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(Network World)   Earth-buzzing asteroid worth big bucks: $195B if we could catch it   (networkworld.com) divider line 83
    More: Cool, asteroids, Earth, dsi, sky survey, rocket fuels, Deep Space Network, dragonflies, building materials  
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5873 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Feb 2013 at 3:18 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-13 07:09:13 PM  
i'll sell it to you for $5
paypal to me
 
2013-02-13 07:10:11 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: Arkanaut: I don't think we have any idea how much it costs to catch one yet.

And that's the beauty of it. If they can get the public to back this asteroid mining thing, it's a blank cheque for as many tax dollars as they can poorly justify.

My answer to them, is they should first finish what they started on the moon 60 years ago. If they successfully did it that long ago, it should be nothing to do it now. Also, we can't be encouraging this kind of ADD with space exploration, or they'll never stick with anything long enough to reach their goals.


The reality of it is that this was a PR report by the brand new company "Deep Space Industries".  They claim they are sending small probes to gather data in 2015 then eventually (2020) will sent larger probes and a 3d printer for metal to build stuff in space.  They say they will make money repairing communication satellites until space exploration picks up.  This is not a government project and your rant shows you are nothing more than a political hack.
 
2013-02-13 07:14:21 PM  

Stone Meadow: Prolly lots cheaper to put a station on the moon to mine what we need, then loft it to wherever it's needed with a rail gun.

[www.cosmicdiary.org image 600x376]


Sure, as long as you don't abuse the Loonies.
 
2013-02-13 07:23:11 PM  

way south: The Russians were no longer going to the moon and there was no military advantage to keeping men out there.


Having a military presence on the moon wouldn't just keep the pesky Russians away, but would also be the strategic 'high ground' over the entire Earth. There's a quote i wish i could find where some military suit from the time stressed its importance as such. The advantage is so obvious you can be sure the US military was acutely aware and had a keen interest in it.

Here's a quote from Project Horizon:

"The lunar outpost is required to develop and protect potential United States interests on the moon; to develop techniques in moon-based surveillance of the earth and space, in communications relay, and in operations on the surface of the moon; to serve as a base for exploration of the moon, for further exploration into space and for military operations on the moon if required; and to support scientific investigations on the moon."

All just mysterious forgotten about.
 
2013-02-13 07:24:21 PM  
Ahem, mysteriously.
 
2013-02-13 07:25:45 PM  
Whatever. We need more Geek links to read Drew!!!! This has been the last Geek link for HOURS....

:(
 
2013-02-13 07:26:57 PM  

KawaiiNot: Whatever. We need more Geek links to read Drew!!!! This has been the last Geek link for HOURS....

:(


Don't worry, there's sure to be another thrilling one about the vaporware iWatch or Windows 8 any minute now.
 
2013-02-13 07:40:22 PM  

satanorsanta: This is not a government project and your rant shows you are nothing more than a political hack.


I never mentioned any government or politics in that rant. I think you're projecting. I know it's not an official government program, but they're looking for funding, and somehow various media outlets keep hyping their idea, trying to get public support.

And it's still much easier to set up a moon base and mine there, than all this stuff about catching asteroids and mining them in space. Regardless of who's doing it.
 
2013-02-13 08:15:33 PM  

KarmicDisaster: It's just a rock and mixed up and mostly worthless elements. We have enough Iron here. The only thing that might make anything on it valuable is that it is "in space" but the delta V/energy needed to bring the stuff into Earth orbit where we could use it is greater than the energy required to launch the same stuff from the Earth. So it is pretty much worthless.


Uh oh, reality!
 
2013-02-13 08:22:31 PM  

steve_wmn: Cost to catch it $400 Billion, Retail value $195 Billion.  Net Profit: -$205 Billion. But the technology we develop to catch it will spin off into lots of wonderful things like better lacrosse sticks or something.


i133.photobucket.com
ISIS will take the job.
 
2013-02-13 09:30:11 PM  

This Looks Fun: Hmm...

FTA: "The asteroid... could be worth up to $195 billion in metals and propellant....if 2012 DA14 contains 5% recoverable water, that ... might be worth as much as $65 billion. If 10% of its mass... is easily recovered iron, nickel and other metals, that could be worth... an additional $130 billion....   It measures some 50 meters wide, neither very large nor very small, and is probably made of stone, as opposed to metal or ice."

Did they even read the article while they were writing it?


Exactly. More bullcrap from the space mining brigade. It's nice to have a dream, but the lies coming out of this bunch would make a junior gold miner CEO blush.

It's funny that they're talking about mining "ten percent of its mass" for metals: hematite is 50-70% iron. I guess these guys are thinking a silicaceous asteroid luckily is going to have a hematite intrusion?

Theory Of Null: I think mining it in orbit would be a bigger problem. Still decades or a century away from this happening.


Considering it's been bathed in cosmic rays for about 4 billion years, I bet that rock would have really refractory ore. Translation, it might be useless.

But in any case we only know how to mine and process ore using gravity, atmospheric pressure, earth's surface temperature, an absence of cosmic rays, and using earthlike chemistry like liquid water, liquid sulfuric acid, and liquid HCN.

If they have to ship crushed ore back to earth for processing, then it's less than useless - any ore we want we can get on earth for cheaper than it costs to drop it from orbit. If they want to process it in space, they are going to have to build a habitat to do it in, so that there are earthlike conditions to run the processes in. If they even want to break bits off the rock, then they're going to have to invent heavy-duty equipment that can run in microgravity at near-absolute zero with cosmic rays, and they're going to have to figure out a way to haul the rocks around in zero-g without them flying away. Even partial refining in space to get the mass down before shipping it back to earth will probably require running leach pits or autoclaves or smelters in space. None of which anyone knows how to do.

And then you want to build spaceships out of this? There's no such thing as an iron spaceship. How are you going to operate a steel plant in space? What's the blast furnace going to run on, can you do desulfurization in zero-g and 3 Kelvin, where are you going to roll and form the steel?

And does anyone really believe you can program replicating machines that will be able to build a mine, refinery, smelter, steel mill and fabrication plant? Even engineers have no clue how to do any of that - we work out all our mistakes in the field.

(By the way, I wonder where in space they're going to get the plastics for the wiring insulation, the insulating equipment enclosures, and so on. They going to use asbestos instead?)

The translation of all of this is, nobody in the mining scene has any worries that these people will accomplish anything at all in the next 50-100 years. In fact I haven't even seen any proof that these Derp Space Industries guys even have any comprehension of the engineering hurdles they face.

It really would be simpler to just grab an asteroid, say 1km across, land it gently somewhere nobody lives like Namibia, and mine it like you would a normal outcrop. Except asteroids are mostly silicon or iron, and we have more than enough of that junk on our planet already.

Tough poop, guys. No space for you.
 
2013-02-13 09:35:25 PM  

satanorsanta: The reality of it is that this was a PR report by the brand new company "Deep Space Industries".  They claim they are sending small probes to gather data in 2015 then eventually (2020) will sent larger probes and a 3d printer for metal to build stuff in space.


Really? A 3d printer! Ooh!

Do you stick raw iron ore in it and it magically produces fine alloys?
 
2013-02-13 09:41:14 PM  

Levarien: Stone Meadow: Prolly lots cheaper to put a station on the moon to mine what we need, then loft it to wherever it's needed with a rail gun.

[www.cosmicdiary.org image 600x376]

Sure, as long as you don't abuse the Loonies.


Hey, remember that Loonie who got himself arrested in some redneck southern State because it turned out he was black and married to several white women on the Moon? The backlash played a big role in Luna getting its independence.

/prolly really obscure
//unless you were into 1950's SF...
 
2013-02-13 10:02:12 PM  
No need to capture asteroids to mine them. Send robots to intercept the asteroid when it passes close to earth. Robots ride the asteroid while it orbits the sun mining the asteroid. Next time the asteroid passes close to earth the raw materials are ejected and intercepted by an orbital processing plant. The whole thing could be automated.

I wouldn't be surprised if a hundred years from now the bulk of our metals are obtained by robot mining operations.
 
2013-02-13 10:07:50 PM  

Stone Meadow: Levarien: Stone Meadow: Prolly lots cheaper to put a station on the moon to mine what we need, then loft it to wherever it's needed with a rail gun.

[www.cosmicdiary.org image 600x376]

Sure, as long as you don't abuse the Loonies.

Hey, remember that Loonie who got himself arrested in some redneck southern State because it turned out he was black and married to several white women on the Moon? The backlash played a big role in Luna getting its independence.

/prolly really obscure
//unless you were into 1950's SF...


I don't think Heinlein is anything close to obscure
 
2013-02-13 10:10:48 PM  
The mining craft would have to accelerate to 80,000 k/hr, and then turn all of that momentum around - including that of the mined ores. That's a lot of propellant even starting from earth or lunar orbit.
 
2013-02-13 10:24:06 PM  

R66YRobo: The value is based on the projected value of the materials as used to perform construction in space, which means a LOT of that cost is not inherent to the material themselves, but costs associated with launching earth materials into space.  (...)

All that said, I am excited to see what we can do with asteroid mining.  Short of a space elevator, space based fabrication of components is a necessary step to any significant future space exploration.


Big ole. this. Asteroids are basically made of the same stuff the Eurrf is, the point is you can make more space crap out of them. If it was cheap and easy to get thing into low Urrrrrrth orbit, mining would be mostly meaningless.
 
2013-02-13 10:27:44 PM  

Stone Meadow: /prolly really obscure


Not sure if serious.jpg

//unless you were into 1950's SF...

The book you're referring to was published in 1966.
 
2013-02-13 10:27:58 PM  

Ghastly: No need to capture asteroids to mine them. Send robots to intercept the asteroid when it passes close to earth. Robots ride the asteroid while it orbits the sun mining the asteroid. Next time the asteroid passes close to earth the raw materials are ejected and intercepted by an orbital processing plant. The whole thing could be automated.

I wouldn't be surprised if a hundred years from now the bulk of our metals are obtained by robot mining operations.


Yup...peak iron? What peak iron?

Short version? When we really get into space we'll have more materials to work with than we can exhaust for centuries.

miniflea: Stone Meadow: Levarien: Stone Meadow: Prolly lots cheaper to put a station on the moon to mine what we need, then loft it to wherever it's needed with a rail gun.

[www.cosmicdiary.org image 600x376]

Sure, as long as you don't abuse the Loonies.

Hey, remember that Loonie who got himself arrested in some redneck southern State because it turned out he was black and married to several white women on the Moon? The backlash played a big role in Luna getting its independence.

/prolly really obscure
//unless you were into 1950's SF...

I don't think Heinlein is anything close to obscure


Drat! Here I was thinking the young'uns had never read their Heinlein.

/mea culpa
 
2013-02-13 10:31:27 PM  

theorellior: Stone Meadow: /prolly really obscure

Not sure if serious.jpg

//unless you were into 1950's SF...

The book you're referring to was published in 1966.


Let me assure you I am only too pleased to be wrong in this case. :^)

/oh, and sorry for getting the dates wrong...I've read a lot of Heinlein
 
2013-02-13 10:39:53 PM  

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Considering it's been bathed in cosmic rays for about 4 billion years, I bet that rock would have really refractory ore. Translation, it might be useless.


How would cosmic rays make a nickel-iron asteroid refractory? Most cosmic rays would have a hard time penetrating more than a meter into the surface.

And it's my understanding that a metallic asteroid isn't metal ore. It's metal. Most prehistoric iron was, in fact, meteoric iron. There's no oxidation products because there's no free oxygen around. Also, there will be various siderophile metals included in the mix. The Earth's crust is poor in siderophiles because most of them sank to the core with the nickel-iron when everything was molten.

You sound somewhat knowledgeable, but there was another engineer-type in a recent asteroid-mining thread who was confident that all he would need is a simple automated setup and he could have ingots shooting back to Earth pretty quickly. I think I'll average your opinions together.
 
2013-02-13 10:40:41 PM  

Al!: This is what the internet has come to.  An article about a very specific and detailed field written by a person who likely has trouble using the toilet without assistance and edited by a classroom full of haddock.


I take issue, sir, with your disparaging of haddock in this manner.
 
2013-02-13 10:53:37 PM  
just haul in a white dwarf. They only have one diamond at the core, but its ten billion-trillion-trillion carats.
 
2013-02-13 11:14:08 PM  
www.tomswift.info

/knows how it's done
 
2013-02-13 11:22:43 PM  

Stone Meadow: Prolly lots cheaper to put a station on the moon to mine what we need, then loft it to wherever it's needed with a rail gun.


collider.com
 
2013-02-13 11:54:37 PM  

trickymoo: PsyLord: Just tell the bugs to lob one closer to us next time.

/yes, I would like to know more

Isnt this also applicable to Ender's Game?


I was thinking the Fithp might be responsible.
 
2013-02-14 12:01:16 AM  
China is ruled by technocrats, many of which have engineering degrees. They're smart enough to know the real reason why you would want to position a large rock in Lunar or HEO, and might just have a problem with it.
 
2013-02-14 12:53:28 AM  

AcneVulgaris: What could possibly go wrong?


This is an ad based on speculation built on a confidence game that cons you out of money?
 
2013-02-14 12:55:58 AM  

KawaiiNot: Whatever. We need more Geek links to read Drew!!!! This has been the last Geek link for HOURS....

:(


Don't force it, they'll push usa-today as "geek."
 
2013-02-14 08:19:04 AM  
It will happen some day.  And, really, what could possibly go wrong?

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-14 08:56:39 AM  
The only good asteroid is a dead asteroid...

upload.wikimedia.org

Don't wanna close my eyes, I don't wanna fall asleep 'Cause I'd miss you baby and I don't wanna miss a thing
 
2013-02-14 10:04:38 AM  

Kraftwerk Orange: Stone Meadow: Prolly lots cheaper to put a station on the moon to mine what we need, then loft it to wherever it's needed with a rail gun.

[collider.com image 600x400]


Hey, hey...my favorite low-budget sci-fi film. Cheers, mate!
 
2013-02-15 12:16:41 PM  

schnee: [www.tomswift.info image 275x419]

/knows how it's done


You just made my day.

/I collect the books.
 
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