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(Des Moines Register)   Des Moines, Iowa will allow the city's homeless to live in a tented community near a major bridge and thoroughfare. No word on when a fence will be erected "for their safety"   (desmoinesregister.com) divider line 18
    More: Followup, Des Moines, homeless, safety  
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2879 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Feb 2013 at 12:01 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-12 02:02:27 PM
4 votes:

Mr.Poops: don't have much sympathy for the homeless. Yes, there are some mentally handicapped homeless people that have no other options -- but many homeless choose to be homless because they're lazy or just don't care.


---------------
It is not just as easy as a person "making the choice" to be homeless. Mental illness is one of the biggest issues that bring on the behaviors that ultimately lead to living on the street. It is a far larger problem than people realize as not every person who cannot hold a job is running around with a tin-foil beanie and howling at he moon. There is a whole array of behaviors that will lead to the eviction of a person who may have been in a fine situation prior.

Even if one argues that some people chose to be homeless, it is not a choice made with a clear mind. These same people often also believe things like the fact that (remember, in their minds) that the government placed roaches with radio transmitters n their apartments to watch them. So they stopped living in the apartment and moved to the street. These same persons with their "chosen" homelessness, also self-medicate because the mental health facilities they sorely need are not available to them because they do not exist. But a bottle of MD20/20 helps quiet voices and lessen the ruminations for a while and they can afford it as opposed to a health plan that costs hundreds of dollars a month.

No, it is not logical, but that is the life. And yes, while some may "choose" that life, consider that soundness of logic of that decision in light of some of their other choices for perspective. The reasons people live under bridges are a bit more involved than just saying that this is "what they wanted". See what I am getting at?
---
The bridge(s) in question (Bing Map | as best I can figure). Living under a bridge is absolutely no fun. Trust me on this. However, if persons are doing so, there is a problem with the shelter system for any number of reasons from safety to not enough beds. Mayor Frank Cownie said he does not want to "criminalize the homeless" and "I don't think anybody is going to throw anybody in jail", yet the city is quick to post eviction notices. And what do you think will happen if people do not vacate? You guessed it - arrest.

There are countless and distinct reasons why they are homeless. Yes, some of the reasons of substance abuse, mental health and all the other issues apply - and in a very real way. But there are other parts of the equation people like to conveniently forget. Something as simple as a person with an arrest record, will have a far more difficult time finding a job than a person who does not or has the resources to explain or fight the conviction. Just a simple arrest record, say.....something like being evicted from a homeless camp under a bridge and then being arrested for vagrancy puts yet another obstacle in the path to get out of living under that bridge. And try to explain that to a potential employer. And when you can't pay the rent, what is a viable (albeit undesireable) alternative>> Yup, you guessed it....living under a bridge.

But that's ok....because "many homeless choose to be homless" (sic). and you will be with like minded people, yes? It will be like Burning Man, except a lot cheaper!! Also, you won't have to drive 500 miles in the desert or worry about being a participant as opposed to an observer because you have no choice in the matter - you are a participant whether you like it or not. Again, see what I am getting at?

And after the city comes to your rescue (usually during the election cycle) and you told to move or be arrested, it just becomes time to find another bridge I suppose. and wait until the next group of lawmakers feel it necessary to "search for better solutions for the homeless, focusing on public safety and public health." because it worked so well the time before?

Bottom line: nobody says you have to like the homeless. Just don't make their lives more difficult by furthering the myths that living on the street is a happy-happy-joy-joy world of self-determination and Ayn Randian bliss. Yeah, there are some people who are pretty rough out there, but there is a large portion of homeless people who, while not totally lost, still just keep sinking below the waterline of life. They able to grasp for enough air not to drown. But they still are in the water. Please don't thow them cinder blocks painted to look like life preservers.
2013-02-12 01:18:08 PM
2 votes:

Greylight: A start. If there is a need why not more shelters? Or to save money why not state welfare that pays for accommodations. Homeless living in camps is a shamful display of the communities priorities.


The shelters are pretty under-utilized unless the weather is terrible.
They can't seem to make a shelter without making rules too. Something that most of the homeless I've interacted with are trying to avoid.
"No sitting around smoking"
"No drinking"
"No Drugs"
"No sex.
If the alternative is camping, they choose camping.
2013-02-12 12:29:06 PM
2 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Why don't they just do all those jobs Americans won't do? Seems silly to import workers when we have enough unemployed people to fill up entire camps.


notsureifserious.jpg

you do realize that most homeless people have untreated mental illness and/or drug addictions that render them incapable of holding a job.... right?
2013-02-12 12:08:21 PM
2 votes:

evilmousse: In before they're called obamavilles ala hoovervilles.

Who am I kidding, if you know that context you're probably not on that side


Cheneyvilles?
2013-02-12 08:39:12 PM
1 votes:

LiberalEastCoastElitist: Kazan: you do realize that most homeless people have untreated mental illness been in and out of mental health facilities and non-complaint with medication and/or drug addictions have been to the local detox center so many times they get put on the "do not admit" list which renders them incapable of holding a job.... right?

Sorry, week 4 of 6 out of psych clerkship and pretty disillusioned with the mental health scene.


i didn't say the cause of it being untreated. those are not the only causes, but they are some of them.
2013-02-12 08:29:14 PM
1 votes:

Kazan: you do realize that most homeless people have untreated mental illness been in and out of mental health facilities and non-complaint with medication and/or drug addictions have been to the local detox center so many times they get put on the "do not admit" list which renders them incapable of holding a job.... right?


Sorry, week 4 of 6 out of psych clerkship and pretty disillusioned with the mental health scene.
2013-02-12 06:58:55 PM
1 votes:
Mr.Poops
many homeless choose to be homless because they're lazy or just don't care.

"many"


inner ted
& no, you are NOT gentrification and neither am i. it's a bullshiat word & a bullshiat idea.

You've probably never heard of it.


Spirit Hammer
They can't seem to make a shelter without making rules too. Something that most of the homeless I've interacted with are trying to avoid.
"No sitting around smoking"
"No drinking"
"No Drugs"
"No sex.


"Show up between exactly 7-8PM and if you're not in the first half of the line we'll run out of room. You get 20 nights per year. We'll hang on to your medications for you. If you fail a drug test or break any rules you're banned for life. If someone attacks you because he's crazy or thinks you stole something and you defend yourself, you're both banned. The appeals process is mostly hypothetical, especially if you can't afford a lawyer (you can't) or the public advocate nonprofit is understaffed (it is). Now fill out these twelve forms that you don't have the paperwork for and make three appointments by Tuesday with people who are on vacation until Wednesday or you're kicked out. If you have to go camp and end up getting raped or stabbed or die of hypothermia, we'll hold a candlelight vigil for you."


Smock Pot
Fark this shiat. Portland has a camp called Right 2 Dream 2 or some bullshiat. It went up after the Occupy business was finally booted from the parks. It's not safe, no matter what the bleeding hearts say.

Statistics are for bleeding-heart hippies, apparently.

If I knew how to solve the problem, I'd solve it.

So then shut your farking cakehole.

/lol you actually typed "Fark"


olddinosaur
There is no requirement to try to be better, so people keep staying in the same old hole.

Why should there be? Why is there a requirement to come up with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars just to live inside when there are so farking many empty houses, not even counting vacant stores and warehouses? Maybe people wouldn't act so knocked down if the barrier to entry for basic dignity was low enough that everyone could reach it, hm?


BarkingUnicorn
Why should Occupy be placated by mere talk about looking for a nonprofit to do something next summer?

Why should they be placated? "Occupy" is a tactic, not a brand. It means "GO farkING TAKE A BUILDING".
2013-02-12 04:55:03 PM
1 votes:

Spirit Hammer: Greylight: A start. If there is a need why not more shelters? Or to save money why not state welfare that pays for accommodations. Homeless living in camps is a shamful display of the communities priorities.

The shelters are pretty under-utilized unless the weather is terrible.
They can't seem to make a shelter without making rules too. Something that most of the homeless I've interacted with are trying to avoid.
"No sitting around smoking"
"No drinking"
"No Drugs"
"No sex.
If the alternative is camping, they choose camping.


TFA cites the lack of space in shelters as a contributing factor. More to the point though shelters don't get their peak usage in the worst weather, that's when people hunker down wherever they are at.

You're right in at one point, alcoholics are regularly turned out from any supporting organization regardless of their mental health. It's disgraceful.

It's also a foolish waste of money as they often end up in the hospital or needing to be temporarily housed in hotels by social services. If it wasn't for trying to appease middle class guilt and blaming the needy for their situation we could save tax dollars and actually do something good for society in general. Instead we pander to the lies and preconceived notions that allow our politicians to avoid tackeling unpopular issues.

No one should be hungry or poor in North America except as a failure on all of our parts.
2013-02-12 01:51:47 PM
1 votes:
Fark this shiat. Portland has a camp called Right 2 Dream 2 or some bullshiat. It went up after the Occupy business was finally booted from the parks. It's not safe, no matter what the bleeding hearts say. Shelters are always full (I work in one and volunteer for another), but the solution isn't a vacant lot covered in tarps and tents. If I knew how to solve the problem, I'd solve it.
2013-02-12 01:29:58 PM
1 votes:
A bit off topic, but the phrase "for their safety" cracks me up. I can't help but think of mobsters talking to some hapless buisnessman:

"It's a dangerous world out there, lot's of unsafe things. Fires, accidents, late suppliers, even a bad rep that scares away customers. It's really fortunate that you have friends like us who can keep you safe - for a small fee, of course.

Just imagine how much better you'll sleep knowing you, your business and your family are safe."

/Ahh, Safety. What indignity can't you justify?
2013-02-12 01:21:07 PM
1 votes:

YixilTesiphon: But that weak episode of DS9 was set in San Francisco.


Yeah, but it also said that Sanctuary Districts were present in most US cities by 2024.

So, the first one going up in 2013 isn't that far off.
2013-02-12 12:56:13 PM
1 votes:

MemeSlave: atomicmask: When the rich build walls and fences around themselves, keep out others, and demand government welfare...its considered Capitalism
When the middle class build walls and fences, keep out others, and demand government welfare...its considered racist
When the poor get put in walls and fences, keep out others, and demand government welfare... its called communism.
Kings get castles
The middle class get villages
and the poor get serfdoms.

1/10


give him 2/10, he didn't stretch it that long.
2013-02-12 12:54:12 PM
1 votes:

MemeSlave: atomicmask: When the rich build walls and fences around themselves, keep out others, and demand government welfare...its considered Capitalism
When the middle class build walls and fences, keep out others, and demand government welfare...its considered racist
When the poor get put in walls and fences, keep out others, and demand government welfare... its called communism.
Kings get castles
The middle class get villages
and the poor get serfdoms.

1/10


Who is trolling exactly? Not every opinion you disagree with is out to get a reaction out of you.
2013-02-12 12:29:27 PM
1 votes:
We built this fancy new homeless shelter that has become an attraction among the Midwest homeless population.  Nice warm cots, fancy facilities, cable TV, all pretty swank.  Not that I think a homeless shelter should have any fewer amenities than a prison, but of course there is an overcrowding problem.

Something needs to be done, but taking away what shelter they do have is asinine.
2013-02-12 12:26:52 PM
1 votes:

Government Fromage: evilmousse: In before they're called obamavilles ala hoovervilles.

Who am I kidding, if you know that context you're probably not on that side

Cheneyvilles?


I was just going to post "Hooverville", but I like your idea better.
2013-02-12 12:17:42 PM
1 votes:
District 9?
2013-02-12 12:06:36 PM
1 votes:
In before they're called obamavilles ala hoovervilles.

Who am I kidding, if you know that context you're probably not on that side
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-02-12 11:37:05 AM
1 votes:
Well, it's easier to manage the problem if you have a camp or something where you can concentrate them.  Maybe we can finally have a solution to the problem.
 
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