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(Gawker)   Apparently some people question how a fire could burn a human body beyond recognition while leaving a perfectly intact drivers license handily available. Fark: The third copy of the license found in a week   (gawker.com) divider line 281
    More: Unlikely, Christopher Dorner, diplomatic recognition, Lindbergh Field, conspiracy theorists  
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20242 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2013 at 12:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-14 02:34:45 PM  

MorePeasPlease: Smeggy Smurf: He shot pigs, not innocent people.


It won't show that I quoted the picture on my phone, but seriously. THIS.

Some of you guys are derping hard, and derping for keeps.
 
2013-02-14 02:36:50 PM  

mongbiohazard: dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: FOX News has the highest ratings and they are the least reputable. I don't think your theory stands up.

That doesn't refute my theory.  If anything, it confirms it.

*Processing*

Yeah, I see what you're saying here. But, you also have to mix credibility into that equation. No one is going to go to a news source that constantly gets it wrong.

People have a kind of selective amnesia about the news.  There is a name for it, but ironically I can't remember it right now.

Do you mean confirmation bias? Because Fox wouldn't exist without it.


No, it's named after someone.

It's the recognition that when you read a news story or watch one on TV about  something you are knowledgeable about, you notice they always get something fundamentally wrong, but you accept what they say as gospel if you don't have in-depth knowledge on the subject.

So, if you are a physicist and you notice they always get physics wrong, why should you trust their political reporting?  Or what they say about, say, health news.

Ah, here it is:   Gell-Mann Amnesia.
 
2013-02-14 02:38:12 PM  
Does anyone have links to stories referencing the licence being found in multiple locations? I can only find stories referring to the cabin...
 
2013-02-14 02:40:13 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Sooooooo, the ID escaped the fireball that resulted from the collision,
you think that the fireball happened at the moment of impact and started at the front of the plane where the passport probably was?   By the way, one of the other ID's was found in the luggage of someone who did not make one of the flights.  So it is just as likely that the passport found was in a piece of luggage on the plane that got ejected when the plane fell apart.flew out of the building that the plane went into, landed several blocks away, and was found amongst the millions of pieces of paper that flew around after two office buildings were destroyed?

If millions of pieces of paper survived, why do you think it is so hard to believe that a small passport survived?

And you think that's plausible? But, its not possible for a wallet to survive a house fire.

If a body is burned beyond recognition, I don't see it really likely that a plastic ID easily survives.
Unless you believe that he shot himself while lying down so that his butt would protect the ID from the flames.

 
2013-02-14 02:43:23 PM  

Madbassist1: the ha ha guy: Madbassist1: amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]

It's "Driver License" everywhere. Somebody is stupid or trollin.


No, not "everywhere".

Wikipedia: Driver's License

MD DMV: Driver's License

PA DMV: Driver's License

GA DDS: Driver's License

These are just the states I know firsthand, I'm sure other states use the apostrophe as well.

GODDAMIT SO MUCH!!! WRONG TWICE IN TWO farkING DAYS!!!!111!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH


I'm just going to leave this here...

www.cleverget.net
 
2013-02-14 02:45:39 PM  
If they bulldoze the site and lose evidence all within 2 weeks like they did at Waco, then I'll start believing in conspiracy.
 
2013-02-14 02:52:24 PM  
Just chiming in here on the grammar/title side show. Grammatically "Driver License" is the most correct because it is a document authorized the possessor as a "Driver". That being said "Driver's License" isn't really wrong either because the document is one that must be possessed by a legal driver. Or, more accurately, what I am trying to say is, "Yay English for being broken!"
 
2013-02-14 02:53:45 PM  

SheltemDragon: Just chiming in here on the grammar/title side show. Grammatically "Driver License" is the most correct because it is a document authorized the possessor as a "Driver". That being said "Driver's License" isn't really wrong either because the document is one that must be possessed by a legal driver. Or, more accurately, what I am trying to say is, "Yay English for being broken!"


authorizing..... yesh.
 
2013-02-14 02:54:40 PM  
Of course his wallet survived the fire, he lost it when he was trying to steal a boat in San Diego.

could be another wallet.. I guess.
a man's got to have a place to keep his shiat.

...and he definitely would want to keep his driver's license, in case he got pulled over or needed to open a bank account or something.
 
2013-02-14 02:57:38 PM  
If Dorner does pop up again and start killing people the authorities will just say the cabin fire was part of a plan to draw him out.  He proves he's still alive, they have another chance to nab him.

I've already heard suggestion the cop shot and killed near the cabin was due to "blue on blue", anyone else hear that and have link supporting it?  I wouldn't doubt that for a second given the situation with the shooting of the trucks.
 
2013-02-14 03:03:13 PM  

MorePeasPlease: Smeggy Smurf: He shot pigs, not innocent people.

[cdn2-b.examiner.com image 508x350]



Yeah... If he had shot the guy he had a beef with, her dad, he might have been more credible and I might have some measure of sympathy. But he shot his daughter. That right there undermines his credibilty quite well.

That said... it doesn't mean the LAPD are any less farked up and murderous... It just means this is a story of all villains.

dittybopper: No, it's named after someone.

It's the recognition that when you read a news story or watch one on TV about  something you are knowledgeable about, you notice they always get something fundamentally wrong, but you accept what they say as gospel if you don't have in-depth knowledge on the subject.

So, if you are a physicist and you notice they always get physics wrong, why should you trust their political reporting?  Or what they say about, say, health news.

Ah, here it is:   Gell-Mann Amnesia.


Thank you! That's a new one for me. Coined by Michael Crichton no less!

And as an avid consumer of C-Span - which has shown me on many occasions just how shoddy reporting in the media can often be - so I know exactly what Crichton was talking about with this. You can only listen to so many hearings or press conferences and then read a story which portrays the opposite of what you just heard before you wonder why you don't question the rest of their reporting more too...
 
2013-02-14 03:06:18 PM  

PsiChick: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died, they started on a vengeance rampage to prove a point to 'cop-killers'. Never mind that people die every day and they sometimes give no farks at all; this time they were willing to terrorize civilians, attach their name to borderline-racism,  SHOOT AT FARKING CIVILIANS, and finally kill Dorner in what is usually known as the most painful death possible.

Spontaneous combustion does not exist. Either bears have learned to use matches, or the LAPD knew they ran the risk of basically torturing a human being to death in the name of vengeance and pride. That is wrong. Dorner's crimes should have been punished, but what the LAPD has done is an affront to everything America should stand for.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about a dead man and more worrying about the people you're absolving of fairly unforgiveable sins. The people shot at in Dorner's name by the LAPD would thank you.


You expressed my entire thoughts on this case.  Everyone I know is either shouting "yeah! go cop killer!" or "Boo!  He deserved whatever he got" or simply ignoring the whole thing.  The issue is not whether he was a good or bad person but what we are willing to tolerate from the people who are supposed to be protecting us.  Dorner was mentally disturbed and should have been apprehended, tried, and punished but the behavior the LAPD displayed throughout this debacle is frankly terrifying.
 
2013-02-14 03:16:30 PM  

tiamet4: PsiChick: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died, they started on a vengeance rampage to prove a point to 'cop-killers'. Never mind that people die every day and they sometimes give no farks at all; this time they were willing to terrorize civilians, attach their name to borderline-racism,  SHOOT AT FARKING CIVILIANS, and finally kill Dorner in what is usually known as the most painful death possible.

Spontaneous combustion does not exist. Either bears have learned to use matches, or the LAPD knew they ran the risk of basically torturing a human being to death in the name of vengeance and pride. That is wrong. Dorner's crimes should have been punished, but what the LAPD has done is an affront to everything America should stand for.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about a dead man and more worrying about the people you're absolving of fairly unforgiveable sins. The people shot at in Dorner's name by the LAPD would thank you.

You expressed my entire thoughts on this case.  Everyone I know is either shouting "yeah! go cop killer!" or "Boo!  He deserved whatever he got" or simply ignoring the whole thing.  The issue is not whether he was ...


You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.
 
2013-02-14 03:20:16 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: tiamet4: PsiChick: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died, they started on a vengeance rampage to prove a point to 'cop-killers'. Never mind that people die every day and they sometimes give no farks at all; this time they were willing to terrorize civilians, attach their name to borderline-racism,  SHOOT AT FARKING CIVILIANS, and finally kill Dorner in what is usually known as the most painful death possible.

Spontaneous combustion does not exist. Either bears have learned to use matches, or the LAPD knew they ran the risk of basically torturing a human being to death in the name of vengeance and pride. That is wrong. Dorner's crimes should have been punished, but what the LAPD has done is an affront to everything America should stand for.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about a dead man and more worrying about the people you're absolving of fairly unforgiveable sins. The people shot at in Dorner's name by the LAPD would thank you.

You expressed my entire thoughts on this case.  Everyone I know is either shouting "yeah! go cop killer!" or "Boo!  He deserved whatever he got" or simply ignoring the whole thing.  The issue is not wheth ...


awesome screen name by the way.
"No, the money is IN the banana stand!"
 
2013-02-14 03:21:18 PM  

please: the money is in the banana stand: 2headedboy: Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

No fark you. Just because many of us here believe that the police acted unlawfully doesn't mean we took the murdering asshole's side. This country has due process and it's important.  The police should never be the judge, jury and executioner.  NEVER.

The police should never kill a perpetrator who is shooting at them or has just exchanged a barrage of gun fire with them killing an officer? So the police should always risk their lives to apprehend someone who is actively, or just tried to kill them? Why should they? It is an entirely another issue if they just opened fire on a guy they thought was Dorner, or if he surrendered and was executed. All signs point to Dorner not willing to give up. Their options once they surrounded they house were to go in, and potentially be shot at or face booby traps - or wait him out and "hope" he gives up and doesn't run outside and start shooting at people - or kill himself. If he doesn't give up and just starves to death as a result, would then the cops be just as responsible for his death as they were for the fire?

Good thing he didn't have a hostage in there.


I am not defending their actions, just the challenging the blanket statement. I am curious to know how they knew there weren't any other people (or even animals) in the house before they ignited it.
 
2013-02-14 03:22:18 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.


Don't we train the police to respond to being shot at  differently than your average person? You know, so suicide-by-cop isn't a thing and justice is?

Or are we just throwing money at training programs to train thugs?
 
2013-02-14 03:24:47 PM  

I_C_Weener: If they bulldoze the site and lose evidence all within 2 weeks like they did at Waco, then I'll start believing in conspiracy.


They'll send all the burnt timber to china.
 
2013-02-14 03:29:52 PM  
I love these Dorner threads. The one about gun control was pretty good, I enjoyed the one about asymmetric warfare, but I have to say this one about grammar is nigh entertaining.
 
2013-02-14 03:34:16 PM  

PsiChick: the money is in the banana stand: You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.

Don't we train the police to respond to being shot at  differently than your average person? You know, so suicide-by-cop isn't a thing and justice is?

Or are we just throwing money at training programs to train thugs?


That's a BINGO!
 
2013-02-14 03:38:37 PM  

BuckTurgidson: PsiChick: the money is in the banana stand: You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.

Don't we train the police to respond to being shot at  differently than your average person? You know, so suicide-by-cop isn't a thing and justice is?

Or are we just throwing money at training programs to train thugs?

That's a BINGO!


...Well, yes, but we aren't supposed to  admit it...
 
2013-02-14 03:40:30 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Well, that would explain why he first laid down before shooting himself (a well known suicide technique)


Yeah, I'm not going to speculate on why he would have already been on the floor when the fire started, but the several hundred rounds fired into the structure hours earlier may have had something to do with it. Probably had something to do with why he didn't answer them or come out too.
 But again I can only say for certain that you'd be surprised what survives a structure fire, especially if it's a dense material or under something that would insulate it.
The only video I saw was the middle of the fire and it didn't seem to be particularly intense, and it burned for a long time, so it's not likely there was an accelerant, at least not a lot of it, involved.
Yes, I do think it was caused by the incindiary tear gas canisters.
I'm not really going to defend the police here, because fark this asshole.
 
2013-02-14 03:46:19 PM  

PsiChick: the money is in the banana stand: You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.

Don't we train the police to respond to being shot at  differently than your average person? You know, so suicide-by-cop isn't a thing and justice is?

Or are we just throwing money at training programs to train thugs?


So police should take being shot at like a man because after all, that's their job? Why the fark do you care about suicide by cop also? How is that NOT justice? Do you believe that under no circumstance cops should use deadly force even when faced with death themselves or the perpetrator injuring or killing more people?
 
2013-02-14 03:50:41 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: I am not defending their actions, just the challenging the blanket statement. I am curious to know how they knew there weren't any other people (or even animals) in the house before they ignited it.



They shot 6 innocent people while looking for him, several of which couldn't have been confused for him in a dark alley by a blind man wearing headphones (seriously, a blonde guy? TWO latin women - one 50 something and the other 70 something?). It's blatantly obvious they just didn't CARE if anyone else was in there.

Dorner was a villain, but the LAPD is actually the worse villain in all of this. Dorner is dead and gone. The LAPD still gets to murder and attempt to murder people with almost complete impugnity. Their actions were reckless and inexcusable and implicates the entire force as a bunch of corrupt, incompetent fools who desperately need to be held accountable.
 
2013-02-14 03:50:54 PM  

Mija: On 9/11 the government claimed one of the highjackers paasports was found in the debri of the trade centers. Farkers defended that.


I remember that.

www.midspark.net
 
2013-02-14 03:55:25 PM  

dittybopper: mizchief: It probably is just media screwing  up, but we deserve to know the truth of how this happens and the news agency held accountable for reporting false information.

You wanna know how it happens?

Money.

You see, news agencies are funded by advertising.  If a particular news agency can show higher ratings than its competitors, it can charge more money per unit of advertising.  In the news business, you get ratings by being the first with information.  It doesn't really seem to matter if it's *WRONG* information, so long as you get it out there first.  People want the most up-to-date information, and rarely does wrong information come back to seriously bite the news agency unless you can show they reported incorrect information intentionally, so the bias is towards getting information out as quickly as you can, with minimal fact checking, on breaking news stories.


THI$.

The only conspiracy in this world is money.
 
2013-02-14 03:59:01 PM  
They did not want him to talk. Why else would they open fire on innocents with nothing to go on? He was going to squeal like Ned Beatty.
 
2013-02-14 04:02:02 PM  

mongbiohazard: the money is in the banana stand: I am not defending their actions, just the challenging the blanket statement. I am curious to know how they knew there weren't any other people (or even animals) in the house before they ignited it.


They shot 6 innocent people while looking for him, several of which couldn't have been confused for him in a dark alley by a blind man wearing headphones (seriously, a blonde guy? TWO latin women - one 50 something and the other 70 something?). It's blatantly obvious they just didn't CARE if anyone else was in there.

Dorner was a villain, but the LAPD is actually the worse villain in all of this. Dorner is dead and gone. The LAPD still gets to murder and attempt to murder people with almost complete impugnity. Their actions were reckless and inexcusable and implicates the entire force as a bunch of corrupt, incompetent fools who desperately need to be held accountable.


I agree with what you are saying. Again, I am not defending the actions of the LAPD. I was challenging the blanket statement that under no circumstance should police "be judge jury and executioner" which in the context, meant using deadly force and killing perpetrators. The general consensus is that the police should apprehend suspects irregardless of the harm they pose to them, or others, and go through the court system. With regard to this case in particular, IF Dorner fired upon the cops without being first shot at, and IF the LAPD was absolutely sure that no other individuals (or pets) were inside the cabin, I don't have an issue with them smoking him out. If he walked outside guns blazing as a result, I don't care if the cops cut him down either. I don't understand how completely burning the cabin to the ground however was the best solution as whoever owned the property now has lost that and everything inside.
 
2013-02-14 04:03:27 PM  

Deep Contact: I_C_Weener: If they bulldoze the site and lose evidence all within 2 weeks like they did at Waco, then I'll start believing in conspiracy.

They'll send all the burnt timber to china.


I see what you did there.
 
2013-02-14 04:10:31 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: FOX News has the highest ratings and they are the least reputable. I don't think your theory stands up.

That doesn't refute my theory.  If anything, it confirms it.

*Processing*

Yeah, I see what you're saying here. But, you also have to mix credibility into that equation. No one is going to go to a news source that constantly gets it wrong.


They will if it consistently confirms their own pre-existing biases.
 
2013-02-14 04:11:52 PM  
Call me crazy, but isn't this exactly the reason the LAPD hasn't declared the body to be him yet?

Something about wanting to be 100% in the identification before saying they got him?
 
2013-02-14 04:20:10 PM  
Considering the track record of the press, which usually kicks out a lot of bogus information in the early stages of a high profile story, and some of the highly questionable actions that law enforcement took in this particular event, I find it disturbing that anyone who questions the validity of reports that IDs were found in multiple places (or any other discrepancies) are immediately written off as tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy nuts.

It's one thing to discard any proven factual information which later emerges and does not fit your personal interpretation of what happened, but rationally questioning apparently conflicting information is generally a sign of intelligence. It is more dangerous to accept everything one is told without questioning it, or at least testing it against basic logic.

There is certainly a middle ground between being a conspiracy nut (or truther) and a sheeple. It is possible to entertain a thought without being taken captive by it.
 
2013-02-14 04:24:30 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: fireclown: It DOES show the restraint level that the LAPD was working with, however.

It shows the actions of a couple of officers in a department of thousands.


If they don't take action regarding those officers, then it reflects on the department of thousands.

Either purge the shiatty cops, or you're all shiatty cops.
 
2013-02-14 04:45:59 PM  
That body will never be autopsied and a fatal, self inflicted gunshot wound will never be found. Bank on it.
 
2013-02-14 04:50:15 PM  

PsiChick: The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died,


Dorner did not kill a single member of LAPD.
 
2013-02-14 04:51:39 PM  
The Jazz band shooting did not happen, FYI. It was a hoax.

LAPD only innocently shot at 3 people, hitting 2, with a couple hundred rounds.

Thankfully, those people are on paid vacation now for their actions. So we're good, right?

At least there's no other incriminating eviden..."Burn that motherf***er down..." woops.
 
2013-02-14 05:01:29 PM  
I have to ask why he had his license in his wallet?  Was he planning on buying beer later or something and just flashing an ID reading "Charles Dorner".  I figured the man would at least have scored a fake off some guy who sold them to college kids.

/even if you hang onto your license, why keep it in your wallet?
//someone might get a glimpse of it as you were pulling cash out or something
 
2013-02-14 05:04:55 PM  

ha-ha-guy: I have to ask why he had his license in his wallet?  Was he planning on buying beer later or something and just flashing an ID reading "Charles Dorner".  I figured the man would at least have scored a fake off some guy who sold them to college kids.

/even if you hang onto your license, why keep it in your wallet?
//someone might get a glimpse of it as you were pulling cash out or something


I should mention, I assume Dorner did die in the cabin, but I'd still like to see LAPD get through tghe DNA test without farking that up.

/I assume they have this DNA to test against
//or at least dental records
 
2013-02-14 05:06:50 PM  

mongbiohazard: ExperianScaresCthulhu: If I was an executive branch official with a police force in my jurisdiction that behaved like that I'd be putting my foot so far up their collective asses that they'd taste my shoe polish. I'd be embarking on years of reforms and the resignations of everyone in charge.


The taste of Mongb's outrage is as sweet as the polish would be bitter. But no matter how solid your other qualifications may be, election to an executive office in a larger town or city without being endorsed by at least some of the jurisdiction's leading LEO's is difficult.  Frequently the winning candidate for mayor or top county official is an insider in part because that police/prosecutor endorsement is so important, one reason why the most successful prosecutors are often able to use that office as a step into elective office.  Defenders of this situation would say it makes sense because the executive is nominally in charge of enforcing the criminal laws.

/education by accident
 
2013-02-14 05:21:17 PM  

earthworm2.0: LanceDearnis: mizchief: vpb: It's funny how these carefully scripted conspiracies always involve really careless oversights like multiple wallets and phony shooting victim photographs.

At least we know that reporters never make lazy mistakes so obviously it's a conspiracy between Obama, the Israelis and the sekrit muslins.

Oh, and the UN too.

I think that is totally plausible and probable, but yet these questions will go unanswered. I want to know the truth as to how the happened regardless of what it might be. This is just like in Sandy Hook how conflicting reports came out about the AR-15 not being used and video showing it being pulled out of the trunk, or what happened with the guy the arrested out in the woods and have both an adult and child eyewitness on the news saying someone was handcuffed and placed in the front seat of a cop car.

It probably is just media screwing  up, but we deserve to know the truth of how this happens and the news agency held accountable for reporting false information.

They figured out that one, actually. He had a shotgun in the trunk of his car. Media taped it getting pulled out. Idiot reporter can't tell a 12-gauge from an AR-15. People don tinfoil hats. People who are familiar with the model of AR-15 in question can look at the video of the cop unloading the shotgun, and can point out the details that prove it's not an AR-15. Don't know anyone who does? Take it to a local gun store owner. Ask him to show you how you unload a Bushmaster AR-15.

Much as I hate to defend the media( hear me out before youstart throwing things) the Izhmash Saiga does look a lot like an assault rifle. really doesnt look like a shotgun. But the video they used to incite the controversy does have the reporter saying, while the cops cleared the ammunition, that they cleared a "shell"... not a "bullet"... manufactured conspiracy is manufactured.


You shouldn't defend them. If we were talking about your brother I'd say your defense is certainly valid, but news had a higher standard. They failed it.
 
2013-02-14 05:22:13 PM  
I recall reading that he had an accomplice. Who's to say it was actually him in the cabin? Multiple IDs scattered across a wide region seems to indicate misdirection. If it really wasn't him then he will either stay "dead" or use this time to plan a counter-attack. Whomever was in the cabin didn't deserve to be burned alive. Even Charles Manson got his trial. A man loses it because of police corruption, and dies in a corrupt manner makes a good story. People are also overlooking the fact that he had two previous concussions. I've mentioned this before, but severe depression is a symptom of post-concussion syndrome. It sometimes takes awhile to fully manifest. In the manifesto he said that he wanted his brain studied to show the effects of long-term depression. His depression was made worse due to the adversity he faced in a corrupt police department. For anyone one that's trying to "figure him out" then look no further than the concussions. It's also what happened to Chris Benoit years back.
 
2013-02-14 05:28:01 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: PsiChick: the money is in the banana stand: You make it sound like you think Dorner should have been given time out or given a break because he was "mentally ill." Something tells me you have never been shot or shot at before.

Don't we train the police to respond to being shot at  differently than your average person? You know, so suicide-by-cop isn't a thing and justice is?

Or are we just throwing money at training programs to train thugs?

So police should take being shot at like a man because after all, that's their job? Why the fark do you care about suicide by cop also? How is that NOT justice? Do you believe that under no circumstance cops should use deadly force even when faced with death themselves or the perpetrator injuring or killing more people?


No, I believe they should be rational enough to realize they were dealing with someone who was psychologically capable of being forced into surrender, and their job is to take any reasonable measure to get that surrender, not  throw a farking bomb in the house. And as far as suicide by cop being 'justice', dear lord, please stay the fark away from anyone who's mentally ill.

Krieghund: PsiChick: The LAPD is an American police force. It is supposed to stand for justice. The second one of their own died,

Dorner did not kill a single member of LAPD.


I thought he killed someone initially? He got the daughter of a cop and a cop?

/Then again, I also heard there were hostages in the house, but they haven't been mentioned, so for the sake of my sanity I'll assume journalists were jumping the gun a bit on reporting lives endangered\taken by Dorner...
 
2013-02-14 05:51:58 PM  

PsiChick: No, I believe they should be rational enough to realize they were dealing with someone who was psychologically capable of being forced into surrender, and their job is to take any reasonable measure to get that surrender, not  throw a farking bomb in the house. And as far as suicide by cop being 'justice', dear lord, please stay the fark away from anyone who's mentally ill.



According to a claim by CNN, a U.S. Marshall spokesman told them that Dorner did try to leave, but he was pushed back inside...

Forty minutes later that same U.S. Marshal said that authorities are "not sure" if he ever came out.

(Scroll to the 8:34 and 9:14 PM updates)
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/police-checking-reports-that-ex -l apd-officer-dorner-sighted/

They didn't want a surrender, they didn't want him to have a chance to be punished in accordance with the law, they wanted him to suffer and die at their hands.
 
2013-02-14 05:52:54 PM  
I still have my original MD Driver's License from when I was 18 in 1981. I almost didn't get it because at the end of the course when you have to parallel park I looked in the mirror instead of turning my head around after tipping the cone in front of me. My driver's test in CA in 1987 was even more momentous: I almost got T-boned because the old Dodge Dart stalled out as I was pulling into the road.

I know first-hand how easy it is for incompetents to get licenses. E.g., it's a good thing I used different feet for the gas & brake even in automatics.

I haven't driven since I wrecked my (now ex-) GF's Geo Metro ~10 years ago but I still keep getting a Driver's License just in case I ever need a U-Haul or something. But here in KY they make you turn the old one in so I can't keep dying over & over.
 
2013-02-14 05:59:06 PM  

the ha ha guy: PsiChick: No, I believe they should be rational enough to realize they were dealing with someone who was psychologically capable of being forced into surrender, and their job is to take any reasonable measure to get that surrender, not  throw a farking bomb in the house. And as far as suicide by cop being 'justice', dear lord, please stay the fark away from anyone who's mentally ill.


According to a claim by CNN, a U.S. Marshall spokesman told them that Dorner did try to leave, but he was pushed back inside...

Forty minutes later that same U.S. Marshal said that authorities are "not sure" if he ever came out.

(Scroll to the 8:34 and 9:14 PM updates)
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/police-checking-reports-that-ex -l apd-officer-dorner-sighted/

They didn't want a surrender, they didn't want him to have a chance to be punished in accordance with the law, they wanted him to suffer and die at their hands.


...f**ck the LAPD. That is like the only thing I can think right now. F**k them. The FBI needs to fire anyone involved with that department and just start from farking scratch. Holy f**k.
 
2013-02-14 06:03:00 PM  
Popcorn Johnny:

I find it amusing how people draw from the action movies they've seen to come up with what they think happened.

But I've never seen Alien Vs. Predator.
 
2013-02-14 06:17:32 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.


you obviously know more about fire than law

so stick with talking about fire
 
2013-02-14 06:23:06 PM  

cretinbob: tenpoundsofcheese: Well, that would explain why he first laid down before shooting himself (a well known suicide technique)

Yeah, I'm not going to speculate on why he would have already been on the floor when the fire started, but the several hundred rounds fired into the structure hours earlier may have had something to do with it. Probably had something to do with why he didn't answer them or come out too.
 But again I can only say for certain that you'd be surprised what survives a structure fire, especially if it's a dense material or under something that would insulate it.
The only video I saw was the middle of the fire and it didn't seem to be particularly intense, and it burned for a long time, so it's not likely there was an accelerant, at least not a lot of it, involved.
Yes, I do think it was caused by the incindiary tear gas canisters.
I'm not really going to defend the police here, because fark this asshole.


Well, there was that account that says Dorner tried to exit through the back but was pushed back in.
 
2013-02-14 06:27:00 PM  
Local blog claims wallet found, Fox News claims LA Times claimed it was found.

You'll have to pull my leg harder than that.
 
2013-02-14 06:31:28 PM  
Bontesla:
Well, there was that account that says Dorner tried to exit through the back but was pushed back in.

At this point I've seen three different stories on various media outlets:

1. He tried to run out the door and was pushed back in, no one was hurt.
2a. Same as 1, but he killed one LEO.
2b. Same as 2, but he killed one LEO and injured another one.
3.  He never tried to come out.
 
2013-02-14 06:35:33 PM  
I think that they burned him on purpose. Also that at least one of the cop fatalities will prove to be blue on blue.
 
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