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(Orlando Sentinel)   New law lets HOA foreclose on house immediately if you miss a payment. Bonus: you can't legally challenge whether you actually owe the money   (orlandosentinel.com ) divider line
    More: Florida, New Laws, HOA, De Land, secret ballots, homeowners associations, payments  
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16298 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Feb 2013 at 12:55 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



192 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-02-13 12:02:17 AM  
It's not a law yet, Subby. Didn't you watch Schoolhouse Rock?
 
2013-02-13 12:23:05 AM  
That would never be abused.
 
2013-02-13 12:29:37 AM  
About time we had another "HOA's suck" thread, I was about to email the mods.
 
2013-02-13 12:57:48 AM  
You can still kick in the HOA president's front door and rape his family as a sign of protest, right?
 
2013-02-13 12:59:42 AM  
OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.
 
2013-02-13 01:01:23 AM  
HOA threads are a breath of fresh air after 3 months of gun threads.

Flame away, kids.
 
2013-02-13 01:02:02 AM  
Well it's a good thing that Giant Death Bulldozers are still legal.

/They can only push a man so far.
 
2013-02-13 01:03:44 AM  
So they can take away your house for unpaid HOA fees even if you're current on your mortgage?? How the flying f*ck does that work?
 
2013-02-13 01:05:09 AM  
This just in...Florida is a shiathole.
 
2013-02-13 01:05:17 AM  
I have no problem with HOAs.  If you're dumb enough to sign up for one, you deserve what you get.
 
2013-02-13 01:05:35 AM  
Do CC&Rs for the county HOAs require 3 dead Chevy's and 6 live chickens, or is it the other way around?
 
2013-02-13 01:06:20 AM  
"HOAs suck donkey balls", says Ric Romero. Details at 11.
 
2013-02-13 01:07:58 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I have no problem with HOAs.  If you're dumb enough to sign up for one, you deserve what you get.


As someone who has never owned a house before.. How limited do your options get in your average suburban area if HOA's are an automatic "fark that" as you're looking for a place?  Are they pretty ubiquitous?
 
2013-02-13 01:08:32 AM  

fusillade762: So they can take away your house for unpaid HOA fees even if you're current on your mortgage?? How the flying f*ck does that work?


'Cuz freedom, that's why. Its what the brave sons and daughters in the greatest gosh darn military the world has ever seen fought and died for.
 
2013-02-13 01:09:23 AM  
Why would anyone be willing to deal with an HOA?
 
2013-02-13 01:09:41 AM  

GleeUnit: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I have no problem with HOAs.  If you're dumb enough to sign up for one, you deserve what you get.

As someone who has never owned a house before.. How limited do your options get in your average suburban area if HOA's are an automatic "fark that" as you're looking for a place?  Are they pretty ubiquitous?


According to  http://gawker.com/5830257/the-horror-of-homeowners-associations , 80% of new homes are in a homeowner's association.
 
2013-02-13 01:10:27 AM  
So if I'm understanding that correctly, they're also throwing out due process for people serving on HOA boards, since you could be removed from your post for even being CHARGED with a felony related to HOA business.
 
2013-02-13 01:11:46 AM  
Sorry, I'm a dumbass about HOAs.  If I want to buy a house and I have the money and it's what the current owner is willing to sell for... how does the HOA have anything to say about it?  Why is an HOA agreement required for me to buy the house?  What's the dang deal?
 
2013-02-13 01:12:12 AM  

fusillade762: So they can take away your house for unpaid HOA fees even if you're current on your mortgage?? How the flying f*ck does that work?


the unpaid dues are awarded as a judgement to the HOA and against you. the HOA sells the property to satisfy the judgement. some states have laws that protect your primary residence. it seems FL doesn't.
 
2013-02-13 01:15:25 AM  
"under proposed legislation" hello
 
2013-02-13 01:15:36 AM  
"My purpose in sponsoring the bill is to try to establish more fairness in the homeowner-association community and try to have a better balance between the residents and the developers," he said.

Because nothing says "balance" like being able to foreclose on a $300,000 house for $2,000 in fees to some group that isn't even doing its job anymore due to "budget woes". Nothing says "balance" like making someone pay in advance to challenge a claim that they owe money in the first place. Finally nothing says "balance" like the attitude that if you hire an attorney to defend yourself against these claims, it means that you had the money all along and are just trying to screw them, but they get to keep a lawyer on retainer to sue YOU with full time.


I don't think this cock understands the concept of "balance". Either that, or he thinks he can keep pissing on these people's heads and tell them it's raining. There is no reason to join an HOA, and it's not really surprising that people have resorted to violence at these meetings. A bunch of Napoleons who get excited at lording over homeowners and screwing them out of their houses? Yeah, that's going to end well.
 
2013-02-13 01:15:50 AM  
This is one of those rare happy circumstances in which I don't care which side loses.
 
2013-02-13 01:19:16 AM  

super_grass: HOA threads are a breath of fresh air after 3 months of gun threads.

Flame away, kids.


I want to see enforcement of this come up against someone excising castle doctrine.
 
2013-02-13 01:21:06 AM  

Gyrfalcon: OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.


If you think they won't cut off their nose to spite their face; you've got another thing coming.

/ They'll use this to evict people they don't like
 
2013-02-13 01:22:33 AM  

Aquapope: Sorry, I'm a dumbass about HOAs.  If I want to buy a house and I have the money and it's what the current owner is willing to sell for... how does the HOA have anything to say about it?  Why is an HOA agreement required for me to buy the house?  What's the dang deal?


It's usually on the deed.
 
2013-02-13 01:22:34 AM  
Those campgrounds suck anyway.
 
2013-02-13 01:23:05 AM  
First off a HOA should never be allowed to foreclose over dues they should send them to collections.   secondly this bill is a very had idea.

Thirdly i have a feeling the author of this bill is president or an officer in an HOA.
 
2013-02-13 01:23:15 AM  

Gyrfalcon: OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.


home.earthlink.net

Set the neighborhood on fire?

 
2013-02-13 01:24:45 AM  

grimlock1972: First off a HOA should never be allowed to foreclose over dues they should send them to collections.   secondly this bill is a very had idea.

Thirdly i have a feeling the author of this bill is president or an officer in an HOA.


Or a republican.
 
2013-02-13 01:27:30 AM  

Yogimus: You can still kick in the HOA president's front door and rape his family as a sign of protest, right?


As long as you post a rambling manifesto to Facebook threatening to use asymmetric warfare to rid the world of the HOA members and their families first.
 
2013-02-13 01:27:51 AM  

FizixJunkee: GleeUnit: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I have no problem with HOAs.  If you're dumb enough to sign up for one, you deserve what you get.

As someone who has never owned a house before.. How limited do your options get in your average suburban area if HOA's are an automatic "fark that" as you're looking for a place?  Are they pretty ubiquitous?

According to  http://gawker.com/5830257/the-horror-of-homeowners-associations , 80% of new homes are in a homeowner's association.


Solution: don't buy a new home.

Benefit: your home might actually be built well.
 
2013-02-13 01:28:40 AM  

Mikey1969: "My purpose in sponsoring the bill is to try to establish more fairness in the homeowner-association community and try to have a better balance between the residents and the developers," he said.

Because nothing says "balance" like being able to foreclose on a $300,000 house for $2,000 in fees to some group that isn't even doing its job anymore due to "budget woes". Nothing says "balance" like making someone pay in advance to challenge a claim that they owe money in the first place. Finally nothing says "balance" like the attitude that if you hire an attorney to defend yourself against these claims, it means that you had the money all along and are just trying to screw them, but they get to keep a lawyer on retainer to sue YOU with full time.



Sounds familiar...

IRS?
 
2013-02-13 01:30:29 AM  

Gyrfalcon: OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.


Right, it would be much better to let deadbeats persist months/years at other's expense, racking up an increasing arrearage while the association limps along trying to keep the property from deteriorating and to meet its expenses, rather than forcing the owners to either perform on their obligations or get out and let in some people who can actually pay their bills.  At least the property will likely be bought by somebody who can afford it, and if not, the association will be no worse off since the departees weren't paying anyway.
 
2013-02-13 01:30:48 AM  

DarthBart: Aquapope: Sorry, I'm a dumbass about HOAs. If I want to buy a house and I have the money and it's what the current owner is willing to sell for... how does the HOA have anything to say about it? Why is an HOA agreement required for me to buy the house? What's the dang deal?

It's usually on the deed.


Ok, but why?  The seller shouldn't care anymore, they're selling.  So how does it get on a deed, a doc that pretty much only describes a property and defines ownership.  And if, as the buyer, I say "Take that shiat off the deed!" who do I say it to?  Who has authority to remove it (or modify it, for that matter)?  Are these deed codicils sunshined or is that property under HOA influence forever?   Is it a civil contract kind of thing, in which case it shouldn't involve anybody but the seller and buyer, or is the city/county somehow involved?  What the hell?  I want that house and I don't want HOA stinking up the place!  So why can't that happen?
 
2013-02-13 01:33:30 AM  
And once again I say, if you live in a HOA property you are giving up what few rights property owners otherwise might have.

Might as well just rent, because you control zilch. And if you don't control, you don't own.

Enjoy your privatized government hell. I'd rather live in the ghetto (and I have) than a HOA community. At least when you are at the corner of The and Hood you know what's up.
 
2013-02-13 01:34:30 AM  

GleeUnit: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I have no problem with HOAs.  If you're dumb enough to sign up for one, you deserve what you get.

As someone who has never owned a house before.. How limited do your options get in your average suburban area if HOA's are an automatic "fark that" as you're looking for a place?  Are they pretty ubiquitous?


Depends on where you are. Seems that, in places like Floriduh, it's nearly impossible to find a house in a livable neighborhood without one. Here in Oklahoma, HOA's are the exception, and it's easy to find one without.
 
2013-02-13 01:39:20 AM  

Mikey1969: "My purpose in sponsoring the bill is to try to establish more fairness in the homeowner-association community and try to have a better balance between the residents and the developers," he said.

Because nothing says "balance" like being able to foreclose on a $300,000 house for $2,000 in fees to some group that isn't even doing its job anymore due to "budget woes". Nothing says "balance" like making someone pay in advance to challenge a claim that they owe money in the first place. Finally nothing says "balance" like the attitude that if you hire an attorney to defend yourself against these claims, it means that you had the money all along and are just trying to screw them, but they get to keep a lawyer on retainer to sue YOU with full time.


I don't think this cock understands the concept of "balance". Either that, or he thinks he can keep pissing on these people's heads and tell them it's raining. There is no reason to join an HOA, and it's not really surprising that people have resorted to violence at these meetings. A bunch of Napoleons who get excited at lording over homeowners and screwing them out of their houses? Yeah, that's going to end well.


Here's an even better bit of 'balance' for you:

Fight an HOA and win a settlement from them? They raise YOUR rates to pay YOU the settlement. Nothing ever really comes from THEIR pockets. How's that for 'balance'?

/even the most benign HOA is only ever one election away from having a 'busybody with too much time' in charge
//too bad that many areas now require an HOA before they'll give development approval to a builder
 
2013-02-13 01:39:34 AM  

Curious: fusillade762: Some states have laws that protect your primary residence. it seems FL doesn't.


I thought that was covered in the state constitutional ammendments, unless I read that wrong.  Ammendment X Section 4.
 http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?Mode=Constitution&Sub men u=3&Tab=statutes&CFID=241755126&CFTOKEN=32602505#A10S04

/IANAL
 
2013-02-13 01:40:27 AM  

lokis_mentor: Curious: fusillade762: Some states have laws that protect your primary residence. it seems FL doesn't.

I thought that was covered in the state constitutional ammendments, unless I read that wrong.   Article X Section 4.
 http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?Mode=Constitution&Sub men u=3&Tab=statutes&CFID=241755126&CFTOKEN=32602505#A10S04

/IANAL


//FTFM
 
2013-02-13 01:49:29 AM  
In theory, I'm against this.

In reality, I've been stuck running a 13 unit Condo building with assessments. And I understand the premise.

I had one unit that has been a thorn in my ass for years. She played the game all that time. While I spent hours of my personal time with lawyers, she was killing time and I had to deal with other unit owners complaining about her unit reaking of weed 24/7.

I've had to Sic attorney's on her twice in the last 18 months. Once went as far as where we evicted her, changed her locks and kicked her out. She "magically" came up with $4500 in back payments within 24 hours. In the six months before, I supervised the Gas and Electric company turning off her service because she was more than $1K overdue.

She was the rule. The exception to the rule are those that might miss a payment or two between a situation. But she was more than happy to play our building for years. She bought a brand new VW SUV, which she had for month before it was repossessed, then had a cab pick her up every morning for work while the rest of us walked to the train.

I think alot of these rules are crap. But when someone eventually buys her unit, in addition to taking our property values, the building will only re-coup six-months of back assesments. We're eating the cost of the thousands of dollars we spent to evict her previously.

Life's a game. She played it well and my hard-working neighbors and I are left footing the costs.
 
2013-02-13 01:49:33 AM  
Couldn't they settle these disputes in a more Florida-esque fashion?  Like maybe repurpose the Citrus Bowl for this?

pics.imcdb.org
 
2013-02-13 01:53:00 AM  
No one forced anyone to buy a house that has an HOA.  The homeowners have gotten exactly what they asked for.
 
2013-02-13 01:53:12 AM  

DigitalCoffee: Mikey1969: "My purpose in sponsoring the bill is to try to establish more fairness in the homeowner-association community and try to have a better balance between the residents and the developers," he said.

Because nothing says "balance" like being able to foreclose on a $300,000 house for $2,000 in fees to some group that isn't even doing its job anymore due to "budget woes". Nothing says "balance" like making someone pay in advance to challenge a claim that they owe money in the first place. Finally nothing says "balance" like the attitude that if you hire an attorney to defend yourself against these claims, it means that you had the money all along and are just trying to screw them, but they get to keep a lawyer on retainer to sue YOU with full time.


I don't think this cock understands the concept of "balance". Either that, or he thinks he can keep pissing on these people's heads and tell them it's raining. There is no reason to join an HOA, and it's not really surprising that people have resorted to violence at these meetings. A bunch of Napoleons who get excited at lording over homeowners and screwing them out of their houses? Yeah, that's going to end well.

Here's an even better bit of 'balance' for you:

Fight an HOA and win a settlement from them? They raise YOUR rates to pay YOU the settlement. Nothing ever really comes from THEIR pockets. How's that for 'balance'?

/even the most benign HOA is only ever one election away from having a 'busybody with too much time' in charge
//too bad that many areas now require an HOA before they'll give development approval to a builder


Got the perfect "busybody" example... My wife used to work with a guy that was Chair of his HOA. One weekend, a family was out of town and asked some neighbors to check the place out each night, turn on some lights, shiat like that. These people left the lights on one night, and having your porch light on during the day was apparently a violation. This dude was walking on air that day because as it turns out, the people who were checking on the house were members, so he was excited to levy this fine TWICE. He just thought it was slick as shiat that he got to stick to families with this bullshiat fine. This was totally the dude that would measure your lawn or cite you because your dog was too large, as if it were an apartment complex.
 
2013-02-13 01:54:30 AM  

Yogimus: grimlock1972: First off a HOA should never be allowed to foreclose over dues they should send them to collections.   secondly this bill is a very had idea.

Thirdly i have a feeling the author of this bill is president or an officer in an HOA.

Or a republican.


LOL! Political humor, gets me every time
 
2013-02-13 01:54:47 AM  

Mikey1969: DigitalCoffee: Mikey1969: "My purpose in sponsoring the bill is to try to establish more fairness in the homeowner-association community and try to have a better balance between the residents and the developers," he said.

Because nothing says "balance" like being able to foreclose on a $300,000 house for $2,000 in fees to some group that isn't even doing its job anymore due to "budget woes". Nothing says "balance" like making someone pay in advance to challenge a claim that they owe money in the first place. Finally nothing says "balance" like the attitude that if you hire an attorney to defend yourself against these claims, it means that you had the money all along and are just trying to screw them, but they get to keep a lawyer on retainer to sue YOU with full time.


I don't think this cock understands the concept of "balance". Either that, or he thinks he can keep pissing on these people's heads and tell them it's raining. There is no reason to join an HOA, and it's not really surprising that people have resorted to violence at these meetings. A bunch of Napoleons who get excited at lording over homeowners and screwing them out of their houses? Yeah, that's going to end well.

Here's an even better bit of 'balance' for you:

Fight an HOA and win a settlement from them? They raise YOUR rates to pay YOU the settlement. Nothing ever really comes from THEIR pockets. How's that for 'balance'?

/even the most benign HOA is only ever one election away from having a 'busybody with too much time' in charge
//too bad that many areas now require an HOA before they'll give development approval to a builder

Got the perfect "busybody" example... My wife used to work with a guy that was Chair of his HOA. One weekend, a family was out of town and asked some neighbors to check the place out each night, turn on some lights, shiat like that. These people left the lights on one night, and having your porch light on during the day was apparently a violation. This dude was walking ...


That is also the dude that gets his door knocked on at 4 in the morning, to discuss the finer parts of the HOA contract.
 
2013-02-13 01:55:14 AM  

Sum Guye: Why would anyone be willing to deal with an HOA?


Because sometimes it's next to impossible to find a nice house in a nice neighborhood without one. Believe me, it's one of our top criteria for a home when we start looking.
 
2013-02-13 02:00:06 AM  
Then again you could always bankrupt them with an OBAMA sign that was 4" over regulation height their own stupidity:

http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/10/2670545/homeowners-association-spat -b rings.html
 
2013-02-13 02:01:30 AM  
This is a pure shiat deal in all ways. You protest the HOA and the only recourse you have is to pay the dues fully before you are able to file a lawsuit against them. So it means if I protest against your communist tactics, I have to pay to be able to keep you from foreclosing on my home because I am protesting against your communist tactics..yeah.....let's see how this one plays out.
 
2013-02-13 02:01:35 AM  

fusillade762: So they can take away your house for unpaid HOA fees even if you're current on your mortgage?? How the flying f*ck does that work?


Same as property taxes.
 
2013-02-13 02:03:17 AM  

GleeUnit: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I have no problem with HOAs.  If you're dumb enough to sign up for one, you deserve what you get.

As someone who has never owned a house before.. How limited do your options get in your average suburban area if HOA's are an automatic "fark that" as you're looking for a place?  Are they pretty ubiquitous?


Ask your local real estate agent.  All you'll get here is speculation.
 
2013-02-13 02:05:20 AM  
Yeah, I know a guy that lives on the 32nd floor of a condo. He is in the process of foreclosure with the bank. He also hasn't paid HOA fees for several months. They disabled his key fob for the elevator and yanked his underground parking. Now he has to get consierge to let him up (after a couple of days of climbing the stairs for a few days). I know the HOA prez and they bent over backward for him, but dude refused to attempt any payment at all.
 
2013-02-13 02:06:54 AM  
If only there were some way to combine cop hate, HOA-hate and cyclist hate into into 1 thread, it would be the ultimate hate trifecta!
 
2013-02-13 02:07:26 AM  

Aquapope: Sorry, I'm a dumbass about HOAs.  If I want to buy a house and I have the money and it's what the current owner is willing to sell for... how does the HOA have anything to say about it?  Why is an HOA agreement required for me to buy the house?  What's the dang deal?


There's this thing called Wikipedia...
 
2013-02-13 02:10:14 AM  
I'm okay with this.
This isn't a bill that is being 'voted on.' This is a bill that is being proposed, and even the person proposing it says that it's not in a complete form. It has to start somewhere, and from a business perspective it's bogus for the homeowners associations to have to wait years for someone to pay their HOA dues while benefiting from them. In it's current form it's not viable, but that's what the debate process is for.
So perhaps instead of blasting anything in support of HOAs, say how you would adjust the bill so that it remains legally viable and significantly addresses the HOA issues.
 
2013-02-13 02:12:26 AM  

CutBoard: This is a pure shiat deal in all ways. You protest the HOA and the only recourse you have is to pay the dues fully before you are able to file a lawsuit against them. So it means if I protest against your communist tactics, I have to pay to be able to keep you from foreclosing on my home because I am protesting against your communist tactics..yeah.....let's see how this one plays out.


Contesting a parking ticket can be like that. You have to pay the $30 ticket and an $80 administrative fee up front before being granted a hearing. Then if you win (you won't win) you get the $30 back, but the admin fee is gone. I think I should pay my property taxes the same way. They have to fill every pothole between my driveway and my office up front. Then if I don't see any road surface imperfections (there will be imperfections) I'll pay my taxes. Seems fair.
 
2013-02-13 02:15:28 AM  
Odd that HOA leaders don't "disappear" more often. Gators don't leave much evidence, and Florida is full of em.
 
2013-02-13 02:16:27 AM  

Aquapope: DarthBart: Aquapope: Sorry, I'm a dumbass about HOAs. If I want to buy a house and I have the money and it's what the current owner is willing to sell for... how does the HOA have anything to say about it? Why is an HOA agreement required for me to buy the house? What's the dang deal?

It's usually on the deed.

Ok, but why?  The seller shouldn't care anymore, they're selling.  So how does it get on a deed, a doc that pretty much only describes a property and defines ownership.  And if, as the buyer, I say "Take that shiat off the deed!" who do I say it to?  Who has authority to remove it (or modify it, for that matter)?  Are these deed codicils sunshined or is that property under HOA influence forever?   Is it a civil contract kind of thing, in which case it shouldn't involve anybody but the seller and buyer, or is the city/county somehow involved?  What the hell?  I want that house and I don't want HOA stinking up the place!  So why can't that happen?


It is usually placed on the deed by the developer of the neighborhood. To remove a deed restriction, you have to get all the parties who can enforce the restrictions to sign off on removing them. In this case you'd have to go to the HOA and ask them to remove the restrictions. Not gonna happen. The only way you could get a restriction removed without that hassle is if the restrictions violated laws, such as "this property may only be owned by a white male".
 
2013-02-13 02:17:11 AM  

BolloxReader: And once again I say, if you live in a HOA property you are giving up what few rights property owners otherwise might have.

Might as well just rent, because you control zilch. And if you don't control, you don't own.

Enjoy your privatized government hell. I'd rather live in the ghetto (and I have) than a HOA community. At least when you are at the corner of The and Hood you know what's up.


Over-react much?
 
2013-02-13 02:19:22 AM  

SpdrJay: If only there were some way to combine cop hate, HOA-hate and cyclist hate into into 1 thread, it would be the ultimate hate trifecta!


How about this headline: Bicycle Cop Gets Off On Being Dick As Local HOA President, Stumps For Tea Party Candidate
 
2013-02-13 02:19:50 AM  

jjorsett: Gyrfalcon: OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.

Right, it would be much better to let deadbeats persist months/years at other's expense, racking up an increasing arrearage while the association limps along trying to keep the property from deteriorating and to meet its expenses, rather than forcing the owners to either perform on their obligations or get out and let in some people who can actually pay their bills.  At least the property will likely be bought by somebody who can afford it, and if not, the association will be no worse off since the departees weren't paying anyway.


That's more of a problem for the bank, as they will forclose on any real deadbeats. HOA's shouldn't have this "right". Loosen your bootstraps a little.
 
2013-02-13 02:22:46 AM  

slashmonkey: Then again you could always bankrupt them with an OBAMA sign that was 4" over regulation height their own stupidity:

http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/10/2670545/homeowners-association-spat -b rings.html


That was a very satisfying read.  Thank you!
 
2013-02-13 02:30:32 AM  

marcre3363: In theory, I'm against this.

In reality, I've been stuck running a 13 unit Condo building with assessments. And I understand the premise.

I had one unit that has been a thorn in my ass for years. She played the game all that time. While I spent hours of my personal time with lawyers, she was killing time and I had to deal with other unit owners complaining about her unit reaking of weed 24/7.

I've had to Sic attorney's on her twice in the last 18 months. Once went as far as where we evicted her, changed her locks and kicked her out. She "magically" came up with $4500 in back payments within 24 hours. In the six months before, I supervised the Gas and Electric company turning off her service because she was more than $1K overdue.

She was the rule. The exception to the rule are those that might miss a payment or two between a situation. But she was more than happy to play our building for years. She bought a brand new VW SUV, which she had for month before it was repossessed, then had a cab pick her up every morning for work while the rest of us walked to the train.

I think alot of these rules are crap. But when someone eventually buys her unit, in addition to taking our property values, the building will only re-coup six-months of back assesments. We're eating the cost of the thousands of dollars we spent to evict her previously.

Life's a game. She played it well and my hard-working neighbors and I are left footing the costs.


So...okay. Since you're being reasonable and have a fairly balanced view of this:

What was she getting for her HOA fees? How much were they, and why were they being paid? What was in the C&Cs that allowed her to smoke dope on the property 24/7 that nobody could call the cops and have her arrested? (Bearing in mind that she is the OWNER of her own property and gets to do as she pleases inside her own home, regardless of what it does to your "property values")

HOAs are a delicate balance between trying to keep the neighborhood nice and livable, and trying to restrict what people do in their own homes and their own property. It's not like an apartment where someone else owns the building and they can make the tenants do what they say. Much as you and your neighbors didn't like it, she was perfectly within her rights to be a borderline felon, spend her money on new cars and not on her utilities, and decline to pay for the upkeep of the common areas she wasn't using. If YOU want to do so, that's your right. HOAs are to benefit everyone; but they are essentially asking everyone to give up some of their personal rights.

I mean, its very sad that you got stuck with having to enforce this on a person who obviously didn't want to play the game your way; but consider that you and your fellow HOA owners and operators are basically saying "To live here, you must behave as if you lived in a home you don't fully own." That makes it good for everyone, but galling for many. If people tried to understand this on both sides of the equation, things might not come to this pass. Then we might not see court cases like yours, or people being sued for having fences the wrong shade of white.
 
2013-02-13 02:30:40 AM  
I predict an increase in arson
 
2013-02-13 02:41:18 AM  

Mikey1969: Because sometimes it's next to impossible to find a nice house in a nice neighborhood without one. Believe me, it's one of our top criteria for a home when we start looking.



If you buy a house built with the cheapest lumber and by the lowest bidding subcontractor, in about 10-15 years, being in a bad neighborhood or HOA is going to be the least of your worries.

In virtually every area in the country, empty property is relatively cheap. Once you have said property, you can get a home of your own design, with your own choice of materials, and your own choice of contractors, for about the same or less per sq ft as a similarly sized house on an HOA property, but without the inflated property costs and other fees thrown in by the developer.

Yes, you will have a hassle dealing with zoning and the various permit agencies, but that hassle lasts 2-4 months at most, and a good contractor will take care of most of that for you. A bad HOA lasts until you sell the house, and could very easily artificially devalue your house due to stunts like the one in TFA.

I've been yelled at for saying this before, but I still believe that anyone who lives in an HOA made a deliberate choice to live there. There are always other options available. Those options might not be wrapped up and stocked on the Wal-mart shelf like an HOA home, but they are available, and likely always will be.

The only downside to this option is that you might have to drive an extra 10 miles to get to the city. But given a choice between a long drive to my own house, or a slightly shorter drive to what essentially amounts to an expensive apartment, I'll take the long drive any day.
 
2013-02-13 02:55:17 AM  

fusillade762: So they can take away your house for unpaid HOA fees even if you're current on your mortgage?? How the flying f*ck does that work?


They are called DUES because you DUE have to pay them and they DUE take your house if you dont.  A realtor told me that while explaining I would be an idiot to buy a house I was looking at because that particular HOA was a nightmare.

So, remember that, people, if you are a pain in the ass HOA, it DOES drive your property value down worse than if someone has a non standard shade of peach on their mailbox.
 
2013-02-13 02:59:46 AM  
i40.tinypic.com

And don't even think about putting a basketball hoop in the driveway...
 
2013-02-13 03:02:49 AM  

boinkingbill: No one forced anyone to buy a house that has an HOA.  The homeowners have gotten exactly what they asked for.


Yeah, but repeated articles like this serve to educate the public about why they should not buy an HOA property.

Like I just said, they really serve no purpose, because a LOT of people would rather live between the clampets and the bundys than give up rights that usually come with ownership.

/ Al, not Ted.  I would rather have old Mrs Snoopybritches than a serial killer....
//  then again, *I* am not teds type.  hmmm
 
2013-02-13 03:10:20 AM  

the ha ha guy: I've been yelled at for saying this before, but I still believe that anyone who lives in an HOA made a deliberate choice to live there. There are always other options available.


Yeah, working through a contractor, even getting a spec home isn't in everyone's budget. Not all large scale builders are ripoffs, either. My wife and I were 100% able to afford a private contractor before we got screwed over and lost our down payment. Now, with the market recoverving, it will be iffy, but it is still going to be our first option.

And no, not everyone makes the "conscious" decision. Many don't know the alternative choices, can't afford it, or have taken bad advice. I see your point, but your "You've made your bed, now lie in it." response IS pretty much the dick response here.
 
2013-02-13 03:22:58 AM  
Because homeowners associations are never corrupt beyond all repair.

In 2006, condominium owners in Las Vegas' Vistana community were accused by a lawyer of dreaming up wild, Oliver Stone-like conspiracy theories as they complained about corruption in their community association.

After six years, more than two dozen guilty plea deals and four untimely deaths among witnesses or participants, the Vistana owners say they have been vindicated in their suspicions that...


/they're tracing this thing to Florida
 
2013-02-13 03:30:09 AM  

DigitalCoffee: SpdrJay: If only there were some way to combine cop hate, HOA-hate, cyclist hate, right-winger, and tipper hate into into 1 thread, it would be the ultimate hate trifecta superfecta High 5!

How about this headline: Bicycle Cop Gets Off On Being Dick As Local HOA President, Stumps For Tea Party Candidate

, Doesn't Tip Over 10% Because Jesus.
 
2013-02-13 03:41:01 AM  

jjorsett: Gyrfalcon: OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.

Right, it would be much better to let deadbeats persist months/years at other's expense, racking up an increasing arrearage while the association limps along trying to keep the property from deteriorating and to meet its expenses, rather than forcing the owners to either perform on their obligations or get out and let in some people who can actually pay their bills.  At least the property will likely be bought by somebody who can afford it, and if not, the association will be no worse off since the departees weren't paying anyway.


Glad to see someone playing devil's advocate in favor of mongoloids.
 
2013-02-13 03:50:54 AM  

DarthBart: Aquapope: DarthBart: Aquapope: Sorry, I'm a dumbass about HOAs. If I want to buy a house and I have the money and it's what the current owner is willing to sell for... how does the HOA have anything to say about it? Why is an HOA agreement required for me to buy the house? What's the dang deal?

It's usually on the deed.

Ok, but why?  The seller shouldn't care anymore, they're selling.  So how does it get on a deed, a doc that pretty much only describes a property and defines ownership.  And if, as the buyer, I say "Take that shiat off the deed!" who do I say it to?  Who has authority to remove it (or modify it, for that matter)?  Are these deed codicils sunshined or is that property under HOA influence forever?   Is it a civil contract kind of thing, in which case it shouldn't involve anybody but the seller and buyer, or is the city/county somehow involved?  What the hell?  I want that house and I don't want HOA stinking up the place!  So why can't that happen?

It is usually placed on the deed by the developer of the neighborhood. To remove a deed restriction, you have to get all the parties who can enforce the restrictions to sign off on removing them. In this case you'd have to go to the HOA and ask them to remove the restrictions. Not gonna happen. The only way you could get a restriction removed without that hassle is if the restrictions violated laws, such as "this property may only be owned by a white male".


Pretty much this.  It's fundamentally not voluntary, if it were, there would be no need for a formal HOA, people would just paint houses the prescribed colors and voluntarily pay fines and whatnot.

It's tied to the deed and not optional.  Once you sign the deed, you agree to civil responsibilities of paying the HOA and being liable for their fines.

The state can force an involuntary dissolution in cases of fraud.  It's gotta be pretty gross though, HOAs thrive on fraud.

There's always a way for HOA to agree to disband forever, dissolve itself.  In some cases, it's the members, in other cases- get this- only the directors vote on dissolution.  That's right, the very people ripping you off may have the only control.  You'd have to elect new directors with no other platform than dissolution.

% vote varies.  Sometimes it can be like 80% for dissolution.  The count of Directors alone might be a lot of that.

There's a problem in that a housing development may have aspects which REQUIRE an HOA.  For example, a condo could never work without an HOA, the HOA is responsible for the roof and foundation and lawns, owners only own the interior.  I wouldn't be surprised if a neighborhood had features which could be a "difficult" issue if left with no management, e.g. a private park area not owned by the city which needs mowing.  And insurance for that area.  If no one volunteers, you can't request money, even if you requested it, no one would be authorized to collect it and buy insurance on residents' behalf.
 
2013-02-13 04:04:15 AM  

davidv: This just in...Florida is a shiathole.

Curious: the unpaid dues are awarded as a judgement to the HOA and against you. the HOA sells the property to satisfy the judgement. some states have laws that protect your primary residence. it seems FL doesn't.


So they kick you to the curb and sell your $300,000 house to recoup their $500?

Somewhere someone thought this was reasonable action?  F/ck them, f/cking losers.
 
2013-02-13 04:05:56 AM  
Quick, libs! Side with delinquent non-payers! Talk some rubbish about fairness so they feel good about letting others down! Demand new laws to protect them! And new taxes to literally buy their vote!
 
2013-02-13 04:35:44 AM  

Mikey1969: I see your point, but your "You've made your bed, now lie in it." response IS pretty much the dick response here.



No worse than the pro-HOA people who claim that the one and only alternative to buying a house with an HOA is ending up in a neighborhood with a dozen cars on blocks and at least two meth houses.
 
2013-02-13 05:01:52 AM  
We don't have this problem in the trailer park.
 
2013-02-13 05:30:39 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: Quick, libs! Side with delinquent non-payers! Talk some rubbish about fairness so they feel good about letting others down! Demand new laws to protect them! And new taxes to literally buy their vote!


This... I'd add tho, tax exemption to the deadbeat debtors to make sure they don't have to pay the tax increase. It's like buying a car but you refuse to make payments and are confused as to why you should. Deadbeats are deadbeats are deadbeats.
 
2013-02-13 05:35:51 AM  

Aquapope: Ok, but why? The seller shouldn't care anymore, they're selling. So how does it get on a deed, a doc that pretty much only describes a property and defines ownership. And if, as the buyer, I say "Take that shiat off the deed!" who do I say it to? Who has authority to remove it (or modify it, for that matter)? Are these deed codicils sunshined or is that property under HOA influence forever? Is it a civil contract kind of thing, in which case it shouldn't involve anybody but the seller and buyer, or is the city/county somehow involved? What the hell? I want that house and I don't want HOA stinking up the place! So why can't that happen?


As I understand it, it's just a contract, much like any other contract..  In this case, a contract entered by the initial buyer of the house with the HOA corporation.   Removing it from the deed would put the buyer in violation.  How it carries along following bankruptcies or foreclosures is an interesting question.  There may be state laws to create exceptions for HOA's, as most contractual obligations would be voided after a bankruptcy.

Bad description by subby.  This doesn't force homeowners to pay the HOA.  The bill just says that homeowners need to pay their dues into ESCROW before embarking on a voyage of destruction against their HOA. The HOA would not appear to get anything until the court has made a determination. If the court decides against the HOA, the homeowner would seem to recoup all monies put in escrow.

Seems quite reasonable.
 
SH
2013-02-13 05:40:31 AM  
Ahh yes... our weekly HOA hate thread.

About time!
 
2013-02-13 05:46:31 AM  

BolloxReader: And once again I say, if you live in a HOA property you are giving up what few rights property owners otherwise might have.

Might as well just rent, because you control zilch. And if you don't control, you don't own.

Enjoy your privatized government hell. I'd rather live in the ghetto (and I have) than a HOA community. At least when you are at the corner of The and Hood you know what's up.


You are so getting a fine for having the audacity to have independent thought.
 
2013-02-13 05:51:20 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: Odd that HOA leaders don't "disappear" more often. Gators don't leave much evidence, and Florida is full of em.


And pythons, too.
 
2013-02-13 05:54:23 AM  
If you sign into a HOA you are basically saying "I want to be raped if I put even a toe out of line."

Deal with the consequences. You can always vote with you feet - and your wallet.
 
2013-02-13 06:12:31 AM  

GleeUnit: Are they pretty ubiquitous?


In some areas, inescapable if you want to own a home.
 
2013-02-13 06:29:13 AM  
I still like my HOA better than my previous neighborhood where  one neighbor built a lean to for his chickens up to the property line. The other neighboor built his daughter a castle tower storage shed which was still only 80 percent finished after two years.

No more BS from my neighbors. You know who does not complain about HOA's, people who buy more expensive homes, but not enough land. The obsolutely love their HOA.
 
2013-02-13 06:31:01 AM  
HOAs are a delicate balance between trying to keep the neighborhood nice and livable, and trying to restrict what people do in their own homes and their own property. It's not like an apartment where someone else owns the building and they can make the tenants do what they say. Much as you and your neighbors didn't like it, she was perfectly within her rights to be a borderline felon, spend her money on new cars and not on her utilities, and decline to pay for the upkeep of the common areas she wasn't using. If YOU want to do so, that's your right. HOAs are to benefit everyone; but they are essentially asking everyone to give up some of their personal rights.

I mean, its very sad that you got stuck with having to enforce this on a person who obviously didn't want to play the game your way; but consider that you and your fellow HOA owners and operators are basically saying "To live here, you must behave as if you lived in a home you don't fully own." That makes it good for everyone, but galling for many. If people tried to understand this on both sides of the equation, things might not come to this pass. Then we might not see court cases like yours, or people being sued for having fences the wrong shade of white.


I can't speak to HOA's (single family homes) but In the condominium form of ownership, what you "own" is essentially little more than airspace. The "unit" is a legal construct ---- it would neither exist nor be transferable as though it were real property, without the condominium law and the association bylaws. Therefore, you are subject to the use and occupancy restrictions in the bylaws, and any rules and regulations as enacted by the board.

/just sayin'
 
2013-02-13 06:34:50 AM  

Harry_Seldon: I still like my HOA better than my previous neighborhood where one neighbor built a lean to for his chickens up to the property line. The other neighboor built his daughter a castle tower storage shed which was still only 80 percent finished after two years.


Oh the horror?
 
2013-02-13 06:39:13 AM  
If you willingly finance your home loan through an HoA instead of an actual, reputable banking institution then I'm going to have to say you farking well deserve what you get, you astonishing moron.
 
2013-02-13 06:39:27 AM  
Even if you DON'T live in an HOA, your neighbors will still be assholes about petty shiat.
 
2013-02-13 06:44:24 AM  

fusillade762: So they can take away your house for unpaid HOA fees even if you're current on your mortgage?? How the flying f*ck does that work?


Mass. Real Estate attorney and HOA member here.

They're not "taking your house", you're failing to pay your bills, which is allowing them to go to court to ASK PERMISSION to force the sale of your house to pay said bills, AS YOU AGREED WHEN YOU BOUGHT THE PROPERTY.

The Founding Fathers trusted us enough to give us the Sixth Amendment right to make contracts; don't make them come up here :)

They don't get the house, and they're still in line behind the bank holding the mortgage, generally.

Also the HOA has a LEGAL DUTY to go after those fees, on behalf of all the other owners who aren't deadbeats.

If you can't afford a $200 a month condo fee, you're probably on the edge anyway...ownership isn't right for you, at least not right now.
 
2013-02-13 06:46:18 AM  
Oh, and the headline is, unsurprisingly, misleading.

You CAN challenge the amount due, you just have to pay up first, rather than dragging out the process.

If an HOA abuses this, you can still sue them for, let's see, loss of quiet enjoyment and tortious interference with contract, for starters...and I haven't even had my coffee yet.

This ain't the end of the world, even if it passes.
 
2013-02-13 06:47:42 AM  

ModernLuddite: Even if you DON'T live in an HOA, your neighbors will still be assholes about petty shiat.


Really?

I gave up my property for a week to let Extreme Makeover Home Edition build this next to me:

farm4.static.flickr.com

I couldn't take two steps out my own door without some pencil-necked rent-a-cop telling me where to stand 'because they're filming'.

Ultimately, hosting the tent town destroyed my lawn (and it never was repaired by the pro-bono folks who were finishing up the place- cause who cares once the PR opportunity is over, amirite?).

Despite all that, the lady had lost her home over a year ago, and her husband scarcely eight months earlier.  Despite the fact that she's still got about four kids she's raising on her own, I've only ever had to complain about them once.

Live next to better people maybe?
 
2013-02-13 06:51:51 AM  
Romero reports Florida becoming less habitable every day.
 
2013-02-13 06:53:44 AM  
I was looking at buying a nice, small house on a lake with some algae on it. The realtor mentioned that, "the families were trying to get a group together to pool money to remove the algae." The possibility there could be an HOA there someday was enough for me to leave running. I don't know who would think paying money for someone else to tell you what to do under threat of seizing your property was a good idea.

Damn you whoever started buying into the HOA bullshiat. Damn you to hell.
 
2013-02-13 06:59:54 AM  

ModernLuddite: Even if you DON'T live in an HOA, your neighbors will still be assholes about petty shiat.


Do what I do and just don't have neighbors.  Of course that means living in the sticks, spotty employment, and no pizza delivery, but what is life without compromise.
 
2013-02-13 06:59:58 AM  

SpdrJay: If only there were some way to combine cop hate, HOA-hate and cyclist hate into into 1 thread, it would be the ultimate hate trifecta!


a bicycle riding cop who is the prez of his hoa perhaps?
 
2013-02-13 07:00:50 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: Odd that HOA leaders don't "disappear" more often. Gators don't leave much evidence, and Florida is full of em.


that would be cruel!!!

/to the gators
 
2013-02-13 07:03:18 AM  
Development I am in had an HOA. Everyone in the development decided to do away with it, and it lapsed.
 
2013-02-13 07:04:36 AM  

jjorsett: Gyrfalcon: OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.

Right, it would be much better to let deadbeats persist months/years at other's expense, racking up an increasing arrearage while the association limps along trying to keep the property from deteriorating and to meet its expenses, rather than forcing the owners to either perform on their obligations or get out and let in some people who can actually pay their bills.  At least the property will likely be bought by somebody who can afford it, and if not, the association will be no worse off since the departees weren't paying anyway.


If they're such dickbags, who would move there?  At best, other, dickier bags.  It's like the Dead Sea effect in reverse.
 
2013-02-13 07:12:15 AM  

ModernLuddite: Even if you DON'T live in an HOA, your neighbors will still be assholes about petty shiat.



As is their right, just as it's my right to be an asshole right back.

But an argument over petty shiat is exactly that, petty. And without an HOA to take anyone's side, there's no possibility whatsoever that you'll be fined for dozens of false violations in an effort to run you out of the neighborhood, nor any chance that they'll foreclose on your house when you're unable to pay those dozens of fines within 30 days.
 
2013-02-13 07:16:23 AM  

RandomRandom: Aquapope: Ok, but why? The seller shouldn't care anymore, they're selling. So how does it get on a deed, a doc that pretty much only describes a property and defines ownership. And if, as the buyer, I say "Take that shiat off the deed!" who do I say it to? Who has authority to remove it (or modify it, for that matter)? Are these deed codicils sunshined or is that property under HOA influence forever? Is it a civil contract kind of thing, in which case it shouldn't involve anybody but the seller and buyer, or is the city/county somehow involved? What the hell? I want that house and I don't want HOA stinking up the place! So why can't that happen?

As I understand it, it's just a contract, much like any other contract..  In this case, a contract entered by the initial buyer of the house with the HOA corporation.   Removing it from the deed would put the buyer in violation.  How it carries along following bankruptcies or foreclosures is an interesting question.  There may be state laws to create exceptions for HOA's, as most contractual obligations would be voided after a bankruptcy.

Bad description by subby.  This doesn't force homeowners to pay the HOA.  The bill just says that homeowners need to pay their dues into ESCROW before embarking on a voyage of destruction against their HOA. The HOA would not appear to get anything until the court has made a determination. If the court decides against the HOA, the homeowner would seem to recoup all monies put in escrow.

Seems quite reasonable.


you think that's reasonable?
so it would be reasonable for someone to accuse you of owing them some arbitrary amount of money and you have to come up with that money and put it in an escrow account before you can even go to court? And if you don't they take your property? That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.
 
2013-02-13 07:17:25 AM  

PunGent: Oh, and the headline is, unsurprisingly, misleading.

You CAN challenge the amount due, you just have to pay up first, rather than dragging out the process.

If an HOA abuses this, you can still sue them for, let's see, loss of quiet enjoyment and tortious interference with contract, for starters...and I haven't even had my coffee yet.

This ain't the end of the world, even if it passes.


that is of course assuming you have an endless supply of money and an attorney on retainer to fight it, but I am sure that's what you meant... justice for the rich, right?
 
2013-02-13 07:20:08 AM  
I start tipping at 5%. If I get good service THEN I bump it up to 15%.

Don't even get me started on Obama going after my guns.
 
2013-02-13 07:20:49 AM  

GleeUnit: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I have no problem with HOAs.  If you're dumb enough to sign up for one, you deserve what you get.

As someone who has never owned a house before.. How limited do your options get in your average suburban area if HOA's are an automatic "fark that" as you're looking for a place?  Are they pretty ubiquitous?


Varies a little bit by area, but in general, most new homes are part of an HOA because of the incentives offered to the municipality and the developers.  In most cases, the HOA will be responsible for much of the infrastructure of its neighborhood, which relieves the municipality of a budget burden.  In exchange, developers are often allowed to more densely develop...thus more customers for a given sized subdivision.

Your best bet is to look for an older home if you want to avoid an HOA, but that then becomes an issue of your tolerance towards dealing with the material issues and outdated floor plans of an older home, all while brand new homes with updated stylings and layouts are being dangled in front of your face if you would just sign the HOA agreement.
 
2013-02-13 07:20:49 AM  

LDM90: I start tipping at 5%. If I get good service THEN I bump it up to 15%.

Don't even get me started on Obama going after my guns.


O.o
 
2013-02-13 07:24:57 AM  

Nuclear Monk: GleeUnit: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I have no problem with HOAs.  If you're dumb enough to sign up for one, you deserve what you get.

As someone who has never owned a house before.. How limited do your options get in your average suburban area if HOA's are an automatic "fark that" as you're looking for a place?  Are they pretty ubiquitous?

Varies a little bit by area, but in general, most new homes are part of an HOA because of the incentives offered to the municipality and the developers.  In most cases, the HOA will be responsible for much of the infrastructure of its neighborhood, which relieves the municipality of a budget burden.  In exchange, developers are often allowed to more densely develop...thus more customers for a given sized subdivision.

Your best bet is to look for an older home if you want to avoid an HOA, but that then becomes an issue of your tolerance towards dealing with the material issues and outdated floor plans of an older home, all while brand new homes with updated stylings and layouts are being dangled in front of your face if you would just sign the HOA agreement.


my grandmother recently passed away, and her home down here is from the mid 1950s... I would take that home any day over any modern built home in a heartbeat. It's built better (been through God only knows how many hurricanes and whatnot) and still looks like it was built yesterday (NOT an exaggeration). Homes built today last maybe 10yrs before you start having to replace shiat like the roof, and about 20-30yrs before there are structural issues. My grandmothers house has NONE of those issues and is somewhere around 60yrs old.
 
2013-02-13 07:36:19 AM  

1.bp.blogspot.com

There is one lurking in most neighborhoods

 
2013-02-13 07:39:05 AM  

SkunkWerks: I gave up my property for a week to let Extreme Makeover Home Edition build this next to me:

farm4.static.flickr.com


Jesus.  It's like they had 2 or 3 different things in mind.
 
2013-02-13 07:46:05 AM  
For gun owners, I wonder how the "stand your ground" (your home is your castle) concept works if someone is foolish enough to try to enter your home while you are living there and paying off your home. It would seem that anyone entering is essentially committing suicide by property owner.  You know, along the lines of "suicide by cop."  I would also demand that the Homeowners association pay for the cleanup of blood and any damages caused by the unathorized break-in by the sleazeball.  And, the HOA should be sued out the wazoo for any damages not covered by homeowners insurance.

You know, what this sounds like is the HOA's War on Property Owners.  And, my thinking is that the instigators of said war DESERVE TO DIE!  You know, in whatever way works best for said homeowner.  My thinking is if somebody is attempting to steal something I purchased and am in the process of paying for, the FOOL attempting to steal from me deserves what he gets.  Amirite?
 
2013-02-13 07:49:43 AM  

Nuclear Monk: Your best bet is to look for an older home if you want to avoid an HOA, but that then becomes an issue of your tolerance towards dealing with the material issues and outdated floor plans of an older home, all while brand new homes with updated stylings and layouts are being dangled in front of your face if you would just sign the HOA agreement.



The layout may be more up to date in a new development, but the construction is anything but. That old house will likely need maintenance every few years, but it'll probably last another hundred years if it's properly cared for.

Developments? Practically anything goes as far as construction is concerned. I've seen one house condemned after less than two years, and the developer claimed they aren't at fault because it passed inspection. Since then, at least two other homes built by the same developer have had similar issues, both of which were fixed by the developer in a deal to stay out of court.

Of course I'm sure there are legitimate developers out there who don't use scrap lumber and the cheapest labor they can find, but is it really worth taking that chance for something you plan on owning for at least the next few decades?
 
2013-02-13 07:57:43 AM  

LiteWerk: My thinking is if somebody is attempting to steal something I purchased and am in the process of paying for, the FOOL attempting to steal from me deserves what he gets.



When you sign the contract, you agree that "paying for" includes any and all fees and fines incurred by the HOA. Don't like those rules? Don't sign the contract. Don't claim some imaginary war against people whose only crime is attempting to enforce a legally binding contract that you explicitly agreed to with the purchase of the home.
 
2013-02-13 08:00:14 AM  
I'd never even heard of a HOA until Fark. Is it a southern thing, or just a new development thing? Not much room for new developments in New Jersey - we maxed out a while ago.

/lives on a street built in the 1890's
 
2013-02-13 08:03:04 AM  

davidv: This just in...Florida

Sen. Alan Hays, R  is a shiathole shiathead..

FTFY
 
2013-02-13 08:04:29 AM  

Yogimus: grimlock1972: First off a HOA should never be allowed to foreclose over dues they should send them to collections.   secondly this bill is a very had idea.

Thirdly i have a feeling the author of this bill is president or an officer in an HOA.

Or a republican.


Yes on republican.

Now, for the big prize money, what is the "One grass-roots group supports Hays' proposal" ?
 
2013-02-13 08:08:57 AM  
Them clothes got laundry numbers on them. You remember your number and always wear the ones that has your number. Any man forgets his number spends a night in the box gets foreclosed on.

These here spoons you keep with you. Any man loses his spoon spends a night in the boxgets foreclosed on.

There's no playing grab-ass or fighting in the building. You got a grudge against another man, you fight him Saturday afternoon. Any man playing grab-ass or fighting in the building spends a night in the box gets foreclosed on.

First bell's at five minutes of eight when you will get in your bunk. Last bell is at eight. Any man not in his bunk at eight spends the night in the box gets foreclosed on.

There is no smoking in the prone position in bed. To smoke you must have both legs over the side of your bunk. Any man caught smoking in the prone position in bed... spends a night in the box.gets foreclosed on.

You get two sheets. Every Saturday, you put the clean sheet on the top... the top sheet on the bottom... and the bottom sheet you turn in to the laundry boy. Any man turns in the wrong sheet spends a night in the box.gets foreclosed on.

No one'll sit in the bunks with dirty pants on. Any man with dirty pants on sitting on the bunks spends a night in the box.gets foreclosed on.

Any man don't bring back his empty pop bottle spends a night in the boxgets foreclosed on.

Any man loud talking spends a night in the box.gets foreclosed on.

You got questions, you come to me. I'm Carr, the forecloser. I'm responsible for order foreclosure in here.

Any man don't keep order spends a night in... gets foreclosed on.


Seems fittin'
 
2013-02-13 08:12:12 AM  

the ha ha guy: LiteWerk: My thinking is if somebody is attempting to steal something I purchased and am in the process of paying for, the FOOL attempting to steal from me deserves what he gets.


When you sign the contract, you agree that "paying for" includes any and all fees and fines incurred by the HOA. Don't like those rules? Don't sign the contract. Don't claim some imaginary war against people whose only crime is attempting to enforce a legally binding contract that you explicitly agreed to with the purchase of the home.


You realize that I don't disagree with you.  The point I'm getting at is that confiscating a property merely for missing paying for a months fees or dues is (maybe?) a bit much.  Do you get it now?  What if the homeowner ends up in the hospital with a serious medical emergency, or has been in a serious automobile accident?  You have no way of paying any of your bills under those circumstances.  Do you really think it is reasonable to have to forfeit your property when you had no way to pay your dues?

I was merely putting forth an extreme example in response to an extreme tactic.  Sometimes extremists have little compassion, care for, or understanding of those who are not like them.  What I'm getting at is a lack of reasonableness.
 
2013-02-13 08:14:01 AM  

grimlock1972: First off a HOA should never be allowed to foreclose over dues they should send them to collections.   secondly this bill is a very had idea.

Thirdly i have a feeling the author of this bill is president or an officer in an HOA.


Sen. Alan Hays, R-Umatilla
 
2013-02-13 08:17:15 AM  

Mcavity: RandomRandom:
Seems quite reasonable.

you think that's reasonable?
so it would be reasonable for someone to accuse you of owing them some arbitrary amount of money and you have to come up with that money and put it in an escrow account before you can even go to court? And if you don't they take your property? That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.


Exactly. What's to stop a HOA from literally saying "You owe us [pinky to mouth] One Million Dollars." They then start foreclosing. You'd need to put up $1000000 before you could even contest the fact that you don't owe them that amount. Of course, you don't have $1000000 lying around, so they foeclose on your house and 'reluctantly' accept its full value in lieu of the Million you don't really owe.
 
2013-02-13 08:18:30 AM  

organizmx: I'd never even heard of a HOA until Fark. Is it a southern thing, or just a new development thing? Not much room for new developments in New Jersey - we maxed out a while ago.

/lives on a street built in the 1890's


They're why I have to buy a house in a rural area. Think of it as never ending PMI on steroids.
 
2013-02-13 08:19:02 AM  

clovercat: Yogimus: grimlock1972: First off a HOA should never be allowed to foreclose over dues they should send them to collections.   secondly this bill is a very had idea.

Thirdly i have a feeling the author of this bill is president or an officer in an HOA.

Or a republican.

Yes on republican.

Now, for the big prize money, what is the "One grass-roots group supports Hays' proposal" ?


Is that mentioned in the article, because I missed it?
 
2013-02-13 08:24:52 AM  

LiteWerk: Do you really think it is reasonable to have to forfeit your property when you had no way to pay your dues?



I don't think it's reasonable to be asked to pay dues in the first place, since public infrastructure is supposed to be paid for via taxes to the government.

But if someone signs a contract agreeing to pay $100 each month indefinitely, and they refuse to do so for months or years on end, it's not unreasonable for the creditor to take the issue to court, nor is it unreasonable to enforce any provision that the court determines is valid.


If you don't want to be under the control of an HOA, don't join one. Simple. But don't use your unwillingness to read the fine print as an excuse to make wild claims that HOAs are declaring war against property owners.
 
2013-02-13 08:25:40 AM  

Gyrfalcon: OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.


Not to mention...do they then have to take over payments on the loan?
 
2013-02-13 08:41:33 AM  
The last thing those NIMBY politburos need is more power. HOAs are a thing that should not be. They had more property rights behind the iron curtain that Americans under a HOA do.
 
2013-02-13 08:43:39 AM  

verbaltoxin: clovercat: Yogimus: grimlock1972: First off a HOA should never be allowed to foreclose over dues they should send them to collections.   secondly this bill is a very had idea.

Thirdly i have a feeling the author of this bill is president or an officer in an HOA.

Or a republican.

Yes on republican.

Now, for the big prize money, what is the "One grass-roots group supports Hays' proposal" ?

Is that mentioned in the article, because I missed it?


www.sun-sentinel2.com

I think it's this guy. But I don't read thoroughly on this kind of stuff.
 
2013-02-13 08:45:52 AM  

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: I was looking at buying a nice, small house on a lake with some algae on it. The realtor mentioned that, "the families were trying to get a group together to pool money to remove the algae." The possibility there could be an HOA there someday was enough for me to leave running. I don't know who would think paying money for someone else to tell you what to do under threat of seizing your property was a good idea.

Damn you whoever started buying into the HOA bullshiat. Damn you to hell.


They could form whatever they want, they couldn't force you to join, pay or fall under their rules. If you felt really generous you could even offer to pay a monthly fee to cover upkeep of common areas etc but say you won't agree to subject to any rules regarding what you do with your home.
 
2013-02-13 08:49:58 AM  

99.998er: Yeah, I know a guy that lives on the 32nd floor of a condo. He is in the process of foreclosure with the bank. He also hasn't paid HOA fees for several months. They disabled his key fob for the elevator and yanked his underground parking. Now he has to get consierge to let him up (after a couple of days of climbing the stairs for a few days). I know the HOA prez and they bent over backward for him, but dude refused to attempt any payment at all.


He can't pay dues or mortgage, I will go on a limb, he's out of money.  Now what will be interesting is who will foreclose first.  I am wondering, can a HOA foreclose on a house/condo that has been foreclosed on by a bank and is up for sale?  I am sure a bank can still foreclose if the HOA take the house, but doesn't pay off the mortgage, which would crack me up.  I do know cities can take properties from banks for not paying taxes.  I just want to know if HOA has that kind of legal pull.  No way the HOA can foreclose on city property, so that would be funny as well.

I will find it very funny if HOA forecloses on a house that has 75% of the mortgage unpaid and back property taxes.  They take the house and laugh to themselves and the next day get foreclosed on by the bank who doesn't pay attention fast enough and the city takes it.  After all that, the house sat long enough to get the 'Detroit' treatment and the neighbors are stuck living next to the same thing they were paying all that money to avoid.  Some of that has happened up here.  Only the banks allow the property to taken by the city once the house suffered at the hands of criminals.
 
2013-02-13 08:57:42 AM  
"If you want to fight and prolong it, you have to pay up first," said Jan Bergemann, president of the nonprofit Cyber Citizens for Justice, a DeLand-based focused on associations. " .

Gotta love this. Another "Pay-to-play" scheme by a Republican legislator. Shocking.

/hates HOAs unless involves condominiums
//grew up in one, which fortunately seems to have mellowed out in recent years
///hope I'm not jinxing my parents who still live in one by saying this
 
2013-02-13 09:11:54 AM  

lack of warmth: 99.998er: Yeah, I know a guy that lives on the 32nd floor of a condo. He is in the process of foreclosure with the bank. He also hasn't paid HOA fees for several months. They disabled his key fob for the elevator and yanked his underground parking. Now he has to get consierge to let him up (after a couple of days of climbing the stairs for a few days). I know the HOA prez and they bent over backward for him, but dude refused to attempt any payment at all.

He can't pay dues or mortgage, I will go on a limb, he's out of money.  Now what will be interesting is who will foreclose first.  I am wondering, can a HOA foreclose on a house/condo that has been foreclosed on by a bank and is up for sale?  I am sure a bank can still foreclose if the HOA take the house, but doesn't pay off the mortgage, which would crack me up.  I do know cities can take properties from banks for not paying taxes.  I just want to know if HOA has that kind of legal pull.  No way the HOA can foreclose on city property, so that would be funny as well.

I will find it very funny if HOA forecloses on a house that has 75% of the mortgage unpaid and back property taxes.  They take the house and laugh to themselves and the next day get foreclosed on by the bank who doesn't pay attention fast enough and the city takes it.  After all that, the house sat long enough to get the 'Detroit' treatment and the neighbors are stuck living next to the same thing they were paying all that money to avoid.  Some of that has happened up here.  Only the banks allow the property to taken by the city once the house suffered at the hands of criminals.


Very good points made there. How can a HOA forclose on property?  Aren't owners or mortage lenders the ones in posession of the deed? I can understand how they could put a lien on your property but foreclosing by the HOA would be like Allstate auto insurancerepossessing your Camry.
 
2013-02-13 09:16:39 AM  

slashmonkey: Then again you could always bankrupt them with an OBAMA sign that was 4" over regulation height their own stupidity:

http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/10/2670545/homeowners-association-spat -b rings.html


That's some funny shiat.  The icing on the cake would be for some rich prick to buy the square, and build some ugly monstrosity on it, as a daily reminder to all the power-hungry HOA dicks who still live there of their folly...
 
2013-02-13 09:19:22 AM  
In the DC area if you make less than 100K, the only places you can afford have HOA's.  Unless you think living in the ghetto is viable.

A DMV HOA is a true terror to be hold.  I had one try fining me for algae on a north facing wall, that even during the height of summer was shaded by a large tree.  Not only that it was on a hillside so water drained all along the wall year round.  Of course there's going to be algae, what made it worse, noone could actually see that side of the house from their homes, you'd have to specifically want to see it.  They also tried dinging me for "faded" vinyl shutters.  When I offered to just remove the shutters(other houses in the area just like mine didn't have them) the Architectual Review Board said it'd change the character of the neighborhood.  Meanwhile the people across from me had a screen door that wouldn't shut all the way and banged about in the wind, their neighbors had strips of shingle hanging off the front of their house, my next door neighbor had a broken window, and his nextdoor neighbor had a front yard full of toys.   None of them ever got harassed by the HOA.

I sprayed the algae with bleach and pressure washed the shutters.  And thought that was the end of it, when I went to sell the house last year the HOA tried to halt the sale until those same items could be fixed.  Luckily the new owner didn't give a shiat and went ahead with the sale.

Now I live in a house twice the size, in a neighborhood that is only 20 years old, have a large yard, neighbors that perfectly maintain their houses, and have no HOA.
 
2013-02-13 09:22:29 AM  

Jim_Callahan: If you willingly finance your home loan through an HoA instead of an actual, reputable banking institution then I'm going to have to say you farking well deserve what you get, you astonishing moron.


I don't think you understand the term 'HOA'.  It has nothing to do with financing.
 
2013-02-13 09:24:49 AM  

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: I was looking at buying a nice, small house on a lake with some algae on it. The realtor mentioned that, "the families were trying to get a group together to pool money to remove the algae." The possibility there could be an HOA there someday was enough for me to leave running. I don't know who would think paying money for someone else to tell you what to do under threat of seizing your property was a good idea.

Damn you whoever started buying into the HOA bullshiat. Damn you to hell.


1.  Throw in some barley straw - that will get rid of the agae.
2.  No one can force an HOA on you after-the-fact.
 
2013-02-13 09:29:14 AM  

Yogimus: You can still kick in the HOA president's front door and rape his family as a sign of protest, right?




I prefer having 5 people put 20 boxes of forks in the yard, spray painting the grass blue and removing the valves from their tires or using dollies to move their cars to tow zones at night. SHarpies work well for screwing up their barcodes to get in the gate too.
 
2013-02-13 09:29:49 AM  

organizmx: I'd never even heard of a HOA until Fark. Is it a southern thing, or just a new development thing? Not much room for new developments in New Jersey - we maxed out a while ago.

/lives on a street built in the 1890's


Plenty of HOAs in NJ.  I owned a townhome in one for a few years.  Luckily, they weren't giant assholes like some of them are, but I did get a parking ticket from them once for not parking in a designated space, and a nasty letter after 9/11, for hanging an American flag from the railing of my deck.
 
2013-02-13 09:35:32 AM  

Flint Ironstag: Elvis Presleys Death Throne: I was looking at buying a nice, small house on a lake with some algae on it. The realtor mentioned that, "the families were trying to get a group together to pool money to remove the algae." The possibility there could be an HOA there someday was enough for me to leave running. I don't know who would think paying money for someone else to tell you what to do under threat of seizing your property was a good idea.

Damn you whoever started buying into the HOA bullshiat. Damn you to hell.

They could form whatever they want, they couldn't force you to join, pay or fall under their rules. If you felt really generous you could even offer to pay a monthly fee to cover upkeep of common areas etc but say you won't agree to subject to any rules regarding what you do with your home.


We have something like this. There's a HOA and a POA. Property owners association. It's voluntary. There's no rules except at the park/common area. Dues get you a key to the clubhouse and the pool and the tennis courts and other stuff. Anyone can join the POA too, not just the owners or even people living nearby, there's people who join it just to use the facilities. It's more of a social club. If you don't pay they just don't give you a new key next year.
 
2013-02-13 09:39:46 AM  

CheekyMonkey: organizmx: I'd never even heard of a HOA until Fark. Is it a southern thing, or just a new development thing? Not much room for new developments in New Jersey - we maxed out a while ago.

/lives on a street built in the 1890's

Plenty of HOAs in NJ.  I owned a townhome in one for a few years.  Luckily, they weren't giant assholes like some of them are, but I did get a parking ticket from them once for not parking in a designated space, and a nasty letter after 9/11, for hanging an American flag from the railing of my deck.


At my last place, the HOA issued new parking tags for the lot because they were concerned some people were counterfeiting them...for a lot that wasn't even full.  Anyways, the new ones were a lot lighter and would regularly fall off the rearview mirror.  The towing company figured this out, they managed to rock the tag off my mirror one night and towed me for not having a visible tag, even though it was in the floorboard, and visible.


assholes.
 
2013-02-13 09:48:26 AM  

xanadian: Jesus. It's like they had 2 or 3 different things in mind.


It's supposed to be a castle... I guess.  It's about 3000 square feet.  Most of which is, sadly, solely for the hour or so of show you see on ABC.

All told, I had about 15-20,000 people railroaded through here in the course of a week.  About 3-5000 were volunteer workers, the rest were spectators bussed in by the local Casino.

It was a nightmarish week, and the aftermath wasn't any prettier.  Yet, in the end, I think the family badly needed a home (even if they didn't need all 3000 sqaure feet), and I think they've been excellent neighbors.  Lived next door to them about 5 years before and 5 years after this, and I gotta tell you, only ever having to complain about a family with 6 children once in that time is a testament to something she must be doing right.
 
2013-02-13 09:48:48 AM  

Girion47: CheekyMonkey: organizmx: I'd never even heard of a HOA until Fark. Is it a southern thing, or just a new development thing? Not much room for new developments in New Jersey - we maxed out a while ago.

/lives on a street built in the 1890's

Plenty of HOAs in NJ.  I owned a townhome in one for a few years.  Luckily, they weren't giant assholes like some of them are, but I did get a parking ticket from them once for not parking in a designated space, and a nasty letter after 9/11, for hanging an American flag from the railing of my deck.

At my last place, the HOA issued new parking tags for the lot because they were concerned some people were counterfeiting them...for a lot that wasn't even full.  Anyways, the new ones were a lot lighter and would regularly fall off the rearview mirror.  The towing company figured this out, they managed to rock the tag off my mirror one night and towed me for not having a visible tag, even though it was in the floorboard, and visible.


assholes.


That would encourage me towards certain acts of petty vandalism against said towing company.
 
2013-02-13 10:00:15 AM  
In a few places, organized crime has expanded from the traditional prostitution, gambling, loan sharking, and drugs to Home Owners Associations.

Nice to see a legislator willing to go along with the gang on this one.
 
2013-02-13 10:01:18 AM  
HOAs, good and bad, are freely formed associations under civil law.  They need to stay that way, and not be given status as an organ of government by writing laws for their benefit.  This dances close to the edge of doing that.

Additionally, once the government starts collecting money from any source, the desire/need for it overrides the best interests of the public, so the state collecting dollars from HOA members to pay for regulation means more government intervention down the road.  Once the government is involved they won't leave, and that also encourages new laws to change HOAs, because the government is now "involved".

HOAs are really just an end run around participating in a broken system of local governments anyway, except in cases where there's a shared structure to manage.  For people with stand alone properties, the only reason to have an HOA is to exercise greater control over their surroundings and property than is legally possible in an open city government.  All those pesky rights people have.

All that said, people are responsible for their actions.  If you bought a house with a covenant, you're stuck.  You always have a choice, if not much of one.  It's when HOAs start gaining status as governments that you have a right to complain... they are like a child's model of a government, with all the major features but none of the fine details that make it fair and equitable.
 
2013-02-13 10:06:21 AM  
I'd like to see a law passed that HOA membership is voluntary upon purchase of a free standing structure.    If you have to force people to be part of your club, maybe your club isn't that great to begin with.
 
2013-02-13 10:06:22 AM  

Gyrfalcon: OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.


You've described, essentially, my neighborhood. A bunch of abandoned/foreclosed houses, and the HOA is up in arms because the dues aren't being paid.

They just sent out a long note about not putting trash out too early, saying that it makes the neighborhood look bad. Here and I thought it was the front doors covered in foreclosure notices that was making the neighborhood look bad.
 
2013-02-13 10:09:30 AM  
1. Dont buy in a HOA neighborhood
 
2013-02-13 10:10:42 AM  

Joe Blowme: 1. Dont buy in a HOA neighborhood


I like how you ignored all previous discussion about how not buying into an HOA neighborhood is quickly becoming an impossibility.
 
2013-02-13 10:11:47 AM  

jjorsett: Gyrfalcon: OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.

Right, it would be much better to let deadbeats persist months/years at other's expense, racking up an increasing arrearage while the association limps along trying to keep the property from deteriorating and to meet its expenses, rather than forcing the owners to either perform on their obligations or get out and let in some people who can actually pay their bills.  At least the property will likely be bought by somebody who can afford it, and if not, the association will be no worse off since the departees weren't paying anyway.


Yes, it would be.
 
2013-02-13 10:14:14 AM  

give me doughnuts: jjorsett: Gyrfalcon: OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.

Right, it would be much better to let deadbeats persist months/years at other's expense, racking up an increasing arrearage while the association limps along trying to keep the property from deteriorating and to meet its expenses, rather than forcing the owners to either perform on their obligations or get out and let in some people who can actually pay their bills.  At least the property will likely be bought by somebody who can afford it, and if not, the association will be no worse off since the departees weren't paying anyway.

Yes, it would be.


Not really, occupants prevent plumbing theft, provide lawn maintenance, and other little things that keep the house in sale condition.  A bank-owned property sits vacant and has absolutely no maintenance done, no matter what the HOA wants.
 
2013-02-13 10:19:32 AM  
While I find the entire concept of an HOA to be foreign and distasteful, I do understand why they exist. I also understand that people agree to pay those dues when they buy the property, and the HOA should have legal recourse to collect those fees. I do not for a second believe that HOA's should, under any circumstance, have the ability to foreclose on a property for late or unpaid fees or any other reason. I don't even understand the rationale behind the whole concept. If I owe a business or individual money for goods and/or services, they can't just come take my house away if I don't pay them. Hell, even credit card companies aren't that brazen! The only way anyone should EVER be able to evict me from a home that I own and claim it as theirs is if I knowingly and intentionally put the house up for collateral on a loan and then fail to follow through in repaying the loan. There are other legal mechanisms in place to try to claim that debt. In my state, the GOVERNMENT can't even legally confiscate my home for unpaid taxes, even if the amount owed is more than the value of the property. They can take other properties for unpaid taxes, but they can't take my primary residence. If even the government can't claim my property for unpaid bills, a jumped-up self-appointed board of neighborhood busy-bodies sure as hell should not have that authority.
 
2013-02-13 10:21:34 AM  

Girion47: Joe Blowme: 1. Dont buy in a HOA neighborhood

I like how you ignored all previous discussion about how not buying into an HOA neighborhood is quickly becoming an impossibility.


But it is still possible so quit crying or start your own HOA.. or move out of what ever stupid state you are in that forces you to buy in HOA.
 
2013-02-13 10:22:53 AM  
A) You can not enter in to a contract that violates the law and this probably does.

B) If you buy a home w/ a HOA you deserve what you get.
 
2013-02-13 10:25:22 AM  

super_grass: HOA threads are a breath of fresh air after 3 months of gun threads.

Flame away, kids.


The HOA can foreclose my home from my cold dead hands!!!!!


!



I used my man card and bought me one of these:

www.evike.com



/Man's home is his castle
//Sovereignty citizen
///Taxation is slavery
////Tip-a-canoe and Tyler too!
//Spork the HOA !!!!
//Power to the people!
 
2013-02-13 10:27:11 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: Quick, libs! Side with delinquent non-payers! Talk some rubbish about fairness so they feel good about letting others down! Demand new laws to protect them! And new taxes to literally buy their vote!


So... just to calrify... you would be IN FAVOR of a law that allows the HOA to force you out of your home without warning because you HOA check got lost in the mail ONE TIME?


Please answer with a simple yes no.
 
2013-02-13 10:41:15 AM  
I think it would be nice if the good Congressman sponsored a bill that said that no person could serve in Congress if they were charged with a felony.

goose = gander?
 
2013-02-13 10:41:30 AM  

Curious: fusillade762: So they can take away your house for unpaid HOA fees even if you're current on your mortgage?? How the flying f*ck does that work?

the unpaid dues are awarded as a judgement to the HOA and against you. the HOA sells the property to satisfy the judgement. some states have laws that protect your primary residence. it seems FL doesn't.


This is correct.

People really have no idea how much power HOAs have.

They can basically have a lien put on your home based solely upon their word against yours. They have the local Sheriff serve you a notice and you are farked......just that easy.
 
2013-02-13 10:48:05 AM  

Yogimus: You can still kick in the HOA president's front door and rape his family as a sign of protest, right?


I would acquit you
 
2013-02-13 11:01:30 AM  
WTF is it with all of these HOA's popping up all over the place?

As a kid, my family lived in a subdivision for a time. There was no HOA. Later, a larger subdivision was built across town and again, no HOA. Even today, decades later, neither of those places have HOA's.

If someone kept a trashy place, neighbors called in code enforcement, who would warn them to clean it up or face daily fines. If the circumstances were right, the city or county would go in and do it for them.

Where I live now is a subdivision that grew over the years and there is no HOA, but the several high end communities that popped up in the area where once there were groves and wild woods have them.

One has rules governing the amount and types of plants you may grow in your lawn. Another requires you to buy and use HOA designed mail boxes. Ages ago, we liked to grow little gardens on our property, but in these places with HOA's, you're not allowed.

Now, once I almost moved into an apartment building until the land lord gave me a list of the rules which included no parties, no pets, no BBQing on balcony's and limited overnight guests. I kind of understood, but chose to live elsewhere.

Back then, in some places, they didn't have an HOA, but a management office. You took your complaints to them.

In most communities, folks policed themselves.

Of course, my ideal home is one set in the middle of 5 acres of land and surrounded by a border of wild woods. I wish I could afford one.
 
2013-02-13 11:04:32 AM  

Rik01: WTF is it with all of these HOA's popping up all over the place?

As a kid, my family lived in a subdivision for a time. There was no HOA. Later, a larger subdivision was built across town and again, no HOA. Even today, decades later, neither of those places have HOA's.

If someone kept a trashy place, neighbors called in code enforcement, who would warn them to clean it up or face daily fines. If the circumstances were right, the city or county would go in and do it for them.

Where I live now is a subdivision that grew over the years and there is no HOA, but the several high end communities that popped up in the area where once there were groves and wild woods have them.

One has rules governing the amount and types of plants you may grow in your lawn. Another requires you to buy and use HOA designed mail boxes. Ages ago, we liked to grow little gardens on our property, but in these places with HOA's, you're not allowed.

Now, once I almost moved into an apartment building until the land lord gave me a list of the rules which included no parties, no pets, no BBQing on balcony's and limited overnight guests. I kind of understood, but chose to live elsewhere.

Back then, in some places, they didn't have an HOA, but a management office. You took your complaints to them.

In most communities, folks policed themselves.

Of course, my ideal home is one set in the middle of 5 acres of land and surrounded by a border of wild woods. I wish I could afford one.


That is my definition of paradise.
 
2013-02-13 11:06:15 AM  

fusillade762: So they can take away your house for unpaid HOA fees even if you're current on your mortgage?? How the flying f*ck does that work?


This is actually the law in Michigan, probably other states.

The same way the bank can take away your house for an unpaid mortgage even if you're current on your second mortgage and on your HOA fees: the HOA has an interest in the house as collateral against your debt obligations.  They can institute proceedings to collect your collateral if you default on your debt.
 
2013-02-13 11:06:59 AM  
I swear I must be the only person on Fark that likes their HOA.  It costs about $50 a month - for that I have access to 3 pools (including one that is for adults only), a couple open parks, a few playgrounds, and tennis courts that are all maintained.  Sidewalks that are not directly in front of homes (of which there are many) are shoveled when it snows.  In the fall, I only have to rake my leaves to the curb - they have a street-sweeper come once a week.  Last summer, I got a letter that said my shutters were faded and needed to be repainted, so I took 2 hours on a Sunday to repaint them - THE HORROR!
 
2013-02-13 11:20:23 AM  
When I was looking to buy in 2000, I told my relator "no HOA... period".  Find a nice place, make offer, offer accepted, no mention of HOA at all.  Until closing.

Stood up, told my relator that he was no longer my relator, apologized to the seller, closing person, bank rep, and sellers relator, and walked out.  Cost me my $1000 "ernest money", but was worth it.  Ended up buying a better build place cheaper just in the country with not quite 2 acres.
 
2013-02-13 11:31:00 AM  

Nuclear Monk: GleeUnit: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: 

Your best bet is to look for an older home if you want to avoid an HOA, but that then becomes an issue of your tolerance towards dealing with the material issues and outdated floor plans of an older home, all while brand new homes with updated stylings and layouts are being dangled in front of your face if you would just sign the HOA agreement.


Just one more reason why we're hunting for an older home.  I'd rather have a 1400 sq ft 1950's house in an established, HOA-free neighborhood than a 3200 sq ft, 2007 build McMansion with an HOA infestation.
 
2013-02-13 11:32:12 AM  

jjorsett: Right, it would be much better to let deadbeats persist months/years at other's expense, racking up an increasing arrearage while the association limps along trying to keep the property from deteriorating and to meet its expenses, rather than forcing the owners to either perform on their obligations or get out and let in some people who can actually pay their bills. At least the property will likely be bought by somebody who can afford it, and if not, the association will be no worse off since the departees weren't paying anyway.


The problem is that this simply assumes the HOA is in the right.  They aren't always.  The current system greatly favors the deadbeat, that's no reason to swing to something that's way out of whack in the other direction.

The real problem here is how slow the court system is anyway.  Fix that and legal delaying tactics become pretty much a non-issue.  End of problem.

Aquapope: Ok, but why? The seller shouldn't care anymore, they're selling. So how does it get on a deed, a doc that pretty much only describes a property and defines ownership. And if, as the buyer, I say "Take that shiat off the deed!" who do I say it to? Who has authority to remove it (or modify it, for that matter)? Are these deed codicils sunshined or is that property under HOA influence forever? Is it a civil contract kind of thing, in which case it shouldn't involve anybody but the seller and buyer, or is the city/county somehow involved? What the hell? I want that house and I don't want HOA stinking up the place! So why can't that happen?


Yes, it's generally permanent.  In *SOME* cases a HOA can vote to dissolve but that's not a realistic option if there is any common territory that has to be maintained.  You can't take a restriction off a deed.
 
2013-02-13 11:51:25 AM  

i.r.id10t: When I was looking to buy in 2000, I told my relator "no HOA... period".  Find a nice place, make offer, offer accepted, no mention of HOA at all.  Until closing.

Stood up, told my relator that he was no longer my relator, apologized to the seller, closing person, bank rep, and sellers relator, and walked out.  Cost me my $1000 "ernest money", but was worth it.  Ended up buying a better build place cheaper just in the country with not quite 2 acres.


Typically you can walk once you recieve the HOA docs without losing the earnest money.
 
2013-02-13 11:52:52 AM  

Girion47: Joe Blowme: 1. Dont buy in a HOA neighborhood

I like how you ignored all previous discussion about how not buying into an HOA neighborhood is quickly becoming an impossibility.


Bullshait. I have looked at houses for the last several months (I'm just starting to think about buying), and not ONE of them has an HOA. New construction, old construction, doesn't matter. If you don't want one, you don't have to have one.
 
2013-02-13 12:00:37 PM  

eggrolls: Girion47: Joe Blowme: 1. Dont buy in a HOA neighborhood

I like how you ignored all previous discussion about how not buying into an HOA neighborhood is quickly becoming an impossibility.

Bullshait. I have looked at houses for the last several months (I'm just starting to think about buying), and not ONE of them has an HOA. New construction, old construction, doesn't matter. If you don't want one, you don't have to have one.


Okay Mr. one of the oldest cities in the U.S.

Why don't you try pulling your head out of your ass and remember that there is more to this country that what is NE of Philly.
 
2013-02-13 12:13:53 PM  

Girion47: eggrolls: Girion47: Joe Blowme: 1. Dont buy in a HOA neighborhood

I like how you ignored all previous discussion about how not buying into an HOA neighborhood is quickly becoming an impossibility.

Bullshait. I have looked at houses for the last several months (I'm just starting to think about buying), and not ONE of them has an HOA. New construction, old construction, doesn't matter. If you don't want one, you don't have to have one.

Okay Mr. one of the oldest cities in the U.S.

Why don't you try pulling your head out of your ass and remember that there is more to this country that what is NE of Philly.

 
2013-02-13 12:17:51 PM  

Girion47: eggrolls: Girion47: Joe Blowme: 1. Dont buy in a HOA neighborhood

I like how you ignored all previous discussion about how not buying into an HOA neighborhood is quickly becoming an impossibility.

Bullshait. I have looked at houses for the last several months (I'm just starting to think about buying), and not ONE of them has an HOA. New construction, old construction, doesn't matter. If you don't want one, you don't have to have one.

Okay Mr. one of the oldest cities in the U.S.

Why don't you try pulling your head out of your ass and remember that there is more to this country that what is NE of Philly.


Precisely. HUGE swathes of land to build or buy, or find a house where you don't have to give a damn what your neighbors think. If those us packed into one of the densest housing markets in the country can do it, no one else has an excuse.

But if you want to live in cookie-cutter land and just can't get by without the community outhouse so your crotch spawn and his fellow Ritalin-addled house apes can have his birthday party without threatening your ulpholstery, I got no sympathy.
 
2013-02-13 12:17:55 PM  

lokis_mentor: I thought that was covered in the state constitutional ammendments, unless I read that wrong.


it looks like it is. so either the article was wrong, the legislator doesn't know what he's talking about or there is a way around that. can i pick a little of each one?
 
2013-02-13 12:27:24 PM  

PunGent: fusillade762: So they can take away your house for unpaid HOA fees even if you're current on your mortgage?? How the flying f*ck does that work?

Mass. Real Estate attorney and HOA member here.

They're not "taking your house", you're failing to pay your bills, which is allowing them to go to court to ASK PERMISSION to force the sale of your house to pay said bills, AS YOU AGREED WHEN YOU BOUGHT THE PROPERTY.

The Founding Fathers trusted us enough to give us the Sixth Amendment right to make contracts; don't make them come up here :)

They don't get the house, and they're still in line behind the bank holding the mortgage, generally.

Also the HOA has a LEGAL DUTY to go after those fees, on behalf of all the other owners who aren't deadbeats.

If you can't afford a $200 a month condo fee, you're probably on the edge anyway...ownership isn't right for you, at least not right now.


The problem in Florida is banks not taking reassigning the title after foreclosure and not paying dues for 2-3 years. In some, developments this is 1/2 the houses.
 
2013-02-13 12:29:49 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Nuclear Monk: GleeUnit: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I have no problem with HOAs.  If you're dumb enough to sign up for one, you deserve what you get.

As someone who has never owned a house before.. How limited do your options get in your average suburban area if HOA's are an automatic "fark that" as you're looking for a place?  Are they pretty ubiquitous?

Varies a little bit by area, but in general, most new homes are part of an HOA because of the incentives offered to the municipality and the developers.  In most cases, the HOA will be responsible for much of the infrastructure of its neighborhood, which relieves the municipality of a budget burden.  In exchange, developers are often allowed to more densely develop...thus more customers for a given sized subdivision.

Your best bet is to look for an older home if you want to avoid an HOA, but that then becomes an issue of your tolerance towards dealing with the material issues and outdated floor plans of an older home, all while brand new homes with updated stylings and layouts are being dangled in front of your face if you would just sign the HOA agreement.

my grandmother recently passed away, and her home down here is from the mid 1950s... I would take that home any day over any modern built home in a heartbeat. It's built better (been through God only knows how many hurricanes and whatnot) and still looks like it was built yesterday (NOT an exaggeration). Homes built today last maybe 10yrs before you start having to replace shiat like the roof, and about 20-30yrs before there are structural issues. My grandmothers house has NONE of those issues and is somewhere around 60yrs old.


Beware of survivorship bias.

Houses badly built 60 years ago have been repaired or replaced by now.
 
2013-02-13 12:44:43 PM  
Most (almost all) HoAs are outright delusional about the 'value' they provide. It's only rarely anything like their dues. As a rule of thumb, if you're paying more then $50 a month, or if there isn't real community property - pools, commons, etc. - that you get access to, it's a waste. "Protecting property values" is almost universally a sack of crap.
 
2013-02-13 01:01:21 PM  
Boy, the banks are gonna lose a lot of homes to this law.
 
2013-02-13 01:09:51 PM  

mcreadyblue: Beware of survivorship bias.

Houses badly built 60 years ago have been repaired or replaced by now.


THIS.

My home is from 1971 and it is not very well built. It is <u>fine</u>, but the ceiling drywall is sagging (blown-in insulation and they only glued it to the joists except on the edge of the sheets), doors are kinda crooked, etc.

I can fix these things so it is not a big deal, but the idea that houses from before 2000/1990/1980 are magically better is just false.
 
2013-02-13 01:21:09 PM  
This bill would never pass with a Republican majority, This is everything true Conservatives are against.  This guy needs to be shown the door.  even fellow republicans cant stand him.  HOA's are out of contol with power already last thing they need is more.

                                                        vvvvvvvvvvvv---complete farkin jerk---vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

complete farkin jerk==> static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-02-13 01:23:17 PM  

YixilTesiphon: I can fix these things so it is not a big deal, but the idea that houses from before 2000/1990/1980 are magically better is just false.



Any house from before 2000/1990/1980 that is still in good condition is likely going to be better than a mass-produced home built with rejected lumber and untrained framers.

Alternatively, get a 150+ year old stone house. You'll pay out your ass's ass for it, but your family line will die out before the house will.
 
2013-02-13 01:31:02 PM  

the ha ha guy: YixilTesiphon: I can fix these things so it is not a big deal, but the idea that houses from before 2000/1990/1980 are magically better is just false.


Any house from before 2000/1990/1980 that is still in good condition is likely going to be better than a mass-produced home built with rejected lumber and untrained framers.

Alternatively, get a 150+ year old stone house. You'll pay out your ass's ass for it, but your family line will die out before the house will.


Is this what people with old houses tell themselves to feel better about having an old house?
 
2013-02-13 01:42:47 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: PunGent: Oh, and the headline is, unsurprisingly, misleading.

You CAN challenge the amount due, you just have to pay up first, rather than dragging out the process.

If an HOA abuses this, you can still sue them for, let's see, loss of quiet enjoyment and tortious interference with contract, for starters...and I haven't even had my coffee yet.

This ain't the end of the world, even if it passes.

that is of course assuming you have an endless supply of money and an attorney on retainer to fight it, but I am sure that's what you meant... justice for the rich, right?


Again, if you can't make the $200 a month for the condo fees...yer losing the place one way or another.

The HOA doesn't get unjustly enriched through this...they get their bills paid, and MAYBE recover their legal fees.

And those fees are paid to an association of people in basically the same economic class as the deadbeat...not some caricature of the Monopoly millionaire.

Sorry if that interrupts the narrative in your head...
 
2013-02-13 01:46:37 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I have no problem with HOAs.  If you're dumb enough to sign up for one, you deserve what you get.


Try finding a recently built house that doesn't come with one.  :-(
 
2013-02-13 01:48:44 PM  

Girion47: Is this what people with old houses tell themselves to feel better about having an old house?



My house is new custom construction, so no, I'm only going by my experiences in prior older houses, and the hundreds of stone houses in my area from the early 1700s through the mid 1800s (these were historically insignificant farmhouses, so the vast majority don't get funding from the historical society for maintenance).
 
2013-02-13 01:53:55 PM  

pciszek: Try finding a recently built house that doesn't come with one.  :-(



It's only hard if you want to buy the cheapest house you can find. If you pay a little extra, you can get a custom built house on your own land with no HOA at all, and your property will automatically appreciate in value due to the extra land, better construction, and direct access to a public road.
 
2013-02-13 02:01:54 PM  

the ha ha guy: pciszek: Try finding a recently built house that doesn't come with one.  :-(


It's only hard if you want to buy the cheapest house you can find. If you pay a little extra, you can get a custom built house on your own land with no HOA at all, and your property will automatically appreciate in value due to the extra land, better construction, and direct access to a public road.


Because the median income of the U.S. supports this.
 
2013-02-13 02:31:20 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I have a problem with HOAs.  But if you're dumb enough to sign up for one, you deserve what you get.


This ^^^^^
 
2013-02-13 02:32:09 PM  

Girion47: Because the median income of the U.S. supports this.



The housing development going in up a few miles up the road from me has houses starting at $350k, for a 1500 Sq ft house on 2/10 acre of land.

My land (three acres) cost $40k, the house (1800 Sq ft) was $250k, the garage was $50k, and the various other costs were $50k.

So for $40k more, I got more square footage, more land, a separated garage, no HOA, and my property is already subdivided so I could sell off the other lots, use that money to pay off my mortgage, and still have plenty of cash left over.

Not every custom built house is a billion-dollar beachfront mansion, you just have to plan and build within your means.
 
2013-02-13 02:36:06 PM  
www.leadershipandcommunity.com
 
2013-02-13 03:20:12 PM  
One more reason why HOA's don't bring freedom, but subtract from it - especially when finding a non-HOA property is next to impossible.
 
2013-02-13 04:25:23 PM  

the ha ha guy: pciszek: Try finding a recently built house that doesn't come with one.  :-(


It's only hard if you want to buy the cheapest house you can find. If you pay a little extra, you can get a custom built house on your own land with no HOA at all, and your property will automatically appreciate in value due to the extra land, better construction, and direct access to a public road.


In many cities, there are no vacant affordable, in-town lots left to build on.  All the empty lots are way out of town.  Commutes to those locations are impractical/undesirable for many homeowners.
 
2013-02-13 05:13:31 PM  

jjorsett: Gyrfalcon: OK.

Foreclose on 7 or 8 houses because they owe you each less than a thousand dollars in back dues. You win, the families move out, and nobody else can afford to buy the homes and move in. So now your neighborhood is half-empty and now nobody is paying dues.

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your brilliant plan, but you just go ahead and start foreclosing you geniuses you.

Right, it would be much better to let deadbeats persist months/years at other's expense, racking up an increasing arrearage while the association limps along trying to keep the property from deteriorating and to meet its expenses, rather than forcing the owners to either perform on their obligations or get out and let in some people who can actually pay their bills.  At least the property will likely be bought by somebody who can afford it, and if not, the association will be no worse off since the departees weren't paying anyway.


Exactly.  Non-payment because a house is empty is no different than non-payment because the owners are simply choosing not to pay, and are still benefiting from the services being paid for by the other people who DO pay their bills.

We went through this at the condos where I live.  Can't speak for how it works in other associations, but in mine, If you get behind on your fees but talk to them about it, they're more than willing to work with you to get some kind of payment plan in place.

Its the people who don't pay up, ignore attempts to communicate, dodge all calls, and rack up thousands in back-dues that pisses them off because there really IS such a thing as an operating budget and things DO need to be repaired, services rendered.. What, you think the guy who plows the parking lot is going to say "oh, no problem, this one's on the house"?  Or the roofer?  The guy installing the new hot water heater?

Granted, a condo association isn't exactly the same as an HOA due to people living in individual houses, but the concept is still the same - shared expenses for shared services, and a set of rules you all agree to abide by.  Skipping out on your bills is no way to "protest" something you don't like, it just makes you a burden to everyone else living there.

All this being said, it's pretty f*cked up that you can be foreclosed on without any review on whether the unpaid bill is actually accurate.  There absolutely needs to be some kind of appeal process in place for this law to be remotely viable.
 
2013-02-13 05:18:07 PM  

Joe Blowme: But it is still possible


Many people tend to live where they work.  Possible?  Perhaps.  Practical?  That's a big 'if'.

I know around where I live, HOAs are pretty rare (which incidentally also happens to be East of Philly).  Other areas of the country aren't so 'blessed'.

The notion that you always have a choice is more than a little fallacious.
 
2013-02-13 06:13:57 PM  

AccuJack: HOAs, good and bad, are freely formed associations under civil law.  They need to stay that way, and not be given status as an organ of government by writing laws for their benefit.  This dances close to the edge of doing that.

Additionally, once the government starts collecting money from any source, the desire/need for it overrides the best interests of the public, so the state collecting dollars from HOA members to pay for regulation means more government intervention down the road.  Once the government is involved they won't leave, and that also encourages new laws to change HOAs, because the government is now "involved".

HOAs are really just an end run around participating in a broken system of local governments anyway, except in cases where there's a shared structure to manage.  For people with stand alone properties, the only reason to have an HOA is to exercise greater control over their surroundings and property than is legally possible in an open city government.  All those pesky rights people have.

All that said, people are responsible for their actions.  If you bought a house with a covenant, you're stuck.  You always have a choice, if not much of one.  It's when HOAs start gaining status as governments that you have a right to complain... they are like a child's model of a government, with all the major features but none of the fine details that make it fair and equitable.


This. HOAs are virtually unknown in the UK and yet somehow the country isn't full of cars on blocks, overgrown gardens and, worst of all, people leaving their cars parked in their own drive overnight!
The local council takes care of most issues and is far more accountable and open than a HOA and there are legally defined laws and procedures, and appeals, open to people. I'd far father deal with the council than some neighbourhood asshole on a power trip.
For new developments the developer can putcovenants in the property deeds. Mine has no caravans to be parked in the drive while occupied, wood window frames only etc, but it is the council who enforce these rules if and when someone complains. Those rules cannot be changed after you buy your house, so you know exactly what you are getting.
 
2013-02-13 08:18:03 PM  

Flint Ironstag: The local council takes care of most issues and is far more accountable and open than a HOA and there are legally defined laws and procedures, and appeals, open to people. I'd far father deal with the council than some neighbourhood asshole on a power trip.


We actually have something similar here in the states- in the municipalities.

It's called a Planning and Zoning Board.  Works well around here anyway.
 
2013-02-13 09:05:08 PM  

SkunkWerks: Flint Ironstag: The local council takes care of most issues and is far more accountable and open than a HOA and there are legally defined laws and procedures, and appeals, open to people. I'd far father deal with the council than some neighbourhood asshole on a power trip.

We actually have something similar here in the states- in the municipalities.

It's called a Planning and Zoning Board.  Works well around here anyway.


Then why have a HOA?
 
2013-02-13 09:52:36 PM  

Flint Ironstag: SkunkWerks: Flint Ironstag: The local council takes care of most issues and is far more accountable and open than a HOA and there are legally defined laws and procedures, and appeals, open to people. I'd far father deal with the council than some neighbourhood asshole on a power trip.

We actually have something similar here in the states- in the municipalities.

It's called a Planning and Zoning Board.  Works well around here anyway.

Then why have a HOA?


People think they can do better maybe?

Also, it's probably worthwhile to note that "around here" is New England- municipalities cover a lot smaller territories than they do in states west and south of us.  I rather imagine that distance is a factor in effective enforcement and implementation of P&Z codes and bylaws.
 
2013-02-13 10:12:59 PM  

SkunkWerks: Flint Ironstag: SkunkWerks: Flint Ironstag: The local council takes care of most issues and is far more accountable and open than a HOA and there are legally defined laws and procedures, and appeals, open to people. I'd far father deal with the council than some neighbourhood asshole on a power trip.

We actually have something similar here in the states- in the municipalities.

It's called a Planning and Zoning Board.  Works well around here anyway.

Then why have a HOA?

People think they can do better maybe?

Also, it's probably worthwhile to note that "around here" is New England- municipalities cover a lot smaller territories than they do in states west and south of us.  I rather imagine that distance is a factor in effective enforcement and implementation of P&Z codes and bylaws.


That's the big difference. In the UK there is not a single house on the mainland that isn't under a local council for planning, building code, garbage collection etc.
 
2013-02-14 04:55:36 AM  

FizixJunkee: In many cities, there are no vacant affordable, in-town lots left to build on.  All the empty lots are way out of town.  Commutes to those locations are impractical/undesirable for many homeowners.



Inconvenient is not impossible, though many claim the two are identical when it comes to finding a non-HOA property.

In my experience, the biggest hassle with finding a non-HOA property isn't the lack of available properties, or even the "high price" of said properties (I've never seen an empty residental-zoned lot for over $50k/acre, and that was for a lot within a major city), the problem is the realtors who make up horror stories about neighborhoods without HOAs. Of course their opinion is absolutely unbiased and factual, please pay no attention to the fact their agency represents several local developers.
 
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