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(Click On Detroit)   "Only three in the world? What am I going to do with a Korean money printing plate, anyway? It'll sit on the shelf for months, years. $250, best I can do"   (clickondetroit.com) divider line 37
    More: Interesting, Korean, James Amato, note, Michigan, Customs Enforcement, Homeland Security Investigations, artifacts  
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8135 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Feb 2013 at 3:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-12 02:46:26 PM  
As artifacts and relics go, I would rather have the Codex of the Infinite Planes.
 
2013-02-12 02:56:51 PM  
"arrested Tuesday by special agents with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) ...  following a two-year investigation into the sale of a Hojo currency plate from 1893"

wow. i mean... it's just that... federal special agents and a 2 year investigation... it's just... wow.
 
2013-02-12 03:29:53 PM  

the801: "arrested Tuesday by special agents with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) ...  following a two-year investigation into the sale of a Hojo currency plate from 1893"

wow. i mean... it's just that... federal special agents and a 2 year investigation... it's just... wow.


Your tax dollars at work.

This is clearly a very important issue. How dare people sell artifacts from 100+ years ago that are illegal to sale due to some obscure Act.
 
2013-02-12 03:32:48 PM  

justtray: the801: "arrested Tuesday by special agents with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) ...  following a two-year investigation into the sale of a Hojo currency plate from 1893"

wow. i mean... it's just that... federal special agents and a 2 year investigation... it's just... wow.

Your tax dollars at work.

This is clearly a very important issue. How dare people sell artifacts from 100+ years ago that are illegal to sale due to some obscure Act.


I break laws that I personally have decided have no value.  Did you know that it's illegal to take dump in a movie theater?
 
2013-02-12 03:36:20 PM  
i1079.photobucket.com
Ja ja ja, mach schnell mit der plate things, huh...
 
2013-02-12 03:43:21 PM  

justtray: the801: "arrested Tuesday by special agents with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) ...  following a two-year investigation into the sale of a Hojo currency plate from 1893"

wow. i mean... it's just that... federal special agents and a 2 year investigation... it's just... wow.

Your tax dollars at work.

This is clearly a very important issue. How dare people sell artifacts from 100+ years ago that are illegal to sale due to some obscure Act.


Tell that to the Egyptians; dislike Zahi Hawass all you want, but one good thing he did was recover a ton of artifacts that should never have been removed from Egypt by the early archaeologists.

/It belongs in a museum!
 
2013-02-12 03:55:01 PM  
Hojo doesn't sound very Korean.  And considering the time period.... Can't say it was actually Korea at that point....
 
2013-02-12 04:01:13 PM  
Youn's purchase, Amato and Youn were contacted by officials with the Korean Embassy and the U.S. State Department, and advised that the sale of the item could be in violation of the National Stolen Property Act.


If they tell you that you are about to break the law, why would you be surprised that they arrest you for breaking the law?
 
2013-02-12 04:03:11 PM  
I didn't know Howard Johnson's were in Korea.
 
2013-02-12 04:12:45 PM  
I could do, like, 20 bucks on it if it helps you out.
 
2013-02-12 04:16:53 PM  

Kanemano: Youn's purchase, Amato and Youn were contacted by officials with the Korean Embassy and the U.S. State Department, and advised that the sale of the item could be in violation of the National Stolen Property Act.


If they tell you that you are about to break the law, why would you be surprised that they arrest you for breaking the law?


Well, it took them 2 years to charge him, so it's not like is was a slam-dunk case.

I checked out the law the guy is being charged with, and honestly, I think he might have a decent defense.    It was brought to the US 60-ish years ago, the original person who brought it in is in all likelihood dead.  There is no way to prove it was stolen, unless it was already in a museum in Korea and they can prove that.  Otherwise, it was likely privately owned and for all they know the servicemember could have bought it legally.

All the other provisions have to do with actually printing money, securities, and tax stamps, and no one can seriously argue that someone was going to start counterfeiting 100+ year old Korean money.
 
2013-02-12 04:19:20 PM  

Kanemano: If they tell you that you are about to break the law, why would you be surprised that they arrest you for breaking the law?


They tell you that you might be about to break the law. They don't give a definite answer. And if it was a stolen artifact, they should have just gotten a warrant to sieze it. Just that simple. The auctioneer wasn't doing anything clandestine. He operated in the open. The government had every chance to get a warrant and Korea had the chance to purchase it outright. Fark 'em. There was no criminal element here and just the threat of prosecution is an abuse of power.
 
2013-02-12 04:20:50 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: As artifacts and relics go, I would rather have the Codex of the Infinite Planes.



Pffft. The Wand of Orcus is where it is at.
 
2013-02-12 04:23:09 PM  

FarkinHostile: Because People in power are Stupid: As artifacts and relics go, I would rather have the Codex of the Infinite Planes.


Pffft. The Wand of Orcus is where it is at.


Amulet of Yendor myself.
 
2013-02-12 04:24:10 PM  

FarkinHostile: Because People in power are Stupid: As artifacts and relics go, I would rather have the Codex of the Infinite Planes.


Pffft. The Wand of Orcus is where it is at.


Give me the Infinity Gauntlet.  I don't want the gems, just the gauntlet so I can punch somebody with it.
 
2013-02-12 04:25:22 PM  

NewWorldDan: Kanemano: If they tell you that you are about to break the law, why would you be surprised that they arrest you for breaking the law?

They tell you that you might be about to break the law. They don't give a definite answer. And if it was a stolen artifact, they should have just gotten a warrant to sieze it. Just that simple. The auctioneer wasn't doing anything clandestine. He operated in the open. The government had every chance to get a warrant and Korea had the chance to purchase it outright. Fark 'em. There was no criminal element here and just the threat of prosecution is an abuse of power.


You would normally ask the seller for provenance and other due diligence before the sale is completed just like speakers out the back of a car.
 
2013-02-12 04:28:11 PM  

Rapmaster2000: justtray: the801: "arrested Tuesday by special agents with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) ...  following a two-year investigation into the sale of a Hojo currency plate from 1893"

wow. i mean... it's just that... federal special agents and a 2 year investigation... it's just... wow.

Your tax dollars at work.

This is clearly a very important issue. How dare people sell artifacts from 100+ years ago that are illegal to sale due to some obscure Act.

I break laws that I personally have decided have no value.  Did you know that it's illegal to take dump in a movie theater?


That you, Barack?
 
2013-02-12 04:35:26 PM  

DSF6969: FarkinHostile: Because People in power are Stupid: As artifacts and relics go, I would rather have the Codex of the Infinite Planes.


Pffft. The Wand of Orcus is where it is at.

Give me the Infinity Gauntlet.  I don't want the gems, just the gauntlet so I can punch somebody with it.


Baba Yaga's Hut, luxury, defense, mobility, it's Gary Gygax's RV.
 
2013-02-12 04:35:42 PM  
Don't understand.  From what I see in the law it say "Whoever transports, transmits, or transfers in interstate or foreign commerce any goods, wares, merchandise, securities or money, of the value of $5,000 or more, knowing the same to have been stolen, converted or taken by fraud; or  "

Does that mean value at time of taking because I doubt it would be valued at that much when it was taken during what I assume was the Korean war.

Also when it was taken from Korea did they have such a law themselves at the time?  Also do they have a report of a theft of such plate at the time?  How can the prove that the original purchase was not legitimate?
 
2013-02-12 05:17:22 PM  
img1.etsystatic.com

What a HoJo plate might look like
 
2013-02-12 05:20:45 PM  

lilbjorn: [img1.etsystatic.com image 570x459]

What a HoJo plate might look like


Wow... are they still around? I remember, as a kid, traveling down the New York Turnpike in the early 70s with my family, stopping in. I also remember coin-operated toilet stalls and vending machines with crazy novelty items.
 
2013-02-12 05:29:49 PM  
So anything with "cultural and symbolic worth" is automatically the property of the state?  There are civil war relics in private hands I am sure?  If I sell Jeb Stuarts' boots am I automatically committing a crime if they were spoils of war?  A  lot of swag came home from Germany at the end of the war.  Is that all contraband now?

"Homeland Security Investigations agents have returned more than 6,600 illegally transported artifacts to 24 countries since 2007, including paintings, manuscripts and other cultural items taken from France, Germany, Poland, Austria, Italy, Peru, China, Cambodia and Iraq."

Oh.

I'm curious about the false statements charge.  I wish there was more information.
 
2013-02-12 05:44:12 PM  

LesserEvil: lilbjorn: [img1.etsystatic.com image 570x459]

What a HoJo plate might look like

Wow... are they still around? I remember, as a kid, traveling down the New York Turnpike in the early 70s with my family, stopping in. I also remember coin-operated toilet stalls and vending machines with crazy novelty items.


There are 2 left, 1 in Lake Placid NY and the other in Bangor Maine. I've eaten at the Lake Placid one, we used to stop there for breakfast on our way back from the High Peaks.
 
2013-02-12 06:00:32 PM  

the801: "arrested Tuesday by special agents with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) ...  following a two-year investigation into the sale of a Hojo currency plate from 1893"

wow. i mean... it's just that... federal special agents and a 2 year investigation... it's just... wow.


Yes, 801.  Twenty agents labored 60 yours a week (with overtime) on JUST THIS.  THEY DID NO OTHER WORK.  IT'S ILLEGAL FOR AGENTS TO WORK ON MULTIPLE CASES AT ONCE.
 
2013-02-12 06:22:25 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: As artifacts and relics go, I would rather have the Codex of the Infinite Planes.


Kuroth's Quill is what I would take, but I wouldn't use it until I'd had a LOT of penmanship practice, just to make sure there were no mistakes.

. . .or maybe the Nether Scrolls.  Heck, just one Nether Scroll would be incredible.
 
2013-02-12 06:29:45 PM  
The owner of a Michigan auction house was arrested Tuesday by special agents with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) for allegedly making false statements

That's a five year stretch in the federal pokey right there.

Remember, kids, never ever EVER talk to ANY Federal agent without your lawyer present.

/that's free advice
 
2013-02-12 06:37:42 PM  

the801: "arrested Tuesday by special agents with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) ...  following a two-year investigation into the sale of a Hojo currency plate from 1893"

wow. i mean... it's just that... federal special agents and a 2 year investigation... it's just... wow.


And it was sold in 1893.
 
2013-02-12 07:18:07 PM  

Silverstaff: Because People in power are Stupid: As artifacts and relics go, I would rather have the Codex of the Infinite Planes.

Kuroth's Quill is what I would take, but I wouldn't use it until I'd had a LOT of penmanship practice, just to make sure there were no mistakes.

. . .or maybe the Nether Scrolls.  Heck, just one Nether Scroll would be incredible.


I`d settle for a scroll of magic missile at this stage.
 
2013-02-12 08:33:47 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: IT'S ILLEGAL FOR AGENTS TO WORK ON MULTIPLE CASES AT ONCE.


Just curious and I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have a cite?

Sometimes cases just stagnate temporarily, wouldn't they? Sometimes a newer case might take priority I would think.

So, how do they define working on multiple cases at once?

I know I've worked on 5 different things at once before, but in reality I was actually only really working on one thing. Something might be a quick, but urgent task so I spend 5 minutes and then go back to the previous task.

It's sort of like your computer - it's not really running all those programs (or apps) at once. It devotes small time slices to each one and it just appears to the user that it's multi-tasking. It will have multiple things in memory, but that's sort of analogous to having different files on your desk.
 
2013-02-12 08:35:34 PM  
I hate that show oh so much....
 
2013-02-12 09:08:55 PM  

AlteredChemical: I hate that show oh so much....


Why? I just started watching it and have been enjoying it. Some pretty cool things show up.
 
2013-02-12 09:19:48 PM  

Happy Hours: Just curious and I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have a cite?

Sometimes cases just stagnate temporarily, wouldn't they? Sometimes a newer case might take priority I would think.

So, how do they define working on multiple cases at once?

I know I've worked on 5 different things at once before, but in reality I was actually only really working on one thing. Something might be a quick, but urgent task so I spend 5 minutes and then go back to the previous task.

It's sort of like your computer - it's not really running all those programs (or apps) at once. It devotes small time slices to each one and it just appears to the user that it's multi-tasking. It will have multiple things in memory, but that's sort of analogous to having different files on your desk.


I was being sarcastic.  Every time something like this comes up some chucklefark whines about it, making the claim that this is ALL those agents/that office/the entire federal government worked on during that time period.

If it takes six months from a burglary till an arrest is made, why by God, obviously that's ALL those cops worked on during that time period, yes sir.
 
2013-02-12 11:19:30 PM  

Kanemano: Youn's purchase, Amato and Youn were contacted by officials with the Korean Embassy and the U.S. State Department, and advised that the sale of the item could be in violation of the National Stolen Property Act.


If they tell you that you are about to break the law, why would you be surprised that they arrest you for breaking the law?


FTA: While the item was listed for sale and before Youn's purchase, Amato and Youn were contacted by officials with the Korean Embassy and the U.S. State Department, and advised that the sale of the item could be in violation of the National Stolen Property Act.

I'm no lawyer nor English Major, but could be is not the same as will be.  So it sounds like they weren't sure either since they didn't tell them not to sell the item.
 
2013-02-12 11:40:44 PM  

Ennuipoet: DSF6969: FarkinHostile: Because People in power are Stupid: As artifacts and relics go, I would rather have the Codex of the Infinite Planes.


Pffft. The Wand of Orcus is where it is at.

Give me the Infinity Gauntlet.  I don't want the gems, just the gauntlet so I can punch somebody with it.

Baba Yaga's Hut, luxury, defense, mobility, it's Gary Gygax's RV.


Huzzah for Baba Yaga's hut!

Found out later in my life that the story behind it is personal ancestral folklore.

Well, it all belongs to all of us, but I think you know what I mean.
 
2013-02-12 11:41:35 PM  
FTA: But the cultural and symbolic worth of these items far surpasses any monetary value to the people and nations of their origin.

This is generally used as an excuse for not paying anything to those who bought, inherited, recovered or preserved an artifact, legally or illegally, with no regards to the costs of these actions.
 
2013-02-13 02:01:11 AM  

turbocucumber: FTA: But the cultural and symbolic worth of these items far surpasses any monetary value to the people and nations of their origin.

This is generally used as an excuse for not paying anything to those who bought, inherited, recovered or preserved an artifact, legally or illegally, with no regards to the costs of these actions.


Everything is super valuable when you're spending other people's money to acquire it.
 
2013-02-13 07:24:51 AM  

iawai: turbocucumber: FTA: But the cultural and symbolic worth of these items far surpasses any monetary value to the people and nations of their origin.

This is generally used as an excuse for not paying anything to those who bought, inherited, recovered or preserved an artifact, legally or illegally, with no regards to the costs of these actions.

Everything is super valuable when you're spending other people's money to acquire it.


Korea, if you want the thing, then give the guy the $35K.  That's certainly less money than spending that much money on federal agents.  (No, Satanic_Hamster, I'm not suggesting that they spent the entire 2 years on this case.)

/search and seizure laws FTW
 
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