutely insane stuff happens when you write stuff down and rely on that. Some farktard is going to rail against anything that doesn't quite fit in with the "written word of GAWD", which some other farktard told them is unchanging and infallible. This leaves very little room for a greater understanding of the world around you if it doesn't fully agree with written lore, and it leaves very little room for spiritual growth outside the confines of that written lore. Those things - understanding of the world around you to the best of your ability and spiritual growth - are kind of important. Also, when things are written down in a "holy" book viewed as the infallible word of any deity, it is always going to be interpreted in different ways by different people - which is fine, everyone's spiritual path is different. What isn't fine is babbling about how someone isn't a "REAL" whatever because they believe stuff or do stuff not mentioned in said holy book or writings or they disagree with the interpretations of another.

Besides all that, how in Lady Hel's blessed name is an illiterate supposed to write anything down? That's why when studying any of the old faiths, you pay attention to all of the lore, including regional lore - regional deities are common in polytheistic faiths, and alliances between regional deity and human would change when they moved, even if the base faith was the same. You probably wouldn't give offerings to Skadi and expect her blessing and protection if you lived in the desert, after all.* You most certainly would if you lived in the mountains. You would get a lot of clues about who/what the people of the region viewed as important based on archaeological evidence (among other things) in addition to the spoken lore. So archaeological evidence and the writings of travelers, such as diplomats and other educated folks, are of more than a little importance when studying the older faiths. They just have to be viewed through the lens of the "written, infallible word of GAWD" if the writers are from a faith with written lore as the only thing viewed as having value, especially if their archaeological research and academic research usually favors 'proving' their own written lore as the only correct interpretation of the world and human spirituality rather than using their research to grow and evolve their faith.


*Regional deities can be someone's Fulltrui as well, regardless of the region the person is living. They would most likely honor the regional deities and wights as well, just because they lived on their turf.
 
2013-02-15 02:54:22 PM  

Nuc_E: As a graduate of 2 of the 4 campuses, sure, don't care what they do regarding that.

However, Mizzou can Fark off 1) for joining the college athletics money grab and jetting to the SEC for a better "cultural" fit.  2)  For undermining my successful graduate program and pulling some shady shiat in the process.


The SEC is awesome- but then again I don't give two shiats about basketball. And it sucks not playing kansas anymore... there will be more opportunities for the campus to expand thanks to financial bloom though.

UMKC on the other hand tried to spend $500, 000 to change their name to ukc so we could be confused with kansas instead of mizzou... we need some new leadership over here...
 
2013-02-15 02:56:14 PM  
I've had this problem with my most holiest of days - November 13th.  Even after I explain that on November thirteenth, Felix Unger was asked to remove himself from his place of residence.

/That request came from his wife.
 
2013-02-15 02:57:06 PM  
...or days that end in "y".
 
2013-02-15 02:57:10 PM  

Weaver95: CygnusDarius:

Umm, not to rain on anyone's parade, but his Fark name is letrole.

yes, but I drank a LOT of coffee very recently.


So, drinkingcoffeeIdrinkcoffeedrinkingcoffeeeveryday?.
 
2013-02-15 03:14:22 PM  
UM/MU HQ Boone County (air drop supplies - a Blue County in a Sea of Red - education level might have something to do with it).  Plenty of silliness (Wiccan Lesbian Organic farm, etc. - County spent 30K back in the `90's, to hire a Deputy to hunt down Satanists - turned up some skulls on a tree stump at some hippie truck farm, and raided an anthropology project setup by a local HS - Woodland Native campsite recreation).

FTFA: Tammy Edwards, radio host of the nationally syndicated "Tammy Bruce Show" and Fox News contributor, said she found the guide to be indicative of an unbecoming societal shift. "It almost seems as though we're looking for excuses for people to not have to take their commitments seriously," Edwards told FoxNews.com. "It's beyond political correctness; it's almost like an excuse to do nothing. It's like societal nihilism, where nothing matters."

Well, let's review the Constitutional Amendment writing (passed by 7-1 margin - during 2012 primaries - nothing but a Republican bloodbath with all the bible beaters drawn out so's to leave the faithful home in November General - Boone County (few students in August - went 60-40 for) was closer to 1:1 (not bad).

 FTFAmendment:

that no student shall be compelled to perform or participate in academic assignments or educational presentations that violate his or her religious beliefs

AND: but this section shall not be construed to expand the rights of prisoners in state or local custody beyond those afforded by the laws of the United States, excuse acts of licentiousness, nor to justify practices inconsistent with the good order, peace or safety of the state, or with the rights of others.

That means don't mention the FSM - keep your knees bloody for the baby jesus.
 
2013-02-15 03:14:38 PM  
FTFA: "although some critics say listing every holiday associated with fringe belief systems is a bit much."

Only person questioning this move in the story? Some Fox News A-hole. Screw you, Fox. Your imaginary sky wizard is no better than anybody else's.
 
2013-02-15 03:27:41 PM  

jshine: ...or days that end in "y".


I take back my earlier endorsement and endorse this instead.
 
2013-02-15 03:32:38 PM  

Skwach: Now I Is!: cgraves67: Then for the sake of equality, I want no homework on any saint feast days!

That would be easy all 8 pagan holidays are mirrored by catholic saint's days!


Um. . . I think it's the other way around.
Pretty sure the catholics co-opted all the again holidays, starting with christmas and easter.


FTFM
 
2013-02-15 03:32:43 PM  
wiccan and pagan holidays? wow thats a lot of days no homework. full moon new moon yule imbolc ostara beltane samhain mabon litha lughnasadh

thats approx 36 holidays right there and thats just wicca and not even a complete list
 
2013-02-15 03:33:53 PM  
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog are actually old English common names for herbs.  I found a list of them here:http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070920214048AAeoHoJ
 
2013-02-15 03:34:03 PM  
This delicious bit of tolerance comes to you from the same school whose KOMU student journihilists aren't permitted to wear American flag lapel pins.  Wouldn't want to give off the impression of bias, no sirree.


beinglatino.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-15 03:35:34 PM  

ThreeFootSmurf: wiccan and pagan holidays? wow thats a lot of days no homework. full moon new moon yule imbolc ostara beltane samhain mabon litha lughnasadh

thats approx 36 holidays right there and thats just wicca and not even a complete list


and after reading this i see they are only covering the main 8 and not the full and new moons. lol
 
2013-02-15 03:36:36 PM  
MU's response here
 
2013-02-15 03:43:26 PM  
Good for the school.  I've met few groups of people on this earth that want to be oppressed more than the various neo-pagans.  The school should offer them chapel space and send them little chocolates for high holidays.
 
2013-02-15 03:44:23 PM  

Stinkyy: This delicious bit of tolerance comes to you from the same school whose KOMU student journihilists aren't permitted to wear American flag lapel pins.  Wouldn't want to give off the impression of bias, no sirree.


Jingoism has no place in news. Only in Fox "News."
 
2013-02-15 03:49:07 PM  

maus: MU's response here


"'The Fox News story was really incorrect,' MU spokeswoman Mary Jo Banken said."

But was it "fair and balanced"?
 
2013-02-15 03:49:47 PM  

cgraves67: Then for the sake of equality, I want no homework on any saint feast days!



Plus the traditional killing of the French UPON SAINT CRISPIN'S DAY!
 
2013-02-15 03:57:03 PM  

bunner: Somacandra: Point of Order: Wicca is generally duotheistic--with a God and Goddess. There may also be attention to various nature spirits and ancestors depending on the sect.

See that word?  That means that your one true way has sh*t the bed, jumped the shark and become a joke.  Works on any belief system.


In Wicca as in Valdemar: There is no One True Way.
 
2013-02-15 04:26:53 PM  

Stinkyy: This delicious bit of tolerance comes to you from the same school whose KOMU student journihilists aren't permitted to wear American flag lapel pins.  Wouldn't want to give off the impression of bias, no sirree.


[beinglatino.files.wordpress.com image 319x318]


The oppressed and disenfranchised never want equality or acceptance.  They want to wear the  oppressor's hat.  they want their turn as the prime poobah.  They want the whip in  THEIR hands.  Or, at the very least, endless entitlement.  The pinâta du jour is heterosexual Christian Caucasians.  And the rallying cry is "it's OUR turn so F*CK YOU!".  The game never changes and the results are usually a prologue to more stuff falling apart.  I don't take it personally but I'll be a dirty sonofab*tch if I'm gonna do the "oh noes!" dance about it.   :  ) Let the whiners whine about whatever world leader pretend they think will give them an edge this week.  History will eat us all.  Wake me up when we start learning from this simple fact.
 
2013-02-15 04:37:56 PM  

bunner: Stinkyy: This delicious bit of tolerance comes to you from the same school whose KOMU student journihilists aren't permitted to wear American flag lapel pins.  Wouldn't want to give off the impression of bias, no sirree.


[beinglatino.files.wordpress.com image 319x318]

The oppressed and disenfranchised never want equality or acceptance.  They want to wear the  oppressor's hat.  they want their turn as the prime poobah.  They want the whip in  THEIR hands.  Or, at the very least, endless entitlement.  The pinâta du jour is heterosexual Christian Caucasians.  And the rallying cry is "it's OUR turn so F*CK YOU!".  The game never changes and the results are usually a prologue to more stuff falling apart.  I don't take it personally but I'll be a dirty sonofab*tch if I'm gonna do the "oh noes!" dance about it.   :  ) Let the whiners whine about whatever world leader pretend they think will give them an edge this week.  History will eat us all.  Wake me up when we start learning from this simple fact.


I don't begrudge them this. I just wish they'd be honest about it instead of pretending that they're oh so pious and noble.
 
2013-02-15 05:07:41 PM  
I don't see a problem with this.  They already close the schools for Christmas, why not do it for all the other Pagan holidays?
 
2013-02-15 05:57:29 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Skwach: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Real Women Drink Akvavit:

Actually, absolutely insane stuff happens when you write stuff down and rely on that. Some farktard is going to rail against anything that doesn't quite fit in with the "written word of GAWD", which some other farktard told them is unchanging and infallible. This leaves very little room for a greater understanding of the world around you if it doesn't fully agree with written lore, and it leaves very little room for spiritual growth outside the confines of that written lore. . .


I really hadn't thought about it that way. Maintaining an oral mythology would be more conducive to an ongoing conversation about the nature of reality and the human condition rather than an institutionalization of thought and ritual..

The problem is, what if pagans from back in the day totally new how to deal with todays problems, but they didn't write it down? But I guess we're having the opposite problem; christians and muslims today insisting that those people back in the day totally knew how to deal with today's problems.

I guess my question is: how do we find that balance between advancing the conversation while keeping it inclusive and also remembering where we've been?
 
2013-02-15 06:59:53 PM  
And the problem with oral tradition is the telephone game.  Europeans and their descendants took over the world with plows, ships, linear print and electricity.  Actually, those are the last four killer apps in order.  Something that says the same thing the same way as it did the day it was thought up and put to paper is an astounding tool kit.
 
2013-02-15 07:09:39 PM  
The conversation, however, has never been inclusive.  There's always the guild cloak pose and the people who can get the most people living in the place where they get to wear it in exchange for the benefits that their technology offers, and get them to use their money and live by their rules, are set.  Set.  And them any anybody they let into the tree house will never have to do anything but referee, take their cut and go home.  Welcome to organized society.  The only thing that changes is the technology and resources,  and lemme tell ya, linear print did to oral tradition what the Model T did to the buggy whip.
 
2013-02-15 07:29:30 PM  

Skwach: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Skwach: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Real Women Drink Akvavit:

Actually, absolutely insane stuff happens when you write stuff down and rely on that. Some farktard is going to rail against anything that doesn't quite fit in with the "written word of GAWD", which some other farktard told them is unchanging and infallible. This leaves very little room for a greater understanding of the world around you if it doesn't fully agree with written lore, and it leaves very little room for spiritual growth outside the confines of that written lore. . .

I really hadn't thought about it that way. Maintaining an oral mythology would be more conducive to an ongoing conversation about the nature of reality and the human condition rather than an institutionalization of thought and ritual..

The problem is, what if pagans from back in the day totally new how to deal with todays problems, but they didn't write it down? But I guess we're having the opposite problem; christians and muslims today insisting that those people back in the day totally knew how to deal with today's problems.

I guess my question is: how do we find that balance between advancing the conversation while keeping it inclusive and also remembering where we've been?


That's a very good question and one I really don't have the answer to myself. If I did, I'd totally write a book about it and then take a bunch of Farkers out to a gastropub for drinks and nibbles with the proceeds. Some people have their feet so firmly planted in the "my way is the ONLY right way (cuz my preacher/imam said so)" realm I have no doubt they're not interested in anything remotely related to inclusion, to say the least. I have mixed feelings about that. BIG TIME mixed feelings.
 
2013-02-15 07:33:09 PM  
But that's the problem in inclusiveness.  If you tailor a belief system to fit the personal proclivities and certainties of any schmo who walks in the door, you don't have a belief system.  You have a very desperate looking social club that never serves the same dish twice.
 
2013-02-15 07:39:30 PM  

bunner: And the problem with oral tradition is the telephone game.  Europeans and their descendants took over the world with plows, ships, linear print and electricity.  Actually, those are the last four killer apps in order.  Something that says the same thing the same way as it did the day it was thought up and put to paper is an astounding tool kit.


bunner: The conversation, however, has never been inclusive.  There's always the guild cloak pose and the people who can get the most people living in the place where they get to wear it in exchange for the benefits that their technology offers, and get them to use their money and live by their rules, are set.  Set.  And them any anybody they let into the tree house will never have to do anything but referee, take their cut and go home.  Welcome to organized society.  The only thing that changes is the technology and resources,  and lemme tell ya, linear print did to oral tradition what the Model T did to the buggy whip.


I think your analogy of writing as a Model T is perfect for things such as math and science, various record keeping, and many others things of which there is no end.

However, as far as religion goes, I think its best to keep it oral. Old outdated views of gender roles, human depravity/original sin, unquestionable clergy, and religious crusades should be kept in the past where they belong.
 
2013-02-15 07:44:49 PM  

Skwach: However, as far as religion goes, I think its best to keep it oral. Old outdated views of gender roles, human depravity/original sin, unquestionable clergy, and religious crusades should be kept in the past where they belong.


And that probably wont happen because those are, for better or nay, the very pillars of belief system infrastructure.  And the reasons  that many of those things are now viewed as quite arcane and obsolete came about from the very technologies that affected our  modes of living and our ability to explain the world around us.  And those largely came about from linear print and the foundations for actually advancing those technologies that it offers.
 
2013-02-15 08:06:39 PM  
The modern world as we know it is sculpted in ink and powered by alternating current and if you burn all the books and documents  and shut the power off, it's the 9th c. again.  And that's how books got to be "holy".  Because, unlike grand Exalted Shaman Larry, they say the same thing the same way this week as they did last week.  How you live shapes your culture and so do the mechanics of it's processes.  This is why the wealthy keep education expensive and ostensibly elite and yet openly malleable to whatever this month's Einstein Jr. declares and exclusive and oppressive and must go!  And they can't WAIT to accommodate him.  As long as the check clears.
 
2013-02-15 08:14:40 PM  
Civilization exists because of a group of people who saw this sh*t, tried that sh*t, tested some other sh*t and then wrote down what happened.  The rest is ooga booga and what's for dinner.
 
2013-02-15 08:14:51 PM  

bunner: Skwach: However, as far as religion goes, I think its best to keep it oral. Old outdated views of gender roles, human depravity/original sin, unquestionable clergy, and religious crusades should be kept in the past where they belong.

And that probably wont happen because those are, for better or nay, the very pillars of the Abrahamic belief system infrastructure.  And the reasons  that many of those things are now viewed as quite arcane and obsolete came about from the very technologies that affected our  modes of living and our ability to explain the world around us.  And those largely came about from linear print and the foundations for actually advancing those technologies that it offers.


There ya go! All fixxored.

bunner: But that's the problem in inclusiveness.  If you tailor a belief system to fit the personal proclivities and certainties of any schmo who walks in the door, you don't have a belief system.  You have a very desperate looking social club that never serves the same dish twice.


That's part of why I have such mixed feelings. You need commonalities, but to what extent? Especially when you keep in mind that spirituality is deeply personal and spiritual growth, experiences and the path one takes will be very different between individuals - even those within the same base faith - no matter what. If the goal is to control behaviors and thinking, it's going to be more rigid. If the goal is spiritual growth through exploration and at least an attempt at understanding, you're going to be much more flexible with who you accept as "one of us" and who is one of the "others" whose goal is social control. This, of course, raises the question, should any faith path even have an end goal defined by that faith system? I feel that would deny the very obvious fact that spirituality is so deeply personal if any faith path expects all to believe and feel the same thing. It simply isn't possible without destroying (or inhibiting) the personal spiritual growth most religious types are seeking in the first place.
 
2013-02-15 08:21:20 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: There ya go! All fixxored.


Yes, Lord knows no tribe of illiterates ever pillories somebody for stealing a yak or marrying outside of the tribe.

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Especially when you keep in mind that spirituality is deeply personal and spiritual growth, experiences and the path one takes will be very different between individuals


I've got a funny feeling that a great deal of that notion is more based on vanity and tailoring your "growth experience" to what you already hold to be that which is spiritual.  I may be mistaken.

Real Women Drink Akvavit: If the goal is spiritual growth through exploration and at least an attempt at understanding, you're going to be much more flexible


and of course, if the goal is to keep people from falling down the same hole, over and over, in the name of spirituality, because you already know what's at the bottom, it may be that a bit of structure is a lot more useful than not.

Real Women Drink Akvavit: I feel that would deny the very obvious fact that spirituality is so deeply personal if any faith path expects all to believe and feel the same thing. It simply isn't possible without destroying (or inhibiting) the personal spiritual growth most religious types are seeking in the first place.


And I feel, personally, that the very notion that God only talks to ME.  Whether you are frocked in the raiments or some schmuck in a Judas Priest T-shirt, is sort of the problem.
 
2013-02-15 08:30:00 PM  

bunner: Somacandra: Point of Order: Wicca is generally duotheistic--with a God and Goddess. There may also be attention to various nature spirits and ancestors depending on the sect.

See that word?  That means that your one true way has sh*t the bed, jumped the shark and become a joke.  Works on any belief system.


Here's the thing, Wicca, like most other pagan religions, doesn't claim to be the "one true way".  Only the one that works best for that particular person.
 
2013-02-15 08:33:50 PM  

roadmarks: Here's the thing, Wicca, like most other pagan religions, doesn't claim to be the "one true way".  Only the one that works best for that particular person.


And I'm sort of fine with that, but I can't help but think it sounds more like a car sales manual than a religion.
 
2013-02-15 08:42:31 PM  

bunner: roadmarks: Here's the thing, Wicca, like most other pagan religions, doesn't claim to be the "one true way".  Only the one that works best for that particular person.

And I'm sort of fine with that, but I can't help but think it sounds more like a car sales manual than a religion.


Funny kind of sales manual - because no one is selling it.

If one doesn't believe in eternal damnation for picking the wrong religion, and one's deities never claim or demand exclusivity, there is very little need, or rationalization for proselytizing.  My religion works for me - it may or may not be the right choice for you.  Since I don't believe there is a hell, there are no negative consequences for you not believing the same things I do.  My gods were perfectly capable of getting my attention, I assume that if they want yours, they will reach out to you themselves.

Either way, your religious choices are yours and yours alone to make.
 
2013-02-15 09:06:03 PM  

bunner: Real Women Drink Akvavit: There ya go! All fixxored.

Yes, Lord knows no tribe of illiterates ever pillories somebody for stealing a yak or marrying outside of the tribe.

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Especially when you keep in mind that spirituality is deeply personal and spiritual growth, experiences and the path one takes will be very different between individuals

I've got a funny feeling that a great deal of that notion is more based on vanity and tailoring your "growth experience" to what you already hold to be that which is spiritual.  I may be mistaken.

Real Women Drink Akvavit: If the goal is spiritual growth through exploration and at least an attempt at understanding, you're going to be much more flexible

and of course, if the goal is to keep people from falling down the same hole, over and over, in the name of spirituality, because you already know what's at the bottom, it may be that a bit of structure is a lot more useful than not.Real Women Drink Akvavit: I feel that would deny the very obvious fact that spirituality is so deeply personal if any faith path expects all to believe and feel the same thing. It simply isn't possible without destroying (or inhibiting) the personal spiritual growth most religious types are seeking in the first place.

And I feel, personally, that the very notion that God only talks to ME.  Whether you are frocked in the raiments or some schmuck in a Judas Priest T-shirt, is sort of the problem.


I'm sure some people of the old faiths did do nasty things in the name of faith, but things like wholesale slaughter/punishments had nothing to do with religion at all when it comes to my ancestors. We have no concept of "sin" at all (there are honorable and dishonorable behaviors and how behaviors are viewed is situational) and we are also not our naughty bits, we are defined by our abilities and our deeds, so there are no set gender roles, either.

I also was not raised Heathen and had no preconceived notions, so it's not that I'm vain or walked toward what I already viewed as spiritual at all. I was completely unfamiliar with any of the Germanic Heathen paths when I started studying them. I've stayed with them as they've helped me the most and feel more natural and true to me than any other path I've studied - or tried to as some faith paths don't like people who ask questions. We do. We're also usually the ones asking questions - constantly. Sometimes we get the answer, sometimes nobody knows. That's fine, too.

I don't view shifting your views as falling down a hole, let alone the same hole over and over. While some structure is helpful, too much and you lose the chance for further spiritual exploration because with highly structured environments come boundaries I do not feel have any place in spirituality. I'm also not sure if any god or goddess talks to anyone at all, let alone "just to me". I'm a polytheist, but I'm also agnostic.

Finally, who the fark would be caught in a Judus Priest t-shirt? They're not even metal in my view. They're hard rock. Ick.
 
2013-02-15 09:15:14 PM  
And I have no pony in this show.  Of course personal choices are personal.  But the motivations to share them with others is also in our nature.  I tend to avoid things that have a great bit of repetitive ritual and group reinforcement catechisms.  I never see the results changing things for the better.  As far as the "clever, classless and free", blithe spirit approach, well... John Lennon nailed that for me.  I like hard rock.  I like metal.  I also like Beethoven, Abba, the Carpenters, Bob Marley and Brad Paisley and  Mötörhead.   Genres sort of make my ass hurt.
 
2013-02-15 09:17:56 PM  
This is the kind of crap that happens in (stereotypically) non-liberal states whose (stereotypically) malinformed (stereotypically) conservative members then (stereotypically) blame on Northeastern liberals.
 
2013-02-15 09:18:31 PM  
--- where this would probably never happen
 
2013-02-15 09:24:04 PM  
It's like "alternative" music.  Alternative to what?  You baseline your tastes, belief system or governance on being something that something else that,  in your estimation, yours isn't?  That's not an alternative.  It's reactionary.  Alternative music always really gets me.  You know what the alternative to music is?  No music.
 
2013-02-15 09:34:26 PM  
This story gets better.

Needless to say, the Fox News article took certain liberties with the truth.  The diversity guide was just an information source talking about different cultures' holidays and suggested that faculty take that into account when scheduling.  A Junior Brietbart in the School of Journalism wrote a story about it for a right-wing website and then Fox News stole it and rewrote it without attribution.

Link to Columbia Missourian with statements from Mizzou
Original story (The College Fix)
 
2013-02-15 10:05:28 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: I don't view shifting your views as falling down a hole, let alone the same hole over and over.


My word, dear.  Who would?
 
2013-02-15 10:37:42 PM  

Mentat: This story gets better.

Needless to say, the Fox News article took certain liberties with the truth.  The diversity guide was just an information source talking about different cultures' holidays and suggested that faculty take that into account when scheduling.  A Junior Brietbart in the School of Journalism wrote a story about it for a right-wing website and then Fox News stole it and rewrote it without attribution.

Link to Columbia Missourian with statements from Mizzou
Original story (The College Fix)


Thanks for posting the link to the original story. I'm not sure which part of the line "These statistics beg the question: why put both Christianity and Wiccans in equipollency?" I should be more disturbed by. Both spiritual viewpoints are equally valid and I find it disturbing that Christopher White person fails to realize that. However, they also misused "begs the question", which annoys me. I'm a chef, for pity's sake, and even I know that phrase doesn't mean what it's being used to mean.

Ah, well. The English language changes all the time, and I guess this is one I'm going to have to get used to hearing.

bunner: Real Women Drink Akvavit: I don't view shifting your views as falling down a hole, let alone the same hole over and over.

My word, dear.  Who would?


Plenty of people would and do. They just refer to it as "flip flopping" or "being indecisive". I guess part of it depends on if you view change as a positive thing or a negative thing.
 
2013-02-15 11:14:20 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: I guess part of it depends on if you view change as a positive thing or a negative thing.


I view change as the essence of life.  You're either growing or riding the crest of the wave, or dying.  However, as to to it's attributes, at the end of the day, in this context, it's an option.  Decisions mean results.  Change in and of itself is neither, IMHO.  Results can be either.
 
2013-02-15 11:45:20 PM  

Ezekiel Rage: Stinkyy: This delicious bit of tolerance comes to you from the same school whose KOMU student journihilists aren't permitted to wear American flag lapel pins.  Wouldn't want to give off the impression of bias, no sirree.

Jingoism has no place in news. Only in Fox "News."


Wow, a kid wanted to wear a little American flag pin, you equate that to "jingoism"?  Or do you mean the MU article appearing on Fox News, or both?  If any one word has been most malappropriated by the worst groupthinkers of the FarkLib brigade, it is "jingoism".  That word is a favorite of pseudointellectuals and failed reporters.  Congratulations - not only do you instantly self-identify as a probable OWS who not only missed out on positive socialization but the fool who wears his negative bias as a badge.  In other words, the same kind of hypocrite that takes but never gives, feels that his existence and "special" purpose must be the pinnacle of all preceding forebears,  and perhaps as the sign of ultimate stupidity, revels in actually hoping for civilization to fail to prove a worthless point.  Sorry you hate your country so much to have to break out your little $0.50 word and spite a whole class of individuals who feel gratitude for its gifts.
 
2013-02-16 01:35:05 AM  
M-I-Z! (anyone?)

/class of '91
/in late because I'm in Vietnam
 
2013-02-16 11:26:47 AM  

letrole: Wicca is not a Religion. It is the plain truth of the universe.


Fixed!
 
2013-02-16 12:11:29 PM  

Anokha: M-I-Z! (anyone?)

/class of '91
/in late because I'm in Vietnam


Z-O-U!

/graduated from the journalism school in 2004.

Stinkyy: Ezekiel Rage: Stinkyy: String of self-important words


A broadcaster wearing a flag pin when the country is contemplating entering a war is wholly inappropriate. Sorry I made you reach for your copy of Webster's, you miserable turd. *ignore*
 
2013-02-17 12:26:40 AM  

Anokha: M-I-Z! (anyone?)

/class of '91
/in late because I'm in Vietnam


Did you see my comment upthread?

Z-O-U for the nguyen
 
2013-02-18 02:12:57 PM  

Ezekiel Rage: Anokha: M-I-Z! (anyone?)

/class of '91
/in late because I'm in Vietnam

Z-O-U!

/graduated from the journalism school in 2004.

Stinkyy: Ezekiel Rage: Stinkyy: String of self-important words

A broadcaster wearing a flag pin when the country is contemplating entering a war is wholly inappropriate. Sorry I made you reach for your copy of Webster's, you miserable turd. *ignore*


Journalists ignoring truth to pursue their own slanted agenda?  Color me shocked, Che!  Way to drive home that Journalists' Creed, baby!  Didn't take very long to forget your ethics class, I guess.

/Go jingoism off a cliff, J-slum rat
 
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