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(CNN)   CNN Money decides to step into the spat between Tesla and the New York Times by driving the same Boston to D.C. route in the Model-S as the NYT's reviewer did. "With a full battery, there was no need -- none at all -- to nurse the car's battery"   (money.cnn.com) divider line 368
    More: Followup, Model S, cnnmoney, NYT, flatbed trucks, District of Columbia, New Jersey Turnpike  
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14358 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Feb 2013 at 7:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-15 10:00:01 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: I can't be quite as smug about "saving the planet."


You are really passionate about the freedom to live a destructive lifestyle aren't you?
 
2013-02-15 10:00:32 AM

gsiofa: RexTalionis: gsiofa: RexTalionis: gsiofa: reporter clearly took good notes (recordings?) of calls with Tesla reps where bad advice was given.

Where?

Where what? Where notes? Musk never refuted the reporter's quotes that were attributed to Tesla reps. Constant poor handling from Tesla helped create the problems on the test drive. Which, by the way, it wasn't even supposed to be a test drive, but rather a test of the charging system. Musk's silly public reaction is the only reason I (and probably many people) even heard of the story.

Where did he take these good notes or recordings? Because as far as I can tell, every time he had a failure, he just said "Tesla reps told me to only charge 1 hour even though the range says 32 miles and I had 51 miles to go" or "Tesla reps told me to sit in the car and blast the heat for half an hour because this will magically 'condition' my battery so I get more power."

In this article summing up the back and forth, the NYT reporter names "Tesla representatives Christina Ra and Ted Merendino" as providing the poor instructions that led to the premature end of the drive. My presumption is that the reporter's notes were strong enough so he could keep track of who said what, and attribute statements accordingly. If Tesla does not counter the statements from Ra and Merendino then it looks like a win for the reporter, in my opinion.


So, you're willing to make the assumption that Elon Musk fabricated his data, but you won't entertain the notion that Broder might've mislead on the content of the calls.
 
2013-02-15 10:02:41 AM

ringersol: gsiofa: "Having a hard time figuring out why people think the NYT reporter is lying, but do not think Elon Musk is lying "

Plenty of people are arguing about whether Musk's data supports his accusations.  Even without considering that it might be fake.
So it's not like people are just taking Musk at face value.

It just isn't getting as much attention because even *those* people aren't arguing that Broder's experience was reasonable.

Keep in mind that this CNN Money guy in TFA is not the first journalist to take a Tesla around the East Coast without a problem. Including another journalist at the NY Times.
And if six people take a given road trip in a given car, five have a blast and rate the car highly and one basically says the car's core technology is confusing and problematic and it doesn't even really work, who should we *expect* to be off?  It's certainly *possible* the outlier had a novel experience that exposed a problem.  But that would put him in a place where he has to back up his case.  And when he actually admits, right in his original piece, that he re-charged less and less every time he plugged in? You don't need Musk's data to laugh off Broder's critique of the car's range.


I get what you're saying, but it does seem there are many comments in this thread showing blanket support for Musk no matter what. He's a smart guy, and his businesses have done very interesting work, without question. I do also think that because of this many here do take his words "at face value", when we should be skeptical of what he has to say, too.
 
2013-02-15 10:03:25 AM

fluffy2097: Notabunny: As the price for all-electric cars drops, demand for charging stations will increase. My guess is that municipalities will then begin buying all-electric cars for their fleets. I think the infrastructure will grow quickly at that point.

Charging a Tesla S with the supercharging system requires 90Kw of power.

That's as much electricity as the average house uses in an entire year.

To charge your car.

If you think quick charging stations are going to stay cheap, or that our electrical grid can handle them without a 100% complete overhaul to double plant and transmission line capacity, you are insane.


Um, no.  Energy usage of a house is measured in terms of KwH (Kilowatt Hours) not Kw (Kilowatts).  You are attempting to compare apples and oranges.  You're missing the time component.
 
2013-02-15 10:03:41 AM

RexTalionis: gsiofa: RexTalionis: gsiofa: RexTalionis: gsiofa: reporter clearly took good notes (recordings?) of calls with Tesla reps where bad advice was given.

Where?

Where what? Where notes? Musk never refuted the reporter's quotes that were attributed to Tesla reps. Constant poor handling from Tesla helped create the problems on the test drive. Which, by the way, it wasn't even supposed to be a test drive, but rather a test of the charging system. Musk's silly public reaction is the only reason I (and probably many people) even heard of the story.

Where did he take these good notes or recordings? Because as far as I can tell, every time he had a failure, he just said "Tesla reps told me to only charge 1 hour even though the range says 32 miles and I had 51 miles to go" or "Tesla reps told me to sit in the car and blast the heat for half an hour because this will magically 'condition' my battery so I get more power."

In this article summing up the back and forth, the NYT reporter names "Tesla representatives Christina Ra and Ted Merendino" as providing the poor instructions that led to the premature end of the drive. My presumption is that the reporter's notes were strong enough so he could keep track of who said what, and attribute statements accordingly. If Tesla does not counter the statements from Ra and Merendino then it looks like a win for the reporter, in my opinion.

So, you're willing to make the assumption that Elon Musk fabricated his data, but you won't entertain the notion that Broder might've mislead on the content of the calls.


Again, I did not say he fabricated his data. I did ask if it could be independently verified, which is not an unreasonable thing to ask.
 
2013-02-15 10:04:55 AM

ringersol: It's certainly *possible* the outlier had a novel experience that exposed a problem.


The problem is that he is of the "Drive it on fumes" personality type.

You know that friend who always needs 5 bucks in gas money anytime you go anywhere with them because their tank is always empty?

That's Broder, and that's the problem he had.
 
2013-02-15 10:05:17 AM

fredklein: That's not the point.


So you really think that EVERYONE will change their battery everyday? How about maybe 10 people a day TOPS per station. 265 miles with charging overnight will cover (pulling number out of my ass here) atleast 90% of most peoples daily driving.


dittybopper: Also, electric cars have also been around for over 100 years.


Yeah but nobody really cared about electric cars in the past because gas was under $1 a gallon up until the late 90s making electric not really worth it when it only cost $15 to fill your car.  Now it costs $50 to fill your tank and electric has a lot more standing ground.
 
2013-02-15 10:05:21 AM

fluffy2097: gsiofa: Anyone know the temperature through the duration of the NYT reporter's drive, vs the temperature during the CNN Money reporter's drive, and what (if any) effect that would have?

Low of 14 (when he stopped for the night) vs 31.

Government keeps track of temperature records luckily, so if you don't believe me, go look it up.

However, many Teslas are sold in cold climates. It shouldn't be an issue like what he experienced.

Which means he did something (Like leave the cabin heater on 74 all night), or something in the Tesla did went wrong.


Not a "if you don't believe me" issue. It was a genuinely curious question.
 
2013-02-15 10:06:33 AM

maddermaxx: The thing is, all of those gas stations you go cost a lot of money too, but they weren't all set up in a few years, but over decades and more.


Gas stations require:
A tank to store the gas.
A pump to...pump the gas.

Battery swap stations require:
Heavy equipment to move heavy batteries around.
Lots and lots of storage space for lots and lots of heavy batteries.
Lots and lots of electrical supply to be able to charge the batteries.
Lots and lots of electricity to charge the batteries

Gas stations are CHEAP compared to Battery swap stations. Personally, I think the 'future' of cars lies not with electricity and batteries, but rather with an artificial liquid fuel. Perhaps something produced by bacteria eating cellulose. That way we can use the existing gas stations. Why reinvent the wheel?
 
2013-02-15 10:06:46 AM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: I know right? Remember back in the 80s and 90s when they tried to make wireless telephones? Those giant bricks had almost no talk time and were expensive as hell.


See, the difference is, it's not like there already were wireless telephones and someone was introducing a more expensive, less capable version. The phone equivalent of the Tesla would be if someone right now introduced a new cell phone, but it had only half an hour of talk time, took three days to recharge, and cost $10,000. But it looked really, really cool and was powered by farts  instead of electricity.
 
2013-02-15 10:07:21 AM
Tee_Many_Martoonies:

So what your saying is once again my world changing idea was already thought of? Well drat, I guess I won't give up on my day job and I better tell the wife to stop packing for that world tour.

/thanks for the info I'd never heard that and was actually curious.


Some cars even have solar powered fans on the roof to vent out excess heat when the interior of the car gets to a certain temperature.  Cool things have been happening in the last 7 or so years.
 
2013-02-15 10:07:27 AM

fluffy2097: circle jerk


Reddit Like Typing Detected
 
2013-02-15 10:08:07 AM
We also even know that Broder admits that he would take hilariously stupid interpretations of Tesla's advice, so I don't know how much stock to put into Broder following or relaying any instructions given to him by anyone at Tesla:

"She said to shut off the cruise control to take advantage of battery regeneration from occasional braking and slowing down. Based on that advice, I was under the impression that stop-and-go driving at low speeds in the city would help, not hurt, my mileage. "

Essentially:

Rep says: Hey, turn cruise control off so you can recapture some energy when you slow down and brake occasionally.

Broder: OKAY! I'm going to assume that means it's the go-ahead for me to go through extremely low speed stop and go traffic through the Lincoln Tunnel and Manhattan!
 
2013-02-15 10:08:48 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: See, the difference is, it's not like there already were wireless telephones and someone was introducing a more expensive, less capable version.


I don't know... the iPhone sold pretty well...
 
2013-02-15 10:10:22 AM

Pin Fiften Clob: 60 MPH is lower than a huge majority of highway speed limits.  Lots of places have 75 MPH speed limits.


The car can go over 80, it just won't get 270 miles per charge.

Protip: a car going over 80 won't get 270 miles per tank of gas either.
 
2013-02-15 10:10:42 AM

MyRandomName: Where are these magical electricity trees?


Usually in open spaces away from cities.

i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-02-15 10:11:22 AM

Bullseyed: Protip: a car going over 80 won't get 270 miles per tank of gas either.


Mine would. Although, to be fair, I also have a 20 gallon tank.
 
2013-02-15 10:13:00 AM

CeroX: Prank Call of Cthulhu: I can't be quite as smug about "saving the planet."

You are really passionate about the freedom to live a destructive lifestyle aren't you?


The Tesla doesn't strike me as a particularly good way of saving the planet. A lot of electricity is created by burning fossil fuels. Granted, there's some efficiency in pollution control by remediating at one source (the power plant) rather than many (each car). But producing all those batteries isn't exactly environmentally friendly either. Does it beat driving a ridiculously impractical gas guzzling SUV? Absolutely! But it have a significant positive impact worth being smug about? I have no idea, but I suspect not. I'm willing to listen to arguments, though.
 
2013-02-15 10:13:16 AM
The first journalist clearly had an agenda, and I'm not sure how he thought he could get away with it.
 
2013-02-15 10:13:34 AM

trialpha: You would probably require less dedicated stations - unlike gas vehicles, electrics can be recharged at home. Much less need for stations everywhere when the majority of vehicles start out with a full charge every morning.


True. But with a gas car, i can carry one or more of these:

lonelyconservative.com

and have extended range (like say I was traveling across Arizona or something). With an electric car, there needs to be a charging station at least every 'X' miles, no matter where you are.
 
2013-02-15 10:13:55 AM

fluffy2097: Prank Call of Cthulhu: See, the difference is, it's not like there already were wireless telephones and someone was introducing a more expensive, less capable version.

I don't know... the iPhone sold pretty well...


+1. I was wondering if I should drop an iPhone crack or let someone else do it. Enjoy the taste of that delicious, low-hanging fruit.
 
2013-02-15 10:14:05 AM

ronaprhys: Maybe not.  For most people, normal driving would be just fine in something like that.  Commuting back and forth to work, weekend trips to the grocery, etc.  For those longer weekend trips, rent the most appropriate vehicle.  It'd be cheaper that way for the majority of the population.


Who are these people driving four and five hours straight every weekend? I've never met a single one of them.
 
2013-02-15 10:14:34 AM

Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH


Guess what happens to the Veyron when you drive it at 150mph? Oh right it'll run out of gas quickly.

Only difference here is that you can't run a gas can to the Tesla. You people are idiots.
 
2013-02-15 10:15:38 AM

RexTalionis: Bullseyed: Protip: a car going over 80 won't get 270 miles per tank of gas either.

Mine would. Although, to be fair, I also have a 20 gallon tank.


likewise, at 17.5 gallons.
 
TWX
2013-02-15 10:15:50 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Hotdog453: verbaltoxin: Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH

Except it's not a super car. It's a sedan.

Whoopee. A 100k+ sedan that you have to drive at 60MPH.

And you have to spend an hour "refueling."

$100k supercar is a piece of crap. That's just what I want to do when I drive, constantly worry if I can make it to the next recharging station and then spend an hour cooling my heels. Who the fark would be retarded enough to buy one of these?


How often does one need to make a journey of this distance by road?

I'm thinking that the point is that if a driver spends 99% of their time in one city, one can choose a car based on the miles that one expects to drive, and if one needs to occasionally leave the city, one can, even if it's a little less than ideal to do so.

This is not intended to be a roadtrip car necessarily, but with the expensive one having a 300+ mile range, it's not unrealistic to have a meal after four to five hours of driving.
 
2013-02-15 10:17:45 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: +1. I was wondering if I should drop an iPhone crack or let someone else do it. Enjoy the taste of that delicious, low-hanging fruit.


I'm waiting for apple to sue Tesla for having rounded corners on their cars.

Tesla in turn, will sue apple over failing batteries.
 
2013-02-15 10:18:40 AM

Tee_Many_Martoonies: Ok I'm curious now, couldn't they put solar panels in the roof of the car to run the inside electronics leaving the batteries to take care of the major tasks? Wouldn't this increase distance and possibly decrease charging time (by having the solar panels supply electricity to the batteries in charging mode?)


Not significantly, no.  Simple math:   A solar cell that is 20% efficient and 4 square meters in size should produce about 800 watts on average.  A Tesla S with the "300 mile range" battery has a capacity of 85,000 watt-hours.  In the 5.5 hours it would take to drive 300 miles at 55 MPH (the speed for which the range claim is made), that solar panel would add 4,400 watt-hours to the battery, assuming no losses, and that would be about (4,400 / (85,000/300) ) = 16 miles extra range at best.  That's an addition of about 5% more range.

Putting the solar cells on the base model would add about 9 miles to the range (the base model is apparently more efficient because less battery weight).  It still only works out to be about 6% more range.
 
2013-02-15 10:19:29 AM

fredklein: maddermaxx: The thing is, all of those gas stations you go cost a lot of money too, but they weren't all set up in a few years, but over decades and more.

Gas stations require:
A tank to store the gas.
A pump to...pump the gas.

Battery swap stations require:
Heavy equipment to move heavy batteries around.
Lots and lots of storage space for lots and lots of heavy batteries.
Lots and lots of electrical supply to be able to charge the batteries.
Lots and lots of electricity to charge the batteries

Gas stations are CHEAP compared to Battery swap stations. Personally, I think the 'future' of cars lies not with electricity and batteries, but rather with an artificial liquid fuel. Perhaps something produced by bacteria eating cellulose. That way we can use the existing gas stations. Why reinvent the wheel?


Most modern fuel stations cost between $150k to over $800k from what I could find. Underground tanks and safety equipment isn't cheap. The swapping stations cost about $500k at the moment, but that'll come down with repetition. It's hard to predict exactly what we'll all end up using, but as an interim, electric vehicles will be with us for a while, I wager.
 
2013-02-15 10:19:38 AM

APE992: Only difference here is that you can't run a gas can to the Tesla


Nah dude. All EV owners fill there trunks with these things for just such occasions. You can just keep plugging one into another and run power for miles to reach your stranded EV.

www.alliesparty.com
 
2013-02-15 10:20:02 AM

Tee_Many_Martoonies: Ok I'm curious now, couldn't they put solar panels in the roof of the car to run the inside electronics leaving the batteries to take care of the major tasks? Wouldn't this increase distance and possibly decrease charging time (by having the solar panels supply electricity to the batteries in charging mode?)
Seems to me they could streamline the process and add distance for a relatively low cost, or I could be talking out of my ass which has been known to happen, which would explain why I install windows and doors and not design earth shattering, world changing ideas.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVYUPmjJ9bU
 
2013-02-15 10:20:40 AM

dittybopper: Tee_Many_Martoonies: Ok I'm curious now, couldn't they put solar panels in the roof of the car to run the inside electronics leaving the batteries to take care of the major tasks? Wouldn't this increase distance and possibly decrease charging time (by having the solar panels supply electricity to the batteries in charging mode?)

Not significantly, no.  Simple math:   A solar cell that is 20% efficient and 4 square meters in size should produce about 800 watts on average.  A Tesla S with the "300 mile range" battery has a capacity of 85,000 watt-hours.  In the 5.5 hours it would take to drive 300 miles at 55 MPH (the speed for which the range claim is made), that solar panel would add 4,400 watt-hours to the battery, assuming no losses, and that would be about (4,400 / (85,000/300) ) = 16 miles extra range at best.  That's an addition of about 5% more range.

Putting the solar cells on the base model would add about 9 miles to the range (the base model is apparently more efficient because less battery weight).  It still only works out to be about 6% more range.


I should point out in all fairness that you'd get better numbers down in, say, Arizona or New Mexico, then you would up in Maine or Alaska.  Those are an "average" for the US.
 
2013-02-15 10:22:53 AM

RexTalionis: We also even know that Broder admits that he would take hilariously stupid interpretations of Tesla's advice, so I don't know how much stock to put into Broder following or relaying any instructions given to him by anyone at Tesla:

"She said to shut off the cruise control to take advantage of battery regeneration from occasional braking and slowing down. Based on that advice, I was under the impression that stop-and-go driving at low speeds in the city would help, not hurt, my mileage. "

Essentially:

Rep says: Hey, turn cruise control off so you can recapture some energy when you slow down and brake occasionally.

Broder: OKAY! I'm going to assume that means it's the go-ahead for me to go through extremely low speed stop and go traffic through the Lincoln Tunnel and Manhattan!


From Broder's follow-up: "The stop in Manhattan was planned from the beginning and known to Tesla personnel all along."
 
2013-02-15 10:24:51 AM

dittybopper: Not significantly, no.  Simple math:


Yeah, well how about putting a windmill on the car and harvesting that free energy? Huh? How about that, smart guy?

trollscience.com
 
2013-02-15 10:25:29 AM

gsiofa: RexTalionis: gsiofa: "Tesla reps told me to only charge 1 hour even though the range says 32 miles and I had 51 miles to go" or "Tesla reps told me to sit in the car and blast the heat for half an hour because this will magically 'condition' my battery so I get more power."

In this article summing up the back and forth, the NYT reporter names "Tesla representatives Christina Ra and Ted Merendino" as providing the poor instructions that led to the premature end of the drive.
.


Um, their advice let to the car driving 51 miles on only 32 miles worth of charge. I'd say their advice worked. It was the idiot reporter who constantly under-recharged the car who is to blame.
 
TWX
2013-02-15 10:28:11 AM

RexTalionis: Bullseyed: Protip: a car going over 80 won't get 270 miles per tank of gas either.

Mine would. Although, to be fair, I also have a 20 gallon tank.


Yeah, I think that my '95 Impala SS would probably get close to 300.  I find that my overly-high-speed highway driving range is on par with my city driving range.
 
2013-02-15 10:28:33 AM

fluffy2097: maddermaxx: fluffy2097: We went over this yesterday with you. You're retarded. Remember? Power and energy are different.

'We' didn't go over anything, but you're acting like an asshole. It costs less than $10 of power to completely fill a series-S. how much do you spend on power a year? Remember, they charge you at the same rate.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/11/19/greenlings-whats-the-difference -b etween-kw-and-kwh/

Shut up and don't come back until you learn the difference, retard.

Tesla's superchargers run at 400 volts and 200 amps. Most houses run a 200 amp breaker at 110v (or 240 if you use both phases).

I'll let you do the math. If you know, you're capable of it.

Needless to say, if you had a supercharger installed in your home, you'd need the electric company to come out and run entirely new power lines from the poll for it.

Even the home charge systems they use now can require a direct line from the poll. Not everyone wants to be limited to 240v and 30 amps.

Luckily, the slower you charge the thing, the less outrageous a load it is to deal with. Still, a world of all EV's would require the replacement of the countries entire electrical infrastructure.


So just keep using crude oil, right?
 
2013-02-15 10:28:46 AM
Just visited the Tesla website. Realized that I wouldn't be able to afford one any time soon.

Haz a sad.
 
2013-02-15 10:28:47 AM
I said that electric cars have been around since 1839
 a fellow farker said these things are just starting..and the tech will get better
you are somehow missing the point

I stated that you had to drive it under the speed limit to get blah miles
 Maddermax accused me of not reading the article
where the writer said they 'pegged' the needle between 60-65mph
which is below the speed limit for most of america

The point is
these expensive vehicles are inarguably below the standard of petrol or hybrid autos
champion them if the smug is what you measure yourself by
but these are a bad investment with nothing new to offer
 
2013-02-15 10:30:11 AM

fluffy2097: Tee_Many_Martoonies: Ok I'm curious now, couldn't they put solar panels in the roof of the car to run the inside electronics leaving the batteries to take care of the major tasks? Wouldn't this increase distance and possibly decrease charging time (by having the solar panels supply electricity to the batteries in charging mode?)
Seems to me they could streamline the process and add distance for a relatively low cost, or I could be talking out of my ass which has been known to happen, which would explain why I install windows and doors and not design earth shattering, world changing ideas.

They do have solar panels in their roof for interior stuff.

The 12v system and the high power battery for moving the car are separate systems. You can't power one with the other without a big, heavy, hot, transformer.


There you go, conflating voltage with power.  How many volts does the Tesla's high-power battery put out?  More importantly, how much power does the 12-volt system draw?  The size of the step-down transformer necessary to convert the big battery voltage to the 12 volts needed by the interior electronics is driven far more by the current draw of the interior electronics than the voltage difference between the drive system and the interior electronics.
 
2013-02-15 10:30:31 AM

TNel: fredklein: That's not the point.

So you really think that EVERYONE will change their battery everyday? How about maybe 10 people a day TOPS per station. 265 miles with charging overnight will cover (pulling number out of my ass here) atleast 90% of most peoples daily driving.



ASSuming that to be true, that's still only 90% of 200, leaving 20 swaps a day per station, not '10 tops'.

"Road trip?"
"Forget it, i gotta get my car home to charge."
 
2013-02-15 10:34:36 AM

gsiofa: From Broder's follow-up: "The stop in Manhattan was planned from the beginning and known to Tesla personnel all along."


And Musk says that it was an unplanned detour. Guess we have one of them he-said-she-said situations.
 
2013-02-15 10:35:30 AM

Flint Ironstag: For them they drive the car, never stop at a gas station and the car magically has a full tank of "gas" every morning.


Not really-

Description
120V Your basic, standard wall outlet.
Charge time
Usually about 22-24 hours, depending on the car.


So, unless you have a dedicated 240 volt outlet (that only takes 7-8 hours!), you'll need a full day to charge.
 
2013-02-15 10:36:04 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: dittybopper: Not significantly, no.  Simple math:

Yeah, well how about putting a windmill on the car and harvesting that free energy? Huh? How about that, smart guy?


assets.inhabitat.com
Sounds good to me.
 
2013-02-15 10:36:57 AM

RexTalionis: gsiofa: From Broder's follow-up: "The stop in Manhattan was planned from the beginning and known to Tesla personnel all along."

And Musk says that it was an unplanned detour. Guess we have one of them he-said-she-said situations.


We'll see. I have a feeling this one's not over.
 
2013-02-15 10:37:10 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: dittybopper: Not significantly, no.  Simple math:

Yeah, well how about putting a windmill on the car and harvesting that free energy? Huh? How about that, smart guy?

[trollscience.com image 800x1041]


I'm going down to the garage to get started right now, where does the intercooler go?
 
2013-02-15 10:38:02 AM

fredklein: Flint Ironstag: For them they drive the car, never stop at a gas station and the car magically has a full tank of "gas" every morning.

Not really-

Description
120V Your basic, standard wall outlet.
Charge time
Usually about 22-24 hours, depending on the car.

So, unless you have a dedicated 240 volt outlet (that only takes 7-8 hours!), you'll need a full day to charge.


Bear in mind that the person who has a 30 mile commute and plugs it in at night doesn't need a full charge each time.
 
2013-02-15 10:38:15 AM

fredklein: TNel: fredklein: That's not the point.

So you really think that EVERYONE will change their battery everyday? How about maybe 10 people a day TOPS per station. 265 miles with charging overnight will cover (pulling number out of my ass here) atleast 90% of most peoples daily driving.


ASSuming that to be true, that's still only 90% of 200, leaving 20 swaps a day per station, not '10 tops'.

"Road trip?"
"Forget it, i gotta get my car home to charge."


So if it takes an hour to charge what's the issue?  You have to store no more than 5 at a time, maybe 6.  If your station "runs out" and someone has to wait 10 min they can go the the next station down the road.  You are making a bigger issue from something that most likely will never happen.

If your station was on the turnpike you would probably store 50 of them but you would be charging more for them anyways.  All of these issues can be easily fixed.
 
2013-02-15 10:39:57 AM

fredklein: gsiofa: RexTalionis: gsiofa: "Tesla reps told me to only charge 1 hour even though the range says 32 miles and I had 51 miles to go" or "Tesla reps told me to sit in the car and blast the heat for half an hour because this will magically 'condition' my battery so I get more power."

In this article summing up the back and forth, the NYT reporter names "Tesla representatives Christina Ra and Ted Merendino" as providing the poor instructions that led to the premature end of the drive.
.

Um, their advice let to the car driving 51 miles on only 32 miles worth of charge. I'd say their advice worked. It was the idiot reporter who constantly under-recharged the car who is to blame.


The reporter wrote: [quoting Musk],  "For [Broder's] first recharge, he charged the car to 90%. During the second Supercharge, despite almost running out of energy on the prior leg, he deliberately stopped charging at 72%. On the third leg, where he claimed the car ran out of energy, he stopped charging at 28%. Despite narrowly making each leg, he charged less and less each time. Why would anyone do that?"

[Broder's response]: I stopped at 72 percent because I had replenished more than enough energy for the miles I intended to drive the next day before fully recharging on my way back to New York. In Norwich, I charged for an hour on the lower-power charger, expressly on the instructions of Tesla personnel, to get enough range to reach the Supercharger station in Milford.
 
2013-02-15 10:42:04 AM

alowishus: How hard would it be to treat electric car batteries like propane tanks?  You stop at the station and and swap your empty one for a full one.  Or am I missing an obvious problem with that?


Sounds good to me, although the battery packs on a Prius weigh ~120 pounds and are hard to swap out by design (ZAP! You're dead). But future car designs could accommodate such emergency battery swaps if the charging issue over long road trips proves to be a problem.

/may make more sense to run an emergency car generator off of propane anyway
 
2013-02-15 10:43:32 AM

dittybopper: csnake24: NYT is just the propaganda arm of the GOP (well the less extremist part of the GOP if that still exists).

Right.   That's why the NYT has endorsed only democrats for president since 1960.  Must be a double-bluff.  It's an X-K-Red 27 technique.


What a stupid thing to say.

/ London Underground is not a political movement.
 
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