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(Parity News)   Wait a minute, there's actually good news about the environment?   (paritynews.com) divider line 13
    More: Cool, environments, Antarctica, chlorofluorocarbons, ozone layer, weather satellites, Montreal Protocol, South Pole, international agreement  
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9571 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Feb 2013 at 5:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-12 05:23:46 AM
5 votes:
It is funny to remember the headlines when CFCs were banned about how the entire global economy was going to crash and burn because of such massive government interference in the markets.
2013-02-12 09:37:23 AM
2 votes:
ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov

Mose: Can we see the data in numerical form, possibly even graphical, to determine if there's been a positive trend since the Montreal Protocol?


Data from NASA.  Short version:

Top graph: The ozone hole went from undetectable to 20,000,000 km2 in the 1980s.  We banned a bunch of ozone-depleting substances, and the size of the hole basically leveled off.  CFCs stick around in the upper atmosphere for several decades, so we're now waiting them out.

Bottom graph: The thinnest point of the ozone "hole"  dropped by roughly a factor of two while we were still cranking out CFCs.  We banned them, and it leveled out.

Longer version:

The 1995 Chemistry Nobel lectures from Molina, Crutzen, and Rowland are here.  They got the cause and mechanism correct in the 1970s, but it took 10-15 years to get political capital to act.  Of course, back then the Republican party was not aggressively stupid about sensible environmental legislation (emphasis mine):

"To the Senate of the United States: I transmit herewith, for the advice and consent of the Senate to ratification, the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer, done at Montreal on September 16, 1987. The report of the Department of State is also enclosed for the information of the Senate. The Montreal Protocol provides for internationally coordinated control of ozone-depleting substances in order to protect public health and the environment from potential adverse effects of depletion of stratospheric ozone. The Protocol was negotiated under the auspices of the United Nations Environment Program, pursuant to the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer, which was ratified by the United States in August 1986. In this historic agreement, the international community undertakes cooperative measures to protect a vital global resource. The United States played a leading role in the negotiation of the Protocol. United States ratification is necessary for entry into force and effective implementation of the Protocol. Early ratification by the United States will encourage similar action by other nations whose participation is also essential. I recommend that the Senate give early and favorable consideration to the Protocol and give its advice and consent to ratification.

Ronald Reagan
The White House
December 21, 1987"
2013-02-12 05:41:49 AM
2 votes:
As I said in the other link to this story.

Sorry the whole 'ozone hole' thing didn't work out the way you wanted and it is probably a naturally occurring phenomenon but you learned your lessons... You're much better at creating global panic over absolutely nothing now, so maybe 'climate change' will do a better job of creating a global panic the way you want.
2013-02-12 05:38:39 AM
2 votes:
"Scientists" if the ozone hole closes - "We told you CFCs were the problem".

"Scientists" if the ozone hole doesn't close - "We told you that it was too late".

Science, it just works...either way....bizzatches.
2013-02-12 10:37:09 AM
1 votes:
chimp_ninja: Top graph: The ozone hole went from undetectable to 20,000,000 km2 in the 1980s. We banned a bunch of ozone-depleting substances, and the size of the hole basically leveled off.  CFCs stick around in the upper atmosphere for several decades, so we're now waiting them out.

That's not correct. The "correct" answer is that the ozone hole was first directly measured in 1984 from ground stations in Antarctica. Subsequent reanalysis of satellite imagery showed a hole as far back as 1977, but the technology was immature, so it's not really known when the hole started nor how large it was prior to the mid-70's.
2013-02-12 07:37:48 AM
1 votes:

RabidJade: But you know, let's just take the loudest and most obnoxious scientists at face value and run around in a panic waiting for the sky to implode.


www.desmogblog.com
oh yeah... .definitely just a handful of alarmists.
2013-02-12 06:42:52 AM
1 votes:
sudo give me more cowbell:
1970's: Global Cooling, everyone panic!
Nobody ever said this. Ever. Stop being deliberately dishonest.


Hrm,
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914,00.html
http://denisdutton.com/newsweek_coolingworld.pdf

Although it has been refuted my point was it was published in more than one place to create environmental panic in that decade. To refute a lot of that evidence some organizations reported they didn't have a great understanding of climate change for the era. But you know, let's just take the loudest and most obnoxious scientists at face value and run around in a panic waiting for the sky to implode.

Science is just another form of religion with the sides proving each other wrong with information that only certain people take as fact. Government mandating science isn't the proper course of action either.
2013-02-12 06:22:47 AM
1 votes:

xria: It is funny to remember the headlines when CFCs were banned about how the entire global economy was going to crash and burn because of such massive government interference in the markets.


Banning CFCs = A chemical in my fridge is replaced with another. BFD
Moving away from fossil fuel = I have to change the way I live. OMFG!
2013-02-12 06:06:09 AM
1 votes:

RabidJade: randomjsa: As I said in the other link to this story.

Sorry the whole 'ozone hole' thing didn't work out the way you wanted and it is probably a naturally occurring phenomenon but you learned your lessons... You're much better at creating global panic over absolutely nothing now, so maybe 'climate change' will do a better job of creating a global panic the way you want.

More easier to say some thrive on chaos and will twist facts any way in the name of positive change.

1970's: Global Cooling, everyone panic!

Nobody ever said this. Ever. Stop being deliberately dishonest.
1980's: Ozone is depleting, everyone panic! -Let's ban CFC's since they've been shown to be causing the probem.
2000's: Hey, that whole "banning CFC's thing" actually worked. Great!
1990's: Global Warming,
everyone panic!
2000's: Global Climate Change, everyone panic! sit on their asses and do nothing because we don't like science and prefer to live in our own pretend reality where science doesn't work.
2013-02-12 05:59:40 AM
1 votes:

randomjsa: As I said in the other link to this story.

Sorry the whole 'ozone hole' thing didn't work out the way you wanted and it is probably a naturally occurring phenomenon but you learned your lessons... You're much better at creating global panic over absolutely nothing now, so maybe 'climate change' will do a better job of creating a global panic the way you want.


More easier to say some thrive on chaos and will twist facts any way in the name of positive change.

1970's: Global Cooling, everyone panic!
1980's: Ozone is depleting, everyone panic!
1990's: Global Warming, everyone panic!
2000's: Global Climate Change, everyone panic!
2013-02-12 05:30:44 AM
1 votes:
looks cyclical.

/ducks
2013-02-12 05:23:44 AM
1 votes:
This goes against everything libs believe
2013-02-11 11:56:21 PM
1 votes:
You mean something man did actually worked?  (CFC ban)

We must quash this false data, else everyone will expect us to do something about climate change!
 
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