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(NPR)   Sorry, hippie, but that "certified sustainable" seafood you're spending twice as much to buy at the grocery store is no better for the planet than any other seafood. In fact, it might be worse   (npr.org) divider line 57
    More: Dumbass, Carrie Brownstein, global ocean, ranking system, Filet-O-Fish, Marine Stewardship Council, sustainable seafood, Pew Environment Group, World Wildlife Fund  
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6751 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Feb 2013 at 9:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-11 08:24:01 PM  
Marketing lies and tries to take advantage of people trying to be better? color me shocked!
 
2013-02-11 08:32:21 PM  
I first heard the word "greenwashing" when I was at a friend's wedding in Northern California years ago.

I thought it was rather clever, the fact that I told them so and they thanked me with a bag of organic peaches and herb the size of Guam is another story which quite frankly, I would rather not discuss.
 
2013-02-11 09:06:12 PM  
But free market would never screw the consumer.
 
2013-02-11 09:07:23 PM  
Let's give both the pro-MSC environmentalists and the anti-MSC environmentalists harpoons, put them together on a ship and set them adrift near the Grand Banks in the middle of winter. Whoever loses, we all win.
 
2013-02-11 09:08:25 PM  
A large corporate entity known as Whole Foods that is run by a union busting libertarian CEO is lying about it's products? Color me shocked!
 
2013-02-11 09:08:27 PM  
I DEMAND WE BRING BACK DDT
 
2013-02-11 09:10:10 PM  
(Says) Jim Barnes, director of the Antarctic and Southern Ocean Coalition, a network of dozens of environmental groups around the world..."It can be a force for good."

But what does a guy like that know about protecting the environment?
 
2013-02-11 09:15:41 PM  
Whole Foods?  [checks article]  Yep, Whole Foods.

In other news, f*ck Whole Foods.
 
2013-02-11 09:20:04 PM  
Does this mean that marketing weenies will actually deceive us?
 
2013-02-11 09:20:07 PM  
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that those same people who buy "sustainable" fish from Whole Foods also eat sushi.
I think sushi and overfishing go hand in hand.

I try to stay away from sushi but when I do I don't get tuna.

Interesting series from NPR.
 
2013-02-11 09:22:31 PM  

brap: I first heard the word "greenwashing" when I was at a friend's wedding in Northern California years ago.

I thought it was rather clever, the fact that I told them so and they thanked me with a bag of organic peaches and herb the size of Guam is another story which quite frankly, I would rather not discuss.


If that herb was from our near-legendary Emerald Triangle,you don't have to discuss the story. I can make a pretty safe bet most of those peaches did not make it home anywhere but your belly.

/wait until you meet people who want to know how many miles from your home your food is produced
//they're called "locavores" and it's been a big, trendy, but I'm sure heartfelt, kinda thing in NorCal for nearly 10 years now
 
2013-02-11 09:25:26 PM  
If conservatives had their way food labeling would be illegal, and we'd still be buying bread that was 15% sawdust.
 
2013-02-11 09:26:36 PM  

Huggermugger: If conservatives had their way food labeling would be illegal, and we'd still be buying bread that was 15% sawdust.


The obesity problem in the U.S. would probably be solved, though.
 
2013-02-11 09:26:53 PM  
Well, food that comes from the sea is grody.

I pee in the sea when I swim there, and so do you. Then you go eat it.
 
2013-02-11 09:27:50 PM  
I watched a documentary about over-fishing the other day.

Basically, we should be fishing x to allow fish populations to bounce back. The U.N. set International quotas at 2x after 6 months of non-stop arguing. What we actually bring in is 8x. Even the countries that agreed to the quota are ignoring it.

/ about the only place that abides by any of the quotas is Alaska
 
2013-02-11 09:28:06 PM  

neongoats: Well, food that comes from the sea is grody.

I pee in the sea when I swim there, and so do you. Then you go eat it.


And the farm fields are all sprayed with cow shiat, what's your point?
 
2013-02-11 09:29:18 PM  

Huggermugger: If conservatives had their way food labeling would be illegal, and we'd still be buying bread that was 15% sawdust.


Making up stuff is fun.  I do it sometimes, to pass the time.
 
2013-02-11 09:30:13 PM  
It doesn't have to be terrible.
Open Blue is a company that produced 1 million pounds of fish last year in Deep Water enclosures http://www.openblue.com">http://www.openblue.com
They are working off the coast of Panama, http://www.forbes.com/sites/billfrezza/2012/11/25/regulatory-uncertain ty-drives-a-fish-farmer-to-foreign-waters/">http://www.forbes.com/sit es/billfrezza/2012/11/25/regulatory-uncertain ty-drives-a-fish-farmer-to-foreign-waters/

If we got away from shallow water operations, and stopped playing political games to protect fisherman in areas that are almost entirely fished out, the price of protein would fall to much lower prices, and again we could stop wasting billions of gallons of water, on producing beef, lamb and chicken, for cat and dogfood, when fish protein would fill the bill that much easier, and much less impactfully on the aquifers, and near coastlines that are becoming more polluted due to current aquacultural practices.
 
2013-02-11 09:30:51 PM  
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-02-11 09:31:05 PM  
neongoats
Well, food that comes from the sea is grody.

I pee in the sea when I swim there, and so do you. Then you go eat it.


Think how many fishes there are and where they go to relieve themselves.
And then there are the sperm whales...
 
2013-02-11 09:33:58 PM  

The Voice of Doom: And then there are the sperm whales..




Are we eating whale sperm?

/ewwwww!
 
2013-02-11 09:35:55 PM  

Kazan: Marketing lies and tries to take advantage of people trying to be better suckers? color me shocked!

 
FTFY
 
2013-02-11 09:36:54 PM  

stuhayes2010: But free market would never screw the consumer.


No, but dishonest global warmers would
 
2013-02-11 09:36:58 PM  
From the article:

"...almost 80 percent of the people who eat seafood regularly said it is "important" or "very important" that their seafood is sustainably caught."

So 80% of people are hippies, submitter? That's a strange definition.
 
2013-02-11 09:41:25 PM  

rankled: From the article:

"...almost 80 percent of the people who eat seafood regularly said it is "important" or "very important" that their seafood is sustainably caught."

So 80% of people are hippies, submitter? That's a strange definition.


No, 80% of people who eat seafood regularly are hippies.
 
2013-02-11 09:42:54 PM  
Not gonna lie, I didn't read the entire article. Can someone with a longer attention span point out where the article states that MSC labeling could actually be worse for the environment.
 
2013-02-11 09:45:11 PM  

iheartscotch: I watched a documentary about over-fishing the other day.

Basically, we should be fishing x to allow fish populations to bounce back. The U.N. set International quotas at 2x after 6 months of non-stop arguing. What we actually bring in is 8x. Even the countries that agreed to the quota are ignoring it.

/ about the only place that abides by any of the quotas is Alaska


Don't you get it man... the damn gubbermint is trying to take away your recreational fishing rights.  Pew research is just making stuff up, at the behest of Al Gore... and the American Red Snapper is a fish that is essential for liberty.
 
2013-02-11 09:48:54 PM  
Anybody who doesn't realize that the "sustainable" label is nothing more than an advertizing gimmick deserves to be fleeced.
 
2013-02-11 09:51:13 PM  

o_blah: Not gonna lie, I didn't read the entire article. Can someone with a longer attention span point out where the article states that MSC labeling could actually be worse for the environment.


It is a thing apprently... something deep to the essence of the Farketypal "Penn and Teller : Bullshiat" type poster.  Not exactly political, but anyone who thinks any one thing might be better than another, or good for the world in general, must be wrong for some trivial reason.  For example, "Organic food is actually worse for the environment because of all the extra stickers that must be printed to label them as such!"
 
2013-02-11 09:53:43 PM  

neongoats: rankled: From the article:

"...almost 80 percent of the people who eat seafood regularly said it is "important" or "very important" that their seafood is sustainably caught."

So 80% of people are hippies, submitter? That's a strange definition.

No, 80% of people who eat seafood regularly are hippies.


Around this part of Louisiana we call them "coonasses".
 
2013-02-11 09:55:21 PM  
I found the problem:

"...a fishery that wants the label hires one of roughly a dozen commercial auditing companies to decide whether its practices comply ..."

Conflict of interest.
 
2013-02-11 09:56:49 PM  

karmaceutical: iheartscotch: I watched a documentary about over-fishing the other day.

Basically, we should be fishing x to allow fish populations to bounce back. The U.N. set International quotas at 2x after 6 months of non-stop arguing. What we actually bring in is 8x. Even the countries that agreed to the quota are ignoring it.

/ about the only place that abides by any of the quotas is Alaska

Don't you get it man... the damn gubbermint is trying to take away your recreational fishing rights.  Pew research is just making stuff up, at the behest of Al Gore... and the American Red Snapper is a fish that is essential for liberty.


Yeah; mr. Gore got a Nobel for a PowerPoint presentation.

It's pretty obvious to anyone in the industry that we can't keep fishing the way we have been. If i remember right; our fishing capacity could pick the ocean clean in a year.

/ basically we'd need about 20 carrier groups to enforce a world wide quota
 
2013-02-11 10:02:49 PM  
Sorry, hippie yuppie, but that "certified sustainable" seafood you're spending twice as much to buy at the grocery store is no better for the planet than any other seafood. In fact, it might be worse
Fixed that for you, subby!

Us "hippies" have known all along that there is no such thing as sustainable seafood. Maybe there could be, but it hasn't happened yet and before it could even begin we'd need decades of no commercial fishing at all just to get back to a good starting point.

It's the yuppies who shop at Whole Paycheck Market who are buying into the marketing BS of so-called sustainable seafood.

/Also, do you really think that hippies have enough money to shop at WFM? Ha!
 
2013-02-11 10:16:52 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: brap: I first heard the word "greenwashing" when I was at a friend's wedding in Northern California years ago.

I thought it was rather clever, the fact that I told them so and they thanked me with a bag of organic peaches and herb the size of Guam is another story which quite frankly, I would rather not discuss.

If that herb was from our near-legendary Emerald Triangle,you don't have to discuss the story. I can make a pretty safe bet most of those peaches did not make it home anywhere but your belly.

/wait until you meet people who want to know how many miles from your home your food is produced
//they're called "locavores" and it's been a big, trendy, but I'm sure heartfelt, kinda thing in NorCal for nearly 10 years now


I'm a Seattle girl living in a house full of chefs/locavores, sooo...

/I'm more of an opportunivore.
//Probably not the Carrie Brownstein from TFA.
 
2013-02-11 10:21:39 PM  
To be sustainable using Open Blue's model, we would need 320,000 Open Blue operations world wide (160 Million Tons (2000 lbs per ton) of fish, currently being harvested annually combined open water and close to shore aquaculture, divided by 1 million lbs of Open Blue 2012 fish production).

So 320,000 x 2400 square feet per operation, or approximately 27.54 square miles of Open Blue type operations spread across the deep waters along the atlantic and pacific 200 mile terrritorial waters of the US coastline and we could have essentially an unlimited fishery, (maybe not the variety that we have now, but certainly the same quantity) produced in a sustainable manner.
 
2013-02-11 10:23:12 PM  

iheartscotch: I watched a documentary about over-fishing the other day.

Basically, we should be fishing x to allow fish populations to bounce back. The U.N. set International quotas at 2x after 6 months of non-stop arguing. What we actually bring in is 8x. Even the countries that agreed to the quota are ignoring it.

/ about the only place that abides by any of the quotas is Alaska


Humans can't help themselves. Governments can't do it and markets are corrupt to the point of being ineffective.

The fish are doomed.
 
2013-02-11 10:38:02 PM  

ladyfortuna: neongoats: Well, food that comes from the sea is grody.

I pee in the sea when I swim there, and so do you. Then you go eat it.

And the farm fields are all sprayed with cow shiat, what's your point?


It's a well-known fact that seawater is 90% fish gametes.

//no really
 
2013-02-11 10:42:19 PM  
Needs obvious tag.
 
2013-02-11 10:44:21 PM  
Everything looks bad, and it is bad, but it doesn't have to continue that way, we just have to stop thinking like we have for the past 60 years, because in reality that is all that we have been in the current modern era of "the tragedy of the commons" type of operating mode with the ocean.
If we can stop thinking of continuous work and business practices that have worked on a small scale for the past 250 years and start thinking about operations that might limit work, but work on a large scale for the next 250 years, we'll get past this transition relatively unscathed.
It's only if we limit our own capacity by thinking about the "good old days" as the only way to get stuff done that it continues to get worse.
 
2013-02-11 10:44:55 PM  
A co-orker hails from Newfoundland, use to commercial fish with his father for some years prior to becoming a tech-weenie. Her told me that most of the scallops sold are actually manta ray fins, cut out with a sort of cookie-cutter type thingie. At least it's from the sea.
 
2013-02-11 10:48:57 PM  
Monterey Bay Aquarium is way better anyway. They don't certify companies, they certify methods, fish and location.
 
2013-02-11 10:57:43 PM  

iheartscotch: I watched a documentary about over-fishing the other day.

Basically, we should be fishing x to allow fish populations to bounce back. The U.N. set International quotas at 2x after 6 months of non-stop arguing. What we actually bring in is 8x. Even the countries that agreed to the quota are ignoring it.

/ about the only place that abides by any of the quotas is Alaska


I watched one on netflix a while back called End of the Line.  One thing that really stayed with me was a graphic showing how the reach of fishing trawlers has spread in just the last 40 years.  Use to be that most countries fished just off their own coast, but as fish stocks depleted they pushed further and further out.  Today there are only small slivers of ocean in far flung areas of the Pacific that are not getting literally mass fished.

Also FTA if you are purchasing Sustainable Chilean sea bass then they are taking advantage of your ignorance more than you desire to do good.  I would hope that anyone who cared even a little bit about where their food comes from would take some time with a little thing called Google and discover for themselves that fish stocks like Chilean Sea Bass and Blue-fin Tuna are critically endangered.
 
2013-02-11 11:06:41 PM  

ManRay: Humans can't help themselves. Governments can't do it and markets are corrupt to the point of being ineffective.


You sound smart.  What you doin' on Fark?
 
2013-02-11 11:11:51 PM  
I had wild caught Canadian Swordfish tonight, so I'm getting a kick...
 
2013-02-11 11:21:28 PM  

VTGremlin: I had wild caught Canadian Swordfish tonight, so I'm getting a kick...


that kick you're getting might be Mercury poisoning.  Swordfish has some of the highest concentration of mercury levels in commercially available fish.
/Sorry, not trying to be that douchey guy.
 
2013-02-11 11:24:59 PM  

iheartscotch: I watched a documentary about over-fishing the other day.

Basically, we should be fishing x to allow fish populations to bounce back. The U.N. set International quotas at 2x after 6 months of non-stop arguing. What we actually bring in is 8x. Even the countries that agreed to the quota are ignoring it.

/ about the only place that abides by any of the quotas is Alaska


Tragedy of the commons meets the real world.
 
2013-02-12 12:08:58 AM  

Farxist Marxist: Her told me that most of the scallops sold are actually manta ray fins, cut out with a sort of cookie-cutter type thingie.


I suppose it's possible, but really, if you can't tell the difference, you probably shouldn't be spending $16/lb on anything you eat. The grain of the muscle would run the wrong direction, across the face instead of up and down. It would be instantly obvious to anybody who had ever eaten a scallop before.

Not saying that they don't do it anyway, but I'd be surprised if they could get away with it twice.
 
kab
2013-02-12 12:29:51 AM  
FTA:
McDonald's says you are munching on "certified sustainable" wild Alaskan pollock every time you eat a Filet-O-Fish sandwich.

Fortunately, no one in the US is dumb enough to honestly believe that.

Right?


Guys??
 
2013-02-12 12:31:24 AM  

reverend maynard: VTGremlin: I had wild caught Canadian Swordfish tonight, so I'm getting a kick...

that kick you're getting might be Mercury poisoning.  Swordfish has some of the highest concentration of mercury levels in commercially available fish.
/Sorry, not trying to be that douchey guy.


BUT IT'S SO GOOD! I actually just had it for the first time a few months ago, so hopefully 3 times in my life won't kill me.
 
2013-02-12 12:44:25 AM  

reverend maynard: iheartscotch: I watched a documentary about over-fishing the other day.

Basically, we should be fishing x to allow fish populations to bounce back. The U.N. set International quotas at 2x after 6 months of non-stop arguing. What we actually bring in is 8x. Even the countries that agreed to the quota are ignoring it.

/ about the only place that abides by any of the quotas is Alaska

I watched one on netflix a while back called End of the Line.  One thing that really stayed with me was a graphic showing how the reach of fishing trawlers has spread in just the last 40 years.  Use to be that most countries fished just off their own coast, but as fish stocks depleted they pushed further and further out.  Today there are only small slivers of ocean in far flung areas of the Pacific that are not getting literally mass fished.

Also FTA if you are purchasing Sustainable Chilean sea bass then they are taking advantage of your ignorance more than you desire to do good.  I would hope that anyone who cared even a little bit about where their food comes from would take some time with a little thing called Google and discover for themselves that fish stocks like Chilean Sea Bass and Blue-fin Tuna are critically endangered.


They did one of those Undercover Boss shows on a massive fishing boat.  Some Norwegian fishing family guy who supplied fish to McDonalds or the fish stick people or some such.  Anyway... what struck me was the fish they were catching, some sleazy looking thing you would toss back if you caught it on a hook and line.  I got the impression (though the show was in no way about this) that it was one of the few if not only fish left in this volume.  That is a lot of fishing pressure.  Couple that with the warming/coral bleaching... well, no more fish sticks.
 
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