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(Time)   Mass Effect, Dead Space, Bioshock, Borderlands, Fallout 3 - if you've played any of these modern shooters, you've felt the influence of System Shock 2, which after legal hassles and technical issues were settled, is available again for today's gamers   ( techland.time.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Mass Effect, System Shock 3, BioShock, rights issues, undue influence, gamers  
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5712 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Feb 2013 at 10:35 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-15 12:16:54 AM  

Click Click D'oh: Dimensio: The Crucible and the motive of the Reapers both should have been referenced in the second game, even if those references were cryptic revelations that made sense only with context of events of the third game.

The motives of the reapers never should have been addressed at all.  Why do the reapers do it?  Because, they're reapers.  Enough said.  They are too epic to try to assign motivations to.

Sadly, if you find a copy of the Art of Mass Effect in a book store, you will know for certain the authors were just making it up as they went along... never good.


Giving the Reapers motivation is not bad in itself. Giving the Reapers a seemingly flawed motivation (as many gamers judged the motivation to be) is also not bad in itself, so long as the game acknowledges the motives as being flawed. Stating the motivation only at the very end, with only one previous line of dialogue in the entire series (and that in the final game) offered as foreshadowing (with the option of purchasing extra downloadable content for more explanation) was poor storytelling.
 
2013-02-15 01:05:34 AM  

Dimensio: Click Click D'oh: Dimensio: The Crucible and the motive of the Reapers both should have been referenced in the second game, even if those references were cryptic revelations that made sense only with context of events of the third game.

The motives of the reapers never should have been addressed at all.  Why do the reapers do it?  Because, they're reapers.  Enough said.  They are too epic to try to assign motivations to.

Sadly, if you find a copy of the Art of Mass Effect in a book store, you will know for certain the authors were just making it up as they went along... never good.

Giving the Reapers motivation is not bad in itself. Giving the Reapers a seemingly flawed motivation (as many gamers judged the motivation to be) is also not bad in itself, so long as the game acknowledges the motives as being flawed. Stating the motivation only at the very end, with only one previous line of dialogue in the entire series (and that in the final game) offered as foreshadowing (with the option of purchasing extra downloadable content for more explanation) was poor storytelling.


The part about stating the motivation at the very end with the only foreshadowing being in the last game was poor storytelling. What was worse storytelling was the being that was giving the explanation being a plot hole you could shove the Citadel through.
 
2013-02-15 05:03:02 AM  

Beerguy: [www.visualwalkthroughs.com image 700x525]

I have great memories from playing it.


Is that one of the graphics mods for SS2? Don't recall the They Live chicks, er, midwives having much flesh.
 
2013-02-15 05:35:57 AM  

Dimensio: Click Click D'oh: Dimensio: The Crucible and the motive of the Reapers both should have been referenced in the second game, even if those references were cryptic revelations that made sense only with context of events of the third game.

The motives of the reapers never should have been addressed at all.  Why do the reapers do it?  Because, they're reapers.  Enough said.  They are too epic to try to assign motivations to.

Sadly, if you find a copy of the Art of Mass Effect in a book store, you will know for certain the authors were just making it up as they went along... never good.

Giving the Reapers motivation is not bad in itself. Giving the Reapers a seemingly flawed motivation (as many gamers judged the motivation to be) is also not bad in itself, so long as the game acknowledges the motives as being flawed. Stating the motivation only at the very end, with only one previous line of dialogue in the entire series (and that in the final game) offered as foreshadowing (with the option of purchasing extra downloadable content for more explanation) was poor storytelling.


I respectfully disagree. What made the Reapers so terrifying to me was that their motivations for the systemic, exacting extermination of all sentient life were completely beyond comprehension, in the same sort of way a Terminator is terrifying. You can't bargain or reason with it. You can't understand or empathize with it. And it will not stop. Ever. 

Once you give things that are supposed to be effectively immortal and beyond human comprehension motivations that can be picked apart on some forum, they become standard bad guys.
 
2013-02-15 05:38:22 AM  

Karac: JudgeItoBox: System Shock 2, yeah yeah yeah...

Now how about someone gets TIE Fighter working on a modern system?

I've got the collector's edition CD and got it to work on Windows 7, using a Logitech ps2-style gamepad as a control.  It's wasn't as good a system as the joystick I used to have, but they don't even sell anything that has that port on it anymore.

I might have used DosBOX, but I don't think so; I never quite figured out how to get it to use CD's.


It's not hard, you only have to open the dosbox.conf file in Notepad and paste the following line in at the bottom-

mount d e:\ -t cdrom

Then save the config and it should appear the next time you launch Dosbox.

Change the e to whatever drive letter your actual drive is under Windows. The CD drive will be d: inside of Dosbox. You can change that as well but it's best to leave it as d: as some games may not work if the optical drive is a different letter.

If you want to speed things up you can also mount a virtual drive with Daemon Tools or MagicISO in Windows then use that as the optical drive in Dosbox. I do that and it works well enough for me to usually record an iso file of my original cd and play it off the hard drive instead of waiting for the physical drive to spin up for every access.
 
2013-02-15 08:43:23 AM  

Sergeant Grumbles: I felt kinda cheated that for the Archmage Dragonborn who defeated the World-Devourer, "FUS ROH DAH" was not was one of my dialogue options


Did you try just killing him? It might not of been an explicit option, but I know there are a few instances where you can just kill some people instead of following the choices presented. Ex, the Assassin Recruitment mission. I believe you are presented with the choice of killing 1 or all 3 of the hostages. I chose to kill the assassin instead, cause fark her, I didn't want to join their guild. Gave me the "Wipe out the assassin's guild" storyline. One of the things I love about Skyrim.
 
2013-02-15 09:30:11 AM  

TalenLee: Dimensio: TalenLee: DamnYankees: I don't care - I just want ME4.

What I'd like to see done with the ME license is a plotline that has nothing direct to do with the Shepherd story arc. You have a whole universe. Do something different in it. Go exploring. Don't keep persisting Shepherd's story.

You are correct. Many colours remain unexplored.

Of course, that's not going to happen. The bigger and more successful a franchise gets, the tighter its focus and the narrower its band of options get, because of marketing.

Anyway, seriously, SS2 is amazing. I'm going to be downloading and reviewing it as soon as I have some extra cash kicking around. There's a reason 90s kids like me treat that game like it was the second coming of christ. We say the late 90s was the golden age of PC gaming? For consideration, in 1999 we had Alpha Centauri, Counterstrike, Homeworld, Age of Empires 2, Planescape Torment and this. In one year.


Hellloooo. Thief calling
 
2013-02-15 09:36:32 AM  

neuroflare: Pete_T_Mann: I'm playing it now. I don't see what the big problem with it is that everyone is freaking out about. Yeah, its not as good as the first or second Dead Space, but its still a good game.

The complaint I've heard is you already know what you're facing, so the survival/horror aspect is stripped away and feels like another game where you know you're just looking for the next thing to shoot.

/never beat the first one, borrowed it from a friend who hadn't beat it.
//never played them again afterwards


The first one did give a sense of paranoia. Something was going to jump out at you at all times, The second gave a sense of insanity. It drove me insane when things were not really there. It also gave a sense of dredd and over whelming odds against you. The third, which I played, beaten and loved, gives a sense of ginuine hate towards the antagonist. It also gives a sense of "the end is near" while playing and need to complete the next task and fight your way through the mobs to get there.
 
2013-02-15 11:28:51 AM  

YodaBlues: Did you try just killing him? It might not of been an explicit option, but I know there are a few instances where you can just kill some people instead of following the choices presented. Ex, the Assassin Recruitment mission. I believe you are presented with the choice of killing 1 or all 3 of the hostages. I chose to kill the assassin instead, cause fark her, I didn't want to join their guild. Gave me the "Wipe out the assassin's guild" storyline. One of the things I love about Skyrim.


He's marked as essential, so you can kill him, but he just goes down on one knee, then regenerates.
I loved that part about the Assassin's Guild, that I could just kill them all. The only problem is that didn't seem to happen anywhere else. I couldn't go to Riften and just kill the Thieves' Guild, despite it sounding like everyone in town would like me to do that. And the reverse is true of the Mages College, makes sense I can't just up and kill the dude controlling the magical artifact, but I was still disappointed I didn't have the choice to join the Nazi elves. I made a high elf to see if it was possible, but it wasn't.
 
2013-02-15 11:46:15 AM  

thisiszombocom: TalenLee:

Anyway, seriously, SS2 is amazing. I'm going to be downloading and reviewing it as soon as I have some extra cash kicking around. There's a reason 90s kids like me treat that game like it was the second coming of christ. We say the late 90s was the golden age of PC gaming? For consideration, in 1999 we had Alpha Centauri, Counterstrike, Homeworld, Age of Empires 2, Planescape Torment and this. In one year.

Hellloooo. Thief calling


He gets the BOTD since it was over there hiding in the shadows...  another good game, tho.
 
2013-02-15 01:11:26 PM  

scottydoesntknow: DamnYankees: umad: You must not have played DA2.

/or ME3

Loved DA2, though it wasn't as good as the first.

ME3 was brilliant until the end.

DA2 would've been a great game, had it not been named DA2. This is the best article I can find that describes my feelings toward DA2: Rock, Paper, Shotgun (found it when I was reading the minute-by-minute play of Aliens, hilarious). It's not a bad game by any means, but it played more like an expansion (DA:O's expansion "Awakenings" was only about 5 hours shorter).

I'm currently on my 3rd playthrough of ME3, to get the Insanity achievements. I've gotten over the ending (and I was one of the most vocal opponents of the original), and love all of the quests. The expanded ending is somewhat better. I can see where they went wrong, and in all honesty if they had just changed the starchild to a hologram of Harbinger, I would've been much happier. The starchild is what really took me out of it. You can tell they were building the crucible up to be the end-all weapon throughout the game, but that damn kid just yanked me out. HOW DID YOU KNOW WHAT THAT KID LOOKED LIKE CATALYST?! YOU VAPORIZED HIM IN A SHIP IN THE FIRST 5 MINUTES OF THE GAME!

/Getting SS2 tonight, haven't played it in years


Both DA2 and ME3 (to a certain extent ME2) scream "Rushed Production Schedule". I've heard (so take it with a grain of salt) that DA:O had 5 years development time while DA2 and ME3 only had 2 years.

Create epic star-studded games with great back-story takes way more than 2 years. This is a blatant cost-cutting maneuver from higher up and a way to sell DLC from bits that didn't make it.

Also an interesting note for ME is that NONE of the writers from ME1 were there for ME3, which is why there's plot holes and the ending was written in like an hour without input of the other writers.

/Everyone should take Project Management 101
 
2013-02-15 01:33:02 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: YodaBlues: Did you try just killing him? It might not of been an explicit option, but I know there are a few instances where you can just kill some people instead of following the choices presented. Ex, the Assassin Recruitment mission. I believe you are presented with the choice of killing 1 or all 3 of the hostages. I chose to kill the assassin instead, cause fark her, I didn't want to join their guild. Gave me the "Wipe out the assassin's guild" storyline. One of the things I love about Skyrim.

He's marked as essential, so you can kill him, but he just goes down on one knee, then regenerates.
I loved that part about the Assassin's Guild, that I could just kill them all. The only problem is that didn't seem to happen anywhere else. I couldn't go to Riften and just kill the Thieves' Guild, despite it sounding like everyone in town would like me to do that. And the reverse is true of the Mages College, makes sense I can't just up and kill the dude controlling the magical artifact, but I was still disappointed I didn't have the choice to join the Nazi elves. I made a high elf to see if it was possible, but it wasn't.


The whole "Can't kill the Thieves Guild", drives me nuts. Also I wish I could tell BOTH sides in the civil war to fark off because I hate racists and Thalmor Appeasers.
 
2013-02-15 01:43:10 PM  

shortymac: Both DA2 and ME3 (to a certain extent ME2) scream "Rushed Production Schedule". I've heard (so take it with a grain of salt) that DA:O had 5 years development time while DA2 and ME3 only had 2 years.

Create epic star-studded games with great back-story takes way more than 2 years. This is a blatant cost-cutting maneuver from higher up and a way to sell DLC from bits that didn't make it.


Well they had the engine and the core of game made.  The programmers and designers were in rhythm so it could have easily been sped up, and how intense are the first two years of development?  I'm guessing a ton of art and concept development take up the first year for massive franchises.  ME1 was buggy as hell, and 2 and 3 were pretty smooth.  The only thing rushed or segmented was story IMO.
 
2013-02-15 01:58:50 PM  

shortymac: Sergeant Grumbles: YodaBlues: Did you try just killing him? It might not of been an explicit option, but I know there are a few instances where you can just kill some people instead of following the choices presented. Ex, the Assassin Recruitment mission. I believe you are presented with the choice of killing 1 or all 3 of the hostages. I chose to kill the assassin instead, cause fark her, I didn't want to join their guild. Gave me the "Wipe out the assassin's guild" storyline. One of the things I love about Skyrim.

He's marked as essential, so you can kill him, but he just goes down on one knee, then regenerates.
I loved that part about the Assassin's Guild, that I could just kill them all. The only problem is that didn't seem to happen anywhere else. I couldn't go to Riften and just kill the Thieves' Guild, despite it sounding like everyone in town would like me to do that. And the reverse is true of the Mages College, makes sense I can't just up and kill the dude controlling the magical artifact, but I was still disappointed I didn't have the choice to join the Nazi elves. I made a high elf to see if it was possible, but it wasn't.

The whole "Can't kill the Thieves Guild", drives me nuts. Also I wish I could tell BOTH sides in the civil war to fark off because I hate racists and Thalmor Appeasers.


I consider The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind to be the last "pure" computer Elder Scrolls game. While ported to the XBox, the game was designed entirely for a computer and only ported after the fact to a gaming console. This is evident in the game interface and presentation; controls are still somewhat complex (even if simplified from Daggerfall), in-game menus are mouse-pointer driven and interface text -- including and especially dialogue -- is small and plentiful.

A consequence of this design method is a less forgiving presentation. The game is intended for slightly more advanced audiences, thus the game features substantially less railroading and less guidance. The game also does not prevent players from taking actions that may fundamentally dead-end in-game quests, including the main quest of the game (players are usually warned when a character critical to the main quest is killed, though occasionally a character is improperly flagged or not flagged and this flag is not removed even when the character's use in the main quest is completed).

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim were obviously designed for the game consoles on which they were released and ported to Windows afterward. The game controls are further simplified to be fully mappable to a console game controller, the interface is large to keep it usable on a television screen located farther from the player than a computer monitor would be and the interface itself is clearly created around controller use rather than mouse use (this is especially noticeable in Skyrim, to the extent that many players use an interface mod to make the interface less cumbersome).

A consequence of this design is an attempt to make a presentation with greater audience appeal. Objectives for in-game quests are always marked on the player's map, even when the objective is a mobile target (in Morrowind map markers were added only for specific locations, and at times a quest giver would only give directions to a location rather than a marker; additionally, markers were not trackable via the game compass) and quests were more railroaded to prevent them from being broken.

tl;dr; Skyrim and Oblivion do not allow the "choice" of mass destruction that you describe specifically to create broader appeal. In this respect, I believe Morrowind to be a superior game to either.
 
2013-02-15 02:03:19 PM  
I should mention also that The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind offers a method for completing the main quest even if vital characters for the story are killed early. This method is complicated and not well documented in-game; the game will not explain to the player how they may still complete the main objective should they break the path of the main story, so a substantial amount of in-game exploration and research is required. Neither The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion nor The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim offer such an interesting alternative method; both games require the player to follow a predefined set of events with no variance (in Skyrim, the choice of side in the civil war is its own sidequest, the main quest requires only that the civil war be resolved and thus the choice of side is not itself a part of the main quest) for completion.
 
2013-02-15 02:03:33 PM  

Dimensio: I consider The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind to be the last "pure" computer Elder Scrolls game


I miss jumping from city to city and punching orcs and demons to death, then selling my goods to a talking crab.  I haven't truly enjoyed an Elder Scrolls since.  It was like being Neo without cheat codes.
 
2013-02-15 02:11:51 PM  

Dimensio: tl;dr; Skyrim and Oblivion do not allow the "choice" of mass destruction that you describe specifically to create broader appeal. In this respect, I believe Morrowind to be a superior game to either.


tl:dr summation
fuuka.warosu.org
:)   and i absolutely agree.  We are few, we are dying off, and the industry is dreaming of the day when we are not around asking for things that are not easy to produce for the masses like the bland tasteless colorful gruel that they spoon feed to everyone today.  When we are gone, game designers will dance in the street and everything they produce there after will be 1 hour long, and require no more effort than clicking "play" once.  I hope I am not alive to see it.
 
2013-02-15 02:12:49 PM  

thecpt: Dimensio: I consider The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind to be the last "pure" computer Elder Scrolls game

I miss jumping from city to city and punching orcs and demons to death, then selling my goods to a talking crab.  I haven't truly enjoyed an Elder Scrolls since.  It was like being Neo without cheat codes.


I miss the ability to create a potion to increase my Intelligence, drink it, create another potion (using a skill dependent upon Intelligence), drink it, and repeat the cycle several times until my character had achieved a level of genius so great that he could use novice-level equipment to create potions that healed more than five-hundred hit points per second (which lasted at least a full in-game day), potions that gave him the strength to knock a physical god unconscious in a single hit (and to kill the god in a second hit) and potions that would allow him to run so quickly that he could start at one side of the island and reach the other side before the game could adequately load the meshes and textures for it.
 
2013-02-15 02:14:50 PM  
I'm Commander Shepard and I'm tired of these ending debates.
 
2013-02-15 02:23:51 PM  

orclover: Dimensio: tl;dr; Skyrim and Oblivion do not allow the "choice" of mass destruction that you describe specifically to create broader appeal. In this respect, I believe Morrowind to be a superior game to either.

tl:dr summation
[fuuka.warosu.org image 467x325]


For fair consideration, I no longer wear glasses following corrective surgery, and I do shave every Sunday.


:)   and i absolutely agree.  We are few, we are dying off, and the industry is dreaming of the day when we are not around asking for things that are not easy to produce for the masses like the bland tasteless colorful gruel that they spoon feed to everyone today.  When we are gone, game designers will dance in the street and everything they produce there after will be 1 hour long, and require no more effort than clicking "play" once.  I hope I am not alive to see it.

I suspect that an attempt to broaden appeal is the primary reason for the simplification of game presentation in recent years, but I suspect also that advances in technology have some impact. Games like Morrowind, the Baldur's Gate series (and other games using the Infinity Engine), Arcanum and other older role playing games often featured a substantial quantity of dialogue, but the most of the dialogue was not voice acted. With current game technology, voice acting is an expected feature, necessitating the dedication of a portion of the game budget to voice talent and necessitating a portion of the development time to recording of all of the game dialogue. Oblivion seems, to me, to feature significantly less dialogue than does Morrowind, but that is in part because the developers had to hire Lynda Carter to say everything that every Nord (and Orc) woman might say, instead of just a small set of simple greetings.
 
2013-02-15 02:27:08 PM  

Commander Shepard: I'm Commander Shepard and I'm tired of these ending debates.


You're dead, so we're just seeing things.
 
2013-02-15 02:30:56 PM  

umad: Commander Shepard: I'm Commander Shepard and I'm tired of these ending debates.

You're dead, so we're just seeing things.


...(s)he was breathing...

Shepard is STILL ALIVE
 
2013-02-15 02:42:32 PM  

thecpt: umad: Commander Shepard: I'm Commander Shepard and I'm tired of these ending debates.

You're dead, so we're just seeing things.

...(s)he was breathing...

Shepard is STILL ALIVE


I dunno, I thought (s)he dove into a tower of light and disintegrated

/everyone else survived though
 
2013-02-15 02:51:12 PM  

neuroflare: thecpt: umad: Commander Shepard: I'm Commander Shepard and I'm tired of these ending debates.

You're dead, so we're just seeing things.

...(s)he was breathing...

Shepard is STILL ALIVE

I dunno, I thought (s)he dove into a tower of light and disintegrated

/everyone else survived though


I still want to see a new ending where Tommy Westphall is shown holding a snowglobe containing a miniature Normandy.
 
2013-02-15 03:08:48 PM  

Dimensio: neuroflare: thecpt: umad: Commander Shepard: I'm Commander Shepard and I'm tired of these ending debates.

You're dead, so we're just seeing things.

...(s)he was breathing...

Shepard is STILL ALIVE

I dunno, I thought (s)he dove into a tower of light and disintegrated

/everyone else survived though

I still want to see a new ending where Tommy Westphall is shown holding a snowglobe containing a miniature Normandy.


Just get that damn top on the table to stop spinning.  That perpetual motion is really farking annoying.
 
2013-02-15 04:52:32 PM  

shortymac: The whole "Can't kill the Thieves Guild", drives me nuts. Also I wish I could tell BOTH sides in the civil war to fark off because I hate racists and Thalmor Appeasers.


I was hoping for the opportunity on one side or the other to become leader of the faction. Knock off Ulfric, become high king, next stop, the White-Gold Tower to restore a Dragonborn to the Imperial Throne. Hoping for something like that in an expansion.
 
2013-02-15 06:26:32 PM  

Burr: Agent Smiths Laugh: I am SHODAN!

/maybe a bit spoilerish...

Nah.. It is heavily implied SHODAN is in the game.  You know, box art and all.


Didn't stop me from having a HOLY shiat HOLY shiat moment. One of my top all time gaming moments, up there with Shepard's induction as a Spectre.
 
2013-02-15 07:30:02 PM  

MadSkillz: Burr: Agent Smiths Laugh: I am SHODAN!

/maybe a bit spoilerish...

Nah.. It is heavily implied SHODAN is in the game.  You know, box art and all.

Didn't stop me from having a HOLY shiat HOLY shiat moment. One of my top all time gaming moments, up there with Shepard's induction as a Spectre.


Best holy shiat moment for me was the KOTOR surprise. Made it instantly one of my favorite games.
 
2013-02-15 09:54:24 PM  
indoctrination theory is real to me

I buy that as the only acceptable explanation and resolution to the otherwise abortion of an end to an epic, great scifi franchise.

It's ironic that even when they accidentally write a good ending, the terribleness at bioware has to look that gift horse in the mouth and insist their retarded half-assed ending is canon.

the reason that story was ruined is the same reason EAioware will ruin everything they touch... the synergy of those organizations can't get over themselves and get out of the way of letting a good game happen. They'll never admit to being wrong, never fix a mistake. It's never a problem with the game, it's just a message conveyance issue... "see, this game is really great, you entitled gamers just don't understand what a good video game is"

To borrow a phrase; they could screw up a wet dream.

/haven't bought an EA game since and never will again.
//meanwhile, I'll just mail CDProjekt Red money without asking anything in return. I know they'll give me something awesome time after time after time eventually.
 
2013-02-15 10:46:25 PM  

MurphyMurphy: indoctrination theory is real to me


It really does work best. Destruction does seem to be the only way to go out like Shepard, and Indoc Theory just makes it that much more satisfying.
 
2013-02-15 11:21:27 PM  

Dimensio: Giving the Reapers motivation is not bad in itself. Giving the Reapers a seemingly flawed motivation (as many gamers judged the motivation to be) is also not bad in itself, so long as the game acknowledges the motives as being flawed. Stating the motivation only at the very end, with only one previous line of dialogue in the entire series (and that in the final game) offered as foreshadowing (with the option of purchasing extra downloadable content for more explanation) was poor storytelling.


If you come back to this thread, or someone else knows, what line of dialog is he talking about that foreshadows the star kid and sets up the Leviathan DLC? I feel like I must have missed it.


shortymac: Also an interesting note for ME is that NONE of the writers from ME1 were there for ME3, which is why there's plot holes and the ending was written in like an hour without input of the other writers.


I feel like the original head writer on ME1(who also did a lot of the writing for ME2 and wrote a couple of the books, and left the company after working on TOR) is probably pissed at what they did to his story. The original ending was supposed to somehow involve Dark Matter and the rapidly aging star from Tali's mission in ME2, if I'm not mistaken.


MurphyMurphy: //meanwhile, I'll just mail CDProjekt Red money without asking anything in return. I know they'll give me something awesome time after time after time eventually.


I hear they  finally fixed a game breaking bug that came with the upgrade everyone got to the enhanced edition, so I'll have to get back into it.  A switch I needed to hit to advance the defense of the Dwarf city mission was missing, apparently a problem with every pre-enhanced edition save on the Scoiatel path that wasn't past that mission. At the time they said flat out they weren't going to fix it, and the only workaround was a convoluted process of applying an older version of the game and tricking steam into letting it run without updating.
 
2013-02-15 11:38:59 PM  

HalEmmerich: If you come back to this thread, or someone else knows, what line of dialog is he talking about that foreshadows the star kid and sets up the Leviathan DLC? I feel like I must have missed it.


The "Star Child" element is not itself foreshadowed. The motivation of the Reapers -- being a solution to the supposed inevitable conflict between synthetic intelligences and organic life -- is foreshadowed in the conversation with Reaper at the end of the Rannoch mission. To my recollection, no other line of dialogue foreshadows their motive.

Interestingly, Shepard is able to argue the point at that time, but is not presented any opportunity for challenging the stated motive at the end of the game.

The Leviathan add-on more or less establishes the Reaper's motivation on its own, but I am only considering content included within the main series, and not content within optional for-pay content.
 
2013-02-16 11:06:13 AM  
OK.  Back to System Shock 2.  I bought it off GOG last night and played until 2 AM.  It still has it where it counts.  Plenty of creepiness.  The amazing thing is that it just goes to show that graphics are where all the bloat is in the size of games nowadays.  For SS2, the installer is just 362MB.  The whole installation is just 709MB.  Saves and loads are near instantaneous on today's hardware.  I'm really enjoying this!

\A damn sight faster than my Pentium 266 back in the day!
 
2013-02-16 12:10:26 PM  

Captain Meatsack: OK.  Back to System Shock 2.  I bought it off GOG last night and played until 2 AM.  It still has it where it counts.  Plenty of creepiness.  The amazing thing is that it just goes to show that graphics are where all the bloat is in the size of games nowadays.  For SS2, the installer is just 362MB.  The whole installation is just 709MB.  Saves and loads are near instantaneous on today's hardware.  I'm really enjoying this!

\A damn sight faster than my Pentium 266 back in the day!


I'm getting a huge kick out of going back and playing older titles I didn't have the privilege of playing when they first came out.  Quality is not a graphic.  Quality gets it's hooks in you no matter how blocky or unintelligible the graphics are.  I farking love it!
 
2013-02-16 04:35:27 PM  

Dimensio: Aquapope: Arrrghhh!  This thread made me want to play SS2 again.  I can't even get it to start the install on this Win7 machine.  I suppose I could install it in a virtual XP machine, but how much hassle do I want to go through?...

Strange. I experienced no difficulty making the game run in Windows 7 64-bit. The game must be run with only a single core, as it will freeze when running with multiple cores, but otherwise I experienced fewer technical problems than I did when running it in Windows XP.


Well, I'm the doofus of the day.   I cleaned the disk and it worked.  It didn't even look dirty, but I spritsed a little lens cleaner on it and boing! it worked
 
2013-02-16 07:07:58 PM  
In case anyone's still reading, here's how to get an original System Shock 2 disc to work in newer versions of Windows.

Problems with cutscenes after following those instructions? Go here.

I've been busy this weekend, otherwise I'd have been all over this thread. I've had the game running just dandy for half a week now.
 
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