If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CNN)   CNN Money decides to step into the spat between Tesla and the New York Times by driving the same Boston to D.C. route in the Model-S as the NYT's reviewer did. "With a full battery, there was no need -- none at all -- to nurse the car's battery"   (money.cnn.com) divider line 368
    More: Followup, Model S, cnnmoney, NYT, flatbed trucks, District of Columbia, New Jersey Turnpike  
•       •       •

14358 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Feb 2013 at 7:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



368 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-02-15 09:25:52 AM

fredklein: alowishus: How hard would it be to treat electric car batteries like propane tanks?  You stop at the station and and swap your empty one for a full one.  Or am I missing an obvious problem with that?

Liability problems. If a driver turns in a damaged/broken/messed up battery, and the service station gives it to someone else and it causes problems or injuries or death, they could get sued. Which is why places that swap propane tanks don't accept damaged or rusty ones. Unfortunately, with batteries, it's not as simple as seeing it's dented or rusty.

Supply problems. Every 'gas station' ('electron station'?) would need to have a good supply of these things, a place to store them while charging, equipment to move them around (batteries are heavy), etc. Oh, and the electrical capacity to charge them.

Standardization problems. Gas can be poured into any size or shape tank. But a battery pack needs to fit a specific receptacle. That means they must be a standard size/shape. Any change to the standard requires having both 'old' and 'new' types, (see 'Supply problems' above.)

Customer Service problems. "You're taking my fresh, new, shiny batteries, and giving me those nasty, dirty things? I'm the customer and I'm always right! I want -those- batteries. Whatta you mean they're not charged yet? I wanna see your manager!"


Whats one of those batteries cost?  A propane tank is what $30 or so? (the tank not the gas).  I seem to remember those batteries being thousands a piece.  How many people fill up at a typical busy gas station a day?  A thousand or so?  Having to have a few million of dollars of inventory on hand seems like a pretty big problem both in terms getting new stations started as well as for security reasons.
 
2013-02-15 09:26:00 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: asmodeus224: Why do you hate capitalism and free markets, no one is buying electric cars thinking it is entirely cost free, it is emissions free which is good.  You are clearly confused, stop changing your arguments so much and maybe you could keep things straight.

THIS.  I've never seen people so personally invested in convincing  other people to not buy a particular car.  I don't understand the motivation.  And if all the haters can come up with are blatant lies and misinformation like  fluffy2097 and this NYT reporter, it's clear that they've got no good reason.


Same as Android vs Apple though.  People defend what they are used to.
 
2013-02-15 09:26:02 AM

Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH


A car designed to not break the law? That's just crazy.
 
2013-02-15 09:26:16 AM

TheGreatGazoo: I'd hardly call it a right wing newspaper.


On the other hand, as I recall, Judith Miller beat the war drum for Iraq so hard her arm nearly fell off, so there is that.
 
2013-02-15 09:29:21 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Hotdog453: verbaltoxin: Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH

Except it's not a super car. It's a sedan.

Whoopee. A 100k+ sedan that you have to drive at 60MPH.

And you have to spend an hour "refueling."

$100k supercar is a piece of crap. That's just what I want to do when I drive, constantly worry if I can make it to the next recharging station and then spend an hour cooling my heels. Who the fark would be retarded enough to buy one of these?


An hour refueling if you plan on driving 300 miles non-stop. Anyone who drives more than 300 miles a day and isn't a trucker, probably has made some really poor life decisions.

I drive to and from work at the beginning/end of the day, and again on lunch to feed my dog. That's about 30 miles a day.
 
2013-02-15 09:29:27 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Ebbelwoi: And, if all consumers truly made auto purchase decisions based on their actual needs, we wouldn't have Soccer Moms and other single drivers driving around in behemoth 4WD SUVs whose offroad capabilities will never, ever be utillized.

THIS.  I imagine the people screaming and crying about the range restrictions of driving an electric car are the same people who, when confronted with the efficiency problems of a Hummer, scream and cry about how it's not important because of how "fun" the car is.


Not me.

I scream and cry about the range restrictions of driving an electric car, and I drive a Hyundai Accent, because I'm all about the cheapest per-mile total cost*, and right now, electrics ain't there.

*This includes *ALL* costs, including the cost of the car itself.
 
2013-02-15 09:30:43 AM

Hotdog453: Whoopee. A 100k+ sedan that you have to drive at 60MPH.


If you're driving a sports car on the highway, you are doing it wrong.

That said, I have easily driven down California canyon and mountain roads for hundreds of miles in a trip.

I'd run out of power before I was done having fun in a Tesla I suspect. It'd be annoying.
 
2013-02-15 09:31:35 AM
Well.. did they charge it up to 90%, or 100%.  the latter may reduce pack life.
 
2013-02-15 09:31:39 AM

Carth: If you have to finance more than half the cost of car you can't afford it.


I financed 100% of my car, because they were offering 0% financing. Quite affordable! There's probably a better rule of thumb analogous to "your rent/mortgage should be no more than 1/3 of your paycheck". Your car payment should probably be no more than 5-10% of your paycheck, I suspect.
 
2013-02-15 09:31:50 AM
TheGreatGazoo: "The New York Times hasn't endorsed a Republican president since Dwight Eisenhower."

To be fair, the GOP trended from "right wing" to "fairly extreme right wing" starting around that time.
So it's quite possible to be Right Wing and disagree with the current GOP.
(Fun game: try to find a *single* policy of Obama's that wasn't originally an official GOP position or right-wing think-tank wet dream.)

So, sure, it's not literally a GOP mouthpiece.  But that doesn't mean it isn't notably right of center.
 
2013-02-15 09:31:52 AM

Bullseyed: Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH

A car designed to not break the law? That's just crazy.


Actually, that *WOULD* be crazy, and that's why cars aren't equipped with speed governors that limit them to 60 or 65 MPH, even though doing so would undoubtedly save a ton of money and reduce emissions.
 
2013-02-15 09:32:27 AM

dittybopper: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Ebbelwoi: And, if all consumers truly made auto purchase decisions based on their actual needs, we wouldn't have Soccer Moms and other single drivers driving around in behemoth 4WD SUVs whose offroad capabilities will never, ever be utillized.

THIS.  I imagine the people screaming and crying about the range restrictions of driving an electric car are the same people who, when confronted with the efficiency problems of a Hummer, scream and cry about how it's not important because of how "fun" the car is.

Not me.

I scream and cry about the range restrictions of driving an electric car, and I drive a Hyundai Accent, because I'm all about the cheapest per-mile total cost*, and right now, electrics ain't there.

*This includes *ALL* costs, including the cost of the car itself.


Because screaming and crying will make the range better?  First gen of any new tech is nowhere near as good as the later models.  Gas cars have been around for what a hundred years now?  Think what EV cars will be like in 100 years.
 
2013-02-15 09:32:32 AM

Bullseyed: Anyone who drives more than 300 miles a day and isn't a trucker, probably has made some really poor life decisions.


Or they like driving their $100,000 car a whole lot, and are willing to dedicate all day to the act of driving it.
 
2013-02-15 09:32:32 AM

fluffy2097: Notabunny: As the price for all-electric cars drops, demand for charging stations will increase. My guess is that municipalities will then begin buying all-electric cars for their fleets. I think the infrastructure will grow quickly at that point.

Charging a Tesla S with the supercharging system requires 90Kw of power.

That's as much electricity as the average house uses in an entire year.

 ...

not without adding a time term in there, it isn't. Plus, as others have pointed out, a house uses a lot more than 90kWh in a year.
You later try to make the argument that what you really meant was  supply: most houses aren't wired for 240V, 400A service, which is true. But talking about  instantaneous capacity is very, very different from use over time.
 
2013-02-15 09:32:41 AM

fluffy2097: maddermaxx: fluffy2097: We went over this yesterday with you. You're retarded. Remember? Power and energy are different.

'We' didn't go over anything, but you're acting like an asshole. It costs less than $10 of power to completely fill a series-S. how much do you spend on power a year? Remember, they charge you at the same rate.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/11/19/greenlings-whats-the-difference -b etween-kw-and-kwh/

Shut up and don't come back until you learn the difference, retard.

Tesla's superchargers run at 400 volts and 200 amps. Most houses run a 200 amp breaker at 110v (or 240 if you use both phases).

I'll let you do the math. If you know, you're capable of it.

Needless to say, if you had a supercharger installed in your home, you'd need the electric company to come out and run entirely new power lines from the poll for it.

Even the home charge systems they use now can require a direct line from the poll. Not everyone wants to be limited to 240v and 30 amps.

Luckily, the slower you charge the thing, the less outrageous a load it is to deal with. Still, a world of all EV's would require the replacement of the countries entire electrical infrastructure.


Most people will be charging their car at night in their driveway/garage.  Off-peak and overnight.  Fast charging is not a requirement or even a necessity in this scenario.   The power requirements can stay well within the values your house currently has, and no major changes to the electrical system would be needed for a very long time.  Adoption is most likely going to be localized to major metropolitan areas for a long time, those equipped to handle higher power loads and moreerratic swings between peak/off-peak.  For many, MANY years, all the cars will be doing is leveling the difference between peak / off peak consumption rates.

It will most likely be decades before the strain of increased EVs will require large-scale replacement of the electrical system.  During that time, many of the older, failing components of the electrical system will also be getting replaced, anyway.
 
2013-02-15 09:32:46 AM

natas6.0: So basically, we have a $100,000 pretty POS
in a perfect world this car should be able to go blah miles if you drive under the speed limit
I have lots of money and I'm a complete nincompoop
my god, this thing is perfect!

electric vehicles have been around since 1839
this is the best science can offer?


Did you even read the Article? Says that the CNN team managed to drive all the way, no worries, no nursing, going at or over the speed limit. Considering that EVs are more suited to city commuting, that's pretty cool, and a sign of things to come. Meanwhile, I'm sure there were people back in 1900 who were saying 'those new fangled automobiles will never catch on. So expensive, and the fuel is hard to find! A good horse can eat grass from the roadside, but your auto-doodad can't do that! I'll stick with the carriage thankyou".
 
2013-02-15 09:34:39 AM

natas6.0: electric vehicles have been around since 1839
this is the best science can offer?




No, it's the starting point of what a startup with limited capabilities was able to offer. From here on, things will improve dramatically, just like the internal combustion engine improved since the model T days.
 
2013-02-15 09:34:50 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Well.. did they charge it up to 90%, or 100%.  the latter may reduce pack life.


Tesla states specifically that Supercharging is not good for the battery pack and should be avoided when possible. Fully charging the battery is another thing to be avoided, if you want your battery to have as long a lifespan as possible.
 
2013-02-15 09:36:08 AM

Driedsponge: Most people will be charging their car at night in their driveway/garage. Off-peak and overnight.


Except when most people are dumping a huge load onto the electric grid every single night, overnight becomes peak hours.
 
2013-02-15 09:36:09 AM

alowishus: How hard would it be to treat electric car batteries like propane tanks?  You stop at the station and and swap your empty one for a full one.  Or am I missing an obvious problem with that?


Or have an extra battery in the trunk.
 
2013-02-15 09:36:25 AM

Bullseyed: An hour refueling if you plan on driving 300 miles non-stop. Anyone who drives more than 300 miles a day and isn't a trucker, probably has made some really poor life decisions.


What about all the diaper-wearing astronauts who are on a mission to kidnap someone?
 
2013-02-15 09:39:40 AM

fluffy2097: Driedsponge: Most people will be charging their car at night in their driveway/garage. Off-peak and overnight.

Except when most people are dumping a huge load onto the electric grid every single night, overnight becomes peak hours.


Most people won't have electric cars for quite some time
 
2013-02-15 09:40:28 AM

Notabunny: fluffy2097: Driedsponge: Most people will be charging their car at night in their driveway/garage. Off-peak and overnight.

Except when most people are dumping a huge load onto the electric grid every single night, overnight becomes peak hours.

Most people won't have electric cars for quite some time


And by the time they do, our grid system would be quite different from our current grid system.
 
2013-02-15 09:40:37 AM
Having a hard time figuring out why people think the NYT reporter is lying, but do not think Elon Musk is lying. As far as I can tell, there has been no independent verification of Musk's data, and the reporter clearly took good notes (recordings?) of calls with Tesla reps where bad advice was given.
 
2013-02-15 09:43:37 AM

gsiofa: reporter clearly took good notes (recordings?) of calls with Tesla reps where bad advice was given.


Where?
 
2013-02-15 09:43:59 AM

Tommy Moo: Prank Call of Cthulhu: Who the fark would be retarded enough to buy one of these?

It would be absolutely perfect for a well-to-do liberal living in a city suburb who pretty much always flies anywhere if he's going more than 150 miles. Also a green married couple that's solidly in the upper middle class. They could own two vehicles and just take the gas one if they're worried about a long trip.


That would be me....and I'm strongly considering it
 
2013-02-15 09:44:57 AM

gsiofa: Having a hard time figuring out why people think the NYT reporter is lying, but do not think Elon Musk is lying. As far as I can tell, there has been no independent verification of Musk's data, and the reporter clearly took good notes (recordings?) of calls with Tesla reps where bad advice was given.


because elon musk circle jerk.

When the 12v battery on a tesla dies, The parking brake locks on. Which would explain why the logs show power left in the battery yet the car needing to be towed. I doubt "attach jumper cables" is something you can easily do to a Tesla.
 
2013-02-15 09:45:04 AM
Also, Tesla has been plagued with issues since its inception, including delays in Model S development and production, delays in Roadster production, a recall of 75% of Roadsters on the road in 2010, and the sudden unannounced closure of their Detroit office (it was later reopened) that included firing most of their staff in Michigan.

So why is this company's CEO to be trusted so readily?
 
2013-02-15 09:45:47 AM

gsiofa: Also, Tesla has been plagued with issues since its inception, including delays in Model S development and production, delays in Roadster production, a recall of 75% of Roadsters on the road in 2010, and the sudden unannounced closure of their Detroit office (it was later reopened) that included firing most of their staff in Michigan.

So why is this company's CEO to be trusted so readily?


Because Elon Musk circle jerk.
 
2013-02-15 09:45:51 AM

fluffy2097: Driedsponge: Most people will be charging their car at night in their driveway/garage. Off-peak and overnight.

Except when most people are dumping a huge load onto the electric grid every single night, overnight becomes peak hours.


That seems like a weird concern. How many years will it take before "most people" have electric cars, given that this one is $100k? Engineers won't think to examine the energy infrastructure and take things like this into consideration as behaviors change? Parking lots at offices and the like won't install increasing numbers of daytime charging stations if "most people" have electric cars? Why wouldn't people adjust to this theoretical huge shift in behavior?

I wouldn't buy one at this stage but you're worrying about a problem a LONG ways out as an excuse to nay-say the beginnings of something that by all accounts is a step we need to take for long-term energy concern.
 
2013-02-15 09:46:22 AM
it isn't clean energy and nonpolluting unless the electricity is generated that way.  just sayin.

Small, clean thorium reactors around the US to run the charging stations?  Now we are talking.
 
2013-02-15 09:47:00 AM

fluffy2097: Driedsponge: Most people will be charging their car at night in their driveway/garage. Off-peak and overnight.

Except when most people are dumping a huge load onto the electric grid every single night, overnight becomes peak hours.


Which I made mention of when I said:

Driedsponge: For many, MANY years, all the cars will be doing is leveling the difference between peak / off peak consumption rates.


You are also assuming that everyone will drive the full range of 300 miles in a day, and you will have to charge your entire battery overnight.  If the average commute is 30-60 miles, and your charger can trickle charge all night to refill it, then my statement still stands...it will be decades before any major change to the electrical system will be required to support the EV network.

My daily commute is <10 miles.  My car never gets more than 50-60 miles put on it in a day.  I could trickle charge the car all night on a 110V outlet, never run out of power, never hit the max range, and never have to stop at a gas station again.  If I needed a long trip?  We'd take the wife's Rav4.
 
2013-02-15 09:48:03 AM

RexTalionis: gsiofa: reporter clearly took good notes (recordings?) of calls with Tesla reps where bad advice was given.

Where?


Where what? Where notes? Musk never refuted the reporter's quotes that were attributed to Tesla reps. Constant poor handling from Tesla helped create the problems on the test drive. Which, by the way, it wasn't even supposed to be a test drive, but rather a test of the charging system. Musk's silly public reaction is the only reason I (and probably many people) even heard of the story.
 
2013-02-15 09:48:08 AM

Electromax: Engineers won't think to examine the energy infrastructure and take things like this into consideration as behaviors change?


Considering it's been something like 40 years since the last major investment in our energy infrastructure...

No, I don't think we'll do it in the next 40 either. To many NIMBYs.
 
2013-02-15 09:48:44 AM

RexTalionis: Notabunny: fluffy2097: Driedsponge: Most people will be charging their car at night in their driveway/garage. Off-peak and overnight.

Except when most people are dumping a huge load onto the electric grid every single night, overnight becomes peak hours.

Most people won't have electric cars for quite some time

And by the time they do, our grid system would be quite different from our current grid system.


Correct. Overnight charging, anticipated this far before it becomes an issue, will probably never become an issue.
 
2013-02-15 09:50:14 AM
Ok I'm curious now, couldn't they put solar panels in the roof of the car to run the inside electronics leaving the batteries to take care of the major tasks? Wouldn't this increase distance and possibly decrease charging time (by having the solar panels supply electricity to the batteries in charging mode?)
Seems to me they could streamline the process and add distance for a relatively low cost, or I could be talking out of my ass which has been known to happen, which would explain why I install windows and doors and not design earth shattering, world changing ideas.
 
2013-02-15 09:51:25 AM

gsiofa: RexTalionis: gsiofa: reporter clearly took good notes (recordings?) of calls with Tesla reps where bad advice was given.

Where?

Where what? Where notes? Musk never refuted the reporter's quotes that were attributed to Tesla reps. Constant poor handling from Tesla helped create the problems on the test drive. Which, by the way, it wasn't even supposed to be a test drive, but rather a test of the charging system. Musk's silly public reaction is the only reason I (and probably many people) even heard of the story.


Where did he take these good notes or recordings? Because as far as I can tell, every time he had a failure, he just said "Tesla reps told me to only charge 1 hour even though the range says 32 miles and I had 51 miles to go" or "Tesla reps told me to sit in the car and blast the heat for half an hour because this will magically 'condition' my battery so I get more power."
 
2013-02-15 09:51:26 AM
art.penny-arcade.com
 
2013-02-15 09:51:29 AM
Anyone know the temperature through the duration of the NYT reporter's drive, vs the temperature during the CNN Money reporter's drive, and what (if any) effect that would have?
 
2013-02-15 09:52:55 AM

Tee_Many_Martoonies: Ok I'm curious now, couldn't they put solar panels in the roof of the car to run the inside electronics leaving the batteries to take care of the major tasks? Wouldn't this increase distance and possibly decrease charging time (by having the solar panels supply electricity to the batteries in charging mode?)
Seems to me they could streamline the process and add distance for a relatively low cost, or I could be talking out of my ass which has been known to happen, which would explain why I install windows and doors and not design earth shattering, world changing ideas.


They do have solar panels in their roof for interior stuff.

The 12v system and the high power battery for moving the car are separate systems. You can't power one with the other without a big, heavy, hot, transformer.
 
2013-02-15 09:53:47 AM

gsiofa: RexTalionis: gsiofa: reporter clearly took good notes (recordings?) of calls with Tesla reps where bad advice was given.

Where?

Where what? Where notes? Musk never refuted the reporter's quotes that were attributed to Tesla reps. Constant poor handling from Tesla helped create the problems on the test drive. Which, by the way, it wasn't even supposed to be a test drive, but rather a test of the charging system. Musk's silly public reaction is the only reason I (and probably many people) even heard of the story.


So you take issue with the fact Tesla can't confirm or deny a tech's quotes because they (presumably) didn't record the calls, but you'll happily say that Elon Musk faked the data wholesale, despite the reporter admitting many of the facts of the drive (and which he left out of the original article) were true?
 
2013-02-15 09:54:02 AM

TNel: dittybopper: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Ebbelwoi: And, if all consumers truly made auto purchase decisions based on their actual needs, we wouldn't have Soccer Moms and other single drivers driving around in behemoth 4WD SUVs whose offroad capabilities will never, ever be utillized.

THIS.  I imagine the people screaming and crying about the range restrictions of driving an electric car are the same people who, when confronted with the efficiency problems of a Hummer, scream and cry about how it's not important because of how "fun" the car is.

Not me.

I scream and cry about the range restrictions of driving an electric car, and I drive a Hyundai Accent, because I'm all about the cheapest per-mile total cost*, and right now, electrics ain't there.

*This includes *ALL* costs, including the cost of the car itself.

Because screaming and crying will make the range better?  First gen of any new tech is nowhere near as good as the later models.  Gas cars have been around for what a hundred years now?  Think what EV cars will be like in 100 years.


Yes, screaming and crying *WILL* make the range better, because those who work on that sort of thing hear about it, understand that's a sticking point for most people, and work towards bettering it.  Screaming and crying about the range issues is a *FEATURE*, not a bug, and if you are a BEV advocate, you should be screaming and crying along with the rest of us instead of saying "well, you'll need to adjust your habits".

Also, electric cars have also been around for over 100 years.

The problem is recharge time.  It's less convenient to recharge pure battery electric vehicle than it is to refuel a liquid fueled vehicle.  I can't see battery recharge times getting to the "5 minutes for 300+ mile range" you can get with liquid fuels.  "Liquid fueled" doesn't necessarily mean petroleum based, or even internal combustion:  It could also apply to fuel cell electrics, which I think are the technology of the future to watch.  You can also leverage the already installed liquid refueling infrastructure to handle it.
 
2013-02-15 09:56:06 AM

gsiofa: Anyone know the temperature through the duration of the NYT reporter's drive, vs the temperature during the CNN Money reporter's drive, and what (if any) effect that would have?


Low of 14 (when he stopped for the night) vs 31.

Government keeps track of temperature records luckily, so if you don't believe me, go look it up.

However, many Teslas are sold in cold climates. It shouldn't be an issue like what he experienced.

Which means he did something (Like leave the cabin heater on 74 all night), or something in the Tesla did went wrong.
 
2013-02-15 09:56:25 AM
gsiofa: "Having a hard time figuring out why people think the NYT reporter is lying, but do not think Elon Musk is lying "

Plenty of people are arguing about whether Musk's data supports his accusations.  Even without considering that it might be fake.
So it's not like people are just taking Musk at face value.

It just isn't getting as much attention because even *those* people aren't arguing that Broder's experience was reasonable.

Keep in mind that this CNN Money guy in TFA is not the first journalist to take a Tesla around the East Coast without a problem. Including another journalist at the NY Times.
And if six people take a given road trip in a given car, five have a blast and rate the car highly and one basically says the car's core technology is confusing and problematic and it doesn't even really work, who should we *expect* to be off?  It's certainly *possible* the outlier had a novel experience that exposed a problem.  But that would put him in a place where he has to back up his case.  And when he actually admits, right in his original piece, that he re-charged less and less every time he plugged in? You don't need Musk's data to laugh off Broder's critique of the car's range.
 
2013-02-15 09:56:26 AM

TNel: fredklein: maddermaxx: They already have the technology, and it's already in action. Look up Better Place battery swapping.

Looks like they only have things set up in small countries, like Denmark:
"The Gladsaxe station is the first of 20 planned battery switch stations"

20 whole stations. Wow. I'm sure the USA will require a few more than that. There's almost 200,000 gas stations in the US right now, and electric cars have less range, and so need more, closer recharging stations. Setting up a few prototypes is cool and all, but it's a long way from having a working (workable) nationwide system. And having a few stations set up doesn't 'solve' any of the problems I mentioned.

All 200,000 stations were built in 1920s?  EV is new how many gas stations were around when the Model Ts came out?  You can kick and scream about technology all you want but gas powered cars are going away.  It might take 10-20 years from now but it is going to happen.


That's not the point.

Lets say it's 200,000 stations. Each gas station has how many customers a day? 10? 100? 200? I dunno. (Googled it, found numbers around 200, so lets use that.)

200 swaps a day. Lets assume a full recharge time of 1 hour. (Yeah,right. "Usually about 7-8 hours" on 240 volts!) So, on average, a station that's open 20 hours a day needs a minimum of 10 batteries in the back That's assuming the swaps happen exactly on the hour, every hour. In real life, they don't, so you'd probably need twice that many spares charging. And busy stations need even more.

That's 40,000,000 swaps a day in the USA. That means at least 40,000,000 batteries that need to be charged every day. That's a hell of a drain on the electrical system. (And no, you can't just at night, because you need to swap those batteries back to customers today. Unless you want to double the number of batteries again). I don't know how much power it takes to charge one, but multiply that by 10, 20, even 40 for ONE station ( 200 amp service HA! Try 2000 or more! That means re-wiring and new transformers, etc.)

The batteries weigh 550- 600 pounds. Each. That means heavy equipment to move them. Several sets of equipment, unless people want long waits. I know the prototypes automatically remove/insert from under the car, but that doesn't help "Joes garage" in bumfark Idaho- he doesn't have a Million dollars lying around for a fancy-smancy underground battery changer- he has to change them manually. Unless you plan on driving him out of business, of course.

The batteries are "250-300 L" in size, or about 10 cubic feet in size. That's a lot of storage space.

And so on.

Again, prototypes are cool. but I don't think they scale up.
 
2013-02-15 09:57:21 AM

Hotdog453: If I was insanely wealthy I'd buy one, and have my servant follow me in a ZR1. We would then swap when I have to recharge. But then he'd never be able to catch up, as I could refuel in like 3 minutes.

I'd never see my loyal servant again.


Of course not.  You just traded him a car that only has room for one other passenger vs 6, costs $20 to go 100 miles vs $1.50, and is slower 0-60.

I'd hide from you too.
 
2013-02-15 09:57:25 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Hotdog453: verbaltoxin: Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH

Except it's not a super car. It's a sedan.

Whoopee. A 100k+ sedan that you have to drive at 60MPH.

And you have to spend an hour "refueling."

$100k supercar is a piece of crap. That's just what I want to do when I drive, constantly worry if I can make it to the next recharging station and then spend an hour cooling my heels. Who the fark would be retarded enough to buy one of these?


I know right? Remember back in the 80s and 90s when they tried to make wireless telephones? Those giant bricks had almost no talk time and were expensive as hell.

Glad we gave up on those.
 
2013-02-15 09:57:46 AM

RexTalionis: gsiofa: RexTalionis: gsiofa: reporter clearly took good notes (recordings?) of calls with Tesla reps where bad advice was given.

Where?

Where what? Where notes? Musk never refuted the reporter's quotes that were attributed to Tesla reps. Constant poor handling from Tesla helped create the problems on the test drive. Which, by the way, it wasn't even supposed to be a test drive, but rather a test of the charging system. Musk's silly public reaction is the only reason I (and probably many people) even heard of the story.

Where did he take these good notes or recordings? Because as far as I can tell, every time he had a failure, he just said "Tesla reps told me to only charge 1 hour even though the range says 32 miles and I had 51 miles to go" or "Tesla reps told me to sit in the car and blast the heat for half an hour because this will magically 'condition' my battery so I get more power."


In this article summing up the back and forth, the NYT reporter names "Tesla representatives Christina Ra and Ted Merendino" as providing the poor instructions that led to the premature end of the drive. My presumption is that the reporter's notes were strong enough so he could keep track of who said what, and attribute statements accordingly. If Tesla does not counter the statements from Ra and Merendino then it looks like a win for the reporter, in my opinion.
 
2013-02-15 09:59:41 AM

maddermaxx: gsiofa: RexTalionis: gsiofa: reporter clearly took good notes (recordings?) of calls with Tesla reps where bad advice was given.

Where?

Where what? Where notes? Musk never refuted the reporter's quotes that were attributed to Tesla reps. Constant poor handling from Tesla helped create the problems on the test drive. Which, by the way, it wasn't even supposed to be a test drive, but rather a test of the charging system. Musk's silly public reaction is the only reason I (and probably many people) even heard of the story.

So you take issue with the fact Tesla can't confirm or deny a tech's quotes because they (presumably) didn't record the calls, but you'll happily say that Elon Musk faked the data wholesale, despite the reporter admitting many of the facts of the drive (and which he left out of the original article) were true?


Yeah, I didn't say that. I asked why so many people were willing to take Musk at his word, and if the data could be verified. I didn't say he was lying, just like I wouldn't say the reporter made up the story either.
 
2013-02-15 09:59:47 AM

fluffy2097: Tee_Many_Martoonies: Ok I'm curious now, couldn't they put solar panels in the roof of the car to run the inside electronics leaving the batteries to take care of the major tasks? Wouldn't this increase distance and possibly decrease charging time (by having the solar panels supply electricity to the batteries in charging mode?)
Seems to me they could streamline the process and add distance for a relatively low cost, or I could be talking out of my ass which has been known to happen, which would explain why I install windows and doors and not design earth shattering, world changing ideas.

They do have solar panels in their roof for interior stuff.

The 12v system and the high power battery for moving the car are separate systems. You can't power one with the other without a big, heavy, hot, transformer.


So what your saying is once again my world changing idea was already thought of? Well drat, I guess I won't give up on my day job and I better tell the wife to stop packing for that world tour.

/thanks for the info I'd never heard that and was actually curious.
 
Displayed 50 of 368 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report