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(Washington Times)   Illegal immigrant tells congressional panel: "No human being is illegal"   (washingtontimes.com) divider line 424
    More: Interesting, illegal immigrants, judicial panel, Pulitzer Prize-winning, Jose Antonio Vargas, immigration reform, DHS  
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2089 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Feb 2013 at 6:58 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-13 04:16:42 PM
"Unlawful entrant"?
 
2013-02-13 04:17:14 PM
I can think of a few that should be
 
2013-02-13 04:23:11 PM
Yes. Yes, they are.
 
2013-02-13 04:27:56 PM

JohnAnnArbor: "Unlawful entrant"?


"Undocumented immigrant" was the term used in the law office in which I interned. Most of our clients came here legally and their visas were not properly explained to them, so they expired and the people became "illegals" without realizing it.
 
2013-02-13 04:29:54 PM
No thief is illegal either.
But they did commit and illegal act.

so rather than say "theft" we should just say "undocumented possession" so we don't hurt their feelings.
 
2013-02-13 04:31:04 PM

mahuika: JohnAnnArbor: "Unlawful entrant"?

"Undocumented immigrant" was the term used in the law office in which I interned. Most of our clients came here legally and their visas were not properly explained to them, so they expired and the people became "illegals" without realizing it.


how do you know that their visas were not properly explained to them?  Isn't it possible that they didn't understand what they were being told?
 
2013-02-13 04:33:53 PM
Although I'm breaking the law, you shouldn't make me feel bad about it.  Jeez.
 
2013-02-13 04:36:15 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: No thief is illegal either.
But they did commit and illegal act.

so rather than say "theft" we should just say "undocumented possession" so we don't hurt their feelings.


Ah yes, comparing people who cross the border for a better life with thieves and murderers.  Nice to see this GOP strategy is alive and well.  How else are democrats supposed to stomp republicans by 20 points with every voting group except white males?
 
2013-02-13 04:36:52 PM
Well, that's f*cking stupid.
 
2013-02-13 04:40:20 PM
How about "felon"?
 
2013-02-13 04:40:47 PM
It's easy to be sympathetic to someone who has lived his entire remembered life in a country only to find out he's not a legal resident.  Someone should start a non-profit to help people raised in these circumstances blame their parents.
 
2013-02-13 04:41:23 PM
Easier to hate someone if you give them a nasty label.  Note who is in here bitterly hating these people, and angry that they want to be treated as human beings.
 
2013-02-13 04:41:47 PM

mahuika: JohnAnnArbor: "Unlawful entrant"?

"Undocumented immigrant" was the term used in the law office in which I interned. Most of our clients came here legally and their visas were not properly explained to them, so they expired and the people became "illegals" without realizing it.


Or they're just making it up that they didn't understand the visa.

When I went to Ireland, the stamp said how many days I could stay.  It wasn't rocket science.  If our visa system is so complex that the visa-ee doesn't understand it, we need to simplify things.
 
2013-02-13 04:43:15 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: mahuika: JohnAnnArbor: "Unlawful entrant"?

"Undocumented immigrant" was the term used in the law office in which I interned. Most of our clients came here legally and their visas were not properly explained to them, so they expired and the people became "illegals" without realizing it.

how do you know that their visas were not properly explained to them?  Isn't it possible that they didn't understand what they were being told?


Sure, I guess you could put it that way. The point is, someone is supposed to make sure that an immigrant, who is entering the country, entirely understands the terms of their stay.  These guys weren't acting maliciously and they didn't realize that their actions had caused them to become undocumented. Some were even victims of scams, their family had paid someone lots of money to get them American residency, and the person pocketed the money and got them a visa for a short-term vacation.
 
2013-02-13 04:43:20 PM
Get busted peeing behind a bush and you're a sex offender in many states.  Illegally enter the country? No big deal.
 
2013-02-13 04:44:25 PM

JohnAnnArbor: mahuika: JohnAnnArbor: "Unlawful entrant"?

"Undocumented immigrant" was the term used in the law office in which I interned. Most of our clients came here legally and their visas were not properly explained to them, so they expired and the people became "illegals" without realizing it.

Or they're just making it up that they didn't understand the visa.

When I went to Ireland, the stamp said how many days I could stay.  It wasn't rocket science.  If our visa system is so complex that the visa-ee doesn't understand it, we need to simplify things.


Simplify things? AKA reform the system?
 
2013-02-13 04:45:09 PM
And there some of them are now
 
2013-02-13 04:45:24 PM
We're letting illegals speak before congress now?
 
2013-02-13 04:58:11 PM

gilgigamesh: tenpoundsofcheese: No thief is illegal either.
But they did commit and illegal act.

so rather than say "theft" we should just say "undocumented possession" so we don't hurt their feelings.

Ah yes, comparing people who cross the border for a better life with thieves and murderers.  Nice to see this GOP strategy is alive and well.  How else are democrats supposed to stomp republicans by 20 points with every voting group except white males?


waaa, waaa, waaa.

I didn't say anything about murderers - oh wait, I mean "undocumented extinguisher of another person's life".

If being in the country illegally is not illegal, then we should change all definitions of illegal acts to just point out that it is just a documentation problem.

an "undocumented immigrant" is a person who legally is an immigrant but does not have the proper documentation.

It is completely dishonest to say a person in the country illegally just is "undocumented", just like saying a thief is an undocumented owner of property.
 
2013-02-13 05:00:12 PM

mahuika: tenpoundsofcheese: mahuika: JohnAnnArbor: "Unlawful entrant"?

"Undocumented immigrant" was the term used in the law office in which I interned. Most of our clients came here legally and their visas were not properly explained to them, so they expired and the people became "illegals" without realizing it.

how do you know that their visas were not properly explained to them?  Isn't it possible that they didn't understand what they were being told?

Sure, I guess you could put it that way. The point is, someone is supposed to make sure that an immigrant, who is entering the country, entirely understands the terms of their stay.


How do you know that they didn't ask the person "do you understand the terms of your visa?" and the person answered "yes"?
You don't.  You are just assuming that people who overstay their visas somehow are victims of someone.
 
2013-02-13 05:18:09 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: mahuika: tenpoundsofcheese: mahuika: JohnAnnArbor: "Unlawful entrant"?

"Undocumented immigrant" was the term used in the law office in which I interned. Most of our clients came here legally and their visas were not properly explained to them, so they expired and the people became "illegals" without realizing it.

how do you know that their visas were not properly explained to them?  Isn't it possible that they didn't understand what they were being told?

Sure, I guess you could put it that way. The point is, someone is supposed to make sure that an immigrant, who is entering the country, entirely understands the terms of their stay.

How do you know that they didn't ask the person "do you understand the terms of your visa?" and the person answered "yes"?
You don't.  You are just assuming that people who overstay their visas somehow are victims of someone.


If they didn't understand the terms of their visa, then the person whose job it was to explain those terms to them, with a translator present if necessary, did not perform adequately. Our immigration system is wildly in need of reform that won't happen for political reasons, so this happens more often than it should. This is indicative of a larger problem than just "maybe those immigrants who actually qualified for our highly competitive visa programs are idiots or lying."
 
2013-02-13 05:21:12 PM
The restrictions of our Border Patrol are incredible now. I watch the show on History (That's the old-people channel that's not CBS, right?), and the extremes they go to -- Flying helicopters out of Davis-Monthan with heat-seeking cameras, to catch 3 guys who each had like a gallon of water and were just following the pipeline North. Then they were going to meet family in like Bakersfield.

In the 70s my dad was a "runner." Sometimes they called them "coyotes," but for the most part, he'd take his little Datsun pickup down to Palomas (New Mexico) and ask who needed work at harvest time, or when it was time to sheer sheep. He'd bring back 4 or 5 guys and make $200. Now...THOUSANDS of dollars and families go as hostages, little girls get raped, etc until the debt is paid off. What a system. This is what happens when you force things underground.

Look, most of those immigrants are hard-working people who just want a better future. I think we can all agree that we have a lot of native-born Americans who just don't cut it. We need some sort of exchange program with the rest of the world to keep the numbers steady, that's all I'm saying.

Damn, in my grandparents' day, there wasn't really even a border to protect. Arizona and New Mexico became states in the two before my grandpa was born. It's an old joke, but the border REALLY did cross them. One day they were Mexicans, and literally the next, they were Americans. People just walked across the border all the time, probably until about the 50s. They just asked your last name and where you were going. They didn't even check ID. Way back when, I think something considered a predecessor to modern border cops stopped my grandpa and asked him if he was American. (His skin is fish-belly white, like mine, and that's due to HIS grandfater who came up here throuh Tampico and bought a small sheep ranch.) My grandpa answered back (he was bilingual) ¿Qué te importa a tí? What does it matter to you? And he just kept on walking. He hadn't even HEARD of Guadalupe Hidalgo until after doing the CCC Camps and going in the Army, where they gave him a basic education. There were no school marms on the ranches in Catrón County, New Mexico. If you could afford a radio, you were the center of Society.

But long story short (TOO LATE) -- People always assumed that my grandfather was an immigrant to this country because his first language was Spanish. But they'd ask him why he was so "white" because he had very light skin, thanks to my great-great-great Grandfather José María Castillo, who looked more like Heath Ledger than Iñigo Montoya.  He learned how to be a fluent clerk in ENGLISH thanks to the CCC camps and the Army, and retired from the Forest Service with a pretty damned good pension. He married an Ysleta Pueblo, so all my Aunts and Uncles are DARK, but have light eyes. Very striking. My dad hates driving to New Mexico Anymore, because the Border Patrol might as well be Sheriff Joe. He gets pulled over for DWB (Driving While Brown) all the time. In the last few decades Arizona and New Mexico let a Federal create this fascist, very selective program, take over who does and doesn't get pulled over. Thank god my mom is Irish and I have this crappy fish-belly skin, or I'd be getting pulled over right and left here.

We Were ALL born here. ALL of us US citizens by birth, but my family gets special treatment because of the color of their skin.

Afternoon rant finished. I'm sorry if you read that or had to see it.
 
2013-02-13 05:25:50 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: words, so many words


I thought you were Canadian.
 
2013-02-13 05:27:13 PM
I'm not whinging, ten pounds. Like I said, I fully encourage your approach.

So please: proceed.
 
2013-02-13 05:41:09 PM
I was "an illegal" for close to a year after I married my wife. The American immigration system is a complete and total clusterfark even for people immigrating on the easiest and most painless path and it's entirely due to nationalist pieces of shiat passing horrible legislation to make it that way. As far as I'm concerned, no Republican has any farking right to speak on the subject of immigration, illegal or otherwise. Fark you idiots, you created this mess.
 
2013-02-13 05:55:14 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: I was "an illegal" for close to a year after I married my wife. The American immigration system is a complete and total clusterfark even for people immigrating on the easiest and most painless path and it's entirely due to nationalist pieces of shiat passing horrible legislation to make it that way. As far as I'm concerned, no Republican has any farking right to speak on the subject of immigration, illegal or otherwise. Fark you idiots, you created this mess.


CSB: Yeah, I have a friend who immigrated here legally - she married an American. She spent months and months and thousands of dollars and headaches and hassles- she followed all the rules and did everything 'by the book'. She said it was no wonder that people just come over illegally, the legal way was such BS.
 
2013-02-13 05:56:05 PM
You know what I hate?

Cuban refugees. If they step off their raft and sets foot on this country, their "illegal" status disappears and they become legal and the Republicans welcome them in with open arms. But if you're Guatamalan, you're farked.

It's funny how Republicans complain about how "amnesty" or "a path to citizenship" means that undocumented aliens get to skip in line a head of other immigrants who followed the immigration law. But they also coddle the Cuban community even though those guys skip in line ahead of legal immigrants like me a hell of a lot more often than any undocumented aliens do.

It took me over a decade to get my citizenship, and I immigrated from a Communist country just as repressive as Cuba. Why don't I get special treatment?
 
2013-02-13 05:56:42 PM

staplermofo: ecmoRandomNumbers: words, so many words

I thought you were Canadian.


I apologize.
 
2013-02-13 05:56:59 PM

gilgigamesh: Ah yes, comparing people who cross the border for a better life with thieves and murderers. Nice to see this GOP strategy is alive and well. How else are democrats supposed to stomp republicans by 20 points with every voting group except white males?




Oh so why they broke the law is the important part!! Ok as long as they have a good reason
 
2013-02-13 05:57:13 PM

vernonFL: A Dark Evil Omen: I was "an illegal" for close to a year after I married my wife. The American immigration system is a complete and total clusterfark even for people immigrating on the easiest and most painless path and it's entirely due to nationalist pieces of shiat passing horrible legislation to make it that way. As far as I'm concerned, no Republican has any farking right to speak on the subject of immigration, illegal or otherwise. Fark you idiots, you created this mess.

CSB: Yeah, I have a friend who immigrated here legally - she married an American. She spent months and months and thousands of dollars and headaches and hassles- she followed all the rules and did everything 'by the book'. She said it was no wonder that people just come over illegally, the legal way was such BS.


My situation exactly. It's completely farking ridiculous. And my brother immigrated to South Korea the same way and it took him a farking weekend, so I don't want any smoke blown up my ass about "it's harder everywhere else!!!! hurr!" because that's some farking bullshiat.
 
2013-02-13 05:58:29 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: gilgigamesh: Ah yes, comparing people who cross the border for a better life with thieves and murderers. Nice to see this GOP strategy is alive and well. How else are democrats supposed to stomp republicans by 20 points with every voting group except white males?

Oh so why they broke the law is the important part!! Ok as long as they have a good reason


Look how stupid you are.
 
2013-02-13 06:02:52 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Damn, in my grandparents' day, there wasn't really even a border to protect. Arizona and New Mexico became states in the two before my grandpa was born. It's an old joke, but the border REALLY did cross them. One day they were Mexicans, and literally the next, they were Americans. People just walked across the border all the time, probably until about the 50s. They just asked your last name and where you were going. They didn't even check ID.


The vast majority of Americans will know nothing about this. Unless a person lives out there or have knowledge of the shared culture that goes back hundreds of years before the founding of the U.S., its beyond their experience or anything taught in most U.S. history classes. Like the imposing of the border between India and Pakistan in 1947.....
 
2013-02-13 06:03:16 PM
Okay, I should rephrase. I don't hate Cuban refugees. I don't hate their desire for a better life in a less repressive country.

I hate the US's stupid policy towards Cuban refugees and the double standard that the GOP doesn't seem willing to acknowledge as they coddle the Cubano community.
 
2013-02-13 06:04:33 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Oh so why they broke the law is the important part!! Ok as long as they have a good reason


That is seriously how its done. Like being a Cuban immigrant escaping from Cuba and landing on America's Wang. Try being Haitian instead and doing the exact same thing.
 
2013-02-13 06:05:37 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: And my brother immigrated to South Korea


Emigrated!  Learn English you god damned commie fascist socialist monarchist theocrat!
And stop stealing our jobs, women folk, education, social welfare, public works, fresh water supply!
Love it or leave it!  Except your country of origin, you should stay there even if you don't love it.
 
2013-02-13 06:08:26 PM

staplermofo: A Dark Evil Omen: And my brother immigrated to South Korea

Emigrated!  Learn English you god damned commie fascist socialist monarchist theocrat!
And stop stealing our jobs, women folk, education, social welfare, public works, fresh water supply!
Love it or leave it!  Except your country of origin, you should stay there even if you don't love it.


Emigrated, right. :)

And also, yes, I see the wisdom of your words of wisdom. There is no more important factor to a person nor truly immutable fact than which side of a bullshiat imaginary line scribbled on a map they fell out of their mother on.
 
2013-02-13 06:12:25 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Look how stupid you are.


Are you going to argue that tax fraud is alright just so long as you are feeding your family?

We're not talking about murder here. There isn't levels of illegal immigrant. There are political refugees but in order to do that you need to appear, be counted and start the paperwork. Illegal immigrants are breaking the law every single day they are here.

look how stupid you are.
 
2013-02-13 06:14:09 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: No thief is illegal either.
But they did commit and illegal act.

so rather than say "theft" we should just say "undocumented possession" so we don't hurt their feelings.


Don't you ever get tired of being a pathetic worthless asshole?
 
2013-02-13 06:14:50 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: A Dark Evil Omen: Look how stupid you are.

Are you going to argue that tax fraud is alright just so long as you are feeding your family?

We're not talking about murder here. There isn't levels of illegal immigrant. There are political refugees but in order to do that you need to appear, be counted and start the paperwork. Illegal immigrants are breaking the law every single day they are here.

look how stupid you are.


Actually, as I pointed out, I was "illegal" for about a year. No status. There are, in fact, levels, a large number of them. Even if you accept the super-recent and anomalous idea that international borders should be impenetrable, even the government doesn't agree with your piss-poor thinking.
 
2013-02-13 06:16:40 PM
Suckers, your corporate overloads like illegals. They will decide while you fight about it. They can pay these people $2.00 an hour.
 
2013-02-13 06:17:49 PM

johnryan51: Suckers, your corporate overloads like illegals. They will decide while you fight about it. They can pay these people $2.00 an hour.


Which is why some of us have been doing things like helping migrant farmers organize. Easy to think yourself above it all while you don't do anything about it, isn't it?
 
2013-02-13 06:19:52 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Actually, as I pointed out, I was "illegal" for about a year. No status. There are, in fact, levels, a large number of them. Even if you accept the super-recent and anomalous idea that international borders should be impenetrable, even the government doesn't agree with your piss-poor thinking.


No the government doesn't agree with me. That's the truth.

I wish we would just enact the exact same immigration and naturalization that Mexico has. You know, fair is fair.
 
2013-02-13 06:21:42 PM
I believe in St. Reagan. Give them complete amnesty. They will pay taxes and become productive citizens. All of our ancestors did the same( excluding native Americans).
 
2013-02-13 06:25:16 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: There is no more important factor to a person nor truly immutable fact than which side of a bullshiat imaginary line scribbled on a map they fell out of their mother on.


I get it, being born in Eritrea sucks.  You know what else sucks?  Not being a were-tyrannosaur.   Some day I will be able to fill out reasonable paperwork and be genetically modified to transform into a t-rex when the pale moon light strikes me.  We are not there yet.  Does that mean I get a free pass to steal fossils from museums, commandeer barium enemas and x-ray machines?  Right now the law says no.  The law is clearly wrong, and I've tried to fight it.  Oh how I've tried.  You can totally go to a law firm, hold a book full of laws at match-point and nothing, the other laws don't even care.  Total bullshiat.  What kind of unfeeling inanimate objects are books anyway?  Farking books, think they're so smart.  But that's the time we live in.  Some famous person said something about ...uh...I think it was Maslow's higher... feeds... something like I can't care about Mexicans until I can afford like 10 of them for a year, but then I can diet because the higher feeds... Man I drank a lot in sociology and psychology classes.  All those ologies, like... man, you can hang a pine air freshener from your ears and drink gin all day in college and people just think it's quirky fashion, we should address that.  Irish coffee is a studying drink, not gin.  So that's why I need more Mexicans, retroactively, so I can be a dinosaur.  Is any of this getting through to you?
 
2013-02-13 06:27:13 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: A Dark Evil Omen: Actually, as I pointed out, I was "illegal" for about a year. No status. There are, in fact, levels, a large number of them. Even if you accept the super-recent and anomalous idea that international borders should be impenetrable, even the government doesn't agree with your piss-poor thinking.

No the government doesn't agree with me. That's the truth.

I wish we would just enact the exact same immigration and naturalization that Mexico has. You know, fair is fair.


Oh, you mean where applying for permanent residency requires proof of solvency and around $200.00 in fees and is typically resolved within three months? Where anyone who has sufficient points can apply? Those laws? Are those the laws you're talking about? The 2011 law that Calderon passed that is the current law of the land? That one? Well, gee, we're in agreement, massively overhauling and liberalizing American immigration and bringing the costs way, way down would be a good step.
 
2013-02-13 06:30:17 PM
If an illegal alien kills someone should we call them an "Undocumented migrant stabby guy"? Don't want to offend them. They might get stabby.
 
2013-02-13 06:31:32 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: A Dark Evil Omen: Look how stupid you are.

Are you going to argue that tax fraud is alright just so long as you are feeding your family?

We're not talking about murder here. There isn't levels of illegal immigrant. There are political refugees but in order to do that you need to appear, be counted and start the paperwork. Illegal immigrants are breaking the law every single day they are here.

look how stupid you are.


Entering the United States without proper documentation is, I believe, a misdemeanor.  That's it.  It is not a crime being undocumented in the United States.

But keep on with your bad self, comparing them to thieves and tax cheats.  But keep in mind that every time you do, you strangle a little more life out of the dying GOP.

And you might want to get your facts straight before calling other people stupid.
 
2013-02-13 06:31:43 PM
And our wonderous county keeps equating all hispanics as illegal, apparently.
 
2013-02-13 06:33:27 PM

gilgigamesh: Entering the United States without proper documentation is, I believe, a misdemeanor. That's it. It is not a crime being undocumented in the United States.


I thought it was a civil infraction and that a subsequent re-entry after deportation is what triggers a misdemeanor.

Don't quote me on that one, though. I might be wrong.
 
2013-02-13 06:34:06 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Oh, you mean where applying for permanent residency requires proof of solvency and around $200.00 in fees and is typically resolved within three months? Where anyone who has sufficient points can apply? Those laws? Are those the laws you're talking about? The 2011 law that Calderon passed that is the current law of the land? That one? Well, gee, we're in agreement, massively overhauling and liberalizing American immigration and bringing the costs way, way down would be a good step.


that's right. plus the fact that you can't change residency status while in the country. I want people to come to the United States. Just do it right.
 
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