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(TreeHugger)   NYT Reporter: "The new Tesla sedan doesn't come close to stated range in cold conditions. It had to be towed home." Tesla CEO: "Guess what? Our car logged your GPS & battery data, and it says you're full of shiat." Watt now?   (treehugger.com) divider line 272
    More: Plug, NYT, Model S, Elon Musk, Motor Trend  
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22674 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Feb 2013 at 11:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-12 01:10:02 AM

This text is now purple: mediablitz: Hmmm. Car manufacturers and dealers are doing everything they can to prevent Tesla from selling directly to consumers.

You'll find it's state laws that prevent that, not car manufacturers. GM was wildly successful selling directly to consumers in Brazil.


State laws written by car manufacturers and dealers. It wasn't lawmakers that thought, independently, "hey, let's force car sales to be this way!"
 
2013-02-12 01:13:49 AM
I'd just like to have a word with all of you about a particular word and its usage.

The word I keep seeing used incorrectly is  bias.

You are biased. You are not bias.
The reporter is biased toward the oil industry. The reporter is not bias toward the oil industry.
The media has a biased view. The media does not have a bias view.
You can have a bias. You can also  be biased.
When you have a bias, you are biased. When you have a bias, you are not bias.

That's all. May Gozer have mercy on your soul. You're welcome.
 
2013-02-12 01:16:46 AM

mikaloyd: Tesla: If it aint a good review, we sue


For Tesla's target market, range anxiety is a higher impediment to purchase than price. A NYT review which feeds range anxiety could harm sales.
 
2013-02-12 01:17:30 AM
Times, Times, everywhere the Times,
Reviewing all the EVs, changing people's minds.
"Drive here, don't drive here!"
Didn't you read the Times?
 
2013-02-12 01:17:42 AM

ZeroCorpse: I'd just like to have a word with all of you about a particular word and its usage.

The word I keep seeing used incorrectly is  bias.

You are biased. You are not bias.
The reporter is biased toward the oil industry. The reporter is not bias toward the oil industry.
The media has a biased view. The media does not have a bias view.
You can have a bias. You can also  be biased.
When you have a bias, you are biased. When you have a bias, you are not bias.

That's all. May Gozer have mercy on your soul. You're welcome.


What kind of affect are you hoping to have with such a post?
 
2013-02-12 01:18:51 AM

firefly212: Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?

[www.pbs.org image 440x250]

I dunno whether you're late to the NYT having ethics problem party, or late to the apres party of libs being pissed about it, but either way, you're late.


You realize that's a picture of a headline from the Washington Post, right?  You can tell from the pixels . . . I mean, the font.  Plus the "Washington Post Staff Writer" under the byline.
 
2013-02-12 01:24:04 AM

Notabunny: mikaloyd: Tesla: If it aint a good review, we sue

For Tesla's target market, range anxiety is a higher impediment to purchase than price. A NYT review which feeds range anxiety could harm sales.


I think restaurants should sue for poor reviews as well. Because it isnt the price of the meal so much as if the food stinks in the minds of the well-to-do.
 
2013-02-12 01:25:24 AM

mediablitz: State laws written by car manufacturers and dealers

.

As I understand it, these state laws are designed to protect dealers, not car manufacturers  Traditionally, there have been lots of car dealers and their friends/ families in local state legislatures.

I've always wondered why no car manufacturer has challenged these laws under the interstate commerce clause of the constitution.  If any state tries to prohibit Tesla from selling direct to the customer, Tesla may be the test case.
 
2013-02-12 01:28:02 AM

RandomRandom: I've always wondered why no car manufacturer has challenged these laws under the interstate commerce clause of the constitution. If any state tries to prohibit Tesla from selling direct to the customer, Tesla may be the test case.


Tesla and lawsuits just seem to fit together.
 
2013-02-12 01:28:25 AM

mikaloyd: Notabunny: mikaloyd: Tesla: If it aint a good review, we sue

For Tesla's target market, range anxiety is a higher impediment to purchase than price. A NYT review which feeds range anxiety could harm sales.

I think restaurants should sue for poor reviews as well. Because it isnt the price of the meal so much as if the food stinks in the minds of the well-to-do.


And if the milage claim in the NYT article is documented to be untrue?
 
2013-02-12 01:30:23 AM

skazzytl: 1. Tesla CEO secretly pays a reviewer to write a bad review (perhaps through an intermediary that has some affiliation with big oil).
2. Reviewer then writes the bad review.
3. Tesla CEO claims to have car logs proving the reviewer faked the review.
4. Scandal arises as reviewer is shown to have lied.
5. Tesla gets lots of positive press and publicity about how their car is able to drive great, and how the media and big oil is out to get them through any means possible in order to shut down this great new technology.
6. Profit.


1. Tesla's logs prove that they recorded the towing as if it was driving.
2. Reporter produces paperwork regarding having to call someone.
3. The tow guy corroborates the reporter's story.
4. Bankrupty.
 
2013-02-12 01:30:51 AM

I sound fat: Note to self:  do not buy said car, they keep track of your comings and goings.


UGH! This thread is so full of stupid, it actually physically hurts.

1)ALL cars keep logs. These logs include various things from engine and wheel speed to error codes thrown during operation to any interaction with any system in the car (hitting the brakes, turning on the wipers, ATC/TCS having to step in, etc.), and in some cases directional heading if there is a compass built in or GPS coordinates if there is a GPS unit (as there might be with Tesla), as well as additional car-specific features (battery charging/consumption, AWD state, etc).
2)The only system that lets cars "phone home" with the contents of the log is OnStar. That's it. Tesla does not have a cell radio in their black box.
3)The tracking  CAN be turned on with the owners permission by Tesla. The owner has to sign a consent form when picking up the car. This is much like when software companies ask you to submit an anonymous crash report after a system crash. This data is not sent automatically, but rather is pulled from the logs when the car comes in for service or is otherwise returned to Tesla.
4)Journalists have logging turned on by default. I assume they are simply required to sign a consent as a prerequisite to getting a review loaner. This journalist probably signed the review loan paperwork without reading it. When he  returned the car, Tesla pulled his logs. When the review went up, Tesla reviewed the logs they had pulled  MANUALLY WHILE THE CAR WAS IN THEIR HANDS.
5)
 NO ONEis monitoring your coming and going. If they are, you either consented to it, you have a warrant out, or someone is playing fast and loose with the law and is in deep shiat if you find out and press charges.
 
2013-02-12 01:31:00 AM

Notabunny: mikaloyd: Notabunny: mikaloyd: Tesla: If it aint a good review, we sue

For Tesla's target market, range anxiety is a higher impediment to purchase than price. A NYT review which feeds range anxiety could harm sales.

I think restaurants should sue for poor reviews as well. Because it isnt the price of the meal so much as if the food stinks in the minds of the well-to-do.

And if the milage claim in the NYT article is documented to be untrue?


Sue more restaurants?
 
2013-02-12 01:31:17 AM
Oh man if this is true, that reporter is boned.  I bet he's having a wonderful evening right now.

Let's see the data.
 
2013-02-12 01:32:05 AM

Jarhead_h: TomD9938: Assuming an EVs heat is operating at full blast (max temp / max fan speed) what does that do to the theoretical 400 mile range? Five percent less? Fifty percent?

It's not just the heater running.  Cold zaps batteries, and since batteries have always been the Achilles heel of the electric car, that's kinda info that might be good to know.

Nissan Leaf has the same problem - not enough range for a long commute, quick charge often and drastically reduce the life of the batteries.

Charging time is what killed the Baker electric which was actually quite popular with women in NYC circa 1895.  Baker at least made the batteries easy and cheap to rebuild.


According to what I've found online, Baker Electrics was founded in 1899, and they produced cars until 1914. You're off by a bit.

As for what killed them, it seems to have been a combination of their later models being very expensive for the time ($4,000 in 1908! To compare, you could get a VW Beetle in the 1960s for around $2,000!) and the fact that they merged with Rauch & Lang in response to Detroit Electric outselling them. They concentrated on commercial vehicles after this, and then R&L was bought out by Stevens-Duryea in 1920, which itself had financial problems and ended up being sold to Ray Owen (of Owen Magnetic) in 1923 to produce cars under the R&L name. This failed by 1924 (they sold what they had already built until 1927), and they fell back to building coaches for other companies.

So it wasn't so much the recharge time that killed Baker Electrics; It was the fact that in the early 1900s there were a lot of players on the field and the ones who delivered an affordable vehicle were the ones who made it. The others were bought out (or pushed out) until they died, or ended up part of the big boys.

The average person-- Heck, even the rich person-- couldn't afford a $4,000 car in 1908.
 
2013-02-12 01:32:59 AM

Lsherm: ameeriklane: I read the NYT article. What I don't get is why the author didn't just stop at a conventional electric car charging station. Those are all over the place (well, compared to Tesla's own ever few hundred miles). I assume the Tesla also has an adapter for the standard electric car chargers.

Maybe they don't?  He said the tow truck had to attach a special Tesla adapter to charge the car on the side of the road.


Yes, the Model S ships with an adapter that lets you use a standard J1772 charger (same standard the Leaf and Volt use). You can charge a Model S at any Blink or Chargepoint station, among others.
 
2013-02-12 01:33:47 AM

ZeroCorpse: I'd just like to have a word with all of you about a particular word and its usage.

The word I keep seeing used incorrectly is  bias.

You are biased. You are not bias.
The reporter is biased toward the oil industry. The reporter is not bias toward the oil industry.
The media has a biased view. The media does not have a bias view.
You can have a bias. You can also  be biased.
When you have a bias, you are biased. When you have a bias, you are not bias.

That's all. May Gozer have mercy on your soul. You're welcome.


Someone had to say it!
 
2013-02-12 01:34:53 AM

Happy Hours: Jeremy Clarkson is amused

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x315]


Didn't James May review a Tesla in the last series and conclude that it was, in fact, an amazingly awesome vehicle (and quicker than a 1920's Bentley, to boot)?

/Seriously bonkers to look at
//Would drive one in a heartbeat...
///...if it wasn't so bloody expensive
 
2013-02-12 01:34:56 AM

imgod2u: ZeroCorpse: I'd just like to have a word with all of you about a particular word and its usage.

The word I keep seeing used incorrectly is  bias.

You are biased. You are not bias.
The reporter is biased toward the oil industry. The reporter is not bias toward the oil industry.
The media has a biased view. The media does not have a bias view.
You can have a bias. You can also  be biased.
When you have a bias, you are biased. When you have a bias, you are not bias.

That's all. May Gozer have mercy on your soul. You're welcome.

What kind of affect are you hoping to have with such a post?


I will hope and assume you did that on purpose just to get a laugh.

/effect.
 
2013-02-12 01:35:23 AM

mikaloyd: Tesla and lawsuits just seem to fit together.

Why the hate?

The state laws that prohibit out of state vehicle sales seem to clearly violate the commerce clause.  The only question is why no other car company has challenged them.  The only answer I can imagine is that the big car companies didn't want to anger their dealer base.

Tesla doesn't have independent dealers to take umbrage, they sell direct.  They've removed a completely unnecessary crowd of often unscrupulous middle men.  From where I sit, litigating against those laws would be doing god's work.
 
2013-02-12 01:36:31 AM

ZeroCorpse: I'd just like to have a word with all of you about a particular word and its usage.

The word I keep seeing used incorrectly is  bias.

You are biased. You are not bias.
The reporter is biased toward the oil industry. The reporter is not bias toward the oil industry.
The media has a biased view. The media does not have a bias view.
You can have a bias. You can also  be biased.
When you have a bias, you are biased. When you have a bias, you are not bias.

That's all. May Gozer have mercy on your soul. You're welcome.


Teslas come stock with radials
 
2013-02-12 01:37:32 AM

mikaloyd: Notabunny: mikaloyd: Notabunny: mikaloyd: Tesla: If it aint a good review, we sue

For Tesla's target market, range anxiety is a higher impediment to purchase than price. A NYT review which feeds range anxiety could harm sales.

I think restaurants should sue for poor reviews as well. Because it isnt the price of the meal so much as if the food stinks in the minds of the well-to-do.

And if the milage claim in the NYT article is documented to be untrue?

Sue more restaurants?


I'd settle for a lifetime supply of A&W rootbeer floats and Papa burgers.
 
2013-02-12 01:38:16 AM

RandomRandom: mikaloyd: Tesla and lawsuits just seem to fit together.
Why the hate?


A day in court is worth two in  hell.
 
2013-02-12 01:40:05 AM
Few sources are less worthy of respect than the New York Times, but if there's an integrity dispute between the Times and Elon Musk -- a man who has lied repeatedly to both his investors and his customers and built much of his company on a hand-out (thinly disguised as a loan) from the DoE -- I'm gonna go with the NYT.
 
2013-02-12 01:40:21 AM

Notabunny: I'd settle for a lifetime supply of A&W rootbeer floats and Papa burgers.


What is the dfference between a momma  burger and a papa burger? I know baby burgers are tiny
 
2013-02-12 01:40:53 AM
There are a quite a few people, it seems, that don't want the EV to succeed.
 
2013-02-12 01:41:21 AM
mikaloyd: A day in court is worth two in  hell.

Ok.... So if a company uses the courts to strike down a raft of unconstitutional, anti-consumer laws, why is that not a good thing?

Because court = bad? ?
 
2013-02-12 01:43:40 AM

mikaloyd: Notabunny: I'd settle for a lifetime supply of A&W rootbeer floats and Papa burgers.

What is the dfference between a momma  burger and a papa burger? I know baby burgers are tiny


I think the momma burger has a single patty and the papa is a double. I'm not sure, though. I've always ordered what I guess to be the embiggened one because American.
 
2013-02-12 01:44:57 AM

RandomRandom: mikaloyd: A day in court is worth two in  hell.

Ok.... So if a company uses the courts to strike down a raft of unconstitutional, anti-consumer laws, why is that not a good thing?

Because court = bad? ?


You are so far only hoping that is the new kind of lawsuit Tesla plans rather than examining the old ones Tesla has brought. Do ambulance chasers suddenly become free lawyers working for the people? do their clientèle? My gut instinct says no.
 
2013-02-12 01:45:04 AM

Popcorn Johnny: You know how the EPA determines highway fuel economy?  They run the car on a dynamometer using a program that lasts for 12.5 minutes at an average speed of 48mph.


As unreal as that seems, doing the testing this way is far better than actually driving on the highway.  Yes, the number may not accurately reflect what one might get in real life, but it's useful for comparisons with other cars. If car A has 45 mpg highway and car B has 35 mpg highway, you can pretty much be sure that A will get better mileage than B in highway driving conditions (unless B is tuned to drive more efficiently at 65mph and A's efficiency drops off past 50mph).
 
2013-02-12 01:46:33 AM

jake_lex: ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.

That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.

I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box, but you don't like hearing a car company admitting "We can see everything in that black box at any time."


Insurance companies and the NTHSA (or whatever is the acronym) like it too because it gives very important information at time of accident.
 
2013-02-12 01:47:50 AM
From the comments:  As Hanlon said: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
 
2013-02-12 01:49:37 AM
My guess is that the NYT journalist wasn't completely honest about his route or style of driving.  His own article suggests his average speed may have been 20 mph over the speed limit.  Most of his dishonesty will probably be through omission.  His defense will be something like, I never said I didn't drive it like I stole it.  My article never said I didn't do a dozen 0-60 4.x second jackrabbit starts.

Now if the GPS logs really describe a significant undocumented detour, I hope Tesla has the brains to quickly hire some private investigators to acquire video tapes from convenience stores and traffic cameras along the detour route.  Otherwise, the reporter will just say Tesla is lying and it will be a big he said / they said.

If the reporter denies the detour, then Tesla provides independent proof, it's reporter firing time.
 
2013-02-12 01:51:51 AM

Happy Hours: Jeremy Clarkson is amused

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x315]


Top Gear definitely rigged that test to make the Tesla look bad for several reasons:

1.  It's an American car, so they have to trash it
2.  It didn't have a lick of British technology, so they had to trash it
3.  It wasn't a Ferrari, so they couldn't lick its balls
4.  It wasn't a fuel guzzling supercar, so they had to trash it.

You will notice they always rig these tests to make certain cars win, or cars win in general.  Like the car vs plain, car vs train, etc.

Entertaining show, but just recognize what they try to do.
 
2013-02-12 01:54:08 AM

Aidan: ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.

My 2001 Neon is sitting in my driveway, and I admit that I'm dragging my heels on taking it to the junkyard. They were good solid little cars with more heft and less frou than my current car (an Accent). However I do love having a USB port. Just not sure it's worth everything I gave up...


If you wanna sell it, EIP.

/that said, y'know, you can get a cigarette lighter to USB thingamabob these days to charge stuff...
 
2013-02-12 01:57:47 AM

soupbone: I bet Edison's sedan can electrify its potential customers...and elephants.


Yeah, that was pretty messed up. Edison was a real asshole. In the end, Tesla was right anyway.
 
2013-02-12 01:58:01 AM

Mi-5: 1. It's an American car, so they have to trash it
2. It didn't have a lick of British technology, so they had to trash it
3. It wasn't a Ferrari, so they couldn't lick its balls
4. It wasn't a fuel guzzling supercar, so they had to trash it.

You will notice they always rig these tests to make certain cars win, or cars win in general. Like the car vs plain, car vs train, etc.

Entertaining show, but just recognize what they try to do.


#1 was enough for Clarkson to trash it.  A big part of his schtick is slamming the USA.  That and he hates the fact that electric cars are definitely, positively, absolutely going to replace gas cars, though certainly not in his lifetime.  52 year old men that look 67 don't tend to have a lot of years left.  (yes, he's only 52).

(Clarkson hates electric cars so much, that he even ignored your point two.  The chassis for the Tesla roadster was built by Lotus in the UK, though I think they were owned by the Malaysians by that time and are probably about to go completely bankrupt unless the Malaysian government bails them out... again)
 
2013-02-12 02:05:27 AM

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


It's not unheard of for NYT reporters to just make up lies for the lulz, or because they're too lazy to do real journalism.  Jayson Blair much?
 
2013-02-12 02:06:20 AM

ZeroCorpse: imgod2u: ZeroCorpse: I'd just like to have a word with all of you about a particular word and its usage.

The word I keep seeing used incorrectly is  bias.

You are biased. You are not bias.
The reporter is biased toward the oil industry. The reporter is not bias toward the oil industry.
The media has a biased view. The media does not have a bias view.
You can have a bias. You can also  be biased.
When you have a bias, you are biased. When you have a bias, you are not bias.

That's all. May Gozer have mercy on your soul. You're welcome.

What kind of affect are you hoping to have with such a post?

I will hope and assume you did that on purpose just to get a laugh.

/effect.


He's hoping to effect the proper usage of bias/biased.
 
2013-02-12 02:10:47 AM

Mi-5: Happy Hours: Jeremy Clarkson is amused

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x315]

Top Gear definitely rigged that test to make the Tesla look bad for several reasons:

1.  It's an American car, so they have to trash it
2.  It didn't have a lick of British technology, so they had to trash it
3.  It wasn't a Ferrari, so they couldn't lick its balls
4.  It wasn't a fuel guzzling supercar, so they had to trash it.

You will notice they always rig these tests to make certain cars win, or cars win in general.  Like the car vs plain, car vs train, etc.

Entertaining show, but just recognize what they try to do.


Meanwhile, James May adored the Tesla he drove in Florida (in the last series?).
 
2013-02-12 02:11:33 AM

Mi-5: Happy Hours: Jeremy Clarkson is amused

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x315]

Top Gear definitely rigged that test to make the Tesla look bad for several reasons:

1.  It's an American car, so they have to trash it
2.  It didn't have a lick of British technology, so they had to trash it
3.  It wasn't a Ferrari, so they couldn't lick its balls
4.  It wasn't a fuel guzzling supercar, so they had to trash it.

You will notice they always rig these tests to make certain cars win, or cars win in general.  Like the car vs plain, car vs train, etc.

Entertaining show, but just recognize what they try to do.


I liked the one where they raced from their studio to London city airport. James May took a car, Richard Hammond bought himself a new road bike, Jeremy Clarkson took a boat down the Thames, and they put the Stig on public transport.

The car lost by a hilariously huge margin. Richard Hammond, riding a bike, won rather easily, followed by Clarkson and the boat.

Actually, they usually rig them so that the car barely loses.
 
2013-02-12 02:13:47 AM
Actually, it might not have been their studio, it was just some point on the western outskirts of London, with City Airport being on the eastern outskirts.
 
2013-02-12 02:24:36 AM

Notabunny: harpagon: Where do you people get the remote logging activation? I didn't found the reference in the article.

Since it was loaned to a journalist, you would think it would have been easier to activate the logging before loaning the car and read the logs on the car return.

Or does the Tesla car has On-Star like cell-phone communications capability?

Take a look at the 3 tweets at the top of the article


You mean the ones that make no mention whatsoever of remote activation and collection ability?  What exactly am I looking for there?
 
2013-02-12 02:25:51 AM

GranoblasticMan: ZeroCorpse: imgod2u: ZeroCorpse: I'd just like to have a word with all of you about a particular word and its usage.

The word I keep seeing used incorrectly is  bias.

You are biased. You are not bias.
The reporter is biased toward the oil industry. The reporter is not bias toward the oil industry.
The media has a biased view. The media does not have a bias view.
You can have a bias. You can also  be biased.
When you have a bias, you are biased. When you have a bias, you are not bias.

That's all. May Gozer have mercy on your soul. You're welcome.

What kind of affect are you hoping to have with such a post?

I will hope and assume you did that on purpose just to get a laugh.

/effect.

He's hoping to effect the proper usage of bias/biased.


Your not helping.
 
2013-02-12 02:25:57 AM

jake_lex: That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla. They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.

I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box, but you don't like hearing a car company admitting "We can see everything in that black box at any time."




Reading comprehension fail. Tesla's cars only log their info if their owners explicitly set them to do so, which the owner needs to supply a password to turn it on. With that reporter, the car owner was Tesla, and they intentionally set up the car specifically to log the test.

Easy with the tinfoil hat.
 
2013-02-12 02:27:05 AM

maram500: Didn't James May review a Tesla in the last series and conclude that it was, in fact, an amazingly awesome vehicle (and quicker than a 1920's Bentley, to boot)?


I'm not sure. I might be a whole series behind...I'll have to check Netflix...or look for it on the internet
 
2013-02-12 02:27:19 AM

Lusiphur: I sound fat: Note to self:  do not buy said car, they keep track of your comings and goings.

UGH! This thread is so full of stupid, it actually physically hurts.

1)ALL cars keep logs.


Ugh, this statement is so full of stupid I hope the hurt you're feeling is for your own stupidity.

At the very least, you should realize there are plenty of vehicles still on the road the without any sort of computer.
 
2013-02-12 02:29:55 AM

debug: You mean the ones that make no mention whatsoever of remote activation and collection ability? What exactly am I looking for there?


Posted this earlier in the thread.

"Tesla data logging is only turned on with explicit written permission from customers, but after Top Gear BS, we always keep it on for media. "
http://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/301053361157988352
 
2013-02-12 02:32:07 AM

mikaloyd: ZeroCorpse: I'd just like to have a word with all of you about a particular word and its usage.

The word I keep seeing used incorrectly is  bias.

You are biased. You are not bias.
The reporter is biased toward the oil industry. The reporter is not bias toward the oil industry.
The media has a biased view. The media does not have a bias view.
You can have a bias. You can also  be biased.
When you have a bias, you are biased. When you have a bias, you are not bias.

That's all. May Gozer have mercy on your soul. You're welcome.

Teslas come stock with radials


That's funny. I was thinking the same thing. To quote another farker in this thread, "Somebody had to say it."
 
2013-02-12 02:34:25 AM
RandomRandom: "That and he hates the fact that electric cars are definitely, positively, absolutely going to replace gas cars, though certainly not in his lifetime."


Sadly, you're probably right. Not because they should -- we're farking bonkers to live in a place with distances as great as ours and be fighting so hard for a REDUCTION in energy density -- but because we can all feel more smug and less guilty when the smokestacks are somewhere beyond city limits...as far away from our consciences as the landfills that will receive hundreds of millions of expired batteries. Progress.
 
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