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(Sun Sentinel)   Man arrested for waving around a sword in public that "is known to loyal Star Trek fans as traditional Klingon Bat 'leth or Sword of Honor." Q'apla, Kurn   (sun-sentinel.com) divider line 141
    More: Florida, Sword of Honor, Star Trek, Klingons, Broward Sheriff, Fort Lauderdale, BSO, Broward counties, intersections  
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5828 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Feb 2013 at 8:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-13 09:35:33 PM

over_and_done: Random trivia:

the guy who played Kurn also played the adult Jake Sisko in the funky skip-forward-through-time episode.


That'd be the always awesome Tony Todd.
 
2013-02-13 09:37:09 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: [s18.postimage.org image 451x600]


A most excellent shop.
 
2013-02-13 09:38:27 PM
I liked how in Star Trek half the people in the galaxy had an energy dampening field and Starfleet didn't keep gunpowder-based weapons in a cabinet for when the lights go out.

/Would've liked to have seen Sisko go Indiana Jones on a Klingon
 
2013-02-13 09:40:14 PM

Feral_and_Preposterous: Known to "loyal Star Trek fans" my ass. No loyal Star Trek fan ever watched The Next Generation just like no loyal Star Wars fan ever watched the crapfest that was Episodes I-III.

/Not a loyal fan so--I did get to see ol' cow-patty head playing with his goofy crescent sword.


Eh? What's wrong with Episode III? Return of the Jedi is the second best of the trilogy.
 
2013-02-13 09:47:05 PM

Prussian_Roulette: I liked how in Star Trek half the people in the galaxy had an energy dampening field and Starfleet didn't keep gunpowder-based weapons in a cabinet for when the lights go out.

/Would've liked to have seen Sisko go Indiana Jones on a Klingon


Exactly. A rack full of Remington 870s with a few cases of 00 buck would have made story lines with the Borg a hell of a lot easier.
 
2013-02-13 09:48:13 PM

Feral_and_Preposterous: Known to "loyal Star Trek fans" my ass. No loyal Star Trek fan ever watched The Next Generation just like no loyal Star Wars fan ever watched the crapfest that was Episodes I-III.

/Not a loyal fan so--I did get to see ol' cow-patty head playing with his goofy crescent sword.


Keep dreaming nerd.  TNG is superior to TOS in every way except for the movies.
 
2013-02-13 09:52:07 PM

Mega Steve: He obviously had too much blood wine


this.
 
2013-02-13 09:53:45 PM

Neondistraction: Feral_and_Preposterous: Known to "loyal Star Trek fans" my ass. No loyal Star Trek fan ever watched The Next Generation just like no loyal Star Wars fan ever watched the crapfest that was Episodes I-III.

/Not a loyal fan so--I did get to see ol' cow-patty head playing with his goofy crescent sword.

Keep dreaming nerd.  TNG is superior to TOS in every way except for the movies.


wrong. the original is superior in every way. did you not see spock's brain? philistine.
 
2013-02-13 09:54:15 PM
As a guy who's made swords for a few decades, the bat'leth breaks my heart. It looks like a joke, not a weapon. There's a reason every sword-using culture has come to the basic idea of "grip at one end, sharp pointy bit going the other way". It's simple and it works.
 
2013-02-13 09:58:58 PM

over_and_done: Random trivia:

the guy who played Kurn also played the adult Jake Sisko in the funky skip-forward-through-time episode.


I got one for you:

In Star Trek VI, the klingon appointed to defend Kirk is named Worf, and is played by Michael Dorn.
 
2013-02-13 10:00:38 PM
What's wrong with standing near a sword and waving?
 
m00
2013-02-13 10:02:44 PM

sanriosucks: Feral_and_Preposterous: Known to "loyal Star Trek fans" my ass. No loyal Star Trek fan ever watched The Next Generation just like no loyal Star Wars fan ever watched the crapfest that was Episodes I-III.

/Not a loyal fan so--I did get to see ol' cow-patty head playing with his goofy crescent sword.


Ahh crap, you done went there. There is a time and a place for an "original series" vs. "tng" debate. If this is where you want to do, well, that's what's going to happen, but you have the chance now to just say the thread about the naked* black guy in Florida with a Klingon sword while drunk and in public isn't it.

*for dramatic effect


DS9 was the best of them.
 
2013-02-13 10:03:15 PM

JosephFinn: Feral_and_Preposterous: Known to "loyal Star Trek fans" my ass. No loyal Star Trek fan ever watched The Next Generation just like no loyal Star Wars fan ever watched the crapfest that was Episodes I-III.

/Not a loyal fan so--I did get to see ol' cow-patty head playing with his goofy crescent sword.

Eh? What's wrong with Episode III? Return of the Jedi is the second best of the trilogy.


Don't know if your trolling, but Return of the Jedi was episode 6.
 
2013-02-13 10:03:19 PM

Prussian_Roulette: I liked how in Star Trek half the people in the galaxy had an energy dampening field and Starfleet didn't keep gunpowder-based weapons in a cabinet for when the lights go out.


Well, there was the TR-116, the only handheld projectile weapon in the Starfleet inventory, circa 2375.  Created specifically for environment where phasers could not work due to various energy dampening fields, it's fires chemically propelled titanium slugs and is in a rifle configuration.

There was a DS9 episode "Field of Fire" about one being used as an assassination weapon (when fitted with a micro-transporter, so they could essentially beam a speeding bullet into another room).

So yeah, they actually kind of addressed the point, once.  (That and judging by on-screen evidence, projectile guns are the most effective weapon against Borg, since Picard plowed through them with a tommy gun in First Contact)
 
2013-02-13 10:03:55 PM

NephilimNexus: Big kudos to the journalist who didn't mislabel it as a "samurai sword" for once!


Is that Mr. Spork?

templeofthegeekgoddess.com
 
m00
2013-02-13 10:04:08 PM

cynicalbastard: As a guy who's made swords for a few decades, the bat'leth breaks my heart. It looks like a joke, not a weapon. There's a reason every sword-using culture has come to the basic idea of "grip at one end, sharp pointy bit going the other way". It's simple and it works.


www.superiormartialarts.com
 
2013-02-13 10:04:56 PM

Therion: "Johnnie Blade" - are they sure he wasn't holding one of these?

[steelcloset.com image 400x400]


Is that a pair of wrestling trunks?
 
2013-02-13 10:05:15 PM
Was it this guy?

/I hate Pawn Stars.
//Not a Trekkie.
 
2013-02-13 10:12:03 PM

MarkEC: JosephFinn: Feral_and_Preposterous: Known to "loyal Star Trek fans" my ass. No loyal Star Trek fan ever watched The Next Generation just like no loyal Star Wars fan ever watched the crapfest that was Episodes I-III.

/Not a loyal fan so--I did get to see ol' cow-patty head playing with his goofy crescent sword.

Eh? What's wrong with Episode III? Return of the Jedi is the second best of the trilogy.

Don't know if your trolling, but Return of the Jedi was episode 6.


Nice try.  The prequels don't count.
 
2013-02-13 10:12:41 PM

BuckTurgidson: [10awesome.com image 380x280]


I went to a small engineering/technical school in the UP of Michigan.

The week that song was released, it was the only thing you heard as you walked through the dorms.
 
2013-02-13 10:28:22 PM

m00: cynicalbastard: As a guy who's made swords for a few decades, the bat'leth breaks my heart. It looks like a joke, not a weapon. There's a reason every sword-using culture has come to the basic idea of "grip at one end, sharp pointy bit going the other way". It's simple and it works.

[www.superiormartialarts.com image 330x550]


Yeah, about those- got any refs for their use in actual battle, as opposed to esoteric martial arts and various kung-fu movies?
 
2013-02-13 10:35:59 PM
I had a chance to use a bat'leth a few months ago at a pumpkin-slashing fest thrown by a martial arts instructor. I train in bladed weapons but had never used a "novelty" item like the bat'leth. Let me tell you, the only weapon on the table that sucked worse than the bat'leth was a fake samurai sword which we managed to give a "permanent wave" after only a couple of cuts. In battle, the bat'leth is guaranteed to kill someone -- that someone being yourself.

I don't even think it looks particularly bad-ass either. It's kind of dorky, and that silly move where a Klingon raises the bat'leth above his head with both arms to block a downward strike it a pretty dumb move as it leaves you abdomen wide open to attack, not to mention any real Klingon ought to be ashamed to employ such a purely defensive move such as that. Always counter-attack while defending.
 
2013-02-13 10:43:14 PM

awgsilyari: I had a chance to use a bat'leth a few months ago at a pumpkin-slashing fest thrown by a martial arts instructor. I train in bladed weapons but had never used a "novelty" item like the bat'leth. Let me tell you, the only weapon on the table that sucked worse than the bat'leth was a fake samurai sword which we managed to give a "permanent wave" after only a couple of cuts. In battle, the bat'leth is guaranteed to kill someone -- that someone being yourself.

I don't even think it looks particularly bad-ass either. It's kind of dorky, and that silly move where a Klingon raises the bat'leth above his head with both arms to block a downward strike it a pretty dumb move as it leaves you abdomen wide open to attack, not to mention any real Klingon ought to be ashamed to employ such a purely defensive move such as that. Always counter-attack while defending.


Paging FightDirector and Therion to thread 7591288
 
m00
2013-02-13 10:46:21 PM

cynicalbastard: m00: cynicalbastard: As a guy who's made swords for a few decades, the bat'leth breaks my heart. It looks like a joke, not a weapon. There's a reason every sword-using culture has come to the basic idea of "grip at one end, sharp pointy bit going the other way". It's simple and it works.

[www.superiormartialarts.com image 330x550]

Yeah, about those- got any refs for their use in actual battle, as opposed to esoteric martial arts and various kung-fu movies?


I wouldn't call it "esoteric" -- it's a traditional Chinese weapon, and found in a lot of Kung Fu offshoots. I'm not saying it's common, but they were actually used in battle. You can check wikipedia for "hook sword." But basically the hooks are used for trapping/disarming.

There is also something that looks kinda like a one-handed Bat'leth (It's a seven-pointed Knife) which you can see on the wall in the background

pages.123-reg.co.uk

Also, there are deer-horn knives: http://deerhornknives.com/knives.html
deerhornknives.com

These were actually used as a concealed weapon, and supposedly can counter larger swords, and spears.
 
2013-02-13 10:54:47 PM
Meh, you can usually find something laying around that can beat a sword.

nerdsofwisdom.com
 
2013-02-13 10:59:03 PM
WHAR 2ND AMMENDMENT? WHAR?!
 
2013-02-13 11:12:21 PM
Here's the thing.

If he was wearing Klingon garb including the forehead and nose...the cops probably would have laughed and let him go with a warning.  But the fact that he was stoned and in possession of drugs made him easy pickings for the cops.
 
2013-02-13 11:12:39 PM
I expect that the Chinese silly weapons were on occasion "used in battle" by someone attempting to hit someone else in earnest, but that doesn't make them "battlefield weapons" any more than the rice forks and well handles used by Okinawan peasants were.

There's a reason that the masses get long pointy things and the elite got armor and shorter pointy things for slaughtering their fellow man, and that reason is efficiency. Bit of metal with random ends and curves and hooks used to "trap an opponent's weapon!" are gimmicks that leave their wielders in shallow graves.
 
2013-02-13 11:19:50 PM
Isn't that TuBlaque from Voyager?
 
2013-02-13 11:21:36 PM

Therion: I expect that the Chinese silly weapons were on occasion "used in battle" by someone attempting to hit someone else in earnest, but that doesn't make them "battlefield weapons" any more than the rice forks and well handles used by Okinawan peasants were.

There's a reason that the masses get long pointy things and the elite got armor and shorter pointy things for slaughtering their fellow man, and that reason is efficiency. Bit of metal with random ends and curves and hooks used to "trap an opponent's weapon!" are gimmicks that leave their wielders in shallow graves.


www.toptenz.net

But... but.. dungeons and dragons taught me that the more esoteric looking a weapon is, the better it must be? Why use a pike when you can use a multibladed chainwhip?
 
2013-02-13 11:22:08 PM

m00: I wouldn't call it "esoteric" -- it's a traditional Chinese weapon, and found in a lot of Kung Fu offshoots. I'm not saying it's common, but they were actually used in battle. You can check wikipedia for "hook sword." But basically the hooks are used for trapping/disarming.



Yeah, I checked it out. Again, no references to it actually being used in battle, and only finding a comparatively recent origin for the weapon. It's not a weapon that lends itself to any sort of battlefield combat. Like the European "Duelling shield", used in judicial duels- it's an interesting curiosity, and techniques were developed to use it, but noone would use one in an actual combat situation on a battlefield over a more conventional and likely far lighter weapon.
 
2013-02-13 11:27:18 PM
Esoteric polearms have the advantage of range. A billhook in hand is really only useful for cutting brush, but put it on the end of a six or seven foot stick and it becomes a useful weapon.
 
2013-02-13 11:29:59 PM
Oh, and the implement in Fano's picture was used for capture, not killing.
 
2013-02-13 11:30:13 PM

m00: sanriosucks: Feral_and_Preposterous: Known to "loyal Star Trek fans" my ass. No loyal Star Trek fan ever watched The Next Generation just like no loyal Star Wars fan ever watched the crapfest that was Episodes I-III.

/Not a loyal fan so--I did get to see ol' cow-patty head playing with his goofy crescent sword.


Ahh crap, you done went there. There is a time and a place for an "original series" vs. "tng" debate. If this is where you want to do, well, that's what's going to happen, but you have the chance now to just say the thread about the naked* black guy in Florida with a Klingon sword while drunk and in public isn't it.

*for dramatic effect

DS9 was the best of them.




Enterprise was the best. In paticular season 4
 
2013-02-13 11:36:35 PM

NephilimNexus: Big kudos to the journalist who didn't mislabel it as a "samurai sword" for once!

[imageshack.us image 800x800]


I was gonna say, how do they get the name for something like this right, but every gun is a Glock or AK47* ?


*(I think they've switched to AR15 now actually)
 
2013-02-13 11:36:54 PM

Therion: Esoteric polearms have the advantage of range. A billhook in hand is really only useful for cutting brush, but put it on the end of a six or seven foot stick and it becomes a useful weapon.


A billhook's hardly esoteric. Just another variation of blade-on-a-stick. Like the Lochabar axe, the Dane axe, the original halberd- not the prettied-up Papal guard thing. Loads of choppy-chop, but still plenty of point there for keeping someone at a distance.
 
m00
2013-02-13 11:37:14 PM

Therion: I expect that the Chinese silly weapons were on occasion "used in battle" by someone attempting to hit someone else in earnest, but that doesn't make them "battlefield weapons" any more than the rice forks and well handles used by Okinawan peasants were.

There's a reason that the masses get long pointy things and the elite got armor and shorter pointy things for slaughtering their fellow man, and that reason is efficiency. Bit of metal with random ends and curves and hooks used to "trap an opponent's weapon!" are gimmicks that leave their wielders in shallow graves.


I dunno. African tribes also had some pretty bizarre looking weapons, and I guarantee you that they were used in actual war against each other, and later the British. I just think most human warfare has been pretty ritualized throughout history, and martial weapons in general reflect that. Especially in cultures that had a warrior caste, where the soldiers were pretty much the elites. I just don't find it unreasonable that in the fictional world of Star Trek a Bat'leth exists as a traditional weapon that is used in combat.

No, your average peasant conscripted into service isn't going to get anything fancy -- and you are right, they are going to get the cheapest "wood + sharp thing" that can be made. But I don't see a parallel between that situation and Klingons.
 
2013-02-13 11:40:48 PM

Therion: Esoteric polearms have the advantage of range. A billhook in hand is really only useful for cutting brush, but put it on the end of a six or seven foot stick and it becomes a useful weapon.


Between the gladius and the pilum, the Roman Centurion was a model of efficiency. Most polearms make perfect sense to give to peasant levies, since they serve to keep opponents away with relatively little training. Most exotic weaponry that one sees in asian martial arts seems along the lines of gladiator weapons, stuff to make a fight look interesting.

Meanwhile, the shortest distance to a foe's heart is a straight line, and so successful hand weapons involved spears, swords, and knives.
 
2013-02-13 11:50:54 PM

Therion: Oh, and the implement in Fano's picture was used for capture, not killing.


Yes, that's a mancatcher, and was the most unusual standard weapon I could think of from AD&D. I'm now trying to think of weird Indian weapons like the urumi or scissor katars. At any rate, a Bat' leth seems to me the least efficient weapon a person could possibly design outside of the weird shiat used in the Soulcaliber series.
 
2013-02-13 11:55:26 PM
Yup.
 
m00
2013-02-13 11:56:39 PM

Fano: At any rate, a Bat' leth seems to me the least efficient weapon a person could possibly design outside of the weird shiat used in the Soulcaliber series.


"Wind and Fire wheels" are worse. Couldn't remember the name, so I looked it up.

www.kenfuderyu.co.za

Can you imagine one of those in each hand and trying not to cut yourself?
 
2013-02-13 11:57:25 PM
 
2013-02-13 11:58:30 PM

unchellmatt: I've always been of the opinion that a bat'leth wold be a perfect addition to a zombie preparedness arsenal. Great for close fighting, big pointy bits for jabbing in the head, and can be swing easily and effectively for decapitation.


Even though it has been somewhat overdiscussed in the rest of the thread, I am still disappoint that this wasn't shared:

art.penny-arcade.com
 
m00
2013-02-13 11:59:17 PM
Oooh... what about the "Heaven and Earth Moon Sword."

www.kenfuderyu.co.za

We can play a game of "What's the dumbest looking weapon on this page." I found a great site to laugh at while looking up the name of the wheels.

http://www.kenfuderyu.co.za/Chinese%20Martial%20Art%20Weapons.htm
 
2013-02-14 12:11:34 AM

m00: Oooh... what about the "Heaven and Earth Moon Sword."

[www.kenfuderyu.co.za image 325x193]

We can play a game of "What's the dumbest looking weapon on this page." I found a great site to laugh at while looking up the name of the wheels.

http://www.kenfuderyu.co.za/Chinese%20Martial%20Art%20Weapons.htm


See, that weapon makes more sense since there more room to hold it, and if you took the crescent blade doodads off it would look like a lethal version of a pugil stick. It's the last third of that page that has the crazy stupid shiat. The first two thirds looks pretty reasonable.

The wheels however fall into the category of "shiat that's just as dangerous to the wielder as to the enemy, unless you spent a lifetime training with it." That's a mark of a crappy weapon.
 
2013-02-14 12:11:46 AM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: over_and_done: I thought they were natural myself.

Er, wait, we're not talking about the same props, are we...

I was always suspicious of the perfect symmetry/same shape/no movement across every episode. Same with her hair.


You really need to study women's fashion more, bras back then were a lot stiffer, and costuming probably designed hers so she could run\jump in them.

/Speaking from experience, the best part of a bra is  mobility.
 
2013-02-14 12:15:38 AM
www.wired.com
 
2013-02-14 12:20:43 AM
M00, I was watching the first Nat Geo video on that page and laughing at the showy techniques for swordfighting. I realize what sort of stuff looks neat and what is effective, having fenced saber in college, and the back flips, twirls, and jumping strikes look like great ways to get killed.
 
2013-02-14 12:23:41 AM
In fact, the bat'leth is an incredibly shiatty weapon even by pre-gunpowder standards. It's clumsy, heavy and, because you need two hands to use it, it has almost no reach. You can go one handed to swing at your opponent, but that sends the other razor-sharp end directly at your own gut.
Sure, you could say the same about the cool two-bladed lightsaber in The Phantom Menace, but at least that could deflect lasers. The bat'leth can't even deflect the scorn your enemies will have for you for carrying the damn thing.

 
m00
2013-02-14 12:24:44 AM

Fano: M00, I was watching the first Nat Geo video on that page and laughing at the showy techniques for swordfighting. I realize what sort of stuff looks neat and what is effective, having fenced saber in college, and the back flips, twirls, and jumping strikes look like great ways to get killed.


I was watching it too. It made one VALID point (I think in part 4), that peasants weren't allowed to use weapons, and I guess the more ridiculous something looked the less likely it was to be taken seriously as a weapon. But then you are like "ah-ha, I've been training for a decade to kill you with this absurd looking thing."

It also called the "Wind and Fire Wheels" popular in the (song?) dynasty.
 
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