If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(TreeHugger)   NYT Reporter: "The new Tesla sedan doesn't come close to stated range in cold conditions. It had to be towed home." Tesla CEO: "Guess what? Our car logged your GPS & battery data, and it says you're full of shiat." Watt now?   (treehugger.com) divider line 272
    More: Plug, NYT, Model S, Elon Musk, Motor Trend  
•       •       •

22671 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Feb 2013 at 11:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



272 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-02-11 08:49:21 PM
It will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
People mocking electrical cars
GPS data being released
Accusations of lying
The journalist ranks closing on Tesla motors so they don't get any more reviews as they "undermined' one of the their own
 
2013-02-11 09:19:53 PM
What! You don't say.  A media member has once again took a bias view and tweeked the test to get the desired results.  Good thing the car didn't have a gas tank.  They would've added a sparking device to blow the tank (chevy truck).  Or like the Ford Explorer, when a tv crew ran a test to prove how safe the vehicle was by only blowing a rear tire while driving a straight line.

/somebody paid this journalist
 
2013-02-11 09:23:45 PM

Nezorf: It will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
People mocking electrical cars
GPS data being released
Accusations of lying
The journalist ranks closing on Tesla motors so they don't get any more reviews as they "undermined' one of the their own


I want to see the Tesla blog details to find out if this is idiot error of if the journalist out and out made shiat up.  If he charged the battery to 90% and ran out of juice, MAYBE that's an excuse.  If he started driving with a 50% chard and took a roundabout way home, that's inexcusable.
 
2013-02-11 09:26:11 PM
Looking over his article titles he seems to shill for big oil.
 
2013-02-11 09:27:44 PM
I'm betting that the NY Times version of events is closest to the truth.

The article didn't make it all that bad for them-- just part of the learning curve with a new technology.

Elon seems determined to turn it into tons of free negative advertising.  He cannot win.
 
2013-02-11 09:28:57 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Looking over his article titles he seems to shill for big oil.


I read his article and it seems it should be pretty easy to cross check his multiple phone calls to Tesla, verify the story with the tow truck driver, and check (from Tesla) that the car went where he said it did.
 
2013-02-11 10:07:36 PM
But I was told all reporters, save those from Fox and the like, were left wing commies,
 
2013-02-11 10:07:44 PM
I'm waiting to hear some more facts come out before pronouncing one or the other party guilty here.  It's a very strange thing, this.
 
2013-02-11 10:23:11 PM
ecx.images-amazon.com

Oil companies influencing the media? Say it isn't so.
/Great read
 
2013-02-11 10:57:31 PM
Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.
 
2013-02-11 11:03:08 PM
You know how the EPA determines highway fuel economy?  They run the car on a dynamometer using a program that lasts for 12.5 minutes at an average speed of 48mph.
 
2013-02-11 11:09:43 PM

ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.


That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.

I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box, but you don't like hearing a car company admitting "We can see everything in that black box at any time."
 
2013-02-11 11:16:14 PM

Popcorn Johnny: You know how the EPA determines highway fuel economy?  They run the car on a dynamometer using a program that lasts for 12.5 minutes at an average speed of 48mph.


The whole boring detail can be found here.

I do have to say, I have a 2006 Infiniti G35 sedan and the EPA estimates were a little low.  It was listed at 17/22 and I get about 23 on the highway.  They've only dropped about .2 mpg over the years, but the car has 140,000 miles on it, so that's expected.  When the AWD kicks in it can really hurt the mileage so it's good it doesn't snow much around here.
 
2013-02-11 11:18:54 PM

jake_lex: I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box,


Tesla is probably logging far more data than your usual black box records, for good reason.
 
2013-02-11 11:19:00 PM

Lsherm: I do have to say, I have a 2006 Infiniti G35 sedan and the EPA estimates were a little low.  It was listed at 17/22 and I get about 23 on the highway.  They've only dropped about .2 mpg over the years, but the car has 140,000 miles on it, so that's expected.  When the AWD kicks in it can really hurt the mileage so it's good it doesn't snow much around here.


What's strange is that it seems that every car I've had with a huge motor and low mileage estimates does better while fuel efficient vehicles do worse than the EPA numbers.
 
2013-02-11 11:39:14 PM

ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.


If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, citizen.
 
2013-02-11 11:47:15 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Lsherm: I do have to say, I have a 2006 Infiniti G35 sedan and the EPA estimates were a little low.  It was listed at 17/22 and I get about 23 on the highway.  They've only dropped about .2 mpg over the years, but the car has 140,000 miles on it, so that's expected.  When the AWD kicks in it can really hurt the mileage so it's good it doesn't snow much around here.

What's strange is that it seems that every car I've had with a huge motor and low mileage estimates does better while fuel efficient vehicles do worse than the EPA numbers.


Maybe because the bigger engine hits the overdrive gear faster and can stay there because of the extra torque?  Just guessing.

Mine's a 3.5L V6, which is now on the bigger end of things, but it's not a huge engine.  However, during normal driving it hits 5th at 40mph and stays there.  A tree fell on it last year and I rented a Honda Civic for a week, and the Civic shifted gears all the time.  The Honda still got better mileage because it had a tiny engine, but it was definitely working harder.  If I was going 70 on the highway and had to accelerate, it would drop a gear.  I suppose that adds up over time.
 
2013-02-11 11:49:21 PM
Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?
 
2013-02-11 11:49:27 PM
Bloggers are going to get a charge out of this
 
2013-02-11 11:53:03 PM
God, RTFA. Tesla puts a data logger on THE CARS THEY LEND TO JOURNALISTS.
 
2013-02-11 11:55:06 PM

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


"Payoffs from oil companies with a definite interest in the status quo" aren't a reason to lie?
 
2013-02-11 11:55:21 PM

lack of warmth: What! You don't say.  A media member has once again took a bias view and tweeked the test to get the desired results.


Probably trying out for a gig on Top Gear.  I heard they pulled a similar stunt.
 
2013-02-11 11:55:42 PM
Automotive journalists are only second to video game journalists in rankings of full of shiat shills.
 
2013-02-11 11:56:35 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: God, RTFA. Tesla puts a data logger on THE CARS THEY LEND TO JOURNALISTS.


No one reads the articles anymore. It's easier to just pop straight into the thread and froth right away.
 
2013-02-11 11:57:21 PM
www.hongkiat.com
To be continued...
 
2013-02-11 11:57:37 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: God, RTFA. Tesla puts a data logger on THE CARS THEY LEND TO JOURNALISTS.


No, according to tweets, they only turn it on when they lend it to journalists.
 
2013-02-11 11:57:53 PM

jake_lex: ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.

That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.

I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box, but you don't like hearing a car company admitting "We can see everything in that black box at any time."


You don't hear them ADMITTING it...but that doesn't mean they can't.
 
2013-02-11 11:58:16 PM
Oldiron_79

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they both have reasons to lie, but they're just different. And it's a well known fact that the NYT has been an administration mouthpiece for quite some time. Like since at least the Vietnam war. SIgned,

LIB!!!!!

/I think you're going to believe derp.
 
2013-02-11 11:58:40 PM

notmtwain: I'm betting that the NY Times version of events is closest to the truth.

The article didn't make it all that bad for them-- just part of the learning curve with a new technology.

Elon seems determined to turn it into tons of free negative advertising.  He cannot win.


Being "close" doesn't count.  Even if NY Times was mostly right - they will still come out looking bad and biased.  Elon cannot lose here.
 
2013-02-11 11:59:04 PM
Jeremy Clarkson is amused

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2013-02-11 11:59:58 PM

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


Unlike conservatives and libturdarians we're going to find out the facts, not jump to conclusions based on who said it.
 
2013-02-12 12:00:26 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Lsherm: I do have to say, I have a 2006 Infiniti G35 sedan and the EPA estimates were a little low.  It was listed at 17/22 and I get about 23 on the highway.  They've only dropped about .2 mpg over the years, but the car has 140,000 miles on it, so that's expected.  When the AWD kicks in it can really hurt the mileage so it's good it doesn't snow much around here.

What's strange is that it seems that every car I've had with a huge motor and low mileage estimates does better while fuel efficient vehicles do worse than the EPA numbers.


My father has a 99 Corvette. At 75 mph, it gets about 33 mpg. In 6th gear it's almost idling along.
 
2013-02-12 12:01:00 AM

Gyrfalcon: jake_lex: ajgeek: Just the ability of a company to (remotely?) turn on full logging on any vehicle anytime makes me want to do everything I can to keep my 96 Neon running forever.

That's why I think this may backfire on Tesla.  They might get a "Wait, what, everything I do in my car can be logged?" reaction they don't want.

I mean, yeah, every car built now has a black box, but you don't like hearing a car company admitting "We can see everything in that black box at any time."

You don't hear them ADMITTING it...but that doesn't mean they can't.


Outside of Tesla and GM's OnStar program, most black boxes lack the means to phone home.  They can be read after a crash, but they don't continually report back.

I believe GM's fine print tells you that data gets uploaded in the event of a crash or other event that requires emergency help.
 
2013-02-12 12:01:29 AM
I'll reserve my outrage until I see the data.
 
2013-02-12 12:02:20 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Lsherm: I do have to say, I have a 2006 Infiniti G35 sedan and the EPA estimates were a little low.  It was listed at 17/22 and I get about 23 on the highway.  They've only dropped about .2 mpg over the years, but the car has 140,000 miles on it, so that's expected.  When the AWD kicks in it can really hurt the mileage so it's good it doesn't snow much around here.

What's strange is that it seems that every car I've had with a huge motor and low mileage estimates does better while fuel efficient vehicles do worse than the EPA numbers.


The EPA doesnt actually test vehicles these days they just apply a math formula based on weight and hp. Anyways the formula consistantly over estimates mileage for small vehicles andunderestimates mileage for large vehicles because it doesnt account for the fact that volume increases by the cube area increases by the square, so it does not take aerodynamics in to account at all.
 
2013-02-12 12:02:58 AM

chapman: lack of warmth: What! You don't say.  A media member has once again took a bias view and tweeked the test to get the desired results.

Probably trying out for a gig on Top Gear.  I heard they pulled a similar stunt.


Wait, so you're saying that the moustachioed gentleman who tried and failed to drive the G-Wiz up the 33% incline was really James May wearing a strip of electrical tape under his nose!?
 
2013-02-12 12:03:43 AM
I read the NYT article. What I don't get is why the author didn't just stop at a conventional electric car charging station. Those are all over the place (well, compared to Tesla's own ever few hundred miles). I assume the Tesla also has an adapter for the standard electric car chargers.
 
2013-02-12 12:06:16 AM
I bet Edison's sedan can electrify its potential customers...and elephants.
 
2013-02-12 12:06:31 AM
Some writer that barely got out of J School trying to cut corners got burned by his stupidity and tried to blame the car. Only problem is, cars today know more than the people driving them. OBD III for the win.
 
2013-02-12 12:07:53 AM

ameeriklane: I read the NYT article. What I don't get is why the author didn't just stop at a conventional electric car charging station. Those are all over the place (well, compared to Tesla's own ever few hundred miles). I assume the Tesla also has an adapter for the standard electric car chargers.


Maybe they don't?  He said the tow truck had to attach a special Tesla adapter to charge the car on the side of the road.
 
2013-02-12 12:08:51 AM

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/may/12/pressandpublishing.usnew s  They already lied before, and thats because they were just lazy
 
2013-02-12 12:09:03 AM

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


NYT has practiced poor journalism for about 2 decades now. This view was only reinforced when my father-in-law shared the same opinion, but what does he know? He only graduated Summa cum laude from the NYU School of Journalism.
 
2013-02-12 12:11:11 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Lsherm: I do have to say, I have a 2006 Infiniti G35 sedan and the EPA estimates were a little low.  It was listed at 17/22 and I get about 23 on the highway.  They've only dropped about .2 mpg over the years, but the car has 140,000 miles on it, so that's expected.  When the AWD kicks in it can really hurt the mileage so it's good it doesn't snow much around here.

What's strange is that it seems that every car I've had with a huge motor and low mileage estimates does better while fuel efficient vehicles do worse than the EPA numbers.


Depends. I've seen two or three different sets of EPA fuel ratings for my car, but the latest numbers from fueleconomy.gov are way lower than I usually get.* (Hell, they're barely higher than my my brother used to get out of his 1990 F-150.)

*I usually see high 20s around town and commuting to work. (Rush hour sucks.) If I drive over to WI and put high-octane, no-ethanol gas in the tank (all the gas here is E10), I can get 35+ over long distances.

My favorite story about mileage is a Saturn I had in college. I'd get low 30s around town, 40+ on the freeway. (Personal best was 42, on a trip where I also... shall we say... drove very fast, through much of Pennsylvania.)

But the first few months I had it, I just drove to and from school. (I shouldn't have - I should have been walking, biking, or taking a bus, but I was geeked about having a car.) It was about two miles each way, which gave the engine just enough time to remember it was an engine, and maybe consider warming up, before I shut it off.

My second tank of gas lasted me the entire month of February. Average mileage? About 18mpg.
 
2013-02-12 12:11:35 AM
Assuming an EVs heat is operating at full blast (max temp / max fan speed) what does that do to the theoretical 400 mile range? Five percent less? Fifty percent?
 
2013-02-12 12:12:52 AM
It is fun to watch people take sides before data release. (give me a car that can run further on less ENERGY and you have my attention. Until then, electricity or gas is irrelevant to me)
 
2013-02-12 12:14:57 AM

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


There are big oil shills on all sides of the political spectrum.
 
2013-02-12 12:19:13 AM

Nezorf: It will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
People mocking electrical cars
GPS data being released
Accusations of lying
The journalist ranks closing on Tesla motors so they don't get any more reviews as they "undermined' one of the their own



Actually the opposite would happen.  A reviewer lying undermines all other reviewers more than it undermines the company.  Reviewers will flock to Tesla even knowing their results are monitored it is win win for the reviewers.  Either you get a bunch of them showing that the Times reviewer (and Top Gear) were full of shiat and you maintain the integrity of the reviewing system.  Or you get a bunch of them showing that hey there may be something to these reports and you maintain the integrity of the reviewing system.

When looking at reviews integrity means a lot to the majority of people.  To people that love Tesla or hate Tesla they are going to listen to whatever biased review they want.

The same goes with the rest of the world, although the media seems to be fairly successful at selling opinion over fact now.
 
2013-02-12 12:19:38 AM

Happy Hours: Jeremy Clarkson is amused

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x315]


Or "Why Tesla datalogs the cars they lend to the press now."

One pack of vicious lies is all it takes.
 
2013-02-12 12:19:46 AM

Oldiron_79: Tesla has every reason to lie, NYT has none, guess which Im gonna believe.Or are you libs just gonna label the NYT a conservative rag now?


Throw in the fact that there is an actual log of actual data, and motives dont matter. The data will indicate who is lying. No need to motive speculation.

Given that many others have run the same test which has given the same results that Tesla claims, AND they claim that the logs vindicate them. If the reporter's story was accurate/truthful, Tesla would simply say "99 out of 100 times it works, as shown by all these other testers, this was an outlier"

I think there is a 99.99999% chance that this reporter will be out of a job in less than a month.
 
2013-02-12 12:21:27 AM
Grammar... how does it work?
I should proofread. anyway, You get the idea.

The only way Tesla could lose here is if they made a mistake and got data sets confused.
 
Displayed 50 of 272 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report