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(AZ Family)   Arizona court rules that you can be busted for DUI if you're caught driving with marijuana in your system even if the last time you smoked was two weeks ago. Yea, freedom   (azfamily.com) divider line 132
    More: Asinine, Arizona's DUI, Arizona Supreme Court, regulations, marijuana  
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5543 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2013 at 8:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-14 10:54:54 AM

Pete_T_Mann: ristst: Wanna hear something SCARY?

Got a friend who was an instructor for a CDL program (semi truck driving school). She said you'd get busted for having THC in your system a month after the fact. But alcohol?

You can be drop-dead stoned drunk....you can be .30.....

Two hours (yes, 2hrs) after your blood alcohol level reaches .08 you can legally get behind the wheel of a semi.

Nice, huh?

I'd take that over a BS DUI law that can lock you up for something that you did over a month ago.

-------------------

But that's all this is, another BS DUI law so the state can wrench more money out of people. And since everyone seems to love the draconian DUI laws now, I'm not really surprised at it. Its for your safety!


GDISM, this is not a DUI law.
This is a last ditch effort to retain criminalization and PROFITIZATION of a safe and useful chemical family.
Bastards.
 
2013-02-14 10:56:18 AM

Bullseyed: Nickninja: So does this mean that they will revoke the licenses of everyone who is prescribed marijuana? Technically, it is now illegal for them to drive if they follow their doctors advice.

If you're in such bad shape that you need to smoke up to stop the pain you shouldn't be driving at all anyway.


One of these days, you might learn to think, then you will be all, WOW!
/maybe not
 
2013-02-14 11:04:38 AM
So let's see, we have judges with no medical training, licensing, or degree, making medical decisions.

Arrest the entire bunch for medical fraud and criminal negligence in the practice thereof.
 
2013-02-14 11:35:00 AM
yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea
 
2013-02-14 11:39:40 AM
This is like being arrested for a wicked hangover 32 hours after you've had a drink.
 
2013-02-14 11:42:34 AM

CheekyMonkey: Dancin_In_Anson: xanadian: d9-THC stays in your system a lot longer than alcohol, due to its lipophilic nature.

That is going to be a big issue with legalization. I'm admittedly not up to speed on how levels of the substance are measured and how that can affect investigations into workplace accidents or impaired driving incidents.

Anyone?

/in favor of legalization

As I understand it, the piss test that is currently used by companies who drug-test their employees, detects THC metabolites, which can continue to be excreted from the body weeks after someone has used MJ, due to the fat-solubility of THC.  I've heard that there is also a blood test for THC which indicates that MJ has been used recently (within the last 24 hours?).  Don't have any more specifics for you.


Urine test. Higher thresholds.

I believe current send out urine drug screens come back positive at roughly 30-50 parts per billion. So you just have a THC focused test, with colors indicating concentration. Above a certain concentration = probable cause for DUI. Pretty much the same as alcohol. You can pee on it, or decline it, then be arrested and be forced to do a blood test at the jail.
 
2013-02-14 11:50:39 AM

justtray: CheekyMonkey: Dancin_In_Anson: xanadian: d9-THC stays in your system a lot longer than alcohol, due to its lipophilic nature.

That is going to be a big issue with legalization. I'm admittedly not up to speed on how levels of the substance are measured and how that can affect investigations into workplace accidents or impaired driving incidents.

Anyone?

/in favor of legalization

As I understand it, the piss test that is currently used by companies who drug-test their employees, detects THC metabolites, which can continue to be excreted from the body weeks after someone has used MJ, due to the fat-solubility of THC.  I've heard that there is also a blood test for THC which indicates that MJ has been used recently (within the last 24 hours?).  Don't have any more specifics for you.

Urine test. Higher thresholds.

I believe current send out urine drug screens come back positive at roughly 30-50 parts per billion. So you just have a THC focused test, with colors indicating concentration. Above a certain concentration = probable cause for DUI. Pretty much the same as alcohol. You can pee on it, or decline it, then be arrested and be forced to do a blood test at the jail.


What about the inconvienent truth that serum/urine levels do not correlate with any sort of measurable "impairment"?
I mean, it is the "impairment" we are supposedly worried about, eh?
And not just the blind and stupid gut belief that we are dealing with Devil Weed.

when you believe in things you don't understand
then you suffer


human belief is a wacky, dangerous thing, those that can induce it are a special sort of problem
 
2013-02-14 11:55:16 AM
There is a ton of butthurt demonstrated by those inexperienced fools that believe someone else might get some enjoyment that they o so nobly deny thenselves.
So cute, if it were not causing a freakin' war.
Misinformed fools shilling for the Man are never going to give up their precious paradigms without a good solid dose of 2x4 applied directly to the forehead.
 
2013-02-14 12:02:08 PM

snocone: You do know that you have paid for THREE, count 'em 3, federal scientific studies of the intoxicating and impairing effects of marijuana over the past 50 years. All recommended decriminalization and were, of course, ignored, discarded and villified after the fact.
The results indicate a failure of the concept of "impairment" comparing alcohol and marijuana.
The chemicals are not the same, don't work anythink alike. The effects cannot be compared.
Alcohol is a Central Nervous System Depressant, pot is not.
Alcohol is a neurotoxin, pot is not.
Alcohol has a lethal dose, easily attained, pot does not.
And so on,,,

After paying $millions, your nannys have chosen to ignor, refute and bury the science.

The current situation is based on lies and will eventually bite the liers' ass.
And I emphasize, LIES, not misconception, not misunderstanding, LIES!
The best you can do now is make sure history is not rewritten as the truth finally comes out, inch by painful inch.


But pot will make teh white wimmin susceptible to teh jazz man's penis, so much worse than alcohol...
 
2013-02-14 12:26:33 PM

Lucidz: Despite mentioning medical marijuana multiple times in the article, it doesn't say if the defendant actually HAD a card. Hence, he was driving with an illicit substance in his system.  DUI was probably just the fastest, easiest charge.

The guy still broke the law. What's to understand?


Yes, he broke the law. So maybe he should be charged with the law that he broke. Having a trace amount of a substance in your system does not necessarily mean that you are under it's influence. If we open that door, then it's a slippery slope to the bottom my friend. You'll be the first one crying about the outrage if you're pulled over one day and charged with a DUI because you have acetaminophen or oxycodone  in your system from the Percocet you took for back pain a few days ago.
 
2013-02-14 12:30:32 PM

Ninetynine: Lucidz: Despite mentioning medical marijuana multiple times in the article, it doesn't say if the defendant actually HAD a card. Hence, he was driving with an illicit substance in his system.  DUI was probably just the fastest, easiest charge.

The guy still broke the law. What's to understand?

Yes, he broke the law. So maybe he should be charged with the law that he broke. Having a trace amount of a substance in your system does not necessarily mean that you are under it's influence. If we open that door, then it's a slippery slope to the bottom my friend. You'll be the first one crying about the outrage if you're pulled over one day and charged with a DUI because you have acetaminophen or oxycodone  in your system from the Percocet you took for back pain a few days ago.


NEVER eat another poppyseed muffin!
I am warning you.
 
2013-02-14 12:53:04 PM
I'm shocked that something so profoundly unconstitutional could be considered the law in Maricopa County. SHOCKED.
 
2013-02-14 12:53:36 PM
Seems reasonable...  http://www.foxnews.com/health/2010/10/19/foods-failed-drug-tests/

Please excuse me while I start to question the leadership that would have me imprisoned on an allegation I may used drugs or ate food.
 
2013-02-14 12:55:34 PM

SamuraiDaNinja: A MJ dui ruined my life. I went through some serious shiat growing up, I had ptsd because of it. I used to want to die, I had it all planned out at 17, fortunately for me trains don't really move on holidays. I really really suck at suicide I had a concussion from falling off my bike subsequently bbroke my phone it was 3:43 in the a.m. I tried looking for help but no one was around as i was walking I ran into a semi truck with the doors and hood opened up running. I figured if I waited long enough I could get help or a phone. I crawled up into the truck and cranked the heat up . I waited long enough and the operator came back I asked him to call 911 and the cops came, they refused me a doctor, insisted despite the fact that I blew .00 that I had to be drunk. After 5 hours of Hell the EMTs came by I had a heart rate of 127, a concussion, broken teeth from the cops, they were Mexican cops that hate white people if you're curious why this happened. They only took me to the hospital to give me A catheder(?) So they could charge me with some thing.


You're full of shiat. Mexican Cops don't have jurisdiction on US soil. Take your persecution, woe-is-me complex elsewhere.
 
2013-02-14 12:59:36 PM
Also, you can "Lieing on the Internet" to the ever growing list of things you suck at.
 
2013-02-14 01:31:29 PM

abfalter: Isn't this the same as alcohol?  Can't you get a DUI if you have an open bottle even if you didn't take a sip and have not had a drink?


No.  There are specific laws against having open containers of alcohol in a car while driving.
 
2013-02-14 01:33:55 PM

ZAZ: The question in this case was whether marijuana is legally considered to have exactly one metabolite. The answer is no.Here is the court decision: http://azcourts.gov/Portals/0/OpinionFiles/Div1/2013/1%20CA-SA%2012-0 2 11.pdf (PDF). What people are getting outraged over is settled law from the 1990s. The section of law charged in this case does not require proof of impairment or potential impairment.

Quoting from the court's discussion of precedent (citations omitted):¶13 On appeal, we rejected the defendant's equal protection argument. We reiterated the broad statement in Phillips that the "statute created a flat ban on driving with any proscribed substance in the body, whether capable of causing impairment or not." We also found other "cogent reasons" for broadly interpreting the ban on drug use while driving. For example, we noted metabolic rates differ from drug to drug and that the "presence of an illicit drug's metabolite [whether active or inactive] establishes the possibility of the presence of the active, impairing component of the drug." This fact, we concluded, "justifies the legislature banning entirely the right to drive when the metabolite is present."


So the law really means, "possibly driving under the influence."  Great.
 
2013-02-14 01:44:04 PM
zeg:

Do you have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the THC is in his system because he consumed it in the state of Arizona? Because, you know, unless you can prove that, he is not guilty of breaking any Arizona laws.

You deserve an entry in Guinness for being that wrong.
 
2013-02-14 01:47:20 PM

khyberkitsune: So let's see, we have judges with no medical training, licensing, or degree, making medical decisions.


Not at all.  Judges decide what the law says.  Legislators without training make the laws.
 
2013-02-14 01:48:55 PM

snocone: You do know that you have paid for THREE, count 'em 3, federal scientific studies of the intoxicating and impairing effects of marijuana over the past 50 years. All recommended decriminalization and were, of course, ignored, discarded and villified after the fact.
The results indicate a failure of the concept of "impairment" comparing alcohol and marijuana.
The chemicals are not the same, don't work anythink alike. The effects cannot be compared.
Alcohol is a Central Nervous System Depressant, pot is not.
Alcohol is a neurotoxin, pot is not.
Alcohol has a lethal dose, easily attained, pot does not.
And so on,,,

After paying $millions, your nannys have chosen to ignor, refute and bury the science.

The current situation is based on lies and will eventually bite the liers' ass.
And I emphasize, LIES, not misconception, not misunderstanding, LIES!
The best you can do now is make sure history is not rewritten as the truth finally comes out, inch by painful inch.


Wickedly This!  The Feds continue to Fark Americans for the benefit of the For-Profit Corrections "Industry"
 
2013-02-14 01:50:11 PM

mooseyfate: SamuraiDaNinja: A MJ dui ruined my life. I went through some serious shiat growing up, I had ptsd because of it. I used to want to die, I had it all planned out at 17, fortunately for me trains don't really move on holidays. I really really suck at suicide I had a concussion from falling off my bike subsequently bbroke my phone it was 3:43 in the a.m. I tried looking for help but no one was around as i was walking I ran into a semi truck with the doors and hood opened up running. I figured if I waited long enough I could get help or a phone. I crawled up into the truck and cranked the heat up . I waited long enough and the operator came back I asked him to call 911 and the cops came, they refused me a doctor, insisted despite the fact that I blew .00 that I had to be drunk. After 5 hours of Hell the EMTs came by I had a heart rate of 127, a concussion, broken teeth from the cops, they were Mexican cops that hate white people if you're curious why this happened. They only took me to the hospital to give me A catheder(?) So they could charge me with some thing.

You're full of shiat. Mexican Cops don't have jurisdiction on US soil. Take your persecution, woe-is-me complex elsewhere.


Mexicans can't be U. S.  cops?
 
2013-02-14 01:50:14 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Legislators without training make the laws.


Clearly, what we need are some experienced people from the medical field to come and help the legislators with the topics they don't understand, perhaps over a nice dinner or ten. Of course, legislators are busy people, so these experts might end up waiting in the office lobby for a bit...
 
2013-02-14 02:17:53 PM

CheekyMonkey: CutBoard: CheekyMonkey: CutBoard: abfalter: Isn't this the same as alcohol?  Can't you get a DUI if you have an open bottle even if you didn't take a sip and have not had a drink?

No, you can't, BAC, is extremely more precise than determining TCH levels in the human body. Alcohol is metabolized at a known rate, THC on the other hand is metabolized slowly and also depends on the individuals metabolic rate(given that Alcohol is subject to that also). I guess what I'm trying to say is that, BAC is readily and easily determined and you're only given a ticket for Transporting an Open Container, rather than DUI. With THC, it's not as clear cut and it's not right. Plain and simple, if you've

CheekyMonkey: Not trolling. Yes, I did miss what you put in parentheses. Skimmed your post, definitely my bad. However, BAC is BAC, and the factors you list don't have an effect on BAC, but rather rate of change of BAC (i.e. how quickly the alcohol is metabolized).

I also missed what you said about THC being metabolized more slowly than alcohol. This may be true (I don't know for sure) but not in the way that you think. Blood test for TCH is a pretty accurate indicator of current level of THC in the body, but the most common drug tests (piss test) does not measure THC, but rather it's metabolites, which have no incapacitating effect, but stay in the body for weeks, because they are fat-soluble.

Given that the country seems to be moving toward decriminalization or legalization, we need some standards for intoxication which, IMHO, should start with field sobriety tests. If a driver fails these, a breathalizer test for alcohol is given. If the driver passes this, blood is taken, screening for THC (not it's metabolites) and other intoxicants. None of this Arizona BS testing for non-impairing metabolites.


That's cool, BAC does work out to different things. Alchohol, which is not fat soluble, but actually removes fat, thus doesn't attribute to a prolonged BAC. THC does and can be tested for, not only in it's 28 days in the system, but if you do grow you hair out long enough it can be found, not only, days but, month and even years later, of course that is if you grow your hair out long enough. I agree about the metabolites, it's more social stigma rather than science, the metabolites can show up in a drug test for weeks (28 days or so). They do decrease with time, but, what they are talking about is charging you with a DUI, these metabolites stay in your system and are thus, being used against you for a false charge. This will (hopefully) be shown in the courts and dropped as they are a misconstrued standard.
 
2013-02-14 02:30:13 PM
Isn't this just a precedent case? Meaning, the judge(s) involved here pretty much just look back a prior decision and say "Yeah, that's pretty f*cked up but we're going to stick with it because reversing it could create chaos"?
 
zeg
2013-02-14 02:42:27 PM

incendi: zeg: Do you have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the THC is in his system because he consumed it in the state of Arizona? Because, you know, unless you can prove that, he is not guilty of breaking any Arizona laws.

Well, except for the bit where the Arizona DUI law may be so utterly farktarded that he did actually break it merely by having inactive metabolites of a drug forbidden in Arizona in his bloodstream, even if it was completely legal for him to consume it and he was in no way intoxicated at the time he was driving.


Excuse me. What I mean is aside from this contested interpretation of the law, there is no obvious evidence that any other Arizona laws were broken. I thought this would be obvious from the context, but at least two reasonable people and one troll (not you) didn't get that.

My point is that a) this interpretation of DUI is patently ridiculous, and b) other than that, this guy is not known to have committed any crimes/violations.
 
2013-02-14 03:46:38 PM
This is probably the most ridiculous ruling I have heard in a long time, and I try to keep up with them.

If everything in the article is true then the precedent is set for you to get a DUI for having a receipt for alcohol.

Hopefully the guy takes it all the way.
 
2013-02-14 05:14:58 PM

zeg: My point is that a) this interpretation of DUI is patently ridiculous, and b) other than that, this guy is not known to have committed any crimes/violations.


Yeah, disgusting, isn't it? Guess that's Arizona for ya, though.
 
2013-02-14 05:15:39 PM

mooseyfate: You're full of shiat. Mexican Cops don't have jurisdiction on US soil. Take your persecution, woe-is-me complex elsewhere.


Are you aware that there are people who call themselves Mexican but are actually US citizens? And that if a police officer is of Mexican descent, that doesn't affect his jurisdiction. You ARE aware of that, right? I mean, sure, the guy's story sounds like BS, but not because there were Mexican cops in the US. Where I live, at least half of the cops are Mexicans. But they're wearing Austin police uniforms and I bet if I told them to go back to Mexico where they have jurisdiction, I'd lose more than a few teeth. Just saying. Think a bit before you declare things.
 
2013-02-14 09:35:28 PM

untaken_name: mooseyfate: You're full of shiat. Mexican Cops don't have jurisdiction on US soil. Take your persecution, woe-is-me complex elsewhere.

Are you aware that there are people who call themselves Mexican but are actually US citizens? And that if a police officer is of Mexican descent, that doesn't affect his jurisdiction. You ARE aware of that, right? I mean, sure, the guy's story sounds like BS, but not because there were Mexican cops in the US. Where I live, at least half of the cops are Mexicans. But they're wearing Austin police uniforms and I bet if I told them to go back to Mexico where they have jurisdiction, I'd lose more than a few teeth. Just saying. Think a bit before you declare things.


I was calling him out on his bullshiat in a facetious manner.  If you thought I was being serious about that, you should recalibrate your sarcasm meter.  That being said, just because a dude is brown and his last name is Gonzales, doesn't mean he's Mexican.  It's not racist or anything, but it's just as much of an insult as calling an Australian a Brit or calling an American a Canadian.  People are often quite proud of where they're from, and if they speak Spanish, there's about 20 countries on this Earth that they could be from.  People just assume they're Mexican because Mexico is right there.  You'd be surprised how many people get called Mexicans that are from Argentina or pretty much anywhere BUT Mexico.  Just saying.  Think a bit before you declare half the Austin PD Mexicans.
 
2013-02-15 08:54:15 PM

THX 1138: xanadian: d9-THC stays in your system a lot longer than alcohol, due to its lipophilic nature.  TMYK.  ----====*

My understanding was that it isn't THC that's in one's system, but the end-product of metabolized THC.  The waste product after the drug has been processed by one's system.  It's not THC and can't get a person high as it's "already used up", but it does stay in the system because it's soluble in fat, as you indicated.

Bullshyte laws drawn up by people who have NO idea of how science or biology work.  Putting people in prison and ruining lives by arresting people who are NOT intoxicated.

/i'm not even a smoker


And the elite will always have a financial get out of jail free card.
 
2013-02-16 04:37:42 PM
Meanwhile, I am trying to work out whether my body and bank account could physically withstand the sheer amount of pot it would take to stand life in Arizona.
 
2013-02-17 04:38:37 AM

CapeFearCadaver: Reason #657 for never stepping foot in Arizona.


Go to Four Corners
Get baked in Colorado
Put one extremity in each of the four states.
What now, farkers?
 
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