UtopianDevil: Mikey1969: Also, the DMV doesn't let you keep your old license when they issue a new one.


Yes and no - they do want your old license back when you are issued a new one, but it isn't mandatory (at least in Ohio). I have never given back any of my old driver's licenses. As long as you have another valid government ID you are good to go. I always take my passport with me when I get my license renewed and they have never made an issue of it.

I have two IDs because I thought I lost one and after driving for about a month without it, I finally made it to the DMV to get another one. Best part: I get back into my car after getting the new license, look down to buckle my seatbelt, and the damn old license is sitting on the floor, in between my seats. I found the old one before I even left the DMV parking lot.

Madbassist1: acaciaavenue: You can apply for your license and claim it got lost in the mail. They will send you a duplicate. It's pretty easy.

They send you a license in the mail if you apply for one? Wow.

In NY you can renew by mail, on line, or in person. They reuse the old photo, which is nice.

Oerath: I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose. To keep it from going to trial and letting him accuse them of a bunch of stuff and drag the whole thing out.

Not to mention that there were many people on Dorner's side.  They agree with him that the LAPD is totally currupt.  If it was shown on TV, that the LAPD shot him to death it would have made him a martyr.

Now, I'm no tinfoil hat guy either.  But I thought it very strange timing that nothing was reported on the news until literally ONE SECOND before the President came on to speak.  And all they said was, "the cabin appears to be on fire.  Now, on to the President."
By the time the news got back to it, the fire was out, and there appeared to be a charred body "believed" to be Dorner.

I have my own thoery about this...  I think there was someone else in there with him.  He was killed and left to burn when the cabin went up in flames.  He likely escaped.  When you think about it that way, it's in the best interests for the cops to report to the media that he's a gonner.  If he's alive and watching, he'll think he's gotten away.

the money is in the banana stand: Oerath: I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose. To keep it from going to trial and letting him accuse them of a bunch of stuff and drag the whole thing out.

Or to kill him because they were pissed and retaliating.

I'm gonna go with...both.

Smeggy Smurf:

He shot pigs, not innocent people.

Except for a pig's daughter and her boyfriend. His goal was to hurt her father, which might well have worked, and the accounts I read suggested that they didn't "suffer!" But still it's hard for a morally consistent freedom fighter to defend "collateral damage." By accident or being in the wrong place, maybe; by deliberate targetting, no. Not that it's always wrong, just that it makes the Moral High Road harder to claim: we're supposed to be better than the pigs.

That's what keeps the Manson Family from being heroes, by the way: the first celebrity victims could be stretched into semi-legitimate targets, but the LaBiancas don't half count.

/ There's still time to name a liberation front after me. EIP to discuss licensing rights.

All cops carry a throw-down license

Oerath:

I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose. To keep it from going to trial and letting him accuse them of a bunch of stuff and drag the whole thing out.

This. Though I'm to cheap to buy foil.

dittybopper: Of course, the situation was entirely of his making, but it's still unacceptable behavior on the part of the police forces involved.  Two wrongs don't make a right.

This bears repeating. It's the best statement on the entire circus, from beginning to end. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Walletgate?

Who cares?

The guy is dead now. The fun part's over.

Dr.Zom:
Why not just plant the dead Dorner in the cabin?

With a head full of bullets?  Bad idea.

FormlessOne: SlothB77: Or there's the possibility that the wallet skeptics have found the one flaw in a carefully scripted police conspiracy, and that the police made a conscious decision to lie to everyone about finding Dorner's wallet in multiple places, in an effort to...well, it's not clear why the police would do that. General mayhem?

Cover up the fact that Dorner's body wasn't found in the cabin?

I tend to believe it was Dorner in the cabin tho, with or without the ID.  The other possibilities are that: a) it is someone else's body in the cabin, b) no body was found in the cabin.  The ID thing doesn't really exculpate the police from intentionally burning the cabin down.

But it does now allow LAPD to hunt Dorner down & kill him without press coverage or overt observation. "Yeah, that was Dorner - we found his ID. You can stop covering the story now. Go home. Move along. Move along."

That's one way of looking at it, and probably the right one.

--------------------------

fickenchucker: What a waste of conspiracy effort.  Who says a psycho didn't have multiple IDs, say a couple of credit cards left in a jacket he left behind while eluding police, a driver's license left somewhere else for the same reasons, and finally the bulk of his wallet with his old police ID passport at the final location?

And a body "burned beyond recognition" might simply be a melted head, but a portion of the body intact covering the final wallet.  It's not like the human body instantly degrades and self-immolates like a Fourth of July snake.

Somebody who takes the time to have multiple IDs isn't going to have multiple IDs of his own personal information. You get the fake shiat.  There is no reason to have multiple IDs of your own information when you're engaging in extracurricular activities.

Mikey1969: fickenchucker: What a waste of conspiracy effort.  Who says a psycho didn't have multiple IDs, say a couple of credit cards left in a jacket he left behind while eluding police, a driver's license left somewhere else for the same reasons, and finally the bulk of his wallet with his old police ID passport at the final location?

And a body "burned beyond recognition" might simply be a melted head, but a portion of the body intact covering the final wallet.  It's not like the human body instantly degrades and self-immolates like a Fourth of July snake.

If you're planning to go on the run, why would you have multiple IDs in your own name, the one you would have already burned? You make multiple IDs in different names, not the same one. Also, the DMV doesn't let you keep your old license when they issue a new one.

They do in New Mexico, but they hole punch the ID at the top.

Madbassist1: amindtat: the ha ha guy: cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.


No, it's "driver's license", not "driver license".

Apparently in CA, it IS driver license:

[icenter.ucsd.edu image 225x146]

It's "Driver License" everywhere. Somebody is stupid or trollin.


No, not "everywhere".

Wikipedia: Driver's License

MD DMV: Driver's License

PA DMV: Driver's License

GA DDS: Driver's License

These are just the states I know firsthand, I'm sure other states use the apostrophe as well.

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

How about the part where they burned down the cabin without knowing who was inside, if anyone. In other words, there could have been hostages in there but apparently the PD didn't know how many people were in there.

Completely ignoring Dorner, that's troublesome. And good luck to the PD in future negotiations when this is seen as their peaceful way out.

Oh, and the might want to stop calling tear gas "burners", just saying.

No Such Agency: Dr.Zom:
Why not just plant the dead Dorner in the cabin?

With a head full of bullets?  Bad idea.

He killed himself a lot.

If every discrepancy that ever made it into print was an indication of a conspiracy, then obviously they all are intended to cover up the fact that Dewey did in fact defeat Truman.

dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: FOX News has the highest ratings and they are the least reputable. I don't think your theory stands up.

That doesn't refute my theory.  If anything, it confirms it.

*Processing*

Yeah, I see what you're saying here. But, you also have to mix credibility into that equation. No one is going to go to a news source that constantly gets it wrong.

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Somebody who takes the time to have multiple IDs isn't going to have multiple IDs of his own personal information. You get the fake shiat.  There is no reason to have multiple IDs of your own information when you're engaging in extracurricular activities.

Unless the reason for having the multiple IDs is to leave them as sort of a calling card, of course. Anybody could scrawl "Dorner Was Here" near the scene of a crime, but leaving a valid form of ID adds a little gravity.

cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.

Actually, looking at the various DMV sites, it seems evenly mixed between 'driver license' and "driver's license". It just depends on the state, it would seem.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&ie=UTF-8# hl =en&safe=off&tbo=d&qscrl=1&sclient=psy-ab&q=driver+license+or+driver%2 7s&oq=driver+license+or+driver%27s&gs_l=hp.3..0l2.5269.9758.1.9906.26. 14.0.12.12.0.170.1779.0j14.14.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.3.psy-ab.edT14rBtZV g&pbx=1&qscrl=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42452523,d.cGE &fp=237674f07f7f139&ion=1&biw=1819&bih=959

Keeve: If every discrepancy that ever made it into print was an indication of a conspiracy, then obviously they all are intended to cover up the fact that Dewey did in fact defeat Truman.
[www.loriferber.com image 370x277]

He was elected President of Chicago.

UtopianDevil: Mikey1969: Also, the DMV doesn't let you keep your old license when they issue a new one.


Yes and no - they do want your old license back when you are issued a new one, but it isn't mandatory (at least in Ohio). I have never given back any of my old driver's licenses. As long as you have another valid government ID you are good to go. I always take my passport with me when I get my license renewed and they have never made an issue of it.

Never been able to keep an old one once they issued the new one, with the exception of the mid-90's, when I claimed I lost it. Nowadays, these people around here at least are extra-anal about these things.

durbnpoisn: Oerath: I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing nutter (I swear!), but I would totally believe that the LAPD meant to kill him and set the fire on purpose. To keep it from going to trial and letting him accuse them of a bunch of stuff and drag the whole thing out.

Not to mention that there were many people on Dorner's side.  They agree with him that the LAPD is totally currupt.  If it was shown on TV, that the LAPD shot him to death it would have made him a martyr.

Now, I'm no tinfoil hat guy either.  But I thought it very strange timing that nothing was reported on the news until literally ONE SECOND before the President came on to speak.  And all they said was, "the cabin appears to be on fire.  Now, on to the President."
By the time the news got back to it, the fire was out, and there appeared to be a charred body "believed" to be Dorner.

I have my own thoery about this...  I think there was someone else in there with him.  He was killed and left to burn when the cabin went up in flames.  He likely escaped.  When you think about it that way, it's in the best interests for the cops to report to the media that he's a gonner.  If he's alive and watching, he'll think he's gotten away.

I thought there were two women, and one of the women 'escaped' and that's how they found out?

What happened to the two women, or was that a fake story, too?

New Jersey: Auto Driver License

Mitch Taylor's Bro:
Come on, man, you're better at logic than that. Dorner had a serious axe to grind against the LAPD. If they faked his death, one lucky TV news reader would be getting a phone call from Dorner as soon as the coroner "confirmed" that it was Dorner's body. "Um, yeah, about that guy the LAPD and LA coroner say is me? Yeah, not so much. Here's my 20-minute rant that I want you to break into 'Judge Judy' to air. Ready?"

Please... the Reverse Vampires own the TV stations.

Captain Darling: From the comments

"I try not to be too tinfoil, but burning is really convenient since nobody can eyeball and identify the body that way. It's more important for the LAPD to publicly be seen to kill Dorner than for them to ACTUALLY kill Dorner. Think about it."


WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again. How the hell would it profit the LAPD to fake his death?


Faking/lying about the ID doesn't actually mean they're lying about his corpse.

I actually have a pretty plausible explanation as to why they might lie about the ID. Sloppiness and an utter uninterest for proper procedure and use of force. Those are attributes which the LAPD demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt when they shot 6 innocent people (including latin grandmas delivering newspapers) and rammed a pickup truck while searching for him.

They could be well aware that it was his corpse that they recovered, but they want everyone to STFU about it. So they lie about finding his ID... If they are certain they actually got him this time then it's not like he'll show up somewhere else and prove that they were lying.

But it's kind of moot... the LAPD's execution throughout this whole episode has shown that there were TWO villains in this story, not one. Dorner was the first and the LAPD the second. Dorner was eliminated as a threat, the LAPD is going on as strong as ever. But we can be sure that the LAPD is not to be trusted now. Some of the strong criticisms of them have clearly been validated. They are totally out of control, and apparently effectively without oversight.

If I lived there I'd be a hell of a lot more frightened by the police than the criminals. The criminals I can fight back against and possibly win. The police can murder you and simply get away with it scott free.

cfroelic: It's driver license, not drivers license.

Licenses in this case.

Madbassist1: Also, how in the fark would you know that little piece of trivia (and I DO mean trivia). Do you have lots of mundane facts like that in your noggin?


You said that it was Driver License "everywhere". My current license (and licenses from previous states) all have the apostrophe, thus disproving your incorrect correction and accusation of trolling.

1. Military ID
2. Police ID
3. Driver's License
4. Passport
5. Diner's Club Card

Yeah, the multiple ID thing sounds more like catching the LAPD in garden variety "lying to the press" shenanigans, from back when they had no farking clue where he was but didn't want to sound totally incompetent.

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

It's called innocent until proven guilty.  He's automatically guilty because the police say he's guilty?  Why would they do that?  Oh that's right, he accused them of breaking the law, so OF COURSE they shoot first and ask questions later.  They were trying to kill him, why else would they shoot up that truck before they even knew if he was the one in it?

BolloxReader: I will say that I have several copies of my CDL. Only one is current but when I added endorsements they let me keep my original and gave me a paper temp slip for the endorsements and sent a new permanent one in the mail. If I happen to leave my CDL in an office somewhere I use an older one for ID until the one I left catches up in the mail. As long as I don't need an endorsement for a particular load, nobody knows any different. They all expire at the same time and have the same license number that my original drivers license had.

So yeah I could do what he did, right now.

You don't get two copies of your badge, though. That point has consistently bothered me since a man on one of the national news sites comment sections asked about it.  There is no way that Dorner's badge should have been found in a field (or on the street, or anywhere) with his identification, if he was an *ex*-cop.  When you leave your job, or are forced out, you are required to also give up your IDs.  No way is an *ex*-cop going to be allowed to keep a badge... especially if the job was lost several years ago.

I had only seen one news article which referenced the badge as something like waiting to be authenticated... and that was days after this first hit the press.

Was he employed elsewhere, though, that required a badge?

mongbiohazard: Captain Darling: From the comments

"I try not to be too tinfoil, but burning is really convenient since nobody can eyeball and identify the body that way. It's more important for the LAPD to publicly be seen to kill Dorner than for them to ACTUALLY kill Dorner. Think about it."


WTF? If Dorner wasn't really the guy in the cabin, he will surely attempt to kill again. How the hell would it profit the LAPD to fake his death?


Faking/lying about the ID doesn't actually mean they're lying about his corpse.

I actually have a pretty plausible explanation as to why they might lie about the ID. Sloppiness and an utter uninterest for proper procedure and use of force. Those are attributes which the LAPD demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt when they shot 6 innocent people (including latin grandmas delivering newspapers) and rammed a pickup truck while searching for himduring the OJ trial.

I'm sure folks with memories older than 20 years ago can go back even further.

Bit'O'Gristle: Easy, if you die on your back, and the fire gets you, your leather wallet will probably survive the fire. I've seen it first hand. 90 percent of the heat in a fire is on the ceiling, and as your wallet wouldn't be up there unless you farking glued it there, it's probably going to survive. farking conspiracy morans. And it bother's me not at all that they set it on fire. That's deadly force, there is no difference between that and shooting the asshole in the head. Both are deadly force, both were justified. At least he had a CHANCE with the fire, he could have come out. But he chose not to. So fark him. And fark all you jackasses who took this murdering asshole's side. Whatever valid point he had died when he started killing innocent people.

Plus, that is a million dollar match they used, as it keeps him from being convicted, and thus, no bounty is paid.

No Such Agency: Dr.Zom:
Why not just plant the dead Dorner in the cabin?

With a head full of bullets?  Bad idea.

If they had him already all they had to do was execute him in a way that was consistent with suicide. Plant body, light up cabin, wipe hands on cop pants.

ringersol: Yeah, the multiple ID thing sounds more like catching the LAPD in garden variety "lying to the press" shenanigans, from back when they had no farking clue where he was but didn't want to sound totally incompetent.


Exactly. They don't have to be lying about having killed him to have lied about the details. And with the bang up job they were doing on his trail some white lies (racist pun unintended) here and there seem utterly plausible.

This is a police force who will attempt to murder random people - on multiple occasions - because they are reckless and effectively unaccountable. Lying about finding his ID to make themselves look more competent is totally believable.

Late to this party (and apologies if this has been posted), but I just want to point out that the wallet found near the border wasn't a case of sloppy reporting - it's listed as evidence in one of the sworn criminal complaints against Dorner.

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