swankywanky: Publikwerks: Now imagine their fat.

their fat what???  wait...no, don't bother

/yes, I know you already auto-corrected, sorry, but had to
//very funny, BTW!

In fact, it works either way.

/Both should come with complimentary bleach, however.

PreMortem: I find it interesting that most think that anything different from a monogamous relationship must be a fabrication. It's almost as if they are shut-ins who never meet people with different perspectives on life and sexuality.


It's probably not that people doubt that these different types of relationships exist, it's that a parent of someone in one of those relationships would write a Dear Abby letter about it.


Also:
"Mydaughters are attractive young women, both doing well in their professional careers. "Melanie," who is 27, is married to "Sam," an extremely attractive and successful man. "

So, the writer is a Fark filter.

Wonder what the girls and dad would say if she asked to join in.

Really no one posted this yet?

Lucidz: Jim_Callahan: Galloping Galoshes: Perhaps cgraves67 has a better handle on what drives people than you.  Romance is a modern concept.  Procreation and ensuring the success of offspring are instinctive.  I'd bet on the more ingrained behavior.

Human biology is entirely predicated on the assumption that both males and females of our species would have multiple partners.  Certain major elements of male biology are based on the assumption that females will have had another partner within hours or minutes of their current one.

Biology doesn't back monogamy at all, which is what I think you're implying if I'm interpreting the chain of quotes correctly.

What a load of manure and an excuse for bad behavior   As civilization expands, the needs and rules of the old ways diminish. Cavemen used to club women over the head and rape them.  Romans used slaves as sex toys or modes of vicious entertainment.  The concept of a biological need for procreation is based solely on the need to perpetuate the species and preservation of human kind.  So unless you're bare backing every ho-bag you roofy into getting horizontal, you're still denying the so called base desires of your innate "biology".  

Besides which, with overpopulation, increased diversity among races, etc, there is no need for a biological multi-partner sexual drive.  My assumption is that every time you have a "base instinct" to stone a man to death for being a douchenozzle does not cause you to do so, as society, ya know, frowns on it...

So take your stupid weak ass argument and go justify it somewhere else.  You want to be a slut, do so.  Don't pretend something deep in your genetic code is driving you to spread your man-seed to the interior of inexpensive truck stop condoms.

It doesn't even have to go that far since "Biology" backs monogamy in a tribal setting a lot more rationally than it does promiscuity. I'm sure some dimwit will bark some nonsense about genetic diversity. Yeah those 6 guys in the tribe are diverse, and when she constantly farks them all their sperm suit up and do battle over her egg, and in order for her to give birth that sperm has to fight a constant defensive battle against all comers.

Haha I said all comers.

Anyway, no, the biology thing is reserved for people who don't understand biology, society or just want to fark around on their SO's.

PreMortem: To each their own. Off to the bar for my midday drunk and butt dialing.

The term "butt dialing" always has me envisioning a woman who's fetish involves having her butt "dialed" like a rotary phone...and then I realize how old she would have to be to know what a rotary phone is. Then I sadly put away the Kleenex box and the hand lotion and try to cheer myself up by yelling at the kids on my lawn.

Crapinoleum: spiderpaz: m00: El Pachuco: Yeah, no.  While there are a near-infinite number of women in the world and in theory anything's possible, I've so far only seen women be both extremely protective of, and extremely competitive with, their female siblings.  This is about as likely as having a three-way with twin sisters, vs a three-way with two unrelated lady types.

Also, this (NSFW),

Actually my college room-mate was dating this girl, and cheating on her with her identical twin. I was like... "what's the point" but he swore there was a difference.

ROFL!!  omg, that's too damn funny.  The grass is always greener never applied to vagina so well.

A green vagina?  Eeewww!

You've never had the special on St. Patrick's Day?

Zasteva: Also, what makes you think that procreation and success of offspring are challenged by this circumstance? Biologically speaking, doesn't it maximize both the male and female outcome for reproduction and success of offspring?

The females have to compete for the benefit/protection of the male, limiting the chance of success for their offspring.

so many stories that screams "Pictures needed" in here.

But alas, thread disappoints.

spiderpaz: m00: El Pachuco: Yeah, no.  While there are a near-infinite number of women in the world and in theory anything's possible, I've so far only seen women be both extremely protective of, and extremely competitive with, their female siblings.  This is about as likely as having a three-way with twin sisters, vs a three-way with two unrelated lady types.

Also, this (NSFW),

Actually my college room-mate was dating this girl, and cheating on her with her identical twin. I was like... "what's the point" but he swore there was a difference.

ROFL!!  omg, that's too damn funny.  The grass is always greener never applied to vagina so well.

Read Asimov (somewhere in the "Foundation" trilogy) about " . . .the difference between the slippery friction of two mucous membranes".

/No, not a pretty image, is it?

relcec: the only reason I think it's fake is it is on Dear Abby, not that it doesn't happen.

Quoted for truth.

Crapinoleum: spiderpaz: m00: El Pachuco: Yeah, no.  While there are a near-infinite number of women in the world and in theory anything's possible, I've so far only seen women be both extremely protective of, and extremely competitive with, their female siblings.  This is about as likely as having a three-way with twin sisters, vs a three-way with two unrelated lady types.

Also, this (NSFW),

Actually my college room-mate was dating this girl, and cheating on her with her identical twin. I was like... "what's the point" but he swore there was a difference.

ROFL!!  omg, that's too damn funny.  The grass is always greener never applied to vagina so well.

A green vagina?  Eeewww!

I know, right? Who'd ever want any of that?:

Lucidz: The wife:
[thestreetsarecalling.files.wordpress.com image 590x885]

The sister:
[images.sodahead.com image 350x262]

The Husband:
[t1.gstatic.com image 276x183]

The Mother:
[t1.gstatic.com image 280x180]

You are not a nice person.

Trivia Jockey: Abby's response to this should have simply been "Stop lying".

Abby's response to this should have been: "Why are you asking me?  I'm dead and trying to get some shuteye here.  Please close the crypt door on the way out."

Ok...my advice on the assumption it's actually a legit story.

I think perhaps the sisters' father fooled around...a lot and over a period of years.  Probably a lot more than mom knew, and the daughters became aware of it at some point.  He was likely a good guy, loved his daughters and treated them well.  The marriage was very rocky, lots of fights for obvious reasons.   "My current husband" implies that mom eventually divorced their dad too, perhaps because she finally caught him cheating, and she later remarried.  New husband is an ok guy, but probably spent too much time staring at the daughters while they were in the pool.

That explains the "current" husband's remarks (he's all but saying "I'd like to hit it too" though he probably wouldn't), the daughters' casual attitude toward sex, why the divorced daughter had problems staying faithful in her marriage, and why the daughter that is married seems oddly ok with her husband banging her sister (convinced herself it was ok, better he get it from someone she knows to be disease free, he's a good provider otherwise, etc., etc.).  As for the guy banging both sisters...he's no saint.  How he manages to justify what he's doing as ok is anyone's guess, but truth be told the married daughter picked one that was like dear old dad.

This will absolutely not end well.  I have serious doubts that divorced daughter will ever find a guy to settle down with and she'll be back time and again long term for some brother-in-law action.  Married daughter will get jealous once she has kids and I can foresee a time the two daughters aren't on speaking terms.  Life isn't a Robert Heinlein novel and Lazarus Long doesn't live here or in the future.  Time for divorced daughter to move on and get her own place...say three states over.

Dragonflew: Someone should remind Abby that she died last month.

Dear Abby, I have a secret, I write letters to dead people.

Ned Stark: Good. One less jerkwad to cook for on holidays. One less birthday to remember.

The only thing better than your kids farking the same person is if they fark each other.

Heh. "Ned Stark"

traylor: The Italian Farker: Why is it BS? My wife's sister moved in with us when their parents died. She was 17 at the time but on her 18th birthday my wife wanted me to have sex with her so she could enjoy it without getting pregnant. Went on for about 2 years until she met someone responsible. Both couples are still together after 20+ years

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 250x250]

Seconded.  I've known (in both senses) loads of swingers/"open marriage" folks in my time.  I check up on folks every couple of years, and every one of them is divorced within 5 years of being involved.

Every.
One.
Of.
Them.

/That's not to say there aren't very persuasive arguments for the benefits of non-monogamous relationships
//Very persuasive, but for the fact they don't work.

Lucidz: Drakuun: Abby's comments, The Mom's concern, The Butt hurt 'that never happened' crowd..

All taking their own relationship frustrations out on people that have what they
only dream of, but keep themselves from ever really experiencing.

Too see so many people selling themselves short of what Love is capable of....
Instead focusing on jealousy, and insisting that everyone be as miserable as them
holding up some silly notion of morality when it comes to Sex and Sexuality.

It's Sad... It really is.

Love yourself, Be open with yourself, on then can you really love others.

If you can do this ....You'll be surprised what can happen.

The problem is, if you stick around fark long enough... You get these people who come and go, sometimes TF'ers, who claim to have these "insane experiences".  They have a great marriage, they swing, they have sex with beautiful 20 year olds, etc.  They are living the dream.  Of course they never have any pictures of themselves, or of their "conquests" because "they like their privacy".  (That doesn't stop them from constantly postbombing penthouse forum ready stories.)

Eventually some determined person will track down who these people are and post pictures.  Without fail they are hideous wildebeasts who wouldn't get into any club where the doorman wasn't blind.  Also without fail, as soon as the pics are posted and the reality comes out, someone gets banned and the fatty swingers with the exotic lifestyle just... Dissappear.

Or someone gets beaten up and post pics and the husband buys them a laptop to shut them up... (Went old school there)

My advice for the Wildebeests of Fark.

I learned this in my late teenaged years.

See, I was ugly. And I do mean ugly. Oogly. Make a statue cry, stop a clock, make water curdle, the sort of ugly that could make a sea hag vomit.

It is very important that you get a motorcycle. (Which will probably make you uglier in the long run) Get a motorcycle and become the silent type. SAY NOTHING! If you say nothing around a girl, the vacuum of sound will cause all of the usual girly insanity to take place in between their ears. Girls have to be talked to in order for them to validate their own existence. If you say nothing, nothing at all, girls will begin to imagine all sorts of conversations between you and them. If they talk to you, give a non-committal grunt. Eventually, they will construct elaborate fantasy conversations of all of the things they would wish for you to say, have arguments with you, and romantic gushing apologies, all of which never actually happen, but because of the silence, they'll just babble on inside their own skull with all of the things they think they need to hear.

Motorcycles and girls are awesome. There is nothing, and I do mean nothing, quite like feeling two perky points of pressure stabbing into your back and two arms clinched tight around you as you goose the gas.

If by some odd chance you feel three perky points of pressure poking into you, two in the back and one in the backside, IT'S A TRAP! Dump your passenger now and consume copious amounts of alcohol to kill any recently formed braincells that might contain the memory.

After a few hours of riding with you on said motorcycle, the girl already knows you in a biblical sense, and, as an extra added bonus, are properly vibrated and ready to go. Score! After all of the things she thinks she heard you say, and the hours of stimulation to her girly bits, it doesn't matter if you are ugly like a constipated honey badger... You are gettin' some. And how. Bow chicka bow.

cmraman: //Yeah, I'm a slut. What about it?

Don't need your stories.  Put your wife on.

Galloping Galoshes: Perhaps cgraves67 has a better handle on what drives people than you.  Romance is a modern concept.  Procreation and ensuring the success of offspring are instinctive.  I'd bet on the more ingrained behavior.

Jim_Callahan:Human biology is entirely predicated on the assumption that both males and females of our species would have multiple partners.  Certain major elements of male biology are based on the assumption that females will have had another partner within hours or minutes of their current one.

Biology doesn't back monogamy at all, which is what I think you're implying if I'm interpreting the chain of quotes correctly.

Lucidz: What a load of manure and an excuse for bad behavior   As civilization expands, the needs and rules of the old ways diminish. Cavemen used to club women over the head and rape them.  Romans used slaves as sex toys or modes of vicious entertainment.  The concept of a biological need for procreation is based solely on the need to perpetuate the species and preservation of human kind.  So unless you're bare backing every ho-bag you roofy into getting horizontal, you're still denying the so called base desires of your innate "biology".

I think you misunderstood the argument. Galloping was saying that biological urges drive people to monogamy. Jim was saying that actually biological urges drive people to against monogamy. He wasn't arguing for or against their behavior.

That said, why is the behavior of the sisters and husband in the story "bad"? Or uncivilized, for that matter?

Because I would agree with you about the changes in human behavior due to civilization, but I'd point out that those examples lead generally toward greater freedom, especially for women.

How does "2 sisters having sex with one of their husbands is bad" equate to greater freedom? How does it reflect a more civilized point of view?

Lucidz:Besides which, with overpopulation, increased diversity among races, etc, there is no need for a biological multi-partner sexual drive.  My assumption is that every time you have a "base instinct" to stone a man to death for being a douchenozzle does not cause you to do so, as society, ya know, frowns on it...

Are you trying to draw connect stoning people to death to his point about biological urges as a way to show that both are uncivilized?

I'm pretty sure stoning as a punishment was a creation of earlier civilization, not a biological drive. And yes, I think most of us will agree that civilization has moved past that. In your case, as far as non-violent condemnation of people who are having sex outside of their marriage, rather than actually stoning them. But some of us would like to move even further; all the way to "who cares it's their business best of luck to them".

So take your stupid weak ass argument and go justify it somewhere else.  You want to be a slut, do so.  Don't pretend something deep in your genetic code is driving you to spread your man-seed to the interior of inexpensive truck stop condoms.

Hmm... rants and personal insults really are the epitome of civilized behavior, aren't they?

Back in my early 20's I dated a girl that I worked with.  Pretty hot, nice ass, the whole 9.  Oh, and she had TONS of daddy issues (what can I say?  Don't judge me!).

Anyways, we were driving home from work one day (we worked the pre-load shift at UPS) and she asks out of the blue "Ever seen two sisters fark around?", to which I nearly ran off the exit ramp into the grass.  I said no, and she responded "Well... do you want to?" to which I responded "Does a bear shiat in the woods?"

Anyways, flash forward 3 weeks, I haven't heard anything more about it and had accepted that it would never happen (since that's not really a tree you bark up if you want to maintain a relationship, even if she is as farked up as she was).  We start drinking Bud Ice at her house because we're classy as Hell when her sister walks in.  She asks her sister if she wants to drink and so she joins us.  After five minutes, she goes "to the bathroom" and comes back out wearing only a plaid skirt and tank top with no bra and proceeds to pour her beer on her foobies and asks her sister to lick them clean.

Long story short, after 2 contests to see who had the... ahem... deepest throat... along with other ... games... I asked her in the middle of the throes of "love" if her sister could wear the pearl necklace I was about to buy.  Apparently  THIS was the straw that broke the camels back, because she spent the next 30 minutes sobbing hysterically.  So after trying to figure out what was going on, I finished my job, pulled her off and bought her the necklace and then rolled over and went to bed with a smile on my face.

We broke up 5 days later.

/would do it again in a heartbeat

The Italian Farker: Why is it BS? My wife's sister moved in with us when their parents died. She was 17 at the time but on her 18th birthday my wife wanted me to have sex with her so she could enjoy it without getting pregnant. Went on for about 2 years until she met someone responsible. Both couples are still together after 20+ years

Ok, maybe she didn't SAY she wanted me to bang her sister, but you could totally see it in the way she cooked scrambled eggs at for breakfast that that's what she was saying.

Veteran of the Cola Wars: SAY NOTHING! If you say nothing around a girl, the vacuum of sound will cause all of the usual girly insanity to take place in between their ears. Girls have to be talked to in order for them to validate their own existence. If you say nothing, nothing at all, girls will begin to imagine all sorts of conversations between you and them. If they talk to you, give a non-committal grunt. Eventually, they will construct elaborate fantasy conversations of all of the things they would wish for you to say, have arguments with you, and romantic gushing apologies, all of which never actually happen, but because of the silence, they'll just babble on inside their own skull with all of the things they think they need to hear.

Sad, but so very true.

FuryOfFirestorm: Crapinoleum: spiderpaz: m00: El Pachuco: Yeah, no.  While there are a near-infinite number of women in the world and in theory anything's possible, I've so far only seen women be both extremely protective of, and extremely competitive with, their female siblings.  This is about as likely as having a three-way with twin sisters, vs a three-way with two unrelated lady types.

Also, this (NSFW),

Actually my college room-mate was dating this girl, and cheating on her with her identical twin. I was like... "what's the point" but he swore there was a difference.

ROFL!!  omg, that's too damn funny.  The grass is always greener never applied to vagina so well.

A green vagina?  Eeewww!

I know, right? Who'd ever want any of that?:

Regardless, its still pink in the middle

traylor: The Italian Farker: Why is it BS? My wife's sister moved in with us when their parents died. She was 17 at the time but on her 18th birthday my wife wanted me to have sex with her so she could enjoy it without getting pregnant. Went on for about 2 years until she met someone responsible. Both couples are still together after 20+ years

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 250x250]

You're absolutely right; those fambly valyers are all BS (NSFW)

bismark189: Back in my early 20's I dated a girl that I worked with.  Pretty hot, nice ass, the whole 9.  Oh, and she had TONS of daddy issues (what can I say?  Don't judge me!).

Anyways, we were driving home from work one day (we worked the pre-load shift at UPS) and she asks out of the blue "Ever seen two sisters fark around?", to which I nearly ran off the exit ramp into the grass.  I said no, and she responded "Well... do you want to?" to which I responded "Does a bear shiat in the woods?"

Anyways, flash forward 3 weeks, I haven't heard anything more about it and had accepted that it would never happen (since that's not really a tree you bark up if you want to maintain a relationship, even if she is as farked up as she was).  We start drinking Bud Ice at her house because we're classy as Hell when her sister walks in.  She asks her sister if she wants to drink and so she joins us.  After five minutes, she goes "to the bathroom" and comes back out wearing only a plaid skirt and tank top with no bra and proceeds to pour her beer on her foobies and asks her sister to lick them clean.

Long story short, after 2 contests to see who had the... ahem... deepest throat... along with other ... games... I asked her in the middle of the throes of "love" if her sister could wear the pearl necklace I was about to buy.  Apparently  THIS was the straw that broke the camels back, because she spent the next 30 minutes sobbing hysterically.  So after trying to figure out what was going on, I finished my job, pulled her off and bought her the necklace and then rolled over and went to bed with a smile on my face.

We broke up 5 days later.

/would do it again in a heartbeat

Now THIS is a completely plausible scenario.

"Melanie," who is 27, is married to "Sam," an extremelyattractive and successful man. "

We get it, he's black!

noitsnot: Jim_Callahan: Human biology is entirely predicated on the assumption that both males and females of our species would have multiple partners.  Certain major elements of male biology are based on the assumption that females will have had another partner within hours or minutes of their current one.


You want to show some references on that?  For humans, not some monkey species you read about.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/story?id=1469078

Open marriage here, been going 12 years strong and never happier.  Have to set the rules before the game starts, and everybody has to follow them.  Ours are simple.  No lying.  Partner has veto power, always.  Real life and fun life 100% separate - ie if you want to be friends with a buddy then the buddying stops, and you can't buddy up with a friend.  Related to the study above - both of my kids were conceived a couple of hours after (protected) fun outside the home.

As for this Dear Abby, total BS.  NO WAY anyone I know in this lifestyle would do family, at any time.  It's possible that a guy is doing both sisters and they know about it, but someone is getting shafted in the deal and doesn't really want it.

As a happily married man who is part of a poly quad (my girlfriend and her husband live with me and my wife), I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.

/yes, this stuff really does happen
//all under 30, good looking, and nobody is fat

goochmeister42: all under 30, good looking, and nobody is fat

And that's why you don't know it's doomed.

Galloping Galoshes: Zasteva: Also, what makes you think that procreation and success of offspring are challenged by this circumstance? Biologically speaking, doesn't it maximize both the male and female outcome for reproduction and success of offspring?

The females have to compete for the benefit/protection of the male, limiting the chance of success for their offspring.

If the females of our species were unable to work or protect themselves then that would be correct. Fortunately, that's simply not true in our society:

- the male role of "protector" and "provider" are not exclusively male roles anymore, and women have nearly equal ability to take those roles in our society.
- 3 providers have more wage earning potential than 2
- 3 protectors are better able to divide up child care than 2

/some farkettes may want a word with you

StaleCoffee: "Biology" backs monogamy in a tribal setting a lot more rationally than it does promiscuity.

How so? If you're living as a group, as primitive humans did, what advantage does paternity certainty confer?

Jim_Callahan: Open marriage is fine, actually pretty well within established western norms.  The tradition goes back basically forever, though in the early US and contemporary western Europe the second woman would be called a mistress the first wife not being particularly disturbed is not terribly unusual.

What  is  terrifying, unnatural, and against all just laws of god and man, is talking to your parents or step-parents about your sex life after you're married.  Their opportunities and ability to give you any kind of meaningful advice ended long, long ago when you were a teenager.

//Albeit, they could also be lying to her.  That actually sounds like the kind of silly running gag I'd play on a meddling relative if I could get a girlfriend to go along with it.

It sounds to me like Mom is a snoop and found out, and the daughter was like "oh holy fark, now how the hell do I explain this to someone who can't even use the internet...okay, say it's less likely to make him cheat, old people think that's still a big concern, right?".

/If I were in a poly relationship, that would probably be about my level of grace there.
//But then, social awkwardness is why, were I in a poly relationship, I'd ask the others for advice\a ridiculous and hilarious cover story.

Veteran of the Cola Wars: Lucidz: Drakuun: Abby's comments, The Mom's concern, The Butt hurt 'that never happened' crowd..

All taking their own relationship frustrations out on people that have what they
only dream of, but keep themselves from ever really experiencing.

Too see so many people selling themselves short of what Love is capable of....
Instead focusing on jealousy, and insisting that everyone be as miserable as them
holding up some silly notion of morality when it comes to Sex and Sexuality.

It's Sad... It really is.

Love yourself, Be open with yourself, on then can you really love others.

If you can do this ....You'll be surprised what can happen.

The problem is, if you stick around fark long enough... You get these people who come and go, sometimes TF'ers, who claim to have these "insane experiences".  They have a great marriage, they swing, they have sex with beautiful 20 year olds, etc.  They are living the dream.  Of course they never have any pictures of themselves, or of their "conquests" because "they like their privacy".  (That doesn't stop them from constantly postbombing penthouse forum ready stories.)

Eventually some determined person will track down who these people are and post pictures.  Without fail they are hideous wildebeasts who wouldn't get into any club where the doorman wasn't blind.  Also without fail, as soon as the pics are posted and the reality comes out, someone gets banned and the fatty swingers with the exotic lifestyle just... Dissappear.

Or someone gets beaten up and post pics and the husband buys them a laptop to shut them up... (Went old school there)

My advice for the Wildebeests of Fark.

I learned this in my late teenaged years.

See, I was ugly. And I do mean ugly. Oogly. Make a statue cry, stop a clock, make water curdle, the sort of ugly that could make a sea hag vomit.

It is very important that you get a motorcycle. (Which will probably make you uglier in the long run) Get a motorcycle and become the silent type. SAY NOTHING! If y ...

He speaks the truth.  Buying a motorcycle was worth every penny.

cmraman: She's not Fark fantasy material. She's 50, and she's not a supermodel. Oh, and unlike the girls most Farkers date, she's real...

Whose shoulder is she sitting on?

ciberido: ChaoticLimbs: Fake but harmless even if real. Many people, myself included, do not see sex in the same way that our parents do. Deceit is evil, casual sex is not. I've always been surprised how needlessly simplistic people can be.

Sex is not evil, it's ambivalent to morality, in the way that flavor is not related to obesity. Evil exists when people exert control over situations and people that they have no authority or consent to exert. They do it through manipulation and deception. Absent these two things, sex is as innocent as a back massage or a tennis match.

I'm currently reading "The righteous mind : why good people are divided by politics and religion" by Jonathan Haidt.  He argues that moral systems are based on six foundations (care, Fairness, liberty, loyalty, respect, and sanctity), and that will all morality systems are based on these six foundations, different morality systems stress some foundations more than others.  One of the big ideas in his book is that liberal Westeral morality puts great emphasis on the care/harm foundation but almost no emphasis on all on sanctity.

I'm pretty sure he would say that your argument was a good example of putting lots of emphasis on the care/harm foundation and none at all on the concept of sanctity.

Anyway, you might want to give it a read if you have the time.

I'll read it, but I'm already aware that Haidt seems to believe that old ideas persisted because they were good. I personally believe that certain ideas persist because people tend to be small, tend to make easy choices instead of difficult ones, and tend to see their world through a lens of selfishness.
What if you love someone so much that if they were going to be happier without you that you would assist them in moving beyond you? What if you could do emotional self-harm to further the happiness of the one you love, if that was what was required? These are contemplations that most adults are incapable of but are not so difficult for someone who really cares about another person above themself. I have met several people who are capable of this kind of caring, but most people I've met are ignorant, self-serving savages who cannot have a thing if others may also have it, for somehow in their minds they lose ownership of anything that's still available. They think thoughts like "how can I get her to sleep with me" instead of "how can I be the person others want to sleep with?"

A friend once asked me how he could get his wife to swing. I told him that you can't. Life is not, should not be, about getting people to do anything. It happens or it doesn't happen, and we can't exert force to move situations or people closer to what we want, because that which we want shouldn't be a what, at all. My wife and I aren't swinging at the moment, primarily because we're into each other right now and simply aren't interested in expansion. But I don't see that as a question of morality. I won't lie to my wife, won't omit information she needs to make her informed decisions. She has the right to know the character of our relationship at all times and if that character changes, she should be the first to know.

People can write whatever apologetics they like for the exclusivity based relationship, but a thinking person ought to be able to discern what works for them without referring to 1st century savages who slavishly feed their various sensory inputs without stopping to consider what a relationship could be if they had the strength to risk their heart by not pressuring others to serve them. Sex is such a tiny part of an intimate partnership, and there's nothing a partnership can accomplish that a committee cannot. I will acknowledge that the average person is not capable of it.  But tradition? Slavery is traditional. Xenophobia is traditional. Women as chattel is traditional. Our ancestors were stupid, bumbling, simple brutes not much different from the rest of the great apes.

noitsnot: Veteran of the Cola Wars: Lucidz: Drakuun: Abby's comments, The Mom's concern, The Butt hurt 'that never happened' crowd..

All taking their own relationship frustrations out on people that have what they
only dream of, but keep themselves from ever really experiencing.

Too see so many people selling themselves short of what Love is capable of....
Instead focusing on jealousy, and insisting that everyone be as miserable as them
holding up some silly notion of morality when it comes to Sex and Sexuality.

It's Sad... It really is.

Love yourself, Be open with yourself, on then can you really love others.

If you can do this ....You'll be surprised what can happen.

The problem is, if you stick around fark long enough... You get these people who come and go, sometimes TF'ers, who claim to have these "insane experiences".  They have a great marriage, they swing, they have sex with beautiful 20 year olds, etc.  They are living the dream.  Of course they never have any pictures of themselves, or of their "conquests" because "they like their privacy".  (That doesn't stop them from constantly postbombing penthouse forum ready stories.)

Eventually some determined person will track down who these people are and post pictures.  Without fail they are hideous wildebeasts who wouldn't get into any club where the doorman wasn't blind.  Also without fail, as soon as the pics are posted and the reality comes out, someone gets banned and the fatty swingers with the exotic lifestyle just... Dissappear.

Or someone gets beaten up and post pics and the husband buys them a laptop to shut them up... (Went old school there)

My advice for the Wildebeests of Fark.

I learned this in my late teenaged years.

See, I was ugly. And I do mean ugly. Oogly. Make a statue cry, stop a clock, make water curdle, the sort of ugly that could make a sea hag vomit.

It is very important that you get a motorcycle. (Which will probably make you uglier in the long run) Get a motorcycle and become the sile ...

I suppose I attempted the same thing by buying a corvette in the south...

cmraman: Galloping Galoshes: cmraman: //Yeah, I'm a slut. What about it?

Don't need your stories.  Put your wife on.

She's not Fark fantasy material. She's 50, and she's not a supermodel. Oh, and unlike the girls most Farkers date, she's real...

/But since you asked nicely...

[www.geekconsulting.net image 850x566]

Who's that holding her?

Maybe I am jaded about open relationships and sex outside of a relationship. After being cheated on by the same whoresack twice, and seeing decent marriages crumble because of waning interest (really the only reason to get involved in poly-anything) I suppose I can only see the horrific ending that awaits most of those endeavors.

StaleCoffee: It doesn't even have to go that far since "Biology" backs monogamy in a tribal setting a lot more rationally than it does promiscuity. I'm sure some dimwit will bark some nonsense about genetic diversity. Yeah those 6 guys in the tribe are diverse, and when she constantly farks them all their sperm suit up and do battle over her egg, and in order for her to give birth that sperm has to fight a constant defensive battle against all comers.

Haha I said all comers.

Anyway, no, the biology thing is reserved for people who don't understand biology, society or just want to fark around on their SO's.

Your argument erroneously assumes there isn't an equal instinctive compulsion to make sure those other 6 guys in the tribe never get any sex at all.   Well, unless they're bottoming for another male. It also ignores the reality that women are more inclined to share a manthan men are inclined to share a woman.  Historically speaking polygamous societies always had polygyny (multi-woman) but almost NEVER had polyandry (multi-men).

Women on the other hand, trend monogamous, but there is an interesting hypothesis regarding the "bad boy" phenomenon.  Two things are generally accepted as fact: Women seek long-term relationships so with men so that those men will provide for their children.  Additionally, women sleep with bad boys, because he's got a motorcycle or plays guitar or is "suave" (that's code for "lies constantly").  They do it before they "settle down" with a "nice man" or they do it on the sly because they "have needs" and they do it a lot.  These two things seem at odds since the easy-lay tomcat won't be a provider, and the provider won't keep an unfaithful woman.

The hypothesis is this: Women seek to "cheat" either before or during a monogamous relationship because any children they have by the "tomcat" will be predisposed to tomcat around as well, (and in so doing carry her genes far and wide as well), and the provider is parasitized nest, a chump to be usedand to provide for someone else's genetic material.  Worse still?  Studies have shown when a woman is actively cheating, her sexual habits decrease the chances of conceiving with her regular partner and increase the chances of conceiving with the partner.

Now the MORAL equation is a different one entirely.  Men shouldn't be dogs, women shouldn't be biatches.  Men shouldn't except to fark on the first date (or expect such a woman to be faithful) and women shouldn't chase men who are raging dickbags because they're "confident".  People shouldn't be assholes, and no one should read Dear Abby.

Magorn: ciberido: Secret Agent X23: Well, you know, two chicks at one time are the fantasy.

Living with it as an ongoing setup would be hell on earth, especially if they're sisters. Assuming, of course, that it's really happening, which it isn't.


I actually have two female friends who are sharing a boyfriend.   I don't understand it, but they've been doing it for years, and they both seem happy.

Haven't heard any complaints from the guy, either.

*shrugs* Whatever works.

I personallyy know tons of people in open relationships, married and otherwise, in fact, far more than I know in exclusive ones, but I have to say in not a single one of those multiple dozens of realtionships, no matter how kinky or otherwise non-conventional it may be (and I know a couple who both got sex changes at the same time because they wanted to "switch") I know of exactly zero where one of the particpants shared a sexual partner with a blood relative.  That's a taboo most people just will not go near, no matter how open-minded they think they are

I think someone above said it best when it reeks of familial abuse and psychological damage as children, probably even physical violation by a family member.  Its just REALLY not right.  And personally, I find myself just as revolted by the sicko dudes who fantasize about participating in that incest with two sisters.  Just GROSS.