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(The New York Times)   NYT journalist gives his side of the Tesla S story. Jeremy Clarkson smiling, stroking cat   (wheels.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 239
    More: Followup, NYT, Model S, detour, New Jersey Turnpike, cats, journalists, Lincoln Tunnel, Elon Musk  
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15380 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2013 at 12:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-14 02:21:11 PM

DaAlien: Tesla also claims the car was never fully discharged. The flatbed driver disagrees:
http://jalopnik.com/towing-company-the-nyt-tesla-model-s-was-dead-wh en -it-196100064


iirc, the battery bricks if it fully discharges (and coincidentally isn't covered by insurance or warranty), so:

i.qkme.me
 
2013-02-14 02:21:30 PM

themanuf: GPS will give you a location at any given moment.  You would have to be polling gps data at an insane rate and with very high accuracy to generate that chart.  Also, you would need to account for the time domain if you are going to calculate speed based on location/time data.  Correcting for the moments when the car wasn't moving would be difficult and annoying.


GPS also gives you speed information based on Doppler shift measurements of the signals received. No GPS sets do distance/time for speed. Apologies if you knew this.
 
2013-02-14 02:21:39 PM
I lost all sympathy for the NYT reporter when his 2 mile detour was through downtown Manhatten. Yes, it's 2 miles. I've burned a quarter tank of gas doing 2 miles like that.
 
2013-02-14 02:22:53 PM

Source4leko: Great Janitor: Jeremy Clarkson is probably my favorite reality show person and I love everything he says and does on Top Gear.  Last time I bought a car I treated each test drive as if I were Jeremy Clarkson doing something on Top Gear.  There are many used car salesmen who hate me.

There's no way I'd buy a car from someone who wouldn't let me drive it like I'm Jeremy Clarkson.  Is there something wrong with the it that they are trying to hide?  If there's not, it should do 0-60 pretty close to what its published time is.


If the engine (internal combustion) has <500-1500 miles on it, you better not drive like Jeremy Clarkson, else you just farked up someone else's new ride.  Cars have break-in periods.
 
2013-02-14 02:24:21 PM

Evil Twin Skippy: I lost all sympathy for the NYT reporter when his 2 mile detour was through downtown Manhatten. Yes, it's 2 miles. I've burned a quarter tank of gas doing 2 miles like that.


Did you forget the point where he told Tesla about the stop in NYC before leaving with the car?

Because that's an important point if you're going to lose all sympathy for him for doing it, when he was told he was able to.

It's also important to remember that he went to bed with 90 miles in his battery and woke up with 25 miles left?

Do you expect gasoline to leave your tank because it's a cold night?
 
2013-02-14 02:24:56 PM

MadCat: Yes there are some consistencies with the data and the reporter's account that could be explained by improperly calibrated gauges or telemetry. That's not the point. The one damning error the reporter made was putting in half as much juice as required for the subsequent leg of his trip after nearly running out of juice on prior legs. Expecting a car running on any energy source to be able to go 60+ miles on 31 miles worth of energy is insanity.

The reporter needs to admit that he made a mistake, only then can he defend the rest of his review.


The thing is that the car crapping out was the main part of his review. It was the title, the lead in and the climax of the article. He can't go and say 'well, ok, the having to get towed bit was fully my fault for not filling up the tank at all and then passing charging stations while on empty, but the rest is all good', because most of the rest was leading into that part. There would be no defence of the rest of it at that point.

This is not going to go well for Broder however he swings it at this point, so he might as well stick to his guns and hope the NYT sticks by him.
 
2013-02-14 02:25:14 PM

Evil Twin Skippy: I lost all sympathy for the NYT reporter when his 2 mile detour was through downtown Manhatten. Yes, it's 2 miles. I've burned a quarter tank of gas doing 2 miles like that.


As has been pointed out, though, electric cars don't really care about stop-start driving in the way ic cars do.

Anyway, the reporter says he made a prearranged detour through Manhattan. Musk complains that the reporter made a detour through Manhattan. Big deal.
 
2013-02-14 02:28:11 PM

fluffy2097: MadCat: Yes there are some consistencies with the data and the reporter's account that could be explained by improperly calibrated gauges or telemetry. That's not the point. The one damning error the reporter made was putting in half as much juice as required for the subsequent leg of his trip after nearly running out of juice on prior legs. Expecting a car running on any energy source to be able to go 60+ miles on 31 miles worth of energy is insanity.

The reporter needs to admit that he made a mistake, only then can he defend the rest of his review.

Before I set out from my home in suburban Washington, I informed Tesla that I intended to make a brief stop in New York and that I would spend the night in the vicinity of Milford rather than trying to make it to Boston, which was theoretically possible with a full charge at Milford, although it was a bitterly cold night - and that clearly affects the car's range. I added 185 miles of range at Milford, knowing that I wouldn't need 242 or 265 miles before recharging the next morning.
When I parked the car for the night at a hotel, the range meter showed 90 miles remaining, and I was about 45 miles from the Milford Supercharger. As I recounted in the article, when I awoke the next morning the indicated range was 25 miles.

/since you can't read the article


So nice of you to assume that's the situation I was referring to. It was actually the final charge at the Norwich station.  I did misremember the data point however, it was 35 miles of energy instead of 31.

/Reading comprehension wasn't your strong point was it?
 
2013-02-14 02:30:17 PM

fluffy2097: Theaetetus: one would expect a car on loan from the manufacturer would have the correct size wheels for its configuration data.

I expect it to be within 5mph +/-


Since I believe Tesla complies with Federal law, I expect it to be within 2.5% +/-. So, 5mph off, if you're doing 100 mph. Not if you're at 45.

The data discrepancy shows about 7-10 mph, but you've got that +/- 5mph on both tracking devices (Remember, civilian GPS is only accurate to a few meters we don't get milspec 2" accurate GPS).

For instantaneous position, you're correct. However, you can assume that the car is not teleporting from a standstill every 3 meters, so, after averaging multiple position readings over time, the GPS-based average speed should be very, very accurate.
 
2013-02-14 02:34:31 PM

orbister: RexTalionis: I'm confused. He thinks stop and go will actually use less power than simply cruising at speed? Even with battery regeneration from braking, did he think that he's not expending more power having to accelerate a car from zero to whatever than he will get back through regeneration?

Slow speed driving uses less energy than high speed driving. Even with stop-and-go, I'd expect two miles in city traffic to use less energy than two miles at motorway speeds.


False. Acceleration uses energy. Maintaining a speed requires far less energy than constantly accelerating and decelerating.
 
2013-02-14 02:35:08 PM

orbister: RexTalionis: I'm confused. He thinks stop and go will actually use less power than simply cruising at speed? Even with battery regeneration from braking, did he think that he's not expending more power having to accelerate a car from zero to whatever than he will get back through regeneration?

Slow speed driving uses less energy than high speed driving. Even with stop-and-go, I'd expect two miles in city traffic to use less energy than two miles at motorway speeds.


Goddamn you're stupid.
 
2013-02-14 02:36:09 PM

Theaetetus: fluffy2097: Theaetetus: one would expect a car on loan from the manufacturer would have the correct size wheels for its configuration data.

I expect it to be within 5mph +/-

Since I believe Tesla complies with Federal law, I expect it to be within 2.5% +/-. So, 5mph off, if you're doing 100 mph. Not if you're at 45.


Er, 200, obviously.
 
2013-02-14 02:37:29 PM

Theaetetus: For instantaneous position, you're correct. However, you can assume that the car is not teleporting from a standstill every 3 meters, so, after averaging multiple position readings over time, the GPS-based average speed should be very, very accurate.


No, they should be precise.

Accurate is entirely different.

/you're still 3 meters off when you're off consistently by 3 meters.
 
2013-02-14 02:37:54 PM

JMan245: MOM, he broke the vase!

No i didn't, he did!

No, it wasn't me, it was him!

Nuh-uh, he did it!


I'm just sitting here watching the kids argue...


...and parents like you are why we can't have nice things.
 
2013-02-14 02:39:05 PM

Atreyou40: They even call it magic.  So yeah, you two are idiots.


Entropy, how does it work?
 
2013-02-14 02:39:22 PM
TheDirtyNacho:
I would think the telemetry is a bit more accurate than "well, I'm pretty sure I never drove over 60".  Humans are god awful at estimating what they were doing with precision.

While I agree with you, sensors can also have huge accuracy variation in the real world too. Look at fuel mileage range estimations for instance. Hills, Temps etc. can affect displayed readings.
I have seen crazy things that I would never have believed until I was there to eyeball for myself.

Also, about the integrity of the Data musk provided. Is he a fella genuinely pissed precisely because his data proves he is a victim of Yellow Journalism, or did the Journo inadvertently expose shiat that prompted him to start some misconceived crusade to protect his brand?

Some of the contradictions of the narrative had me wondering.
 
2013-02-14 02:40:14 PM

fluffy2097: It's also important to remember that he went to bed with 90 miles in his battery and woke up with 25 miles left?

Do you expect gasoline to leave your tank because it's a cold night?


www.teslamotors.com www.teslamotors.com
Does it look to anyone else that he set the cabin temp to max for a while at mile 400, right when his range dropped?

I wonder if, when "he went to bed," he bothered turning the car off.
 
2013-02-14 02:41:29 PM

fluffy2097: Theaetetus: For instantaneous position, you're correct. However, you can assume that the car is not teleporting from a standstill every 3 meters, so, after averaging multiple position readings over time, the GPS-based average speed should be very, very accurate.

No, they should be precise.

Accurate is entirely different.

/you're still 3 meters off when you're off consistently by 3 meters.


If I'm "consistently off by 3 meters" in my distance measurement, then my speed is  perfectly accurate. Remember, dx/dt of a constant is 0.
 
2013-02-14 02:45:26 PM

fluffy2097: Before I set out from my home in suburban Washington, I informed Tesla that I intended to make a brief stop in New York and that I would spend the night in the vicinity of Milford rather than trying to make it to Boston, which was theoretically possible with a full charge at Milford, although it was a bitterly cold night - and that clearly affects the car's range. I added 185 miles of range at Milford, knowing that I wouldn't need 242 or 265 miles before recharging the next morning.When I parked the car for the night at a hotel, the range meter showed 90 miles remaining, and I was about 45 miles from the Milford Supercharger. As I recounted in the article, when I awoke the next morning the indicated range was 25 miles.

/since you can't read the article


Yep, that's what he said - but not what he did.
www.teslamotors.com

He recharged only to 72% at Millford. Almost immediately after giving it a 3/4's charge, he did an 80+ mph stint in the car, and kept about 65mph for the next 60 miles (even when you factor in a 5mph error in the speedo). He then parked overnight, without plugging in the car. When he woke up, he sat in the car and ran the heater for 30 minutes (which you can see the large decline in battery power @ 400 miles).

If you look at the range after the brief Norwich charge, he had some 28% of battery charge left, and according to the author, he only needed to go 45 miles. If you look at the point of the Norwich charge and when the car was effectively empty, it suspiciously looks like he traveled at least 50 miles.

It's pretty easy to see that if he had done any of these actions, the review would be far different:
-Had the reviewer charged the car for 10 more minutes at the Millford super charger (let alone fully charge it), he would have made it
-Had the reviewer trickle charged while he was sleeping at the hotel, he would have made it.
-Had the reviewer charged for 20 more minutes more at Norwich, he would have made it.
-Had the reviewer not done illegal speeds on the interstate and kept to the speed limit, he would have made it.
 
2013-02-14 02:46:56 PM

ChuckNorrisSays: Jeremy Clarkson is an assbag.


He punched Piers Morgan in the face. I really don't care whatever he says or does after that, he's elevated to sainthood. As it happens, however, he has continued to annoy all the right people.
 
2013-02-14 02:47:30 PM

Theaetetus: Does it look to anyone else that he set the cabin temp to max for a while at mile 400, right when his range dropped?

I wonder if, when "he went to bed," he bothered turning the car off.


The car does not turn off. It runs heaters to keep the battery from freezing.

If those heaters can heat the cabin to 74 degrees, I don't know. You'd think Elon would be screaming about that though if it were true, given the loud mouth little brat he is with his logs and irrefutable data made by Open Office.

I believe what that shows is the fundamental problem with electric cars in cold climates. They leech their power directly into the air in cold weather, even when not moving.
 
2013-02-14 02:47:56 PM

Theaetetus: fluffy2097: It's also important to remember that he went to bed with 90 miles in his battery and woke up with 25 miles left?

Do you expect gasoline to leave your tank because it's a cold night?

 
Does it look to anyone else that he set the cabin temp to max for a while at mile 400, right when his range dropped?

I wonder if, when "he went to bed," he bothered turning the car off.


Most likely just turned it on high in the morning to warm up the cabin, which would explain the spike. Still, it's the not filling up at Norwich which is the stupid part.
 
2013-02-14 02:49:56 PM

maddermaxx: Most likely just turned it on high in the morning to warm up the cabin, which would explain the spike.


God. What an asshole. What kind of reviewer would do something like use heat in an electric Vehicle in the winter?
 
2013-02-14 02:50:02 PM

ukexpat: ChuckNorrisSays: Jeremy Clarkson is an assbag.umad

Possibly, but he did punch Piers Morgan in the face, so he does have that going for him.

is this true?

he's even more awesome than i previously thought

even robert smith of the cure agrees
www.ridelust.com
 
2013-02-14 02:50:20 PM

Theaetetus: Does it look to anyone else that he set the cabin temp to max for a while at mile 400, right when his range dropped?

I wonder if, when "he went to bed," he bothered turning the car off.


Remember, that isn't a charge of charge vs. time - it's a chart of charge vs. distance. Since he was sitting in a parking lot for quite some time, not moving, while running the heat full blast, you'd see a huge drop at one particular moment on the graph. Looks like he drained about 10% of the battery doing this.
 
2013-02-14 02:51:11 PM

Theaetetus: fluffy2097: It's also important to remember that he went to bed with 90 miles in his battery and woke up with 25 miles left?

Do you expect gasoline to leave your tank because it's a cold night?

[www.teslamotors.com image 619x460] [www.teslamotors.com image 626x465]
Does it look to anyone else that he set the cabin temp to max for a while at mile 400, right when his range dropped?

I wonder if, when "he went to bed," he bothered turning the car off.


Not sure. Something caused the battery to lose charge, there's no question about that. Whether it was reporter error or environmentally related doesn't really matter. The issue is that the reporter did not take steps to remedy the problem after it occurred and then blamed the manufacturer. It's the equivalent of having all the gasoline siphoned out of your tank while you slept, replacing a gallon of it, then trying to drive 60 miles on that gallon. If this had been a regular car his friends and co-workers would have rightly slapped him upside the head and called him an idiot.
 
2013-02-14 02:53:00 PM

MrSteve007: Yep, that's what he said - but not what he did.


You need new glasses. The logs and he both say he had 185 miles at Norwich
 
2013-02-14 02:55:45 PM

JMan245: I'm just sitting here watching the kids argue...


Mom always said don't drive electric cars in the house.
 
2013-02-14 02:56:01 PM

fluffy2097: maddermaxx: Most likely just turned it on high in the morning to warm up the cabin, which would explain the spike.

God. What an asshole. What kind of reviewer would do something like use heat in an electric Vehicle in the winter?


No offence, but you sound like an asshole when you attack a strawman like that, because no one called him an asshole for warming up the car.

Wait a sec, scratch the first two words, that offence was pretty deliberate.
 
2013-02-14 02:56:04 PM
www.teslamotors.com

What asshole drives around in a parking lot with an area of 3.5 miles for 5 whole minutes and goes 0.6 whole miles to find a spot?

/oh, anyone who's ever been in a full parking lot.
//Seriously Elon? You want me to believe this sort of shiat is abuse?
 
2013-02-14 02:58:09 PM

fluffy2097: MrSteve007: Yep, that's what he said - but not what he did.

You need new glasses. The logs and he both say he had 185 miles at Norwich


No, they both say he had 185 miles at Milford Supercharge #1. He had 35 miles when he left Norwich.

/Perhaps you should lay off the insults a bit?
 
2013-02-14 03:01:24 PM

MadCat: No, they both say he had 185 miles at Milford Supercharge #1. He had 35 miles when he left Norwich.

/Perhaps you should lay off the insults a bit?


So you think its fine that he went from 90 miles to 25 overnight and was FORCED to stop at Norwich to limp to the superchargers that he was supposed to be testing? That's not a problem with the car at all could it be?
 
2013-02-14 03:05:00 PM

IlGreven: JMan245: MOM, he broke the vase!

No i didn't, he did!

No, it wasn't me, it was him!

Nuh-uh, he did it!


I'm just sitting here watching the kids argue...

...and parents like you are why we can't have nice things.


if you only knew that i'm not a parent...
 
2013-02-14 03:05:38 PM
Oh I fully agree it's a problem. The reporter should have reported on THAT problem. Instead he failed to take steps to replace the lost range and failed to disclose or acknowledge that he caused the car to run out of power. The article should have been about how he had to spend extra time at Norwich to replace overnight power loss, not about how he had to be towed back to a charge station.
 
2013-02-14 03:07:18 PM
'Critiquing' is not a verb, 'criticizing' however, is.
 
2013-02-14 03:09:24 PM

MadCat: Oh I fully agree it's a problem. The reporter should have reported on THAT problem. Instead he failed to take steps to replace the lost range and failed to disclose or acknowledge that he caused the car to run out of power. The article should have been about how he had to spend extra time at Norwich to replace overnight power loss, not about how he had to be towed back to a charge station.


The article was about the super charging system along the east coast and how it was supposed to allow a Tesla S to go on road trip just like you would with a gas powered car.

The supercharging stations did not do this. They caused him to run out of power because they were not close enough together (Something Elon Himself believes) and because the batteries are clearly severely discharged by cold weather.

/Teslas seem to run into a lot of "software glitches" that "cause lost battery capacity"
 
2013-02-14 03:09:36 PM

fluffy2097: MadCat: No, they both say he had 185 miles at Milford Supercharge #1. He had 35 miles when he left Norwich.

/Perhaps you should lay off the insults a bit?

So you think its fine that he went from 90 miles to 25 overnight and was FORCED to stop at Norwich to limp to the superchargers that he was supposed to be testing? That's not a problem with the car at all could it be?


Then he should have just wrote that and been done with it. as it is, it's pretty deliberately driving the car to fail to leave without enough power to make your next stop. He could have charged it for a bit longer there, or a bit longer at the previous super-charger, or stopped off at another charger further along... But he didn't. He drove it until it died, to get a picture of it getting towed. His article was definitely lying in places, but if he stuck to the truth, and just griped at having to wait half an hour because the weather sapped his charge, he would have been fine.
 
2013-02-14 03:10:56 PM

Erik_Emune: ChuckNorrisSays: Jeremy Clarkson is an assbag.

He punched Piers Morgan in the face. I really don't care whatever he says or does after that, he's elevated to sainthood. As it happens, however, he has continued to annoy all the right people.


this ^
 
2013-02-14 03:11:37 PM

fluffy2097: MrSteve007: Yep, that's what he said - but not what he did.

You need new glasses. The logs and he both say he had 185 miles at Norwich


MadCat: No, they both say he had 185 miles at Milford Supercharge #1. He had 35 miles when he left Norwich.

/Perhaps you should lay off the insults a bit?


When I said he only needed to go 45 miles, I'm referring to this part in his article:

"I drove, slowly, to Stonington, Conn., for dinner and spent the night in Groton, a total distance of 79 miles. When I parked the car, its computer said I had 90 miles of range, twice the 46 miles back to Milford. It was a different story at 8:30 the next morning."

The reporter only had to drive 46 miles to get to the Millford supercharger when he woke up, which could have topped off his battery in less than an hour and given him some 280 miles of range. We can see that he had about 35% of the battery life when he got into the car at 400 miles into his trip. With a car equipped with an 85 kWh battery, leaving 5 kWh as reserve, he would have had 24 kWh of usable power in the car (the same capacity as a Nissan Leaf, which will travel 65 miles in those cold conditions). Instead, he sat in the car, running the heat for at least 30 minutes, and then drove to a much slower level II station - where he only briefly charged.
 
2013-02-14 03:13:26 PM

fluffy2097: What asshole drives around in a parking lot with an area of 3.5 miles for 5 whole minutes and goes 0.6 whole miles to find a spot?


How many parking lots with 100 spaces have an area of 3.5 miles?
 
2013-02-14 03:14:46 PM

fluffy2097: MadCat: Oh I fully agree it's a problem. The reporter should have reported on THAT problem. Instead he failed to take steps to replace the lost range and failed to disclose or acknowledge that he caused the car to run out of power. The article should have been about how he had to spend extra time at Norwich to replace overnight power loss, not about how he had to be towed back to a charge station.

The article was about the super charging system along the east coast and how it was supposed to allow a Tesla S to go on road trip just like you would with a gas powered car.

The supercharging stations did not do this. They caused him to run out of power because they were not close enough together (Something Elon Himself believes) and because the batteries are clearly severely discharged by cold weather.

/Teslas seem to run into a lot of "software glitches" that "cause lost battery capacity"


No, the super-chargers didn't cause him to run out of power, he caused himself to run out of power, quite deliberately. Complain about the technology if you like, and it is a new technology so it's far from perfect, but the reporter still lied.
 
2013-02-14 03:14:46 PM

maddermaxx: He could have charged it for a bit longer there, or a bit longer at the previous super-charger,


He had enough range to make it to the next one when he left the first. Not all people brim their tank whenever they go anywhere, and Tesla also says you shouldn't actually fully charge the battery anyway, because it reduces its lifespan.

maddermaxx: or stopped off at another charger further along... But he didn't.


Because he was testing the supercharging system, not the Tesla S.

But please, lets ignore what the author says he was reviewing.
 
2013-02-14 03:16:29 PM
1998 saturn sl.  218k miles.  40mpg highway (still).  take all the money i'm not spending on a new car and i'd rather have it than an electric.  drove 4 hours from atl to tuscaloosa and have 1/2 tank left (10 gal tank).
 
2013-02-14 03:16:48 PM
fluffy2097:
The article was about the super charging system along the east coast and how it was supposed to allow a Tesla S to go on road trip just like you would with a gas powered car.

I see, so if someone stole your gasoline out of your car overnight you wouldn't have had to go spend time at a gas station to replace it?

Yes there may be a problem with the batteries in cold weather. Report on that. Report you lost charge overnight. It's the truth, it's factual and it's what reporters are supposed to do.

Do NOT try to make the story more sensational by deliberately running the car out of power. Your job is to report the news, not create it. That just shows bad journalistic integrity and misinforms your readers. Reporters have been canned for less in the past.
 
2013-02-14 03:17:07 PM

orbister: themanuf: GPS will give you a location at any given moment.  You would have to be polling gps data at an insane rate and with very high accuracy to generate that chart.  Also, you would need to account for the time domain if you are going to calculate speed based on location/time data.  Correcting for the moments when the car wasn't moving would be difficult and annoying.

GPS also gives you speed information based on Doppler shift measurements of the signals received. No GPS sets do distance/time for speed. Apologies if you knew this.


Ah, that makes sense.  Didn't think about that, thank you.

I retract my previous statements.  It may in fact be based on gps data while he was looking at the speedometer which may have an offset from actual speed.
 
2013-02-14 03:17:26 PM

ringersol: Atreyou40: " I'm no physicist, "

That's an understatement.
Yes, I know what regenerative braking is.  You, unfortunately, do not.  You may think you do, but you don't.
The energy reclaimed from a stop is never, ever greater than the energy taken to move the car to get to that point.


Good.  Then explain *the point* to me. I'm all ears. If there's no efficiency to be gained then why bother trying to recapture the kinetic energy of the car? I never said it was going to "be greater".  As long as it replaces some of the energy it takes then there is an efficiency gain. Seems to me the suggestion of the help desk person was trying to leverage that... she never suggested "drive slow, and drag the brake to recharge the batteries" which is how you're framing her comment.

So yes - tell me there's no efficiency to be gained from stop and go driving with electrics... like it's a loony idea... go on..
 
2013-02-14 03:17:57 PM

fluffy2097: He had enough range to make it to the next one when he left the first.


I wonder what the range meter said 5 minutes after he left the supercharging station and decided to go blasting down the freeway at 83mph with the heater on full blast.
 
2013-02-14 03:18:45 PM

cmunic8r99: fluffy2097: What asshole drives around in a parking lot with an area of 3.5 miles for 5 whole minutes and goes 0.6 whole miles to find a spot?

How many parking lots with 100 spaces have an area of 3.5 miles?


img.gawkerassets.com

Only most east coast highway service stations with actual services. Here's proof it could easily have been 0.4 miles to find a charger.
 
2013-02-14 03:20:29 PM

DaAlien: Because gas powered cars don't recover energy by regenerative braking?


What do gas powered cars have to do with EPA-MPG-comparable ratings on hybrid and electric vehicles?
 
2013-02-14 03:22:16 PM

MrSteve007: fluffy2097: He had enough range to make it to the next one when he left the first.

I wonder what the range meter said 5 minutes after he left the supercharging station and decided to go blasting down the freeway at 83mph with the heater on full blast.


Straw man, He pulled in for the night with enough range to reach the next station, and left in the morning without enough charge to get there.
 
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