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(The New York Times)   NYT journalist gives his side of the Tesla S story. Jeremy Clarkson smiling, stroking cat   (wheels.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 239
    More: Followup, NYT, Model S, detour, New Jersey Turnpike, cats, journalists, Lincoln Tunnel, Elon Musk  
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15386 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2013 at 12:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-14 11:19:41 AM  
I'm confused. He thinks stop and go will actually use less power than simply cruising at speed? Even with battery regeneration from braking, did he think that he's not expending more power having to accelerate a car from zero to whatever than he will get back through regeneration?
 
2013-02-14 11:27:38 AM  
Also, I think the most damning thing about this test drive comes from Musk's blog:

"When he first reached our Milford, Connecticut Supercharger, having driven the car hard and after taking an unplanned detour through downtown Manhattan to give his brother a ride, the display said "0 miles remaining." Instead of plugging in the car, he drove in circles for over half a mile in a tiny, 100-space parking lot. When the Model S valiantly refused to die, he eventually plugged it in."
 
2013-02-14 11:34:39 AM  
This asshole should be fired.
 
2013-02-14 11:55:04 AM  
The problem with all of this is that apparently Broder didn't do the necessary homework before testing out the car in the first place, at least according to the folks over at Torque News:

Any halfway experienced electric car driver can spot several mistakes that Broder made, and we don't need the blog post promised by Elon Musk to diagnose the missteps along the way.  We're relying on a blog post by a fellow, Peter, who has taken long distance trips with his Model S, and wrote an open letter to John Broder pointing out his mistakes. Most of what Peter wrote is conventional wisdom for EV owners, some of it is specific to the Model S.The critical failures were not grabbing full recharges at the Supercharger stations, and then not grabbing a trickle charge during his overnight stay. The trip would have been a success had he done either or both.

Source:http://www.torquenews.com/1075/ny-times-writer-broder-makes-e v-rookie- mistakes-failed-model-s-road-trip
 
2013-02-14 12:19:15 PM  
Both have obvious reasons to lie. Screw it, I'm going to watch Harlem Shake videos.
 
2013-02-14 12:47:30 PM  
I support alternative fuel sources because I still want to hear the scream of a v12 or the burble of a supercharged v8 in 2070.
 
2013-02-14 12:51:23 PM  
''didn't do the necessary homework before testing out the car''

I'm shocked I tell you, shocked

/not really...
 
2013-02-14 12:51:24 PM  
Charge this.
 
2013-02-14 12:54:11 PM  
I can say from a great deal of personal experience that the NY Times is full of shiat and has absolutely no interest in publishing the truth.
 
2013-02-14 12:54:12 PM  
Jeremy Clarkson is an assbag.
 
2013-02-14 12:54:16 PM  
He obviously left the dome light on overnight.
 
2013-02-14 12:55:56 PM  

RexTalionis: Also, I think the most damning thing about this test drive comes from Musk's blog:

"When he first reached our Milford, Connecticut Supercharger, having driven the car hard and after taking an unplanned detour through downtown Manhattan to give his brother a ride, the display said "0 miles remaining." Instead of plugging in the car, he drove in circles for over half a mile in a tiny, 100-space parking lot. When the Model S valiantly refused to die, he eventually plugged it in."


I kind of figured that was just circling to get a spot - as most folks that live in big cities have to do.  The spots are always all full, and you gotta circle (with a bunch of other vultures) to get a spot when one opens.

It ain't like a mall in Nebraska where the parking lots are mostly empty all the time.

And I'm sure there were only 2 spots with chargers, that people with non-electric cars had taken.
 
2013-02-14 12:56:00 PM  

RexTalionis: I'm confused. He thinks stop and go will actually use less power than simply cruising at speed? Even with battery regeneration from braking, did he think that he's not expending more power having to accelerate a car from zero to whatever than he will get back through regeneration?


I rather doubt he personally thought that, but if that's the advice Tesla reps are giving to customers then it's correct he should follow that advice -- because that's what Tesla's real customers would mostly do.
 
2013-02-14 12:56:31 PM  
RexTalionis: "I think the most damning thing about this test drive comes from Musk's blog: "

The blog post is full of "wtf" data.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive

Musk clearly sounds like he has the right of it: this guy had an preconceived conclusion and set out to create some evidence to justify it.
 
2013-02-14 12:56:47 PM  
 
2013-02-14 01:00:03 PM  

RexTalionis: Also, I think the most damning thing about this test drive comes from Musk's blog:

"When he first reached our Milford, Connecticut Supercharger, having driven the car hard and after taking an unplanned detour through downtown Manhattan to give his brother a ride, the display said "0 miles remaining." Instead of plugging in the car, he drove in circles for over half a mile in a tiny, 100-space parking lot. When the Model S valiantly refused to die, he eventually plugged it in."


Jalopnik actually had some coverage on this - depending on the path taken, that gas station was big enough that driving around it once looking for the electric charger could be about half a mile.  http://jalopnik.com/tesla-claims-model-s-driving-logs-show-nyt-report e r-wor-192254006

To me, the whole thing seems pointless.  I mean seriously, it's an electric car that can go 300 miles on a charge, which is what a normal car does on about one tank of gas.  How many trips do you take that require more than one tank of gas?  Either you want one or you don't, but trying to split hairs about cross country performance or some crap is just silly.
 
2013-02-14 01:01:14 PM  
gweilo8888: " if that's the advice Tesla reps are giving to customers  "

But does that sound remotely plausible?  A maker of electric cars saying "Adding stop-and-go traffic to your trip will *improve* your total range"?
The only person claiming they got that advice is the author whose story was just gutted by the actual trip data.
Are we really supposed to take him at his word on this?
 
2013-02-14 01:03:18 PM  

noitsnot: I kind of figured that was just circling to get a spot - as most folks that live in big cities have to do.  The spots are always all full, and you gotta circle (with a bunch of other vultures) to get a spot when one opens.

It ain't like a mall in Nebraska where the parking lots are mostly empty all the time.

And I'm sure there were only 2 spots with chargers, that people with non-electric cars had taken.


This. Take a look at Google maps and you will see that half a mile is precisely 3.5 times around the perimeter of the car park. That's not unrealistic for somebody who's looking for a parking space, and endeavoring not to block other vehicles while they do so.

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.24586,-73.009073&z=17

Frankly, the language in Musk's blog post makes me doubt his claims far more strongly than I doubt the journo's claims. Especially given that, per Musk's own admission, NYT has given very fair reviews to the vehicle in the past.
 
2013-02-14 01:03:45 PM  
The logs that Tesla released directly contradict statements made by the reporter. Cue NYT Reporter accusing Tesla of falsifying data...
 
2013-02-14 01:04:53 PM  

RexTalionis: I'm confused. He thinks stop and go will actually use less power than simply cruising at speed? Even with battery regeneration from braking, did he think that he's not expending more power having to accelerate a car from zero to whatever than he will get back through regeneration?


In this house we respect the laws of thermodynamics!

i188.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-14 01:06:27 PM  
Follow the money trail.  Which big oil company is adding to the reviewer's income?
 
2013-02-14 01:06:49 PM  

ringersol: But does that sound remotely plausible?  A maker of electric cars saying "Adding stop-and-go traffic to your trip will *improve* your total range"?
The only person claiming they got that advice is the author whose story was just gutted by the actual trip data.
Are we really supposed to take him at his word on this?


Frankly, yes, it does. When was the last time you spoke to a call center and got a *knowledgeable* employee? And when was the last time the call center staff member had a salary that would let them drive a US$100,000 car, to give them any personal experience to counter their lousy intuition and guesswork as to how the product operates?

So yes, it sounds more than plausible. Most likely the support droid was asked a question that wasn't covered by the handbook that is the only "knowledge" they have of a vehicle they've probably never even seen in person, or they simply forgot the handbook answer, and either way incorrect info was fed out.
 
2013-02-14 01:08:10 PM  

ChuckNorrisSays: Jeremy Clarkson is an assbag.


Possibly, but he did punch Piers Morgan in the face, so he does have that going for him.
 
2013-02-14 01:09:09 PM  

MadCat: The logs that Tesla released directly contradict statements made by the reporter. Cue NYT Reporter accusing Tesla of falsifying data...


Does it? Because frankly, I see periods of speeds not terribly dissimilar to what the journo claimed. In fact, similar and consistent enough that if anything, I'd guess the speedo is off on the car, and the journo was exceeding the speed he believed himself to be driving due to a hopelessly inaccurate speedo. (In other words, a speedo like pretty much every car I've ever driven -- few have ever come within 5mph of accurate while driving at 55mph for me, showing readings anywhere from sub-50 to over-60.
 
2013-02-14 01:11:29 PM  
Unless the Tesla logs are falsified, this reporter will be posting his resume in a New York Minute.

Based on contradiction of direct statements in his article I'm going to say he started with a premise; The EV would under-perform and made sure that conditions of the test ensured it failed. No different than some bozo who decides to drive an additional 50 miles after the gas warning light has come on in a standard vehicle.
 
2013-02-14 01:11:40 PM  

MadCat: The logs that Tesla released directly contradict statements made by the reporter.


Is there any doubt that they would? Still doesn't prove who's lying here.
 
2013-02-14 01:12:46 PM  
Popcorn Johnny: " I'm going to watch Harlem Shake videos. "

So, yeah.
I thought "that sounds interesting. is that like twerk? I like twerk videos."
And then I youtube'd and ... i don't... with the ... the fark did I just watch?
 
2013-02-14 01:13:38 PM  

lilbjorn: Follow the money trail.  Which big oil company is adding to the reviewer's income?


Probably one that's part of the same energy conglomerate that makes all the plastics in the Tesla, and profits from power generation for the public grid too.
 
2013-02-14 01:13:54 PM  

RexTalionis: I'm confused. He thinks stop and go will actually use less power than simply cruising at speed? Even with battery regeneration from braking, did he think that he's not expending more power having to accelerate a car from zero to whatever than he will get back through regeneration?


Journalists are not renowned for their knowledge of fields other than journalism.
 
2013-02-14 01:14:59 PM  
Just so we're clear, this is the same newspaper that had an Editor-in-Chief ask their readers if they should do investigative reporting or not.

At first I thought they were trying to get into the "opinion" business.  Turns out, they just don't know how investigative journalism works.
 
2013-02-14 01:15:56 PM  
www.teslamotors.com
 
2013-02-14 01:17:22 PM  
MOM, he broke the vase!

No i didn't, he did!

No, it wasn't me, it was him!

Nuh-uh, he did it!


I'm just sitting here watching the kids argue...
 
2013-02-14 01:17:47 PM  

RexTalionis: I'm confused. He thinks stop and go will actually use less power than simply cruising at speed? Even with battery regeneration from braking, did he think that he's not expending more power having to accelerate a car from zero to whatever than he will get back through regeneration?


Slow speed driving uses less energy than high speed driving. Even with stop-and-go, I'd expect two miles in city traffic to use less energy than two miles at motorway speeds.
 
2013-02-14 01:19:12 PM  

orbister: RexTalionis: I'm confused. He thinks stop and go will actually use less power than simply cruising at speed? Even with battery regeneration from braking, did he think that he's not expending more power having to accelerate a car from zero to whatever than he will get back through regeneration?

Slow speed driving uses less energy than high speed driving. Even with stop-and-go, I'd expect two miles in city traffic to use less energy than two miles at motorway speeds.


You know why your car's "city" mpg rating is almost always lower than your "highway" rating?
 
2013-02-14 01:19:23 PM  
Most Americans won't change their driving habits or maximize the potential of the technology just because they have a car that runs on some other power source. He could have acknowledged that he was playing the part of the average crappy driver, not paying attention and not doing the necessary research -- because no one does that anyway -- or even admit that he was trying to sabotage the car to see what would happen. And this is how he outed himself as a terrible journalist, because his article didn't use the creative non-fiction techniques that would have made it the true hit piece he so desperately wanted it to be.
 
2013-02-14 01:19:42 PM  

RexTalionis: I'm confused. He thinks stop and go will actually use less power than simply cruising at speed? Even with battery regeneration from braking, did he think that he's not expending more power having to accelerate a car from zero to whatever than he will get back through regeneration?


He was all like "fark Issac Newton" and shiat.
 
2013-02-14 01:21:28 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: MadCat: The logs that Tesla released directly contradict statements made by the reporter.

Is there any doubt that they would? Still doesn't prove who's lying here.


Hard raw data, un-manipulated, shows the reporter statement is false...that does prove who made the lying statement.  You seem to be implying because Tesla produced the logs they're obviously covering the whole thing up or making up data because it shows the Reporter fibbed on many accounts.
 
2013-02-14 01:21:51 PM  
orbister: "Even with stop-and-go, I'd expect two miles in city traffic to use less energy than two miles at motorway speeds."

You might be surprised by reality then.  There's an advantage to slow speed, but stop-and-go kinda ruins it and the highway penalty only kicks in when you're traveling at speeds the author claimed he only 'very briefly' achieved.

Further, even if you expected that 2 miles in the city would be better than 2 miles on the highway, surely you'd recognize that trip_distance + 2 miles is going to require more energy than trip_distance, regardless of how efficient the vehicle is during those extra 2 miles.
 
2013-02-14 01:22:30 PM  

RexTalionis: orbister: RexTalionis: I'm confused. He thinks stop and go will actually use less power than simply cruising at speed? Even with battery regeneration from braking, did he think that he's not expending more power having to accelerate a car from zero to whatever than he will get back through regeneration?

Slow speed driving uses less energy than high speed driving. Even with stop-and-go, I'd expect two miles in city traffic to use less energy than two miles at motorway speeds.

You know why your car's "city" mpg rating is almost always lower than your "highway" rating?


Because Obama?
 
2013-02-14 01:22:47 PM  

Man On A Mission: The problem with all of this is that apparently Broder didn't do the necessary homework before testing out the car in the first place, at least according to the folks over at Torque News:

Any halfway experienced electric car driver can spot several mistakes that Broder made, and we don't need the blog post promised by Elon Musk to diagnose the missteps along the way.  We're relying on a blog post by a fellow, Peter, who has taken long distance trips with his Model S, and wrote an open letter to John Broder pointing out his mistakes. Most of what Peter wrote is conventional wisdom for EV owners, some of it is specific to the Model S.The critical failures were not grabbing full recharges at the Supercharger stations, and then not grabbing a trickle charge during his overnight stay. The trip would have been a success had he done either or both.

Source:http://www.torquenews.com/1075/ny-times-writer-broder-makes-e v-rookie- mistakes-failed-model-s-road-trip


but. that wasn't the point of the trip, he was specifically invited to test Tesla's net work of "gas stations" no tthe car itself, and frankly, his is more realistic test unless we think these cars should only be driven by people with EE degrees.  Your car can go for about 20-30 mils after the gauge reaches E for a reason
 
2013-02-14 01:23:12 PM  
The NYT used to be a great newspaper, but lately it seems that every section has its own political agenda. Pathetic. I should say that every new tech has issues that get worked out. I seem to recall the NYT laying into the Honda FCX Clarity due to using Hydrogen fuel cells, and it being difficult to fill on the east coast, thereby making the handling and ride bad.

They also called the Alero a good used car buy a few years back. I own an Alero, and I'm sure it was invented and built by Satan.

At this point, if the NYT likes a car, I avoid it. And vice versa.
 
2013-02-14 01:23:52 PM  
Jeremy Clarkson is probably my favorite reality show person and I love everything he says and does on Top Gear.  Last time I bought a car I treated each test drive as if I were Jeremy Clarkson doing something on Top Gear.  There are many used car salesmen who hate me.
 
2013-02-14 01:25:00 PM  

kalor: Hard raw data, un-manipulated, shows the reporter statement is false...that does prove who made the lying statement.


So tell me, how do you know it's un-manipulated?
 
2013-02-14 01:25:45 PM  

kalor: Hard raw data, un-manipulated,



A screenshot of a graph made by open office said...
 
2013-02-14 01:25:47 PM  
Tesla is my personal "boner " car.... If I had a dick, it would give me a boner. douchey Mc doucherton journalist hath ulterior motives, me thinks.
 
2013-02-14 01:27:18 PM  
I skimmed through this thread but it appears no one has pointed out that this is Broder's response from two days ago, before the data was released.
 
2013-02-14 01:28:16 PM  
Magorn: " his is more realistic test  "

Yeah, people take road trips all the time where they don't top off their fuel tank.
I know the last time I took a road trip and coasted into the first gas station on fumes, I made sure I only got three-quarters of a tank before I started the next, longer, leg of my drive.
And when the car says I only have enough fuel to make it half-way to my destination, I go ahead and stop fueling and try to make it anyway.
And when the car is repeatedly warning me we're out of fuel, I routinely roll past fueling stations.

Because, ya know, that's just how "real people" drive.
Maybe engineers do better, but we can't all have fancy educations.
 
2013-02-14 01:28:19 PM  

RexTalionis: orbister: RexTalionis: I'm confused. He thinks stop and go will actually use less power than simply cruising at speed? Even with battery regeneration from braking, did he think that he's not expending more power having to accelerate a car from zero to whatever than he will get back through regeneration?

Slow speed driving uses less energy than high speed driving. Even with stop-and-go, I'd expect two miles in city traffic to use less energy than two miles at motorway speeds.

You know why your car's "city" mpg rating is almost always lower than your "highway" rating?


Because gas powered cars don't recover energy by regenerative braking? Unlike electric cars like, say, the Tesla S?
 
2013-02-14 01:30:08 PM  

MadCat: The logs that Tesla released directly contradict statements made by the reporter. Cue NYT Reporter accusing Tesla of falsifying data...


Yeah, the logs pretty much sides with Tesla.
 
2013-02-14 01:32:42 PM  

ringersol: Because, ya know, that's just how "real people" drive.


It is.

horrifically enough, that's exactly how lots of people drive.
 
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