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(WCPO Cincinnati)   In a decision that is sure to have the district's lawyer beating his head against the table, Jackson, OH school board votes 4-0 to keep up the picture of Jesus that's hanging in the high school   (wcpo.com) divider line 201
    More: Followup, closed sessions, high schools  
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4508 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Feb 2013 at 9:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-13 01:12:00 PM

freeforever: But I am happy you liken a potrait of Jesus to one of the greatest mass-murderers of the 20th century.  Puts things in perspective.



"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Matthew 10:34

True Dat!

Christians are #1 in mass murders over time, well OK, 2nd only to God in the OT...

Don't make me post DETAILS and FACTS...your head may explode...
 
2013-02-13 01:15:18 PM

Dr Dreidel: freeforever: Dr Dreidel: freeforever: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

You missed the key phrase. "Establishments" are not simply "buildings", it's the trappings of religion. If the state promotes one religion over others, they run afoul of First Amendment protections. Period. (Read up on the Lemon test.)

You need to read the article again.  The school is allowing students from multiple clubs to hang portraits of their chosing.  How is that the state promoting one religion over the other when they're allowing everyone to get in on the action?

The article blurb says the High-Y Club owns the picture. The school is under no obligation to hang it on their grounds - student club-owned or not - and I would expect that a school administrator know the tiniest bit about the Establishment Clause. Enough to know that you fig-leaf the Jesus pic with an FSM index card hanging in a disused office at the bottom of a dilapidated stairwell to nowhere (under the "Beware of Leopard" sign").

Also, the blurb doesn't mention whether other student groups could get approval ("Well, we'd like to have an atheist student union, Timmy, but it seems you didn't get the approval of 10 teachers. No picture for you, better luck next year!") or whether anyone else tried. IIRC, the picture's been hanging there for 65 years. You're telling me throughout that time no other student group was formed or requested to have a picture hung?

Actually, it doesn't matter - schools shouldn't be showing preference to one religion. The High-Y club can hang the picture on a wall it owns.


Your entire argument is an unsubstantiated conspiracy that the school actively opposes other religions.The board says it will allow "other student clubs to hang portraits appropriate to their organizations."
 
2013-02-13 01:20:29 PM

The Bruce Dickinson: freeforever: But I am happy you liken a potrait of Jesus to one of the greatest mass-murderers of the 20th century.  Puts things in perspective.

Christians are #1 in mass murders over time, well OK, 2nd only to God in the OT...

Don't make me post DETAILS and FACTS...your head may explode...


The collective victims of Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward, Stalin's Purges and Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge would disagree with you.   But still, I am amused how you liken a portrait of Jesus to one of the greatest mass-murderers of the 20th century.
 
2013-02-13 01:23:53 PM

freeforever: Dr Dreidel: freeforever: Dr Dreidel: freeforever: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

You missed the key phrase. "Establishments" are not simply "buildings", it's the trappings of religion. If the state promotes one religion over others, they run afoul of First Amendment protections. Period. (Read up on the Lemon test.)

You need to read the article again.  The school is allowing students from multiple clubs to hang portraits of their chosing.  How is that the state promoting one religion over the other when they're allowing everyone to get in on the action?

The article blurb says the High-Y Club owns the picture. The school is under no obligation to hang it on their grounds - student club-owned or not - and I would expect that a school administrator know the tiniest bit about the Establishment Clause. Enough to know that you fig-leaf the Jesus pic with an FSM index card hanging in a disused office at the bottom of a dilapidated stairwell to nowhere (under the "Beware of Leopard" sign").

Also, the blurb doesn't mention whether other student groups could get approval ("Well, we'd like to have an atheist student union, Timmy, but it seems you didn't get the approval of 10 teachers. No picture for you, better luck next year!") or whether anyone else tried. IIRC, the picture's been hanging there for 65 years. You're telling me throughout that time no other student group was formed or requested to have a picture hung?

Actually, it doesn't matter - schools shouldn't be showing preference to one religion. The High-Y club can hang the picture on a wall it owns.

Your entire argument is an unsubstantiated conspiracy that the school actively opposes other religions.The board says it will allow "other student clubs to hang portraits appropriate to their organizations."


But it'll have to be an official club. Couldn't have the goth kids hanging a pic of a vampire, right? Those two kids w ho killed the feral cat behind the bleachers with

the javelin can't put up a pic of Satan, can they?
 
2013-02-13 01:25:21 PM
WTH is wrong with the comments thing?I keep saying it, but this thing  sucks.
 
2013-02-13 01:26:51 PM

freeforever: Your entire argument is an unsubstantiated conspiracy that the school actively opposes other religions.The board says it will allow "other student clubs to hang portraits appropriate to their organizations."


My entire argument was - speculation aside - "schools shouldn't be showing preference to one religion. The High-Y club can hang the picture on a wall it owns." You should already know this because I said "it doesn't matter" after laying out the speculation.

If the school really wants to keep that picture, hang one of Vishnu, Buddha, nothing, the FSM, Mohammed (or the "There is no god but Allah"-script), Hammurabi, whoever wrote the Magna Carta, Dag Hammarskjold, Harry Krishna, Sun Myung Moon, or any one of fifty other deities/legal-type figures right next to it. The school standing on some weird principle when two such easy remedies are on the table (get rid of the picture or add a new one) is what leads me to believe that perhaps their dogmatic attachment to only their own religious expression is what's guiding the argument here.
 
2013-02-13 01:29:04 PM

freeforever: The Bruce Dickinson: freeforever: But I am happy you liken a potrait of Jesus to one of the greatest mass-murderers of the 20th century.  Puts things in perspective.

Christians are #1 in mass murders over time, well OK, 2nd only to God in the OT...

Don't make me post DETAILS and FACTS...your head may explode...

The collective victims of Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward, Stalin's Purges and Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge would disagree with you.   But still, I am amused how you liken a portrait of Jesus to one of the greatest mass-murderers of the 20th century.


ksumail.kennesaw.edu
 
2013-02-13 01:31:07 PM

freeforever: The collective victims of Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward, Stalin's Purges and Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge would disagree with you.   But still, I am amused how you liken a portrait of Jesus to one of the greatest mass-murderers of the 20th century.


Your familiarity with history is comparable to your grasp of the Bill of Rights...

The Indians of North and South America left dead in the wake of the Christian invasion number 150,000,000 alone, 20,000,000 more than your hero's listed above...

To be clear, Jesus was not real, but if he were, he'd be a douche in my book...much like you...
 
2013-02-13 01:31:57 PM
But it'll have to be an official club. Couldn't have the goth kids hanging a pic of a vampire, right? Those two kids w ho killed the feral cat behind the bleacher ...

Why not?  Again, all I'm doing is defending the reasonable decision by a school board to allow a student group to hang a friggin Jesus portrait because they said they would allow inclusion from other groups...a position most recently endorsed by the Supreme Court so long as it isn't one religion being protected or represented.  I don't personally care about Muhammed.    I don't care about the Star of David. I don't care about Stalin.  I don't care about vampires.  And I don't care about Jesus!  I'm not Christian even though everyone here assumes so because I defend them.  When students try to put those portraits up and get rejected then you'll have an argument.
 
2013-02-13 01:32:11 PM

Dr Dreidel: If the school really wants to keep that picture, hang one of Vishnu, Buddha, nothing, the FSM, Mohammed (or the "There is no god but Allah"-script), Hammurabi, whoever wrote the Magna Carta, Dag Hammarskjold, Harry Krishna, Sun Myung Moon, or any one of fifty other deities/legal-type figures right next to it. The school standing on some weird principle when two such easy remedies are on the table (get rid of the picture or add a new one) is what leads me to believe that perhaps their dogmatic attachment to only their own religious expression is what's guiding the argument here.


teach the controversy lolz

clearly the only logical and rational decision is to keep a picture of nothing up, er oh you already said that, yep
 
2013-02-13 01:34:48 PM

The Bruce Dickinson: freeforever: The collective victims of Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward, Stalin's Purges and Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge would disagree with you.   But still, I am amused how you liken a portrait of Jesus to one of the greatest mass-murderers of the 20th century.

Your familiarity with history is comparable to your grasp of the Bill of Rights...

The Indians of North and South America left dead in the wake of the Christian invasion number 150,000,000 alone, 20,000,000 more than your hero's listed above...

To be clear, Jesus was not real, but if he were, he'd be a douche in my book...much like you...


THIS^

lolz christians are so dumb, did you actually expect an intelligent response from them?
 
2013-02-13 01:39:19 PM

Oldiron_79: fruitloop: Vodka Zombie: It's like they just don't get it.

Weird.

They totally get it.  The Christians get to have their picture of Jesus in the school because the kids wanted it.  Pictures of deities from other religions can be hung too, if there are enough students to form a club (which has to be approved by the school), and the club requests to have a picture (which has to be approved by the school) hung in the space.  How many students that don't practice Christianity attend the middle school in Jackson County, Ohio?  Checkmate.  Amen.

/going to make some popcorn

The Courthouse in Cumberland co TN has a statue of the Flying Spaghetti Monster on its ground from where some ACLU troll tried sueing then they said they would gladly put up any statue that any religious group wanted to pay for.


That's funny, but it's still wrong.  The First Amendment doesn't guarantee equal treatment of all religions; it forbids laws promoting any religions.
 
2013-02-13 01:45:26 PM
 

The Bruce Dickinson: freeforever: The collective victims of Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward, Stalin's Purges and Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge would disagree with you.   But still, I am amused how you liken a portrait of Jesus to one of the greatest mass-murderers of the 20th century.

Your familiarity with history is comparable to your grasp of the Bill of Rights...

The Indians of North and South America left dead in the wake of the Christian invasion number 150,000,000 alone, 20,000,000 more than your hero's listed above...

To be clear, Jesus was not real, but if he were, he'd be a douche in my book...much like you...



My hero's (sic) listed above amount to three.  That they're only 20,000,000 behind the countless Christians you count that were part of the Indian massacres proves my point more than it does yours.  Religious people make up, what, 90% of our world's population since the beginning of time?  Of course more crimes should have been committed by them, however proportionately godless Communists have proven bloodiest.
 
2013-02-13 01:55:06 PM

The Bruce Dickinson: To be clear, Jesus was not real, but if he were, he'd be a douche in my book...much like you...


Yes, I'm a douche because I think student groups should be allowed to freely practice their religion and free speech by hanging a portrait of their choosing regardless of religion or affiliation.  Even in teh school!  I'm such a horrible person.  How am I not locked up in prison by now?

But I digest.

If Jesus is also a douche in your book I'm in pretty good company.

///And with that I'm out.  It was fun but now I have to justify my paycheck today which isn't happening entertaining the godless atheists of FARK who get all worked up over things like portraits in schools.   What a portrait of Jesus?!??!  In a school!!!!!   Call the ACLU.  I feel violated!  Somebody believes in something I DON'T????  The Constitution says you can only be religious in private lest the precious atheist snowflakes gaze upon a portrait of Jesus.  What about Mohammed?  Spaghetti monsters?  Ahhhhhh!
 
2013-02-13 01:59:00 PM
i50.tinypic.com

i48.tinypic.com
 
2013-02-13 01:59:32 PM

Stoker: Stray thought:
When do you figure God learned to speak English?


Before everyone else.
 
2013-02-13 02:00:36 PM

I drunk what: Dr Dreidel: If the school really wants to keep that picture, hang one of Vishnu, Buddha, nothing, the FSM, Mohammed (or the "There is no god but Allah"-script), Hammurabi, whoever wrote the Magna Carta, Dag Hammarskjold, Harry Krishna, Sun Myung Moon, or any one of fifty other deities/legal-type figures right next to it. The school standing on some weird principle when two such easy remedies are on the table (get rid of the picture or add a new one) is what leads me to believe that perhaps their dogmatic attachment to only their own religious expression is what's guiding the argument here.

teach the controversy lolz

clearly the only logical and rational decision is to keep a picture of nothing up, er oh you already said that, yep


There's an empty picture frame hanging next to White Republican Jesus that underneath says "the above is a representation of the religious beliefs of atheists"? (You know - an actual "picture" of "nothing" and an explanation of what it represents).

Or you could intentionally miss the point again.

// it's not "teaching the controversy", it's "following the damned law"
// read the legal history of religious freedom in the US - you clearly have no frame of reference here
 
2013-02-13 02:10:59 PM
Most of the mass-murders referenced in previous posts were political in nature. Religion was cited in an attempt to justify them.
 
2013-02-13 02:14:14 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: Professor Duck: I May Be Crazy But...: Professor Duck: Portraits of people that preached selflessness and compassion for others MAKE ME SO ANGRY!

Most likely inaccurate portraits of someone who (apparently - I wasn't there) preached selflessness and compassion whose teachings are now used to justify condemning some people as less human than the rest of us, encouraging the spread of AIDS in Africa, and handing me pamphlets does get under my skin a little, yeah.

/The last might not be the same scale of evil as the other two.

Then be pissed with the people that misinterpret his teachings, not with the man himself.

It ain't their own picture they point at when they're telling me about why I'm going to hell. I have no problem with Jesus - I have a problem with him being plastered over every damn thing.


Tell 'em they're going as well--you know, the whole "love your neighbor as yourself" and "judge not lest ye be judged" and what-not.

...and honestly, what's the big problem beyond the religious aspect? The world would be a better place if people legitimately followed his teachings.
 
rpm
2013-02-13 02:28:11 PM

Professor Duck: The world would be a better place if people legitimately followed his teachings.


Great idea!

"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.""

"For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."
 
2013-02-13 02:35:50 PM
BarkingUnicorn: Oldiron_79: fruitloop: Vodka Zombie: It's like they just don't get it.

Weird.

They totally get it.  The Christians get to have their picture of Jesus in the school because the kids wanted it.  Pictures of deities from other religions can be hung too, if there are enough students to form a club (which has to be approved by the school), and the club requests to have a picture (which has to be approved by the school) hung in the space.  How many students that don't practice Christianity attend the middle school in Jackson County, Ohio?  Checkmate.  Amen.

/going to make some popcorn

The Courthouse in Cumberland co TN has a statue of the Flying Spaghetti Monster on its ground from where some ACLU troll tried sueing then they said they would gladly put up any statue that any religious group wanted to pay for.

That's funny, but it's still wrong.  The First Amendment doesn't guarantee equal treatment of all religions; it forbids laws promoting any religions.


Allowing a monument paid for by another group to be on govt land is not promoting as long as you don't discriminate. Now if the govt pays for the monument pr discriminates it is promoting as ruled by the court.
 
2013-02-13 02:42:45 PM

Dr Dreidel: I drunk what: Dr Dreidel: If the school really wants to keep that picture, hang one of Vishnu, Buddha, nothing, the FSM, Mohammed (or the "There is no god but Allah"-script), Hammurabi, whoever wrote the Magna Carta, Dag Hammarskjold, Harry Krishna, Sun Myung Moon, or any one of fifty other deities/legal-type figures right next to it. The school standing on some weird principle when two such easy remedies are on the table (get rid of the picture or add a new one) is what leads me to believe that perhaps their dogmatic attachment to only their own religious expression is what's guiding the argument here.

teach the controversy lolz

clearly the only logical and rational decision is to keep a picture of nothing up, er oh you already said that, yep

There's an empty picture frame hanging next to White Republican Jesus that underneath says "the above is a representation of the religious beliefs of atheists"? (You know - an actual "picture" of "nothing" and an explanation of what it represents).

Or you could intentionally miss the point again.

// it's not "teaching the controversy", it's "following the damned law"
// read the legal history of religious freedom in the US - you clearly have no frame of reference here


no i got the point NOTHING should be put on the wall, as in there are no invisible sky wizards, so the only pictures we should be hanging up are of real people that can actually benefit society

3.bp.blogspot.com

besides everyone knows that jesus was an anti-semite and we don't need to be spreading his hate speech around our public spaces
 
2013-02-13 02:54:29 PM

I drunk what: no i got the point NOTHING should be put on the wall,


I thought you were that other guy. My bad.

// FWIW, I agree - schools should promote the people who promoted learning
// and specifically NDGT, who got into astronomy to prove scientists wrong, is most definitely a role model kids should know all about
 
2013-02-13 03:11:53 PM

Carth: Just hang a picture of Muhammad next to it. I'm sure that will solve all of their problems.


Only if we also have a picture with the words, "There are no gods. Only man." right beside those...
 
2013-02-13 03:17:46 PM

Galvatron Zero: As an atheist...

I really don't understand what the big deal is.  It's just a picture.  Seriously.  To some people, it's the son of god and makes them feel good.  To others... it's just a picture.

There's a church on my street!
I demand it gets torn down!
It offends my senses!

If a picture of Jesus offends you, you have other issues.

/overactive sense of self-entitlement being one...
9_9


If you actually believe this, you're an idiot.
 
2013-02-13 03:30:51 PM

Dr Dreidel: I drunk what: no i got the point NOTHING should be put on the wall,

I thought you were that other guy. My bad.

// FWIW, I agree - schools should promote the people who promoted learning
// and specifically NDGT, who got into astronomy to prove scientists wrong, is most definitely a role model kids should know all about


FOR SCIENCE!

ramen
 
2013-02-13 03:53:22 PM

Dr Dreidel: Braindeath: Dr Dreidel: // "Zimbabwean Cartography Club"
// (that one might be a bit esoteric - Google a song called "Map of Zimbabwe". SFW, I think)

Are you looking for Amanda Palmer's <a href="http://music.amandapalmer.net/track/map-of-tasmania-feat-the-yo ung-pun x "> Map of Tasmania</a> song?

Holy fark. I thought I could make it through this morning without coffee.

Yes. Map of TASMANIA.


I screwed up using Fark so I feel you're probably ahead here.
 
2013-02-13 04:01:34 PM
underneaththestairwell.com

How I would love to see this mug next to Jesus F'ing Christ...
 
2013-02-13 04:08:36 PM
so Exodus 20-4 doesn't apply here?  We need god's law in schools!
 
2013-02-13 04:29:42 PM

escherblacksmith: Oldiron_79: fruitloop: Vodka Zombie: It's like they just don't get it.

Weird.

They totally get it.  The Christians get to have their picture of Jesus in the school because the kids wanted it.  Pictures of deities from other religions can be hung too, if there are enough students to form a club (which has to be approved by the school), and the club requests to have a picture (which has to be approved by the school) hung in the space.  How many students that don't practice Christianity attend the middle school in Jackson County, Ohio?  Checkmate.  Amen.

/going to make some popcorn

The Courthouse in Cumberland co TN has a statue of the Flying Spaghetti Monster on its ground from where some ACLU troll tried sueing then they said they would gladly put up any statue that any religious group wanted to pay for.

hah, I had not heard that.  cool

[www.boingboing.net image 200x299]

\\Ramen


A suited devil with a contract and quill would look good across the lawn.
 
2013-02-13 04:50:48 PM

freeforever: meat0918: You know what's amazing?

When Christians keep their religion to themselves they get along great with others.

Instead, they are jamming it anywhere and everywhere they can and complaining when we; both the secular and the religious citizens that like the separation of church and state; ask them to follow the laws of the land.

I'm sorry, but trying to backdoor bypass the First Amendment just isn't going to fly in this country any longer.

So in your book, a static portrait of Jesus on a school wall is "jamming" religion "anywhere and everywhere?"  And since you brought up the First Amendment:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Liberals are quick to point the prohibitoin of government establishing a relion but couldn't give a fark about the right to the free exercise of religion and right to free speech.  It's one thing is the school is promoting religion, but if a group of students wants to hang a simple portrait of some dude who goes by the name of Jesus and the school is willing to allow other students to express their religion then by all means ....GET....OVER.....YOURSELVES....YOU.....INTOLLERANT.....ATHIESTS.


Oh, I am all for free exercise of religious freedom.  And I mentioned elsewhere in the thread that I am not exactly happy that schools limit their student's right to free speech.

I want everyone to be able to worship freely, as well as the freedom to not have to be religious.  That freedom is implicit in the First Amendment.  However, the freedom or religion does not include official government endorsement of things like putting up items that serve no secular purpose in a government building.  This includes public school teachers and administrators

I don't care if a teacher wears a religious pendant, or has a picture of her chosen deity on her desk(though , as long as she is teaching first and never proselytizing.

I had teachers that were super religious outside of the school, but never felt the need to preach in class.  We need more of our super religious teachers to keep it outside the classroom.
 
2013-02-13 05:02:33 PM
How many of you have actually seen the physical document which is the Bill Of Rights?

Well I've seen it and here is what the first amendment REALLY says...

Congress shall make no law permitting an establishment of organized delusion, or permitting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Somebody changed it!
 
2013-02-13 05:08:39 PM
I drunk what:
no i got the point NOTHING should be put on the wall, as in there are no invisible sky wizards, so the only pictures we should be hanging up are of real people that can actually benefit society

Jesus Christ, what is with the love affair people have with Neil Tyson? What the fark has he done to share a table with those giants? "He's black so it's like science is cool! YEAH!"
 
2013-02-13 05:12:35 PM

God-is-a-Taco: I drunk what:
no i got the point NOTHING should be put on the wall, as in there are no invisible sky wizards, so the only pictures we should be hanging up are of real people that can actually benefit society

Jesus Christ, what is with the love affair people have with Neil Tyson? What the fark has he done to share a table with those giants? "He's black so it's like science is cool! YEAH!"


you're right einstein shouldn't be on there, instead we should celebrate the true father of SCIENCE

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

he hates creationists, therefore he is the most logical and rational guy at the table, but not as dreamy as dawkins *swoon*
 
2013-02-13 06:23:47 PM

Theaetetus: b8zlbubba: The district's lawyer is actually salivating about the hours he will get to bill on this one.

Someone doesn't know how government positions work.


School district attorneys generally are not employees.  They're on retainer and bill hours.  A large district might find it more cost-effective to hire an attorney, but most don't have that enough work to keep an attorney busy full time.
 
2013-02-13 06:55:35 PM

Millennium: If teaching people how to understand each other is a major goal of public education -as many would say it is- then should teaching people about the various religions not be part of that?


You can do that with scientific, psychological, and sociological curricula without running afoul of the First Amendment.  The "understanding" skills learned will be generally applicable, not specific to religious motivations.
 
2013-02-13 07:04:19 PM

Target Builder: TommyJReed: After huddling with attorneys in closed session the board said the portrait belongs to the student group that put it up, the Hi-Y club. It says it will allow other student clubs to hang portraits appropriate to their organizations.

I hope there are some creative kids in this school with a bit of free time.


Hi-Y clubs are "affiliated with the Young Men's Christian Association, with purpose to create, maintain, and extend throughout the school and community, high standards of Christian character..."

Proselytizers don't belong in public schools at all.
 
2013-02-13 07:20:17 PM

freeforever: Dr Dreidel: freeforever: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

You missed the key phrase. "Establishments" are not simply "buildings", it's the trappings of religion. If the state promotes one religion over others, they run afoul of First Amendment protections. Period. (Read up on the Lemon test.)

You need to read the article again.  The school is allowing students from multiple clubs to hang portraits of their chosing.  How is that the state promoting one religion over the other when they're allowing everyone to get in on the action?


No.  The school will decide what's "appropriate" for each club to display.
 
2013-02-13 07:48:12 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: Bender The Offender: The Irresponsible Captain: Perhaps a more appropriate deity... One connected with wisdom and self-sacrifice for knowledge?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x323]

Is that Gandalf the Grey?

Odin, whom I pretty sure was inspiration for Gandalf.


I thought Odin wore an eyepatch....
 
2013-02-13 07:53:26 PM

Oldiron_79: Allowing a monument paid for by another group to be on govt land is not promoting as long as you don't discriminate. Now if the govt pays for the monument pr discriminates it is promoting as ruled by the court.


Which court?  The SCOTUS earned a blistering from Clarence Thomas for the mess of conflicting lower-court rulings that it keeps dodging.

Public land that people are free to avoid or leave is different from a public school with a captive audience.  And don't tell me the kids can go to private school; they can't make that choice.  This is about the kids' rights to be free from religion, not their parents'.

Who pays for a religious display is irrelevant, imo.  The display is not possible without the school's permission, which a reasonable person would conclude implies endorsement.  Want a court case?  See Thomas' dissent:

"A sharply divided Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit has declared unconstitutional a private association's efforts to memorialize slain police officers with white roadside crosses, holding that the crosses convey to a reasonable observer that the state of Utah is endorsing Christianity."

The SCOTUS refused to hear that case, letting the 10th Circuit decision stand.
 
2013-02-13 08:18:13 PM

earthworm2.0: The Irresponsible Captain: Bender The Offender: The Irresponsible Captain: Perhaps a more appropriate deity... One connected with wisdom and self-sacrifice for knowledge?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x323]

Is that Gandalf the Grey?

Odin, whom I pretty sure was inspiration for Gandalf.

I thought Odin wore an eyepatch....


that's not what odin looks like.   odin was a negro

you've just been brainwashed by republican lies
 
2013-02-13 08:32:33 PM

earthworm2.0: The Irresponsible Captain: Bender The Offender: The Irresponsible Captain: Perhaps a more appropriate deity... One connected with wisdom and self-sacrifice for knowledge?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x323]

Is that Gandalf the Grey?

Odin, whom I pretty sure was inspiration for Gandalf.

I thought Odin wore an eyepatch....


Looks like an eye's missing to me. Anyway, he went around as a poor beggar - you don't expect an eye patch, necessarily.
 
2013-02-13 09:37:26 PM

freeforever: The Bruce Dickinson: Conservatives are quick to point the prohibition of government establishing a religion but couldn't give a fark about the right to the free exercise of religion and right to free speech.  It's one thing is the school is promoting religion, but if a group of students wants to hang a simple portrait of some dude who goes by the name of Muhammadand the school is willing to allow other students to express their religion then by all means ....

Classic straw man.  No one in this thread is arguing against a portrait of Mohammed.  If students want to hang his portrait then they should have the right.




Hey! That's against the rules.

2.bp.blogspot.com

/the rules are the rules
 
2013-02-13 09:40:35 PM

lenfromak: If I was the district's lawyer and had an ounce of sanity, I would resign and let these idiots defend themselves.


Ever hear of billable hours?
 
2013-02-13 09:43:51 PM
I see I'm late to this party. :(
 
2013-02-13 11:37:33 PM

rpm: Professor Duck: The world would be a better place if people legitimately followed his teachings.

Great idea!

"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.""

"For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."


How nice of you not to move past the surface level meaning of these statements. Good job.
 
2013-02-14 03:52:19 AM

Professor Duck: How nice of you not to move past the surface level meaning of these statements. Good job.


Right. Christians are all for moving past the surface level meaning when the surface level meaning makes them uncomfortable.
But when a ridiculous, barbaric passage meshes with their own bigotries - man, they get all literal on your ass.

imageshack.us

Christianity is stupid. Give it up.
 
2013-02-14 06:18:13 AM

sure haven't: Egads, imagine that. A country founded by Christians wants to keep a Christian symbol up in a public place.

There are so many more important things to internet-rage about, ffs who gives a sh*t...


The country was also founds by slaveholders. perhaps we should honor slavery in our schools too.
 
2013-02-14 08:13:35 AM

0Icky0: Professor Duck: How nice of you not to move past the surface level meaning of these statements. Good job.

Right. Christians are all for moving past the surface level meaning when the surface level meaning makes them uncomfortable.
But when a ridiculous, barbaric passage meshes with their own bigotries - man, they get all literal on your ass.

[imageshack.us image 350x438]

Christianity is stupid. Give it up.


Believe what you wish. Unlike most people that claim to the Christian, I won't judge you.
 
2013-02-14 08:15:50 AM
"be", not "the".

Also, I'd be happy to talk about what actually was trying to be said in those statements, should you be willing to listen.
 
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