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(Yahoo)   Volkswagen reaches for the Holy Grail of the auto business: the world car   (autos.yahoo.com) divider line 88
    More: Interesting, Toyota Motor Corp., Volkswagen Golf, IHS Automotive, Bernstein Research, Volkswagen, production system, Renault-Nissan, General Motors Co.  
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5112 clicks; posted to Business » on 11 Feb 2013 at 5:12 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-11 03:50:20 PM  
Ein welt, ein volk, eine auto.
 
2013-02-11 03:54:07 PM  
You know who else...oh never mind, it's too easy.
 
2013-02-11 04:07:06 PM  
Volkswagen has told America to go f*** itself several times. They really ramped it up in the 90s. I think they actually hired a call center in India once to call every Volkswagen owner in America to go fark himself, at least 3 times a week. The most frustrated people I have ever known were American Volkswagen owners.
 
2013-02-11 04:10:13 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Volkswagen has told America to go f*** itself several times. They really ramped it up in the 90s. I think they actually hired a call center in India once to call every Volkswagen owner in America to go fark himself, at least 3 times a week. The most frustrated people I have ever known were American Volkswagen owners.


We had a 2003 Jetta TDI.  Loved that car, great gas mileage, really no issues mechanically, comfortable/easy drive.  Then some idiot ran a stop sign and totaled it.   Now we have a 2004 TDI bug....which is inferior to the Jetta in almost every way.
 
2013-02-11 04:22:09 PM  

jchic: ecmoRandomNumbers: Volkswagen has told America to go f*** itself several times. They really ramped it up in the 90s. I think they actually hired a call center in India once to call every Volkswagen owner in America to go fark himself, at least 3 times a week. The most frustrated people I have ever known were American Volkswagen owners.

We had a 2003 Jetta TDI.  Loved that car, great gas mileage, really no issues mechanically, comfortable/easy drive.  Then some idiot ran a stop sign and totaled it.   Now we have a 2004 TDI bug....which is inferior to the Jetta in almost every way.


I had a boyfriend who had a 2002 (i think) Jetta. Brand new. He was driving down the freeway to see me in Phoenix when the sunroof and all the windows slammed OPEN. The whole thing was so violent, that the motors in the doors that operate the windows were still whirring after he stopped the car. The battery died by the time he could get it towed. I can still remember the smell of the burnt motors after he called me to pick him up.
 
2013-02-11 05:08:00 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Volkswagen has told America to go f*** itself several times. They really ramped it up in the 90s. I think they actually hired a call center in India once to call every Volkswagen owner in America to go fark himself, at least 3 times a week. The most frustrated people I have ever known were American Volkswagen owners.


I had a 1984 VW Rabbit GTi...in 1993. Loved that car. The moonroof was handcrank, the tires were fat and low-profile, the stereo was bumping, and I even impressed a girl by jumping on the accelerator and making her bump her head on the headrest.

Then some asshole put salt in the gas tank. Salt! Didn't even use the right crystals. I mean, I guess it worked, it destroyed my engine, but damn.
 
2013-02-11 05:26:51 PM  
Volkswagen will never make a successful "world car" as long as the car maintenance costs continue to be on the level of some luxury marques.
 
2013-02-11 05:31:14 PM  
Ja! Your taillights vill short our unt Africa just like they vill in Europe! Und your vipers will never work at all! Und don't get me started on the seat "heaters", zee will only work in der warm climates.
 
zez
2013-02-11 05:36:57 PM  
So it sounds like VW just invented General Motors, a bunch of the same cars with different badges.
 
2013-02-11 05:44:46 PM  
Isn't that what the Chevy Cruze is?

I'll be honest, I  was hoping this would be about the Dacia Sandero
 
2013-02-11 05:59:44 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Volkswagen has told America to go f*** itself several times. They really ramped it up in the 90s. I think they actually hired a call center in India once to call every Volkswagen owner in America to go fark himself, at least 3 times a week. The most frustrated people I have ever known were American Volkswagen owners.


Love my Jetta TDI wagon. We had a Passat before that with as few electric features as possible because of the history of issues, but we never had a single problem.
 
2013-02-11 06:00:46 PM  
Hybrid deisel awd wagon?
 
2013-02-11 06:00:50 PM  

zez: So it sounds like VW just invented General Motors, a bunch of the same cars with different badges.


The point is actually that they can change more than just the badges without spending a lot of money.
 
2013-02-11 06:03:21 PM  

jaylectricity: Then some asshole put salt in the gas tank. Salt! Didn't even use the right crystals. I mean, I guess it worked, it destroyed my engine, but damn.


How did you know it was salt?
 
2013-02-11 06:04:05 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I had a boyfriend who had a 2002 (i think) Jetta. Brand new. He was driving down the freeway to see me in Phoenix when the sunroof and all the windows slammed OPEN.


My 2011 Jetta hasn't done anything like that yet, but it does have a nice quirk of sometimes not locking the trunk when you push the lock button on the remote. It honks and flashes the lights so you think everything is OK, but if you hit the release button on the trunk lid it will open without sounding the alarm. When you close it again the car honks + flashes a second time and does actually lock it.

Also, one of the car's recalls was for a wiring flaw that could blow a fuse and shut down the engine when you honked the horn.
 
2013-02-11 06:13:22 PM  
Have a friend who had a 2004ish a4, I think it was overall  a pretty sweet ride, until he found about the mandatory serpentine belt change at x miles coming up that would cost a grand. And the fancy retracting cup holders with 20 moving parts each that would inexplicably stop working as intended. And then there was the Battery dieing in it. And then after that was replaced find out the alternator died. And the code you had to put into the stereo everytime you restored power to it. And there was this really nice retractable roll up rear window shade that had a few small pieces that were supposed to be attached and came off. OH and it had a special pouch out the middle of the rear backrest for your skis to fit through. That was super usefull for showing people and telling them you can haul skis in your trunk, right before you put it back to await the next person to show it to.

i.chzbgr.com
 
2013-02-11 06:30:08 PM  
So now cars in every corner of the world will have non-working electric windows?
Brilliant!

/'96 Jetta
//Have replaced all four window regulators, and have one iffy motor now
///Also both front door locks/handles
////Spectacular drivetrain reliability though, 186k without a serious problem
 
2013-02-11 06:56:39 PM  
Had a 96 Golf back in the day. What a gigantic piece of crap. I spent more in maintenance on the car than I paid for it. Once I realized I was spending more in maintenance on a monthly basis than the payment on a new car would cost, the Golf became a cube pretty quickly.

I've had a couple of the new Jettas as rentals in the last year or so. They're even bigger pieces of crap. Who the hell designed a transmission that takes 4-5 seconds to select a gear when you hit the gas? I almost got t boned at a light thanks to that.
 
2013-02-11 07:02:07 PM  
VW North America still hasn't fully recovered from all their top management being killed in Pan Am 103. In Europe VW has a great reputation for quality.

And VW are doing badge engineering right, in the way that British Leyland in the sixties and seventies did exactly wrong. VW use common platforms and components but change the body and styling. BL either made a dozen different brands with only the badge and maybe a bit of chrome being different or banned badge engineering altogether and allowing each brand to waste money designing stuff from scratch when another brand already had something in production. Triumph developing its own V8 for the Stag when Rover had a fantastic, powerful, reliable, compact and light V8 already in production. The Stags V8 unreliability killed the Stag.

People want different brands. Ford had a shot with Jaguar/Land Rover/Volvo, the Jag X type was a Mondeo platform and running gear, but they had to sell them off. Now JLR are doing great under Indian ownership.
 
2013-02-11 07:15:15 PM  

Flint Ironstag: VW North America still hasn't fully recovered from all their top management being killed in Pan Am 103.


What what?
 
2013-02-11 07:17:49 PM  
ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2013-02-11 07:18:11 PM  
I had just assumed that most cars were built this way.  Same chassis globally, with minor difference regionally.

Seems weird that this is just getting traction.
 
2013-02-11 07:26:25 PM  
If I hear more "bad" stories than "good" stories about not even a particular car, but an entire manufacturer, I will be highly reluctant to buy from them, regardless of how modular their design is.

See also: 300C=Charger=Challenger=Magnum. All drive like boats and feel cheap.

Every single body panel and engine component of my car was designed for that car. But that's because I bought a car from the good German car company.
 
2013-02-11 07:26:48 PM  
I thought they did that back in 30's.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-11 07:33:16 PM  
Sister-in-law gave us her '03 Santa Fe when she bought a used '08 Toua Toaur Tore VW Cayenne a few years ago. Even counting upcoming outlays for CV joints and A/C, we got, by far, the best end of the deal. Worst one was getting stuck up in Phoenix at midnight going to pick them up from PHX when a driveshaft in the center diff snapped trying to get back on to I-10 after a pitstop.

/ Eine Welt
// Ein Volk
/// Ein Reparatur-Netzwerk
 
2013-02-11 07:38:53 PM  

Barfmaker: jaylectricity: Then some asshole put salt in the gas tank. Salt! Didn't even use the right crystals. I mean, I guess it worked, it destroyed my engine, but damn.

How did you know it was salt?


After we messed around with the car trying to figure out why the catalytic converter caught on fire, my uncle opened the gas cap and noticed the white crystals sitting in there. I licked my finger and stuck a few crystals to it and tasted it.

Then we pulled out the gas tank and dumped it's contents down the driveway (I still can't believe we did that) and it left salt all over the pavement.
 
2013-02-11 07:47:38 PM  

StopLurkListen: Flint Ironstag: VW North America still hasn't fully recovered from all their top management being killed in Pan Am 103.

What what?


The CEO of VW USA and other top brass were on Pan Am 103. That was over twenty years ago but some people say the company is still suffering. The poor reputation of VW in the US is certainly down to something, since VW is Europe has a great rep.
 
2013-02-11 07:48:36 PM  
Call me when it can haul a ton of horse shiat inbound and tow 4+ tons of horse shiat makers on the outbound trip.
 
2013-02-11 07:50:03 PM  

Victoly: Sister-in-law gave us her '03 Santa Fe when she bought a used '08 Toua Toaur Tore VW Cayenne a few years ago. Even counting upcoming outlays for CV joints and A/C, we got, by far, the best end of the deal. Worst one was getting stuck up in Phoenix at midnight going to pick them up from PHX when a driveshaft in the center diff snapped trying to get back on to I-10 after a pitstop.

/ Eine Welt
// Ein Volk
/// Ein Reparatur-Netzwerk


Ah, the VW Malian rebel
 
2013-02-11 07:51:27 PM  
Veedubs are great cars until you have to actually work on them. My daughter has a 02 Jetta. I'm a mechanical type, having restored (American) many cars over the years. I don't really understand why VW insists on non-standard fasteners/shapes, etc. when designing a car. You really shouldn't have to remove the battery to change a headlight bulb.

/screws in the trunk lid were CARPETED.
//have fun reattaching the trunk release
 
2013-02-11 07:58:44 PM  

pudding7: I had just assumed that most cars were built this way.  Same chassis globally, with minor difference regionally.Seems weird that this is just getting traction.

It's a Bad Thing, especially in the US. Ford went so far off in that direction that their entire lineup is Eurotrash and GM is being eaten away from the inside by the Far East. About the only brand that has gone relatively unscathed by the globalcar disease is Chrysler which has contained that to their Fiat compact car division.

Global car design is how cars become pieces of shiat - where you get bland I-4's for the many, turbochargers as a poor cylinder substitute, and general lowering of quality. Power per dollar goes down while distractionary bling goes up.
 
2013-02-11 08:02:45 PM  

zez: So it sounds like VW just invented General Motors, a bunch of the same cars with different badges.


No, General Motors makes actual cars, not 4-cylinder golfcarts.
 
2013-02-11 08:03:23 PM  

loonatic112358: I'll be honest, I  was hoping this would be about the Dacia Sandero


james may, is that you?
 
2013-02-11 08:10:31 PM  
I have been seriously considering the Jetta TDI wagon. There doesn't appear to be a real alternative produced by any American company.
 
zez
2013-02-11 08:18:09 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: zez: So it sounds like VW just invented General Motors, a bunch of the same cars with different badges.

The point is actually that they can change more than just the badges without spending a lot of money.


So they invented the Chrysler K-Car?
 
2013-02-11 08:30:05 PM  
"modular" is great for the producer, but rarely good for the customer. The more pieces that are interchangeable means the more joints/seams/connections that have to be made. much more prone to wear and tear since its just more potential points of failure. Again, this is good for the company. But what does a consumer care? They are buying one car. its to their advantage that whatever they buy was designed for their specific use. what do they care if the cooling fan in their gulf can fit an A3? They own a gulf.

Not just true for the auto industry, but most manufacturing going out there now, from toys to buildings.

What is stronger, a toy plane made stamped in sheet metal, or one made of Lego?
 
2013-02-11 08:34:37 PM  

zez: Skirl Hutsenreiter: zez: So it sounds like VW just invented General Motors, a bunch of the same cars with different badges.

The point is actually that they can change more than just the badges without spending a lot of money.

So they invented the Chrysler Golfcart?


FTFY
 
2013-02-11 08:34:43 PM  

FlashHarry: james may, is that you?


My hair nor my shirt are that ridiculous, nor is my salary that well compensated
 
2013-02-11 08:35:22 PM  
 
2013-02-11 08:36:40 PM  

LemSkroob: "modular" is great for the producer, but rarely good for the customer. The more pieces that are interchangeable means the more joints/seams/connections that have to be made. much more prone to wear and tear since its just more potential points of failure. Again, this is good for the company. But what does a consumer care? They are buying one car. its to their advantage that whatever they buy was designed for their specific use. what do they care if the cooling fan in their gulf can fit an A3? They own a gulf


It gets interesting in the aftermarket though

Nothing like stuffing the higher power engine from a luxury model, into the econobox
 
2013-02-11 08:37:25 PM  

Barfmaker: jaylectricity: Then some asshole put salt in the gas tank. Salt! Didn't even use the right crystals. I mean, I guess it worked, it destroyed my engine, but damn.

How did you know it was salt?


www.onlygoodmovies.com

*spits* EXXON!
 
2013-02-11 08:37:52 PM  

moefuggenbrew: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/02/04/jeremy_clarkson_s_ p 45_terrifying_ride_in_world_s_tiniest_car_video.html

[www.slate.com image 568x346]


for your safety clarkson has been strapped into the worlds fastest wheelchair.
 
2013-02-11 08:45:01 PM  

grinding_journalist: See also: 300C=Charger=Challenger=Magnum. All drive like boats and feel cheap.


This is you.
s3.vidimg02.popscreen.com
 
2013-02-11 08:56:47 PM  

LemSkroob: "modular" is great for the producer, but rarely good for the customer. The more pieces that are interchangeable means the more joints/seams/connections that have to be made. much more prone to wear and tear since its just more potential points of failure. Again, this is good for the company. But what does a consumer care? They are buying one car. its to their advantage that whatever they buy was designed for their specific use. what do they care if the cooling fan in their gulf can fit an A3? They own a gulf.

Not just true for the auto industry, but most manufacturing going out there now, from toys to buildings.

What is stronger, a toy plane made stamped in sheet metal, or one made of Lego?


The bits that are modular have joints anyway. Name any car where the engine and the chassis are one bit of metal.

And the advantage to the consumer is a component will be tested and engineered to be reliable and then used in millions of cars. The consumer gets better reliability and lower cost and better availibility. If the same fan is used in a dozen cars then the dealer, and spare parts stores, will have it in stock.
Look at my example of Triumph developing their own V8 for the Stag. It was unreliable and killed the car. Had they used the Rover V8 the owners would have benefited hugely.
 
2013-02-11 09:01:51 PM  

sethstorm: pudding7: I had just assumed that most cars were built this way.  Same chassis globally, with minor difference regionally.Seems weird that this is just getting traction.It's a Bad Thing, especially in the US. Ford went so far off in that direction that their entire lineup is Eurotrash and GM is being eaten away from the inside by the Far East. About the only brand that has gone relatively unscathed by the globalcar disease is Chrysler which has contained that to their Fiat compact car division.

Global car design is how cars become pieces of shiat - where you get bland I-4's for the many, turbochargers as a poor cylinder substitute, and general lowering of quality. Power per dollar goes down while distractionary bling goes up.


My Subaru Lesbian Assault Wagon was made in 1987. It's got over 300,000 miles on it, and it gets testy on me in really wet weather, but goddammit -- you couldn't kill that boxer engine if you tried.
 
2013-02-11 09:09:55 PM  

grinding_journalist: See also: 300C=Charger=Challenger=Magnum. All drive like boats and feel cheap.


Don't get the "secretary special" V6 in them and that will change for the better.  On the other hand, the global car makes every car worse than any North American, non-transplant land yacht.
 
2013-02-11 09:10:05 PM  

sethstorm: It's a Bad Thing, especially in the US. Ford went so far off in that direction that their entire lineup is Eurotrash and GM is being eaten away from the inside by the Far East. About the only brand that has gone relatively unscathed by the globalcar disease is Chrysler which has contained that to their Fiat compact car division.


Fords and GMs in the '80s and '90s were unreliable and horrible to drive.  Half of them were huge boats with underpowered gas-guzzling v8s and suspension that felt like a waterbed.  The other half were attempts to compete with Japanese cars that ended up falling short, and then falling to bits.

I'd much rather a current Mondeo or an Insignia than a Taurus.

/But really, give me an Escort Cosworth!
 
2013-02-11 09:24:47 PM  

Flint Ironstag: The poor reputation of VW in the US is certainly down to something, since VW is Europe has a great rep.


Maybe it's the that a good % of VWs develop lots of expensive problems early in their lives?  And, by 'life', I mean on the order of 200,000 miles.  Hell, any car that can't go at least 100k without major repair is a piece of shiat these days.

I remember once talking to a German guy about this.  He thought it was normal to need a transmission rebuild every 50,000 miles, and didn't understand why I thought a car like that is junk...

(Ok, who besides Chrysler and VW are still that bad?)
 
2013-02-11 09:25:12 PM  

zez: So it sounds like VW just invented General Motors, a bunch of the same cars with different badges.


Exactly. VW is doing the exact same thing GM has been doing for decades, except they are being lauded as visionaries while GM got skewered for "badge engineering". Same thing happened as VM was expanding their brands while GM was being forced to jettison theirs.

It's Wall Street generated Bullshiat.
 
2013-02-11 09:28:20 PM  

sethstorm: grinding_journalist: See also: 300C=Charger=Challenger=Magnum. All drive like boats and feel cheap.

Don't get the "secretary special" V6 in them and that will change for the better.


Oh, even with the 8s, they're cheap souless boats.  Chrysler couldn't hit the spot with the build quality and NVH.

On the other hand, the global car makes every car worse than any North American, non-transplant land yacht.

Ford finally killed the Crown Vic.  Good riddance, except now you can't tell a cop car from a mile away anymore.  Seriously, what was so great about land yachts?  They handled like crap, rode like crap, got crap mileage, were tacky as hell, and slow as crap.  The only people who are nostalgic for them are old folks with 1 foot in the grave.
 
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