staplermofo: Two air forcers who got the Bronze Star for something other than throwing grenades at Nazi bunkers got cyber bullied.Every now and then there are reminders that the military recruits from high schools.
me texan: fark that. It shouldn't even be an award. What's next, a medal for supply requisitions that aid combatants?
platedlizard: It's not like playing video games, 17% of all drone pilots suffer from clinical depression related to their job and 30% are burned out.. http://www.npr.org/2011/12/19/143926857/report-high-levels-of-burnout - in-u-s-drone-pilots
namatad: OMGseriouslybronze stars require you to be in a combat zoneWTF
PsiChick: A) Our troops do not need to be glorified.B) ...Goddamnit. This, this is why I do not trust the DOD with drones. They are a shiny new toy, and for all the public knows they could be glitching every ten minutes, but as long as the DOD has Shiny New Toy Syndrome we'll keep relying on it.
Popcorn Johnny: the ha ha guy: I only remember hearing of one guy surviving the blast. He was quick thinking enough to cover the grenade with his helmet and then his body.
Ficoce: Uisce Beatha: PanicMan: Medals get promotions. If you're doing a job that doesn't give out medals, you don't advance your career. If your career doesn't advance, you get pushed out.So give em damn medals.Give 'em medals, sure. But don't make their precedence higher than the medals given to the folks who are actually in harm's way.This is a tough judgement call. You need to promote and you have two guys; one has a Bronze w/V because he was hunkered down in a ditch one time and a bullet grazed his helmet, while the other guy sat back in a chair for six months, but was able to save hundreds of lives and was a solid producer. Without the points from the ribbons how do you justify promoting the armchair warrior? They might have learned a few lessons from the cold war on this one. There are many old guys out there that were true heroes, but will die unrecognized former E-4's.
Artisan Sandwich: The US does have a reputation for handing out chest candy and it sounds like it's deserved. Different mentality I suppose. If you look at British/Aussie/NZ/Canadian honors and awards, it is very reserved.
modesto: Again, this is not an either/or proposition. The people who perpetuate violence and the people who create the conditions for violence to thrive are both accountable
modesto: You really don't think the term "Coalition Provisional Authority" carried with it any responsibility to protect people?
modesto: There is actually a third option, aside from deciding on regime change across the world or supporting dictators, which is to mind our own farking business.
modesto: If we had shown, since WWII, that we are at all capable of affecting positive change in a place, then I would be in favor of the kind of humanitarian intervention that you seem to support. But we haven't , and we don't.
modesto: Oh and I know the American public just weeps daily for the people of Syria, Darfur (which is in Sudan, by the way), South Kordofan, and all the other places where people are getting killed but we have no strategic interest.
Dracolich: Medals, titles, honor, and other forms of empty accolades work well because they're cheap. Don't worry veterans, your medal is worth just as much as theirs. In the end, all of these things are just intended to be ways to confer social respect without others having to know anything personal. This means that people are intended to judge you in a positive way based on almost no information. There's a lot wrong with that thought process. It's the same one that brought us "Sandwich Artist" and "Senior Correspondent."
Dracolich: Summoner101: Dracolich: Medals, titles, honor, and other forms of empty accolades work well because they're cheap. Don't worry veterans, your medal is worth just as much as theirs. In the end, all of these things are just intended to be ways to confer social respect without others having to know anything personal. This means that people are intended to judge you in a positive way based on almost no information. There's a lot wrong with that thought process. It's the same one that brought us "Sandwich Artist" and "Senior Correspondent."Which is untrue. While in the military, medals, and titles when you go progress higher in rank, have a tangible impact when competing for promotion, special duties, and education opportunities. My background is USAF, so medals, at least those that count for points, are directly tied in to testing. Other decorations, such as humanitarian/volunteer, can still be competitive though will be better reflected in an EPR/OPR.It is disingenuous to say that awarding someone a medal that might not deserve one doesn't have any tangible impact beyond prestige.So it's assigned value by an internal arbitrary system. Yeah, that doesn't sound like bull shiat intended to replace actual reward. It's not like this isn't a well-studied HR trick. From an outside perspective it looks like people are doing astounding things for their country and we're rewarding them with as close to nothing as they'll accept.
modesto: However. When we rolled in and deposed the government there, odious as it was, we became responsible fot the outcome.
modesto: How many bombings of civilian targets were there in Afghanistan prior to the US invasion? I don't know the answer to that question, but I bet it is a lot fewer than the last 10 years.
modesto: And hey, if you don't like the example of America's longest war, remember Iraq? I know that's all ancient history now since we failed, the money stopped flowing, and so we cut and ran, but if you could ask the over 100,000 civillians killed in that debacle, I bet they wouldn't be as quick as you to relieve us of responsibility for the consequences of our actions
keithdcmoore: We say that people get a medal for what they did... But really, they get the medal for what we asked them to do...
keithdcmoore: the ha ha guy: keithdcmoore: We say that people get a medal for what they did... But really, they get the medal for what we asked them to do... In this case, kill people with a joystick and then go home and try to act normal with their family. Drone pilot stress is a kind of stress that hasn't made it into any shiatty indie films or documentaries yet...And we ask infantrymen to watch as the rest of their squad dies only inches away, while killing people face to face, then go home and then go home and try to act normal with their family. So why should they get a lesser medal than those who only risk getting mild carpal tunnel syndrome?I'm sorry- did I say those fine infantryman don't deserve respect? They do. Shower them with medals. It's also 2013 now and we have a sick bunch of dew drinking farks who have more kills than the Red Baron each week. Respect to the kids whose job is not mine.
Teknowaffle: EngineerAU: If you're bored, check out Wikipedia's list of military awards and decorations. You'll be surprised by some of the things they hand out medals for.
keithdcmoore: We say that people get a medal for what they did... But really, they get the medal for what we asked them to do... In this case, kill people with a joystick and then go home and try to act normal with their family. Drone pilot stress is a kind of stress that hasn't made it into any shiatty indie films or documentaries yet...
profplump: Summoner101: Do those that don't put their lives on the line deserve the same advantages as those that do? Does a guy sitting in a cargo container flying a remote controlled airplane deserve the same accolades as the crews flying in a combat zone daily or the soldier going outside the wire?Drones have their place in modern warfare and yes they do mitigate American casualties while accomplishing American objectives. There is an argument, however, that not facing the high costs of a manned flight makes us too willing to blow stuff up.Your first question presupposes that flying in a combat zone is necessarily more nobel or honorable than other missions. For any given mission that could be true, but assuming it is true for all missions seems a stretch. Is there some automatic criteria for this new medal that makes it more likely to be awarded to undeserving servicemen?As for the cost of war, I agree there's social value in having war be expensive. But literally the entire history of military technology is related to making war more costly for the enemy than it is for ourselves; if the use of drones is not as honorable as the use of traditional planes, why is the use of guns as honorable as the use of spears?
profplump: Summoner101: More and more though it's becoming it's own career path while trying to justify keeping the perks of regular aircrew members while not facing the drawbacks of being one.And it would really be terrible if less people were injured/killed/psychologically-affected. I mean, what's the point of war if we aren't keeping up on our share of the death and destruction?
staplermofo: me texan: fark that. It shouldn't even be an award. What's next, a medal for supply requisitions that aid combatants?They have those too. There were medals for going 3 years without a major screw up while in the reserves. A chest full of medals doesn't mean someone's a war hero. Didn't you watch any WW2 movies? Nobody is going to be confused about what this medal is for or what having it means. It's not taking anything away from anyone. It can't be much different from an officer who works in an office in peacetime outranking a guy who served 5 tours, lost 4 limbs and saved 500 lives. Everybody understands the difference. These people do some important things and their superiors ought to have a way to recognize them for it.
Lsherm: namatad: Lsherm: I don't think it should be above a Bronze Star, but I can see where being a drone pilot would require more than enough discipline and talent to be crucial to a military operation. Some medal is probably deserved.But yeah, not as much as one that requires your ass to be available as a target. Technically, though, they are handing out Bronze Stars to people who aren't in any real danger of being hit in the first place.this crap has been going on since vietnam.keep in mind that this new medal will rank above a bronze star, which is above a purple heart.Purple hearts require you to get injured.but this new award you get while sleeping at home at nights (or when off duty?)yah, farkEMCan they give you a Purple Heart for injury that isn't directly combat related? My dad has one from Vietnam, but if his story is correct, he was flying Mohawk during a "photograph" flight and they were hit by ground fire when flying low. He never got hit by a bullet or ordinance, but he was subsequently injured on the same flight when trying to land.Maybe he's embellished the story a bit for my mother to keep her from worrying, but the way he tells it he got to spend two months recovering from a broken ankle he probably gave himself while landing the plane. Says he got a week in Germany out of it (my mother confirms this - they were there together), but they sent him back.
Lsherm: I don't think it should be above a Bronze Star, but I can see where being a drone pilot would require more than enough discipline and talent to be crucial to a military operation. Some medal is probably deserved.But yeah, not as much as one that requires your ass to be available as a target. Technically, though, they are handing out Bronze Stars to people who aren't in any real danger of being hit in the first place.
staplermofo: Every now and then there are reminders that the military recruits from high schools.
thermo: I just had a mental picture of a Top Gun remake..... "Top Drone"Can those of you with Shop Kung Fu please complete my vision?
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