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(Bozeman Daily Chronicle)   Tough: trying to make it on a teacher's salary. C'mon, man: having your W-2 state you have four times the taxable income you actually do   (bozemandailychronicle.com) divider line 15
    More: Fail, taxable income, salary, teachers  
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12602 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Feb 2013 at 3:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-13 04:57:08 PM
2 votes:

MooseUpNorth: Wook: 3 months off

Three unpaid months off. And unless you're dug in (and can recycle last year's material for all classes), one of those months will be spent planning, gathering materials for the next year, setting up the classroom, and trying to get the deficiencies sorted out before the year starts on a bad foot.

Wook: I forgot to add that a 6.5 hour workday isn't soo bad.

6.5 paid hour workday. The unpaid part tacks on another hour or two, plus a few hours on the weekend. If there's a serious deficiency in the available curricular supplies, it can become an "all waking hour" thing.


You know what everyone else in the world who is salaried - that's a fixed periodic compensation for work or services - gets paid? Estimated per year. So if they're having salaries estimated per year then their choice not to spread that over the whole year is their own choice. If they don't have that choice then that's a talking point, but they aren't working on contract, they get benefits and they have a specific position.

I have an 8 hour work day, but I am on call 24x7. Some weeks I have put in over 100 hours, some weeks I fark around in Star Wars: TOR in the office because work is slow. I get paid a salary, which means they send me money as a retainer for my services.

So unless those 2 months in the summer count towards PTO, it is paid farking time off. That they choose to be financially irresponsible and not have their salaries spread over the course of that time like the rest of the world and therefore expect more for some reason is their own weird farking issue.
2013-02-14 01:44:13 AM
1 votes:

djRykoSuave: MooseUpNorth: Wook: 3 months off

Three unpaid months off. And unless you're dug in (and can recycle last year's material for all classes), one of those months will be spent planning, gathering materials for the next year, setting up the classroom, and trying to get the deficiencies sorted out before the year starts on a bad foot.

Wook: I forgot to add that a 6.5 hour workday isn't soo bad.

6.5 paid hour workday. The unpaid part tacks on another hour or two, plus a few hours on the weekend. If there's a serious deficiency in the available curricular supplies, it can become an "all waking hour" thing.

My teacher friends are required to be at school for 8 hours. They then go home and work for 3-4 hours grading and lesson planning. Weekends include 4 hours at minimum.

The whole hourly wage bit for teachers is a huge lie.


No, your teacher friends are lying to you. Sorry about your crappy liar friends.
2013-02-13 10:31:59 PM
1 votes:

foxyshadis: Why is it that within the last few years, there's a much more widespread hatred toward the public sector in general but very specifically teachers? Ten years ago they were practically being put on a pedestal by Dubya's No Child Left Behind reform, compared to now.


I think part of it is just knowledge.  A decade or two decades ago the "teachers are underpaid" was pretty much just accepted as fact.  Now that information is much more readily accessible other people aren't buying anymore.  The "I only make 45 grand a year, I'm underpaid" doesn't fly with someone that works 12 months a year that also makes 45K, doesn't get great benefits, and also has to do continuing education as much (if not more so) than teachers.

Besides, what other profession lowers standards when current standards can't be met?
2013-02-13 07:58:25 PM
1 votes:

Lochsteppe: No matter how many of these threads I read, I still just can't wrap my head around the amount of anger, resentment, and apparently even hatred some people have toward teachers.


I actually work for a school so I kind of have a frame of reference for this.  Teachers often (see this thread for examples) spout off things to show that they are underpaid (unpaid hours, continuing education, etc.) without considering that many, many professions have the same exact requirements.

Talk to anyone in IT or project management.  If you don't do continuing education and certifications, along with renewals and upkeep you eventually will stall your career.  Almost anyone who is salaried can tell you about 100 hour weeks.

Plus they do get benefits that far outpace most in the public sector.  Even if teachers do do school year prep in the summer (they do), it is still far more time off than most people get.  The pension plans are incredible.  Often they have free or reduced insurance rates.  It's not an easy job, and it is a necessary one, but I'd say pay is about where it should be.

I drop my kids off at school before I go to the one I work at.  Their teachers aren't there when I drop them off and they're not there when they get picked up, either.

I'd say they work probably about 5/6 as much time as a regular FTE employee (2 of 12 months off), at a salary that is generally comparable for experience, which means on an hourly rate they are getting paid more.
2013-02-13 05:23:16 PM
1 votes:

MooseUpNorth: StaleCoffee: Your corrections are just wrong.

I'm an untenured teacher. Thanks all the same, but I know when I'm paid and when I'm not.

Tenured teachers can choose (or not) to have part of their salary withheld and disbursed through the summer, but they're basically giving the province an interest-free loan to do it. In exactly the same way as people trying to engineer larger tax returns by having additional money withheld through the year.


So what you're telling me is that because you work as a teacher, the mechanics of salary that the rest of the world works by gets to be redefined for... some other reason that goes around in circles?

The point here is that if you want to consider yourself salaried, then you get to put that standard up against what everyone else uses. If you get paid an hourly wage then the discussion is moot and goes to hourly wage mechanics.

The point is that teachers, whether salaried or hourly, deal with the same issues as any other profession. You grade papers in the evening? Other professionals have things to do when they go home to retain their skill sets. Whether it's studying to maintain current knowledge bases or bringing their actual work home in a folder to wrap it up the next day.

Do I think teachers don't work hard? Not at all. I think they work as hard as anyone else. And get paid commensurate to that.
2013-02-13 05:10:52 PM
1 votes:

MooseUpNorth: Wook: 3 months off

Three unpaid months off. And unless you're dug in (and can recycle last year's material for all classes), one of those months will be spent planning, gathering materials for the next year, setting up the classroom, and trying to get the deficiencies sorted out before the year starts on a bad foot.

Wook: I forgot to add that a 6.5 hour workday isn't soo bad.

6.5 paid hour workday. The unpaid part tacks on another hour or two, plus a few hours on the weekend. If there's a serious deficiency in the available curricular supplies, it can become an "all waking hour" thing.



3 months off = 3 months off
6.5 hours a day is << than 10 hours a day (also factor in beating commute)

Dont give me that crap about grading papers and all this extra stuff teachers do, its still way less demaning than the private sector.  Like the rest of you Democrats, I'm surrounded by teachers (family, GF, Mom, etc.), say what you like, its contrary to reality.
2013-02-13 05:07:06 PM
1 votes:

Gone In 26 Minutes: Wook: Wook: Gulper Eel: Tough: trying to make it on a teacher's salary.

Everybody else in my family is or was a teacher or professional school employee - both parents, sister, uncle, and wife.

The money's okay, benefits very helpful compared to most, tenure's worth rather a lot in a touchy economy, and it still comes with a pension on top of whatever 403(b) you want to set up. I wouldn't call making it on teacher's compensation 'tough', especially after the first few years. The gig puts you solidly in the middle class in most places.

This is true.  Here in CA, if you divide your salary by the number of days you work, you're doing about as well as the typical engineer.  Factor in 10 "no quesions asked sick days", 3 months off, every obscure holiday off compared with working weekends, getting yelled at, experiencing abuse at all levels, realizing HR's sole function is to protect management from lawsuits, Teaching is actually a good career choice.

I'm going to push my daughter into Government employment.  20 years ago I would've stated otherwise but it's becoming clearer "who really works for who" in Society.

I forgot to add that a 6.5 hour workday isn't soo bad.  Sorry CA teachers, you guys have it very very easy comparatively speaking.

What about making lesson plans, grading work, extra help, having to deal with insufferable parents, having to deal with insufferable kids, always being at risk for a sexual misconduct allegation (especially if you're male) that can completely ruin your career if someone has it in for you, etc...


What about working grave shift, swing shift, being forced to work overtime with out pay, attending sexual harrassment courses stating I can be guilty of sexual harrassment without knowing it, 7pm meetings with Korea (after you've been sweating in a Lab for 10 hours), watching your friends and mentors get laid off every month for 10 years????  Life a biatch. I'd rather be coddled by the State granted I'd be expected to walk the Democratic party line...
2013-02-13 05:04:15 PM
1 votes:

StaleCoffee: That they choose to be financially irresponsible and not have their salaries spread over the course of that time like the rest of the world and therefore expect more for some reason is their own weird farking issue.


You sound mad. a) I wasn't biatching about how hard I have it. I was correcting Wook on two severe misconceptions. I don't have it made the way Wook thinks I do, but I don't consider myself under severe hardship either. b) I don't actually give a shiat how much you work or what you make. Nor am I attempting to politically interfere with your bargaining, collective or otherwise.
2013-02-13 04:34:52 PM
1 votes:

Gulper Eel: Tough: trying to make it on a teacher's salary.

Everybody else in my family is or was a teacher or professional school employee - both parents, sister, uncle, and wife.

The money's okay, benefits very helpful compared to most, tenure's worth rather a lot in a touchy economy, and it still comes with a pension on top of whatever 403(b) you want to set up. I wouldn't call making it on teacher's compensation 'tough', especially after the first few years. The gig puts you solidly in the middle class in most places.


This is true.  Here in CA, if you divide your salary by the number of days you work, you're doing about as well as the typical engineer.  Factor in 10 "no quesions asked sick days", 3 months off, every obscure holiday off compared with working weekends, getting yelled at, experiencing abuse at all levels, realizing HR's sole function is to protect management from lawsuits, Teaching is actually a good career choice.

I'm going to push my daughter into Government employment.  20 years ago I would've stated otherwise but it's becoming clearer "who really works for who" in Society.
2013-02-13 04:25:00 PM
1 votes:
Not only are teachers, in fact, well paid, they work 175 days a year and have 190 days off (most people work 260 days, and have 105 days off). They retire young, with full benefits and pension for life.

Best of all, no matter how useless they are, they are almost impossible to fire.
2013-02-13 04:20:29 PM
1 votes:
Tough trying to make it on a teacher's salary?  They aren't rich, but the lowest (LOWEST) average teacher salary by state is just shy of 40K.  This is higher than the average HOUSEHOLD income for the lowest state, which is just above 39K.

Yes, I have citations:

Teacher salaries by state:  http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state/
Household income by state: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/statemedian/

I'm saying teachers have it easy, are overpaid, or aren't valuable, but lets not pretend it is the lowest paid profession, not including summers off.
2013-02-13 04:08:22 PM
1 votes:
Tough: trying to make it on a teacher's salary.

Everybody else in my family is or was a teacher or professional school employee - both parents, sister, uncle, and wife.

The money's okay, benefits very helpful compared to most, tenure's worth rather a lot in a touchy economy, and it still comes with a pension on top of whatever 403(b) you want to set up. I wouldn't call making it on teacher's compensation 'tough', especially after the first few years. The gig puts you solidly in the middle class in most places.
2013-02-13 04:04:46 PM
1 votes:

ZAZ: From the original article:Before saving a final file, Andersen said a couple of the W-2s were spot-checked to make sure things were correct. They were because school officials were looking at the latest file, she said. But when they did a final save, unbeknownst to them, the software compressed four different files they had worked on.
"If we would have refreshed it, we would have had the latest file and it would have been correct."Can anybody make sense of this explanation?


"We farked up but are blaming it on software".
2013-02-13 04:00:03 PM
1 votes:
Fast forward to the next election: Tax records indicate our teachers are earning FOUR TIMES what they claim!

/my employer has now issued its third W2 because the finance people keep farking it up somehow
2013-02-13 03:55:59 PM
1 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: It's an Obamacare thing. They have to list the three months off as a benefit and every benefit has to have a monetary amount that can be taxable. Since those teachers could get a job that pays min wage they could quadruple the money they make each year.

'cause you know they are so underpaid.

/snark


You might be snarking, but you just know that the true believers will be along shortly to tell us all about how teachers have it so easy and how this one teacher they had was terrible and didn't give them enough gold stars and plus unions.
 
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