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(Yahoo)   Here he is on a silver platter, GOP: A black, Christian neurosurgeon who hates Obamacare, was born into poverty, is against Affirmative Action, and graduated top of his class from Johns Hopkins. Now don't fark it up   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 338
    More: Interesting, GOP, Johns Hopkins, obamacare, affirmative actions, needy, HSAs, National Prayer Breakfasts, Sean Hannity  
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6033 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Feb 2013 at 6:09 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-11 06:54:11 PM
The GOP thinks they need to close the successful-black-man gap to have a successful candidate. They are ignoring the honesty gap and empathy gap to do so. That is why they'll lose.

This guy does nothing to close the empathy gap. He's so absurdly self-made I doubt he could empathize with anyone's plight, except for the rich boot-strappers who never needed help from no one.

Maybe he could win some honesty points, but nobody has asked him the tough questions that fall outside his wheel house, like how he'll win the right in the primaries without losing the moderates for the general election.
 
2013-02-11 06:54:25 PM

DarwiOdrade: By the way, Ben Carson doesn't believe in, or seem to understand, evolution either: "I don't believe in evolution...evolution says that because there are these similarities, even though we can't specifically connect them, it proves that this is what happened."


The SDA church provided additional legal council to WIlliam Jennings Bryan in the Scopes trial. Their beef is not with evolutionary biology per se, but with geologic uniformitarianism (links to PDF) and its challenge to the Biblical Flood narrative. They see evobio as a consequence of unigeo.
 
2013-02-11 06:55:34 PM

WhyteRaven74: SomeoneDumb: That's a pretty crowded locale.

Yeah it's gotten rather crowded over the last 40 years


They've been there for a while though.  They've probably got a nice section staked out.
 
2013-02-11 06:56:29 PM

Mrtraveler01: k1j2b3: So apparently when actual hispanics decide to talk about immigration (Rubio, e.g.) it is still racist...if you are a conservative hispanic.

Actually, the real funny thing is that the right disagrees with Rubio's stance on immigration.

Thanks for making me laugh!


Your comment was about Republicans being racist for even talking about immigration, as if we are pandering to latinos. What does it matter who agrees with Rubio's ideas or not? He is a conservative latino talking about flipping immigration and throwing ideas out there...but still conservatives are racist?  You are insane.
 
2013-02-11 07:00:52 PM

k1j2b3: I think you all missed what the HSA idea was about. Instead of paying into Medicare our whole lives, that would be put into a personal HSA account. At least, that was the basic idea. Dr. Carson said that there was more detail to it than that, so he was just throwing out an idea.

I think this makes sense. It would be in lieu of health insurance. You spend in on medical needs as necessary throughout life. It would be up to the elderly person with a lot to spend in his HSA account, if he wanted that knee replacement at 90 or a quadruple bypass at 85, or if he'd rather not spend that money and pass it on to his family.

Now, I see do see a problem with this simplified explanation. What happens to the baby at 2 years old that needs heart surgery and doesn't have enough money in an HSA?  I'd be curious to hear more about the whole idea.


Or you know, ANYONE that needs major medical care. Do you have any concept of what the average income is in this nation?

People on this commenting board seem to think that if we do a new idea like this, that the system we have today will be the same one we are dealing with.  The whole point is to create cheaper and smarter healthcare. I think I would trust a neurosurgeon who has spent more than 35 years in healthcare and insurance to know more than 99% of the commenters.

Do you think he's doing accounting or something? Because he isn't. Being smart or capable at something doesn't mean you're smart and capable in all things.
 
2013-02-11 07:01:23 PM

hackalope: So HSAs have been working in Singapore for a while now. I personally worry about consumer fraud, failures of long term personal planning, and how the finical apparatus to actually save the money would work. That being said it's one of the more viable ways to address heath care problems, it a legitimate view.


A few things.  First, Singapore doctors (who accept the national insurance anyway) are strictly limited in what they can charge for any given procedure.  Hear a lot of support for price controls here?

Beyond that, fully half the working-age population of Singapore are 'guest workers', who get shipped back to Bangladesh or the Philippines when they hit 55 or start having medical issues, whichever comes first.   They do pay into the social insurance systems they don't stand a chance of getting anything out of though.  So that's nice.
 
2013-02-11 07:03:44 PM
I hope he gets skewered in the primaries. Lots of ego driven crazy in that small blurb
 
2013-02-11 07:04:57 PM
so much typical hatred and racism from the left.
 
2013-02-11 07:06:07 PM

jehovahs witness protection: We like the hell out of him


I say this to you and I'm completely serious: If you truly like him you will have to fight tooth and nail for him. If he seriously throws his hat in the ring there will be a fierce pushback from many of the Fundamentalists that are still so powerful in the Republican Party. They were willing to hold their nose once for Romney---they will not abide being shut out two elections in a row, and especially not for guy who's modern prophet is a woman.
 
2013-02-11 07:06:48 PM

DarwiOdrade: SomeoneDumb: Masso: Are USA ready for Seventh-Day Adventist President?

I have no idea where they fit on the evangelical scale.

To give you an idea, an SDA church I pass by on my way to & from work has this on their sign: If evolution were true, mothers would have four arms.


That sounds pretty standard for American Christians in general, actually.
 
2013-02-11 07:08:37 PM

WhyteRaven74: SomeoneDumb: I have no idea where they fit on the evangelical scale.

they're on the batshiat crazy side


Their stance on Creationism is amusing:
"Universe? Could be billions of years old. Who knows. Our Earth? 6000 years old."


And how does one become a doctor without believing in embryology?
 
2013-02-11 07:08:55 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: so much typical hatred and racism from the left.


What I said to JWP goes for you too. Serious reactionary pushback to his candidacy will come both from racists and evangelicals in the Republican Party
 
2013-02-11 07:11:07 PM
Moldy, Half-Eaten Ham Sandwich / Palin 2016!
 
2013-02-11 07:12:47 PM

Mrtraveler01: Sergeant Grumbles: Mrtraveler01: HSA's are worthless.

I'm in my mid-20's and even I don't have one because I'd rather have comprehensive insurance instead of taking a chance and having to pay out of pocket for my medical expenses if something bad were to happen to me.

But this guy's plan is worse.
Inheritable HSA's? I mean.... what the holy fark. Let's just drop the pretense that this is anything else but a way for the wealthy to further segregate themselves from those wretched poors.

I don't even get the inheritable part.

What exactly does that mean?


I guess it means if you have any money left in your HSA after you get done paying for dying (an expensive thing to do in this country) you can will it to your kids.
 
2013-02-11 07:13:15 PM

k1j2b3: I think I would trust a neurosurgeon who has spent more than 35 years in healthcare and insurance to know more than 99% of the commenters.


The American Medical Association, the American College of Physicians, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American College of Surgeons, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the American Society of Anesthesiologists, the American Osteopathic Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the American College of Cardiology all support Obamacare.

But this one dude at Hopkins is against ObamaCare.

I would trust these 10 major medical groups representing hundreds of thousands of doctors over a wide variety of sub-specialties over his one guy.  But you wouldn't.  Hey, it is what it is.
 
2013-02-11 07:14:30 PM

HotWingConspiracy: k1j2b3: mongbiohazard:
Likewise the GOP has a problem with the latino vote... so their solution is to make some noise about fixing our illegal/legal immigration mess with confidence that's going to get the latino votes. They don't even realize how condescending that sounds or how incomplete it is. They can only insist so many times that they're not racist before the denials start wearing thin - and that time was some time ago.

So apparently when actual hispanics decide to talk about immigration (Rubio, e.g.) it is still racist...if you are a conservative hispanic. I get it. Only liberal hispanics are 'real' hispanics.

Rubio probably isn't a racist, but his party and their financial backers are. He's a marketing gimmick.

Plus you need to consider how everyone that isn't Cuban feels about the sweetheart treatment that Cubans get in terms of immigration.


Being a naturalized Latino immigrant, allow me to break down the two reasons why I think the GOP's "softened" stance on immigration isn't going to work.

1.) Because even though they are now making a lot of noise about a path to citizenship, they are still very much adamant about slashing the safety net down to nothing, which a disproportionately poor demographic such as Hispanics still benefits greatly from.  This is why Marco Rubio isn't going to do shiat for them in securing the Latino vote in the end; because he is yet another "fark you I got mine" conservative who just knows how to roll his Rs.

It's not just the inherent racism and xenophobia; it's the fact that "job creator" fellators like Rubio are all too happy to eliminate pell grants, student loans, and other vital forms of government assistance that help us Latinos to get ahead, so they can provide yet another corporate tax break.

2.) Because the GOP still has a HUGE problem renouncing their kooks.  Whenever one of these assholes says something stupid, the GOP reaction at large is usually half-assed and contrived, and does not address the problem at large.  They usually say something along the lines of "that's not the language I would have used" instead of fully repudiating the mentality behind said statement; it's always just "I'm sorry you were offended" bullshiat.

And, as pointed out, Rubio is Cuban.  He has had a completely different experience than the rest of us immigrants.  I don't resent him for it, but I do resent the fact that there is perceived notion that just because we're both Latino, we're going to relate.  He did not experience the trials and tribulations the majority of us have to go through to obtain citizenship, and while he does have a more evolved position than the rest of his party when he comes to immigration, he still refuses to publicly acknowledge that his own party has alienated Latinos to an immeasurable degree.

His interview with Stewart was direct evidence.  Stewart flat out told him the GOP needs to soften its rhetoric towards Latinos, and Rubio basically said "No, I don't see that".  He was either oblivious to it (unlikely) or was pretending to be, which is worse.
 
2013-02-11 07:15:29 PM
He has a lot of quick, pat answers on some big issues.

Interesting, but let's see how this plays out.
 
2013-02-11 07:21:09 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: NFA: In fact he said Americans desperately need healthcare.

But he said the best way to do that was with HSA's that could be passed on via inheritance, and that the government would still pay for the indigent. That sounds worse than what we already have. We need to get the free market as far away from healthcare as possible.


I had a professor like this in when I was in college back in 2009. He was a genius guy, but that whole idea astounds me just from a policy perspective. He basically said "look, if the problem is people unable to get insurance, than the least invasive solution is for the government to back private pre-existing condition insurance plans like they do student loans! Once the free market knows there is profit to be made, we can have universal coverage if people want it while leaving people free to not buy insurance if they want!"

He was also someone who complained about both parties pursuing rent-seeking policy, and I can't think of anything more rent-seeking than the government agreeing to cover any losses if someone gets sick but in return the person has to pay a private company to get that government care. There's a reason we stopped doing the student loan thing he mentioned: it makes no sense to have a middleman who exists entirely to profit from the deal. Add in the fact that so much of the safety net is on the chopping block because it's obviously full of lazy abusers, and that tells me his solution would end up casting everyone who has ever gotten cancer and then had their policy lapse is now one of those selfish takers who are scamming the system.
 
2013-02-11 07:25:53 PM

MacEnvy: So all the GOP needs to do to win is "black it up" a little? You morons, this is why you will continue to lose. You honestly think it's about race and not about policy. You epic failures of human beings.


Not to mention the Republicans are playing the Long Primary that caused Romney to implode.  Why the fark are they running for 2016, again?  2014 is right around the corner and a lot of people are realizing the Republican Congress is doing a lot of shiatty things right now.  Not to mention it's quite pointless to start looking for someone to run against a President who won't even be able to run in 2016.  Why are they choose an Obamabuster now?

The Republicans are trying their hardest to paste their shiatty viewpoints on someone who isn't an old white asshole and it simply is not working.  Not only are they still pulling their same old tired shiat, they're still fighting against a president that kicked their asses twice who has basically won against them.  Yet notice they're still farking that chicken as well.
 
2013-02-11 07:27:28 PM
Well he did have to practice on his own brain first...
 
2013-02-11 07:27:57 PM

Grungehamster: Add in the fact that so much of the safety net is on the chopping block because it's obviously full of lazy abusers, and that tells me his solution would end up casting everyone who has ever gotten cancer and then had their policy lapse is now one of those selfish takers who are scamming the system.


It says it on the tin. "Government pays for the indigent."
One guess what the right's new talking point will be.
 
2013-02-11 07:29:02 PM

Guntram Shatterhand: MacEnvy: So all the GOP needs to do to win is "black it up" a little? You morons, this is why you will continue to lose. You honestly think it's about race and not about policy. You epic failures of human beings.

Not to mention the Republicans are playing the Long Primary that caused Romney to implode.  Why the fark are they running for 2016, again?  2014 is right around the corner and a lot of people are realizing the Republican Congress is doing a lot of shiatty things right now.  Not to mention it's quite pointless to start looking for someone to run against a President who won't even be able to run in 2016.  Why are they choose an Obamabuster now?

The Republicans are trying their hardest to paste their shiatty viewpoints on someone who isn't an old white asshole and it simply is not working.  Not only are they still pulling their same old tired shiat, they're still fighting against a president that kicked their asses twice who has basically won against them.  Yet notice they're still farking that chicken as well.


They're honestly just desperate.  It's like they're a shiatty real estate agent trying to sell a house with serious foundation issues.  They're trying to play every possible angle making sure the buyer doesn't notice the goddamn house is farking falling apart.
 
2013-02-11 07:29:32 PM
What, Ben Carson made it to FARK?

*checks link*

Holy molly, Ben Carson! That guy gets:

BATMAN RESPECT KNUCKLES
www.personal.psu.edu
 
2013-02-11 07:29:53 PM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: I guess it means if you have any money left in your HSA after you get done paying for dying (an expensive thing to do in this country) you can will it to your kids.


Which you already can do.  However, unless the balance is going to your spouse (where it can roll into their HSA), the transfer is treated as taxable income, just like inheriting a traditional IRA (because it was tax-exempt when it was contributed).

What the Romneys and other GOP millionaires just cannot get is that the majority of Americans (in the zero, 10% or 15% brackets) simply aren't highly motivated by and don't go around planning their lives around tax shelters and exemptions.  I guess it's a bigger deal to people who might be in the 38% bracket and worried that they might pay lots on an inherited HSA. Tiny, tiny violin time.
 
2013-02-11 07:32:24 PM
images.businessweek.com
"I like the cut of your jib. Though, uh, you've kept away from the white women, right?"
 
2013-02-11 07:32:50 PM
Ben Carson?  The knife-wielding street fighter who became master of the scalpel?
 
2013-02-11 07:33:07 PM
One more guy who's really good at one thing so he thinks he knows everything about everything?  Have we seen this before?

///this problem comes up a lot with doctors in particular
//though they're not the only ones
 
2013-02-11 07:33:46 PM
Ben Carson comes out in favor of Health Savings Accounts and a flat tax and suddenly he vaults into the lead for the Republican nomination.  if that's the case it speaks volumes to the low quality of Republican candidates.  Just because Carson believes these things doesn't make them any more or less valid.  A flat tax is regressive plain and simple.  HSA's for everyone may sound good but how much can the average and below average worker put into an HSA to cover himself and the family.  The government will help but how much will that cost?  "The devil is in the details" may sound cliched but Carson will soon learn that things are not as simple as they appear.
 
2013-02-11 07:35:43 PM

Somacandra: [upload.wikimedia.org image 198x202]

This is America. Theoretically, anyone's got a chance. Let him run. I don't think he'll get past the primaries, but who knows? Give it a shot.

[checks Wiki....]

Oh shiat....he's a Seventh-Day Adventist? Good luck with that. I would be very very surprised if he gets the Fundie nod. Then again, then held their noses for Romney and Joseph Smith. They might hold their nose for Carson and Ellen G. White.


Some Fundamentalist sects are more or less inclusive. Such as the Mormons. Adventists are not at all inclusive. Their religious snobbery knows no bounds. They alienate other Fundies too.
 
2013-02-11 07:37:22 PM
"We can make contributions for people who are indigent," Carson said. "Instead of sending all this money to some bureaucracy, let's put it in their HSAs.

Indigent people have HSAs?

Seriously can we stop acting like an HSA does anything at all to cover health care costs? HSA is a tax cut for people who already have health insurance.
 
2013-02-11 07:37:47 PM

runwiz: HSA's for everyone may sound good but how much can the average and below average worker put into an HSA to cover himself and the family.


Considering my current employer isn't doing 401K matching again this year, I'm going to guess the answer is none of them, and the right's solution will be something something bootstraps, something something I got mine.
 
2013-02-11 07:38:28 PM

homelessdude: He has a lot of quick, pat answers on some big issues.

Interesting, but let's see how this plays out.


Does he have any long, thoughtful answers?
 
2013-02-11 07:38:36 PM
When it comes to taxes, Carson pushed for a flat income tax by citing the biblical concept of tithing.

This alone suggests the man may be a deep well of weapons-grade derp.
 
2013-02-11 07:40:01 PM

what_now: "We can make contributions for people who are indigent," Carson said. "Instead of sending all this money to some bureaucracy, let's put it in their HSAs.

Indigent people have HSAs?

Seriously can we stop acting like an HSA does anything at all to cover health care costs? HSA is a tax cut for people who already have health insurance.


They would if they stopped wasting their money on refrigerators and shiat.
 
2013-02-11 07:41:30 PM
It's only 2013. We don't have to come up with candidates to be Not Mitt Romney for another year, at least.

Well, Not Whoever The Owners Of The GOP Decide Is Electable, I guess. Although I'd leave to see Captain Mitthab take another run at the big seat in 2016.
 
2013-02-11 07:44:05 PM

Grungehamster: Sergeant Grumbles: NFA: In fact he said Americans desperately need healthcare.

But he said the best way to do that was with HSA's that could be passed on via inheritance, and that the government would still pay for the indigent. That sounds worse than what we already have. We need to get the free market as far away from healthcare as possible.

I had a professor like this in when I was in college back in 2009. He was a genius guy, but that whole idea astounds me just from a policy perspective. He basically said "look, if the problem is people unable to get insurance, than the least invasive solution is for the government to back private pre-existing condition insurance plans like they do student loans! Once the free market knows there is profit to be made, we can have universal coverage if people want it while leaving people free to not buy insurance if they want!"


Wait a minute there.
You can a college professor, a theoretically well-education man - who thinks the free market hasn't already realized there's a shiat-ton of profit to be made in health care?

I'd ask for a refund of the money you spent to sit in his class.
 
2013-02-11 07:44:16 PM

slayer199: Still a member of the GOP and I didn't see him say much about his social policies.  If he's a social moderate, the GOP establishment won't give him a shot...if he's a wacky social conservative, the electorate won't give him a shot.


Creationist.
 
2013-02-11 07:46:04 PM
Just another rich asshole.

And fark the GOP.  They literally think that they can win with this rich fark who just happens to be black.  Racists.
 
2013-02-11 07:46:37 PM

colon_pow: so you're paying $2500-3000 per year for insurance whether you get sick or not.
i pay about $35/month for a $6000 deductible, put $300/month in the HSA and pay all my medical bills out of that.  I've been coming out ahead for the past 2 years i've been doing it that way.


That's the thing about HSAs; they're great just so long as you don't get sick or injured.
 
2013-02-11 07:48:08 PM
It's like bizzaro candidates;

"Oh, you have Hillary Clinton...Well...uh...We have...a woman too. Somewhere, uh yeah here's...Sarah Palin! So all you womans can totally vote for us! Oh, uh, a black guy? Yeah we've got...uh, black guys. So, you know. Vote Republican...uh...dawg."
 
2013-02-11 07:49:06 PM
He wants to base our tax policy on the bible. The tax policy influencing the biggest economy in the world based on guidance regarding payments to a church written in a book by desert nomads thousands of years ago when people sacrificed animals to please the gods and thought a magical sky person told them not to eat bacon.

 I don't care how many degrees he has, he's an idiot.
 
2013-02-11 07:50:32 PM
When it comes to taxes, Carson pushed for a flat income tax by citing the biblical concept of tithing.

Because law should be based on religion? Really the reason why Republicans like him is because he is black? But they are against affirmative action right?
 
2013-02-11 07:51:01 PM

Infernalist: Just another rich asshole.



And you know this... how?

Read his autobiography first, then you can judge:

cdn-parable.com
 
2013-02-11 07:52:36 PM
"We can make contributions for people who are indigent," Carson said. "Instead of sending all this money to some bureaucracy, let's put it in their HSAs. Now they have some control over their own health care. And very quickly they're going to learn how to be responsible."

OK, I see how you can do some things to be responsible for your own health. Work out, eat right, stop smoking, slap on some suntan lotion when you go to the beach, so on and so forth.

But take just my family for example. How's my dad supposed to responsibly avoid having the diabetes he's had since birth? How about the uncle who got prostate cancer - how's he supposed to cut down the odds of that happening? My mom's breast cancer scare - what'd she do wrong? My brother that got run over by a drunk driver while walking to work one morning - what's Carson's plan to not have that happen?

I suppose a HSA could work for regularly expected things. Twice yearly dental checkups, new glasses, maybe some kind of cheapish regular allergy or birth control meds. But I'm pretty sure the first time you have to actually go into a hospital, that thing'll disappear like a fart in high wind.

If his plan is to take all the money we're currently spending and redirect it to HSA - then why don't we just take all the money we're spending and redirect it to single payer?
 
2013-02-11 07:53:29 PM
Good point subby a black guy who believes normal GOP dogma how could he ever lose???

upload.wikimedia.org

Oh yeah, that's how!!!
 
2013-02-11 07:55:11 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: spiderpaz: Why would I want someone as egotistical as a neurosurgeon to be my President?  How does that make them a good President?  Is his qualification that he's black .... and that's it? 
So I guess the GOP still just doesn't get it and they're going to shoot themselves in the foot AGAIN.

Gais... Gais... Guess what.. Gaissssss. GAIS! WE GOT A BLACK GUY!

That means we're not racist cause we have a black friend now!

Gais, Gais, This is sweet we are so not racist now. We got Herman Cain, this dude, and Marco Rubio! That's like three! Gais! THREE!!

We are SO not racist.  We love minorities so much they make up .000000000001% of the party and we'll talk about them for like 10 whole minutes before stuffing them into their minority cage until the next election cycle.

Gais. Now let's call the democrats racist cause we have a black gai.  Yeah.. That's the ticket.  That's why everyone hates us, not enough black gais.


And women! We have women! Look at all these women on Fox News! And Palin!

WHY DON'T PEOPLE LOVE US YEEEEEETTTTT?!!!?!
 
2013-02-11 07:58:01 PM
Stupid Republicans, People didn't vote for Obama just because he was black like you idiots think. You thinking you can run ANOTHER black Republicans saying the same BS is not going to everyone voting for them. It's failed every time you have tried.

It's WHAT these people say not what color they are you idiots. But you guys are so racist and think people can only vote for someone like Obama because he is black because you are superficial idiots.
 
2013-02-11 07:58:12 PM
s1.hubimg.com
 
2013-02-11 08:00:27 PM

GilRuiz1: Infernalist: Just another rich asshole.


And you know this... how?

Read his autobiography first, then you can judge:

[cdn-parable.com image 249x400]


I don't need to read a book to know he's an asshole who got the nod because he's rich, black and hates taxes.

He's Herman Cain, minus the stupid.
 
2013-02-11 08:02:58 PM

GilRuiz1: Read his autobiography first, then you can judge


I love how the GOP primaries are a glorified book tour where they try to rake in as much cash as possible while simultaneously trying like hell to avoid the nomination. Looks like Dr. Carson is off to a good start.
 
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