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(CNN)   CNN Money decides to step into the spat between Tesla and the New York Times by driving the same Boston to D.C. route in the Model-S as the NYT's reviewer did. "With a full battery, there was no need -- none at all -- to nurse the car's battery"   (money.cnn.com) divider line 368
    More: Followup, Model S, cnnmoney, NYT, flatbed trucks, District of Columbia, New Jersey Turnpike  
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14357 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Feb 2013 at 7:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-15 08:58:24 AM

TNel: Notabunny:

As the price for all-electric cars drops, demand for charging stations will increase. My guess is that municipalities will then begin buying all-electric cars for their fleets. I think the infrastructure will grow quickly at that point.

They need to get the military to switch to them like they had them switch to E85, that would get the ball rolling faster.


They've been buying up Chevy Volts at a quick pace.
 
2013-02-15 08:58:39 AM

Greek: Prank Call of Cthulhu: Hotdog453: verbaltoxin: Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH

Except it's not a super car. It's a sedan.

Whoopee. A 100k+ sedan that you have to drive at 60MPH.

And you have to spend an hour "refueling."

$100k supercar is a piece of crap. That's just what I want to do when I drive, constantly worry if I can make it to the next recharging station and then spend an hour cooling my heels. Who the fark would be retarded enough to buy one of these?

You DO realize that you're basically saying what people in the late 1800s did about gasoline- powered cars, right? This is how new technology is- the early ones have limitations, and are stupid expensive. Then, as the companies recoup their initial investment, the price drops and the limitations start disappearing.

Or are we still using 8- bit computers that run at 1 MHz, have 128k of RAM, and cost the equivalent of $3,000 in today's dollars? I also remember that Apple had a 10 MB hard drive back in 1985.It was called the Sider. (because it sat on the side, and was an apple. har har.) Anyhow, that thing was about the size of a cinder block and cost $700- about $1400 or so in today's dollars.

My point is that these things will get better and cheaper. Give it some time.


UUmmm, time allows inflation to do it's thang and, in theory, income increases.
But, the times are a changing. Don't expect the economic scenery to resemble anything you are used to.
Batteries will improve, but the dangerous aspects of them will increase exponentially.

We tried steam and electric long ago. There were shortcommings.
Both technologies are inherantly dangerous. Too much potential energy can be realized in too short a time. In other words, boomable by stupidity.
Both techs are potentially weaponizable, easily.
 
2013-02-15 08:58:42 AM

MyRandomName: But even with solar, how much of U.S. electricity is generated from it. More could be but it is costly. Germany has a fairly large tax hit per citizen to subsidize their solar build up.


some states (like Maryland) are going the SREC route;  but again, infrastructure costs.  The ROI on my panels is 7 years after credits, SRECs, etc.   But this only inches things along, vs. Germany going whole hog and taxing out.

so I think we're in violent agreement?
 
2013-02-15 08:58:55 AM

fluffy2097: Notabunny: As the price for all-electric cars drops, demand for charging stations will increase. My guess is that municipalities will then begin buying all-electric cars for their fleets. I think the infrastructure will grow quickly at that point.

Charging a Tesla S with the supercharging system requires 90Kw of power.

That's as much electricity as the average house uses in an entire year.

To charge your car.

If you think quick charging stations are going to stay cheap, or that our electrical grid can handle them without a 100% complete overhaul to double plant and transmission line capacity, you are insane.


Lol, bullshiat much? Average house uses 20kWH per day.
 
2013-02-15 08:59:40 AM

maddermaxx: MyRandomName: Where are these magical electricity trees? There is still pollution, it is just shifted somewhere else.

Electric cars still are far more efficient, and produce less emissions. There was a study done where they found that even with 70% of your power coming from coal, you still produce fewer emissions with an electirc than a petrol car. As only about 30% of US power now comes from coal, Electrics are far and away the better option.


there was a really damned good map of the US with this information on it published in Scientific American that I just can't find a good link for that showed this information.  It was geared more at plug-in hybrids, but it showed the emission savings from the very clean Texas to the filthy, filthy coal powered northeast.  It's cleaner all around.  Turns out that it's much easier to clean up emissions at a single power station than at a thousand individual cars.
 
2013-02-15 09:00:32 AM

fluffy2097: Notabunny: As the price for all-electric cars drops, demand for charging stations will increase. My guess is that municipalities will then begin buying all-electric cars for their fleets. I think the infrastructure will grow quickly at that point.

Charging a Tesla S with the supercharging system requires 90Kw of power.

That's as much electricity as the average house uses in an entire year.

To charge your car.

If you think quick charging stations are going to stay cheap, or that our electrical grid can handle them without a 100% complete overhaul to double plant and transmission line capacity, you are insane.


You have to get over being sheeple before you can have nice things.
Peak Sheeple Profit says, this is as good as it gets.
 
2013-02-15 09:00:36 AM

maddermaxx: fluffy2097: Notabunny: As the price for all-electric cars drops, demand for charging stations will increase. My guess is that municipalities will then begin buying all-electric cars for their fleets. I think the infrastructure will grow quickly at that point.

Charging a Tesla S with the supercharging system requires 90Kw of power.

That's as much electricity as the average house uses in an entire year.

To charge your car.

If you think quick charging stations are going to stay cheap, or that our electrical grid can handle them without a 100% complete overhaul to double plant and transmission line capacity, you are insane.

Lol, bullshiat much? Average house uses 20kWH per day.


We went over this yesterday with you. You're retarded. Remember?  Power and energy are different.
 
2013-02-15 09:00:38 AM

Thunderpipes: Oh look, a Tesla thread where Farkers worship a car they will never be able to afford.


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand not 2 minutes later:

Thunderpipes: Would get a 650 hp Shelby for less, and have a lot more fun.


Nice job genius.  We don't need to mock you when you own yourself.   WEll done.
 
2013-02-15 09:01:11 AM

fredklein: maddermaxx: And no one cares if a battery on the bottom of your car is a bit shabby, because it's right under your car, you can't see it.

You've never had a Customer Service job, have you? Customers biatch about anything/everything.


Farking THIS x1000.

//CAE for Comcast.
 
2013-02-15 09:01:18 AM
So have we given up on hydrogen fuel cell cars yet?

/Really like hydrogen fuel cell cars.
 
2013-02-15 09:01:43 AM

MyRandomName: But even with solar, how much of U.S. electricity is generated from it.


About 0.17%, as of 2011, per the DOE.
 
2013-02-15 09:02:19 AM

Ebbelwoi: And, if all consumers truly made auto purchase decisions based on their actual needs, we wouldn't have Soccer Moms and other single drivers driving around in behemoth 4WD SUVs whose offroad capabilities will never, ever be utillized.


THIS.  I imagine the people screaming and crying about the range restrictions of driving an electric car are the same people who, when confronted with the efficiency problems of a Hummer, scream and cry about how it's not important because of how "fun" the car is.
 
2013-02-15 09:03:36 AM

mekkab: MyRandomName: Where are these magical electricity trees?

I have a 7.2kw photovoltaic array on my house.  It's as close as you can get. And I wouldn't call it a tree, more of a black-winged angel... (shout out to all y'all Godflesh fans!)

/yes, yes. pollution is shifted to the production of the panels...


It will be really nice when the solar system and the car's battery pack are integrated so that the car's battery
power can feed an inverter to run the home's critical loads when the grid is down.

That way, in an emergency, you can use the car battery to store excess solar power generated during the day, or from a generator run, then run the fridge, well pump, furnace, etc. at night off the car's battery pack until power is restored.
 
2013-02-15 09:04:13 AM

fluffy2097: We went over this yesterday with you. You're retarded. Remember? Power and energy are different.


'We' didn't go over anything, but you're acting like an asshole. It costs less than $10 of power to completely fill a series-S. how much do you spend on power a year? Remember, they charge you at the same rate.
 
2013-02-15 09:04:37 AM

fluffy2097: And yet still nobody talks about the fact it went from a 90 mile range to 25 overnight for no apparent reason, and that loss of range was the only reason the NYT reviewer wasn't able to drive the car like an end user would and make it from whats its fark to Boston on 3 incomplete charges.

The only interesting discrepancy in the data logs and nobody will farking talk about it.


If you follow electric car news or stories, this is not considered much of a discrepancy. Temperature differences cause moderate fluctuations in the battery range. This was one of the reasons Honda has given for the original tests of their electrics only in CA. All of the electric car manufacturers that I'm aware of recommend to always leave the car on trickle charge mode at night to take care of this issue. It would appear that he may not have been aware of this issue with current all-electric vehicles.
 
2013-02-15 09:05:51 AM

Trapper439: Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH

Unless you're on a German autobahn, why would you ever need a car that goes over 60 MPH? Last I heard, there are these things called "speed limits" and electric cars like the Tesla can reach them.

My commiserations about your tiny penis. Have you considered buying a great big fark-off gun to make yourself feel better?


really?  why would you "need" a car that goes over 60 - well because the speed limit is 70 and driving 60 makes me want to smack people.  probably people like you with whirled peace and coexist stickers all over their 1986 subaru.

/dumbass
 
2013-02-15 09:06:11 AM

Tommy Moo: So go buy a Viper.


www.richardhammond.org.uk

The only man who ever liked driving a Viper .... in the world
 
2013-02-15 09:06:50 AM

realityVSperception: That way, in an emergency, you can use the car battery to store excess solar power generated during the day, or from a generator run, then run the fridge, well pump, furnace, etc. at night off the car's battery pack until power is restored.


I believe you already can. The equipment to tie your house into the grid and sync everything up isn't cheap though.  One of the few good things for the power grid about EV's is they can be used while charging as load balancers. If local demand for power is too high, charging EV's can start dumping their power back into the grid to compensate.
 
2013-02-15 09:08:02 AM

maddermaxx: They already have the technology, and it's already in action. Look up Better Place battery swapping.


Looks like they only have things set up in small countries, like Denmark:
"The Gladsaxe station is the first of 20 planned battery switch stations"

20 whole stations. Wow. I'm sure the USA will require a few more than that. There's almost 200,000 gas stations in the US right now, and electric cars have less range, and so need more, closer recharging stations. Setting up a few prototypes is cool and all, but it's a long way from having a working (workable) nationwide system. And having a few stations set up doesn't 'solve' any of the problems I mentioned.
 
2013-02-15 09:09:18 AM

YixilTesiphon: YixilTesiphon: csnake24: NYT is just the propaganda arm of the GOP

Uh, let's try that again.


I see you didn't make a sacrifice to the gods of irony,.
 
2013-02-15 09:10:08 AM

Hotdog453: mekkab: Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH

Hotdog453: verbaltoxin: Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH

Except it's not a super car. It's a sedan.

Whoopee. A 100k+ sedan that you have to drive at 60MPH.

Super trolls at work, here. TAKE NOTES! This is how it is done!


/Totally gonna get one of these
//debating if I need the supercharging option...

I'm genuinely not trying to troll, but if I was going to spend my entire year's income on a car, I'd rather not have to wait 30 minutes every X miles to recharge. I just can't fathom who, beyond the super rich, this car is for.

I'm sure they're fantastic, awesome, incredible vehicles with amazing torque and awesome handling and all of that jazz, but can you honestly imagine owning one in a day to day life, without having a second car? That just seems like such an awkward proposition.


If you lack any vision at all.  Which is probably why Elon makes rocket ships that can travel to the ISS, electric cars that can drive across almost any European country in one charge and PayPal, while you're poo-pooing innovation as being too expensive and impractical.
 
2013-02-15 09:10:35 AM

csnake24: NYT is just the propaganda arm of the GOP (well the less extremist part of the GOP if that still exists).  So of course they're going to do whatever it takes to smear clean energy sources, because it cuts into the profits of big oil.


Heh.  Idiot.
 
2013-02-15 09:10:57 AM

fluffy2097: Notabunny: As the price for all-electric cars drops, demand for charging stations will increase. My guess is that municipalities will then begin buying all-electric cars for their fleets. I think the infrastructure will grow quickly at that point.

Charging a Tesla S with the supercharging system requires 90Kw of power.

That's as much electricity as the average house uses in an entire year.

To charge your car.

If you think quick charging stations are going to stay cheap, or that our electrical grid can handle them without a 100% complete overhaul to double plant and transmission line capacity, you are insane.


You mean the charging stations that have solar panels on them?
 
2013-02-15 09:11:30 AM
Kiwimann: "Apparently the NYT reporter received some really poor advice from a Tesla spokesperson about how much battery charge was required."

And if the NYT reporter had actually topped off the charge when he decided to recharge, particularly on the last leg where he decided to stop charging and try to make it 62 miles when the car said it was only good for 30, he would never have had to call Tesla in the first place.
 
2013-02-15 09:11:33 AM
Came in here to say cue to the trollerific anti EV shills, but alas I'm too late it seems.
 
2013-02-15 09:12:06 AM

Kanemano: Notabunny: Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH

fta Instead, I found myself maneuvering around slower cars. Now, I normally spend most of my time on the New Jersey Turnpike out in the left lane going at least 10 or 15 miles an hour faster than I was in the Model S. But sitting in the middle lane, I was keeping up with traffic. I certainly didn't feel out of place -- except for the fact that I wasn't burning any gasoline.

Is it your point, Kanemano, that he should have been driving 80mph in 60mph traffic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_TurnpikeSpeed limitsThe minimum speed limit for all zones on the Turnpike is 10 mph (16 km/h) below the maximum speed limit. Between the southern terminus and milepost 97.2, the maximum speed limit is 65 mph (105 km/h) with a minimum speed of 55 mph (89 km/h), for example.

In reality, as someone who has driven on the NJ Turnpike, 70 is what the right lane is driving.


In reality, after an hour of driving on a single major highway, your traffic-neighbors are all going about the same speed.  Cause the people who drive 70 pulled ahead, and the people driving 50 fall behind, and you wind up in the pack, going your speed anyway.

Think about it.
 
2013-02-15 09:12:13 AM

fredklein: maddermaxx: They already have the technology, and it's already in action. Look up Better Place battery swapping.

Looks like they only have things set up in small countries, like Denmark:
"The Gladsaxe station is the first of 20 planned battery switch stations"

20 whole stations. Wow. I'm sure the USA will require a few more than that. There's almost 200,000 gas stations in the US right now, and electric cars have less range, and so need more, closer recharging stations. Setting up a few prototypes is cool and all, but it's a long way from having a working (workable) nationwide system. And having a few stations set up doesn't 'solve' any of the problems I mentioned.


All 200,000 stations were built in 1920s?  EV is new how many gas stations were around when the Model Ts came out?  You can kick and scream about technology all you want but gas powered cars are going away.  It might take 10-20 years from now but it is going to happen.
 
2013-02-15 09:12:16 AM

Tat'dGreaser: MayoBoy: Trapper439: Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH

Unless you're on a German autobahn, why would you ever need a car that goes over 60 MPH? Last I heard, there are these things called "speed limits" and electric cars like the Tesla can reach them.

My commiserations about your tiny penis. Have you considered buying a great big fark-off gun to make yourself feel better?

You drive 60 MPH in the left lane too don't you?

Must be from Maryland


Well the right lane is for passing after all
 
2013-02-15 09:13:00 AM

fluffy2097: Notabunny: As the price for all-electric cars drops, demand for charging stations will increase. My guess is that municipalities will then begin buying all-electric cars for their fleets. I think the infrastructure will grow quickly at that point.

Charging a Tesla S with the supercharging system requires 90Kw of power.

That's as much electricity as the average house uses in an entire year.

To charge your car.

If you think quick charging stations are going to stay cheap, or that our electrical grid can handle them without a 100% complete overhaul to double plant and transmission line capacity, you are insane.


Oh hey, this is your new argument?

Truly, your intellect is dizzying, after all you seamlessly moved from this

Zomg!  There aren't enough EVs to support wide spread charging stations!

...to this...

Zomg!  There are so many EVs that hotels will be booby trapping their outlets!

...to this...

zOMG there are going to be so many that our entire electrical grid will collapse!

...oh and a bonus argument of...

zomg!  merchants might charge a user fee for their stations!

Why do you hate capitalism and free markets, no one is buying electric cars thinking it is entirely cost free, it is emissions free which is good.  You are clearly confused, stop changing your arguments so much and maybe you could keep things straight.

REally, dude, if we can hook your arguments up to the electric grid, we wouldn't need to worry about providing enough spinning magnetos to create power.
 
2013-02-15 09:13:06 AM

ringersol: Kiwimann: "Apparently the NYT reporter received some really poor advice from a Tesla spokesperson about how much battery charge was required."

And if the NYT reporter had actually topped off the charge when he decided to recharge, particularly on the last leg where he decided to stop charging and try to make it 62 miles when the car said it was only good for 30, he would never have had to call Tesla in the first place.


yea It's like running out of fuel is suddenly Tesla's fault here, if this had been a good ole fasioned gas guzzler would we be calling ford out because the engine combusted all the gasoline in the tank before the reporter was done trying an impossible distance for what was left?
 
2013-02-15 09:13:09 AM

fredklein: maddermaxx: They already have the technology, and it's already in action. Look up Better Place battery swapping.

Looks like they only have things set up in small countries, like Denmark:
"The Gladsaxe station is the first of 20 planned battery switch stations"

20 whole stations. Wow. I'm sure the USA will require a few more than that. There's almost 200,000 gas stations in the US right now, and electric cars have less range, and so need more, closer recharging stations. Setting up a few prototypes is cool and all, but it's a long way from having a working (workable) nationwide system. And having a few stations set up doesn't 'solve' any of the problems I mentioned.


Yep, it won't be coming to America any time soon, because the investment needed to cover enough places would be astronomical. That's why they're focusing on small countries first, getting the system ready. The thing is, all of those gas stations you go cost a lot of money too, but they weren't all set up in a few years, but over decades and more.
 
2013-02-15 09:13:44 AM

SpdrJay: You know who ELSE tried to smear Tesla???

(it was Edison....)


[iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg]
 
2013-02-15 09:15:00 AM

maddermaxx: fluffy2097: We went over this yesterday with you. You're retarded. Remember? Power and energy are different.

'We' didn't go over anything, but you're acting like an asshole. It costs less than $10 of power to completely fill a series-S. how much do you spend on power a year? Remember, they charge you at the same rate.


http://green.autoblog.com/2009/11/19/greenlings-whats-the-difference -b etween-kw-and-kwh/

Shut up and don't come back until you learn the difference, retard.

Tesla's superchargers run at 400 volts and 200 amps. Most houses run a 200 amp breaker at 110v (or 240 if you use both phases).

I'll let you do the math. If you know, you're capable of it.

Needless to say, if you had a supercharger installed in your home, you'd need the electric company to come out and run entirely new power lines from the poll for it.

Even the home charge systems they use now can require a direct line from the poll. Not everyone wants to be limited to 240v and 30 amps.

Luckily, the slower you charge the thing, the less outrageous a load it is to deal with. Still, a world of all EV's would require the replacement of the countries entire electrical infrastructure.
 
2013-02-15 09:15:41 AM

TNel: That's time for lunch so unless you are eating fast food the time it takes you will mean the car is charged.


Assuming there's a restaurant at which I want to eat lunch that is within walking distance of the charging station. And from the NYT article, I seem to recall at least one of his stops was next to a Chez Mac's.

Carth: The fact your car cost under $30k means you aren't in Telsa's market.


No, the fact that I like to drive long distances without fretting about where my next fillup is coming from and not wanting to spend more than a couple minutes doing it is what means I'm not in Tesla's market. I guess I could sell my car throw in a few $k more, finance the remaining $70k for five years and have like a $1200/month car payment. That's only about $750/month more than what my car payment used to be, so it's not like the car isn't unaffordable. It just doesn't seem worth it (to me) to pay a lot more money for an inferior ride. Again, I'm glad other people find it worthwhile. In the pantheon of stupid shiat upon which the wealthy can waste their money, it's not that offensive, provides some jobs, possibly helps the environment, and may pave the way for development of electric cars that are actually useful.
 
2013-02-15 09:16:24 AM
Tesla is targeting BMW and Mercedes demographics with this sedan.  They have priced the base model (160 mile range) squarely in the ballpark of that demographic.  A BMW 5 series with no options starts around $50k, the tesla S starts at $53k.

Basically, if you were going to buy a BMW or a Mercedes for your daily work commute, then the Tesla S absolutely makes sense to at least consider.  Most people in this demographic have more than one vehicle per household, and the other vehicle is usually a luxury car as well.
 
2013-02-15 09:16:50 AM

asmodeus224: Why do you hate capitalism and free markets, no one is buying electric cars thinking it is entirely cost free, it is emissions free which is good.  You are clearly confused, stop changing your arguments so much and maybe you could keep things straight.


THIS.  I've never seen people so personally invested in convincing  other people to not buy a particular car.  I don't understand the motivation.  And if all the haters can come up with are blatant lies and misinformation like  fluffy2097 and this NYT reporter, it's clear that they've got no good reason.
 
2013-02-15 09:18:36 AM

fluffy2097: maddermaxx: fluffy2097: We went over this yesterday with you. You're retarded. Remember? Power and energy are different.

'We' didn't go over anything, but you're acting like an asshole. It costs less than $10 of power to completely fill a series-S. how much do you spend on power a year? Remember, they charge you at the same rate.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/11/19/greenlings-whats-the-difference -b etween-kw-and-kwh/

Shut up and don't come back until you learn the difference, retard.

Tesla's superchargers run at 400 volts and 200 amps. Most houses run a 200 amp breaker at 110v (or 240 if you use both phases).

I'll let you do the math. If you know, you're capable of it.

Needless to say, if you had a supercharger installed in your home, you'd need the electric company to come out and run entirely new power lines from the poll for it.

Even the home charge systems they use now can require a direct line from the poll. Not everyone wants to be limited to 240v and 30 amps.

Luckily, the slower you charge the thing, the less outrageous a load it is to deal with. Still, a world of all EV's would require the replacement of the countries entire electrical infrastructure.


No it wouldn't require "replacement of the countries entire electrical infrastructure" but would require significant modernization, which has been overdue (with or without EV) for the last 20 years. It's OK, you can keep trying though.
 
2013-02-15 09:19:08 AM

MmmmBacon: The douchebag from the NYT did a hatchetjob smear article on the Tesla, and he got caught. Should have realized that the cars' computer would track enough information to debunk his claims, especially with GPS. Whoops! This new report just verifies Tesla's data.

NYT disavows and fires reporter in 3... 2... 1...


This. People too stupid to know what a computer logger is shouldn't be working as reporters.
 
2013-02-15 09:19:27 AM

Greek: Prank Call of Cthulhu: Hotdog453: verbaltoxin: Kanemano: Whoopee a $100K +super car that you have to drive at 60 MPH

Except it's not a super car. It's a sedan.

Whoopee. A 100k+ sedan that you have to drive at 60MPH.

And you have to spend an hour "refueling."

$100k supercar is a piece of crap. That's just what I want to do when I drive, constantly worry if I can make it to the next recharging station and then spend an hour cooling my heels. Who the fark would be retarded enough to buy one of these?

You DO realize that you're basically saying what people in the late 1800s did about gasoline- powered cars, right? This is how new technology is- the early ones have limitations, and are stupid expensive. Then, as the companies recoup their initial investment, the price drops and the limitations start disappearing.

Or are we still using 8- bit computers that run at 1 MHz, have 128k of RAM, and cost the equivalent of $3,000 in today's dollars? I also remember that Apple had a 10 MB hard drive back in 1985.It was called the Sider. (because it sat on the side, and was an apple. har har.) Anyhow, that thing was about the size of a cinder block and cost $700- about $1400 or so in today's dollars.

My point is that these things will get better and cheaper. Give it some time.


Apples first hard drive it offered was in the early 80s it was called the profile, it retailed for 3500 bucks.

The Sider was not an Apple branded product, it was by First Class Peripherals, and it did cost around 700.  As well as Corvus made a great drive for less money, but Apple branded hard drives and modems were always insanely costly.
 
2013-02-15 09:21:12 AM

fredklein: maddermaxx: They already have the technology, and it's already in action. Look up Better Place battery swapping.

Looks like they only have things set up in small countries, like Denmark:
"The Gladsaxe station is the first of 20 planned battery switch stations"

20 whole stations. Wow. I'm sure the USA will require a few more than that. There's almost 200,000 gas stations in the US right now, and electric cars have less range, and so need more, closer recharging stations. Setting up a few prototypes is cool and all, but it's a long way from having a working (workable) nationwide system. And having a few stations set up doesn't 'solve' any of the problems I mentioned.


You would probably require less dedicated stations - unlike gas vehicles, electrics can be recharged at home. Much less need for stations everywhere when the majority of vehicles start out with a full charge every morning.
 
2013-02-15 09:21:34 AM

enry: You mean the charging stations that have solar panels on them?


So they don't work on cloudy days? Cute, but they are still running as part of the grid. It's just when they aren't charging cars, they're making money for the station owners by feeding power back into the grid. (It's probably the only reason service stations agreed to install them to begin with, they get a free solar install)

Once you've got 3 or 4 cars there constantly charging, those solar panels will not be enough.
 
2013-02-15 09:22:29 AM
The New York Times hasn't endorsed a Republican president since Dwight Eisenhower.

I'd hardly call it a right wing newspaper.
 
2013-02-15 09:22:33 AM
There are a lot of things that just doesn't add up for me in Broder's account of the trip. Broder explained that when he was circling a parking lot at the Milford Service Plaza, he was only actually looking for the Supercharger station.

Here's a picture of the Milford Service Plaza:

i1212.photobucket.com

As you can see, the parking lot is tiny. I measured a full circuit on Google Maps and it's only about  0.14 miles to make a complete loop around. I don't know why he would have to drive .6 miles to find the Tesla Superchargers, which are literally right in front of the McDonald's and facing the entrance ramp.

Also, the Tesla Superchargers are not exactly inconspicuous - they're huge shiny white obelisks parked in front 2 of the best parking spots in the lot. Even at night, you can't miss them.

graphics8.nytimes.com
 
2013-02-15 09:23:08 AM

trialpha: Much less need for stations everywhere when the majority of vehicles start out with a full charge every morning.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-15 09:23:13 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: TNel: That's time for lunch so unless you are eating fast food the time it takes you will mean the car is charged.

Assuming there's a restaurant at which I want to eat lunch that is within walking distance of the charging station. And from the NYT article, I seem to recall at least one of his stops was next to a Chez Mac's.

Carth: The fact your car cost under $30k means you aren't in Telsa's market.

No, the fact that I like to drive long distances without fretting about where my next fillup is coming from and not wanting to spend more than a couple minutes doing it is what means I'm not in Tesla's market. I guess I could sell my car throw in a few $k more, finance the remaining $70k for five years and have like a $1200/month car payment. That's only about $750/month more than what my car payment used to be, so it's not like the car isn't unaffordable. It just doesn't seem worth it (to me) to pay a lot more money for an inferior ride. Again, I'm glad other people find it worthwhile. In the pantheon of stupid shiat upon which the wealthy can waste their money, it's not that offensive, provides some jobs, possibly helps the environment, and may pave the way for development of electric cars that are actually useful.


It is not bug free nor without its shortcomings...you are 100% right.  I have you favorited because you are not an idiot and you have shown yourself worthy yet again.  My 'THIS' is bolded up there.  Tesla are providing for exactly how this has to happen...the car has to be directed at wealthy-ish people who see it as a luxury toy or who like cutting edge tech (or who are trying to support a green cause with their purchases), and the infrastructure that gets built on these cars will top down a lot of charging stations while hybrid that plug into home plugs will bottom up the tech for us poorer schlubs.

Oil companies are not happy that refueling at homes and resturaunts will cut into their grub-n-gas hubs, but i won't miss those oversized gas and convenience stores that draw traffic and noise at all hours.  Go EVs!
 
2013-02-15 09:23:13 AM

fluffy2097: maddermaxx: fluffy2097: We went over this yesterday with you. You're retarded. Remember? Power and energy are different.

'We' didn't go over anything, but you're acting like an asshole. It costs less than $10 of power to completely fill a series-S. how much do you spend on power a year? Remember, they charge you at the same rate.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/11/19/greenlings-whats-the-difference -b etween-kw-and-kwh/

Shut up and don't come back until you learn the difference, retard.

Tesla's superchargers run at 400 volts and 200 amps. Most houses run a 200 amp breaker at 110v (or 240 if you use both phases).

I'll let you do the math. If you know, you're capable of it.

Needless to say, if you had a supercharger installed in your home, you'd need the electric company to come out and run entirely new power lines from the poll for it.

Even the home charge systems they use now can require a direct line from the poll. Not everyone wants to be limited to 240v and 30 amps.

Luckily, the slower you charge the thing, the less outrageous a load it is to deal with. Still, a world of all EV's would require the replacement of the countries entire electrical infrastructure.


Charging a Tesla S with the supercharging system requires 90Kw of power.

That's as much electricity as the average house uses in an entire year.

To charge your car.


Fark, I just realised I'm getting trolled. Going on about how much a house 'uses in a year' but then saying you don't mean kWH but just kWs, and then linking to a post which explains why you're an idiot... lol.
 
2013-02-15 09:24:26 AM

csnake24: NYT is just the propaganda arm of the GOP (well the less extremist part of the GOP if that still exists).  So of course they're going to do whatever it takes to smear clean energy sources, because it cuts into the profits of big oil.


Utterly false. Cutting usage of oil only hurts the government, because they make far more money off gas taxes than the oil companies make. Oil companies are really energy companies, most electricity comes from coal and the same people are going to profit no matter what kind of energy you use.
 
2013-02-15 09:24:57 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: TNel: That's time for lunch so unless you are eating fast food the time it takes you will mean the car is charged.

Assuming there's a restaurant at which I want to eat lunch that is within walking distance of the charging station. And from the NYT article, I seem to recall at least one of his stops was next to a Chez Mac's.

Carth: The fact your car cost under $30k means you aren't in Telsa's market.

No, the fact that I like to drive long distances without fretting about where my next fillup is coming from and not wanting to spend more than a couple minutes doing it is what means I'm not in Tesla's market. I guess I could sell my car throw in a few $k more, finance the remaining $70k for five years and have like a $1200/month car payment. That's only about $750/month more than what my car payment used to be, so it's not like the car isn't unaffordable. It just doesn't seem worth it (to me) to pay a lot more money for an inferior ride. Again, I'm glad other people find it worthwhile. In the pantheon of stupid shiat upon which the wealthy can waste their money, it's not that offensive, provides some jobs, possibly helps the environment, and may pave the way for development of electric cars that are actually useful.


I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that owns a Tesla that doesn't have at least one other car. You want to go for a long drive some weekend? Great, take your Lexus LS 600h . Going on your daily commute? Take the Tesla and never have to worry about stopping at a gas station.

If you have to finance more than half the cost of car you can't afford it.
 
2013-02-15 09:25:23 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: THIS. I've never seen people so personally invested in convincing other people to not buy a particular car.


When have I said it's a bad car? Or people shouldn't buy it?

I'm pointing out flaws in the idea that

"OMG EV'S WILL SAVE THE WORLD AND WE WON'T HAVE TO DO A THING THEY'RE SO WONDERFUL SQUEEEEEEEEEE"

Because there's kind of a circle jerk about that going on here and it's important we think about many things, like fact that replacing all of America's cars with EV's, or even half of them, would require a multi trillion dollar investment in our power grid.

/you farks are worse then apple tards.
 
2013-02-15 09:25:46 AM
So basically, we have a $100,000 pretty POS
in a perfect world this car should be able to go blah miles if you drive under the speed limit
I have lots of money and I'm a complete nincompoop
my god, this thing is perfect!

electric vehicles have been around since 1839
this is the best science can offer?
 
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