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(Marine Corps Times)   In a move that will in no way annoy combat veterans, the DOD has announced a new medal for drone pilots, and it ranks above the Bronze Star with V device. Because having to sip warm Mountain Dew 10000 miles from the front lines deserves a medal too   (marinecorpstimes.com) divider line 199
    More: Asinine, Bronze Star, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, Distinguished Flying Cross, combat operations, unmanned aircraft, Doug Sterner  
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4789 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2013 at 3:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-14 09:23:59 AM
liam76:
I know you certainly don;t weep for them as you say we have no business being there.

Actually, you don't know shiat about me, dog. I spend all day every day working with displaced victims of violence in Sudan, Syria, and elsewhere. My point is that our military interventions are at best ineffective in solving these problems, and more often harmful. If we spent a tenth of the defense budget on actual humanitarian assistance, we would have one hundred times the positive impact.

I am pretty sure you and I have been through this before and it is clear we will get nowhere. Adios.
 
2013-02-14 09:30:03 AM
Want to dismantle the military but don't want to do it publically and piss off the general public?  No problem, just enact lots of new laws and rules that will piss off the soldiers themselves.  Oh, and make massive cuts through sequestration (something that you really don't want to do...wink, wink).

The Democrats have become experts at subterfuge.  They are whooping Republican arse all over the place with it.
 
2013-02-14 09:35:15 AM
The US does have a reputation for handing out chest candy and it sounds like it's deserved. Different mentality I suppose. If you look at British/Aussie/NZ/Canadian honors and awards, it is very reserved. If you get recognized for something, you know it's a big deal, and means more.

/I'm sure there are come exceptions. not an expert on ALL nations eligibility lists
 
2013-02-14 09:35:49 AM

PanicMan: Medals get promotions.  If you're doing a job that doesn't give out medals, you don't advance your career.  If your career doesn't advance, you get pushed out.

So give em damn medals.


Give 'em medals, sure.  But don't make their precedence higher than the medals given to the folks who are actually in harm's way.
 
2013-02-14 09:41:02 AM

Artisan Sandwich: The US does have a reputation for handing out chest candy and it sounds like it's deserved. Different mentality I suppose. If you look at British/Aussie/NZ/Canadian honors and awards, it is very reserved.


Not sure how other nations handle promotions, etc, but the US military's EVAL/FITREP system has repeatedly gotten stupid/been recalibrated/gotten stupid again, so it is hard to tell a high performer from just an "ok" pogue at times.  However, medals are one way, as they tend to be a little more standard.  Only "tend to" mind you - different communities hand out some medals more frequently, for less than others.  But even so, with medals being a little more difficult to obtain than a straight set of 5.0s on your FITREP/EVAL, they (and their associated promotion points) become more important for advancement.

So, yes, the US does tend to hand out more medals and ribbons - but that is because they play a larger part in our troops' eligibility for promotion.
 
2013-02-14 09:42:21 AM
Since the lowest award that can have a Combat V is an Achievement Medal, it should be one tick below that.
 
2013-02-14 09:42:25 AM
farking Gamers they need an achievement for everything.
 
2013-02-14 09:43:53 AM

modesto: liam76:
I know you certainly don't weep for them as you say we have no business being there.

Actually, you don't know shiat about me, dog.


I know you said we should "mind out own farking business".  Most people don't weep about things they think their govt shouldn't do anything to help.


modesto: I spend all day every day working with displaced victims of violence in Sudan, Syria, and elsewhere


Seem to have a lot of time on Fark.  And once again, why don't you "mind your own farking business"?

modesto: My point is that our military interventions are at best ineffective in solving these problems, and more often harmful. If we spent a tenth of the defense budget on actual humanitarian assistance, we would have one hundred times the positive impact


Humanitarian assistance to aeras with warlords without boots on the ground is assitance to warlords.


modesto: I am pretty sure you and I have been through this before and it is clear we will get nowhere.


Because you will sidestep any questions you don't like, and cry when people point out the implications of things lik etelling a govt to "mind its own business".
 
2013-02-14 09:49:55 AM

Resident Muslim: *sniff*
The generation that got medals for participating on sports day has grown up.

/dusty


At least they got out of the house, into the sunshine, and participate in some exercise. What has your flabby, basement dwelling, Cheeto devouring ass ever done? Oh wait let me guess you have every participation ribbon, I'm sorry I meant achievement, ever on Call of Duty.
 
2013-02-14 09:53:13 AM

PanicMan: Medals get promotions.  If you're doing a job that doesn't give out medals, you don't advance your career.  If your career doesn't advance, you get pushed out.



Those who go above and beyond the call of duty in an active combat zone get a medal. Those who sit in an air conditioned room stateside and watch a video feed get a higher ranking medal.

Between these two, who is going to get the promotion faster?

Should these drone pilots get the official recognition they deserve in order to advance their career? Absolutely. Should they get the equivalent of an Olympic silver medal while those who are crippled in combat while saving the lives of the rest of their squad get the equivalent of a souvenir ticket stub? Fark no.
 
2013-02-14 09:53:14 AM

Uisce Beatha: PanicMan: Medals get promotions.  If you're doing a job that doesn't give out medals, you don't advance your career.  If your career doesn't advance, you get pushed out.

So give em damn medals.

Give 'em medals, sure.  But don't make their precedence higher than the medals given to the folks who are actually in harm's way.


This is a tough judgement call. You need to promote and you have two guys; one has a Bronze w/V because he was hunkered down in a ditch one time and a bullet grazed his helmet, while the other guy sat back in a chair for six months, but was able to save hundreds of lives and was a solid producer. Without the points from the ribbons how do you justify promoting the armchair warrior? They might have learned a few lessons from the cold war on this one. There are many old guys out there that were true heroes, but will die unrecognized former E-4's.
 
2013-02-14 10:11:05 AM
I understand the outrage, but every mission a drone flies is one that doesn't put a pilot at risk.
 
2013-02-14 10:24:29 AM

liam76: So sitting out on Sudan and Darfur was the right move to you?

We should have stayed out of Libya?



Yes. It is not the responsibility of the US to intervene in another nation's internal disputes. That's what international bodies like the UN, the Arab League, and the African Union were created for.
 
2013-02-14 10:30:30 AM
I'd be OK with this if it ranked along with the other personal, non-combat, awards like the Achievement or Commendation medals.  Next thing you know they'll be getting the CAR for having their drone shot at.


/Navy vet
 
2013-02-14 10:39:17 AM

Teknowaffle: EngineerAU: Teknowaffle: Right before he retired from the Navy, my dad got a medal for figuring out a way to save the Navy millions of dollars. It also had a hand written note from Bill Clinton along with it.

Please tell me that the ribbon was green with dollar bill signs on it.

No, it was a meritorious service one I think. Though the note did have hints of chubby Jewess.


It was written on blue stationary and there was an obvious spunk blast on one of the corners?
 
2013-02-14 10:39:44 AM

give me doughnuts: Yes. It is not the responsibility of the US to intervene in another nation's internal disputes. That's what international bodies like the UN, the Arab League, and the African Union were created for


They sure did a bang up job in Sudan and Darfur...
 
2013-02-14 11:06:26 AM

Ficoce: Uisce Beatha: PanicMan: Medals get promotions.  If you're doing a job that doesn't give out medals, you don't advance your career.  If your career doesn't advance, you get pushed out.

So give em damn medals.

Give 'em medals, sure.  But don't make their precedence higher than the medals given to the folks who are actually in harm's way.

This is a tough judgement call. You need to promote and you have two guys; one has a Bronze w/V because he was hunkered down in a ditch one time and a bullet grazed his helmet, while the other guy sat back in a chair for six months, but was able to save hundreds of lives and was a solid producer. Without the points from the ribbons how do you justify promoting the armchair warrior? They might have learned a few lessons from the cold war on this one. There are many old guys out there that were true heroes, but will die unrecognized former E-4's.


That's why I perfer Air Force, we don't give promotions due to medals.  They promote people that they feel best to handle the job, atleast that's what we are supposed to do.  Just because you were in a gunfight doesn't always mean you are the best man for the job.
 
2013-02-14 11:43:15 AM
The military has a bunch of medals that are trumped up bullshiat? The devil, you say!
 
2013-02-14 11:45:27 AM
Why not the Air Medal, which ranks below the Bronze Star, and goes to those who distinguish themselves by meritorious achievement while participating in aerial flight?*

*As opposed to some other kind of flight.
 
2013-02-14 11:47:49 AM

Bacontastesgood: Not true.  Recruiters like to mislead people about this by comparing officers with bachelors to the general population, and enlisted with high school or better.  If you combine them, the % of people in uniform with a college diploma is less than in the civilian pop.


Yes it is true and the study proving it has been posted on Fark in the past. A higher percentage of active duty military personnel have a college degree than the civilian population.
 
2013-02-14 11:50:04 AM

liam76: give me doughnuts: Yes. It is not the responsibility of the US to intervene in another nation's internal disputes. That's what international bodies like the UN, the Arab League, and the African Union were created for

They sure did a bang up job in Sudan and Darfur...


Your argument would probably seem more credible if you would stop referring to one place as if it were two places.
 
2013-02-14 11:59:21 AM
static01.mediaite.com

Coffee... Black
 
2013-02-14 12:06:36 PM

modesto: liam76: give me doughnuts: Yes. It is not the responsibility of the US to intervene in another nation's internal disputes. That's what international bodies like the UN, the Arab League, and the African Union were created for

They sure did a bang up job in Sudan and Darfur...

Your argument would probably seem more credible if you would stop referring to one place as if it were two places.


That was rwanda in my head...

Either way it shouldn't matter to you as they are places as "we have no business there".
 
2013-02-14 12:10:24 PM
Hey, a pilot 10,000 miles away from combat can still save the lives of soldiers on the front line.  Or even make it so they don't have to go to the front line.  More soldiers saved is worth something, no?
 
2013-02-14 12:18:21 PM

OneMHz: Hey, a pilot 10,000 miles away from combat can still save the lives of soldiers on the front line.  Or even make it so they don't have to go to the front line.  More soldiers saved is worth something, no?



Something? Yes. But more than the actions of the soldier who threw himself on top of a grenade to save his squad?
 
2013-02-14 12:25:01 PM
I would never argue such.  I'm having a very incomplete thought kind of
 
2013-02-14 12:28:29 PM

liam76: modesto: liam76: give me doughnuts: Yes. It is not the responsibility of the US to intervene in another nation's internal disputes. That's what international bodies like the UN, the Arab League, and the African Union were created for

They sure did a bang up job in Sudan and Darfur...

Your argument would probably seem more credible if you would stop referring to one place as if it were two places.

That was rwanda in my head...

Either way it shouldn't matter to you as they are places as "we have no business there".


So you feel that we should wipe out the government in Khartoum? Because that is the only thing that will stop conflict there. I hope that while we are doing that, we have enough troops for the wars we'll need to fight in Syria, Eritrea, North Korea, Ethiopia, Zimbabwe, Burma, Iran, Israel, CAR, Somalia, Turkey, DR Congo and Colombia, all of which either kill their own people directly or are unable or unwilling to protect them from non-state actors. Hey why not- the contractors would love it, and how else do we measure the greatness of America if not by brown people bombed per year?
 
2013-02-14 12:29:44 PM
What happens when our guys start remotely operating ground drones?
 
2013-02-14 12:32:02 PM

the ha ha guy: Something? Yes. But more than the actions of the soldier who threw himself on top of a grenade to save his squad?


Soldiers who do that get more than a Bronze Star. I agree though, it shouldn't be ranked higher than any combat award, including the Purple Heart.
 
2013-02-14 12:51:05 PM

TNel: Ficoce: Uisce Beatha: PanicMan: Medals get promotions.  If you're doing a job that doesn't give out medals, you don't advance your career.  If your career doesn't advance, you get pushed out.

So give em damn medals.

Give 'em medals, sure.  But don't make their precedence higher than the medals given to the folks who are actually in harm's way.

This is a tough judgement call. You need to promote and you have two guys; one has a Bronze w/V because he was hunkered down in a ditch one time and a bullet grazed his helmet, while the other guy sat back in a chair for six months, but was able to save hundreds of lives and was a solid producer. Without the points from the ribbons how do you justify promoting the armchair warrior? They might have learned a few lessons from the cold war on this one. There are many old guys out there that were true heroes, but will die unrecognized former E-4's.

That's why I perfer Air Force, we don't give promotions due to medals.  They promote people that they feel best to handle the job, atleast that's what we are supposed to do.  Just because you were in a gunfight doesn't always mean you are the best man for the job.


Easy to say when, what, only 10% of your force actually flies?

/Snark, not (totally) serious
//Navy
///Deploys to warzones as much now as a Gov Civvie as I did as a squid
 
2013-02-14 12:55:57 PM

Popcorn Johnny: the ha ha guy: Something? Yes. But more than the actions of the soldier who threw himself on top of a grenade to save his squad?

Soldiers who do that get more than a Bronze Star. I agree though, it shouldn't be ranked higher than any combat award, including the Purple Heart.



The Drone Pilot medal, according to TFA, ranks higher than the Bronze Star.

Kyle Carpenter, who threw himself on a grenade to save his squad, has as of yet received nothing higher than a Purple Heart.
 
2013-02-14 12:57:50 PM

modesto: So you feel that we should wipe out the government in Khartoum? Because that is the only thing that will stop conflict there.


I seem to remember some guy earlier biatching about "black or white" thinking?

I wonder who that was, cause it couldn't be the guy saying the only way to stop states abusing their own is to "wipe out" certain govt's.
 
2013-02-14 01:07:21 PM

the ha ha guy: Kyle Carpenter, who threw himself on a grenade to save his squad, has as of yet received nothing higher than a Purple Heart.


There's a lot of debate about what actually happened in his case. Also, they're not saying he threw himself on a grenade, but that he put himself between the grenade and a fellow soldier. He hasn't been awarded or denied any medals as of yet and it appears that the investigation is ongoing.

When I was in the military, I read a book that listed all of the MoH winners, by far the most common way of being awarded one was to throw yourself on a grenade. I only remember hearing of one guy surviving the blast. He was quick thinking enough to cover the grenade with his helmet and then his body.
 
2013-02-14 01:18:21 PM

Popcorn Johnny: the ha ha guy:  I only remember hearing of one guy surviving the blast. He was quick thinking enough to cover the grenade with his helmet and then his body.


And sadly, that tactic doesn't always work...
 
2013-02-14 01:32:36 PM

OneMHz: Hey, a pilot 10,000 miles away from combat can still save the lives of soldiers on the front line.  Or even make it so they don't have to go to the front line.  More soldiers saved is worth something, no?


Hey! Just like a general. Bring me my bourbon and cigar.
 
2013-02-14 02:04:02 PM
A) Our troops do not need to be glorified.

B) ...Goddamnit. This, this is why I do not trust the DOD with drones. They are a shiny new toy, and for all the public knows they could be glitching every ten minutes, but as long as the DOD has Shiny New Toy Syndrome we'll keep relying on it.
 
2013-02-14 02:09:04 PM

PsiChick: A) Our troops do not need to be glorified.

B) ...Goddamnit. This, this is why I do not trust the DOD with drones. They are a shiny new toy, and for all the public knows they could be glitching every ten minutes, but as long as the DOD has Shiny New Toy Syndrome we'll keep relying on it.


And they always will, because of the huge defense industry need to maintain and justify it's existence. Be afraid and buy our stuff. Eisenhower called it 50 years ago.
 
2013-02-14 02:10:10 PM

TNel: Ficoce: Uisce Beatha: PanicMan: Medals get promotions.  If you're doing a job that doesn't give out medals, you don't advance your career.  If your career doesn't advance, you get pushed out.

So give em damn medals.

Give 'em medals, sure.  But don't make their precedence higher than the medals given to the folks who are actually in harm's way.

This is a tough judgement call. You need to promote and you have two guys; one has a Bronze w/V because he was hunkered down in a ditch one time and a bullet grazed his helmet, while the other guy sat back in a chair for six months, but was able to save hundreds of lives and was a solid producer. Without the points from the ribbons how do you justify promoting the armchair warrior? They might have learned a few lessons from the cold war on this one. There are many old guys out there that were true heroes, but will die unrecognized former E-4's.

That's why I perfer Air Force, we don't give promotions due to medals.  They promote people that they feel best to handle the job, atleast that's what we are supposed to do.  Just because you were in a gunfight doesn't always mean you are the best man for the job.


No they don't. They promote people based on how well they test. EPR's are a joke (Everyone is a 5, unless they are a complete dirtbag) and medals do count toward promotions.
 
2013-02-14 02:10:30 PM

modesto:  it's


its.

Sorry everybody. Sorry.
 
2013-02-14 02:27:26 PM

Uisce Beatha: TNel: Ficoce: Uisce Beatha: PanicMan: Medals get promotions.  If you're doing a job that doesn't give out medals, you don't advance your career.  If your career doesn't advance, you get pushed out.

So give em damn medals.

Give 'em medals, sure.  But don't make their precedence higher than the medals given to the folks who are actually in harm's way.

This is a tough judgement call. You need to promote and you have two guys; one has a Bronze w/V because he was hunkered down in a ditch one time and a bullet grazed his helmet, while the other guy sat back in a chair for six months, but was able to save hundreds of lives and was a solid producer. Without the points from the ribbons how do you justify promoting the armchair warrior? They might have learned a few lessons from the cold war on this one. There are many old guys out there that were true heroes, but will die unrecognized former E-4's.

That's why I perfer Air Force, we don't give promotions due to medals.  They promote people that they feel best to handle the job, atleast that's what we are supposed to do.  Just because you were in a gunfight doesn't always mean you are the best man for the job.

Easy to say when, what, only 10% of your force actually flies?

/Snark, not (totally) serious
//Navy
///Deploys to warzones as much now as a Gov Civvie as I did as a squid


////it's actually more like 2%
 
2013-02-14 02:32:01 PM

feickus: No they don't. They promote people based on how well they test. EPR's are a joke (Everyone is a 5, unless they are a complete dirtbag) and medals do count toward promotions.


Eligible promotees also get points for time in grade and time in service.  Medal points often can even the playing field between someone testing for their first time and someone who is on their fifth or sixth time.
 
2013-02-14 02:44:51 PM

Summoner101: feickus: No they don't. They promote people based on how well they test. EPR's are a joke (Everyone is a 5, unless they are a complete dirtbag) and medals do count toward promotions.

Eligible promotees also get points for time in grade and time in service.  Medal points often can even the playing field between someone testing for their first time and someone who is on their fifth or sixth time.


You're right I was aiming more at the medals don't count for anything and  they only promote people if they feel can do the job.  .
 
2013-02-14 02:48:09 PM

PsiChick: B) ...Goddamnit. This, this is why I do not trust the DOD with drones.


You don't trust drones because they pilots operators are getting medals?

There are a lot of concerns with drones, especially the manner in which the White house is using them, but this complaint with this article is the dumbest thing I have read on Fark all day.  Way to go!
 
2013-02-14 02:52:07 PM

feickus: Summoner101: feickus: No they don't. They promote people based on how well they test. EPR's are a joke (Everyone is a 5, unless they are a complete dirtbag) and medals do count toward promotions.

Eligible promotees also get points for time in grade and time in service.  Medal points often can even the playing field between someone testing for their first time and someone who is on their fifth or sixth time.

You're right I was aiming more at the medals don't count for anything and  they only promote people if they feel can do the job.  .


I wasn't trying to point out you were wrong, I was just fleshing out the point on how medals can often make a eligible promotee more competitive.
 
2013-02-14 03:17:01 PM
"In there rear with the gear". That was the expression in Vietnam.

Was stationed at Sang Bang Dang Gong with the Green Berets, Special Unit Battalions, Commando Airborne Tactics, Specialist Tactics Unit Battalion.

Yeah, it was real hush hush.

Where's my bronze star?
 
2013-02-14 11:13:28 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Resident Muslim: *sniff*
The generation that got medals for participating on sports day has grown up.

/dusty

At least they got out of the house, into the sunshine, and participate in some exercise. What has your flabby, basement dwelling, Cheeto devouring ass ever done? Oh wait let me guess you have every participation ribbon, I'm sorry I meant achievement, ever on Call of Duty.


For your information, I'm NOT a morlock basement dweller, and the attic has large windows, so I get a LOT of sunshine. I like to think that I'm akin to the dwellers of Cloud City. Nor am I flabby! Flabbiness is for people who cannot embrace and accept their body and then yo-yo diet, thereby stretching their skin. I embrace my body every day, and it is filled out nicely with no flabbiness!
It is NOT my ass that munches on Cheetos, it would be the other side, and truth be told, a true gamer would NOT go for Cheetos, thats for the junkies. you go for something non-oily, like Bugles (which you can turn into scary fingernails!!). And if you think the achievements in Call of Duty are easy without auto-targeting I'd like to see you play.
No, screw that, I'd like your handle so I can play against you and show you what dedicated people can do. But I digress, you probably have no skillz whatsoever, so feel free to mock me hiding behind the safety of your monitor instead of a battlefield like NukeTown.

Anyways, I have a game starting in 26 seconds so I have to go back to my AlienWare command center , but I hope you have learned your lesson.
 
2013-02-15 01:35:27 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Bacontastesgood: Not true.  Recruiters like to mislead people about this by comparing officers with bachelors to the general population, and enlisted with high school or better.  If you combine them, the % of people in uniform with a college diploma is less than in the civilian pop.

Yes it is true and the study proving it has been posted on Fark in the past. A higher percentage of active duty military personnel have a college degree than the civilian population.


Then Im sure you can come up with said study.  Unless you include minors which makes the comparison absurd, it aint so.
 
2013-02-15 07:19:50 AM
I'll put that right up there with the halo/scuba/tanker badge I made,
 and wore for Powell's retirement ceremony.

Bullshiat award is bullshiat.
 
2013-02-15 12:39:27 PM
img.photobucket.com
 
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