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(Today)   Catholic Bishops: Obamacare will force Catholics to sin. New Study: 89% of Catholic women reported using a condom at least once, and 76% were on the pill at some point   (todayhealth.today.com) divider line 144
    More: Obvious, morning-after pills, Catholics, National Center for Health Statistics, IUD, Depo-Provera, sexual intercourses, pregnancy rate, Guttmacher Institute  
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948 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Feb 2013 at 12:25 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-14 07:31:43 AM
Let's say it one more time, just because:

If the people that are sitting in the pews every week actually listened/cared about the "doctrines" you're spouting, nearly 9/10 of them wouldn't be voluntarily sinning on a consistent basis.

It's going to be very hard for them to get upset about free access to something that nearly all of them are using right now.
 
2013-02-14 07:36:24 AM
And the last thing Catholics want is some arbitrary and caprious authoritarian with that kind of arrogance telling them what to do.
 
2013-02-14 07:39:16 AM
Have they taken a look around recently? It's not like we need to shore up the numbers after the plague.
 
2013-02-14 08:17:15 AM
I think the Church's stance on birth control is wrong as do most American Catholics, but the change in Church doctrine should come from within, not from the government forcing it upon the Church. Even if the intentions are benign, we have the Establishment Clause for a reason.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-02-14 08:27:53 AM

Nabb1: I think the Church's stance on birth control is wrong as do most American Catholics, but the change in Church doctrine should come from within, not from the government forcing it upon the Church. Even if the intentions are benign, we have the Establishment Clause for a reason.


Yes, to keep religious zealots from forcing people to live by their religion.  Exactly the sort of thing that Catholic organizations are doping to their employees.
 
2013-02-14 08:33:59 AM

Nabb1: I think the Church's stance on birth control is wrong as do most American Catholics, but the change in Church doctrine should come from within, not from the government forcing it upon the Church. Even if the intentions are benign, we have the Establishment Clause for a reason.


The government is not forcing anyone to take any medication, or to do any action against their wishes.  The current BC proposal responds to their earlier concern by cutting them completely out of the BC picture.  It is directly between the patient and the insurance company, and no church money will be used to pay for it.  And that's on top of an expanded exemption list for houses of worship and related employers.

The church is just grasping at a strawman now - "well, someway, it could possibly, maybe, pay for a BC pill, so help, we're being oppressed".  Well, technically, the money they pay to public utility companies is used in some way to provide power to jails where they put people to death, so if they were really sincere, they'd be protesting that too.
 
2013-02-14 09:35:01 AM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: The government is not forcing anyone to take any medication, or to do any action against their wishes.


Quibbling, it appears the Catholic employers will be required to indicate who they're not buying health insurance for, so coverage can be otherwise arranged for the employees. But that seems like requiring they indicate for which employees they're not collecting withholding taxes, so separate arrangements can be made.

No employer is being required to buy contraception insurance, and no employee once covered is being required to avail themselves of the covered services.
 
2013-02-14 09:49:08 AM
Not really on topic, but I am always amused at the Catholic girls who got pregnant out of wedlock.  So, you have premarital sex, but birth control is a sin?

My (now) wife even brought this up when we were dating.  We had a conversation about it, she realized how ridiculous the notion was, and we started using birth control.

And my favorite are the Catholic women who are thrilled that they "have" to go on birth control for some other medical reason.

This isn't a knock against Catholics, it's amusement at human behavior and twisted logic.
 
2013-02-14 10:23:48 AM
With respect, anybody who still considers that the Catholic hierarchy should be listened to when they start talking about moral issues needs something more powerful than birth control medication.

Some fairly heavy duty anti-psychotics would be a good start
 
2013-02-14 10:38:07 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: With respect, anybody who still considers that the Catholic hierarchy should be listened to when they start talking about moral issues needs something more powerful than birth control medication.

Some fairly heavy duty anti-psychotics would be a good start


the Church certainly seems to have lost any moral authority they might once have had.  somewhere between the pedophilia and financial scandals, the Roman Catholic Church lost the right to tell other people how to be moral and right with the Lord God almighty.
 
2013-02-14 10:42:52 AM
No one is *forced* to provide anything, ya panzies.  Pay the penalty in lieu of providing insurance, and go back to sticking your dick in the priesthole.
 
2013-02-14 10:45:08 AM
The Catholic church has no moral authority on anything. Why should this be surprising.
 
2013-02-14 10:51:05 AM
My family is predominantly Catholic, but let me tell you that without the sin of birth control pills and condoms, we'd be SWIMMING in them. My first sister (the real slut, but she's still married and everything) has 5 kids and 13 grandkids (all illegitimate, by the way, in the eyes of Holy Mother Church).  Second sister has 3 kids, but is still very Catholic The smart one went into the Air Force, and is living in sin and working at the State Department. They live in Reston, VA. My third sister is married to a Navajo and has TWO children, both of whom are successful and have nothing to do with ANY organized church. My brother has 5 kids, all of which want nothing to do with religion, at all. They're also the sweetest of all the grandkids my parents have. They only do nice things for people on holidays, but they do it, they do it well, and it makes your heart go 'daaaaaaaw!"

I'm the gay one, so they're expecting no kids from me, thank God. And then there's my my little sister. One of her sons lives with us, the other is 30 miles away with his dad (yeah, it's a mess.) But the older one is 16 years old and understands god like this, "If he's so omnipotent, why doesn't he just give some people a break. Look at the rest of the world. It's a mess."

I infallibility of the Holy Mother Church has always been an ironic and almost hilarious illusion for most of us. You want to see some action? Sell some of the artwork in the cellars, donate the money to the poor, and just walk away. That's not going to happen. That Church has been about ACQUIRING things (they call them relics) since the 1100s.

The closest I can get to that church is to have some beer (actually did this) with a Jesuit. God, those guys should be the ones in charge.
 
2013-02-14 10:56:06 AM
America's "cafeteria Catholics" are farther ahead of the moral curve than Rome.

Not news so much as an unfortunate reality.
 
2013-02-14 10:59:30 AM
Well that just prove what the Church says. No man is perfect. I guess this goes for women as well. It is only by the grace of god that we are forgiven.


Sorry. I had to go to Roman Catholic class so my wife and I could be married in the one true church. Some of it I remember.
 
2013-02-14 11:05:43 AM
Are you telling me that American women are unlikely to take advice on their sex life from really old celibate men?

Shocked am I.
 
2013-02-14 11:05:48 AM
Are you forced to use birth control? No. Are you forced to directly and specifically pay for someone else's birth control? No. Are you forced to indirectly pay for someone else's birth control? Yes, regardless of the farking law. If you compensate your employees and they use that compensation to pay for birth control, you're paying for it to the same extent that including it in health insurance coverage is paying for it. No one's forcing a pill down your throat or a condom on your dick, so shut the fark up you ironically puritanical uptight preachy shiatbirds.
 
2013-02-14 11:17:29 AM
I never do this but this time it's too perfect

Lionel Mandrake: Are you telling me that American women are unlikely to take advice on their sex life from really old celibate men?

Shocked am I.


FTFY
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-02-14 11:23:23 AM
In Arizona there was a bill to make it easier for private employers to fire people for using contraception.  It makes sense.  health insurance is part of someones compensation, so if they use their salary to buy contraception it's not really any different than using their health insurance.

Silly employees should realize that they are violating their employers right to freedom of religion by having their own religious beliefs.
 
2013-02-14 11:26:29 AM

vpb: In Arizona there was a bill to make it easier for private employers to fire people for using contraception.  It makes sense.  health insurance is part of someones compensation, so if they use their salary to buy contraception it's not really any different than using their health insurance.

Silly employees should realize that they are violating their employers right to freedom of religion by having their own religious beliefs.


So they'd rather she have a kid and pay for all that pre-natal care and the birth, and the maternity leave and have another person on her policy?

Or is the freedom to fire pregnant women also part of the bill?
 
2013-02-14 11:30:07 AM

vpb: Silly employees should realize that they are violating their employers right to freedom of religion by having their own religious beliefs.


Yeah cause employees are forced to work at those companies!! There are pages and pages of laws that force employees to work at places regards of the owners sex, religion, or physical/mental handicaps! And employees pay out huge sums of money defensing themselves from owners that sue them because they won't work at their companies!

oh wait it's exactly the other way around....
 
2013-02-14 11:49:48 AM
I can't believe that anyone takes sex advice from the celibate.  There are thousands of analogies for this.

Taking sex advice from a priest is like taking child molestation advice from Jerry Sandusky.

Damn!  I screwed that up.
 
2013-02-14 12:27:10 PM
I was unaware that Obamacare required people to put on condoms, take birth control, and abort children by use of the morning after pill.
 
2013-02-14 12:29:19 PM
My folks had a Catholic priest tell them back in the 1970's that it was OK for my father to get a vasectomy. He said having an unwanted child was a greater sin.
 
2013-02-14 12:30:03 PM

Earguy: Not really on topic, but I am always amused at the Catholic girls who got pregnant out of wedlock. So, you have premarital sex, but birth control is a sin?


I dated a Catholic girl in high school. Premarital sex was OK with her, but condoms and birth control were not. I'm very proud of my teenage self for realizing the problems there. More than 10 years later, she still doesn't have kids. I'm betting the big A is also on her good list. For her. Not those other girls.
 
2013-02-14 12:32:01 PM
It must be nice to have so much representation without taxation.
 
2013-02-14 12:32:07 PM

Karac: I was unaware that Obamacare required people to put on condoms, take birth control, and abort children by use of the morning after pill.


The ones that survive in spite of all this have to be fatally bludgeoned with a death panel.

I think that part is in the middle somewhere.  Like page 900 something.
 
2013-02-14 12:33:04 PM
I wish the Catholic hierarchy was as concerned by the danger that being forced to pay for the death penalty and wars presents to my immortal soul.

I really wish the Catholic hierarchy was as concerned by the danger that covering up child abuse presents to the immortal soul of every person who has ever put a dollar in the collection basket.
 
2013-02-14 12:33:25 PM

thurstonxhowell: Earguy: Not really on topic, but I am always amused at the Catholic girls who got pregnant out of wedlock. So, you have premarital sex, but birth control is a sin?

I dated a Catholic girl in high school. Premarital sex was OK with her, but condoms and birth control were not. I'm very proud of my teenage self for realizing the problems there. More than 10 years later, she still doesn't have kids. I'm betting the big A is also on her good list. For her. Not those other girls.


The big A?  Abortion or Anal?
We had a girl like that in my high school.  During the day talked about how she was going to be a virgin for her future husband, and at night when guys would sneak over from the male half of the dorms to her room in groups of 3 or 4 she's change her song and dance to remaining a 'technical' virgin.
 
2013-02-14 12:33:42 PM

Wellon Dowd: My folks had a Catholic priest tell them back in the 1970's that it was OK for my father to get a vasectomy. He said having an unwanted child was a greater sin.


That man needs to be the frickin' pope.

However cruel abortion might be, it still pales in comparison to the life of an unwanted child.
 
2013-02-14 12:34:47 PM
Yay, the Catholic Church continues its brilliant tactic of isolating its followers.  They need to get their message across or embrace the change if they want to survive.  But I suppose they would rather bleed out slowly over the course of millennia.
 
2013-02-14 12:35:20 PM

Nabb1: I think the Church's stance on birth control is wrong as do most American Catholics, but the change in Church doctrine should come from within, not from the government forcing it upon the Church. Even if the intentions are benign, we have the Establishment Clause for a reason.


Where in the Bible is birth control prohibited?
 
2013-02-14 12:36:32 PM
Where does it say in Obamacare that you have to have sex with little boys?
 
2013-02-14 12:40:22 PM
Catholics:  Weird...just not Mormon weird.
 
2013-02-14 12:40:56 PM
If birth control causes women to be more promiscuous, then why are the highest everythings about sex (STDs, teen pregnancies, infant mortality rate) in places where BC is banned?

Same thing with sex ed: Highest everything about sex is in places where you teach abstinence-only.
 
2013-02-14 12:41:02 PM
If you don't approve of birth control then don't take. The fact that it will be available to you does not constitute forcing you to consume it.
 
2013-02-14 12:41:04 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: I wish the Catholic hierarchy was as concerned by the danger that being forced to pay for the death penalty and wars presents to my immortal soul.

 Me too, more Catholics should protest at prisons and the pentagon instead of Planned Parenthood. The Church shouldn't speak on politics at all, but the laity should be more organized against capital punishment and war. I find myself reminding Catholics that the Church disapproves of the death penalty and war as much as abortion. Why not leave the hot-button subject of the inside of women's  bodies alone, and focus on the issues that don't involve a compromise in reproductive health and civil rights?
/Catholic
 
2013-02-14 12:41:17 PM
The Bishop apparently has never met any Catholic women.
 
2013-02-14 12:41:18 PM
It is odd to be lectured on morality from someone who farks children.
 
2013-02-14 12:42:51 PM
 
2013-02-14 12:43:34 PM
Can we stop referring to organizations/businesses/companies as religious.  They can't be religious - they're not sentient beings.  Can they go to confession?  Can they sin?  Can they go to hell?  Not in any kind of human way.

The owners or management might be religious, which is not the same thing.  Laws that apply to organizations and businesses can't infringe on the religious rights of the organizations since they can't have religious rights.  The laws in question in this case aren't "You, CEO of GodCare Inc., must use contraceptives" or "You must provide contraceptives".  They're "You, the corporation must provide contraceptives".  If you think this makes your business sin, go right ahead and think that, but follow the law anyway and let God send your company to hell if your company's soul is not in a state of grace when it dies.
 
2013-02-14 12:43:40 PM
No one can force you to sin. A sin is a mental act an act of intent.  Obama doesn't have that level of mind control yet.  His only mind control is his ability to get Republicans to forcefully oppose things they supported until he did.
 
2013-02-14 12:44:19 PM

Karac: thurstonxhowell: Earguy: Not really on topic, but I am always amused at the Catholic girls who got pregnant out of wedlock. So, you have premarital sex, but birth control is a sin?

I dated a Catholic girl in high school. Premarital sex was OK with her, but condoms and birth control were not. I'm very proud of my teenage self for realizing the problems there. More than 10 years later, she still doesn't have kids. I'm betting the big A is also on her good list. For her. Not those other girls.

The big A?  Abortion or Anal?
We had a girl like that in my high school.  During the day talked about how she was going to be a virgin for her future husband, and at night when guys would sneak over from the male half of the dorms to her room in groups of 3 or 4 she's change her song and dance to remaining a 'technical' virgin.


Abortion. Maybe she moved on to anal later, but this girl was no virgin, technical or otherwise. I found out after our brief time together that her previous boyfriend had had to deal with several pregnancy scares.

I'm with a Catholic girl now, but we're using the pill and condoms. I am not going to be a father until I'm damned good and ready.
 
2013-02-14 12:45:12 PM
I wish Catholic rank and file would walk the walk and just join another church or admit they really don't believe in God in their heart of hearts or else they wouldn't be "sinning" or something.  Because the church under the pope that just resigned, and I'm sure under his successor, is more of an instrument of evil than good in the world.
 
2013-02-14 12:48:27 PM
Heavens to Betsy! You mean there is a chance that the church is run by a bunch of old out of touch white guys with no clue about how people are actually living their lives?!!?!? And the pews are full of people who pay lip service to their religion but don't really live their lives based on the doctrine?!?!?!?

I am glad I was sitting down for THAT scoop.
 
2013-02-14 12:50:14 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Are you telling me that American women are unlikely to take advice on their sex life from really old celibate men?


based on statistics, atleast one of those bishops had sex with a little boy, or do little boy's not count in the eyes of the church?


Muta: Where in the Bible is birth control prohibited?


it stems from the decree that sex is for procreation only. what's weird is it also prohibits premarital sex and having children out of wedlock, but nice of them ignore those parts.


The Stealth Hippopotamus: Yeah cause employees are forced to work at those companies!! There are pages and pages of laws that force employees to work at places regards of the owners sex, religion, or physical/mental handicaps! And employees pay out huge sums of money defensing themselves from owners that sue them because they won't work at their companies!

oh wait it's exactly the other way around....


and no one is forcing the catholic church to provide health insurance to it's employees, run a business, or "pay" for contraceptive coverage anymore, yet here they are crying how the rest of the country should be forced to live by their rules.
 
2013-02-14 12:54:52 PM
i'm just surprised Christian Scientist Insurance hasn't shown up yet.  Cheap premiums, but it only covers prayer cards.
 
2013-02-14 12:55:01 PM
NEWS FLASHCatholic Church is slow to adapt to changing times.
 
2013-02-14 12:56:20 PM

heap: i'm just surprised Christian Scientist Insurance hasn't shown up yet.  Cheap premiums, but it only covers prayer cards.


Southern Evangelicals give millions to the TV personalities........its the same thing.
 
2013-02-14 12:56:32 PM

not5am: Lionel Mandrake: Are you telling me that American women are unlikely to take advice on their sex life from really old celibate men?

based on statistics, atleast one of those bishops had sex with a little boy, or do little boy's not count in the eyes of the church?


I'm not sure.  We atheists unilaterally oppose sex with children.
 
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