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(Slate)   1: Invent a "social disorder" so that losers who can't talk to women don't feel like it's their fault. 2: Design counseling program designed to help the afflicted. 3: Profit   (slate.com) divider line 237
    More: Stupid, Social Disorder, program designer, Rebecca, DSM, Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, dance studio, social anxiety disorder, National Institute of Mental Health  
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9671 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2013 at 1:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-14 04:53:30 PM  

my herniated disc: ACunningPlan: mutterfark: There is a rather large difference between the kind of shyness you can fix with a little alcohol and a disabling terror of personal interaction.
One of the reasons I started Farking was a hope that anonymous interaction would lead to easier "real" interaction. It didn't work. I seem normal when I interact with people, but that's only due to years of practicing coping strategies. I tried the 'have a few drinks' method for years but found I still couldn't speak to women unless I was so drunk I was incoherent. The only way I can talk to women in public is convine myself of their unavailability. In fact, it's bad enough that I rarely post anything but lame attempts at humor even with the anonymity of Fark. Just typing this personal of a response is causing an anxiety reaction.
To sum up, in spite of being incomprehensible to most, shyness can be debilitating.

Only if you choose to let it be debilitating.  Due to a set of shiatty and ridiculously complicated circumstances, any type of "real" socializing is a complete nightmare for me.  I can do it extremely well, but I would rather eat ground glass, avoid it as much as possible and think "thank christ that's over" when it's finished.  I started Farking for the same reasons; although I'd lurked for years and in a truly perverse way, Fark restored my faith in humanity a bit....make of that what you will.  And when there is a Fark party in my area, I may well attend - out of curiosity:)

The point is I could classify myself as shy or having a social anxiety disorder and blame those traits for the difficulty.  In reality, it's a choice.  Is it a good one? Maybe not, but handing over money &/or taking pills to "fix" me, likewise seems a bit daft.  Not saying all mental illnesses &/or disorders aren't real, or treatable with appropriate therapies.  Just that some of what's peddled as needing help or medication is exaggerated.

except social anxiety is more than just shyness, it can be accompanied by

debilitating physical reactions.. (like full on panic attacks) So yeah, maybe you could classify yourself as shy, but a full blown anxiety disorder? not so much.  I believe that actual disorder is more akin to pstd.. I don't think folks can just "will" themselves out of pstd symptoms.
There may be plenty of people who don't actually have an anxiety disorder  but still self-diagnose and self-medicate needlessly. That does not mean the actual disorder doesn't really exist.

I think its completely bizarre how drug companies can just advertise on tv, pretty much making up any random crap and offering pills for it. It de-legitimizes people who have genuine afflictions and need help.

 ...
To be fair, I didn't say the disorder didn't exist and there are a lot of factors involved as to how it manifests and can affect someone; age, cause etc., etc.  Someone who has truly debilitating difficulties is unlikely to be able to attend group therapy sessions in the first place, so I think the setup in TFA isn't referring to those types of people.  But actually yes you can "will" yourself out of ptsd symptoms - depending on the severity of course - because life goes on and survival is a very powerful instinct.  All one has to do is establish what the cost might be & the pay-off - ensuring that the latter is worth the former and then you're good to go and one endures the downside for however long is necessary.

Agree with you on the drug companies & t.v. stuff.
 
2013-02-14 05:02:28 PM  

super_grass: Totally agree with the headline.

Pretty much all psychological "disorders" are bullshiat.  ADHD?  Bring back corporal punishment and keep the brats in check.  Social anxiety/autism?  Make them get out of the basement once in a while.  Depression?  Stop being sad and smile once in a goddamn while.

Seriously, we're turning into a bunch of pussies.  None of this existed fifteen years ago, it's just a bunch of trendy crap like gluten "allergies".


Nobody ever got depressed or had symptoms that could be considered autustic before fifteen years ago? LOL! Sylvia Plath, Ernest Hemingway, Winston Churchill and Isaac Newton think you're a douchepocket.
 
2013-02-14 05:05:56 PM  

Mentat: Do you also think that chronically depressed people just need to suck it up and smile more?


I know you weren't being serious here, but....it worked for me. It's worth a shot.
 
2013-02-14 05:13:04 PM  
Love the trolly headline.  Got the job done well, Subby!

Can't see a workshop helping me though.  Just looking another person in the eyes causes physical pain (have to force myself to stay locked-on, then force myself some more to not stare like a creep due to forcing myself to lock onto their eyes in the first place).  Actually going up to a stranger (especially someone I find attractive) trip my fight-or-flight response, resulting in having to force myself to even say a single word while somehow stopping my legs from bolting in the opposite direction.

Then there's the issue where I am incapable of blind empathy.  I can't "put myself in their shoes" in order to find something to talk about, because until I've already gotten to know them, they are completely empty of any interests at all.  On top of *that* is the problem where I am a tremendous geek.  When somebody states an interest in a particular subject, I can't help but begin conversing about the most esoteric details of the topic.

Oh, and let's not forget how "confidence" is an alien concept.  I mean that literally.  I don't know what it is or how it feels.  I whip myself around a race track on a motorcycle in excess of 160mph, but I can't claim any feeling I might describe as "confidence."  I just do it, while focusing on the minute, exceedingly important details one must manage in order to avoid eating a cement barrier.  When I think about it, I feel quite worried that I'm going to screw up and get mangled.  I love pushing my own limits on/in machines though, so I keep going back to track days on my bike, in my car, or at the kart track.

Nobody's been able to tell me what's wrong with me, but then again I grew up in the 80's before anybody gave a damn.  All I was ever told was "NUT UP!"

tl;dr - socializing with strangers causes physical and psychological trauma, as does expressing feelings of attraction, and there's no way to get around those pains.  Not even booze helps in the slightest.
 
2013-02-14 05:14:48 PM  

CutBoard: mutterfark: There is a rather large difference between the kind of shyness you can fix with a little alcohol and a disabling terror of personal interaction.
One of the reasons I started Farking was a hope that anonymous interaction would lead to easier "real" interaction. It didn't work. I seem normal when I interact with people, but that's only due to years of practicing coping strategies. I tried the 'have a few drinks' method for years but found I still couldn't speak to women unless I was so drunk I was incoherent. The only way I can talk to women in public is convine myself of their unavailability. In fact, it's bad enough that I rarely post anything but lame attempts at humor even with the anonymity of Fark. Just typing this personal of a response is causing an anxiety reaction.
To sum up, in spite of being incomprehensible to most, shyness can be debilitating.


Wrong answer, if your able to type out your thoughts then your able to speak them. You did a real nice try at attempting to be "shy", but, your trying to convince the wrong people. The only one you need to deal with is yourself.


Wrong answer? Attempting to be shy? I have worked very hard to be where I am today and will continue to work at improvement until I die. As for being able to post here? Are you telling me you can't see a world of difference between an ordinary face to face interaction and anonymous chatting on Fark?
 
2013-02-14 05:19:52 PM  
Hey look! It's a thread full of sociopathic assholes who've never had a panic attack and have no empathy for those who have!

/welcome_to_fark.jpg
 
2013-02-14 05:23:12 PM  

Kuroshin: tl;dr - socializing with strangers causes physical and psychological trauma, as does expressing feelings of attraction, and there's no way to get around those pains.  Not even booze helps in the slightest.


The only way to get over the fear of rejection is constant rejection. It really sucks. Some people are born salesmen - they have the ability to shrug off embarrassment or rejection with ease. Some people can learn to do this after a lot of hard and painful experience with it. Some people can't ever force themselves through the process. I see it in similar terms to track - some people are born to run, some people can learn to run, and some people can't ever get comfortable with running. Unfortunately, skills and abilities are not evenly distributed through the population. I would be willing to bet that you *could*, after taking an enormous amount of psychological trauma, lose at least some of your shyness. The question is, would the result be worth what you have to go through to get there?
 
2013-02-14 05:25:56 PM  

super_grass: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x500]

/All anyone needs to know about shyness and depression.
//Suck it up, nancy boys.
///Slashies are AWESOME.


Yeah, that's all they need to know. Life isn't puppy dogs and ice cream all the time, dolt.

For the rest of you that talk about us with severe anxiety, saying we're pussies, from the anonymity of internet: Fine. I can assure you, however, that I wouldn't hesitate to give you a knuckle sandwich if you had the balls to say it to my face. I wouldn't be shy about that. I'd be extremely confident about stomping you into the pavement.

Social anxiety does exist.
 
2013-02-14 05:27:09 PM  
www.perlstorm.net

/Q&D
 
2013-02-14 05:30:12 PM  

super_grass: Totally agree with the headline.

Pretty much all psychological "disorders" are bullshiat. ADHD? Bring back corporal punishment and keep the brats in check. Social anxiety/autism? Make them get out of the basement once in a while. Depression? Stop being sad and smile once in a goddamn while.

Seriously, we're turning into a bunch of pussies. None of this existed fifteen years ago, it's just a bunch of trendy crap like gluten "allergies".


Wow. That's pretty uninformed even by fark trolling standards. So here's the deal- since you clearly don't think it will be a problem, why don't we lock you in a room with several paranoid schizophrenics. After all, their hallucinations and delusions are clearly just them being pussies - so they couldn't possibly do anything dangerous right? And if you're right, you'll cure the incurable with the healing powers of your baseless mental health criticism. That'll show em'.
 
2013-02-14 05:30:33 PM  

untaken_name: Mentat: Do you also think that chronically depressed people just need to suck it up and smile more?

I know you weren't being serious here, but....it worked for me. It's worth a shot.


Tried it for 10 years. Didn't work. Now what?
 
2013-02-14 05:33:16 PM  

untaken_name: Kuroshin: tl;dr - socializing with strangers causes physical and psychological trauma, as does expressing feelings of attraction, and there's no way to get around those pains.  Not even booze helps in the slightest.

The only way to get over the fear of rejection is constant rejection. It really sucks. Some people are born salesmen - they have the ability to shrug off embarrassment or rejection with ease. Some people can learn to do this after a lot of hard and painful experience with it. Some people can't ever force themselves through the process. I see it in similar terms to track - some people are born to run, some people can learn to run, and some people can't ever get comfortable with running. Unfortunately, skills and abilities are not evenly distributed through the population. I would be willing to bet that you *could*, after taking an enormous amount of psychological trauma, lose at least some of your shyness. The question is, would the result be worth what you have to go through to get there?


It's not fear.  I never characterized it as such.  I know fear, and I can deal with fear.  Like I said, I send myself whizzing around a race track with nothing between myself and a belt sander but 2mm of leather.  Fear is psychological.  This is neurological.  I can't even look my own wife directly in the eye without massive effort and discomfort.

Also note that I do put in the effort, but it never gets any easier.
 
2013-02-14 05:35:59 PM  

GoSurfing: super_grass: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x500]

/All anyone needs to know about shyness and depression.
//Suck it up, nancy boys.
///Slashies are AWESOME.

Yeah, that's all they need to know. Life isn't puppy dogs and ice cream all the time, dolt.

For the rest of you that talk about us with severe anxiety, saying we're pussies, from the anonymity of internet: Fine. I can assure you, however, that I wouldn't hesitate to give you a knuckle sandwich if you had the balls to say it to my face. I wouldn't be shy about that. I'd be extremely confident about stomping you into the pavement.

Social anxiety does exist.


People and animals who have not been socialized properly are dangerous and unpredictable in a social environment.  Short of culling these sick animals, I try to avoid them in general before they shoot up a school or lock themselves in a cabin and lighting it on fire.

Looking at you spaz out in a fit of tardrage only reinforces my point.
 
2013-02-14 05:36:31 PM  

Bartleby the Scrivener: I drunk what: is there a pill to cure farkers?

[img.fark.net image 197x70]


i said cure not cause it
 
2013-02-14 05:39:20 PM  

super_grass: GoSurfing: super_grass: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x500]

/All anyone needs to know about shyness and depression.
//Suck it up, nancy boys.
///Slashies are AWESOME.

Yeah, that's all they need to know. Life isn't puppy dogs and ice cream all the time, dolt.

For the rest of you that talk about us with severe anxiety, saying we're pussies, from the anonymity of internet: Fine. I can assure you, however, that I wouldn't hesitate to give you a knuckle sandwich if you had the balls to say it to my face. I wouldn't be shy about that. I'd be extremely confident about stomping you into the pavement.

Social anxiety does exist.

People and animals who have not been socialized properly are dangerous and unpredictable in a social environment.  Short of culling these sick animals, I try to avoid them in general before they shoot up a school or lock themselves in a cabin and lighting it on fire.

Looking at you spaz out in a fit of tardrage only reinforces my point.


Your disillusionment with reality only reinforces my point.
 
2013-02-14 05:40:13 PM  

super_grass: GoSurfing: super_grass: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x500]

/All anyone needs to know about shyness and depression.
//Suck it up, nancy boys.
///Slashies are AWESOME.

Yeah, that's all they need to know. Life isn't puppy dogs and ice cream all the time, dolt.

For the rest of you that talk about us with severe anxiety, saying we're pussies, from the anonymity of internet: Fine. I can assure you, however, that I wouldn't hesitate to give you a knuckle sandwich if you had the balls to say it to my face. I wouldn't be shy about that. I'd be extremely confident about stomping you into the pavement.

Social anxiety does exist.

People and animals who have not been socialized properly are dangerous and unpredictable in a social environment.  Short of culling these sick animals, I try to avoid them in general before they shoot up a school or lock themselves in a cabin and lighting it on fire.

Looking at you spaz out in a fit of tardrage only reinforces my point.


Now that's some fine trolling.
 
2013-02-14 05:42:54 PM  

CutBoard: mutterfark: There is a rather large difference between the kind of shyness you can fix with a little alcohol and a disabling terror of personal interaction.
One of the reasons I started Farking was a hope that anonymous interaction would lead to easier "real" interaction. It didn't work. I seem normal when I interact with people, but that's only due to years of practicing coping strategies. I tried the 'have a few drinks' method for years but found I still couldn't speak to women unless I was so drunk I was incoherent. The only way I can talk to women in public is convine myself of their unavailability. In fact, it's bad enough that I rarely post anything but lame attempts at humor even with the anonymity of Fark. Just typing this personal of a response is causing an anxiety reaction.
To sum up, in spite of being incomprehensible to most, shyness can be debilitating.


Wrong answer, if your able to type out your thoughts then your able to speak them. You did a real nice try at attempting to be "shy", but, your trying to convince the wrong people. The only one you need to deal with is yourself.


The internet is fairly anonymous in most places and thus is easier for someone to put forward a little bit of themselves they wouldn't do it in person.

Go back to your cave, troll.
 
2013-02-14 05:42:58 PM  

GoSurfing: super_grass: GoSurfing: super_grass: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x500]

/All anyone needs to know about shyness and depression.
//Suck it up, nancy boys.
///Slashies are AWESOME.

Yeah, that's all they need to know. Life isn't puppy dogs and ice cream all the time, dolt.

For the rest of you that talk about us with severe anxiety, saying we're pussies, from the anonymity of internet: Fine. I can assure you, however, that I wouldn't hesitate to give you a knuckle sandwich if you had the balls to say it to my face. I wouldn't be shy about that. I'd be extremely confident about stomping you into the pavement.

Social anxiety does exist.

People and animals who have not been socialized properly are dangerous and unpredictable in a social environment.  Short of culling these sick animals, I try to avoid them in general before they shoot up a school or lock themselves in a cabin and lighting it on fire.

Looking at you spaz out in a fit of tardrage only reinforces my point.

Your disillusionment with reality only reinforces my point.


Wrong word, that's funny right there.
 
2013-02-14 05:43:16 PM  

GoSurfing: super_grass: GoSurfing: super_grass: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x500]

/All anyone needs to know about shyness and depression.
//Suck it up, nancy boys.
///Slashies are AWESOME.

Yeah, that's all they need to know. Life isn't puppy dogs and ice cream all the time, dolt.

For the rest of you that talk about us with severe anxiety, saying we're pussies, from the anonymity of internet: Fine. I can assure you, however, that I wouldn't hesitate to give you a knuckle sandwich if you had the balls to say it to my face. I wouldn't be shy about that. I'd be extremely confident about stomping you into the pavement.

Social anxiety does exist.

People and animals who have not been socialized properly are dangerous and unpredictable in a social environment.  Short of culling these sick animals, I try to avoid them in general before they shoot up a school or lock themselves in a cabin and lighting it on fire.

Looking at you spaz out in a fit of tardrage only reinforces my point.

Your disillusionment with reality only reinforces my point.


encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

GO - GOSURFING

GOSURFING GOSURFING GOSURFING

go-go-gosurfing
 
2013-02-14 05:45:16 PM  

Kuroshin: untaken_name: Kuroshin: tl;dr - socializing with strangers causes physical and psychological trauma, as does expressing feelings of attraction, and there's no way to get around those pains.  Not even booze helps in the slightest.

The only way to get over the fear of rejection is constant rejection. It really sucks. Some people are born salesmen - they have the ability to shrug off embarrassment or rejection with ease. Some people can learn to do this after a lot of hard and painful experience with it. Some people can't ever force themselves through the process. I see it in similar terms to track - some people are born to run, some people can learn to run, and some people can't ever get comfortable with running. Unfortunately, skills and abilities are not evenly distributed through the population. I would be willing to bet that you *could*, after taking an enormous amount of psychological trauma, lose at least some of your shyness. The question is, would the result be worth what you have to go through to get there?

It's not fear.  I never characterized it as such.  I know fear, and I can deal with fear.  Like I said, I send myself whizzing around a race track with nothing between myself and a belt sander but 2mm of leather.  Fear is psychological.  This is neurological.  I can't even look my own wife directly in the eye without massive effort and discomfort.

Also note that I do put in the effort, but it never gets any easier.


Weird. I didn't notice anything like that about you at the PDX Fark party. You hide it REALLY well.
 
2013-02-14 05:46:19 PM  

ialdabaoth: Tried it for 10 years. Didn't work. Now what?


Well don't give up now!

quitter
 
2013-02-14 05:48:04 PM  

12monkeys: Hey look! It's a thread full of sociopathic assholes who've never had a panic attack and have no empathy for those who have!

/welcome_to_fark.jpg


What's the value of empathy, again?
 
2013-02-14 05:48:55 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: it's not that shyness is new. But now it's a "social disorder" that requires pills. I guess hitting the bar with your friends is to hard.


I know, the cool kids don't RTFA, but its point was that the workshop is designed to teach participants skills and let them practice them to reduce anxiety.  The not-pill nature was mentioned explicitly.
 
2013-02-14 05:50:25 PM  

Kuroshin: Fear is psychological. This is neurological. I can't even look my own wife directly in the eye without massive effort and discomfort.

Also note that I do put in the effort, but it never gets any easier.


Can you identify what exactly about eye contact makes you uncomfortable?
 
2013-02-14 05:50:45 PM  

chrylis: The Stealth Hippopotamus: it's not that shyness is new. But now it's a "social disorder" that requires pills. I guess hitting the bar with your friends is to hard.

I know, the cool kids don't RTFA, but its point was that the workshop is designed to teach participants skills and let them practice them to reduce anxiety.  The not-pill nature was mentioned explicitly.


Pills, not-pills, it's all the same thing: giving weaklings an opportunity to survive in the real world.

Why do we want that, again?
 
2013-02-14 05:51:24 PM  

fusillade762: Kuroshin: untaken_name: Kuroshin: tl;dr - socializing with strangers causes physical and psychological trauma, as does expressing feelings of attraction, and there's no way to get around those pains.  Not even booze helps in the slightest.

The only way to get over the fear of rejection is constant rejection. It really sucks. Some people are born salesmen - they have the ability to shrug off embarrassment or rejection with ease. Some people can learn to do this after a lot of hard and painful experience with it. Some people can't ever force themselves through the process. I see it in similar terms to track - some people are born to run, some people can learn to run, and some people can't ever get comfortable with running. Unfortunately, skills and abilities are not evenly distributed through the population. I would be willing to bet that you *could*, after taking an enormous amount of psychological trauma, lose at least some of your shyness. The question is, would the result be worth what you have to go through to get there?

It's not fear.  I never characterized it as such.  I know fear, and I can deal with fear.  Like I said, I send myself whizzing around a race track with nothing between myself and a belt sander but 2mm of leather.  Fear is psychological.  This is neurological.  I can't even look my own wife directly in the eye without massive effort and discomfort.

Also note that I do put in the effort, but it never gets any easier.

Weird. I didn't notice anything like that about you at the PDX Fark party. You hide it REALLY well.


Or it just blends into the background of nerdiness. ;)

But yeah, I had to really fight.  You probably didn't notice, but I didn't look anybody directly in the eye, and I had been at the bar for at least thirty minutes before wandering over.  But hey, we've also got one thing automatically in common, right?
 
2013-02-14 05:53:36 PM  

chrylis: Kuroshin: Fear is psychological. This is neurological. I can't even look my own wife directly in the eye without massive effort and discomfort.

Also note that I do put in the effort, but it never gets any easier.

Can you identify what exactly about eye contact makes you uncomfortable?


The eye contact.

It's akin to attempting to push like-poled magnets together.  Resistance becomes greater the closer they get, and they want nothing more than to slide away.  It takes greater and greater effort, and there's a physical feeling of pressure just as with magnets.  Then the creeping feeling of panic sets in...
 
2013-02-14 05:55:21 PM  
I'll ask again: if you're successful, and protected against retribution, why is compassion or empathy towards those who are not valuable?
 
2013-02-14 05:55:22 PM  

Kuroshin: super_grass: GoSurfing: super_grass: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x500]

/All anyone needs to know about shyness and depression.
//Suck it up, nancy boys.
///Slashies are AWESOME.

Yeah, that's all they need to know. Life isn't puppy dogs and ice cream all the time, dolt.

For the rest of you that talk about us with severe anxiety, saying we're pussies, from the anonymity of internet: Fine. I can assure you, however, that I wouldn't hesitate to give you a knuckle sandwich if you had the balls to say it to my face. I wouldn't be shy about that. I'd be extremely confident about stomping you into the pavement.

Social anxiety does exist.

People and animals who have not been socialized properly are dangerous and unpredictable in a social environment.  Short of culling these sick animals, I try to avoid them in general before they shoot up a school or lock themselves in a cabin and lighting it on fire.

Looking at you spaz out in a fit of tardrage only reinforces my point.

Now that's some fine trolling.


Me, or him? I don't think he's trolling, and I hope I'm not coming across as such. He has a valid point- some people are unpredictable. I know I surely am, just not in a violent sense. I know it may seem like the contrary, but really, call any man in a public place a pussy and guess the outcome. This is the internet, and all of us saying these things from anonymity on fark that we'd never really say to anyone in public...we'll I guess that makes us all pussies.

/The most succinct way of defining social anxiety is being trapped in a negative feedback loop, as others here have touched on.
//Two types of depressed people: those that take it out on others, those that take it out on themselves. I'm the latter.
///I don't medicate. Life is a garden, dig it. I try to overcome anxiety by facing it head-on, every day, as I've done for years now. It's just that nothing "clicks", and I never make any progress.
 
2013-02-14 05:56:25 PM  
I've found that if you buy a few dances the girls will sit and talk to you.

They you can find out if they like your chloroform rag collection.
 
2013-02-14 05:58:40 PM  

Kuroshin: Can you identify what exactly about eye contact makes you uncomfortable?

The eye contact.


Yes, but I was asking whether you noted anything specific about the path.  Have you compared yourself to the list of autistic symptoms, particularly unusual sensitivity to bright lights or loud sounds?
 
2013-02-14 06:05:36 PM  

ialdabaoth: untaken_name: Mentat: Do you also think that chronically depressed people just need to suck it up and smile more?

I know you weren't being serious here, but....it worked for me. It's worth a shot.

Tried it for 10 years. Didn't work. Now what?


I have no idea, I'm sorry. Like I said, it worked for me. Once it worked, I stopped looking for solutions.
 
2013-02-14 06:10:04 PM  

ialdabaoth: I'll ask again: if you're successful, and protected against retribution, why is compassion or empathy towards those who are not valuable?


1) You are never as protected as you think.  You may be successful and safe today, but tomorrow anything may happen.

2) I cannot imagine that I would have any joy or quality of life with compassion and empathy for people around me.  I have no data to back that up, but it seems like it would be the difference between 3D and 2D.
 
2013-02-14 06:11:00 PM  

Kuroshin: Fear is psychological.  This is neurological.


Okay, well, let's get hung up on semantics, then. :) I'm sure that will help! ;) Like I said, skills and abilities aren't evenly distributed. I'll never be a track star, but I can hobble along. Some people can't even do that. Some people could but don't, some people can't. It sounds like you're on the can't side of that. If nothing's working and it is painful to you to try, my advice is to stop trying. You won't be any less shy, but you'll be in less pain.
 
2013-02-14 06:11:59 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: effing makes me sick. You're not like everyone else?! HERE! take a pill.


No one is forcing these people into treatment. These people self-identified a skill they would like to improve and are educating themselves to become more proficient. How can you be upset with that?

As for the pills: you need to refine your point because what you complain about here is exactly what physicians do when treating bodily illness. Have a pulmonary infection -- take a pill. Don't want polio -- take a pill. I assume you don't object to that sort of chemical treatment; if that's the case you need to make a distinction between that sort of pill use and the type of use you don't like.
 
2013-02-14 06:13:01 PM  

Graffito: ialdabaoth: I'll ask again: if you're successful, and protected against retribution, why is compassion or empathy towards those who are not valuable?

1) You are never as protected as you think.  You may be successful and safe today, but tomorrow anything may happen.


Which is why you never pass up an opportunity to crush the downtrodden. The wider the gap, the less likely anyone is to jump it.

2) I cannot imagine that I would have any joy or quality of life with compassion and empathy for people around me.  I have no data to back that up, but it seems like it would be the difference between 3D and 2D.

True, but what if people like it better that way? I mean, judging by human behavior, having contempt for others who are too weak to do anything about it feels GREAT.
 
2013-02-14 06:14:14 PM  

untaken_name: Kuroshin: Fear is psychological.  This is neurological.

Okay, well, let's get hung up on semantics, then. :) I'm sure that will help! ;) Like I said, skills and abilities aren't evenly distributed. I'll never be a track star, but I can hobble along. Some people can't even do that. Some people could but don't, some people can't. It sounds like you're on the can't side of that. If nothing's working and it is painful to you to try, my advice is to stop trying. You won't be any less shy, but you'll be in less pain.


I thought only pussies gave up when it got too hard, and only idiots kept going. (For winners, it just never gets too hard in the first place.)
 
2013-02-14 06:16:40 PM  

ialdabaoth: untaken_name: Kuroshin: Fear is psychological.  This is neurological.

Okay, well, let's get hung up on semantics, then. :) I'm sure that will help! ;) Like I said, skills and abilities aren't evenly distributed. I'll never be a track star, but I can hobble along. Some people can't even do that. Some people could but don't, some people can't. It sounds like you're on the can't side of that. If nothing's working and it is painful to you to try, my advice is to stop trying. You won't be any less shy, but you'll be in less pain.

I thought only pussies gave up when it got too hard, and only idiots kept going. (For winners, it just never gets too hard in the first place.)


It's an equation you're going to have to work out for yourself. It's not that things are easy for winners. It's that people for whom things are easy naturally win. It's a subtle distinction, but important.
 
2013-02-14 06:18:39 PM  
Some fat people have glandular issues, most don't.
 
2013-02-14 06:18:43 PM  

untaken_name: ialdabaoth: untaken_name: Kuroshin: Fear is psychological.  This is neurological.

Okay, well, let's get hung up on semantics, then. :) I'm sure that will help! ;) Like I said, skills and abilities aren't evenly distributed. I'll never be a track star, but I can hobble along. Some people can't even do that. Some people could but don't, some people can't. It sounds like you're on the can't side of that. If nothing's working and it is painful to you to try, my advice is to stop trying. You won't be any less shy, but you'll be in less pain.

I thought only pussies gave up when it got too hard, and only idiots kept going. (For winners, it just never gets too hard in the first place.)

It's an equation you're going to have to work out for yourself. It's not that things are easy for winners. It's that people for whom things are easy naturally win. It's a subtle distinction, but important.


It's a distinction that winners and society don't bother making, so what's the point of making it?
 
2013-02-14 06:19:19 PM  

Champion of the Sun: Some fat people have glandular issues, most don't.


And even the ones that do are better off treated as if they don't, because fark them.
 
2013-02-14 06:22:45 PM  

ialdabaoth: It's a distinction that winners and society don't bother making, so what's the point of making it?


Because "technically" is the best kind of correct? I don't know. I'm not on a forum for winners and society, I'm on Fark.
 
2013-02-14 06:23:20 PM  
As a former shy-guy .....

1) If your mind ever goes blank, ask a question about her/him or comment on something in your proximity.

2) Smile when you're talking. People like to feel that the other person enjoys their company.

3) Make eye-contact when you are speaking with them and hold the eye contact. As a shy person it took me forever to force myself to not look away.

4) Watch your ticks. For me it's leg shaking. If I'm bored or nervous I shake my leg like crazy. People like other people who exude an air of tranquility. (I'm still working on this one)

5) Not everyone is attracted to everyone else. Just because you get rejected doesn't mean you're any less of a person, it just means that particular person didn't feel you were compatible as a lover.

6) Last but not least, watch your mood. Humans are amazing at reading even the smallest body language and can pickup negative signs. So if you're ever feeling down, you need to mentally rally yourself! Tell yourself that you are an amazing person, tell yourself you look fine, and remember that everyone from the President of the United States to Kate Upton to the coworker sitting beside you ... from time to time ... has horrible broken-glass-shiats. The kind where you almost want to cry it's so painful. It'll help you mentally bring everyone to the same level.

Have a fun life!
 
2013-02-14 06:27:54 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Here's a little test: If you're at the bar with friends and you don't talk to the pretty girl because you're scared of rejection you dont need a pill. You're huddled in a corner and you've been crying for the last hour because you have to go to the store to buy food, you need a pill.


I want beer. I really want beer. I don't have much to do tonight and I enjoy the taste (as well as the general numbness to emotions that comes with the first half of being drunk). Problem is: I don't have any beer. I've been fighting with myself the past few hours just to convince myself to go out because of my social anxiety. Objectively, I know the reward (yummy tasty beer) is far greater than the risk (a few fleeting seconds of social interaction), but in my mind that risk seems insurmountably daunting.
 
2013-02-14 06:46:01 PM  

GoSurfing: Me, or him? I don't think he's trolling, and I hope I'm not coming across as such. He has a valid point- some people are unpredictable. I know I surely am, just not in a violent sense. I know it may seem like the contrary, but really, call any man in a public place a pussy and guess the outcome. This is the internet, and all of us saying these things from anonymity on fark that we'd never really say to anyone in public...we'll I guess that makes us all pussies.



Him.  He's trolling.  It's obvious.  It's de rigueur to post up that stale nonsense in a thread such as this, because plenty of people will bite.  I'm not talking the ITG stuff, but more the "it isn't real durr hurr" bollocks.

chrylis: Kuroshin: Can you identify what exactly about eye contact makes you uncomfortable?

The eye contact.

Yes, but I was asking whether you noted anything specific about the path.  Have you compared yourself to the list of
autistic symptoms, particularly unusual sensitivity to bright lights or loud sounds?



Can't say that I have.  Or at least, I haven't knowingly.  Supposedly there were some autism tests done when I was a young teen, along with tests for learning disorders (had a 1.0GPA).  Kinda laughable, since I was in TAG and out-scored just about everybody else in the State on IQ tests.  Still, I was never made privy to the fact of the tests until very recently, and I was never told what they did or did not find.  My mom said that they ignored the results because at worst I was "high functioning", which they didn't care about (doesn't affect learning), and at best wasn't afflicted with autism at all.  As for bright lights, I *am* photophobic, but that's likely due to two unrelated issues: 1) actual construction of my eye/retina, 2) encephalitis when I was 11.  The photosensitivity didn't really crop up until I was hitting puberty, but with so many other things going on at the time, who's to say what caused it?  There were other signs pointing to possible autism (hyper emotionality, difficulties socializing, compulsive obsession with symmetry, etc.), but like I said, never fully tested or diagnosed.  I'm not the kind of person who puts stock in self-diagnosis of neurological issues, and once I was out on my own I am not the kind of person to spend thousands of dollars just to find a diagnosis that does nothing to change my situation.  Even if I were diagnosed with high-functioning autism, that would just tell me what's wrong without any way of fixing anything.  Waste of money.  Better  to spend it on track days and faster motorcycles.

untaken_name: Kuroshin: Fear is psychological.  This is neurological.

Okay, well, let's get hung up on semantics, then. :) I'm sure that will help! ;) Like I said, skills and abilities aren't evenly distributed. I'll never be a track star, but I can hobble along. Some people can't even do that. Some people could but don't, some people can't. It sounds like you're on the can't side of that. If nothing's working and it is painful to you to try, my advice is to stop trying. You won't be any less shy, but you'll be in less pain.



On the other hand, without trying, I can't socialize at all, and no matter how badly I wish it were otherwise, I suffer the same trauma others do by being shut out from society.  No friends.  No lovers.  Depression.  Self-loathing.  You know, all those things that normal people feel when they get put into solitary confinement.

Gotta keep trying, even though it always ends in failure.  Either that, or buy a bottle of nitrogen and put myself out of my misery.
 
2013-02-14 06:50:01 PM  
I don't have any problem going up to women and talking to them.  It's continuing the conversation as they are screaming and running away that's the hard part.
 
2013-02-14 06:53:16 PM  
>  On the other hand, without trying, I can't socialize at all, and no matter how badly I wish it were otherwise, I suffer the same trauma others do by being shut out from society.  No friends.  No lovers.  Depression.  Self-loathing.  You know, all those things that normal people feel when they get put into solitary confinement.

The difference is, the common judgment is that people like us *deserve* it.

And it's funny.

...well, no, actually, the common consensus is that people like them deserve it too, when they get it. Our society adores the "just world hypothesis".
 
2013-02-14 06:53:36 PM  
Ask your doctor if Shy-Away* is right for you.

*Call your doctor if you experience fever, stiff muscles, confusion, sweating, fast or uneven heartbeats, jerky muscle movements you cannot control, sudden numbness or weakness, headache, confusion, or problems with vision, speech, or balance, fever, chills, body aches, flu symptoms, sores in your mouth and throat, increased thirst or urination, loss of appetite, fruity breath odor, drowsiness, dry skin, nausea, and vomiting, seizure (convulsions), thoughts of hurting yourself, feeling like you might pass out, jaundice (yellowing of your skin or eyes), or urinating less than usual or not at all. You should not take Shy-Away if you're pregnant, having your period, have a pre-existing heart condition, have a history of blood clots or have breathed outside air once in your life.
 
2013-02-14 06:54:34 PM  
There are people who can't leave their house because of anxiety.  When they take a pill, some of these people can leave their house and live normal lives.

Clearly the take away is that they are all scammers who take medication with obnoxious side effects for the attention and that modern psychology is a scam.  There is no chemical reaction that could possibly effect how anxious someone feels or lower their inhibitions.
 
2013-02-14 06:56:23 PM  

HoratioGates: There are people who can't leave their house because of anxiety.  When they take a pill, some of these people can leave their house and live normal lives.

Clearly the take away is that they are all scammers who take medication with obnoxious side effects for the attention and that modern psychology is a scam.  There is no chemical reaction that could possibly effect how anxious someone feels or lower their inhibitions.


No, the take away is "fark them anyways, I don't care how it works because they're farking losers anyways. Anyone who life shiats on is a bad person if I don't feel like helping them."

And you know what? As attitudes go, it *works*. It helps you conserve resources and get ahead in a dog-eat-dog world where everyone else is just as ruthless as you are. And if they aren't, fark 'em.
 
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