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(Time)   Video game sales are dropping like cement shoes because gamers have discovered a thing called "real life" which includes neat skill trees such as talking, going outside, and being nice to strangers   (business.time.com) divider line 354
    More: Unlikely, technology tree, smart device, gamers, Wii U.  
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4637 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Feb 2013 at 2:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-13 03:58:50 AM
You are likely to be eaten by a grue...
 
2013-02-13 04:04:42 AM

Rincewind53: This is a great time to mention my "Entertainment Value Calculator" when figuring out whether to buy a video game. Basically, figuring that these days, the average cost of a movie is $12, and provides around 2 hours of entertainment, then if a video game is $60, it should provide at a minimum 10 hours of entertainment. If a game only has a six hour single player, and I don't intend to use the multiplayer, I'd wait until the price dropped to at least $36.


It's a good thing Maxis didn't know about this or between SimCity 2000, SimCity 3000 and SimCity 4 I'd have probably owed them $20000 by the time I entered high school. Add in the Super Solvers series, Math Munchers, Math Rescue, Word Rescue, Operation Neptune, all the rest of 'em from MECC and TLC...

The best way to teach kids is when they don't even realize they're learning.

/Sandbox games FTW
//Best part? Replayable forever!
 
2013-02-13 04:36:18 AM

sendtodave: Snotnose: At $60 they cost too much.  And if you buy a game used you don't get all the content unless you pay more $$$ to the company.

Fark that, at $60 new I expect to be able to resell my game and let the buyer get full value from it.

I remember NES games that cost $60 in the 80s.


And then there's the $200 pile of puke known as action 52.
 
2013-02-13 04:48:41 AM

naughtyrev: Clearly the being nice to strangers skill tree is underpowered, since no one ever specs that way.


There goes my build.
 
2013-02-13 04:54:48 AM

Rincewind53: Mike_LowELL: People don't want to pay sixty dollars for the software

I blame Steam sales and a weak economy for that. Video games are  cheaper than they've ever been, and as I discussed before, the $60 price point is actually lower than video games should be priced if they'd kept up with inflation.


For 99% of games I just wait until they are around $5 on steam before I buy them - I already have hundreds of games I haven't played, so there seems little point paying a premium for yet another variation of the same game with a slightly different gimmick (if even that).
 
2013-02-13 04:58:56 AM

Lanadapter: sendtodave: Snotnose: At $60 they cost too much.  And if you buy a game used you don't get all the content unless you pay more $$$ to the company.

Fark that, at $60 new I expect to be able to resell my game and let the buyer get full value from it.

I remember NES games that cost $60 in the 80s.

And then there's the $200 pile of puke known as action 52.


I also remember games in the 80s that cost £1.99 new. Where are the new games at the bottom end that should cost £5 (with over 10 hours of gameplay)?

If we take inflation as the marker the price range for games should be £5-£50 ($7-$75) or thereabouts.
 
2013-02-13 04:59:33 AM
Also console games have declining market share partly because PC gaming is undergoing a revival.
 
2013-02-13 05:00:08 AM

RDixon: You are likely to be eaten by a grue...


Plugh
 
2013-02-13 05:02:58 AM
PC gaming is doing well, thanks.


And hopefully a new generation of consoles means we have to put up with slightly less shiatty games.
 
2013-02-13 05:57:32 AM
Everyone's got a list of must-have new games to buy and I'm just sitting here downloading a couple PS2 titles.  I'm good to go for quite a while & the only expenses were a few dollars power & internet to download 'em.
 
2013-02-13 06:14:00 AM

Spaced Cowboy: Dafuq!? I'm at about 270 hours in Skyrim and I've played through fully with 2 characters and am about 75% through a 3rd character playthrough with some new mods and quests installed.


I've got a character who didn't do any of the Civil war stuff, and still hasn't done any Dawnguard or Companions quests, not to mention probably plenty of other random quests that may pop up here and there (she has completed the main story and the Dragonborn DLC, as well as the Mages Guild, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood quests, as well as all of the Daedric quests). That character has 145 hours. I don't know how many hours the Companions or Dawnguard quests would add, but I could easily imagine hitting 200 if I decided to continue with that character.

I've actually decided to roll a new one, though, because she's so powerful that nothing at all is a challenge any more, even set on Master and with Deadly Dragons installed.

It's kind of ridiculous (but AWESOME) how huge Skyrim is and how much there is possible to do in this game. :D
 
2013-02-13 06:18:12 AM

Mike_LowELL: I'll go ahead and address the talking points right now:

Basically, the new digital revolution (mobile gaming, Steam, free-to-play, etc.) has completely redefined what people are willing to pay for a video game


True to some extent, but basically it's hijacked all the casual gamers who can now play for pennies on a mobile phone/tablet/facebook. The Facebook part is interesting as I think it's introduced a lot of female gamers to the scene (but they won't move to traditional console/pc)

Or, you can convince yourselves that the disappointing sales of the 3DS, Vita, and Wii U, and the bankruptcy of a billion-dollar game publisher (THQ) are all just a fluke and that everything is going to be back to normal ...

3DS and Wii U are just gimmicked variations on a theme and the Vita is far too expensive for a casual platform when you already have a phone.

Motion control is not such a gimmick any more, and the success of Kinect after the Wii shows that. Next gen motion control is expected to be better, and some of the stuff that XBox are looking at in particular is pretty cool (the immersive project-the-game-around-the-room stuff).

So there's some interesting things on the horizon, PC titles are looking more interesting partly in thanks to the various Kickstarter projects that are producing games that people have actively shown they want. Consoles are not dead yet, and media integration is helping them stay alive at this point. The new iteration should be interesting, as is the next set of PC titles that don't require a bleeding edge rig to run.
 
2013-02-13 06:25:19 AM

RexTalionis: Either that or we are at the end of this console generation and everyone is waiting for the next console release.


Also, $60 for a 4 hour single player and all resources of the dev were poured into multiplayer.

And Free to play mmos.
 
2013-02-13 06:27:35 AM
i.huffpost.com

I'm sure it has nothing to do with crappy video games, or the fact that we're in the last phase of the current console generation.  Try doing this survey when Bioshock Infinite comes out.

/DRTFA
 
2013-02-13 06:33:10 AM
Well, currently actually-essentially-free games like the "price of a sandwich" stuff on steam, league of legends, Tribes, etc are competing with "you have to pay 60$ for the game, and then you have to give us another 60$ over the course of a few months to still have a fully functional game then" on the console market.

This isn't really _that_ big a mystery, guys.  Microtransaction and on-disc DLC work for... well, basically games whose initial and continuing costs otherwise are "nothing whatsoever" or "like a couple bucks or something" at most.  If you sell us something priced as a full game, and then it isn't, we're going to stop buying 'em after the first couple of times.  If you charge us 70$ for a game, and the first content update is released a month later and is a couple extra levels with no mechanics changes that costs another 15$ and breaks compatibility for multiplayer, then you haven't just wasted 15$, you've wasted 85$.

Consumer tolerance for that shiat is, well, limited.  Look what happened with the music industry and DRM.  We put up with inconsistent attempts at varying monetization schemes and the really draconian stuff for about five years, then it became near-impossible to sell us the shiat on the more absurdly arbitrarily inconvenient models.  Coincidentally, experiments with alternate monetization in the video game industry?  Hitting about the five-year mark there.
 
2013-02-13 06:33:18 AM

Declines in console and physical games.

Yup.  Most likely culprits?

lh3.ggpht.com
lh3.ggpht.com
 lh3.ggpht.com
i1167.photobucket.com
lh3.ggpht.com



Independent and casual games are booming.  I just looked up Call of Duty Black Ops II + Nuketown 2025 DLC on Amazon.

MSRP $119.99

Really?  Really really?  So I can pay 120 bucks for a game that's the same hoary old FPS that I played back with one of the Wolfenstein remakes?

OR I can buy six indie games for the same price, have the money go directly to the game makers, have a completely different gaming experience than I've ever had before, and know that my money will support them making more innovative games.

Why on earth would I pay money for a console these days?  Fark that noise.
 
2013-02-13 06:45:29 AM

Rincewind53: Snotnose: At $60 they cost too much.  And if you buy a game used you don't get all the content unless you pay more $$$ to the company.

Fark that, at $60 new I expect to be able to resell my game and let the buyer get full value from it.

At $60, games are actually  below what they should be if the costs had risen with inflation. 15 years ago, games were $50. If they'd kept up with inflation, they should be $71 now. And some games were priced at $50 back in 1990, where it would be $87 in modern money.

That you think video games are more expensive today reflects a lack of understanding of inflation.  Not only that, but thecostof production of video games has skyrocketed since the old days, so the video game companies would be justified in raising prices anyway. Which they haven't, because in inflation-adjusted dollars, video games are cheaper now than ever.


The cost of some things should go down not up as they implement new technology and trend differently than inflation alone would indicate.  Like how I can buy a song now for 99 cents where as 20 years ago  I had to buy the  5.99 single CD (that probably included some other shiatty song I didn't want.)

And the cost of producing an actual video game has not skyrocketed.  The cost of the yearly cycle of advetising the same COD retread has.  Writing a good story or making clever puzzles to solve costs  relatively the same as before, as the number of decent cheaper indie games available would indicate.

My opinion anyway.
 
2013-02-13 06:47:50 AM
Or maybe video games are a niche thing, and after a while you just won't sell anymore consoles because you couldn't possibly convince a 60 year old divorced waitress to buy an Xbox 360?
 
2013-02-13 06:48:08 AM
Going Outside? Is that for iOS? It's not one of those Facebook Cow-Clickers is it?

Video games are dying...yeah, keep dreaming.
 
2013-02-13 06:51:18 AM
I know I'm buying many fewer games than I used to, but it's not because of cost.

I'm just getting real tired of buying a game only to find DLC needed to make it "complete," increasing DRM hassles, and way too much similarity in single-player games. When you add in all the console features for the interface, flashing/annoying quest markers, and all the apparent hand-holding, games just aren't as much fun for me as they used to be.

For some reason, it's too easy for me to get bored after playing for more than an hour.

/Yeah, I'm old and out of the demographic, so my input can be discounted.
 
2013-02-13 06:52:27 AM

Rincewind53: At $60, games are actually  below what they should be if the costs had risen with inflation.


Average income hasn't kept up with inflation, so while games are priced what they should be, people don't have the equivalent disposable income to spend on them. Ergo, to most people, $60 is too much to spend on games when they are used to $50.

manimal2878: And the cost of producing an actual video game has not skyrocketed.


Actually it has. Games are far more complex than they used to and take longer to develop triple-a titles.
 
2013-02-13 06:52:40 AM

Mike_LowELL: This novelty in this generation of consoles was "online multiplayer" and "media console functionality", and for the dominant Wii, "motion controls".  The new generation of consoles, so far as I can tell, offers zero new novelty.  So yeah.  There you go.


The novelty of multiplayer?  I've been playing and enjoying multiplayer games for almost 15 years now, any day now the novelty should wear off.
 
2013-02-13 06:57:27 AM

YodaBlues: Actually it has. Games are far more complex than they used to and take longer to develop triple-a titles.


Again, there are plenty of cheap games that are fun and cool, like all the indie games, that do not cost $60 and do not appear to be anywhere near as complex to code as a triple-A title.  Nor do they have a bloated advertising budget contributing to that cost.

I find it hard to believe a game like Limbo is exceptionally more complex to code than previous generation  side scrolling platformers.
 
2013-02-13 07:00:58 AM
I just got Skyrim for Christmas and will be getting Dragonborn with the tax return. I'm not going to be buying anything else anytime soon. I've barely touched the southern half of.the map.

I can't believe some people want all of Tamriel for ES VI. It would take five years just to scratch the surface of the game.
 
2013-02-13 07:01:07 AM
...or maybe sales are dropping because there haven't been any decent quality games out there.  Other than putting out the prettiest, most vapid FPSs, most game companies are mailing it in.  I remember the days when Witcher 2, Dark Souls, Skyrim, and Kingdom of Amalur all came out within a few months of one another.  Now?  When I look at the new releases, I see NOTHING I am interested in until NEXT JANUARY (excepting, possibly, Dark Moon for my son).
 
2013-02-13 07:02:52 AM

King Keepo: 3DS and Wii U are just gimmicked variations on a theme and the Vita is far too expensive for a casual platform when you already have a phone.


The 3DS only exists because DS games are too easy to pirate, so Nintendo started from scratch.
 
2013-02-13 07:03:39 AM

Spaced Cowboy: State_College_Arsonist: Well, as a PC player, I generally don't buy titles at launch unless it's something I really want.  Otherwise, I wait a while for the price to drop, especially if the game is available on Steam and is likely to be discounted during the summer and winter sales.

Also, I'm not going to buy new games at launch if I'm still busy with other games.  My Skyrim campaign is over 200 hours, and I'm not even at the civil war quest line yet.

/got burned a few times on launch day buys, too.  I'm looking at you, Treyarch.

Dafuq!?  I'm at about 270 hours in Skyrim and I've played through fully with 2 characters and am about 75% through a 3rd character playthrough with some new mods and quests installed.

Even with mods, what did you find to do for 200 hours with just one character?



I hit nearly 300 hours on the xbox before taking the plunge into PC gaming in order to have fun with mods. I had only just met the Blades before making the switch to PC.

You rack up the hours rather easily while out dawdling around and looking at stuff. Can I climb that mountain over there? I wonder where that river goes? Fer example, I climbed up the back of the Stormcloak camp near Whiterun to see if it went anywhere and ended up at Darkwater Pass. Do that enough times and there's your 300 hours right there. I'm at about 104 hours on the PC and haven't even been to all of the hold capitals yet.
 
2013-02-13 07:06:31 AM
I'm making money and paying bills...
 
2013-02-13 07:07:00 AM

Copperbelly watersnake: I just got Skyrim for Christmas and will be getting Dragonborn with the tax return. I'm not going to be buying anything else anytime soon. I've barely touched the southern half of.the map.

I can't believe some people want all of Tamriel for ES VI. It would take five years just to scratch the surface of the game.


Holy fark, I would need a massage chair and an IV line with a constant drip of coffee in order to even contemplate finishing a tenth of a game that big.
 
2013-02-13 07:09:03 AM

YodaBlues: Actually it has. Games are far more complex than they used to and take longer to develop triple-a titles.


Except triple-A titles are mostly terrible, and while graphics have improved pretty dramatically since 1995, they haven't really since 2003/2005ish.  This generation of consoles has actually pretty much stayed par with PC gaming graphics-wise.  The inflated cost is forced stuff like segregated departments working multiple projects, design by committee, and using hollywood accounting (or actual hollywood people) and has nothing to do with the actual necessary work-hours to produce a given game.

It's a little hard to argue that the big budgets are necessary when other studios are doing it for 1/10 to 1/100th the cost and getting equal or even superior products out, or when two sequential CoD games are functionally indistinguishable and run on literally the same engine but the studio claims the development of the latter is 10% higher than the former or whatever.

The movie analogy's a pretty good one, the old saying is "no hollywood movie ever made a cent after expenses", that's what game studios big enough to get away with it are doing, that's all.
 
2013-02-13 07:14:03 AM
erik-k:
It's a good thing Maxis didn't know about this or between SimCity 2000, SimCity 3000 and SimCity 4 I'd have probably owed them $20000 by the time I entered high school. Add in the Super Solvers series, Math Munchers, Math Rescue, Word Rescue, Operation Neptune, all the rest of 'em from MECC and TLC...

Then don't look at the new "SimCity" (aka SimsVillage).  It' s$60 base, you must be connected to the EA servers at all time with a very limited save space but already mentioned you can buy more save space.  Oh always-online = no in-depth mod but don't worry, the new SimCity Store will give you all the DLC you want for a price.  Now ou have to pay $60, can't run it without EA, can't mod, but can buy hundreds in extra DLC

They've lost my business forever.
 
2013-02-13 07:14:26 AM

andrewagill: Declines in console and physical games.

Yup.  Most likely culprits?

[lh3.ggpht.com image 700x221]
[lh3.ggpht.com image 400x234]
 [lh3.ggpht.com image 288x267]
[i1167.photobucket.com image 480x480]
[lh3.ggpht.com image 320x240]

Independent and casual games are booming.  I just looked up Call of Duty Black Ops II + Nuketown 2025 DLC on Amazon.

MSRP $119.99

Really?  Really really?  So I can pay 120 bucks for a game that's the same hoary old FPS that I played back with one of the Wolfenstein remakes?

OR I can buy six indie games for the same price, have the money go directly to the game makers, have a completely different gaming experience than I've ever had before, and know that my money will support them making more innovative games.

Why on earth would I pay money for a console these days?  Fark that noise.


This, too.  I have a modded XBox, and I still buy quite a bit of XBLA games.  Braid, Fez, Mark of the Ninja,  Shadow Complex, Scott Pilgrim, Limbo, Plants vs. Zombies, Defense Grid, etc.  All of these are great games.  Even the Indie market has some nice offerings, and most of those are only a buck to buy.

manimal2878: The cost of some things should go down not up as they implement new technology and trend differently than inflation alone would indicate.  Like how I can buy a song now for 99 cents where as 20 years ago  I had to buy the  5.99 single CD (that probably included some other shiatty song I didn't want.)


Singles?  Really?  That's your argument?  The whole $15 CD model is essentially unchanged with 99 cents a song.  I don't know what artists you listen to, where you need to cherry pick, but I like to listen to the whole album.  In most cases, that's going to be $12, and that's without album art, lyrics, lossy compression, etc.

Fortunately, there's offerings like Spotify, but if I want to own a digital copy of my music, it's still fairly expensive.  There's too much music out there to be spending $12 a pop on it.
 
2013-02-13 07:24:53 AM
I am actually playing and buying more games in the past couple of years then I have in a long time. The big change to me has been the crop of small indie studios that have been releasing games recently. The behemoths are collapsing under their own weight and smaller studios are now on the rise. One day these new studios will grow too large collapse and then new growth will take their place. It is how the forest works.

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/
http://www.artemis.eochu.com/
http://www.pathofexile.com/
 to name just a few of my current favs
 
2013-02-13 07:25:58 AM

Sid_6.7: Sgt Otter: feeling they got burned on Diablo III and Knights of the Old Republic. Which should have been two of the biggest releases of the decade.

Blizzard couldn't release a decent game at this point if their lives depended on it. SC2 was so f*cking painful. Cliches and bad, dated graphics all around. I didn't even look at Diablo 3. It makes me very concerned for Bethesda getting into this MMORPG nonsense.

"Hey guys, we no longer have any incentive to make awesome, immersive single-player games due to this hoard of MMORPG-tards shelling out $20/month for our treasure-hoarding simulator!"


D3 isnt terrible anymore. I loathed it at launch and quit after getting my first toon to Inferno, but based on my friends' recommendations I gave it another try.
 
2013-02-13 07:27:25 AM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: ...or maybe sales are dropping because there haven't been any decent quality games out there.  Other than putting out the prettiest, most vapid FPSs, most game companies are mailing it in.  I remember the days when Witcher 2, Dark Souls, Skyrim, and Kingdom of Amalur all came out within a few months of one another.  Now?  When I look at the new releases, I see NOTHING I am interested in until NEXT JANUARY (excepting, possibly, Dark Moon for my son).


ni no kuni has just been released. Went right to being my favorite game on the PS3 (and I have a lot) and reminds me of the old RPGs from the SNES in terms of having fun while playing.

And fark to most of the revival of old games only to turn them into a shooter. And fark DRM. And fark the new easy version of Sim City with multiplayer.
 
2013-02-13 07:34:28 AM

blue_2501: I like to listen to the whole album.


Wow, how old are you?  Not even my grandfather listens to the whole album anymore.

Besides that you are missing the point. My, apparently, bad example aside, not all things track directly with inflation, especially in technology related areas where production and means of distribution have the ability to dramatically alter the costs of delivering the final product.
 
2013-02-13 07:36:10 AM

Cubicle Jockey: D3 isnt terrible anymore. I loathed it at launch and quit after getting my first toon to Inferno, but based on my friends' recommendations I gave it another try.


Too little, too late.  They made a game that was fun for 3-4 hours and then had solely artificial difficulty after that, and charged us a week's worth of deli sandwiches for the privilege.  They're not getting my money for anything again, pretty much ever.

Or if they do, it will be after I wait the six months it apparently takes them to turn an already-released game from a boring time-waster to "not terrible anymore".  So I'm not going to be contributing to release sales figures.
 
2013-02-13 07:49:17 AM
I can see going outside but do we really need more talking? Plus that whole being nice to strangers is just to dangerous:

global3.memecdn.com
 
2013-02-13 07:56:15 AM

manimal2878: blue_2501: I like to listen to the whole album.

Wow, how old are you?  Not even my grandfather listens to the whole album anymore.

Besides that you are missing the point. My, apparently, bad example aside, not all things track directly with inflation, especially in technology related areas where production and means of distribution have the ability to dramatically alter the costs of delivering the final product.


Again, if you don't like most of the album, you're listening to the wrong music.  Also, some albums aren't really meant to be split up.
 
2013-02-13 07:57:50 AM

Gwendolyn: Personally I'm busy finishing up my degree and waiting for Elder Scrolls Online. The current crop of MMORPGs kinda suck.


Hate to break it to you, but ESO will also suck. Bethesda games are kind of bad until modded by users, and that won't happen in an mmo.
 
2013-02-13 07:57:58 AM

sendtodave: Snotnose: At $60 they cost too much.  And if you buy a game used you don't get all the content unless you pay more $$$ to the company.

Fark that, at $60 new I expect to be able to resell my game and let the buyer get full value from it.

I remember NES games that cost $60 in the 80s.


I beleve the original Phantasy Star was $70.
 
2013-02-13 08:00:20 AM
DigitalCoffee: If they're looking to boost sales for the old consoles before the next gen hits, perhaps they could bring over some of that Japan Only content.

Oh, hell yes... now you're talkin'!

DigitalCoffee: Translate and release a few 'Pachinko Parlor' games, a few Visual Novels (like Clannad or Kanon), and a good Mahjongg game...

Oh. Umm... never mind.
 
2013-02-13 08:05:01 AM

manimal2878: Again, there are plenty of cheap games that are fun and cool, like all the indie games, that do not cost $60 and do not appear to be anywhere near as complex to code as a triple-A title.  Nor do they have a bloated advertising budget contributing to that cost.

I find it hard to believe a game like Limbo is exceptionally more complex to code than previous generation  side scrolling platformers.


I think we're talking about 2 different animals here: indie games and triple-a games.

I specifically mentioned triple-a titles, not indie games, for a reason. And since the majority of money is spent on developing triple-a titles for most game studios, their production costs have gone up. Also, advertising doesn't factor into production costs, it factors into marketing costs. It's a separate budget and I'm not including it in production costs. Production costs have gone up because competition has gone up, so studios have to step up their game. Production costs are programming, art and asset creation, network programming, UI development, server programming, audio programming and development, cost of licenses for game engines, etc etc have risen. In order to produce a triple-a title, you need a team of tens or even hundreds, each one specialized to work in one specific area. 10 or 20 years ago, it was 5 or 6 guys. But the complexity of the systems has increased, so you need more and specially trained people to development.

Indie games are entirely different, they are usually made by small teams of people who truly love what they do and just want to make a little scratch. But you won't see an indie team putting out a triple-a game in the scope and scale of CoD or Halo, instead of you get great games like Limbo or Mark of the Ninja. But they aren't comparable.

Jim_Callahan: Except triple-A titles are mostly terrible, and while graphics have improved pretty dramatically since 1995, they haven't really since 2003/2005ish.  This generation of consoles has actually pretty much stayed par with PC gaming graphics-wise.  The inflated cost is forced stuff like segregated departments working multiple projects, design by committee, and using hollywood accounting (or actual hollywood people) and has nothing to do with the actual necessary work-hours to produce a given game.

It's a little hard to argue that the big budgets are necessary when other studios are doing it for 1/10 to 1/100th the cost and getting equal or even superior products out, or when two sequential CoD games are functionally indistinguishable and run on literally the same engine but the studio claims the development of the latter is 10% higher than the former or whatever.

The movie analogy's a pretty good one, the old saying is "no hollywood movie ever made a cent after expenses", that's what game studios big enough to get away with it are doing, that's all.


I don't disagree with you on many points, I'm pretty much done the CoD's and A LOT of triple-a titles sucks donkey balls. And I think most people would agree the only thing holding back graphics nowadays is 6 year-old console hardware (PC GAMER 4 LIFE!!).

But your statement about not being able to argue over big budgets is kind of off, since it depends on what you mean. Show me the indie dev who can produce a game with the graphical quality, programming, network, and audio complexity of Battlefield 2. Indie's don't make games like that cause it would take them forever. They don't have the resources to produce a game like Borderlands 1 or 2. Now, that's not to say they don't produce awesome games, they absolutely do. I love indie games, but they aren't really in the same league as the big studio stuff. There is a reason their games are generally simple side-scrollers and it's not just gaming nostalgia. To further your movie analogy, an indie studio couldn't do The Avengers the way Marvel did it.
 
2013-02-13 08:08:04 AM
YodaBlues: <SNIP> ...and audio complexity of Battlefield 2 3...<SNIP>

Ack, meant BF3.
 
2013-02-13 08:11:26 AM

Spaced Cowboy: Dafuq!? I'm at about 270 hours in Skyrim and I've played through fully with 2 characters and am about 75% through a 3rd character playthrough with some new mods and quests installed.

Even with mods, what did you find to do for 200 hours with just one character?


Well, I like to play a sneaky ranged character, so combat tends to take a bit longer than it does for more brutish builds.  I really just wandered around, took every quest that came my way, delved into every dungeon I came across and looted the crap out of the province.  There's so much to explore, why not stop and see the sights?

I'm almost done with the game, all I have left to do is finish the Companions quests and then deal with the civil war and smite Alduin.  Dawnguard is finished, and I'm waiting on Dragonborn to come down a bit before I buy it.

/love to watch the aurora, too
 
2013-02-13 08:11:44 AM

blue_2501: Again, if you don't like most of the album, you're listening to the wrong music. Also, some albums aren't really meant to be split up.


Might be true, but is irrelevant to my point.
 
2013-02-13 08:15:56 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com

Nuff said. If you can't upgrade your hardware at least once a year, you don't get the shinies.
 
2013-02-13 08:16:38 AM
Maybe focusing on shiny water and how many FPS games you can crank out isn't a good long term strategy. Just a thought.
 
2013-02-13 08:21:38 AM

YodaBlues: But you won't see an indie team putting out a triple-a game in the scope and scale of CoD or Halo, instead of you get great games like Limbo or Mark of the Ninja. But they aren't comparable.


YodaBlues: Show me the indie dev who can produce a game with the graphical quality, programming, network, and audio complexity of Battlefield 2. Indie's don't make games like that cause it would take them forever.


I think the point some of us are trying to make is that, all that stuff that makes a game triple-A, like the graphics, sound, etc.  doesn't make the game $50 more fun that the $10 game I can download from the Xbox market place.

I think many of us are indeed comparing triple-a and indie, maybe not on factors like graphics, etc,  but on the amount of fun we get out of it vs the money we put in, and a lot of us don't see value in the triple-a titles by comparison.
 
2013-02-13 08:22:19 AM
blue_2501:

Fortunately, there's offerings like Spotify, but if I want to own a digital copy of my music, it's still fairly expensive.  There's too much music out there to be spending $12 a pop on it.

You might already know this but with Amazon if you buy a CD you get the digital copy, and their cloud service, free.
 
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