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(TreeHugger)   NYT Reporter: "The new Tesla sedan doesn't come close to stated range in cold conditions. It had to be towed home." Tesla CEO: "Guess what? Our car logged your GPS & battery data, and it says you're full of shiat." Watt now?   (treehugger.com ) divider line
    More: Plug, NYT, Model S, Elon Musk, Motor Trend  
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22699 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Feb 2013 at 11:45 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-02-11 11:53:03 PM  
11 votes:
God, RTFA. Tesla puts a data logger on THE CARS THEY LEND TO JOURNALISTS.
2013-02-11 09:26:11 PM  
7 votes:
Looking over his article titles he seems to shill for big oil.
2013-02-11 11:55:42 PM  
6 votes:
Automotive journalists are only second to video game journalists in rankings of full of shiat shills.
2013-02-11 09:19:53 PM  
6 votes:
What! You don't say.  A media member has once again took a bias view and tweeked the test to get the desired results.  Good thing the car didn't have a gas tank.  They would've added a sparking device to blow the tank (chevy truck).  Or like the Ford Explorer, when a tv crew ran a test to prove how safe the vehicle was by only blowing a rear tire while driving a straight line.

/somebody paid this journalist
2013-02-12 12:08:51 AM  
5 votes:

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/may/12/pressandpublishing.usnew s  They already lied before, and thats because they were just lazy
2013-02-11 10:57:31 PM  
5 votes:
Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.
2013-02-11 11:55:06 PM  
4 votes:

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


"Payoffs from oil companies with a definite interest in the status quo" aren't a reason to lie?
2013-02-12 01:30:51 AM  
3 votes:

I sound fat: Note to self:  do not buy said car, they keep track of your comings and goings.


UGH! This thread is so full of stupid, it actually physically hurts.

1)ALL cars keep logs. These logs include various things from engine and wheel speed to error codes thrown during operation to any interaction with any system in the car (hitting the brakes, turning on the wipers, ATC/TCS having to step in, etc.), and in some cases directional heading if there is a compass built in or GPS coordinates if there is a GPS unit (as there might be with Tesla), as well as additional car-specific features (battery charging/consumption, AWD state, etc).
2)The only system that lets cars "phone home" with the contents of the log is OnStar. That's it. Tesla does not have a cell radio in their black box.
3)The tracking  CAN be turned on with the owners permission by Tesla. The owner has to sign a consent form when picking up the car. This is much like when software companies ask you to submit an anonymous crash report after a system crash. This data is not sent automatically, but rather is pulled from the logs when the car comes in for service or is otherwise returned to Tesla.
4)Journalists have logging turned on by default. I assume they are simply required to sign a consent as a prerequisite to getting a review loaner. This journalist probably signed the review loan paperwork without reading it. When he  returned the car, Tesla pulled his logs. When the review went up, Tesla reviewed the logs they had pulled  MANUALLY WHILE THE CAR WAS IN THEIR HANDS.
5)
 NO ONEis monitoring your coming and going. If they are, you either consented to it, you have a warrant out, or someone is playing fast and loose with the law and is in deep shiat if you find out and press charges.
2013-02-12 12:01:00 AM  
3 votes:

Gyrfalcon: jake_lex: ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.

That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.

I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box, but you don't like hearing a car company admitting "We can see everything in that black box at any time."

You don't hear them ADMITTING it...but that doesn't mean they can't.


Outside of Tesla and GM's OnStar program, most black boxes lack the means to phone home.  They can be read after a crash, but they don't continually report back.

I believe GM's fine print tells you that data gets uploaded in the event of a crash or other event that requires emergency help.
2013-02-11 09:23:45 PM  
3 votes:

Nezorf: It will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
People mocking electrical cars
GPS data being released
Accusations of lying
The journalist ranks closing on Tesla motors so they don't get any more reviews as they "undermined' one of the their own


I want to see the Tesla blog details to find out if this is idiot error of if the journalist out and out made shiat up.  If he charged the battery to 90% and ran out of juice, MAYBE that's an excuse.  If he started driving with a 50% chard and took a roundabout way home, that's inexcusable.
2013-02-11 08:49:21 PM  
3 votes:
It will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
People mocking electrical cars
GPS data being released
Accusations of lying
The journalist ranks closing on Tesla motors so they don't get any more reviews as they "undermined' one of the their own
2013-02-12 01:51:51 AM  
2 votes:

Happy Hours: Jeremy Clarkson is amused

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x315]


Top Gear definitely rigged that test to make the Tesla look bad for several reasons:

1.  It's an American car, so they have to trash it
2.  It didn't have a lick of British technology, so they had to trash it
3.  It wasn't a Ferrari, so they couldn't lick its balls
4.  It wasn't a fuel guzzling supercar, so they had to trash it.

You will notice they always rig these tests to make certain cars win, or cars win in general.  Like the car vs plain, car vs train, etc.

Entertaining show, but just recognize what they try to do.
2013-02-12 01:25:24 AM  
2 votes:

mediablitz: State laws written by car manufacturers and dealers

.

As I understand it, these state laws are designed to protect dealers, not car manufacturers  Traditionally, there have been lots of car dealers and their friends/ families in local state legislatures.

I've always wondered why no car manufacturer has challenged these laws under the interstate commerce clause of the constitution.  If any state tries to prohibit Tesla from selling direct to the customer, Tesla may be the test case.
2013-02-12 01:13:49 AM  
2 votes:
I'd just like to have a word with all of you about a particular word and its usage.

The word I keep seeing used incorrectly is  bias.

You are biased. You are not bias.
The reporter is biased toward the oil industry. The reporter is not bias toward the oil industry.
The media has a biased view. The media does not have a bias view.
You can have a bias. You can also  be biased.
When you have a bias, you are biased. When you have a bias, you are not bias.

That's all. May Gozer have mercy on your soul. You're welcome.
2013-02-12 12:55:24 AM  
2 votes:
The need to get this car done so they can get working on this...

media.moddb.com
2013-02-12 12:06:16 AM  
2 votes:
I bet Edison's sedan can electrify its potential customers...and elephants.
2013-02-12 12:02:20 AM  
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Lsherm: I do have to say, I have a 2006 Infiniti G35 sedan and the EPA estimates were a little low.  It was listed at 17/22 and I get about 23 on the highway.  They've only dropped about .2 mpg over the years, but the car has 140,000 miles on it, so that's expected.  When the AWD kicks in it can really hurt the mileage so it's good it doesn't snow much around here.

What's strange is that it seems that every car I've had with a huge motor and low mileage estimates does better while fuel efficient vehicles do worse than the EPA numbers.


The EPA doesnt actually test vehicles these days they just apply a math formula based on weight and hp. Anyways the formula consistantly over estimates mileage for small vehicles andunderestimates mileage for large vehicles because it doesnt account for the fact that volume increases by the cube area increases by the square, so it does not take aerodynamics in to account at all.
2013-02-12 12:01:29 AM  
2 votes:
I'll reserve my outrage until I see the data.
2013-02-11 11:59:58 PM  
2 votes:

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


Unlike conservatives and libturdarians we're going to find out the facts, not jump to conclusions based on who said it.
2013-02-11 11:57:53 PM  
2 votes:

jake_lex: ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.

That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.

I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box, but you don't like hearing a car company admitting "We can see everything in that black box at any time."


You don't hear them ADMITTING it...but that doesn't mean they can't.
2013-02-11 11:57:37 PM  
2 votes:

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: God, RTFA. Tesla puts a data logger on THE CARS THEY LEND TO JOURNALISTS.


No, according to tweets, they only turn it on when they lend it to journalists.
2013-02-11 09:28:57 PM  
2 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Looking over his article titles he seems to shill for big oil.


I read his article and it seems it should be pretty easy to cross check his multiple phone calls to Tesla, verify the story with the tow truck driver, and check (from Tesla) that the car went where he said it did.
2013-02-11 09:27:44 PM  
2 votes:
I'm betting that the NY Times version of events is closest to the truth.

The article didn't make it all that bad for them-- just part of the learning curve with a new technology.

Elon seems determined to turn it into tons of free negative advertising.  He cannot win.
2013-02-12 01:30:10 PM  
1 vote:

gweilo8888: You're comparing apples to actuaries -- the comparison makes absolutely zero sense and is of zero relevance to anybody who isn't you.

And good job ignoring the fact that the meat of your previous posts re: typical annual gas expenditure was rubbish, too.


I'm comparing Apples, to what I have. I have a 2005 Toyota Tacoma (worth about $15,000). It costs me an arm and a leg to drive with current gas prices. I have the options of:

A: Use what I got. Drive what I have at 18mpg, for about $3,000 a year in gas + ongoing maintenance costs = spending roughly $4,000 a year.

B: Trade-in, buy an efficient small car. selling the truck, and buying a new compact gasoline car. Let's say a base Honda Civic LX, that gets 32 mpg combined and costs $20k. Driving 15k miles a year, I'll spend ~$1,600 in gas, and need to pay about $7,500 to cover the difference in value from my truck and taxes. Pay $7,500 up front to save $1,400 a year in gas - going down to a econo-box.

C: Go used. Sell my truck, and buy a used car (~$1,600 in gas) + have unknown reliability. Possibly save $1,400 a year in gas.

D: Lease an electric car. Keep my truck for occasional use, and lease an optioned-out electric car with heated seats, nav system, Bluetooth, backup cam, etc, for $2,400 a year + $342 in electricity (although I recharge for free at work during the day, halving that number). Pay $700 up front to save $500 a year in gas.

Out of those options, I chose to keep my truck for the occasional road-trip and drive a new, decked out electric car. Considering there's a $7,500 tax deduction and electric cars are sales tax free in my state, those only sweetened the deal for me. Being that I charge the car via rooftop solar panels at home and at work, only adds to the deal.
2013-02-12 09:13:44 AM  
1 vote:

RandomRandom: If they were really concerned about range, there is absolutely no excuse for their fabricating power outages for both the Tesla and the Nissan electric. WTF? Funny because electric? I really don't get it. Could you imagine what would happen had they staged such a thing with a Ferrari? They'd never have another Ferrari on their show, ever.


I don't think most people understand what motivates these types of shows (and some journalists frankly) as well as what you laid out above. The threat of loss of access is enough for bias to come out and rear it's ugly head. It's the primary reason why those business reporting and stock tips shows are such garbage - CEO Joe Bloggs won't come out and be on your show if he knows that you're going to do a decent analytical look at his company and their actual P/E ratios and value. Instead he wants a few soft balls, the chance to get on TV for his ego and potentially an opportunity to shill his company's stock.

I look at TopGear the same exact way. They won't be truthful about any "reviews" they do, because doing so implies that as a vendor if you give them a bad car, you will get bad press. Instead they fall back on the entire "We're only an entertainment show!" because frankly they won't piss off the Ferrari's of the world because they like to drive them, but are more than happy to lie about a company like Tesla because they could care less if they ever got another one to drive.

I understand this, which is why I don't take any of this shiat seriously. However, between you, me and the wall - I think most people don't get it. Which is unfortunately the problem here - too many naive people in the world not understanding what a downright cynical shiat hole it really is and adjusting their actions acordingly.
2013-02-12 05:34:46 AM  
1 vote:
400 miles would be a little over a weeks driving for me. However the Model S costs what two of my TDI wagons cost, new (and a little more).

As for the EPA, they rate all passenger diesels with 4-cyl motors are 42 highway. I got 48 in it last month on an impromptu beer run to Georgia. (Why would I drive over 300 miles for beer? It's delicious, and I'm outside the distribution network. I've yet to strong arm the local yokels into carrying it, but I keep working on it..)

I'm not getting the low-40s combined I'm used to, but this is a brand new car with only 11,000 miles. My last "reliable" 45-56mpg TDI had 275,000 miles on it...

I want to see a Tesla in 250,000 miles.
2013-02-12 05:31:14 AM  
1 vote:

MrSteve007: There's your gut feeling, and then there are the facts: here's 2012 stats from the US Government - released a week ago . . .

"The average U.S. household spent $2,912 on gasoline in 2012, which amounts just less than 4 percent of their pre-tax income, according to research released Monday by the U.S. Energy Information Administration. That's the highest percentage in three decades." Link

Since average gas prices were down in 2012 vs. the peak of 2011, $242 a month in gas makes sense. It's also more than what I pay for an electric car lease and electricity to fuel it, combined.


Yeah, no. Your second link directly contradicts your first link. That's $243 per month in gas in 2012, versus the nonsensical $342 claimed in one specific month (May 2011) from your previous post. So your May 2011 figure is 41% higher than the yearlong average for 2012 from a more realistic source.

Here's the national average gas prices for 2011 and 2012 (courtesy of GasBuddy):

img542.imageshack.us
Note that 2012, overall, was MORE expensive for gas than 2011. If you go to  http://ycharts.com/indicators/gas_price you'll find you can get the average weekly price for every week of the year; do the math and you'll find 2012 averaged precisely US$3.679. For May 2011 to have been 41% higher the gas prices would have had to be US$5.187; they weren't anywhere near that. In actual fact, May 2011 averaged US$3.960, just 8% above the 2012 average.

So to account for that 41% difference, people would have had to increase their driving in May 2011 (despite the higher gas prices) by ~31% above the monthly average driven.

In other words, either the 2012 figures from the second citation are rubbish, or the first set of figures are rubbish. And given that the second set of figures are far closer to what I'd expect, you'll pardon me if I ignore the first set.

Ummm, yeah, I do. I'll just pay for electricity to fuel it, and for insurance. All service and parts are covered under warranty during the lease period. I won't be paying a cent more. At the end of the lease, I'll either give it back, or if the rates are reasonable, lease a new one. I could buy out the end of the lease, but considering the 2013 models are much improved, I consider this car a fun start into driving an electric car.

On the other hand, since my truck now has 150,000 miles, I know over the past year I've paid some $3,000 in service and maintenance (replacing oil 3 times, replacing trans fluid, ...


So now you're comparing a prehistoric truck to a brand new car. Yeah, you're not actually interested in a valid comparison, are you?

Your figures are nonsense and you know it.
2013-02-12 04:33:55 AM  
1 vote:
Before this thread I never realized that there were people who took Top Gear seriously.
2013-02-12 04:30:39 AM  
1 vote:

RandomRandom: He loves every contemporary car built in the UK, and even most of the older, complete crap.


You say that, but he constantly refers in disparaging terms to the "footballers'" "Cheshire" Bentley Continental and Range Rover Sport, assembled in Crewe and Solihull respectively and, at least in the case of the Conti, an almost universally lauded car.

I think the reality is that, while he mocks American cars and electric cars with a particular passion, Clarkson hates everything (with the possible exception of Margaret Thatcher). Top Gear isn't a car show, it's light entertainment presented by someone playing a right wing blowhard. It used to be a car show, but it used to have 17 viewers, six of whom couldn't work out how to retune for the snooker on BBC1.
2013-02-12 03:42:27 AM  
1 vote:

Klopfer: No, they didn't really lie.
http://transmission.blogs.topgear.com/2011/04/02/tesla-vs-top-gear-a nd y-wilman-on-our-current-legal-action/


One can lie without using words.

"We never said that the Tesla was completely immobilized as a result of the motor overheating. We said the car had "reduced power". This was true."
www.autoobserver.com

Hey Chums, this car is in reduced power mode while it cools down. Let's show all 4 of us having to push it over to a 110v plug be recharged for eleventy hours, to pretend what electric car drivers will end up have to do if they run out of juice. But the kicker is, we won't tell anyone that we're actually pretending that the car broke down.
2013-02-12 03:17:50 AM  
1 vote:

maggoo: So, yeah.  Top Gear really lied about the thing and Tesla got burned.


No, they didn't really lie.
http://transmission.blogs.topgear.com/2011/04/02/tesla-vs-top-gear-a nd y-wilman-on-our-current-legal-action/
2013-02-12 01:58:01 AM  
1 vote:

Mi-5: 1. It's an American car, so they have to trash it
2. It didn't have a lick of British technology, so they had to trash it
3. It wasn't a Ferrari, so they couldn't lick its balls
4. It wasn't a fuel guzzling supercar, so they had to trash it.

You will notice they always rig these tests to make certain cars win, or cars win in general. Like the car vs plain, car vs train, etc.

Entertaining show, but just recognize what they try to do.


#1 was enough for Clarkson to trash it.  A big part of his schtick is slamming the USA.  That and he hates the fact that electric cars are definitely, positively, absolutely going to replace gas cars, though certainly not in his lifetime.  52 year old men that look 67 don't tend to have a lot of years left.  (yes, he's only 52).

(Clarkson hates electric cars so much, that he even ignored your point two.  The chassis for the Tesla roadster was built by Lotus in the UK, though I think they were owned by the Malaysians by that time and are probably about to go completely bankrupt unless the Malaysian government bails them out... again)
2013-02-12 01:54:08 AM  
1 vote:

Aidan: ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.

My 2001 Neon is sitting in my driveway, and I admit that I'm dragging my heels on taking it to the junkyard. They were good solid little cars with more heft and less frou than my current car (an Accent). However I do love having a USB port. Just not sure it's worth everything I gave up...


If you wanna sell it, EIP.

/that said, y'know, you can get a cigarette lighter to USB thingamabob these days to charge stuff...
2013-02-12 01:40:21 AM  
1 vote:

Notabunny: I'd settle for a lifetime supply of A&W rootbeer floats and Papa burgers.


What is the dfference between a momma  burger and a papa burger? I know baby burgers are tiny
2013-02-12 01:35:23 AM  
1 vote:

mikaloyd: Tesla and lawsuits just seem to fit together.

Why the hate?

The state laws that prohibit out of state vehicle sales seem to clearly violate the commerce clause.  The only question is why no other car company has challenged them.  The only answer I can imagine is that the big car companies didn't want to anger their dealer base.

Tesla doesn't have independent dealers to take umbrage, they sell direct.  They've removed a completely unnecessary crowd of often unscrupulous middle men.  From where I sit, litigating against those laws would be doing god's work.
2013-02-12 01:33:47 AM  
1 vote:

ZeroCorpse: I'd just like to have a word with all of you about a particular word and its usage.

The word I keep seeing used incorrectly is  bias.

You are biased. You are not bias.
The reporter is biased toward the oil industry. The reporter is not bias toward the oil industry.
The media has a biased view. The media does not have a bias view.
You can have a bias. You can also  be biased.
When you have a bias, you are biased. When you have a bias, you are not bias.

That's all. May Gozer have mercy on your soul. You're welcome.


Someone had to say it!
2013-02-12 01:16:46 AM  
1 vote:

mikaloyd: Tesla: If it aint a good review, we sue


For Tesla's target market, range anxiety is a higher impediment to purchase than price. A NYT review which feeds range anxiety could harm sales.
2013-02-12 01:10:02 AM  
1 vote:

This text is now purple: mediablitz: Hmmm. Car manufacturers and dealers are doing everything they can to prevent Tesla from selling directly to consumers.

You'll find it's state laws that prevent that, not car manufacturers. GM was wildly successful selling directly to consumers in Brazil.


State laws written by car manufacturers and dealers. It wasn't lawmakers that thought, independently, "hey, let's force car sales to be this way!"
2013-02-12 01:08:35 AM  
1 vote:

I sound fat: Note to self: do not buy said car, they keep track of your comings and goings.


Nope.

Only of the cars they lend to journalists.

"Tesla data logging is only turned on with explicit written permission from customers, but after Top Gear BS, we always keep it on for media. "
http://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/301053361157988352
2013-02-12 01:01:31 AM  
1 vote:
Why does it have to be a Big Oil conspiracy? Why not just plain old laziness?

"Conventional wisdom is that the range sucks on electric cars, nobody really buys these things, it's 4:30pm and who's going to check anyway?"

You expect people who majored in journalism to suddenly sprout a work ethic?
2013-02-12 01:01:30 AM  
1 vote:
Meanwhile before Tesla sued the BBC

Rachel Konrad, a spokeswoman for Tesla told MediaGuardian.co.uk: "The image of them pushing it off the track was so searing," she said.
But she said she was generally happy with the overall tone of the review. "I thought it was a positive piece for Tesla by Top Gear standards. I personally like the show - it savages cars in a very entertaining way.
"My concern was with American viewers who were tuning in for the first time and might not understand the whole angle of the show. We wanted to make clear that range was not a concern over the entire time of the [Top Gear] test."
She said the company would not be pursuing the matter with the BBC. "We would love to have them drive it again whenever they want."


So there you go. Tesla tells whoppers just as good as the NYT
2013-02-12 12:58:18 AM  
1 vote:
Seems the journalist's article gives a miles covered / time allowing calculation of his average speed to be 81MPH along a route that is largely 55 to 65 MPH.

Problem? Yes, speed kills mileage, gas or electric. Take a gas powered car to the race track and it will be lucky to get a third of it's EPA mileage.

If he was driving it like he stole it then had the gall to complain about the range, he deserves to be strung up.
2013-02-12 12:55:37 AM  
1 vote:

mediablitz: Hmmm. Car manufacturers and dealers are doing everything they can to prevent Tesla from selling directly to consumers. Now a "reporter" trashes Tesla.

I'm shocked to find out someone would be sucking old business cock...


That's an old anti-trust law car manufacturers have to put up with.  They don't like the law, but they are accurately pointing out that Tesla isn't adhering to it.

Ford, GM, Toyota, etc. would LOVE to sell you cars direct, all over the country.  They aren't allowed to.  So they are justly asking why Tesla can set up showrooms that don't sell cars all over the country but you have to order from them directly.
2013-02-12 12:44:37 AM  
1 vote:
Hmmm. Car manufacturers and dealers are doing everything they can to prevent Tesla from selling directly to consumers. Now a "reporter" trashes Tesla.

I'm shocked to find out someone would be sucking old business cock...
2013-02-12 12:36:34 AM  
1 vote:

Happy Hours: Jeremy Clarkson is amused


That whole show should have subtitles saying "Not intended to be a factual statement"
2013-02-12 12:36:34 AM  
1 vote:

jake_lex: ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.

That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.

I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box, but you don't like hearing a car company admitting "We can see everything in that black box at any time."


Except they didn't say they could view it at any time or that they could activate it remotely.
2013-02-12 12:33:54 AM  
1 vote:

jake_lex: That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.


How many people pay for the privilege?

www.underconsideration.com
2013-02-12 12:33:11 AM  
1 vote:
I think it will actually be cool if they can prove this reporter wrong. Not only will it put him and his employer in a situation of having to prove their results, but if they don't, it will open up a full can of worms for media.......again. Maybe, Tesla, if they are right, will help to bring our news outlets to being held responsibe for all of their innacurate reporting. I doubt it, but, please, hopefully in sometime in the near future, news outlets will actually report, true news.

/doubtfull
//wishfull thinking
2013-02-12 12:32:46 AM  
1 vote:

ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.


Have you really never heard of OnStar?  This capability has been available in a large number of vehicles for over a decade.
2013-02-12 12:25:46 AM  
1 vote:
The one thing I noticed from that article was the journalist didn't fully charge the battery. He charged it to the point that it indicated he should> have enough juice to get to his destination. Of course the indicator was inaccurate and he ran out. The thing is he had already used the car in the cold and knew full well it would lose charge under these conditions. Instead of compensating for this however he just let the car fail the test and wrote his scathing review. It almost seemed like he was setting the car up to fail. Either that or the guy is not particularly intelligent.

Personally I don't think electric vehicles are well suited for road trips at present due to long charging times and manufacturers are making a mistake by positioning them as such. They are ideal for cheap commuter vehicles and runabouts however and if they played up that usage and lowered the prices I think they'd find a lot more customers.
2013-02-12 12:24:04 AM  
1 vote:

ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.


My 2001 Neon is sitting in my driveway, and I admit that I'm dragging my heels on taking it to the junkyard. They were good solid little cars with more heft and less frou than my current car (an Accent). However I do love having a USB port. Just not sure it's worth everything I gave up...
2013-02-12 12:19:46 AM  
1 vote:

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


Throw in the fact that there is an actual log of actual data, and motives dont matter. The data will indicate who is lying. No need to motive speculation.

Given that many others have run the same test which has given the same results that Tesla claims, AND they claim that the logs vindicate them. If the reporter's story was accurate/truthful, Tesla would simply say "99 out of 100 times it works, as shown by all these other testers, this was an outlier"

I think there is a 99.99999% chance that this reporter will be out of a job in less than a month.
2013-02-12 12:19:38 AM  
1 vote:

Happy Hours: Jeremy Clarkson is amused

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x315]


Or "Why Tesla datalogs the cars they lend to the press now."

One pack of vicious lies is all it takes.
2013-02-12 12:19:13 AM  
1 vote:

Nezorf: It will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
People mocking electrical cars
GPS data being released
Accusations of lying
The journalist ranks closing on Tesla motors so they don't get any more reviews as they "undermined' one of the their own



Actually the opposite would happen.  A reviewer lying undermines all other reviewers more than it undermines the company.  Reviewers will flock to Tesla even knowing their results are monitored it is win win for the reviewers.  Either you get a bunch of them showing that the Times reviewer (and Top Gear) were full of shiat and you maintain the integrity of the reviewing system.  Or you get a bunch of them showing that hey there may be something to these reports and you maintain the integrity of the reviewing system.

When looking at reviews integrity means a lot to the majority of people.  To people that love Tesla or hate Tesla they are going to listen to whatever biased review they want.

The same goes with the rest of the world, although the media seems to be fairly successful at selling opinion over fact now.
2013-02-12 12:11:11 AM  
1 vote:

Popcorn Johnny: Lsherm: I do have to say, I have a 2006 Infiniti G35 sedan and the EPA estimates were a little low.  It was listed at 17/22 and I get about 23 on the highway.  They've only dropped about .2 mpg over the years, but the car has 140,000 miles on it, so that's expected.  When the AWD kicks in it can really hurt the mileage so it's good it doesn't snow much around here.

What's strange is that it seems that every car I've had with a huge motor and low mileage estimates does better while fuel efficient vehicles do worse than the EPA numbers.


Depends. I've seen two or three different sets of EPA fuel ratings for my car, but the latest numbers from fueleconomy.gov are way lower than I usually get.* (Hell, they're barely higher than my my brother used to get out of his 1990 F-150.)

*I usually see high 20s around town and commuting to work. (Rush hour sucks.) If I drive over to WI and put high-octane, no-ethanol gas in the tank (all the gas here is E10), I can get 35+ over long distances.

My favorite story about mileage is a Saturn I had in college. I'd get low 30s around town, 40+ on the freeway. (Personal best was 42, on a trip where I also... shall we say... drove very fast, through much of Pennsylvania.)

But the first few months I had it, I just drove to and from school. (I shouldn't have - I should have been walking, biking, or taking a bus, but I was geeked about having a car.) It was about two miles each way, which gave the engine just enough time to remember it was an engine, and maybe consider warming up, before I shut it off.

My second tank of gas lasted me the entire month of February. Average mileage? About 18mpg.
2013-02-12 12:09:03 AM  
1 vote:

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


NYT has practiced poor journalism for about 2 decades now. This view was only reinforced when my father-in-law shared the same opinion, but what does he know? He only graduated Summa cum laude from the NYU School of Journalism.
2013-02-12 12:03:43 AM  
1 vote:
I read the NYT article. What I don't get is why the author didn't just stop at a conventional electric car charging station. Those are all over the place (well, compared to Tesla's own ever few hundred miles). I assume the Tesla also has an adapter for the standard electric car chargers.
2013-02-11 11:58:40 PM  
1 vote:

notmtwain: I'm betting that the NY Times version of events is closest to the truth.

The article didn't make it all that bad for them-- just part of the learning curve with a new technology.

Elon seems determined to turn it into tons of free negative advertising.  He cannot win.


Being "close" doesn't count.  Even if NY Times was mostly right - they will still come out looking bad and biased.  Elon cannot lose here.
2013-02-11 11:57:21 PM  
1 vote:
www.hongkiat.com
To be continued...
2013-02-11 11:56:35 PM  
1 vote:

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: God, RTFA. Tesla puts a data logger on THE CARS THEY LEND TO JOURNALISTS.


No one reads the articles anymore. It's easier to just pop straight into the thread and froth right away.
2013-02-11 11:55:21 PM  
1 vote:

lack of warmth: What! You don't say.  A media member has once again took a bias view and tweeked the test to get the desired results.


Probably trying out for a gig on Top Gear.  I heard they pulled a similar stunt.
2013-02-11 11:16:14 PM  
1 vote:

Popcorn Johnny: You know how the EPA determines highway fuel economy?  They run the car on a dynamometer using a program that lasts for 12.5 minutes at an average speed of 48mph.


The whole boring detail can be found here.

I do have to say, I have a 2006 Infiniti G35 sedan and the EPA estimates were a little low.  It was listed at 17/22 and I get about 23 on the highway.  They've only dropped about .2 mpg over the years, but the car has 140,000 miles on it, so that's expected.  When the AWD kicks in it can really hurt the mileage so it's good it doesn't snow much around here.
2013-02-11 11:09:43 PM  
1 vote:

ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.


That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.

I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box, but you don't like hearing a car company admitting "We can see everything in that black box at any time."
2013-02-11 11:03:08 PM  
1 vote:
You know how the EPA determines highway fuel economy?  They run the car on a dynamometer using a program that lasts for 12.5 minutes at an average speed of 48mph.
2013-02-11 10:23:11 PM  
1 vote:
ecx.images-amazon.com

Oil companies influencing the media? Say it isn't so.
/Great read
2013-02-11 10:07:44 PM  
1 vote:
I'm waiting to hear some more facts come out before pronouncing one or the other party guilty here.  It's a very strange thing, this.
 
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