If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(TreeHugger)   NYT Reporter: "The new Tesla sedan doesn't come close to stated range in cold conditions. It had to be towed home." Tesla CEO: "Guess what? Our car logged your GPS & battery data, and it says you're full of shiat." Watt now?   (treehugger.com) divider line 272
    More: Plug, NYT, Model S, Elon Musk, Motor Trend  
•       •       •

22674 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Feb 2013 at 11:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



272 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-02-12 12:22:59 AM

ISO15693: Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?

Throw in the fact that there is an actual log of actual data, and motives dont matter. The data will indicate who is lying. No need to motive speculation.

Given that many others have run the same test which has given the same results that Tesla claims, AND they claim that the logs vindicate them. If the reporter's story was accurate/truthful, Tesla would simply say "99 out of 100 times it works, as shown by all these other testers, this was an outlier"

I think there is a 99.99999% chance that this reporter will be out of a job in less than a month.


Screw you, buddy. If the facts don't fit my preconceived views, I will regard them as lies, and further proof of the evil (LEFT/RIGHT)* conspiracy!


* circle applicable political spectrum
 
2013-02-12 12:23:32 AM

ilikeracecars: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: God, RTFA. Tesla puts a data logger on THE CARS THEY LEND TO JOURNALISTS.

No, according to tweets, they only turn it on when they lend it to journalists.


So, having telemetry gear sounds pretty good when you'd prefer someone in the factory figuring out what the problem is and not Clem, the shadetree mechanic.
 
2013-02-12 12:23:51 AM
images4.wikia.nocookie.net
Drats! Foiled again!.
 
2013-02-12 12:24:04 AM

ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.


My 2001 Neon is sitting in my driveway, and I admit that I'm dragging my heels on taking it to the junkyard. They were good solid little cars with more heft and less frou than my current car (an Accent). However I do love having a USB port. Just not sure it's worth everything I gave up...
 
2013-02-12 12:24:47 AM

doctor_sbaits0: Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?

There are big oil shills on all sides of the political spectrum.


Corrupt politicians, corrupt journalists, corrupt business....it's just too much. Thank goodness I get the real deal on Fark.
 
2013-02-12 12:25:46 AM
The one thing I noticed from that article was the journalist didn't fully charge the battery. He charged it to the point that it indicated he should> have enough juice to get to his destination. Of course the indicator was inaccurate and he ran out. The thing is he had already used the car in the cold and knew full well it would lose charge under these conditions. Instead of compensating for this however he just let the car fail the test and wrote his scathing review. It almost seemed like he was setting the car up to fail. Either that or the guy is not particularly intelligent.

Personally I don't think electric vehicles are well suited for road trips at present due to long charging times and manufacturers are making a mistake by positioning them as such. They are ideal for cheap commuter vehicles and runabouts however and if they played up that usage and lowered the prices I think they'd find a lot more customers.
 
2013-02-12 12:25:59 AM

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?

www.pbs.org


I dunno whether you're late to the NYT having ethics problem party, or late to the apres party of libs being pissed about it, but either way, you're late.
 
2013-02-12 12:28:48 AM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: God, RTFA. Tesla puts a data logger on THE CARS THEY LEND TO JOURNALISTS.


Or so a journalist claims.
 
2013-02-12 12:29:17 AM

TomD9938: Assuming an EVs heat is operating at full blast (max temp / max fan speed) what does that do to the theoretical 400 mile range? Five percent less? Fifty percent?


It's not just the heater running.  Cold zaps batteries, and since batteries have always been the Achilles heel of the electric car, that's kinda info that might be good to know.

Nissan Leaf has the same problem - not enough range for a long commute, quick charge often and drastically reduce the life of the batteries.

Charging time is what killed the Baker electric which was actually quite popular with women in NYC circa 1895.  Baker at least made the batteries easy and cheap to rebuild.

Ever watched the Tesla roadster corner hard?  The body roll is atrocious, especially when you compare it to the Lotus that uses the same chassis.  Why?  The batteries throw off the weight distribution.


Batteries are getting better all the time, but they still aren't there yet.  This has been the most exciting that I've seen lately:
Shorai Light Weight Lithium Iron Motorcycle Batteries http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GD4QtZL5M4
 
2013-02-12 12:29:30 AM
Unlock the g'damn car Hal!


sustainableheritage.princes-regeneration.org
 
2013-02-12 12:31:48 AM

Lsherm: Because People in power are Stupid: Looking over his article titles he seems to shill for big oil.

I read his article and it seems it should be pretty easy to cross check his multiple phone calls to Tesla, verify the story with the tow truck driver, and check (from Tesla) that the car went where he said it did.


So we should trust a hack, a tow truck driver, and a car salesman?
 
2013-02-12 12:32:46 AM

ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.


Have you really never heard of OnStar?  This capability has been available in a large number of vehicles for over a decade.
 
2013-02-12 12:33:11 AM
I think it will actually be cool if they can prove this reporter wrong. Not only will it put him and his employer in a situation of having to prove their results, but if they don't, it will open up a full can of worms for media.......again. Maybe, Tesla, if they are right, will help to bring our news outlets to being held responsibe for all of their innacurate reporting. I doubt it, but, please, hopefully in sometime in the near future, news outlets will actually report, true news.

/doubtfull
//wishfull thinking
 
2013-02-12 12:33:54 AM

jake_lex: That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.


How many people pay for the privilege?

www.underconsideration.com
 
2013-02-12 12:35:38 AM

jtown: ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.

Have you really never heard of OnStar?  This capability has been available in a large number of vehicles for over a decade.


That's why my cell phone is a carrier pigeon.
 
2013-02-12 12:36:34 AM

jake_lex: ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.

That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.

I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box, but you don't like hearing a car company admitting "We can see everything in that black box at any time."


Except they didn't say they could view it at any time or that they could activate it remotely.
 
2013-02-12 12:36:34 AM

Happy Hours: Jeremy Clarkson is amused


That whole show should have subtitles saying "Not intended to be a factual statement"
 
2013-02-12 12:36:55 AM

jake_lex: ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.

That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.

I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box, but you don't like hearing a car company admitting "We can see everything in that black box at any time."


Where did you get the impression that the GPS can be accessed remotely?
 
2013-02-12 12:37:55 AM
"You're a bunch of dorky nerd losers."

"Not so fast!  I will prove you wrong using my system logs."
 
2013-02-12 12:38:58 AM

Oldiron_79: The EPA doesnt actually test vehicles these days they just apply a math formula based on weight and hp. Anyways the formula consistantly over estimates mileage for small vehicles andunderestimates mileage for large vehicles because it doesnt account for the fact that volume increases by the cube area increases by the square, so it does not take aerodynamics in to account at all.


According to this government website, they test about 10% of the car models themselves and take the auto companies' word for it on the rest.

Got a citation on your version? Not calling you a liar, I'd seriously like to know more about this.
 
2013-02-12 12:44:37 AM
Hmmm. Car manufacturers and dealers are doing everything they can to prevent Tesla from selling directly to consumers. Now a "reporter" trashes Tesla.

I'm shocked to find out someone would be sucking old business cock...
 
2013-02-12 12:45:39 AM
Elon Musk loves to come out and be argumentative but at some point you have to wonder if there is a giant media conspiracy against Tesla (especially a lean leaning paper like the NYT which ought to love electric cars) or, I dunno, maybe Tesla exaggerated a little bit?
 
2013-02-12 12:45:57 AM
I wonder if Tesla will sue the NYT and lose like it did the BBC?


In a statement following today's ruling, the
 
2013-02-12 12:46:12 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Lsherm: Because People in power are Stupid: Looking over his article titles he seems to shill for big oil.

I read his article and it seems it should be pretty easy to cross check his multiple phone calls to Tesla, verify the story with the tow truck driver, and check (from Tesla) that the car went where he said it did.

So we should trust a hack, a tow truck driver, and a car salesman?


If all their stories agree, then sure.
 
2013-02-12 12:46:36 AM
Haven't people learned to respect the power of Tesla?
 
2013-02-12 12:46:46 AM
This reminds me of one of the middle plots from Cloud Atlas, and which I'm sure I've also seen in other TV shows and movies.

1. Tesla CEO secretly pays a reviewer to write a bad review (perhaps through an intermediary that has some affiliation with big oil).
2. Reviewer then writes the bad review.
3. Tesla CEO claims to have car logs proving the reviewer faked the review.
4. Scandal arises as reviewer is shown to have lied.
5. Tesla gets lots of positive press and publicity about how their car is able to drive great, and how the media and big oil is out to get them through any means possible in order to shut down this great new technology.
6. Profit.
 
2013-02-12 12:47:13 AM
Where do you people get the remote logging activation? I didn't found the reference in the article.

Since it was loaned to a journalist, you would think it would have been easier to activate the logging before loaning the car and read the logs on the car return.

Or does the Tesla car has On-Star like cell-phone communications capability?
 
2013-02-12 12:48:11 AM

ISO15693: Throw in the fact that there is an actual log of actual data, and motives dont matter. The data will indicate who is lying. No need to motive speculation.


Because data has never been faked, ever.
 
2013-02-12 12:49:30 AM

harpagon: Where do you people get the remote logging activation? I didn't found the reference in the article.

Since it was loaned to a journalist, you would think it would have been easier to activate the logging before loaning the car and read the logs on the car return.

Or does the Tesla car has On-Star like cell-phone communications capability?


Take a look at the 3 tweets at the top of the article
 
2013-02-12 12:49:38 AM

Cyno01: How many people pay for the privilege?


I have OnStar and love it.  No idea why people are so farking paranoid about somebody being able to see where your vehicle is.  I bet you'd think differently if your car was ever stolen or you drove off the road into a ditch and couldn't call for help.  Being able to send driving directions and starting my car from my phone rocks as well.
 
2013-02-12 12:49:43 AM

mikaloyd: I wonder if Tesla will sue the NYT and lose like it did the BBC?


In a statement following today's ruling, the
...battery ran out before you finished the quote. Tesla must be making computers now, too.
 
2013-02-12 12:52:28 AM
In a statement following today's ruling, the BBC said: "We are pleased Mr Justice Tugendhat has ruled in favour of the BBC on both the issues before the court, first in striking out Tesla's libel claim against the BBC; and secondly in describing Tesla's malicious falsehood claim as so 'gravely deficient' it too could not be allowed to proceed."
 
2013-02-12 12:52:51 AM

mediablitz: Hmmm. Car manufacturers and dealers are doing everything they can to prevent Tesla from selling directly to consumers.


You'll find it's state laws that prevent that, not car manufacturers. GM was wildly successful selling directly to consumers in Brazil.
 
2013-02-12 12:53:03 AM
What the hell is a  New York Times?
 
2013-02-12 12:53:28 AM
I like the Plug tag for this.

That is all.
 
2013-02-12 12:55:24 AM
The need to get this car done so they can get working on this...

media.moddb.com
 
2013-02-12 12:55:30 AM

ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.


Anybody that actually cares what you are up to can track you with your cell phone, freeway and street cameras, store cameras, your banking records, purchase receipts, your garbage's contents, your email and text messages, and that's just for starters. You know that crown your dentist put on your molar? Well, about that....
 
2013-02-12 12:55:37 AM

mediablitz: Hmmm. Car manufacturers and dealers are doing everything they can to prevent Tesla from selling directly to consumers. Now a "reporter" trashes Tesla.

I'm shocked to find out someone would be sucking old business cock...


That's an old anti-trust law car manufacturers have to put up with.  They don't like the law, but they are accurately pointing out that Tesla isn't adhering to it.

Ford, GM, Toyota, etc. would LOVE to sell you cars direct, all over the country.  They aren't allowed to.  So they are justly asking why Tesla can set up showrooms that don't sell cars all over the country but you have to order from them directly.
 
2013-02-12 12:56:47 AM

mikaloyd: In a statement following today's ruling, the BBC said: "We are pleased Mr Justice Tugendhat has ruled in favour of the BBC on both the issues before the court, first in striking out Tesla's libel claim against the BBC; and secondly in describing Tesla's malicious falsehood claim as so 'gravely deficient' it too could not be allowed to proceed."


...which would be why Tesla now logs data when reporters get a loaner.  If you can't sue 'em when they lie, shame 'em.
 
2013-02-12 12:58:18 AM
Seems the journalist's article gives a miles covered / time allowing calculation of his average speed to be 81MPH along a route that is largely 55 to 65 MPH.

Problem? Yes, speed kills mileage, gas or electric. Take a gas powered car to the race track and it will be lucky to get a third of it's EPA mileage.

If he was driving it like he stole it then had the gall to complain about the range, he deserves to be strung up.
 
2013-02-12 01:01:30 AM
Meanwhile before Tesla sued the BBC

Rachel Konrad, a spokeswoman for Tesla told MediaGuardian.co.uk: "The image of them pushing it off the track was so searing," she said.
But she said she was generally happy with the overall tone of the review. "I thought it was a positive piece for Tesla by Top Gear standards. I personally like the show - it savages cars in a very entertaining way.
"My concern was with American viewers who were tuning in for the first time and might not understand the whole angle of the show. We wanted to make clear that range was not a concern over the entire time of the [Top Gear] test."
She said the company would not be pursuing the matter with the BBC. "We would love to have them drive it again whenever they want."


So there you go. Tesla tells whoppers just as good as the NYT
 
2013-02-12 01:01:31 AM
Why does it have to be a Big Oil conspiracy? Why not just plain old laziness?

"Conventional wisdom is that the range sucks on electric cars, nobody really buys these things, it's 4:30pm and who's going to check anyway?"

You expect people who majored in journalism to suddenly sprout a work ethic?
 
2013-02-12 01:02:33 AM
DeVuJa
 
2013-02-12 01:03:18 AM
Note to self:  do not buy said car, they keep track of your comings and goings.
 
2013-02-12 01:03:37 AM
Tesla: If it aint a good review, we sue
 
2013-02-12 01:04:21 AM

g4lt: mikaloyd: In a statement following today's ruling, the BBC said: "We are pleased Mr Justice Tugendhat has ruled in favour of the BBC on both the issues before the court, first in striking out Tesla's libel claim against the BBC; and secondly in describing Tesla's malicious falsehood claim as so 'gravely deficient' it too could not be allowed to proceed."

...which would be why Tesla now logs data when reporters get a loaner.  If you can't sue 'em when they lie, shame 'em.


They logged data then too
 
2013-02-12 01:04:22 AM
 
2013-02-12 01:07:31 AM
The New York Times is standing by its reporter, however. "The Times's article recounting a reporter's test drive in a Tesla Model S was completely factual, describing the trip in detail exactly as it occurred. Any suggestion that the account was 'fake' is, of course, flatly untrue," a spokesperson from the newspaper told CNET. "Our reporter followed the instructions he was given in multiple conversations with Tesla personnel. He described the entire drive in the story; there was no unreported detour. And he was never told to plug the car in overnight in cold weather, despite repeated contact with Tesla."
 
2013-02-12 01:07:33 AM
Here in CA, where the weather is never that cold, I get ~200 mi/charge on mine (same model as the review) with very aggressive driving. Li-On batteries are known to suffer in performance (capacity wise) in cold (sub-zero F) weather. Parts of the report aren't very far-fetched. With 200 miles between superchargers, it's very conceivable to run out before reaching the next charging station.

That being said, when in a situation where the range to be covered is borderline, it would take all but a small detour and some more-aggressive-than-necessary driving to turn the road trip from "it was painless" to "omg, I'm gonna die out here".
 
2013-02-12 01:08:35 AM

I sound fat: Note to self: do not buy said car, they keep track of your comings and goings.


Nope.

Only of the cars they lend to journalists.

"Tesla data logging is only turned on with explicit written permission from customers, but after Top Gear BS, we always keep it on for media. "
http://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/301053361157988352
 
Displayed 50 of 272 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report