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(Christian Science Monitor)   Barney may have misled children about Tyrannosaurus rex   (csmonitor.com) divider line 74
    More: Obvious, Tyrannosaurus rex, college kids, Cretaceous Period, dinosaurs, paleontology  
•       •       •

5071 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Feb 2013 at 1:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-13 12:44:15 PM
Dear Scientists: The moral of the story is "Get it right the first time".

I also hate to break it to you, but T-Rex's stance is extremely unimportant to most people. Especially people that are neither 4 years old nor parents of a 4 year old.

/parent of a 4 year old
//re-learning all about dinosaurs
//loving it.
 
2013-02-13 01:05:15 PM
Some toddler broke out into the Barney theme song yesterday on the subway. Before that I had never seen 75 people cringe so hard at the same time.  It looked like we all simultaneously took a bite out of of a lemon.
 
2013-02-13 01:19:37 PM

Krieghund: Dear Scientists: The moral of the story is "Get it right the first time".



i522.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-13 01:59:39 PM
www.csmonitor.com
B may be an accurate depicition of it running, but a physics prof or kinesthesiologist would tell you that there's no way that it just stood around with it's center of mass unsupported like that.
 
2013-02-13 02:00:51 PM
(And an English prof or Bob the Angry Flower would criticize my superfluous apostrophe, but that's another matter.)
 
2013-02-13 02:01:06 PM
I'm all for advancing knowledge and sweeping back the tides of ignorance, but who cares? I'm more concerned over the fact that most young people don't understand how compound interest works.
 
2013-02-13 02:03:16 PM
Huh, in the early 90s, I was crazy about Jurassic Park, so I'm pretty well-aware about the correct posture, and my younger sister was crazy about Barney. I should try this experiment on her.
 
2013-02-13 02:10:02 PM

Uzzah: [www.csmonitor.com image 380x253]
B may be an accurate depicition of it running, but a physics prof or kinesthesiologist would tell you that there's no way that it just stood around with it's center of mass unsupported like that.


I have to agree, that pic has it walking/running on it's tip toes how strong would those toes have to be to support a run like that?
 
2013-02-13 02:10:46 PM
A.I.R. has a good article about efforts to classify Barney. At work on a phone, but it's worth Googling.
 
2013-02-13 02:11:25 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
/Charles R Knight, 1942
 
2013-02-13 02:12:38 PM
Rarely is the question asked: is our childrens learning the ways dinosaurs did walked?
 
2013-02-13 02:19:28 PM

Krieghund: Dear Scientists: The moral of the story is "Get it right the first time".

I also hate to break it to you, but T-Rex's stance is extremely unimportant to most people. Especially people that are neither 4 years old nor parents of a 4 year old.

/parent of a 4 year old
//re-learning all about dinosaurs
//loving it.


I have to say that probably the best thing about being a parent is watching your kids discover the cool things you liked when you were a kid.

My 1.5 year old is into dump trucks and heavy equipment right now. So we drive by construction sites really slow and he points to all the machines and practices the names. I'm thinking airplanes are next. I can't wait for dinosaurs.
 
2013-02-13 02:24:01 PM
 
2013-02-13 02:29:09 PM
f.kulfoto.com
 
2013-02-13 02:31:48 PM
T-Rexes can not hug us?
T-Rexes can not sing?
T-Rexes would not love us for anything other than lunch?
 
2013-02-13 02:34:58 PM

Uzzah: [www.csmonitor.com image 380x253]
B may be an accurate depicition of it running, but a physics prof or kinesthesiologist would tell you that there's no way that it just stood around with it's center of mass unsupported like that.


Where then, are you contending that his center of mass is?  It sounds like you are looking at his big fat head as compared to his tail, all pivoting on his back legs, but you need to also account for the fact that roughly 30% of that mass that you are referring actually IS his hind legs, themselves.
 
2013-02-13 02:41:41 PM

Uzzah: [www.csmonitor.com image 380x253]
B may be an accurate depicition of it running, but a physics prof or kinesthesiologist would tell you that there's no way that it just stood around with it's center of mass unsupported like that.


Explain this, then.

farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2013-02-13 02:43:21 PM
Really? They're blaming Barney? They must be attention whoring because when I was a kid the T-Rex was been depicted upright in natural science museums and books, or at the lowest at a 45 degree angle.

Plus if you go and view a T-Rex skeleton you're still going to feel like its standing upright even if it's leaned down. Having to look up at the skull will give that impression.
 
2013-02-13 02:44:00 PM

cgraves67: My 1.5 year old is into dump trucks and heavy equipment right now. So we drive by construction sites really slow and he points to all the machines and practices the names. I'm thinking airplanes are next. I can't wait for dinosaurs.


My 7-year old daughter likes to watch shows on the Science Channel with me, from  How It's Madeto  How The Universe Works.  My 12-year old daughter, who says she wants to be a scientist when she grows up, watches reality shows.

/not sure what to make of this
 
2013-02-13 02:44:17 PM
I really want to say something like, "so what?" or "big deal", but actually this bugs me.
I haven't drawn an upright dinosaur probably since I was 8. It just looks stupid. Get it right, random college students!

And yes, those legs and toes were probably quite strong. And the tail accounted for a lot of the creature's mass (while the skull was mostly hollow). Keeping its mass balanced is probably why Tyrannosaurus had such small arms.
 
2013-02-13 02:46:23 PM
The Cornell team said bad dinosaur anatomy in pop culture, in forms ranging from chicken nuggets to cartoon characters, contributes to a "cultural inertia" that allows the public consciousness to cling to outdated science.

Yeah, it couldn't be bad science at all, now could it? The same bad science that taught me Marconi invented the radio, that the phases of the moon were from the shadow of the Earth, and that the seasons were caused by the difference in distance when the Earth was tilted towards or away from the sun. You know, the stuff in TEXTBOOKS.

Obviously, it's 100% pop culture's fault.
 
2013-02-13 02:50:46 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-13 02:55:09 PM

The Crepes of Wrath: cgraves67: My 1.5 year old is into dump trucks and heavy equipment right now. So we drive by construction sites really slow and he points to all the machines and practices the names. I'm thinking airplanes are next. I can't wait for dinosaurs.

My 7-year old daughter likes to watch shows on the Science Channel with me, from  How It's Madeto  How The Universe Works.  My 12-year old daughter, who says she wants to be a scientist when she grows up, watches reality shows.

/not sure what to make of this


Anthropoligist, sociologist, economist, game theorist, (experimental?) psychologist. There are possibilities.
 
2013-02-13 02:55:40 PM
mydailygiggle.files.wordpress.com
So long as this is still accurate...
 
2013-02-13 03:02:43 PM

Mikey1969: The Cornell team said bad dinosaur anatomy in pop culture, in forms ranging from chicken nuggets to cartoon characters, contributes to a "cultural inertia" that allows the public consciousness to cling to outdated science.

Yeah, it couldn't be bad science at all, now could it? The same bad science that taught me Marconi invented the radio, that the phases of the moon were from the shadow of the Earth, and that the seasons were caused by the difference in distance when the Earth was tilted towards or away from the sun. You know, the stuff in TEXTBOOKS.

Obviously, it's 100% pop culture's fault.


I'd be interested in seeing what textbook claimed the seasons were related to the distance of the sun or the phases of the moon were created by Earth's shadow. I don't even think they teach that in Texas.
 
2013-02-13 03:02:48 PM
guilt by association: [i.imgur.com image 380x253]

Duh, its B, A is too steep for Jesus to ride it like a horse
 
2013-02-13 03:07:01 PM
Oh, also, I appreciate Barney way more now as the parent of a toddler. A lot of kids shows, even on PBS, have a breakneck pace. Barney is sloooooow. Daniel Tiger's neighborhood is too (that's how they're continuing the legacy of Mister Rogers.) There are "better" kids shows, but those two seem least likely to induce ADD.
 
2013-02-13 03:09:03 PM

jonny_q: Anthropoligist, sociologist, economist, game theorist, (experimental?) psychologist. There are possibilities


The 12-year old also says she wants to be a model for a few years before becoming a scientist.

/yes, she watches Tyra Banks
 
2013-02-13 03:13:05 PM

TNel: Uzzah: [www.csmonitor.com image 380x253]
B may be an accurate depicition of it running, but a physics prof or kinesthesiologist would tell you that there's no way that it just stood around with it's center of mass unsupported like that.

I have to agree, that pic has it walking/running on it's tip toes how strong would those toes have to be to support a run like that?


Go outside. Look at a bird. Its a modern day theropod dinosaur. Look at its legs.

Also, the mass of the T-Rex's forward body and the mass of the tail basically acted like a giant lawyer-eating gyroscope, so the center of mass is offset from the feet.
 
2013-02-13 03:13:41 PM

ChrisDe: Mikey1969: The Cornell team said bad dinosaur anatomy in pop culture, in forms ranging from chicken nuggets to cartoon characters, contributes to a "cultural inertia" that allows the public consciousness to cling to outdated science.

Yeah, it couldn't be bad science at all, now could it? The same bad science that taught me Marconi invented the radio, that the phases of the moon were from the shadow of the Earth, and that the seasons were caused by the difference in distance when the Earth was tilted towards or away from the sun. You know, the stuff in TEXTBOOKS.

Obviously, it's 100% pop culture's fault.

I'd be interested in seeing what textbook claimed the seasons were related to the distance of the sun or the phases of the moon were created by Earth's shadow. I don't even think they teach that in Texas.


That's what they used to teach. It was bad enough that when I took Astronomy back in '01 he quizzed the class on that, and pretty much everyone got it wrong. His reason behind the quiz was to expose misinformation being taught in science. Same with the moon phases.
 
2013-02-13 03:15:41 PM

cgraves67: My 1.5 year old is into dump trucks and heavy equipment right now. So we drive by construction sites really slow and he points to all the machines and practices the names. I'm thinking airplanes are next. I can't wait for dinosaurs.


My 3 year old is into Thomas the Train and therefore all real life trains and associated equipment.  I'm honestly surprised he's still into it after a year and a half or so; we may be able to recycle the Thomas decorations from last year's birthday party.  We were downtown one day and there was an engine parked on the other side of the children's museum parking lot.  The driver waved at us and honked the horn.  If I had let him, I think my son would have climbed into a boxcar and lived the hobo life.
 
2013-02-13 03:19:31 PM

ClintonKun: TNel: Uzzah: [www.csmonitor.com image 380x253]
B may be an accurate depicition of it running, but a physics prof or kinesthesiologist would tell you that there's no way that it just stood around with it's center of mass unsupported like that.

I have to agree, that pic has it walking/running on it's tip toes how strong would those toes have to be to support a run like that?

Go outside. Look at a bird. Its a modern day theropod dinosaur. Look at its legs.

Also, the mass of the T-Rex's forward body and the mass of the tail basically acted like a giant lawyer-eating gyroscope, so the center of mass is offset from the feet.


Yeah after I posted that and thought for a bit the tail could easily be heavy enough to make it stable, still odd on the toes though but I'm sure they are big enough to support it.

I'm sure it's easier to draw one standing up than leaning over though.
 
2013-02-13 03:20:23 PM
I always thought Barney was a fat Velociraptor.
 
2013-02-13 03:26:22 PM
Funny, this stance business. I always figured that Barney misled children about T.rex by not eating them.
 
2013-02-13 03:28:57 PM
But the raptors methodically tested the electric fences, right?

i.imgur.com 

Well, that's a relief.
 
2013-02-13 03:29:51 PM

Millennium: Funny, this stance business. I always figured that Barney misled children about T.rex by not eating them.


I love you
You love me
If you don't move
I can't see
 
2013-02-13 03:36:38 PM

ChrisDe: Explain this, then.

[farm3.staticflickr.com image 427x640]


img819.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-13 03:43:55 PM
Krieghund

Dear Scientists: The moral of the story is "Get it right the first time".

^ This.

Yes blame some stupid stuffed animal on TV rather than taking responsibility for the decades of textbooks that show T-Rex upright - and still call Apatosaurus, Brontosaurus. A mistake that should have been corrected in 1903.
 
2013-02-13 03:49:03 PM
WordsnCollision:

4.bp.blogspot.com
/Charles R Knight, 1942

But... but...

www.csmonitor.com

B is in the foreground, and A is in the background, to the right!

I'M SO CONFUSED  o_O
 
2013-02-13 03:49:48 PM
s3-ec.buzzfed.com

www.deadcaterpillar.com
 
2013-02-13 04:18:45 PM
Meh.  Barney didn't create that misconception.  People were drawing T. Rex in an inaccurate upright posture as far back as Disney's 'Fantasia' (1940), if not earlier.

Science rarely gets it exactly right the first time.  That's why *real* science is an honest process of refinement, of continual re-examination and reduction of errors in the light of new data, new ideas, new tests, new review, etc.

/makes my blood boil when I see how the idjits and sellouts have turned entirely too much 'science' into corporate, political, or religious shills.
 
2013-02-13 04:20:34 PM
Well what about the Tyrannosaurus sex?
 
2013-02-13 04:36:50 PM

neversubmit: Well what about the Tyrannosaurus sex?


twistedsifter.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-13 04:44:20 PM

Mikey1969: The Cornell team said bad dinosaur anatomy in pop culture, in forms ranging from chicken nuggets to cartoon characters, contributes to a "cultural inertia" that allows the public consciousness to cling to outdated science.

Yeah, it couldn't be bad science at all, now could it? The same bad science that taught me Marconi invented the radio, that the phases of the moon were from the shadow of the Earth, and that the seasons were caused by the difference in distance when the Earth was tilted towards or away from the sun. You know, the stuff in TEXTBOOKS.

Obviously, it's 100% pop culture's fault.


Need to add "The moon does not rotate like the Earth becaasue we always see the same side"   Called my 2nd grade teacher out on that (even tried to demonstrate with models) and she called Mom in to see her.  Mom had no idea but trusted I already knew better than the teacher and backed me up.    I never understood why until I saw that Education majors took special "Science for Non-Science Majors" courses.
 
2013-02-13 05:07:20 PM

Uncontrolled_Jibe: Mikey1969: The Cornell team said bad dinosaur anatomy in pop culture, in forms ranging from chicken nuggets to cartoon characters, contributes to a "cultural inertia" that allows the public consciousness to cling to outdated science.

Yeah, it couldn't be bad science at all, now could it? The same bad science that taught me Marconi invented the radio, that the phases of the moon were from the shadow of the Earth, and that the seasons were caused by the difference in distance when the Earth was tilted towards or away from the sun. You know, the stuff in TEXTBOOKS.

Obviously, it's 100% pop culture's fault.

Need to add "The moon does not rotate like the Earth becaasue we always see the same side"   Called my 2nd grade teacher out on that (even tried to demonstrate with models) and she called Mom in to see her.  Mom had no idea but trusted I already knew better than the teacher and backed me up.    I never understood why until I saw that Education majors took special "Science for Non-Science Majors" courses.


You're right, i forgot that one... I quiz my kids now to make sure they aren't learning crap like this. It's amazing how long these incorrect things have been taught, even after being proved wrong.
 
2013-02-13 05:20:13 PM

Foxxinnia: Rarely is the question asked: is our childrens learning the ways dinosaurs did walked?


Boom boom shakalaka boomboom
 
2013-02-13 05:25:58 PM

Krieghund: Dear Scientists: The moral of the story is "Get it right the first time".

I also hate to break it to you, but T-Rex's stance is extremely unimportant to most people. Especially people that are neither 4 years old nor parents of a 4 year old.

/parent of a 4 year old
//re-learning all about dinosaurs
//loving it.


The same people who said "This is a brontosaurus," then "Oops, sorry - no such thing" are being picky?

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/09/166665795/forget-extinct-the-brontosau ru s-never-even-existed

And they only realized that the T. Rex walked that way around the same time that they finally straightened out the brontosaurus thing - in the 1970s. BUT WE STILL WERE TAUGHT THE WRONG THING.

They fark shiat up for a century, then say "Hey, we corrected it a while back, you dumbass!"

And they can have my brontosaurus when they pry it from my cold dead hands.
 
2013-02-13 05:27:23 PM

WordsnCollision: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 804x277]
/Charles R Knight, 1942


Well, I'll be damned. A T-Rex with cankles.
 
2013-02-13 05:39:01 PM

Mikey1969: The Cornell team said bad dinosaur anatomy in pop culture, in forms ranging from chicken nuggets to cartoon characters, contributes to a "cultural inertia" that allows the public consciousness to cling to outdated science.

Yeah, it couldn't be bad science at all, now could it? The same bad science that taught me Marconi invented the radio, that the phases of the moon were from the shadow of the Earth, and that the seasons were caused by the difference in distance when the Earth was tilted towards or away from the sun. You know, the stuff in TEXTBOOKS.


Textbooks are not "science", they are books, written by people of various levels of competence. Don't blame science for the failings of sloppy writers, ass-backwards school systems, or the political machinations of state boards of education.

Funny thing is, my science textbooks got the seasons, phases of the moon, etc... stuff right. Back in the late 1970's in California. I don't know what third-world shiathole you went to school in, but not all of us were cursed with crappy books.
 
2013-02-13 06:08:26 PM
i blame Godzilla.
 
2013-02-13 06:11:12 PM
 
2013-02-13 06:21:39 PM
i.chzbgr.com
 
2013-02-13 06:56:09 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Krieghund: Dear Scientists: The moral of the story is "Get it right the first time".

I also hate to break it to you, but T-Rex's stance is extremely unimportant to most people. Especially people that are neither 4 years old nor parents of a 4 year old.

/parent of a 4 year old
//re-learning all about dinosaurs
//loving it.

The same people who said "This is a brontosaurus," then "Oops, sorry - no such thing" are being picky?

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/09/166665795/forget-extinct-the-brontosau ru s-never-even-existed

And they only realized that the T. Rex walked that way around the same time that they finally straightened out the brontosaurus thing - in the 1970s. BUT WE STILL WERE TAUGHT THE WRONG THING.

They fark shiat up for a century, then say "Hey, we corrected it a while back, you dumbass!"

And they can have my brontosaurus when they pry it from my cold dead hands.


Interesting, but that doesn't mean that brontosauruses never existed. It means they were named twice. You may as well say that Venus never existed because it had a name before that one.
 
2013-02-13 07:06:53 PM
I, for one, do not support teaching children that dinosaurs are soft and harmless.
 
2013-02-13 07:20:01 PM
Same thing is true of gorillas.  Ask a kid to draw a gorlilla they'll draw a guy in a gorilla suit.
 
2013-02-13 07:24:10 PM
Barney teaches kids a lot worse things than bad dinosaur posture.
 
2013-02-13 07:53:16 PM
Ultimately, I don't get the point of learning about dinosaurs. They're long-extinct, they're not coming back, and we'd be much better served by teaching kids about modern animals that are just as cool.

I mean, the only thing learning about dinosaurs can lead to is a career in paleontology. Otherwise, it's not like understanding different classes of dinosaurs and their biology is going to lead to a career as a dinosaur veterinarian, dinosaur groomer, dinosaur trainer, or dinosaur butcher.

Teach them as a step toward teaching about their modern descendants, but don't focus whole semesters learning different dinosaur names, stats, and internals. It's ultimately useless to a modern human being. Hell, it would have been useless to ANY human being in ANY era, seeing as we never shared the planet with them. They were gone before we were even an idea in nature's view.

The only lesson I get from dinosaurs is that if there's a big-ass asteroid heading for Earth, we need to blow it up, knock it off course, or kiss our asses goodbye.
 
2013-02-13 07:54:35 PM
I love you, you love me!

sharetv.org
 
2013-02-13 07:57:48 PM
I dunno, her centers of gravity appear to be supported just fine by the bikini top.
Am I missing something?  Help me out, here.

farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2013-02-13 08:01:13 PM

brap: Some toddler broke out into the Barney theme song yesterday on the subway. Before that I had never seen 75 people cringe so hard at the same time.  It looked like we all simultaneously took a bite out of of a lemon.


If you join in on the "with a knick knack paddy whack give a dog a bone" a lot of the older passengers will sing along and the kid and his/her parents will sit there with an amazed look on their faces.
 
2013-02-13 08:02:30 PM

ZeroCorpse: Ultimately, I don't get the point of learning about dinosaurs. They're long-extinct, they're not coming back, and we'd be much better served by teaching kids about modern animals that are just as cool.

I mean, the only thing learning about dinosaurs can lead to is a career in paleontology. Otherwise, it's not like understanding different classes of dinosaurs and their biology is going to lead to a career as a dinosaur veterinarian, dinosaur groomer, dinosaur trainer, or dinosaur butcher.

Teach them as a step toward teaching about their modern descendants, but don't focus whole semesters learning different dinosaur names, stats, and internals. It's ultimately useless to a modern human being. Hell, it would have been useless to ANY human being in ANY era, seeing as we never shared the planet with them. They were gone before we were even an idea in nature's view.

The only lesson I get from dinosaurs is that if there's a big-ass asteroid heading for Earth, we need to blow it up, knock it off course, or kiss our asses goodbye.


A problem with your plan...
 
2013-02-13 08:23:54 PM

ZeroCorpse: Ultimately, I don't get the point of learning about dinosaurs. They're long-extinct, they're not coming back, and we'd be much better served by teaching kids about modern animals that are just as cool.


1. Dinosaurs are gateway science.
2. Most animals today are not as cool as dinosaurs.
 
2013-02-13 08:24:37 PM
And how many drew the beast with the feathers it likely sported?
 
2013-02-13 08:38:56 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
What is the Christian Science Monitor doing on the Science tab?
 
2013-02-13 09:44:40 PM
T-Rex was also most likely a scavenger that killed when the opportunity presented itself that rather than a killing machine goring everything in sight.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3112527.stm
 
2013-02-13 10:27:16 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 450x576]
What is the Christian Science Monitor doing on the Science tab?


Do you know anything about the Christian Science Monitor, or are you just having a kneejerk reaction to the name? I'm sad they don't have a print edition anymore.
 
2013-02-14 12:08:27 AM
I blame "college kids are stupid"

/not that I haven't worked on 3 different T. rex
//and 2 Daspletosaurus
///big headed theropods are lame anyway.
 
2013-02-14 12:34:11 AM
Wasn't the incorrect posture how they posed skeletons in museums at first as well?  That's far more likely as a cause than frigging Barney.
 
2013-02-14 02:35:22 AM

ZeroCorpse: it's not like understanding different classes of dinosaurs and their biology is going to lead to a career as a dinosaur veterinarian, dinosaur groomer, dinosaur trainer, or dinosaur butcher.


A man can dream, can't he?
images2.wikia.nocookie.net

/Getch fresh 'Raptor steaks here! Hot fresh dino delights!
 
2013-02-14 02:38:54 AM
WE AMS ASMARTER DAN COLIDGE KIDDS

Yes yes, eat your cookie. And don't blow milk bubbles.
 
2013-02-14 07:56:27 AM

Ego edo infantia cattus: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 450x576]
What is the Christian Science Monitor doing on the Science tab?


Never mind the dinosaurs, you appear to have been misled about the Christian Science Monitor
 
2013-02-14 11:17:30 AM
From the American Museum of Natural History in New York, if I'm not mistaken:

www.prehistoricstore.com
 
2013-02-14 11:30:32 AM

flaminio: From the American Museum of Natural History in New York, if I'm not mistaken:


Wow, those are really stubby arms
 
2013-02-14 01:48:11 PM

Parthenogenetic: WordsnCollision:

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 804x277]
/Charles R Knight, 1942

But... but...

[www.csmonitor.com image 380x253]

B is in the foreground, and A is in the background, to the right!

I'M SO CONFUSED  o_O


Maybe it's pooping.
 
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