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(Yahoo)   Today's Generation Whine story comes to us from Lehigh University where a snowflake is suing the school over a grade she earned...four years ago   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 91
    More: Fail, Lehigh, college of education, Megan Thode, academic standards, Northampton County, sexual discriminations, degree programs  
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7322 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Feb 2013 at 11:08 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-12 12:03:22 PM  
I saw a major red flag as soon as I realised that the degree in question was a master's in counselling. Then I realised that this starts to look like a case of someone who was not suited to that profession because of their own personality issues, refusing to accept that they were at fault. Yes I know I wasn't there but I am very suspicious. From the article "Lehigh's lawyers allege that Thode's behavior in class was not acceptable for someone seeking a master's degree in counseling. On at least one occasion, they said, she used profanity in class. Another time, she broke down crying. "

It is notable that although she claims 3 other students also complained about being told to find more internships - yet she is the only one suing. Apparently the only one with a problem. And the "prof discriminated against me because of my interest in gay and lesbian issues" thing sounds like delusional bullshiat. I doubt that the professor would care that much about occasional swearing in class either - quite likely this girl was causing major scenes in class and being unreasonable and unbalanced, and unable to see beyond her own issues. These are not qualities one wants in a counsellor.
 
2013-02-12 12:04:52 PM  

kronicfeld: Should there be no remedy available for that?


Whatever hypothetical remedy should not include changing her grade.  I don't think judges should be doing that.
 
2013-02-12 12:06:43 PM  

kronicfeld: Assume everything she says is true, and that her professor willfully and maliciously gave her a bad grade not because of her performance, but because of a personal or ideological vendetta. Assume further that because of that one grade, she was unable to ever obtain a particular professional certification that carries with it significantly greater earning potential. Should there be no remedy available for that?



No.
 
2013-02-12 12:07:59 PM  

exick: h causes you to lose by a field goal? Guess you should have been up by more than 2 points. If getting a zero for participation causes you to get a C+ and submarine your GPA so much that it destroys the career you were gunning for, you weren't doing well enough in the class to begin with.


granted, she's an idiot.

But to be fair, depending on how much "class participation" was counted as, it could have torpedoed her grade. I once had 119 % in a class (I never missed a question on anything, the rest of the class was so stupid, she had to curve and threw out my scores to issue the curve), only to miss the midterm because I was sick, to have 40% of my grade lost, and ended up with a C like this girl.

Was it fair? No. Was it my fault? Partially. I should have checked with the professor instead of not attending that day, even though I was busy puking my guts out with the flu. -Life lesson learned.

While this girl is an idiot, I personally think "class participation" is bullshiat. Any teacher can give you a low score in that and destroy your grade if they don't like you.

For that matter, class attendance affecting your grade is bullshiat as well. We once had a professor that would take off a *letter* grade if you missed a day of class without a doctor's note. And even *with* a doctor's note, you could only miss two days total the entire semester.
 
2013-02-12 12:10:23 PM  
FTFA:

Before filing her lawsuit, Thode filed complaints with the university over the C+ grade, showing up at meetings with her father, the finance professor.

she went through the university, and they did not see enough justification for overturning the grade.
 
2013-02-12 12:14:27 PM  
Worth noting: in many grad programs, a B or below is practically a failing grade. Might be different for a professional degree program, rather than an academic track, but a C seems to be a fairly strong hint that you don't belong in the program.
 
2013-02-12 12:15:03 PM  

kronicfeld: Assume everything she says is true, and that her professor willfully and maliciously gave her a bad grade not because of her performance, but because of a personal or ideological vendetta. Assume further that because of that one grade, she was unable to ever obtain a particular professional certification that carries with it significantly greater earning potential. Should there be no remedy available for that?


Fortunately, courts don't work on this sort of flawed thought. She will have to provide proof.

IANAL, but assuming all this is true *and provable* then she should be entitled to the fee for the class (which was zero dollars). If this one course, with no ability to retake or transfer to another school, kept her from her chosen career then it is a possibe recourse for damages, but only if she can demonstrate damages. Maybe her new career path pays more on average? Maybe she intentionally chose a lesser paying option knowing she was going to sue for the difference?

Assuming she is in the right is not better than assuming she is in the wrong.
 
2013-02-12 12:19:38 PM  

Gabrielmot: While this girl is an idiot, I personally think "class participation" is bullshiat. Any teacher can give you a low score in that and destroy your grade if they don't like you.


They can do the same thing if they don't like your essays.  She wanted to be a counselor - that's inherently a participatory discipline with almost no definite black and white answers.
 
2013-02-12 12:20:25 PM  

airsupport: So a professor's kid goes to college, acts like an entitled coont (swearing and crying in class, as though the regular rules of civil behaviour don't apply to her), gets called on her attitude, then goes running to her daddy and, furthermore, has the audacity to claim discrimination based on sexuality, because she's dabbled in gay culture a little, maybe has a gay friend and audited a class on gender issues?


vote democrat
 
2013-02-12 12:22:21 PM  
Also like to point out that the further fieldwork that a B grade would have allowed her to do would have obviously involved her being around vulnerable people. This isn't like doing the degrees in programming etc that other people have talked about where they got unfairly marked down. Her own behaviour and ability to deal with problems is actually crucial. I expect that 0 was deliberate to make sure she didn't get the required B, to stop her from doing any harm.

I have longstanding mental health problems myself, AND was trying to pursue a career in psychology/neurology. I couldn't even get the work experience I needed to go onto a PhD because of my mental health history - the only place that would maybe have accepted me was the secure unit at the mental hospital, as a support worker. I'm not saying that it is right but people are in general routinely disqualified from working around vulnerable people because of mental health issues -without even having done anything wrong. I discovered many people I knew had eg been sacked from nursing jobs once employers discovered they had been diagnosed with a personality disorder. This may not be fair or lawful but it is real life. It sounds like the teacher is alleging that this girl was showing that she wasn't fit to work around vulnerable people.

It doesn't say what work she has been doing since then, but if she was really interested in mental health there are a ton of jobs that don't require a masters in counselling.
 
2013-02-12 12:50:07 PM  
Not that this lawsuit has much in the way of merit, but the fact that it's been four years means very little.

TFA says that the student was on the witness stand. This means trial.

Because the law works slowly, I can believe it took four years to get from filing the initial legal papers to actually getting in front of a jury.

It's not like, as I thought before reading, that she waited until the day before the statute of limitations ran to drop a law-bomb on her alma mater.
 
2013-02-12 12:51:27 PM  

Discordulator: kronicfeld: Assume everything she says is true, and that her professor willfully and maliciously gave her a bad grade not because of her performance, but because of a personal or ideological vendetta. Assume further that because of that one grade, she was unable to ever obtain a particular professional certification that carries with it significantly greater earning potential. Should there be no remedy available for that?

Fortunately, courts don't work on this sort of flawed thought. She will have to provide proof.

IANAL, but assuming all this is true *and provable* then she should be entitled to the fee for the class (which was zero dollars). If this one course, with no ability to retake or transfer to another school, kept her from her chosen career then it is a possibe recourse for damages, but only if she can demonstrate damages. Maybe her new career path pays more on average? Maybe she intentionally chose a lesser paying option knowing she was going to sue for the difference?

Assuming she is in the right is not better than assuming she is in the wrong.


No, but everyone not named Kronicfeld has been assuming she's in the wrong...
 
2013-02-12 12:55:03 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Before filing her lawsuit, Thode filed complaints with the university over the C+ grade, showing up at meetings with her father, the finance professor. She sought a written apology from Carr, the course instructor, and a "plan for compensating me financially," notes The Morning Call

Biatch you got a mother-farking free ride and you WANT money?

I hate everything about this woman.


It all made perfect sense on the napkin from the bar where she met her lawyer.
 
2013-02-12 12:58:22 PM  

kronicfeld: Assume everything she says is true, and that her professor willfully and maliciously gave her a bad grade not because of her performance, but because of a personal or ideological vendetta. Assume further that because of that one grade, she was unable to ever obtain a particular professional certification that carries with it significantly greater earning potential. Should there be no remedy available for that?


If there is, it isn't the Judicial system. With all of the clout this biatch has/had at the time, if she took it to the University and it wasn't overturned...then the grade was most likely deserved.

/Not to mention she's a POS.
 
2013-02-12 01:03:11 PM  

exick: Is there some sort of rule at Lehigh where you aren't allowed to retake a class? Obviously I don't have all the facts, but how is it that a single grade that is two-thirds of a grade point lower than what she needed something so devastating not only to her academic progress but to her career as well?

She should take some advice from football players. A bad call late in the 4th causes you to lose by a field goal? Guess you should have been up by more than 2 points. If getting a zero for participation causes you to get a C+ and submarine your GPA so much that it destroys the career you were gunning for, you weren't doing well enough in the class to begin with.


I didn't realize there were college courses that had participation grades. Granted its been a while since I was in school and I was a major.
 
2013-02-12 01:08:03 PM  

largedon: I didn't realize there were college courses that had participation grades. Granted its been a while since I was in school and I was a major.


Every professor has some type of class participation figured into the final grade. It usually consist of attendance, depending on the professor's attendance policy, and not being a disruptive ass in class. But then there are some classes that require class discussion, and if you sit their like a bump on a log and don't participate, then you will get a poor grade.
 
2013-02-12 01:08:44 PM  
Four years over a C+?

Is this about her Essay on Timeliness?
 
2013-02-12 01:23:33 PM  

largedon: I didn't realize there were college courses that had participation grades.


No one's better than anyone else and everyone's the best at everything!
 
2013-02-12 01:41:42 PM  

WhippingBoy: No one's better than anyone else and everyone's the best at everything!


Generation Whine defined.
 
2013-02-12 01:42:22 PM  

largedon: exick: Is there some sort of rule at Lehigh where you aren't allowed to retake a class? Obviously I don't have all the facts, but how is it that a single grade that is two-thirds of a grade point lower than what she needed something so devastating not only to her academic progress but to her career as well?

She should take some advice from football players. A bad call late in the 4th causes you to lose by a field goal? Guess you should have been up by more than 2 points. If getting a zero for participation causes you to get a C+ and submarine your GPA so much that it destroys the career you were gunning for, you weren't doing well enough in the class to begin with.

I didn't realize there were college courses that had participation grades. Granted its been a while since I was in school and I was a major.


Only my general ed classes had them. My major classes could give two shiats if you showed up, not counting labs. Then again, STEM major so they only cared if you knew the material.
 
2013-02-12 01:45:07 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: WhippingBoy: No one's better than anyone else and everyone's the best at everything!

Generation Whine defined.


I'm OK you're OK

/judge not
 
2013-02-12 01:47:31 PM  
How hot is this broad?
 
2013-02-12 01:55:21 PM  
Just refund every cent she paid in tuition.

Oh, right.
 
2013-02-12 02:39:16 PM  
Generation whine.


Right.

Not like they were taught how to be a bunch of big farking pussies by their parents...er PARENT or anything.
 
2013-02-12 02:40:31 PM  
Typical of what you can expect from Lehigh.

/Lafayette FTW
 
2013-02-12 02:42:05 PM  

DubtodaIll: It has been my experience that the grades I got in school have become irrelevant in the working world.  Never has it come up during a job interview though my GPA was asked a few times on application forms, which I just left blank.  Success is about hard work and whatnot, not what some jackwagon thinks about what you think.  Though I will admit I had a rough time finding gainful employment after school, though that was all my fault.

2.7 :)


This. The only employer who might care about your grades is your first employer, simply because there's not that much else for them to look at.
 
2013-02-12 02:52:14 PM  
I've been pretty pissed about my final semester's grades myself, not enough to sue, but still really upset. Problem might have been that by the time I got into my last semester I had already been working in my industry for three years and knew way more than the guys teaching the class. I sometimes actually couldn't believe the words that would come out of their mouths.

To elucidate, the following conversation occurred at one point:

Me: "So uhh, why is it exactly you say we can't chroma key on camera 1?"
Prof.: "Well, it's complicated."
Me: "I think I can follow."
Prof.: "Well you need a time-based corrector for that and our CCUs can't handle it. Plus, we've been trying for like ten years to do it and just can't make it work."
Me: "Those things don't have anything to do with keying, that comes from inside the switcher."

Five minutes later I pointed both cameras at the key wall, recalled the chroma key effect on the M/E and then changed the camera keying between the two. I did in five minutes what these clowns were adamant couldn't be done for a decade.

There were a series of provably wrong statements that came from the "teachers," after a while I gave up trying to get them to be right about anything. I came out with a B and three Cs, by the time I got my grades I was already walking at graduation having lost all hope that anything productive came out of my major.
 
2013-02-12 02:52:27 PM  
CSB

I took a full load of classes when I was in my first trimester pregnant with my son. Didn't take any morning classes because of an intense case of morning sickness. My history final (advanced history, only one professor teaches the course) was scheduled for 8 am. Ten minutes into the final I had to leave to go puke. The prof had locked the door to all late arrivals and wouldn't let me back in to finish my final. I waited outside until the final was over and then argued with the prof about being locked out. He told me flat out that being pregnant was "your problem, don't make it mine". I failed the final, and because it was 50% of the grade, I failed the class.

However - I had both my midterms and my paper, all of which earned A's. When I challenged the grade with the Dean, the prof stood his ground that I "abandoned" the final. Lucky me, several students knew about my situation and testified that the prof locked me out, not that I abandoned it. My grade was changed, as it should have been. The prof got in lots of trouble later on - when 9/11 happened, he publicly sympathized with the terrorists and there was a huge public outcry (my point? he was an arsehole that liked to take a lot of unpopular points of view to raise a ruckus).

The point here is that she should have objected to that grade  immediately if her story is true. I strongly suspect it isn't - because if it were true, and she had other students supporting her position - the university would have handled it internally. I'm guessing this will be tossed pretty quickly because she didn't follow the avenues that were available to her at the time.

//And that awful prof like to run with just a sumo wrestling towel wrapped around his genitals. He was freaky deaky.
 
2013-02-12 03:23:18 PM  

Kimothy: However - I had both my midterms and my paper, all of which earned A's. When I challenged the grade with the Dean, the prof stood his ground that I "abandoned" the final. Lucky me, several students knew about my situation and testified that the prof locked me out, not that I abandoned it. My grade was changed, as it should have been.


I disagree. He didn't want you leaving the room because you could be cheating. It had nothing to do with you being pregnant. Your overwhelming sense of entitlement on the other hand...
 
2013-02-12 03:30:08 PM  

umad: Kimothy: However - I had both my midterms and my paper, all of which earned A's. When I challenged the grade with the Dean, the prof stood his ground that I "abandoned" the final. Lucky me, several students knew about my situation and testified that the prof locked me out, not that I abandoned it. My grade was changed, as it should have been.

I disagree. He didn't want you leaving the room because you could be cheating. It had nothing to do with you being pregnant. Your overwhelming sense of entitlement on the other hand...


No - he made it clear in our conversation that it was because I was pregnant. When I originally found out it was scheduled at 8 am, I BEGGED him - and provided a doctors note - to allow me to take at a later time, with him, a TA, or any other professor. He refused and said I had to take the 8 am exam.

Trust me, the school was very, very unhappy that he discriminated against someone because they were pregnant - and that was their finding after an investigation. After he found out I was pregnant (when I asked him to reschedule the final) he made nasty, disparaging remarks to me in class about being a breeder and other unmentionables. The final was just the icing on the cake.

But go ahead and tell me I'm entitled because I demanded fair treatment. It's okay. I understand.
 
2013-02-12 03:35:34 PM  

Kimothy: The point here is that she should have objected to that grade immediately if her story is true. I strongly suspect it isn't - because if it were true, and she had other students supporting her position - the university would have handled it internally. I'm guessing this will be tossed pretty quickly because she didn't follow the avenues that were available to her at the time.


FTA
Before filing her lawsuit, Thode filed complaints with the university over the C+ grade, showing up at meetings with her father, the finance professor. She sought a written apology from Carr, the course instructor, and a "plan for compensating me financially," notes The Morning Call.

From what they said in the article it sounds like she did. It also sounds like she not only wanted the grade to be changed, but she also wanted an apology from the prof and money. The University said no and she decided to sue. And judging by the demands she made, I can see why she probably got a 0 grade for class participation.
 
2013-02-12 03:39:38 PM  

Kimothy: But go ahead and tell me I'm entitled because I demanded fair treatment. It's okay. I understand.


The word you are looking for is "special."

"Fair" only works if everybody except you was allowed to leave the room.
 
2013-02-12 03:57:40 PM  

umad: Kimothy: But go ahead and tell me I'm entitled because I demanded fair treatment. It's okay. I understand.

The word you are looking for is "special."

"Fair" only works if everybody except you was allowed to leave the room.


Oh bullshiat. If someone was horribly ill and provided a doctors note about the illness, they'd have been able to retake the final or have been accommodated. I brought the doctors note in advance and he still refused to make any accommodations. By the way, he was CONSTANTLY in trouble for discriminating against students, I was just one of many, many students who had difficulties with him. Not to mention that our state had laws against discriminating against pregnant women - which he clearly violated.

Fair and equal are not the same thing. What you are describing is equal treatment, but not fair. It's like writing a quiz on the board and then telling anyone with glasses that they can't use them - it makes everyone equal, because no one is allowed to use a magnifying lens on the exam. But it sure as hell isn't fair.
 
2013-02-12 04:39:04 PM  
You get free farking tuition. Take the farking class again. If you don't get your 3.0, take it again. And again. Participate the hell out of the damn class. Show up for every office hours for extra help. Eventually, even if the prof hates you, he will give you the 3.0 just so you shut up and go away.

Also, she sound like a prime example that the majority of Psychology majors are in it to figure out their own whack selves.
 
2013-02-12 05:07:33 PM  

oryx: Yeah, a person who blames everybody else for her own failure would make an excellent counselor.


Well, she would fit right in with all my mental health colleagues. She could be their Drama Queen!
 
2013-02-12 05:15:17 PM  

umad: The word you are looking for is "special."


Fair treatment is not necessarily equal treatment, and may well be special treatment. "No, you can't wear a hearing aid unless everyone else does." "No, you can't inject some insulin unless everyone else does." "No, you can't take the test after your morning sickness has abated unless everyone else does."
 
2013-02-12 05:19:23 PM  

umad: "Fair" only works if everybody except you was allowed to leave the room.


You're thinking of "equal." It's a different concept.
 
2013-02-12 08:23:10 PM  
Side note: if she was at York College, she probably left with a degree in education or psych, because those (and nursing) is all YCP seems to generate.  YCP is the closest thing I've ever seen to a four-year community college, and if she went there free "because of her Lehigh connections" it's likely it's because she couldn't get into Lehigh as an undergrad and YCP has no graduate program for what she wanted.

Retake the course.  Do not piss in your father's professional pool.  If you choose to try to sue your way out of your own half-assedness, you will be marked and the odds of you getting into anyone else's program, or get a job in a professional field, approach zero.  Prepare for your future career, assistant-managing a Wawa.
 
2013-02-12 11:35:10 PM  

exick: Is there some sort of rule at Lehigh where you aren't allowed to retake a class? Obviously I don't have all the facts, but how is it that a single grade that is two-thirds of a grade point lower than what she needed something so devastating not only to her academic progress but to her career as well?

She should take some advice from football players. A bad call late in the 4th causes you to lose by a field goal? Guess you should have been up by more than 2 points. If getting a zero for participation causes you to get a C+ and submarine your GPA so much that it destroys the career you were gunning for, you weren't doing well enough in the class to begin with.


For the most part, a student can retake any class, in theory. However, the grade earned in the retry will replace the original if it were a failing grade. A C+ is not a failing grade, so both grades would be on her transcripts if she were allowed to retake it. With a C+, most likely she would not.

College prof and advisor
 
2013-02-13 09:48:06 AM  

umad: Kimothy: But go ahead and tell me I'm entitled because I demanded fair treatment. It's okay. I understand.

The word you are looking for is "special."

"Fair" only works if everybody except you was allowed to leave the room.


Dude, you are a prick. Kimothy is being far too tolerant of your nonsense.
 
2013-02-13 07:54:45 PM  
She and the lawyer are the liberals making our country awesome!
 
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