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(Gawker)   Apparently some people question how a fire could burn a human body beyond recognition while leaving a perfectly intact drivers license handily available. Fark: The third copy of the license found in a week   (gawker.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Christopher Dorner, diplomatic recognition, Lindbergh Field, conspiracy theorists  
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20259 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2013 at 12:27 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



277 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-02-14 09:14:34 AM  
www.fongvisioncenter.com
 
2013-02-14 09:23:01 AM  
i42.tinypic.com
 
2013-02-14 10:28:44 AM  
americanradioworks.publicradio.org
 
2013-02-14 10:57:35 AM  
Third copy I can't explain but if had been laying on his back on the floor when the fire started and the wallet was in his pocket, yes it would have survived intact.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-02-14 10:58:09 AM  
It's funny how these carefully scripted conspiracies always involve really careless oversights like multiple wallets and phony shooting victim photographs.

At least we know that reporters never make lazy mistakes so obviously it's a conspiracy between Obama, the Israelis and the sekrit muslins.

Oh, and the UN too.
 
2013-02-14 11:19:38 AM  
Sounds like a job for Mulder and Scully.

*spooky music*
 
2013-02-14 11:24:40 AM  

vpb: It's funny how these carefully scripted conspiracies always involve really careless oversights like multiple wallets and phony shooting victim photographs.


www.trbimg.com

Yeah, photoshopped and obviously fake.
 
2013-02-14 12:04:22 PM  

cretinbob: Third copy I can't explain but if had been laying on his back on the floor when the fire started and the wallet was in his pocket, yes it would have survived intact.


Well, that would explain why he first laid down before shooting himself (a well known suicide technique)

He wouldn't want to take the risk that if he was standing that when his body crumpled to the floor, that his wallet would have been at risk of burning. He probably also had some frequent buyer cards (jamba juice?) that he didn't want to ruin.
 
2013-02-14 12:09:14 PM  
cdn.fd.uproxx.com
 
2013-02-14 12:10:48 PM  
Or there's the possibility that the wallet skeptics have found the one flaw in a carefully scripted police conspiracy, and that the police made a conscious decision to lie to everyone about finding Dorner's wallet in multiple places, in an effort to...well, it's not clear why the police would do that. General mayhem?

Cover up the fact that Dorner's body wasn't found in the cabin?

I tend to believe it was Dorner in the cabin tho, with or without the ID.  The other possibilities are that: a) it is someone else's body in the cabin, b) no body was found in the cabin.  The ID thing doesn't really exculpate the police from intentionally burning the cabin down.
 
2013-02-14 12:28:24 PM  
Dorner got cornered.
 
2013-02-14 12:30:13 PM  
From the comments

"I try not to be too tinfoil, but burning is really convenient since nobody can eyeball and identify the body that way. It's more important for the LAPD to publicly be seen to kill Dorner than for them to ACTUALLY kill Dorner. Think about it."


WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again. How the hell would it profit the LAPD to fake his death?
 
2013-02-14 12:30:49 PM  
All police carry fire proof licenses. Everyone knows that.
 
2013-02-14 12:31:33 PM  
I'm confused... so NOW the big conspiracy is that the LAPD has faked this guys death to help him escape? I mean, if that isn't the case, all this guy would have to do to take down the department is pop up alive some place. I'm not sure what this particular piece of conspiracy theory would accomplish for the participants.
 
2013-02-14 12:31:46 PM  

SlothB77: Or there's the possibility that the wallet skeptics have found the one flaw in a carefully scripted police conspiracy, and that the police made a conscious decision to lie to everyone about finding Dorner's wallet in multiple places, in an effort to...well, it's not clear why the police would do that. General mayhem?

Cover up the fact that Dorner's body wasn't found in the cabin?

I tend to believe it was Dorner in the cabin tho, with or without the ID.  The other possibilities are that: a) it is someone else's body in the cabin, b) no body was found in the cabin.  The ID thing doesn't really exculpate the police from intentionally burning the cabin down.


But it does now allow LAPD to hunt Dorner down & kill him without press coverage or overt observation. "Yeah, that was Dorner - we found his ID. You can stop covering the story now. Go home. Move along. Move along."
 
2013-02-14 12:31:49 PM  
Because murder.
 
2013-02-14 12:32:20 PM  
This guy was standing up the jackboots of Obama's tyranny so had him silenced!
 
2013-02-14 12:32:45 PM  
Guy was a crazy and dangerous and I certainly hope he's dead.........but......it would be kind of awesome in a Rambo'ish way if he had stashed a body up there and started the fire for just such an escape
 
2013-02-14 12:32:59 PM  

Captain Darling: From the comments

"I try not to be too tinfoil, but burning is really convenient since nobody can eyeball and identify the body that way. It's more important for the LAPD to publicly be seen to kill Dorner than for them to ACTUALLY kill Dorner. Think about it."


WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again. How the hell would it profit the LAPD to fake his death?


And better:
He really thinks we can't identify a burnt body?
 
2013-02-14 12:33:34 PM  
ts3.mm.bing.net
How they ID'd him.
 
2013-02-14 12:33:59 PM  

Surool: I'm confused... so NOW the big conspiracy is that the LAPD has faked this guys death to help him escape?


Conspiracy theorists are a funny bunch.
 
2013-02-14 12:34:02 PM  
Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.
 
2013-02-14 12:34:43 PM  

Deep Contact: All police carry fire proof licenses. Everyone knows that.


They also have a serrated edge, and in a pinch can act as a church key.
 
2013-02-14 12:36:03 PM  
This whole thing is strange. I'm waiting for the coroner, a maybe even a little more evidence, like no more shootings in the next week.
 
2013-02-14 12:37:18 PM  

Captain Darling: From the comments

"I try not to be too tinfoil, but burning is really convenient since nobody can eyeball and identify the body that way. It's more important for the LAPD to publicly be seen to kill Dorner than for them to ACTUALLY kill Dorner. Think about it."


WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again. How the hell would it profit the LAPD to fake his death?


What if the officers involved were sympathizers or agreed with... I can't finish this.
 
2013-02-14 12:37:41 PM  
It's driver license, not drivers license.
 
2013-02-14 12:37:56 PM  
On 9/11 the government claimed one of the highjackers paasports was found in the debri of the trade centers. Farkers defended that.
 
2013-02-14 12:39:30 PM  
What if it was a body who was burned (like in Fletch) and they planted his license on the body to give the cops the slip?
Long enough to get to Mexico.
 
2013-02-14 12:39:43 PM  

Deep Contact: All police carry fire proof licenses. Everyone knows that.


They also carry throw-down evidence for when they need it
 
2013-02-14 12:39:52 PM  
Okay class, who didn't get the memo that cop killers are going to die when the cops catch up to them? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
 
2013-02-14 12:40:13 PM  
So..... There's still a chance?
 
2013-02-14 12:40:45 PM  
 
2013-02-14 12:40:48 PM  
Is such a thing even possbile?

3.bp.blogspot.com

And  the answer is YES!
 
2013-02-14 12:41:40 PM  

cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.



No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".
 
2013-02-14 12:41:43 PM  
i25.photobucket.com

Looks legit to me.
 
2013-02-14 12:42:10 PM  

cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


"I'm 007243911, and I have a license to drive."
 
2013-02-14 12:43:15 PM  

Captain Darling: WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again.


No he wouldn't.  He gets a free pass if everyone thinks he's dead:  The police won't be looking for him, he won't be on "America's Most Wanted" or whatever, and people who see him, if they do recognize him, will merely shrug and say "Hey, he looks like that guy that got killed" to themselves.

That would give him time to plan out how he'll kill his other targets, oh, and they wouldn't be protected because there isn't a threat anymore.

Having said all that,

img176.imageshack.us

He's dead, Jim.
 
2013-02-14 12:43:19 PM  
content9.flixster.com
 
2013-02-14 12:43:58 PM  
Same way they found a passport for the guy who flew into WTC.

Magic lamination.
 
2013-02-14 12:44:30 PM  
What a waste of conspiracy effort.  Who says a psycho didn't have multiple IDs, say a couple of credit cards left in a jacket he left behind while eluding police, a driver's license left somewhere else for the same reasons, and finally the bulk of his wallet with his old police ID passport at the final location?

And a body "burned beyond recognition" might simply be a melted head, but a portion of the body intact covering the final wallet.  It's not like the human body instantly degrades and self-immolates like a Fourth of July snake.
 
2013-02-14 12:44:38 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.


He shot pigs, not innocent people.
 
2013-02-14 12:44:46 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.


I dunno if they have released any other photos from the burnt out cabin but the one I seen looked like everything burnt up.  There was literally nothing left but ash.  Now I know things dont burn like a lot of people think they do.  I had to burn a lot of T.O. T.M. in teh military.  Them thick books wouldnt burn unless you took 1-2 pages out at a time and burnt them like that. 
Just saying this shiat doesnt really add up the way the police are saying.
 
2013-02-14 12:45:20 PM  
I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose. To keep it from going to trial and letting him accuse them of a bunch of stuff and drag the whole thing out.
 
2013-02-14 12:45:24 PM  

rtaylor92: Guy was a crazy and dangerous and I certainly hope he's dead.........but......it would be kind of awesome in a Rambo'ish way if he had stashed a body up there and started the fire for just such an escape


Then they find the excavated tunnel he made under the cabin where he is holed up for a month.
 
2013-02-14 12:46:01 PM  

Stone Meadow: Okay class, who didn't get the memo that cop killers are going to die

become the victims of first degree, premeditated murder when the cops catch up to them? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

FTFY
 
2013-02-14 12:46:16 PM  

Surool: I'm confused... so NOW the big conspiracy is that the LAPD has faked this guys death to help him escape? I mean, if that isn't the case, all this guy would have to do to take down the department is pop up alive some place. I'm not sure what this particular piece of conspiracy theory would accomplish for the participants.


I think if they faked his death, it would be to cover up letting him escape and watching the place burn while someone else(Or maybe nobody) was inside, it would explain why they are waiting so long to positively ID the body. If he pops up again, they make up a story. If he decides to lay low they continue with the 'He's dead, Jim.' line.

It's a weird situation. You have cops firing upon two completely unrelated vehicles that only look similar because they are the same type of vehicle(A truck). They shoot up both of these vehicles with no warning whatsoever, and the drivers look nothing like the suspect. Next, you have this guy who supposedly went on this well-planned spree getting as far as Big Bear, setting his truck on fire, then just hanging out for 5 days? At the end, it's two days later, and there is no real clear story on what happened, including the identity of the body. On top of that, the police suddenly impose a media blackout and try to get people to stop reporting anything on Twitter. Add in the multiple accounts of absolutely, positively finding his wallet AND ID on 3 separate occasions, and it's easy to understand why people are questioning this one.

With the LAPD being known for corruption, lying and incompetence, it's really a no-brainer to question the official story. It's almost guaranteed that some part of it is completely fabricated.
 
2013-02-14 12:46:52 PM  

Oerath: I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose. To keep it from going to trial and letting him accuse them of a bunch of stuff and drag the whole thing out.


Or to kill him because they were pissed and retaliating.
 
2013-02-14 12:47:01 PM  
You can apply for your license and claim it got lost in the mail. They will send you a duplicate. It's pretty easy.
 
2013-02-14 12:47:22 PM  
To answer the author, I could see the police lying about finding an ID in various places to make it seem like they are indeed on the trail.
 
2013-02-14 12:47:26 PM  
Easy. He had a Costanza wallet. That baby was so insulated and packed tight it burned slow like an cigar
 
2013-02-14 12:47:38 PM  

Captain Darling: From the comments

"I try not to be too tinfoil, but burning is really convenient since nobody can eyeball and identify the body that way. It's more important for the LAPD to publicly be seen to kill Dorner than for them to ACTUALLY kill Dorner. Think about it."


WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again. How the hell would it profit the LAPD to fake his death?


Well, if you wanted to go full out Reynolds Wrap, you could say that Dorner planted the wallet there on his way out of the cabin, having first killed a guy about his size. If his plan is to make LE look like evil, murderous, jack-booted thugs (SUCCESS!) what better way than to make it look as if the idiots had burned an innocent man alive in a horrible overzealous case of mistaken identity.

No I don't actually believe this, but if we're using the heavy duty foil today...

I do, however, want an independent ME conducting the autopsy/ID. And an accurate wallet count.
 
2013-02-14 12:47:45 PM  

Rapmaster2000: This guy was standing up the jackboots of Obama's tyranny so had him silenced!


But he was an Obama supporter, also for gun control.  He was just particular about the form of jackbooted tyranny he wanted
 
2013-02-14 12:48:12 PM  

Surool: I'm confused... so NOW the big conspiracy is that the LAPD has faked this guys death to help him escape? I mean, if that isn't the case, all this guy would have to do to take down the department is pop up alive some place. I'm not sure what this particular piece of conspiracy theory would accomplish for the participants.


I believe the thinking is this:  The police would be embarrassed if it became public knowledge that the person who was killed in the fire was *NOT* Chris Dorner, therefore they are going to identify the body as him, even if it isn't.  Local cops on the scene wouldn't be able to tell anyway, just looking at crispy critter-type remains.

I don't agree with it, I think they got Dorner,  but I can see the logic there.
 
2013-02-14 12:48:17 PM  

fickenchucker: What a waste of conspiracy effort.  Who says a psycho didn't have multiple IDs, say a couple of credit cards left in a jacket he left behind while eluding police, a driver's license left somewhere else for the same reasons, and finally the bulk of his wallet with his old police ID passport at the final location?

And a body "burned beyond recognition" might simply be a melted head, but a portion of the body intact covering the final wallet.  It's not like the human body instantly degrades and self-immolates like a Fourth of July snake.


If you're planning to go on the run, why would you have multiple IDs in your own name, the one you would have already burned? You make multiple IDs in different names, not the same one. Also, the DMV doesn't let you keep your old license when they issue a new one.
 
2013-02-14 12:48:58 PM  

Snarfangel: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.

"I'm 007243911, and I have a license to drive."


No, Meester Bond, I expect you to MERGE!
 
2013-02-14 12:49:07 PM  
img842.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-14 12:49:08 PM  
Captain Darling:
From the comments

"I try not to be too tinfoil, but burning is really convenient since nobody can eyeball and identify the body that way. It's more important for the LAPD to publicly be seen to kill Dorner than for them to ACTUALLY kill Dorner. Think about it."


WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again. How the hell would it profit the LAPD to fake his death?


He was actually caught alive earlier, somewhere else, and killed execution style to prevent him spilling some departmental beans at his trial.  Then they planted a dead hobo with his ID in the cabin to fake his death there.  This theory requires a massive cover-up involving numerous officers at multiple levels in the LAPD, as well as collusion from the medical examiner etc., so I don't really think it's very credible.
 
2013-02-14 12:49:21 PM  
Not sure you have to be a "truther" to see that something doesn't add up here. Now, if you want to speculate and conclude that Dorner was actually an alien and is now living in Cleveland under an alias and with a sex change, that's going a bit far. But merely noticing the discrepancy and raising an eyebrow doesn't make you paranoid or shrill or anything else connoted by "truther".
 
2013-02-14 12:49:21 PM  

fickenchucker: It's not like the human body instantly degrades and self-immolates like a Fourth of July snake.


It is if you do it right.
 
2013-02-14 12:49:49 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: cretinbob: Third copy I can't explain but if had been laying on his back on the floor when the fire started and the wallet was in his pocket, yes it would have survived intact.

Well, that would explain why he first laid down before shooting himself (a well known suicide technique)

He wouldn't want to take the risk that if he was standing that when his body crumpled to the floor, that his wallet would have been at risk of burning. He probably also had some frequent buyer cards (jamba juice?) that he didn't want to ruin.


Could have had a Plan B of life insurance in case his felonious plan failed? I can't find mention of any kids, but he did have a mother.

I keep meaning to buy life insurance but spend my money on booze instead. Perhaps some Farkers could take up a collection to pay premiums and in exchange be beneficiaries? My sister's family doesn't need the money but maybe a struggling parent out there could gain by my eventual demise. (Just because I've survived some terrible & stupid shiat doesn't mean I'll NEVER die.) BIE. EIP.

I'm kind of disappointed the case is over already. And, though I understand the rationale, I'm dismayed that he killed his enemy's daughter and her boyfriend instead of a more reasonable target; on the other hand it seems they died pretty quickly and there are ~5 billion too many people on Earth already so I'm not bent out of shape about it. It's just that there are so few heroes out there anymore and I was hoping Dorner would be a black super-Rambo.

Still, maybe some radical-fringers out there will name a Liberation Front after him. It's not like there were ever any revolutionary saints with completely blameless lives: even Jesus pissed off a bunch of money-changers who were only trying to make an honest living.
 
2013-02-14 12:51:40 PM  
How fat was he?
 
2013-02-14 12:51:49 PM  
Even more curious is they still haven't found his long form drivers license. What is Dorner hiding?
 
2013-02-14 12:51:54 PM  
<b>Bit'O'Gristle</b>
<i>... So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people. </i>

Truth doesn't become lies just because you learned to hate the speaker.
 
2013-02-14 12:52:08 PM  

Oerath: I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose. To keep it from going to trial and letting him accuse them of a bunch of stuff and drag the whole thing out.


He had already made his accusations and they were well documented. Him being dead changes nothing.
 
2013-02-14 12:52:37 PM  

DrPainMD: Stone Meadow: Okay class, who didn't get the memo that cop killers are going to die become the victims of first degree, premeditated murder when the cops catch up to them? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

FTFY


twimg0-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-02-14 12:53:05 PM  

hasty ambush: Rapmaster2000: This guy was standing up the jackboots of Obama's tyranny so had him silenced!

But he was an Obama supporter, also for gun control.  He was just particular about the form of jackbooted tyranny he wanted


Yeah, that's what THEY want you to believe.
 
2013-02-14 12:53:19 PM  
i272.photobucket.com

NOT POSSIBLE!!!!

/wrong thread?
 
2013-02-14 12:53:24 PM  
I actually have a feeling this guy isn't dead. It's not as far-fetched as 9/11 or the birther's movement. The guy has military AND law enforcement experience, and knows exactly how they're going to operate. What better way to get some heat to die down than for your pursuers to think you're dead? Crazy may be crazy, but crazy is very smart, too.
 
2013-02-14 12:53:31 PM  

cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


Driver's. Possessive apostrophe.
 
2013-02-14 12:55:06 PM  

Sandwyrm: <b>Bit'O'Gristle</b>
<i>... So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people. </i>

Truth doesn't become lies just because you learned to hate the speaker.


Whatever he said about the department doesn't suddenly justify murder.
 
2013-02-14 12:55:36 PM  

the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".


Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

icenter.ucsd.edu
 
2013-02-14 12:56:27 PM  

Mikey1969: You have cops firing upon two completely unrelated vehicles that only look similar because they are the same type of vehicle(A truck). They shoot up both of these vehicles with no warning whatsoever, and the drivers look nothing like the suspect.


Based upon that behavior alone, Dorner may have had a valid self-defense argument against the cops he killed later on:  It's plain that they weren't going to give him the opportunity to surrender peacefully, and indeed, subsequent events show that do be true.  Wouldn't matter if he walked out with his hands up, the slightest movement on his part would have resulted in his being shot dead.   No opportunity for him to avail himself of due process.

Of course, the situation was entirely of his making, but it's still unacceptable behavior on the part of the police forces involved.  Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
2013-02-14 12:56:59 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Surool: I'm confused... so NOW the big conspiracy is that the LAPD has faked this guys death to help him escape?

Conspiracy theorists are a funny bunch.


I think the theory is that he escaped and they're covering that up
 
2013-02-14 12:57:15 PM  

SkylineRecords: I actually have a feeling this guy isn't dead. It's not as far-fetched as 9/11 or the birther's movement. The guy has military AND law enforcement experience, and knows exactly how they're going to operate. What better way to get some heat to die down than for your pursuers to think you're dead? Crazy may be crazy, but crazy is very smart, too.


I would be inclined to agree with you if in fact they did not have a shoot out with a guy who they cornered in the cabin which they covered all of the entrances and set up road check points in the surrounding area. So what, he paid someone who happens to look like him to shoot at the cops, run inside, and kill himself? He had dug a 2 mile long tunnel that once inside the cabin, he was able to walk through to his get away car with a disguise in it?
 
2013-02-14 12:57:42 PM  

amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]


Huh. NY as well. Who knew?
 
2013-02-14 12:57:46 PM  

The One True TheDavid: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.

Driver's. Possessive apostrophe.



No, it's Driver License.  No s, no apostrophe.  Check the California DMV site

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/home/dmv.htm
 
2013-02-14 12:58:26 PM  

SkylineRecords: I actually have a feeling this guy isn't dead. It's not as far-fetched as 9/11 or the birther's movement. The guy has military AND law enforcement experience, and knows exactly how they're going to operate. What better way to get some heat to die down than for your pursuers to think you're dead? Crazy may be crazy, but crazy is very smart, too.


Plus the guy is seeped in pop culture. So much so he probably thinks that stuff in the movies would work and give it a try: Kill some homeless guy who fits the basic characteristics, plant evidence, burn down cabin and try to sneak out during the chaos.

I don't believe the cops would fake it.  This is personal, not some quick murder they want off the books.  They aren't about to let Dorner live free by faking his death so they can close the case.
 
2013-02-14 12:58:53 PM  
At this point, if the LAPD said that the sky was blue, I'd go running outside to see if the sky had turned red.  It's as if the Keystone Cops have been given loaded guns.
 
2013-02-14 12:59:32 PM  

MFAWG: Popcorn Johnny: Surool: I'm confused... so NOW the big conspiracy is that the LAPD has faked this guys death to help him escape?

Conspiracy theorists are a funny bunch.

I think the theory is that he escaped and they're covering that up


That is an ENORMOUS gamble. If he showed up anywhere, it would be like the Huck Finn funeral. I don't think they would gamble on that. They would be much better off saying he escaped after shooting two of their officers.
 
2013-02-14 12:59:49 PM  

No Such Agency: Captain Darling:
From the comments

"I try not to be too tinfoil, but burning is really convenient since nobody can eyeball and identify the body that way. It's more important for the LAPD to publicly be seen to kill Dorner than for them to ACTUALLY kill Dorner. Think about it."


WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again. How the hell would it profit the LAPD to fake his death?

He was actually caught alive earlier, somewhere else, and killed execution style to prevent him spilling some departmental beans at his trial.  Then they planted a dead hobo with his ID in the cabin to fake his death there.  This theory requires a massive cover-up involving numerous officers at multiple levels in the LAPD, as well as collusion from the medical examiner etc., so I don't really think it's very credible.


Why not just plant the dead Dorner in the cabin?
 
2013-02-14 01:00:19 PM  

namegoeshere: amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]

Huh. NY as well. Who knew?


I knew
 
2013-02-14 01:01:27 PM  
How about this: guy in the cabin wasn't Dorner after all, and after the last few cases of mistaken identity on the LAPD's part, they decided that having one cop killer on the loose but too scared to kill any more cops right away would be more acceptable than admitting they screwed up yet again, and this time killed an innocent man in the most painful way imaginable. So the cops on the scene use their knowledge of forensics to ensure the body is completely unidentifiable except by a '"throw down" id, and otherwise go through the motions of doing their duty.

/or may be they actually got Dorner, but like the OJ case, decided some "extra evidence" needed to be introduced
//when the whole city is dependent on Hollywood to generate money, don't be surprised when everything is carefully staged
 
2013-02-14 01:01:54 PM  
Satanic_Hamster:

He really thinks we can't identify a burnt body?

It'll take a while. So if that was his plan he could have made it work long enough to get away. Remember the secret tunnel in The Thing? Still doubt it though, dammit.

As for police complicity, I learned from TV that cops all over hate anybody who kills a cop, even an ex-cop like him, so they'd be much less likely to let him live if they could do anything about it. And not only cops: it'd be open season on him all over the lower 48 at least, kill this guy and become an instant hero. You know, like Christopher Scarver.
 
2013-02-14 01:02:29 PM  

MFAWG: Popcorn Johnny: Surool: I'm confused... so NOW the big conspiracy is that the LAPD has faked this guys death to help him escape?

Conspiracy theorists are a funny bunch.

I think the theory is that he escaped and they're covering that up


...and the rest of my post pointed out that all he would have to do to completely destroy the department is be caught (or found) alive. That's why I said the idea of him being alive makes no sense.
 
2013-02-14 01:03:03 PM  

SkylineRecords: I actually have a feeling this guy isn't dead. It's not as far-fetched as 9/11 or the birther's movement. The guy has military AND law enforcement experience, and knows exactly how they're going to operate. What better way to get some heat to die down than for your pursuers to think you're dead? Crazy may be crazy, but crazy is very smart, too.


This.

i262.photobucket.com
Has anyone checked the back entrance to the mine?
 
2013-02-14 01:03:10 PM  

mizchief: It probably is just media screwing  up, but we deserve to know the truth of how this happens and the news agency held accountable for reporting false information.


You wanna know how it happens?

Money.

You see, news agencies are funded by advertising.  If a particular news agency can show higher ratings than its competitors, it can charge more money per unit of advertising.  In the news business, you get ratings by being the first with information.  It doesn't really seem to matter if it's *WRONG* information, so long as you get it out there first.  People want the most up-to-date information, and rarely does wrong information come back to seriously bite the news agency unless you can show they reported incorrect information intentionally, so the bias is towards getting information out as quickly as you can, with minimal fact checking, on breaking news stories.
 
2013-02-14 01:04:50 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: SkylineRecords: I actually have a feeling this guy isn't dead. It's not as far-fetched as 9/11 or the birther's movement. The guy has military AND law enforcement experience, and knows exactly how they're going to operate. What better way to get some heat to die down than for your pursuers to think you're dead? Crazy may be crazy, but crazy is very smart, too.

I would be inclined to agree with you if in fact they did not have a shoot out with a guy who they cornered in the cabin which they covered all of the entrances and set up road check points in the surrounding area. So what, he paid someone who happens to look like him to shoot at the cops, run inside, and kill himself? He had dug a 2 mile long tunnel that once inside the cabin, he was able to walk through to his get away car with a disguise in it?


All I'm saying is never underestimate what crazy has planned, and be even more afraid of what they haven't planned.
 
2013-02-14 01:05:41 PM  

Deep Contact: All police carry fire proof licenses. Everyone knows that.



Yup. Its probably made out of the same material as the 9/11 hijacker's passport.
 
2013-02-14 01:06:19 PM  

Mikey1969: Also, the DMV doesn't let you keep your old license when they issue a new one.



Yes and no - they do want your old license back when you are issued a new one, but it isn't mandatory (at least in Ohio). I have never given back any of my old driver's licenses. As long as you have another valid government ID you are good to go. I always take my passport with me when I get my license renewed and they have never made an issue of it.
 
2013-02-14 01:06:39 PM  

cfroelic: The One True TheDavid: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.

Driver's. Possessive apostrophe.


No, it's Driver License.  No s, no apostrophe.  Check the California DMV site

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/home/dmv.htm



A government agency that doesn't understand basic grammar does not overrule every other state (and country) that properly spells it with the possessive apostrophe.
 
2013-02-14 01:06:58 PM  

syberpud: SkylineRecords: I actually have a feeling this guy isn't dead. It's not as far-fetched as 9/11 or the birther's movement. The guy has military AND law enforcement experience, and knows exactly how they're going to operate. What better way to get some heat to die down than for your pursuers to think you're dead? Crazy may be crazy, but crazy is very smart, too.

Plus the guy is seeped in pop culture. So much so he probably thinks that stuff in the movies would work and give it a try: Kill some homeless guy who fits the basic characteristics, plant evidence, burn down cabin and try to sneak out during the chaos.

I don't believe the cops would fake it.  This is personal, not some quick murder they want off the books.  They aren't about to let Dorner live free by faking his death so they can close the case.


I believe it's him, personally. But if we're going with the theory that it's not, I think it would have been more a case of they thought they were burning him alive, but got in there and realized that they burned up the wrong person, and thought, "Oh shiat. If people were pissed about the old lady in the truck... Quick, leak that we found his wallet next to the body. Now shut up, it's him."
 
2013-02-14 01:08:31 PM  

cfroelic: namegoeshere: amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]

Huh. NY as well. Who knew?

I knew


Oh fine, Mr. DriveR License Nazi Smarty Pants Man. Enjoy your moment in the smart seat.
 
2013-02-14 01:10:48 PM  

cfroelic: The One True TheDavid: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.

Driver's. Possessive apostrophe.


No, it's Driver License.  No s, no apostrophe.  Check the California DMV site

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/home/dmv.htm


driver? don't even know her.
at least up here it's driver's license.  Take off eh?
 
2013-02-14 01:11:01 PM  

dittybopper: mizchief: It probably is just media screwing  up, but we deserve to know the truth of how this happens and the news agency held accountable for reporting false information.

You wanna know how it happens?

Money.

You see, news agencies are funded by advertising.  If a particular news agency can show higher ratings than its competitors, it can charge more money per unit of advertising.  In the news business, you get ratings by being the first with information.  It doesn't really seem to matter if it's *WRONG* information, so long as you get it out there first.  People want the most up-to-date information, and rarely does wrong information come back to seriously bite the news agency unless you can show they reported incorrect information intentionally, so the bias is towards getting information out as quickly as you can, with minimal fact checking, on breaking news stories.


Who goes back and forth between news channels trying to see who reported something first? Who decides to switch their allegance to one news channel because they're charting stories and they conclude that CNN reports news 4.37 minutes faster than MSNBC on average? FOX News has the highest ratings and they are the least reputable. I don't think your theory stands up.
 
2013-02-14 01:11:16 PM  

acaciaavenue: You can apply for your license and claim it got lost in the mail. They will send you a duplicate. It's pretty easy.


They send you a license in the mail if you apply for one? Wow.
 
2013-02-14 01:12:25 PM  

amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]


It's "Driver License" everywhere. Somebody is stupid or trollin.
 
2013-02-14 01:12:46 PM  

Therion: vpb: It's funny how these carefully scripted conspiracies always involve really careless oversights like multiple wallets and phony shooting victim photographs.

[www.trbimg.com image 600x392]

Yeah, photoshopped and obviously fake.


Well duh.  Have you ever seen a gun that leaves both square & numbered bullet holes?
 
2013-02-14 01:12:51 PM  

dittybopper: Surool: I'm confused... so NOW the big conspiracy is that the LAPD has faked this guys death to help him escape? I mean, if that isn't the case, all this guy would have to do to take down the department is pop up alive some place. I'm not sure what this particular piece of conspiracy theory would accomplish for the participants.

I believe the thinking is this:  The police would be embarrassed if it became public knowledge that the person who was killed in the fire was *NOT* Chris Dorner, therefore they are going to identify the body as him, even if it isn't.  Local cops on the scene wouldn't be able to tell anyway, just looking at crispy critter-type remains.

I don't agree with it, I think they got Dorner,  but I can see the logic there.


Come on, man, you're better at logic than that. Dorner had a serious axe to grind against the LAPD. If they faked his death, one lucky TV news reader would be getting a phone call from Dorner as soon as the coroner "confirmed" that it was Dorner's body. "Um, yeah, about that guy the LAPD and LA coroner say is me? Yeah, not so much. Here's my 20-minute rant that I want you to break into 'Judge Judy' to air. Ready?"

This crazy conspiracy theory thing is a fun game to play, though :-)
 
2013-02-14 01:14:34 PM  

UtopianDevil: Mikey1969: Also, the DMV doesn't let you keep your old license when they issue a new one.


Yes and no - they do want your old license back when you are issued a new one, but it isn't mandatory (at least in Ohio). I have never given back any of my old driver's licenses. As long as you have another valid government ID you are good to go. I always take my passport with me when I get my license renewed and they have never made an issue of it.


I have two IDs because I thought I lost one and after driving for about a month without it, I finally made it to the DMV to get another one. Best part: I get back into my car after getting the new license, look down to buckle my seatbelt, and the damn old license is sitting on the floor, in between my seats. I found the old one before I even left the DMV parking lot.
 
2013-02-14 01:15:10 PM  

Madbassist1: acaciaavenue: You can apply for your license and claim it got lost in the mail. They will send you a duplicate. It's pretty easy.

They send you a license in the mail if you apply for one? Wow.


In NY you can renew by mail, on line, or in person. They reuse the old photo, which is nice.
 
2013-02-14 01:15:42 PM  

Oerath: I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose. To keep it from going to trial and letting him accuse them of a bunch of stuff and drag the whole thing out.


Not to mention that there were many people on Dorner's side.  They agree with him that the LAPD is totally currupt.  If it was shown on TV, that the LAPD shot him to death it would have made him a martyr.

Now, I'm no tinfoil hat guy either.  But I thought it very strange timing that nothing was reported on the news until literally ONE SECOND before the President came on to speak.  And all they said was, "the cabin appears to be on fire.  Now, on to the President."
By the time the news got back to it, the fire was out, and there appeared to be a charred body "believed" to be Dorner.

I have my own thoery about this...  I think there was someone else in there with him.  He was killed and left to burn when the cabin went up in flames.  He likely escaped.  When you think about it that way, it's in the best interests for the cops to report to the media that he's a gonner.  If he's alive and watching, he'll think he's gotten away.
 
2013-02-14 01:15:45 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Oerath: I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose. To keep it from going to trial and letting him accuse them of a bunch of stuff and drag the whole thing out.

Or to kill him because they were pissed and retaliating.


I'm gonna go with...both.
 
2013-02-14 01:15:58 PM  
Smeggy Smurf:

He shot pigs, not innocent people.

Except for a pig's daughter and her boyfriend. His goal was to hurt her father, which might well have worked, and the accounts I read suggested that they didn't "suffer!" But still it's hard for a morally consistent freedom fighter to defend "collateral damage." By accident or being in the wrong place, maybe; by deliberate targetting, no. Not that it's always wrong, just that it makes the Moral High Road harder to claim: we're supposed to be better than the pigs.

That's what keeps the Manson Family from being heroes, by the way: the first celebrity victims could be stretched into semi-legitimate targets, but the LaBiancas don't half count.

/ There's still time to name a liberation front after me. EIP to discuss licensing rights.
 
2013-02-14 01:16:53 PM  
All cops carry a throw-down license
 
2013-02-14 01:17:16 PM  
Oerath:

I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose. To keep it from going to trial and letting him accuse them of a bunch of stuff and drag the whole thing out.

This. Though I'm to cheap to buy foil.
 
2013-02-14 01:18:10 PM  
dittybopper: Of course, the situation was entirely of his making, but it's still unacceptable behavior on the part of the police forces involved.  Two wrongs don't make a right.

This bears repeating. It's the best statement on the entire circus, from beginning to end. Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
2013-02-14 01:18:20 PM  
Walletgate?
 
2013-02-14 01:19:03 PM  
Who cares?

The guy is dead now. The fun part's over.
 
2013-02-14 01:19:17 PM  
I know!

He was actually inside a robot copy of himself that he used to fake his own death!
 
2013-02-14 01:19:48 PM  
Dr.Zom:
Why not just plant the dead Dorner in the cabin?

With a head full of bullets?  Bad idea.
 
2013-02-14 01:20:49 PM  

durbnpoisn: Now, I'm no tinfoil hat guy either.  But I thought it very strange timing that nothing was reported on the news until literally ONE SECOND before the President came on to speak.  And all they said was, "the cabin appears to be on fire.  Now, on to the President."
By the time the news got back to it, the fire was out, and there appeared to be a charred body "believed" to be Dorner.


So you claim to not be wearing tinfoil and follow it up with a conspiracy that doesn't even match the actual events?
 
2013-02-14 01:21:14 PM  

FormlessOne: SlothB77: Or there's the possibility that the wallet skeptics have found the one flaw in a carefully scripted police conspiracy, and that the police made a conscious decision to lie to everyone about finding Dorner's wallet in multiple places, in an effort to...well, it's not clear why the police would do that. General mayhem?

Cover up the fact that Dorner's body wasn't found in the cabin?

I tend to believe it was Dorner in the cabin tho, with or without the ID.  The other possibilities are that: a) it is someone else's body in the cabin, b) no body was found in the cabin.  The ID thing doesn't really exculpate the police from intentionally burning the cabin down.

But it does now allow LAPD to hunt Dorner down & kill him without press coverage or overt observation. "Yeah, that was Dorner - we found his ID. You can stop covering the story now. Go home. Move along. Move along."


That's one way of looking at it, and probably the right one.

--------------------------

fickenchucker: What a waste of conspiracy effort.  Who says a psycho didn't have multiple IDs, say a couple of credit cards left in a jacket he left behind while eluding police, a driver's license left somewhere else for the same reasons, and finally the bulk of his wallet with his old police ID passport at the final location?

And a body "burned beyond recognition" might simply be a melted head, but a portion of the body intact covering the final wallet.  It's not like the human body instantly degrades and self-immolates like a Fourth of July snake.


Somebody who takes the time to have multiple IDs isn't going to have multiple IDs of his own personal information. You get the fake shiat.  There is no reason to have multiple IDs of your own information when you're engaging in extracurricular activities.
 
2013-02-14 01:23:15 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: FOX News has the highest ratings and they are the least reputable. I don't think your theory stands up.


That doesn't refute my theory.  If anything, it confirms it.
 
2013-02-14 01:23:16 PM  

Mikey1969: fickenchucker: What a waste of conspiracy effort.  Who says a psycho didn't have multiple IDs, say a couple of credit cards left in a jacket he left behind while eluding police, a driver's license left somewhere else for the same reasons, and finally the bulk of his wallet with his old police ID passport at the final location?

And a body "burned beyond recognition" might simply be a melted head, but a portion of the body intact covering the final wallet.  It's not like the human body instantly degrades and self-immolates like a Fourth of July snake.

If you're planning to go on the run, why would you have multiple IDs in your own name, the one you would have already burned? You make multiple IDs in different names, not the same one. Also, the DMV doesn't let you keep your old license when they issue a new one.


They do in New Mexico, but they hole punch the ID at the top.
 
2013-02-14 01:24:03 PM  

Madbassist1: amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]

It's "Driver License" everywhere. Somebody is stupid or trollin.



No, not "everywhere".

Wikipedia: Driver's License

MD DMV: Driver's License

PA DMV: Driver's License

GA DDS: Driver's License

These are just the states I know firsthand, I'm sure other states use the apostrophe as well.
 
2013-02-14 01:24:33 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.


How about the part where they burned down the cabin without knowing who was inside, if anyone. In other words, there could have been hostages in there but apparently the PD didn't know how many people were in there.

Completely ignoring Dorner, that's troublesome. And good luck to the PD in future negotiations when this is seen as their peaceful way out.

Oh, and the might want to stop calling tear gas "burners", just saying.
 
2013-02-14 01:25:00 PM  

No Such Agency: Dr.Zom:
Why not just plant the dead Dorner in the cabin?

With a head full of bullets?  Bad idea.


He killed himself a lot.
 
2013-02-14 01:26:17 PM  

SpdrJay: Same way they found a passport for the guy who flew into WTC.

Magic lamination.


Well, lamination is put on with heat, right? So what is more heat gonna do? Put it on again? I think not.
That stuff is like adamantium. Once it cools down, that's the shape you are stuck with.
 
2013-02-14 01:26:30 PM  
If every discrepancy that ever made it into print was an indication of a conspiracy, then obviously they all are intended to cover up the fact that Dewey did in fact defeat Truman.
www.loriferber.com
 
2013-02-14 01:26:43 PM  

dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: FOX News has the highest ratings and they are the least reputable. I don't think your theory stands up.

That doesn't refute my theory.  If anything, it confirms it.


*Processing*

Yeah, I see what you're saying here. But, you also have to mix credibility into that equation. No one is going to go to a news source that constantly gets it wrong.
 
2013-02-14 01:27:03 PM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Somebody who takes the time to have multiple IDs isn't going to have multiple IDs of his own personal information. You get the fake shiat.  There is no reason to have multiple IDs of your own information when you're engaging in extracurricular activities.


Unless the reason for having the multiple IDs is to leave them as sort of a calling card, of course. Anybody could scrawl "Dorner Was Here" near the scene of a crime, but leaving a valid form of ID adds a little gravity.
 
2013-02-14 01:27:57 PM  
 
2013-02-14 01:28:28 PM  

Keeve: If every discrepancy that ever made it into print was an indication of a conspiracy, then obviously they all are intended to cover up the fact that Dewey did in fact defeat Truman.
[www.loriferber.com image 370x277]


He was elected President of Chicago.
 
2013-02-14 01:28:34 PM  

the ha ha guy: Madbassist1: amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]

It's "Driver License" everywhere. Somebody is stupid or trollin.


No, not "everywhere".

Wikipedia: Driver's License

MD DMV: Driver's License

PA DMV: Driver's License

GA DDS: Driver's License

These are just the states I know firsthand, I'm sure other states use the apostrophe as well.


GODDAMIT SO MUCH!!! WRONG TWICE IN TWO farkING DAYS!!!!111!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH
 
2013-02-14 01:28:43 PM  

UtopianDevil: Mikey1969: Also, the DMV doesn't let you keep your old license when they issue a new one.


Yes and no - they do want your old license back when you are issued a new one, but it isn't mandatory (at least in Ohio). I have never given back any of my old driver's licenses. As long as you have another valid government ID you are good to go. I always take my passport with me when I get my license renewed and they have never made an issue of it.


Never been able to keep an old one once they issued the new one, with the exception of the mid-90's, when I claimed I lost it. Nowadays, these people around here at least are extra-anal about these things.
 
2013-02-14 01:28:58 PM  
I will say that I have several copies of my CDL. Only one is current but when I added endorsements they let me keep my original and gave me a paper temp slip for the endorsements and sent a new permanent one in the mail. If I happen to leave my CDL in an office somewhere I use an older one for ID until the one I left catches up in the mail. As long as I don't need an endorsement for a particular load, nobody knows any different. They all expire at the same time and have the same license number that my original drivers license had.

So yeah I could do what he did, right now.
 
2013-02-14 01:29:34 PM  

durbnpoisn: Oerath: I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose. To keep it from going to trial and letting him accuse them of a bunch of stuff and drag the whole thing out.

Not to mention that there were many people on Dorner's side.  They agree with him that the LAPD is totally currupt.  If it was shown on TV, that the LAPD shot him to death it would have made him a martyr.

Now, I'm no tinfoil hat guy either.  But I thought it very strange timing that nothing was reported on the news until literally ONE SECOND before the President came on to speak.  And all they said was, "the cabin appears to be on fire.  Now, on to the President."
By the time the news got back to it, the fire was out, and there appeared to be a charred body "believed" to be Dorner.

I have my own thoery about this...  I think there was someone else in there with him.  He was killed and left to burn when the cabin went up in flames.  He likely escaped.  When you think about it that way, it's in the best interests for the cops to report to the media that he's a gonner.  If he's alive and watching, he'll think he's gotten away.


I thought there were two women, and one of the women 'escaped' and that's how they found out?

What happened to the two women, or was that a fake story, too?
 
2013-02-14 01:29:36 PM  
New Jersey: Auto Driver License
 
2013-02-14 01:31:06 PM  

Madbassist1: the ha ha guy: Madbassist1: amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".


GODDAMIT SO MUCH!!! WRONG TWICE IN TWO farkING DAYS!!!!111!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH


Also, how in the fark would you know that little piece of trivia (and I DO mean trivia). Do you have lots of mundane facts like that in your noggin?
 
2013-02-14 01:31:32 PM  
Mitch Taylor's Bro:
Come on, man, you're better at logic than that. Dorner had a serious axe to grind against the LAPD. If they faked his death, one lucky TV news reader would be getting a phone call from Dorner as soon as the coroner "confirmed" that it was Dorner's body. "Um, yeah, about that guy the LAPD and LA coroner say is me? Yeah, not so much. Here's my 20-minute rant that I want you to break into 'Judge Judy' to air. Ready?"

Please... the Reverse Vampires own the TV stations.
 
2013-02-14 01:31:49 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: dittybopper: Surool: I'm confused... so NOW the big conspiracy is that the LAPD has faked this guys death to help him escape? I mean, if that isn't the case, all this guy would have to do to take down the department is pop up alive some place. I'm not sure what this particular piece of conspiracy theory would accomplish for the participants.

I believe the thinking is this:  The police would be embarrassed if it became public knowledge that the person who was killed in the fire was *NOT* Chris Dorner, therefore they are going to identify the body as him, even if it isn't.  Local cops on the scene wouldn't be able to tell anyway, just looking at crispy critter-type remains.

I don't agree with it, I think they got Dorner,  but I can see the logic there.

Come on, man, you're better at logic than that. Dorner had a serious axe to grind against the LAPD. If they faked his death, one lucky TV news reader would be getting a phone call from Dorner as soon as the coroner "confirmed" that it was Dorner's body. "Um, yeah, about that guy the LAPD and LA coroner say is me? Yeah, not so much. Here's my 20-minute rant that I want you to break into 'Judge Judy' to air. Ready?"

This crazy conspiracy theory thing is a fun game to play, though :-)


Heh, yeah it is.

A couple of problems:

1. Dorner wouldn't likely call the news to say "I'm not dead yet!", because it's useful for his mission for everyone to *THINK* he's dead.  Police stop doggy-guarding his targets, and the police don't have itchy trigger fingers every time they see a large bald black man.  He can go after them at his leisure, secure in the knowledge that they are no longer looking for him.  Then, when he's done what he set out to do, he can just walk away.

2. What news reader would believe him anyway?  He's officially dead.  Probably some crackpot.  They call us all the time.  Bet before the call is over he references Bababooey.
 
2013-02-14 01:32:24 PM  

Captain Darling: From the comments

"I try not to be too tinfoil, but burning is really convenient since nobody can eyeball and identify the body that way. It's more important for the LAPD to publicly be seen to kill Dorner than for them to ACTUALLY kill Dorner. Think about it."


WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again. How the hell would it profit the LAPD to fake his death?



Faking/lying about the ID doesn't actually mean they're lying about his corpse.

I actually have a pretty plausible explanation as to why they might lie about the ID. Sloppiness and an utter uninterest for proper procedure and use of force. Those are attributes which the LAPD demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt when they shot 6 innocent people (including latin grandmas delivering newspapers) and rammed a pickup truck while searching for him.

They could be well aware that it was his corpse that they recovered, but they want everyone to STFU about it. So they lie about finding his ID... If they are certain they actually got him this time then it's not like he'll show up somewhere else and prove that they were lying.

But it's kind of moot... the LAPD's execution throughout this whole episode has shown that there were TWO villains in this story, not one. Dorner was the first and the LAPD the second. Dorner was eliminated as a threat, the LAPD is going on as strong as ever. But we can be sure that the LAPD is not to be trusted now. Some of the strong criticisms of them have clearly been validated. They are totally out of control, and apparently effectively without oversight.

If I lived there I'd be a hell of a lot more frightened by the police than the criminals. The criminals I can fight back against and possibly win. The police can murder you and simply get away with it scott free.
 
2013-02-14 01:32:50 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Yeah, I see what you're saying here. But, you also have to mix credibility into that equation. No one is going to go to a news source that constantly gets it wrong.


I don't know, man. You guys are having an interesting conversation, but at the end of the day, I think people go to a news source that conforms to their view of things. It's not like a conservative has to check out MSNBC to make sure they get the straight poop. They turn on Fox because Fox presents the news in ways that confirms and reinforces their view of events.

/no TV
//gets my news from Fark and google
 
2013-02-14 01:32:57 PM  

cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


Licenses in this case.
 
2013-02-14 01:34:54 PM  

Madbassist1: Also, how in the fark would you know that little piece of trivia (and I DO mean trivia). Do you have lots of mundane facts like that in your noggin?



You said that it was Driver License "everywhere". My current license (and licenses from previous states) all have the apostrophe, thus disproving your incorrect correction and accusation of trolling.
 
2013-02-14 01:35:57 PM  
1. Military ID
2. Police ID
3. Driver's License
4. Passport
5. Diner's Club Card
 
2013-02-14 01:36:53 PM  
Yeah, the multiple ID thing sounds more like catching the LAPD in garden variety "lying to the press" shenanigans, from back when they had no farking clue where he was but didn't want to sound totally incompetent.
 
2013-02-14 01:38:07 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.


It's called innocent until proven guilty.  He's automatically guilty because the police say he's guilty?  Why would they do that?  Oh that's right, he accused them of breaking the law, so OF COURSE they shoot first and ask questions later.  They were trying to kill him, why else would they shoot up that truck before they even knew if he was the one in it?
 
2013-02-14 01:38:34 PM  

BolloxReader: I will say that I have several copies of my CDL. Only one is current but when I added endorsements they let me keep my original and gave me a paper temp slip for the endorsements and sent a new permanent one in the mail. If I happen to leave my CDL in an office somewhere I use an older one for ID until the one I left catches up in the mail. As long as I don't need an endorsement for a particular load, nobody knows any different. They all expire at the same time and have the same license number that my original drivers license had.

So yeah I could do what he did, right now.


You don't get two copies of your badge, though. That point has consistently bothered me since a man on one of the national news sites comment sections asked about it.  There is no way that Dorner's badge should have been found in a field (or on the street, or anywhere) with his identification, if he was an *ex*-cop.  When you leave your job, or are forced out, you are required to also give up your IDs.  No way is an *ex*-cop going to be allowed to keep a badge... especially if the job was lost several years ago.

I had only seen one news article which referenced the badge as something like waiting to be authenticated... and that was days after this first hit the press.

Was he employed elsewhere, though, that required a badge?
 
2013-02-14 01:39:47 PM  

mongbiohazard: They could be well aware that it was his corpse that they recovered, but they want everyone to STFU about it. So they lie about finding his ID... If they are certain they actually got him this time then it's not like he'll show up somewhere else and prove that they were lying.


Even if they are not certain... it get's people to STFU, and if he pops up on live TV in an attempt to embarrass them, someone can swoop in and catch him and they can say "we said we found his ID, we never confirmed  the body was him"
 
2013-02-14 01:40:37 PM  

mongbiohazard: Captain Darling: From the comments

"I try not to be too tinfoil, but burning is really convenient since nobody can eyeball and identify the body that way. It's more important for the LAPD to publicly be seen to kill Dorner than for them to ACTUALLY kill Dorner. Think about it."


WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again. How the hell would it profit the LAPD to fake his death?


Faking/lying about the ID doesn't actually mean they're lying about his corpse.

I actually have a pretty plausible explanation as to why they might lie about the ID. Sloppiness and an utter uninterest for proper procedure and use of force. Those are attributes which the LAPD demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt when they shot 6 innocent people (including latin grandmas delivering newspapers) and rammed a pickup truck while searching for him

during the OJ trial.

I'm sure folks with memories older than 20 years ago can go back even further.
 
2013-02-14 01:42:03 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: FOX News has the highest ratings and they are the least reputable. I don't think your theory stands up.

That doesn't refute my theory.  If anything, it confirms it.

*Processing*

Yeah, I see what you're saying here. But, you also have to mix credibility into that equation. No one is going to go to a news source that constantly gets it wrong.


People have a kind of selective amnesia about the news.  There is a name for it, but ironically I can't remember it right now.
 
2013-02-14 01:42:50 PM  
I find it amusing how people draw from the action movies they've seen to come up with what they think happened.
 
2013-02-14 01:43:04 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.


Plus, that is a million dollar match they used, as it keeps him from being convicted, and thus, no bounty is paid.
 
2013-02-14 01:44:16 PM  

No Such Agency: Dr.Zom:
Why not just plant the dead Dorner in the cabin?

With a head full of bullets?  Bad idea.


If they had him already all they had to do was execute him in a way that was consistent with suicide. Plant body, light up cabin, wipe hands on cop pants.
 
2013-02-14 01:46:34 PM  

ringersol: Yeah, the multiple ID thing sounds more like catching the LAPD in garden variety "lying to the press" shenanigans, from back when they had no farking clue where he was but didn't want to sound totally incompetent.



Exactly. They don't have to be lying about having killed him to have lied about the details. And with the bang up job they were doing on his trail some white lies (racist pun unintended) here and there seem utterly plausible.

This is a police force who will attempt to murder random people - on multiple occasions - because they are reckless and effectively unaccountable. Lying about finding his ID to make themselves look more competent is totally believable.
 
2013-02-14 01:48:15 PM  
Late to this party (and apologies if this has been posted), but I just want to point out that the wallet found near the border wasn't a case of sloppy reporting - it's listed as evidence in one of the sworn criminal complaints against Dorner.

Fulltext
 
2013-02-14 01:48:17 PM  

fickenchucker: What a waste of conspiracy effort.  Who says a psycho didn't have multiple IDs, say a couple of credit cards left in a jacket he left behind while eluding police, a driver's license left somewhere else for the same reasons, and finally the bulk of his wallet with his old police ID passport at the final location?

And a body "burned beyond recognition" might simply be a melted head, but a portion of the body intact covering the final wallet.  It's not like the human body instantly degrades and self-immolates like a Fourth of July snake.


They would have identified the corpse hours ago if that was the case.
 
2013-02-14 01:48:58 PM  

olapbill: cfroelic: The One True TheDavid: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.

Driver's. Possessive apostrophe.


No, it's Driver License.  No s, no apostrophe.  Check the California DMV site

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/home/dmv.htm

driver? don't even know her.
at least up here it's driver's license.  Take off eh?


Hate to be "that guy" but you're still wrong. It's licence in Canada.
www.ontario.ca
 
2013-02-14 01:49:02 PM  

No Such Agency: Mitch Taylor's Bro:
Come on, man, you're better at logic than that. Dorner had a serious axe to grind against the LAPD. If they faked his death, one lucky TV news reader would be getting a phone call from Dorner as soon as the coroner "confirmed" that it was Dorner's body. "Um, yeah, about that guy the LAPD and LA coroner say is me? Yeah, not so much. Here's my 20-minute rant that I want you to break into 'Judge Judy' to air. Ready?"

Please... the Reverse Vampires own the TV stations.


I'm pretty sure they like "exclusives" and good ratings,  too. Or are you suggesting that...DORNER IS A REVERSE VAMPIRE????? [dun, dun, DUN!!!!]
 
2013-02-14 01:49:26 PM  

dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: FOX News has the highest ratings and they are the least reputable. I don't think your theory stands up.

That doesn't refute my theory.  If anything, it confirms it.

*Processing*

Yeah, I see what you're saying here. But, you also have to mix credibility into that equation. No one is going to go to a news source that constantly gets it wrong.

People have a kind of selective amnesia about the news.  There is a name for it, but ironically I can't remember it right now.


Do you mean confirmation bias? Because Fox wouldn't exist without it.
 
2013-02-14 01:49:35 PM  

Elegy: Late to this party (and apologies if this has been posted), but I just want to point out that the wallet found near the border wasn't a case of sloppy reporting - it's listed as evidence in one of the sworn criminal complaints against Dorner.

Fulltext


Whoops, fark dumped the pic of the excerpt:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-14 01:51:17 PM  

Stone Meadow: DROxINxTHExWIND: Yeah, I see what you're saying here. But, you also have to mix credibility into that equation. No one is going to go to a news source that constantly gets it wrong.

I don't know, man. You guys are having an interesting conversation, but at the end of the day, I think people go to a news source that conforms to their view of things. It's not like a conservative has to check out MSNBC to make sure they get the straight poop. They turn on Fox because Fox presents the news in ways that confirms and reinforces their view of events.


That too, but money is always at the root of it.  Actually, having opposing sides like MSNBC and FoxNews is actually pretty healthy.  No one outlet or ideology has a monopoly on the truth.

I think the biggest lesson to take away is this:  "Initial reporting is always wrong".
 
2013-02-14 01:51:26 PM  

bigbadideasinaction: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

How about the part where they burned down the cabin without knowing who was inside, if anyone. In other words, there could have been hostages in there but apparently the PD didn't know how many people were in there.

Completely ignoring Dorner, that's troublesome. And good luck to the PD in future negotiations when this is seen as their peaceful way out.

Oh, and the might want to stop calling tear gas "burners", just saying.


FLIR
 
2013-02-14 01:52:01 PM  
Morning meeting pre-attack plan;

Everyone have a Dorner license-check

Gasoline-check

Donuts-check

Cabin sign up sheet for this season-check

We're going to draw straws now to see who we shoot, need 2-check

Meet back here post attack to go over acting and special effects.
 
2013-02-14 01:54:19 PM  

Oerath: I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose.


I'm sure that would go over well if there happened to be a hostage in the building.


The guy could easily have had his wallet in his breast pocket and was wearing body armor chest.
 
2013-02-14 01:55:36 PM  
How much evidence do they have that he was the one who killed the daughter and her boyfriend? I mean, he was obviously a suspect, but did he take pictures witht he dead bodies and post them on facebook, or is everyone jsut assuming it was him because of the manifesto?
 
2013-02-14 01:55:53 PM  

Elegy: Elegy: Late to this party (and apologies if this has been posted), but I just want to point out that the wallet found near the border wasn't a case of sloppy reporting - it's listed as evidence in one of the sworn criminal complaints against Dorner.

Fulltext

Whoops, fark dumped the pic of the excerpt:

[i.imgur.com image 625x88]


ah ha!  "Identification cards".  But that could be his Costco ID.  It doesn't say driver license.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-02-14 01:56:14 PM  

Therion: vpb: It's funny how these carefully scripted conspiracies always involve really careless oversights like multiple wallets and phony shooting victim photographs.

[www.trbimg.com image 600x392]

Yeah, photoshopped and obviously fake.


Ah yes.  A photo of a truck.  That clearly proves that there was a conspiracy to kill Dorner and then falsely claim that his body was his by forging his license.
 
2013-02-14 01:56:19 PM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: I'm sure folks with memories older than 20 years ago can go back even further.



No argument here.

This case though was just SO egregious though... I don't understand how the mayor or governor isn't raging through the LAPD like the Hulk right farking now. If I was an executive branch official with a police force in my jurisdiction that behaved like that I'd be putting my foot so far up their collective asses that they'd taste my shoe polish. I'd be embarking on years of reforms and the resignations of everyone in charge.
 
2013-02-14 01:57:04 PM  
VantheMan:  They were trying to kill him, why else would they shoot up that truck before they even knew if he was the one in it?

Because they're human beings and they were sacred shiatless that someone with police training who had just ambushed two other officers was targetting them? I like how the entire police force was in on this and ALL of them wanted to see Dorner get executed. I guess Chris Dorner was the last honest cop alive.
 
2013-02-14 01:58:47 PM  
Not long after I got off active duty, the Army started taking mouth swabs for DNA.  This was to ID your corpse with instead of dental records. The other branches too I'm sure.  Maybe this why it's taking so long to get the official word that it was or wasn't him in the embers.
 
2013-02-14 01:58:47 PM  

dittybopper: Surool: I'm confused... so NOW the big conspiracy is that the LAPD has faked this guys death to help him escape? I mean, if that isn't the case, all this guy would have to do to take down the department is pop up alive some place. I'm not sure what this particular piece of conspiracy theory would accomplish for the participants.

I believe the thinking is this:  The police would be embarrassed if it became public knowledge that the person who was killed in the fire was *NOT* Chris Dorner, therefore they are going to identify the body as him, even if it isn't.  Local cops on the scene wouldn't be able to tell anyway, just looking at crispy critter-type remains.

I don't agree with it, I think they got Dorner,  but I can see the logic there.


Did they not announce themselves and determine hostile activity?  What fool would just drive an LAV into a house as the first course of action?
 
2013-02-14 01:59:07 PM  

Snarfangel: "I'm 007243911, and I have a license to drive."


www.healthydivaeats.com
 
2013-02-14 01:59:48 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire.


I doubt he shot himself in the head while lying on his back.
Nor do I think that if he was standing and shot himself in the head, that he would end up neatly lying on his back with his butt protecting the wallet from the flames.
 
2013-02-14 02:00:53 PM  

cfroelic: The One True TheDavid: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.

Driver's. Possessive apostrophe.


No, it's Driver License.  No s, no apostrophe.  Check the California DMV site

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/home/dmv.htm


Okay, okay. In KY it is "Driver's."
transportation.ky.gov
 
2013-02-14 02:02:01 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: VantheMan:  They were trying to kill him, why else would they shoot up that truck before they even knew if he was the one in it?

Because they're human beings and they were sacred shiatless that someone with police training who had just ambushed two other officers was targetting them? I like how the entire police force was in on this and ALL of them wanted to see Dorner get executed.  I guess Chris Dorner was the last honest cop alive.



That just screams "movie poster".
The left loves this guy, so it will happen.
 
2013-02-14 02:02:06 PM  

mizchief: Mija: On 9/11 the government claimed one of the highjackers paasports was found in the debri of the trade centers. Farkers defended that.

But none of the black boxes designed to withstand head-on mid air collisions and the ensuing fall to the ground from 10,000 feet were recovered.


It just might be easier to blow out an ID card in the initial explosion than a heavy metal box.

Did you see all that paper falling down?. Why was all that burnable paper not immolated !?!?!?!?!?!
 
2013-02-14 02:06:08 PM  
The latest incarnation of the story before the fire:


Jim and Karen Reynolds told reporters Wednesday night in Big Bear that it was not two housekeepers, as widely reported, but they who discovered Dorner Tuesday morning in the apartment where he had taken refuge.

"We happened to walk in on him,'' Karen Reynolds said. "He tried to calm us down, saying very frequently he would not kill us.''

The couple said Dorner tied them up, put washcloths in their mouths, used a cord to tie pillowcases over their heads and told them to keep quiet while he left in their car. They said after he had been gone about a minute, they broke free and were able to contact authorities.

"You could tell he was professionally trained," said Karen Reynolds of Dorner, 33, who was fired from the Los Angeles Police Department in 2009.


Ok.
- Initially reported two women.
Now it's reported a man and a woman.
Initially reported a woman got away and called for help.

- This couple is saying he put a pillow case over their heads and that he would leave in their car... so they waited a minute, broke themselves free of his restraints (what? he must have intended them to be able to get free, if he didn't tie or gag them tightly enough so that they'd be immobilized) and sought help.

- The cabin was being used as an apartment?  Who else lived there?

- Why would Dorner drive some couple's vehicle, only to take up residence in another cabin a little ways away?

FTFA:

He said deputies initially fired conventional "cold" tear gas into the cabin in Seven Oaks, near Big Bear Lake, then switched to "pyrotechnic-type" rounds" known as "burners."

Authorities have strong evidence that the man deputies tracked to the vacation cabin looked and behaved like Dorner, he said. And though he still could not "absolutely, positively confirm" that the charred body found inside was Dorner's, the sheriff said the coroner would likely make the determination "soon."

A wallet with a California driver's license bearing the name Christopher Dorner was found, the Associated Press reported earlier, citing a law enforcement official who was briefed on the investigation.

"We believe the investigation is over at this point," McMahon said.

It was also revealed that during the manhunt deputies had knocked on the door of the cabin, which was was but moved on when they got no answer.


- Is that evidence as strong as two elderly latin ladies or a white surfer dude? I mean, Dorner could have been anybody, he's like Fletch or Rich Little.
- Given the number of reports out of Big Bear from residents who were proud to be gun owners and talked a big game about having their guns ready to shoot if they thought trouble (Dorner) was coming their way.... but y'all can finish that train of thought for me.
 
2013-02-14 02:06:25 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire.

I doubt he shot himself in the head while lying on his back.
Nor do I think that if he was standing and shot himself in the head, that he would end up neatly lying on his back with his butt protecting the wallet from the flames.


But, you DO believe that a passport fell out of a man's belongings as the plane that he was hijacking plunged into a skyscraper and landed on the ground, intact, where investigators found it? Oooookay.
 
2013-02-14 02:07:13 PM  

dittybopper: Heh, yeah it is.

A couple of problems:

1. Dorner wouldn't likely call the news to say "I'm not dead yet!", because it's useful for his mission for everyone to *THINK* he's dead. Police stop doggy-guarding his targets, and the police don't have itchy trigger fingers every time they see a large bald black man. He can go after them at his leisure, secure in the knowledge that they are no longer looking for him. Then, when he's done what he set out to do, he can just walk away.

2. What news reader would believe him anyway? He's officially dead. Probably some crackpot. They call us all the time. Bet before the call is over he references Bababooey.


Rebuttal 1: Yeah, but the cops KNOW he's alive, so while they might let their guard down a little, it would only be to allow the media, and by association, the public, to forget about the whole thing. Meanwhile, they continue hunting him and take him out a little more quietly. Then, in June, on pg. 23 of the LA Times, a little article appears, "Unnamed homeless man found dead under Santa Monica Freeway overpass. Cause of death, unknown."

Rebuttal 2: Ric Romero is actually a TV reporter in...dun, dun, DUN!!!... Los Angeles!!!~!!11!1!

:-)
 
2013-02-14 02:07:28 PM  

the ha ha guy: Madbassist1: amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]

It's "Driver License" everywhere. Somebody is stupid or trollin.


No, not "everywhere".

Wikipedia: Driver's License

MD DMV: Driver's License

PA DMV: Driver's License

GA DDS: Driver's License

These are just the states I know firsthand, I'm sure other states use the apostrophe as well.


Mine says "Driver's License."  I'm looking at it right now.

/IL
 
2013-02-14 02:09:34 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Elegy: Elegy: Late to this party (and apologies if this has been posted), but I just want to point out that the wallet found near the border wasn't a case of sloppy reporting - it's listed as evidence in one of the sworn criminal complaints against Dorner.

Fulltext

Whoops, fark dumped the pic of the excerpt:

[i.imgur.com image 625x88]

ah ha!  "Identification cards".  But that could be his Costco ID.  It doesn't say driver license.


(shrug) Just offering a point of fact over and above the "sloppy initial reporting" argument and a link to the criminal complaint in case anyone is interested, you know, actual facts.

Make of it what you will. You people always do, anyways.
 
2013-02-14 02:09:47 PM  
(I know, it's two different cabins being discussed in the news article.  I just don't understand why Dorner would think that the cops wouldn't backtrack over ground they'd already covered, if given an opportunity to since he did leave two people alive to talk to the cops about his whereabouts and the direction he was heading.)

Since the cops were only knocking on doors (allegedly), anyway, would it have been better to stay at the apartment with the two people?
 
2013-02-14 02:09:52 PM  

Madbassist1: amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]

It's "Driver License" everywhere. Somebody is stupid or trollin.


In Virginia it's Driver's License. I dunno if that's the right way or wrong way, but considering how VA screws most things up, I'll go with wrong.
 
2013-02-14 02:10:05 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: tenpoundsofcheese: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire.

I doubt he shot himself in the head while lying on his back.
Nor do I think that if he was standing and shot himself in the head, that he would end up neatly lying on his back with his butt protecting the wallet from the flames.

But, you DO believe that a passport fell out of a man's belongings as the plane that he was hijacking plunged into a skyscraper and landed on the ground, intact, where investigators found it? Oooookay.


huh?  wtf are you saying?
 
2013-02-14 02:10:14 PM  
Mitch Taylor's Bro:
No Such Agency: Mitch Taylor's Bro:
Come on, man, you're better at logic than that. Dorner had a serious axe to grind against the LAPD. If they faked his death, one lucky TV news reader would be getting a phone call from Dorner as soon as the coroner "confirmed" that it was Dorner's body. "Um, yeah, about that guy the LAPD and LA coroner say is me? Yeah, not so much. Here's my 20-minute rant that I want you to break into 'Judge Judy' to air. Ready?"

Please... the Reverse Vampires own the TV stations.

I'm pretty sure they like "exclusives" and good ratings,  too. Or are you suggesting that...DORNER IS A REVERSE VAMPIRE????? [dun, dun, DUN!!!!]


Don't be absurd, he was traveling at NIGHT.  He's much more likely to be two Saucer People wearing a long overcoat.
 
2013-02-14 02:10:41 PM  

mizchief: vpb: It's funny how these carefully scripted conspiracies always involve really careless oversights like multiple wallets and phony shooting victim photographs.

At least we know that reporters never make lazy mistakes so obviously it's a conspiracy between Obama, the Israelis and the sekrit muslins.

Oh, and the UN too.

I think that is totally plausible and probable, but yet these questions will go unanswered. I want to know the truth as to how the happened regardless of what it might be. This is just like in Sandy Hook how conflicting reports came out about the AR-15 not being used and video showing it being pulled out of the trunk, or what happened with the guy the arrested out in the woods and have both an adult and child eyewitness on the news saying someone was handcuffed and placed in the front seat of a cop car.

It probably is just media screwing  up, but we deserve to know the truth of how this happens and the news agency held accountable for reporting false information.


They figured out that one, actually. He had a shotgun in the trunk of his car. Media taped it getting pulled out. Idiot reporter can't tell a 12-gauge from an AR-15. People don tinfoil hats. People who are familiar with the model of AR-15 in question can look at the video of the cop unloading the shotgun, and can point out the details that prove it's not an AR-15. Don't know anyone who does? Take it to a local gun store owner. Ask him to show you how you unload a Bushmaster AR-15.
 
2013-02-14 02:13:04 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-14 02:15:11 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: dittybopper: Heh, yeah it is.

A couple of problems:

1. Dorner wouldn't likely call the news to say "I'm not dead yet!", because it's useful for his mission for everyone to *THINK* he's dead. Police stop doggy-guarding his targets, and the police don't have itchy trigger fingers every time they see a large bald black man. He can go after them at his leisure, secure in the knowledge that they are no longer looking for him. Then, when he's done what he set out to do, he can just walk away.

2. What news reader would believe him anyway? He's officially dead. Probably some crackpot. They call us all the time. Bet before the call is over he references Bababooey.

Rebuttal 1: Yeah, but the cops KNOW he's alive, so while they might let their guard down a little, it would only be to allow the media, and by association, the public, to forget about the whole thing. Meanwhile, they continue hunting him and take him out a little more quietly. Then, in June, on pg. 23 of the LA Times, a little article appears, "Unnamed homeless man found dead under Santa Monica Freeway overpass. Cause of death, unknown."

Rebuttal 2: Ric Romero is actually a TV reporter in...dun, dun, DUN!!!... Los Angeles!!!~!!11!1!

:-)


The cops haven't let their guard down yet, so yeah. As for the public forgetting, I guess it matters which sectors of the public forget.

So anyway, how much is it going to cost to keep an indefinite security detail on everyone on the list and their families until 'there's nothing left to be done'?

FAnArticle:

Police will continue to protect dozens of officers and others Dorner threatened in his manifesto, Neiman said.

"The task force is still in place, and they will work until there's nothing left to be done," he said. "We don't just stop a murder case simply because we think that the suspect in that case" is dead.


As for not stopping a murder case, it is to laugh. I guess they only stop murder cases for us little people.  Get kicked in the face by a cop?  get shot up by a cop? get rammed by a cop? Get tased to death by a cop? Nothing to see here.

Look dirty at a cop? release the hounds.
 
2013-02-14 02:15:13 PM  

Mikey1969: . Also, the DMV doesn't let you keep your old license when they issue a new one.


Actually Wisconsin does let you keep your old ID/DL after you get a new one so you have one in case the other gets lost.  California may do the same as well.
 
2013-02-14 02:16:02 PM  

Elegy: tenpoundsofcheese: Elegy: Elegy: Late to this party (and apologies if this has been posted), but I just want to point out that the wallet found near the border wasn't a case of sloppy reporting - it's listed as evidence in one of the sworn criminal complaints against Dorner.

Fulltext

Whoops, fark dumped the pic of the excerpt:

[i.imgur.com image 625x88]

ah ha!  "Identification cards".  But that could be his Costco ID.  It doesn't say driver license.

(shrug) Just offering a point of fact over and above the "sloppy initial reporting" argument and a link to the criminal complaint in case anyone is interested, you know, actual facts.

Make of it what you will. You people always do, anyways.


sorry, I thought what you wrote was good.  Subby wrote "driver license" - you pointed out that it only said "identification card" which makes a lot more sense.
 
2013-02-14 02:16:20 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: DROxINxTHExWIND: tenpoundsofcheese: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire.

I doubt he shot himself in the head while lying on his back.
Nor do I think that if he was standing and shot himself in the head, that he would end up neatly lying on his back with his butt protecting the wallet from the flames.

But, you DO believe that a passport fell out of a man's belongings as the plane that he was hijacking plunged into a skyscraper and landed on the ground, intact, where investigators found it? Oooookay.

huh?  wtf are you saying?


I'm just comparing conspiracy theories. Many of the folks here talking about how impossible it would be for Dorner's ID to survive a fire have no problem swallowing the story about one of the 9/11 hijacker's passports being found in the rubble of two skyscrapers after the plane he was in smashed into one of them.
 
2013-02-14 02:16:53 PM  

LanceDearnis: mizchief: vpb: It's funny how these carefully scripted conspiracies always involve really careless oversights like multiple wallets and phony shooting victim photographs.

At least we know that reporters never make lazy mistakes so obviously it's a conspiracy between Obama, the Israelis and the sekrit muslins.

Oh, and the UN too.

I think that is totally plausible and probable, but yet these questions will go unanswered. I want to know the truth as to how the happened regardless of what it might be. This is just like in Sandy Hook how conflicting reports came out about the AR-15 not being used and video showing it being pulled out of the trunk, or what happened with the guy the arrested out in the woods and have both an adult and child eyewitness on the news saying someone was handcuffed and placed in the front seat of a cop car.

It probably is just media screwing  up, but we deserve to know the truth of how this happens and the news agency held accountable for reporting false information.

They figured out that one, actually. He had a shotgun in the trunk of his car. Media taped it getting pulled out. Idiot reporter can't tell a 12-gauge from an AR-15. People don tinfoil hats. People who are familiar with the model of AR-15 in question can look at the video of the cop unloading the shotgun, and can point out the details that prove it's not an AR-15. Don't know anyone who does? Take it to a local gun store owner. Ask him to show you how you unload a Bushmaster AR-15.


Much as I hate to defend the media( hear me out before youstart throwing things) the Izhmash Saiga does look a lot like an assault rifle. really doesnt look like a shotgun. But the video they used to incite the controversy does have the reporter saying, while the cops cleared the ammunition, that they cleared a "shell"... not a "bullet"... manufactured conspiracy is manufactured.
 
2013-02-14 02:17:41 PM  

Mija: On 9/11 the government claimed one of the highjackers paasports was found in the debri of the trade centers. Farkers defended that.


it was actually two, wasn't it?
 
2013-02-14 02:19:10 PM  

The One True TheDavid: Okay, okay. In KY it is "Driver's."


That's a really rough 35.
 
2013-02-14 02:19:31 PM  

cfroelic: namegoeshere: amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]

Huh. NY as well. Who knew?

I knew


In Kansas it's just "DL"
/spelling is hard and stuff
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-02-14 02:22:07 PM  
Captain Darling:
WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again. How the hell would it profit the LAPD to fake his death?

Obviously they want to cover up the fact that they killed him for no reason while he was shooting at them after he had murdered four people and threatened to kill more.  But they didn't want people to know that they killed him so they forged his license and planted it on his body so that people would think he was himself to cover it up.  That's why they couldn't announce the results of the autopsy before conducting the autopsy.

See?  It's a government conspiracy, just like Israeli commandos at Sandy Hook.
 
2013-02-14 02:23:16 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: tenpoundsofcheese: DROxINxTHExWIND: tenpoundsofcheese: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire.

I doubt he shot himself in the head while lying on his back.
Nor do I think that if he was standing and shot himself in the head, that he would end up neatly lying on his back with his butt protecting the wallet from the flames.

But, you DO believe that a passport fell out of a man's belongings as the plane that he was hijacking plunged into a skyscraper and landed on the ground, intact, where investigators found it? Oooookay.

huh?  wtf are you saying?

I'm just comparing conspiracy theories. Many of the folks here talking about how impossible it would be for Dorner's ID to survive a fire have no problem swallowing the story about one of the 9/11 hijacker's passports being found in the rubble of two skyscrapers after the plane he was in smashed into one of them.


Meh.  The 911 passport was found several blocks from the WTC, not in the ruble. I am not surprised that after a plane hits a building that it's contents would get thrown all over the place.  Momentum how does it work?
 
2013-02-14 02:24:03 PM  
abreucantina:  In Kansas it's just "DL"
/spelling is hard and stuff


In Oregon, it's "Card to operate that go-thingy -- you know, the one with four wheels."
 
2013-02-14 02:24:40 PM  

vpb: Ah yes. A photo of a truck. That clearly proves that there was a conspiracy to kill Dorner and then falsely claim that his body was his by forging his license.


It DOES show the restraint level that the LAPD was working with, however.  Enough they were willing to sling a mess 'o lead at a SUSPECT.  They were spoiling for a fight, and planned to kill that dude as soon as his head popped up.
 
2013-02-14 02:26:01 PM  

No Such Agency: Mitch Taylor's Bro:
No Such Agency: Mitch Taylor's Bro:
Come on, man, you're better at logic than that. Dorner had a serious axe to grind against the LAPD. If they faked his death, one lucky TV news reader would be getting a phone call from Dorner as soon as the coroner "confirmed" that it was Dorner's body. "Um, yeah, about that guy the LAPD and LA coroner say is me? Yeah, not so much. Here's my 20-minute rant that I want you to break into 'Judge Judy' to air. Ready?"

Please... the Reverse Vampires own the TV stations.

I'm pretty sure they like "exclusives" and good ratings,  too. Or are you suggesting that...DORNER IS A REVERSE VAMPIRE????? [dun, dun, DUN!!!!]

Don't be absurd, he was traveling at NIGHT.  He's much more likely to be two Saucer People wearing a long overcoat.


B-b-but...absurd is what I do best :-(
 
2013-02-14 02:28:12 PM  

fireclown: It DOES show the restraint level that the LAPD was working with, however.


It shows the actions of a couple of officers in a department of thousands.
 
2013-02-14 02:28:24 PM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Mitch Taylor's Bro: dittybopper: Heh, yeah it is.

A couple of problems:

1. Dorner wouldn't likely call the news to say "I'm not dead yet!", because it's useful for his mission for everyone to *THINK* he's dead. Police stop doggy-guarding his targets, and the police don't have itchy trigger fingers every time they see a large bald black man. He can go after them at his leisure, secure in the knowledge that they are no longer looking for him. Then, when he's done what he set out to do, he can just walk away.

2. What news reader would believe him anyway? He's officially dead. Probably some crackpot. They call us all the time. Bet before the call is over he references Bababooey.

Rebuttal 1: Yeah, but the cops KNOW he's alive, so while they might let their guard down a little, it would only be to allow the media, and by association, the public, to forget about the whole thing. Meanwhile, they continue hunting him and take him out a little more quietly. Then, in June, on pg. 23 of the LA Times, a little article appears, "Unnamed homeless man found dead under Santa Monica Freeway overpass. Cause of death, unknown."

Rebuttal 2: Ric Romero is actually a TV reporter in...dun, dun, DUN!!!... Los Angeles!!!~!!11!1!

:-)

The cops haven't let their guard down yet, so yeah. As for the public forgetting, I guess it matters which sectors of the public forget.

So anyway, how much is it going to cost to keep an indefinite security detail on everyone on the list and their families until 'there's nothing left to be done'?

FAnArticle:

Police will continue to protect dozens of officers and others Dorner threatened in his manifesto, Neiman said.

"The task force is still in place, and they will work until there's nothing left to be done," he said. "We don't just stop a murder case simply because we think that the suspect in that case" is dead.

As for not stopping a murder case, it is to laugh. I guess they only stop murder cases for us little people.  Get kicked in the face by a ...


Hey, we're playing a game here. Either contribute your own crazy conspiracy theory or GTFO ;-)

Hmm, maybe the reverse vampires are working WITH the saucer people. Holy shiat, EVERYBODY PANIC!
 
2013-02-14 02:29:44 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: DROxINxTHExWIND: tenpoundsofcheese: DROxINxTHExWIND: tenpoundsofcheese: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire.

I doubt he shot himself in the head while lying on his back.
Nor do I think that if he was standing and shot himself in the head, that he would end up neatly lying on his back with his butt protecting the wallet from the flames.

But, you DO believe that a passport fell out of a man's belongings as the plane that he was hijacking plunged into a skyscraper and landed on the ground, intact, where investigators found it? Oooookay.

huh?  wtf are you saying?

I'm just comparing conspiracy theories. Many of the folks here talking about how impossible it would be for Dorner's ID to survive a fire have no problem swallowing the story about one of the 9/11 hijacker's passports being found in the rubble of two skyscrapers after the plane he was in smashed into one of them.

Meh.  The 911 passport was found several blocks from the WTC, not in the ruble. I am not surprised that after a plane hits a building that it's contents would get thrown all over the place.  Momentum how does it work?


Sooooooo, the ID escaped the fireball that resulted from the collision, flew out of the building that the plane went into, landed several blocks away, and was found amongst the millions of pieces of paper that flew around after two office buildings were destroyed? And you think that's plausible? But, its not possible for a wallet to survive a house fire.

Lol. Ok.
 
2013-02-14 02:30:03 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.


The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died, they started on a vengeance rampage to prove a point to 'cop-killers'. Never mind that people die every day and they sometimes give no farks at all; this time they were willing to terrorize civilians, attach their name to borderline-racism,  SHOOT AT FARKING CIVILIANS, and finally kill Dorner in what is usually known as the most painful death possible.

Spontaneous combustion does not exist. Either bears have learned to use matches, or the LAPD knew they ran the risk of basically torturing a human being to death in the name of vengeance and pride. That is wrong. Dorner's crimes should have been punished, but what the LAPD has done is an affront to everything America should stand for.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about a dead man and more worrying about the people you're absolving of fairly unforgiveable sins. The people shot at in Dorner's name by the LAPD would thank you.
 
2013-02-14 02:31:28 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: He shot pigs, not innocent people.


cdn2-b.examiner.com
 
2013-02-14 02:34:45 PM  

MorePeasPlease: Smeggy Smurf: He shot pigs, not innocent people.


It won't show that I quoted the picture on my phone, but seriously. THIS.

Some of you guys are derping hard, and derping for keeps.
 
2013-02-14 02:36:50 PM  

mongbiohazard: dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: FOX News has the highest ratings and they are the least reputable. I don't think your theory stands up.

That doesn't refute my theory.  If anything, it confirms it.

*Processing*

Yeah, I see what you're saying here. But, you also have to mix credibility into that equation. No one is going to go to a news source that constantly gets it wrong.

People have a kind of selective amnesia about the news.  There is a name for it, but ironically I can't remember it right now.

Do you mean confirmation bias? Because Fox wouldn't exist without it.


No, it's named after someone.

It's the recognition that when you read a news story or watch one on TV about  something you are knowledgeable about, you notice they always get something fundamentally wrong, but you accept what they say as gospel if you don't have in-depth knowledge on the subject.

So, if you are a physicist and you notice they always get physics wrong, why should you trust their political reporting?  Or what they say about, say, health news.

Ah, here it is:   Gell-Mann Amnesia.
 
2013-02-14 02:38:12 PM  
Does anyone have links to stories referencing the licence being found in multiple locations? I can only find stories referring to the cabin...
 
2013-02-14 02:40:13 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Sooooooo, the ID escaped the fireball that resulted from the collision,
you think that the fireball happened at the moment of impact and started at the front of the plane where the passport probably was?   By the way, one of the other ID's was found in the luggage of someone who did not make one of the flights.  So it is just as likely that the passport found was in a piece of luggage on the plane that got ejected when the plane fell apart.flew out of the building that the plane went into, landed several blocks away, and was found amongst the millions of pieces of paper that flew around after two office buildings were destroyed?

If millions of pieces of paper survived, why do you think it is so hard to believe that a small passport survived?

And you think that's plausible? But, its not possible for a wallet to survive a house fire.

If a body is burned beyond recognition, I don't see it really likely that a plastic ID easily survives.
Unless you believe that he shot himself while lying down so that his butt would protect the ID from the flames.

 
2013-02-14 02:43:23 PM  

Madbassist1: the ha ha guy: Madbassist1: amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]

It's "Driver License" everywhere. Somebody is stupid or trollin.


No, not "everywhere".

Wikipedia: Driver's License

MD DMV: Driver's License

PA DMV: Driver's License

GA DDS: Driver's License

These are just the states I know firsthand, I'm sure other states use the apostrophe as well.

GODDAMIT SO MUCH!!! WRONG TWICE IN TWO farkING DAYS!!!!111!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH


I'm just going to leave this here...

www.cleverget.net
 
2013-02-14 02:45:39 PM  
If they bulldoze the site and lose evidence all within 2 weeks like they did at Waco, then I'll start believing in conspiracy.
 
2013-02-14 02:52:24 PM  
Just chiming in here on the grammar/title side show. Grammatically "Driver License" is the most correct because it is a document authorized the possessor as a "Driver". That being said "Driver's License" isn't really wrong either because the document is one that must be possessed by a legal driver. Or, more accurately, what I am trying to say is, "Yay English for being broken!"
 
2013-02-14 02:53:45 PM  

SheltemDragon: Just chiming in here on the grammar/title side show. Grammatically "Driver License" is the most correct because it is a document authorized the possessor as a "Driver". That being said "Driver's License" isn't really wrong either because the document is one that must be possessed by a legal driver. Or, more accurately, what I am trying to say is, "Yay English for being broken!"


authorizing..... yesh.
 
2013-02-14 02:54:40 PM  
Of course his wallet survived the fire, he lost it when he was trying to steal a boat in San Diego.

could be another wallet.. I guess.
a man's got to have a place to keep his shiat.

...and he definitely would want to keep his driver's license, in case he got pulled over or needed to open a bank account or something.
 
2013-02-14 02:57:38 PM  
If Dorner does pop up again and start killing people the authorities will just say the cabin fire was part of a plan to draw him out.  He proves he's still alive, they have another chance to nab him.

I've already heard suggestion the cop shot and killed near the cabin was due to "blue on blue", anyone else hear that and have link supporting it?  I wouldn't doubt that for a second given the situation with the shooting of the trucks.
 
2013-02-14 03:03:13 PM  

MorePeasPlease: Smeggy Smurf: He shot pigs, not innocent people.

[cdn2-b.examiner.com image 508x350]



Yeah... If he had shot the guy he had a beef with, her dad, he might have been more credible and I might have some measure of sympathy. But he shot his daughter. That right there undermines his credibilty quite well.

That said... it doesn't mean the LAPD are any less farked up and murderous... It just means this is a story of all villains.

dittybopper: No, it's named after someone.

It's the recognition that when you read a news story or watch one on TV about  something you are knowledgeable about, you notice they always get something fundamentally wrong, but you accept what they say as gospel if you don't have in-depth knowledge on the subject.

So, if you are a physicist and you notice they always get physics wrong, why should you trust their political reporting?  Or what they say about, say, health news.

Ah, here it is:   Gell-Mann Amnesia.


Thank you! That's a new one for me. Coined by Michael Crichton no less!

And as an avid consumer of C-Span - which has shown me on many occasions just how shoddy reporting in the media can often be - so I know exactly what Crichton was talking about with this. You can only listen to so many hearings or press conferences and then read a story which portrays the opposite of what you just heard before you wonder why you don't question the rest of their reporting more too...
 
2013-02-14 03:06:18 PM  

PsiChick: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died, they started on a vengeance rampage to prove a point to 'cop-killers'. Never mind that people die every day and they sometimes give no farks at all; this time they were willing to terrorize civilians, attach their name to borderline-racism,  SHOOT AT FARKING CIVILIANS, and finally kill Dorner in what is usually known as the most painful death possible.

Spontaneous combustion does not exist. Either bears have learned to use matches, or the LAPD knew they ran the risk of basically torturing a human being to death in the name of vengeance and pride. That is wrong. Dorner's crimes should have been punished, but what the LAPD has done is an affront to everything America should stand for.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about a dead man and more worrying about the people you're absolving of fairly unforgiveable sins. The people shot at in Dorner's name by the LAPD would thank you.


You expressed my entire thoughts on this case.  Everyone I know is either shouting "yeah! go cop killer!" or "Boo!  He deserved whatever he got" or simply ignoring the whole thing.  The issue is not whether he was a good or bad person but what we are willing to tolerate from the people who are supposed to be protecting us.  Dorner was mentally disturbed and should have been apprehended, tried, and punished but the behavior the LAPD displayed throughout this debacle is frankly terrifying.
 
2013-02-14 03:16:30 PM  

tiamet4: PsiChick: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died, they started on a vengeance rampage to prove a point to 'cop-killers'. Never mind that people die every day and they sometimes give no farks at all; this time they were willing to terrorize civilians, attach their name to borderline-racism,  SHOOT AT FARKING CIVILIANS, and finally kill Dorner in what is usually known as the most painful death possible.

Spontaneous combustion does not exist. Either bears have learned to use matches, or the LAPD knew they ran the risk of basically torturing a human being to death in the name of vengeance and pride. That is wrong. Dorner's crimes should have been punished, but what the LAPD has done is an affront to everything America should stand for.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about a dead man and more worrying about the people you're absolving of fairly unforgiveable sins. The people shot at in Dorner's name by the LAPD would thank you.

You expressed my entire thoughts on this case.  Everyone I know is either shouting "yeah! go cop killer!" or "Boo!  He deserved whatever he got" or simply ignoring the whole thing.  The issue is not whether he was ...


You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.
 
2013-02-14 03:20:16 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: tiamet4: PsiChick: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died, they started on a vengeance rampage to prove a point to 'cop-killers'. Never mind that people die every day and they sometimes give no farks at all; this time they were willing to terrorize civilians, attach their name to borderline-racism,  SHOOT AT FARKING CIVILIANS, and finally kill Dorner in what is usually known as the most painful death possible.

Spontaneous combustion does not exist. Either bears have learned to use matches, or the LAPD knew they ran the risk of basically torturing a human being to death in the name of vengeance and pride. That is wrong. Dorner's crimes should have been punished, but what the LAPD has done is an affront to everything America should stand for.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about a dead man and more worrying about the people you're absolving of fairly unforgiveable sins. The people shot at in Dorner's name by the LAPD would thank you.

You expressed my entire thoughts on this case.  Everyone I know is either shouting "yeah! go cop killer!" or "Boo!  He deserved whatever he got" or simply ignoring the whole thing.  The issue is not wheth ...


awesome screen name by the way.
"No, the money is IN the banana stand!"
 
2013-02-14 03:21:18 PM  

please: the money is in the banana stand: 2headedboy: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

No fark you. Just because many of us here believe that the police acted unlawfully doesn't mean we took the murdering asshole's side. This country has due process and it's important.  The police should never be the judge, jury and executioner.  NEVER.

The police should never kill a perpetrator who is shooting at them or has just exchanged a barrage of gun fire with them killing an officer? So the police should always risk their lives to apprehend someone who is actively, or just tried to kill them? Why should they? It is an entirely another issue if they just opened fire on a guy they thought was Dorner, or if he surrendered and was executed. All signs point to Dorner not willing to give up. Their options once they surrounded they house were to go in, and potentially be shot at or face booby traps - or wait him out and "hope" he gives up and doesn't run outside and start shooting at people - or kill himself. If he doesn't give up and just starves to death as a result, would then the cops be just as responsible for his death as they were for the fire?

Good thing he didn't have a hostage in there.


I am not defending their actions, just the challenging the blanket statement. I am curious to know how they knew there weren't any other people (or even animals) in the house before they ignited it.
 
2013-02-14 03:22:18 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.


Don't we train the police to respond to being shot at  differently than your average person? You know, so suicide-by-cop isn't a thing and justice is?

Or are we just throwing money at training programs to train thugs?
 
2013-02-14 03:24:47 PM  

I_C_Weener: If they bulldoze the site and lose evidence all within 2 weeks like they did at Waco, then I'll start believing in conspiracy.


They'll send all the burnt timber to china.
 
2013-02-14 03:29:52 PM  
I love these Dorner threads. The one about gun control was pretty good, I enjoyed the one about asymmetric warfare, but I have to say this one about grammar is nigh entertaining.
 
2013-02-14 03:34:16 PM  

PsiChick: the money is in the banana stand: You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.

Don't we train the police to respond to being shot at  differently than your average person? You know, so suicide-by-cop isn't a thing and justice is?

Or are we just throwing money at training programs to train thugs?


That's a BINGO!
 
2013-02-14 03:38:37 PM  

BuckTurgidson: PsiChick: the money is in the banana stand: You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.

Don't we train the police to respond to being shot at  differently than your average person? You know, so suicide-by-cop isn't a thing and justice is?

Or are we just throwing money at training programs to train thugs?

That's a BINGO!


...Well, yes, but we aren't supposed to  admit it...
 
2013-02-14 03:40:30 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Well, that would explain why he first laid down before shooting himself (a well known suicide technique)


Yeah, I'm not going to speculate on why he would have already been on the floor when the fire started, but the several hundred rounds fired into the structure hours earlier may have had something to do with it. Probably had something to do with why he didn't answer them or come out too.
 But again I can only say for certain that you'd be surprised what survives a structure fire, especially if it's a dense material or under something that would insulate it.
The only video I saw was the middle of the fire and it didn't seem to be particularly intense, and it burned for a long time, so it's not likely there was an accelerant, at least not a lot of it, involved.
Yes, I do think it was caused by the incindiary tear gas canisters.
I'm not really going to defend the police here, because fark this asshole.
 
2013-02-14 03:46:19 PM  

PsiChick: the money is in the banana stand: You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.

Don't we train the police to respond to being shot at  differently than your average person? You know, so suicide-by-cop isn't a thing and justice is?

Or are we just throwing money at training programs to train thugs?


So police should take being shot at like a man because after all, that's their job? Why the fark do you care about suicide by cop also? How is that NOT justice? Do you believe that under no circumstance cops should use deadly force even when faced with death themselves or the perpetrator injuring or killing more people?
 
2013-02-14 03:50:41 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: I am not defending their actions, just the challenging the blanket statement. I am curious to know how they knew there weren't any other people (or even animals) in the house before they ignited it.



They shot 6 innocent people while looking for him, several of which couldn't have been confused for him in a dark alley by a blind man wearing headphones (seriously, a blonde guy? TWO latin women - one 50 something and the other 70 something?). It's blatantly obvious they just didn't CARE if anyone else was in there.

Dorner was a villain, but the LAPD is actually the worse villain in all of this. Dorner is dead and gone. The LAPD still gets to murder and attempt to murder people with almost complete impugnity. Their actions were reckless and inexcusable and implicates the entire force as a bunch of corrupt, incompetent fools who desperately need to be held accountable.
 
2013-02-14 03:50:54 PM  

Mija: On 9/11 the government claimed one of the highjackers paasports was found in the debri of the trade centers. Farkers defended that.


I remember that.

www.midspark.net
 
2013-02-14 03:55:25 PM  

dittybopper: mizchief: It probably is just media screwing  up, but we deserve to know the truth of how this happens and the news agency held accountable for reporting false information.

You wanna know how it happens?

Money.

You see, news agencies are funded by advertising.  If a particular news agency can show higher ratings than its competitors, it can charge more money per unit of advertising.  In the news business, you get ratings by being the first with information.  It doesn't really seem to matter if it's *WRONG* information, so long as you get it out there first.  People want the most up-to-date information, and rarely does wrong information come back to seriously bite the news agency unless you can show they reported incorrect information intentionally, so the bias is towards getting information out as quickly as you can, with minimal fact checking, on breaking news stories.


THI$.

The only conspiracy in this world is money.
 
2013-02-14 03:59:01 PM  
They did not want him to talk. Why else would they open fire on innocents with nothing to go on? He was going to squeal like Ned Beatty.
 
2013-02-14 04:02:02 PM  

mongbiohazard: the money is in the banana stand: I am not defending their actions, just the challenging the blanket statement. I am curious to know how they knew there weren't any other people (or even animals) in the house before they ignited it.


They shot 6 innocent people while looking for him, several of which couldn't have been confused for him in a dark alley by a blind man wearing headphones (seriously, a blonde guy? TWO latin women - one 50 something and the other 70 something?). It's blatantly obvious they just didn't CARE if anyone else was in there.

Dorner was a villain, but the LAPD is actually the worse villain in all of this. Dorner is dead and gone. The LAPD still gets to murder and attempt to murder people with almost complete impugnity. Their actions were reckless and inexcusable and implicates the entire force as a bunch of corrupt, incompetent fools who desperately need to be held accountable.


I agree with what you are saying. Again, I am not defending the actions of the LAPD. I was challenging the blanket statement that under no circumstance should police "be judge jury and executioner" which in the context, meant using deadly force and killing perpetrators. The general consensus is that the police should apprehend suspects irregardless of the harm they pose to them, or others, and go through the court system. With regard to this case in particular, IF Dorner fired upon the cops without being first shot at, and IF the LAPD was absolutely sure that no other individuals (or pets) were inside the cabin, I don't have an issue with them smoking him out. If he walked outside guns blazing as a result, I don't care if the cops cut him down either. I don't understand how completely burning the cabin to the ground however was the best solution as whoever owned the property now has lost that and everything inside.
 
2013-02-14 04:03:27 PM  

Deep Contact: I_C_Weener: If they bulldoze the site and lose evidence all within 2 weeks like they did at Waco, then I'll start believing in conspiracy.

They'll send all the burnt timber to china.


I see what you did there.
 
2013-02-14 04:10:31 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: FOX News has the highest ratings and they are the least reputable. I don't think your theory stands up.

That doesn't refute my theory.  If anything, it confirms it.

*Processing*

Yeah, I see what you're saying here. But, you also have to mix credibility into that equation. No one is going to go to a news source that constantly gets it wrong.


They will if it consistently confirms their own pre-existing biases.
 
2013-02-14 04:11:52 PM  
Call me crazy, but isn't this exactly the reason the LAPD hasn't declared the body to be him yet?

Something about wanting to be 100% in the identification before saying they got him?
 
2013-02-14 04:20:10 PM  
Considering the track record of the press, which usually kicks out a lot of bogus information in the early stages of a high profile story, and some of the highly questionable actions that law enforcement took in this particular event, I find it disturbing that anyone who questions the validity of reports that IDs were found in multiple places (or any other discrepancies) are immediately written off as tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy nuts.

It's one thing to discard any proven factual information which later emerges and does not fit your personal interpretation of what happened, but rationally questioning apparently conflicting information is generally a sign of intelligence. It is more dangerous to accept everything one is told without questioning it, or at least testing it against basic logic.

There is certainly a middle ground between being a conspiracy nut (or truther) and a sheeple. It is possible to entertain a thought without being taken captive by it.
 
2013-02-14 04:24:30 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: fireclown: It DOES show the restraint level that the LAPD was working with, however.

It shows the actions of a couple of officers in a department of thousands.


If they don't take action regarding those officers, then it reflects on the department of thousands.

Either purge the shiatty cops, or you're all shiatty cops.
 
2013-02-14 04:45:59 PM  
That body will never be autopsied and a fatal, self inflicted gunshot wound will never be found. Bank on it.
 
2013-02-14 04:50:15 PM  

PsiChick: The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died,


Dorner did not kill a single member of LAPD.
 
2013-02-14 04:51:39 PM  
The Jazz band shooting did not happen, FYI. It was a hoax.

LAPD only innocently shot at 3 people, hitting 2, with a couple hundred rounds.

Thankfully, those people are on paid vacation now for their actions. So we're good, right?

At least there's no other incriminating eviden..."Burn that motherf***er down..." woops.
 
2013-02-14 05:01:29 PM  
I have to ask why he had his license in his wallet?  Was he planning on buying beer later or something and just flashing an ID reading "Charles Dorner".  I figured the man would at least have scored a fake off some guy who sold them to college kids.

/even if you hang onto your license, why keep it in your wallet?
//someone might get a glimpse of it as you were pulling cash out or something
 
2013-02-14 05:04:55 PM  

ha-ha-guy: I have to ask why he had his license in his wallet?  Was he planning on buying beer later or something and just flashing an ID reading "Charles Dorner".  I figured the man would at least have scored a fake off some guy who sold them to college kids.

/even if you hang onto your license, why keep it in your wallet?
//someone might get a glimpse of it as you were pulling cash out or something


I should mention, I assume Dorner did die in the cabin, but I'd still like to see LAPD get through tghe DNA test without farking that up.

/I assume they have this DNA to test against
//or at least dental records
 
2013-02-14 05:06:50 PM  

mongbiohazard: ExperianScaresCthulhu: If I was an executive branch official with a police force in my jurisdiction that behaved like that I'd be putting my foot so far up their collective asses that they'd taste my shoe polish. I'd be embarking on years of reforms and the resignations of everyone in charge.


The taste of Mongb's outrage is as sweet as the polish would be bitter. But no matter how solid your other qualifications may be, election to an executive office in a larger town or city without being endorsed by at least some of the jurisdiction's leading LEO's is difficult.  Frequently the winning candidate for mayor or top county official is an insider in part because that police/prosecutor endorsement is so important, one reason why the most successful prosecutors are often able to use that office as a step into elective office.  Defenders of this situation would say it makes sense because the executive is nominally in charge of enforcing the criminal laws.

/education by accident
 
2013-02-14 05:21:17 PM  

earthworm2.0: LanceDearnis: mizchief: vpb: It's funny how these carefully scripted conspiracies always involve really careless oversights like multiple wallets and phony shooting victim photographs.

At least we know that reporters never make lazy mistakes so obviously it's a conspiracy between Obama, the Israelis and the sekrit muslins.

Oh, and the UN too.

I think that is totally plausible and probable, but yet these questions will go unanswered. I want to know the truth as to how the happened regardless of what it might be. This is just like in Sandy Hook how conflicting reports came out about the AR-15 not being used and video showing it being pulled out of the trunk, or what happened with the guy the arrested out in the woods and have both an adult and child eyewitness on the news saying someone was handcuffed and placed in the front seat of a cop car.

It probably is just media screwing  up, but we deserve to know the truth of how this happens and the news agency held accountable for reporting false information.

They figured out that one, actually. He had a shotgun in the trunk of his car. Media taped it getting pulled out. Idiot reporter can't tell a 12-gauge from an AR-15. People don tinfoil hats. People who are familiar with the model of AR-15 in question can look at the video of the cop unloading the shotgun, and can point out the details that prove it's not an AR-15. Don't know anyone who does? Take it to a local gun store owner. Ask him to show you how you unload a Bushmaster AR-15.

Much as I hate to defend the media( hear me out before youstart throwing things) the Izhmash Saiga does look a lot like an assault rifle. really doesnt look like a shotgun. But the video they used to incite the controversy does have the reporter saying, while the cops cleared the ammunition, that they cleared a "shell"... not a "bullet"... manufactured conspiracy is manufactured.


You shouldn't defend them. If we were talking about your brother I'd say your defense is certainly valid, but news had a higher standard. They failed it.
 
2013-02-14 05:22:13 PM  
I recall reading that he had an accomplice. Who's to say it was actually him in the cabin? Multiple IDs scattered across a wide region seems to indicate misdirection. If it really wasn't him then he will either stay "dead" or use this time to plan a counter-attack. Whomever was in the cabin didn't deserve to be burned alive. Even Charles Manson got his trial. A man loses it because of police corruption, and dies in a corrupt manner makes a good story. People are also overlooking the fact that he had two previous concussions. I've mentioned this before, but severe depression is a symptom of post-concussion syndrome. It sometimes takes awhile to fully manifest. In the manifesto he said that he wanted his brain studied to show the effects of long-term depression. His depression was made worse due to the adversity he faced in a corrupt police department. For anyone one that's trying to "figure him out" then look no further than the concussions. It's also what happened to Chris Benoit years back.
 
2013-02-14 05:28:01 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: PsiChick: the money is in the banana stand: You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.

Don't we train the police to respond to being shot at  differently than your average person? You know, so suicide-by-cop isn't a thing and justice is?

Or are we just throwing money at training programs to train thugs?

So police should take being shot at like a man because after all, that's their job? Why the fark do you care about suicide by cop also? How is that NOT justice? Do you believe that under no circumstance cops should use deadly force even when faced with death themselves or the perpetrator injuring or killing more people?


No, I believe they should be rational enough to realize they were dealing with someone who was psychologically capable of being forced into surrender, and their job is to take any reasonable measure to get that surrender, not  throw a farking bomb in the house. And as far as suicide by cop being 'justice', dear lord, please stay the fark away from anyone who's mentally ill.

Krieghund: PsiChick: The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died,

Dorner did not kill a single member of LAPD.


I thought he killed someone initially? He got the daughter of a cop and a cop?

/Then again, I also heard there were hostages in the house, but they haven't been mentioned, so for the sake of my sanity I'll assume journalists were jumping the gun a bit on reporting lives endangered\taken by Dorner...
 
2013-02-14 05:51:58 PM  

PsiChick: No, I believe they should be rational enough to realize they were dealing with someone who was psychologically capable of being forced into surrender, and their job is to take any reasonable measure to get that surrender, not  throw a farking bomb in the house. And as far as suicide by cop being 'justice', dear lord, please stay the fark away from anyone who's mentally ill.



According to a claim by CNN, a U.S. Marshall spokesman told them that Dorner did try to leave, but he was pushed back inside...

Forty minutes later that same U.S. Marshal said that authorities are "not sure" if he ever came out.

(Scroll to the 8:34 and 9:14 PM updates)
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/police-checking-reports-that-ex -l apd-officer-dorner-sighted/

They didn't want a surrender, they didn't want him to have a chance to be punished in accordance with the law, they wanted him to suffer and die at their hands.
 
2013-02-14 05:52:54 PM  
I still have my original MD Driver's License from when I was 18 in 1981. I almost didn't get it because at the end of the course when you have to parallel park I looked in the mirror instead of turning my head around after tipping the cone in front of me. My driver's test in CA in 1987 was even more momentous: I almost got T-boned because the old Dodge Dart stalled out as I was pulling into the road.

I know first-hand how easy it is for incompetents to get licenses. E.g., it's a good thing I used different feet for the gas & brake even in automatics.

I haven't driven since I wrecked my (now ex-) GF's Geo Metro ~10 years ago but I still keep getting a Driver's License just in case I ever need a U-Haul or something. But here in KY they make you turn the old one in so I can't keep dying over & over.
 
2013-02-14 05:59:06 PM  

the ha ha guy: PsiChick: No, I believe they should be rational enough to realize they were dealing with someone who was psychologically capable of being forced into surrender, and their job is to take any reasonable measure to get that surrender, not  throw a farking bomb in the house. And as far as suicide by cop being 'justice', dear lord, please stay the fark away from anyone who's mentally ill.


According to a claim by CNN, a U.S. Marshall spokesman told them that Dorner did try to leave, but he was pushed back inside...

Forty minutes later that same U.S. Marshal said that authorities are "not sure" if he ever came out.

(Scroll to the 8:34 and 9:14 PM updates)
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/police-checking-reports-that-ex -l apd-officer-dorner-sighted/

They didn't want a surrender, they didn't want him to have a chance to be punished in accordance with the law, they wanted him to suffer and die at their hands.


...f**ck the LAPD. That is like the only thing I can think right now. F**k them. The FBI needs to fire anyone involved with that department and just start from farking scratch. Holy f**k.
 
2013-02-14 06:03:00 PM  
Popcorn Johnny:

I find it amusing how people draw from the action movies they've seen to come up with what they think happened.

But I've never seen Alien Vs. Predator.
 
2013-02-14 06:17:32 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.


you obviously know more about fire than law

so stick with talking about fire
 
2013-02-14 06:23:06 PM  

cretinbob: tenpoundsofcheese: Well, that would explain why he first laid down before shooting himself (a well known suicide technique)

Yeah, I'm not going to speculate on why he would have already been on the floor when the fire started, but the several hundred rounds fired into the structure hours earlier may have had something to do with it. Probably had something to do with why he didn't answer them or come out too.
 But again I can only say for certain that you'd be surprised what survives a structure fire, especially if it's a dense material or under something that would insulate it.
The only video I saw was the middle of the fire and it didn't seem to be particularly intense, and it burned for a long time, so it's not likely there was an accelerant, at least not a lot of it, involved.
Yes, I do think it was caused by the incindiary tear gas canisters.
I'm not really going to defend the police here, because fark this asshole.


Well, there was that account that says Dorner tried to exit through the back but was pushed back in.
 
2013-02-14 06:27:00 PM  
Local blog claims wallet found, Fox News claims LA Times claimed it was found.

You'll have to pull my leg harder than that.
 
2013-02-14 06:31:28 PM  
Bontesla:
Well, there was that account that says Dorner tried to exit through the back but was pushed back in.

At this point I've seen three different stories on various media outlets:

1. He tried to run out the door and was pushed back in, no one was hurt.
2a. Same as 1, but he killed one LEO.
2b. Same as 2, but he killed one LEO and injured another one.
3.  He never tried to come out.
 
2013-02-14 06:35:33 PM  
I think that they burned him on purpose. Also that at least one of the cop fatalities will prove to be blue on blue.
 
2013-02-14 06:36:59 PM  

KarmicDisaster: I think that they burned him on purpose. Also that at least one of the cop fatalities will prove to be blue on blue.


No way they'll ever admit to the last one.
 
2013-02-14 06:44:07 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Bontesla:
Well, there was that account that says Dorner tried to exit through the back but was pushed back in.

At this point I've seen three different stories on various media outlets:

1. He tried to run out the door and was pushed back in, no one was hurt.
2a. Same as 1, but he killed one LEO.
2b. Same as 2, but he killed one LEO and injured another one.
3.  He never tried to come out.


What are the odds they just murdered a homeless squatter?
 
2013-02-14 06:48:26 PM  

tiamet4: PsiChick: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died, they started on a vengeance rampage to prove a point to 'cop-killers'. Never mind that people die every day and they sometimes give no farks at all; this time they were willing to terrorize civilians, attach their name to borderline-racism,  SHOOT AT FARKING CIVILIANS, and finally kill Dorner in what is usually known as the most painful death possible.

Spontaneous combustion does not exist. Either bears have learned to use matches, or the LAPD knew they ran the risk of basically torturing a human being to death in the name of vengeance and pride. That is wrong. Dorner's crimes should have been punished, but what the LAPD has done is an affront to everything America should stand for.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about a dead man and more worrying about the people you're absolving of fairly unforgiveable sins. The people shot at in Dorner's name by the LAPD would thank you.

You expressed my entire thoughts on this case.  Everyone I know is either shouting "yeah! go cop killer!" or "Boo!  He deserved whatever he got" or simply ignoring the whole thing.  The issue is not whether he was a good or bad person but what we are willing to tolerate from the people who are supposed to be protecting us.  Dorner was mentally disturbed and should have been apprehended, tried, and punished but the behavior the LAPD displayed throughout this debacle is frankly terrifying.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ third
 
2013-02-14 06:51:04 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: mongbiohazard: the money is in the banana stand: I am not defending their actions, just the challenging the blanket statement. I am curious to know how they knew there weren't any other people (or even animals) in the house before they ignited it.


They shot 6 innocent people while looking for him, several of which couldn't have been confused for him in a dark alley by a blind man wearing headphones (seriously, a blonde guy? TWO latin women - one 50 something and the other 70 something?). It's blatantly obvious they just didn't CARE if anyone else was in there.

Dorner was a villain, but the LAPD is actually the worse villain in all of this. Dorner is dead and gone. The LAPD still gets to murder and attempt to murder people with almost complete impugnity. Their actions were reckless and inexcusable and implicates the entire force as a bunch of corrupt, incompetent fools who desperately need to be held accountable.

I agree with what you are saying. Again, I am not defending the actions of the LAPD. I was challenging the blanket statement that under no circumstance should police "be judge jury and executioner" which in the context, meant using deadly force and killing perpetrators. The general consensus is that the police should apprehend suspects irregardless of the harm they pose to them, or others, and go through the court system. With regard to this case in particular, IF Dorner fired upon the cops without being first shot at, and IF the LAPD was absolutely sure that no other individuals (or pets) were inside the cabin, I don't have an issue with them smoking him out. If he walked outside guns blazing as a result, I don't care if the cops cut him down either. I don't understand how completely burning the cabin to the ground however was the best solution as whoever owned the property now has lost that and everything inside.



You and I apparently do not disagree. I have absoluetly zero problem with police who shoot someone who is shooting at them. Now if they have him trapped somewhere, burning the place down is a totally different story... If he's surrounded in there though, then things are different. They can wait for him to surrender, wait for him to come out shooting and cut him down or if he's firing from a defensive position inside the structure let the snipers cut him down.

But burning someone's cabin down - risking a forest fire - is NOT what I expect from a lawful and legitimate police force in our country. But even that isn't the most outrageous part of the story. IMHO the outrageous part is the behavior of the police during the manhunt.


4tehsnowflakes: The taste of Mongb's outrage is as sweet as the polish would be bitter. But no matter how solid your other qualifications may be, election to an executive office in a larger town or city without being endorsed by at least some of the jurisdiction's leading LEO's is difficult.  Frequently the winning candidate for mayor or top county official is an insider in part because that police/prosecutor endorsement is so important, one reason why the most successful prosecutors are often able to use that office as a step into elective office.  Defenders of this situation would say it makes sense because the executive is nominally in charge of enforcing the criminal laws.

/education by accident



No disagreement here either. It's sad though. I can't believe that there isn't much more outrage over the behavior of the LAPD in this whole debacle. EVERYONE - including the police - needs a check on their power and the greater the power the greater the need for the check. If they do not have one then we are guaranteeing that they will abuse their power. Police, firefighters, senators, clergy, soldiers, chefs, baggage handlers..... we're all human beings and all of us are subject to corruption and temptation. People are disappointed by their heroes because we forget that they are human and imperfect, just like us.

Since 9/11 police have been lionized to such a ridiculous degree that real oversight or accountability of almost any kind seems to have all but vanished. I'm sure the trend started even earlier than that, with the "War on Drugs", in addition to the part of human nature where some significant percentage of us happily submit to those who claim to have authority over us without question.
 
2013-02-14 06:55:48 PM  

Nebulious: [i25.photobucket.com image 428x244]

Looks legit to me.


Oh sweet hell...thank you for the laugh. I needed that.
 
2013-02-14 06:58:12 PM  

earthworm2.0: How much evidence do they have that he was the one who killed the daughter and her boyfriend? I mean, he was obviously a suspect, but did he take pictures witht he dead bodies and post them on facebook, or is everyone jsut assuming it was him because of the manifesto?


because LAPD said so.

there were security cameras everywhere around those million dollar condominiums. but we only get security footage from a hotel in late January.
 
2013-02-14 07:00:29 PM  

the ha ha guy: PsiChick: No, I believe they should be rational enough to realize they were dealing with someone who was psychologically capable of being forced into surrender, and their job is to take any reasonable measure to get that surrender, not  throw a farking bomb in the house. And as far as suicide by cop being 'justice', dear lord, please stay the fark away from anyone who's mentally ill.


According to a claim by CNN, a U.S. Marshall spokesman told them that Dorner did try to leave, but he was pushed back inside...

Forty minutes later that same U.S. Marshal said that authorities are "not sure" if he ever came out.

(Scroll to the 8:34 and 9:14 PM updates)
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/police-checking-reports-that-ex -l apd-officer-dorner-sighted/

They didn't want a surrender, they didn't want him to have a chance to be punished in accordance with the law, they wanted him to suffer and die at their hands.


I remember hearing about that, which is why I mentioned it earlier.  So now they backtracked?  This country is going to the dogs.
 
2013-02-14 07:01:29 PM  
He was supposed to have been fired in 2008 yet somehow managed to keep his LAPD badge to conveniently throw in a bin last week?   Shenanigans.  If the LAPD have that kind of internal security I think the beatings will not only continue but you have a lot more to worry about than you thought you had.

There's much more to this than meets the eye and LAPD are trying to avoid whatever it is coming out.

I REALLY like the tunnel under the cabin idea...
 
2013-02-14 07:29:06 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: tiamet4: PsiChick: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died, they started on a vengeance rampage to prove a point to 'cop-killers'. Never mind that people die every day and they sometimes give no farks at all; this time they were willing to terrorize civilians, attach their name to borderline-racism,  SHOOT AT FARKING CIVILIANS, and finally kill Dorner in what is usually known as the most painful death possible.

Spontaneous combustion does not exist. Either bears have learned to use matches, or the LAPD knew they ran the risk of basically torturing a human being to death in the name of vengeance and pride. That is wrong. Dorner's crimes should have been punished, but what the LAPD has done is an affront to everything America should stand for.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about a dead man and more worrying about the people you're absolving of fairly unforgiveable sins. The people shot at in Dorner's name by the LAPD would thank you.

You expressed my entire thoughts on this case.  Everyone I know is either shouting "yeah! go cop killer!" or "Boo!  He deserved whatever he got" or simply ignoring the whole thing.  The issue is not whether he was ...

You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.


The cops shooting on the civilians is troubling. Is it a sign of corruption? No, but it is a sign.
 
2013-02-14 07:42:48 PM  

the ha ha guy: PsiChick: No, I believe they should be rational enough to realize they were dealing with someone who was psychologically capable of being forced into surrender, and their job is to take any reasonable measure to get that surrender, not  throw a farking bomb in the house. And as far as suicide by cop being 'justice', dear lord, please stay the fark away from anyone who's mentally ill.


According to a claim by CNN, a U.S. Marshall spokesman told them that Dorner did try to leave, but he was pushed back inside...

Forty minutes later that same U.S. Marshal said that authorities are "not sure" if he ever came out.

(Scroll to the 8:34 and 9:14 PM updates)
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/police-checking-reports-that-ex -l apd-officer-dorner-sighted/

They didn't want a surrender, they didn't want him to have a chance to be punished in accordance with the law, they wanted him to suffer and die at their hands.


But what does, "Dorner did try to leave...." mean?

Did he throw his guns down and come out weeping for his very life, as you so wholeheartedly proclaim?

Or, did he come out guns blazing?

All we know so far has changed every damn day since this whole thing started. I think I'll avoid jumping to my conclusion for a wee bit longer yet.
 
2013-02-14 07:47:43 PM  

Ace Rimmer: the ha ha guy: PsiChick: No, I believe they should be rational enough to realize they were dealing with someone who was psychologically capable of being forced into surrender, and their job is to take any reasonable measure to get that surrender, not  throw a farking bomb in the house. And as far as suicide by cop being 'justice', dear lord, please stay the fark away from anyone who's mentally ill.


According to a claim by CNN, a U.S. Marshall spokesman told them that Dorner did try to leave, but he was pushed back inside...

Forty minutes later that same U.S. Marshal said that authorities are "not sure" if he ever came out.

(Scroll to the 8:34 and 9:14 PM updates)
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/police-checking-reports-that-ex -l apd-officer-dorner-sighted/

They didn't want a surrender, they didn't want him to have a chance to be punished in accordance with the law, they wanted him to suffer and die at their hands.

But what does, "Dorner did try to leave...." mean?

Did he throw his guns down and come out weeping for his very life, as you so wholeheartedly proclaim?

Or, did he come out guns blazing?

All we know so far has changed every damn day since this whole thing started. I think I'll avoid jumping to my conclusion for a wee bit longer yet.


I don't think more time will provide any additional clarity. The person who could piece the most together was burned to death...
 
2013-02-14 07:50:42 PM  

Bontesla: What are the odds they just murdered a homeless squatter?


Zero.
If he was a squatter, then he wasn't homeless.
 
2013-02-14 07:54:11 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Bontesla: What are the odds they just murdered a homeless squatter?

Zero.
If he was a squatter, then he wasn't homeless.


Well, the remains have been identified as Dorner's... So that kind of makes this road pointless. But homeless people have been caught squatting in empty structures before. They're still considered homeless.
 
2013-02-14 07:58:13 PM  
I've run out of tinfoil so here's the dribble trickling out my ears:

My insane theory is that the guy had hard evidence of something going on in the LAPD on a grand scale (I'm thinking orchestrated slave trafficking, sex slavery, murder for hire, etc). All the things being "said" by him are done on social media (correct me if I've missed something), which we all know is impervious to hacking (insert sarcasm).

The only way I'd personally believe he attacked first is to have heard the man ranting and raving. Video of his own mouth moving, his own voice speaking.

They made it clear they had no intention of catching him alive. I think it had little to do with being a "cop killer."

Crazy biatch in Eugene Oregon killed a cop at a traffic stop few years ago and drove off. There was a manhunt. They caught her alive. Socop killing =\= kill insight by default.

Now that he's dead (if you believe he died in the fire), the only word we have is the LAPD's. and we all know all cops tell nothing but the truth (more dripping sarcasm).

Now I'm off to the store for more aluminum foil.
 
2013-02-14 08:24:49 PM  

acaciaavenue: You can apply for your license and claim it got lost in the mail. They will send you a duplicate. It's pretty easy.


Maybe the only conspiracy was Dorner's. He kills a couple of people after writing his manifesto, steals a boat (why did he need to tell the boat owner where he was going and then leave him there tied up?), goes up the coast a couple of miles and hides the boat, giving him a window of time while cops spent their time patrolling the border. Hide for a while, and then break out and kill a few more cops.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they really did find three separate, legitimate IDs of Dorner's. He wanted them to find them, at least the one by the boat.
 
2013-02-14 08:40:28 PM  

Bontesla: Well, the remains have been identified as Dorner's...



The remains were positively identified, then denied to exist, then confirmed to exist but too hot to retrieve, then retrieved but would take weeks to identify, then they found an intact wallet confirming his identity, now they confirm the remains through dental records...

Not that I doubt that Dorner died in the fire, but at this point I'm not accepting any news related to this case as even remotely plausible until it goes at least 24 hours without a retraction.
 
2013-02-14 09:09:50 PM  

Bontesla: tenpoundsofcheese: Bontesla: What are the odds they just murdered a homeless squatter?

Zero.
If he was a squatter, then he wasn't homeless.

Well, the remains have been identified as Dorner's... So that kind of makes this road pointless. But homeless people have been caught squatting in empty structures before. They're still considered homeless.


Then he would have been a homeless man who stole two vehicles and shot at a bunch of cops on the wrong farking day.
 
2013-02-14 09:32:10 PM  
Last week would have been a great time to buy some stock in Reynolds Group Holdings.

You know, it is entirely possible that this is a simple case of a madman embarking on a killing spree, resulting in first some extremely idiotic moves by the police and, ultimately, the madman's death. What f*cking sense would it make for the LAPD to ID the charred remains as Dorner if, in fact, it's not Dorner?
 
2013-02-14 09:50:21 PM  
i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-02-14 10:20:41 PM  
Goddamit, people. 'Driver's License' makes sense. It is a license that belongs to a driver. Therefore, the possessive 'Driver's License'.

'Drivers License' makes no sense, unless you assume a collective ownership of one license by the entire community (or at least a plurality) of 'drivers'. As if to say, one license will cover multiple drivers (plural).

I hope this puts an end to this nonsense.
 
2013-02-14 10:25:22 PM  

Samwise Gamgee: Goddamit, people. 'Driver's License' makes sense. It is a license that belongs to a driver. Therefore, the possessive 'Driver's License'.

'Drivers License' makes no sense, unless you assume a collective ownership of one license by the entire community (or at least a plurality) of 'drivers'. As if to say, one license will cover multiple drivers (plural).

I hope this puts an end to this nonsense.


It's a license. For drivers.
 
2013-02-14 11:07:24 PM  

cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No...it's not driver, or drivers, but driver's.

/apostrophes, how do they work?
 
2013-02-14 11:26:24 PM  

cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


1) Maryland: "Driver's License"

2) California: "Driver License"

3) Colorado: "Driver's License"

• A person's license to drive. A driver's license to drive. Shortened to: A driver's license. Or a driving license.
• A person's license to fish. A fisherman's license to fish. Shortened to: A fisherman's license. Or a fishing license.
• A person's license to hunt. A hunter's license to hunt. Shortened to: A hunter's license. Or a hunting license.

"Driver License" is a botched version of the shortened form of a "driver's license to drive."
 
2013-02-15 02:04:35 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: He shot pigs, not innocent people.


He alleged shot a cop's non-cop daughter and her fiance.  Even if you assume all cops are pigs and all pigs are guilty, that's at least 1.5 innocent people.
 
2013-02-15 06:10:26 AM  

the ha ha guy: Bontesla: Well, the remains have been identified as Dorner's...


The remains were positively identified, then denied to exist, then confirmed to exist but too hot to retrieve, then retrieved but would take weeks to identify, then they found an intact wallet confirming his identity, now they confirm the remains through dental records...

Not that I doubt that Dorner died in the fire, but at this point I'm not accepting any news related to this case as even remotely plausible until it goes at least 24 hours without a retraction.


Yeah. Unfortunately, I doubt the coroner will be releasing any clarifications. So, unless he surfaces again (in a very public way) - then...

I suppose the LAPD's behavior could tell us something but such actions are always left to interpretation. Those looking for evidence will surely find it.
 
2013-02-15 06:11:47 AM  

Owangotang: Last week would have been a great time to buy some stock in Reynolds Group Holdings.

You know, it is entirely possible that this is a simple case of a madman embarking on a killing spree, resulting in first some extremely idiotic moves by the police and, ultimately, the madman's death. What f*cking sense would it make for the LAPD to ID the charred remains as Dorner if, in fact, it's not Dorner?


You really cannot think of any reason officers would be inclined to lie?
 
2013-02-15 09:16:35 AM  
So, Dorner was burning to death and instead of curling up in a ball like most people would do as they died, he laid flat on his back like he was getting a freaking tan?
Bullshiat.

He had already been shot when they shoved him back in and lit the cabin.

This story stinks from the bottom to the top.
 
2013-02-15 10:11:14 AM  
If he got multiple valid copies of his license (not hard to do), the DMV would have record of issing them, wouldn't they?
 
2013-02-15 09:09:46 PM  

ReverendJasen: If he got multiple valid copies of his license (not hard to do), the DMV would have record of issing them, wouldn't they?


For investigative reporters:

Dont go researching this until the DMV has a chance to create the entries.
 
2013-02-16 04:14:03 AM  
wai..wai..wait....

Why argue IF it was the wrong thing to do, to chase a brotha up into a cabin, DURING Obama's State of the Union address, set it on fire ( which is what they planned to do, it's on the scanner audio ) and watch SOMEONE burn to death without lifting so much as a finger to do anything aboit it? Let's not discount the fact that the Feds themself said there were possible hostages and STILL planned to burn it down, anything to stay on narraive and make all the lies true..

What I'd like to address is the circumstances that lead to it. No, not the fact that Dorner was NEVER linked to the origional killings, which occured in a building with a card-kay locked, internally secured with computer ID system, and CCTV camera, internal elevator core to even get to where it happend... lets forget that in inception NOTHING had been proven, no evidence even presented.. Irvine police had just stated they 'had no clue' the night before and then a FACEBOOK POST came from a computer he hadn't used in months from an account the Feds had siezed...and suddenly he was a terrorist, case solved, call the drones, judge-jury-executioner tiems..

No, not THAT part which put killer deathbots in our skies..I mean THIS hapening that ended up with a lynch mob burning a brotha to death in a remote, press-blacked out cabin..

BUT It all started in front of a news crew less than a block from a command post...yes, it did, snd there is full audio...stay with me... where a black male, dressed in fatigues etc (dress like a target two weeks later? common now), walks up in front of cameras and leaves audo of...

"HEY YOU!! COMMERE'" - cop

"Who? Me?" - shooter

You really think Dorner, walking up to multiple news crews in cammo and all scary looking would have taken time to have that exchage?

Whoever it was picked the cop with the biggest jackboots and kicked him, in front of the camera...and then killed him.. Tough is as tough does just like racist is as racist does..

Don't foget he'd just come in contact with a Game Warden who came out just fine. Funny how when tou don't poop yer pampers and start spraying rounds like this cop did, less people die..

The audo shows it's all pistol fire, the ofdicer, you hear the suspect much later...so their lies about 'babykillaclipassautazine' rifuls was a lie, them saying they didn't set the fire was a lie (have audio), the two 'cops' he shot were strutting it for the cameras, juicy target for rage. Racist is as racist does. You can practically hear the Jackboots clacking in rythum.

The other two cops before? The ones that the media convicted him of? They were an hour and half apart, the shootings happened within 8 minutes of one another.

One was a SWAT T.O. with a rook, parked at a light. Vet died, rook lives to tell the tale...

Other one was pulling over a car, guy shot at em and ran.

Oh and the 'poor girl' had a daddy who got fired after 'retiring' from LAPD just after recieving the 'first ever Asian to make Captain. Notice he got REAL quiet. Yakuza? The condos were multi million dollar units where the _assistant basketball coach_ lived with her Kia driving _security guard_ boyfriend of 3 years.. must pay better there than here..

It's called Gall-Mann amnesia syndrome and you all have it. Stop believing people who have no clue what they're talking about when they talk about things they know nothing about.. aka.. the media, cops and comments... dig for yourself..

/aaaandI'm out
//yeauea tl;dr, I type fast..
 
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