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(BBC)   Scientists who obviously never had a dog before surprised by experiments that show that dogs are more likely to disobey their masters when they think humans are not watching   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 57
    More: Fail, dogs, animal cognition, University of Portsmouth, sniffer dog  
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1424 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Feb 2013 at 3:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-11 02:51:20 PM
My dog is ALWAYS surprised by "experiments"
 
2013-02-11 03:17:29 PM
And cats just don't give a f*ck if a human is watching or not
 
2013-02-11 03:38:49 PM
Dogs are pack animals with an instinctive understanding of hierarchy within the pack. So yeah, if they know the alpha is somebody else then they know to disobey the alpha means bad things. If the alpha isn't around, well, one can get away with more stuff.

My dog doesn't try to get away with anything when I'm around. When it's just my wife at home, well, she might push the limits a bit (she = the dog and not the wife, you morons). I guess the dog remembers who picked her up from the shelter and brought her home.
 
2013-02-11 03:39:20 PM
Next thing you know they'll find evidence that the dogs are better behaved when they think you have food for them.
 
2013-02-11 03:41:34 PM

jehovahs witness protection: My dog is ALWAYS surprised by "experiments"


I'd be pretty surprised if my dog was running experiments as well.  I mean, how do you hold the beakers with paws and such?
 
2013-02-11 03:45:35 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And cats just don't give a f*ck if a human is watching or not


THIS!!!
 
2013-02-11 03:49:53 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And cats just don't give a f*ck if a human is watching or not


Not always. My cat waits until I'm done cooking dinner and we're in the living room before she jumps up on the counter to see if I left anything she can eat. She won't do that if we're in there watching. We just got a video baby monitor for the upcoming baby, and I set it up in the kitchen. Sure enough, she hops up on the counter and I yell out her name. She stopped dead in her tracks, looked around like, "WTF?" Then jumped down and ran into her bedroom.
 
2013-02-11 03:57:42 PM
Experiment: Can you trust a dog to watch your food?

dl.dropbox.com

Result: No.

/Step 3, gettin paid!
 
F42
2013-02-11 04:02:27 PM
It has always been assumed only humans had this ability."

It's amazing how much stupid shiat the scientific community just take for granted based on nothing more than their own sense of superiority.

I've seen ants use tools, ANTS! The community is impressed when a dolphin does it.
 
2013-02-11 04:02:33 PM

akula: (she = the dog and not the wife, you morons).


Your wife is male or non-gender?

/NTTIAWWT
 
2013-02-11 04:05:16 PM
My dog knows that she's not supposed to into the garbage, but if we're not watching she'll do it every chace she gets.  What's funny is that she will act guilty before we even find out she broke the rules.

My dog has a conscience, just no self control.
 
2013-02-11 04:06:45 PM

severedtoe: My dog knows that she's not supposed to into the garbage, but if we're not watching she'll do it every chace she gets.  What's funny is that she will act guilty before we even find out she broke the rules.

My dog has a conscience, just no self control.


So she's Catholic?
/ducks
 
2013-02-11 04:10:32 PM
My dog is aware of human sight limitations.  If I am walking through a lighted room, he just lets me step over him, but if it is dark he gets out of the way, so I don't step on him.
 
2013-02-11 04:17:10 PM
Dr. Sherlock's making the rounds today, I see.

severedtoe: What's funny is that she will act guilty before we even find out she broke the rules.


Cat food is for cats, dog food is for the dog.  Dog knows this.  Dog ducks and runs for cover on a fairly regular basis before I even see that the cat food dishes have been licked dry in a way that the cats just don't do.  Little bastard.

/Other than that, he's alright, actually.
 
2013-02-11 04:25:43 PM

F42: It has always been assumed only humans had this ability."

It's amazing how much stupid shiat the scientific community just take for granted based on nothing more than their own sense of superiority.

I've seen ants use tools, ANTS! The community is impressed when a dolphin does it.


I'll read the study but I'm sure it's more nonsense. I have a colleague who believes in the "mirror test" as evidence that animals don't have a sense of "self". What a crock. I swear that psychology attracts the worst of the worst. What that makes me, I shudder to think.
 
2013-02-11 04:27:09 PM

severedtoe: My dog knows that she's not supposed to into the garbage, but if we're not watching she'll do it every chace she gets.  What's funny is that she will act guilty before we even find out she broke the rules.

My dog has a conscience, just no self control.


Mine's the same way. We get home and he's crouched as low to the ground as he can possibly get, belly dragging across the carpet, making the biggest puppy dog eyes he can muster, as he slowly hauls himself over to greet us. We call it "the guilty crawl" and start surveying the apartment for the latest round of damage
 
2013-02-11 04:29:35 PM
I wouldn't own a cat on a bet/on a dare.

But then I don't like cat hair in my food or cats on the kitchen counter or dining room table or sniffing around the stove as I make dinner or sleeping on top of the tv/stereo/computer or an animal that craps in the house.

However if you've got no problem with those kinds of things have at it.
 
2013-02-11 04:36:52 PM
i1151.photobucket.com
Obligatory.
 
2013-02-11 04:39:13 PM

jaylectricity: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And cats just don't give a f*ck if a human is watching or not

Not always. My cat waits until I'm done cooking dinner and we're in the living room before she jumps up on the counter to see if I left anything she can eat. She won't do that if we're in there watching. We just got a video baby monitor for the upcoming baby, and I set it up in the kitchen. Sure enough, she hops up on the counter and I yell out her name. She stopped dead in her tracks, looked around like, "WTF?" Then jumped down and ran into her bedroom.


My cats usually keep in mind that they live and die by my favor. It's all about asserting dominance.

/I bite back
 
2013-02-11 04:42:09 PM
My dog knows perfectly well when we're not looking.  She freakin' WAITS for us to turn our backs or get distracted and she'll slink off into the laundry room to eat the cats' food or start gnawing on a shoe one of us left downstairs.

She knows she's being bad and will instantly crouch and do the "guilty belly-crawl" as soon as she's discovered.

In this past week, she's torn apart a sneaker, one of my purses, and the handles of the Calphalon kitchen shears.

/1-yo Great Dane rescue
//We've only had her for 2 months.  Housebreaking and stopping her from jumping on people were the priorities.
 
2013-02-11 04:45:04 PM

nmemkha: akula: (she = the dog and not the wife, you morons).

Your wife is male or non-gender?

/NTTIAWWT


Why am I not surprised a Farker was able to deliberately misconstrue something I tried to clarify, and said Farker managed to do so in a humorous manner?

/You magnificent bastard, you...
 
2013-02-11 04:45:04 PM
What a load of horse shiat.

"It has always been assumed only humans blah blah blah."

If your 'scientist' says that and wants money, fire them. Those assumptions come from an age when the Bible was considered hard evidence and vivisection on live animals without anesthesia was acceptable because "They can't feel pain."

If your scientist holds to them, they suck and they are wasting your time, money, and will draw horribly bad conclusions with poor methodology and a severe case of wheel reinvention. Best hit the job market and find yourself a real biologist.
 
2013-02-11 04:45:55 PM
I remember a long time ago when my dog was still alive, i'd let him roam really far ahead, like he'd be milling about at a stream for something, but i noticed even though he was still so far away, he'd be looking up at me out of the corner of his eye, always.... Like making sure whether i'm observing his behavior or not.
 
2013-02-11 04:47:23 PM

entropy--: My dog is aware of human sight limitations.  If I am walking through a lighted room, he just lets me step over him, but if it is dark he gets out of the way, so I don't step on him.


My dog's not. She can't understand that if she lies in a dark hallway she might get stepped on.
 
2013-02-11 04:49:42 PM

ladyfortuna: My cats usually keep in mind that they live and die by my favor. It's all about asserting dominance.

/I bite back


Like, I said...I never had any problem until my girlfriend got involved. Yesterdaythe GF was eating some chips and dip and the cat is all over her. I keep swatting at her, pushing her out of the way, and she keeps running back. I pick her up and carry her into a different room. As soon as I put her down she bolts back to my girlfriend.

It's funny, but I would hate to have company over and have the cat trying to climb on somebody's lap.
 
2013-02-11 04:50:10 PM
Dogs sensing humans can't see in the dark.  Bullcrap.

Dogs seeing that humans are not displaying the same visual / audio / smell cues to their "limits pushing"  is far more likely.  It's no different than when you, the alpha, are no longer paying attention.

This is precisely why you train your dog to understand you have eyes in the back of your head.  Now, mine only misbehaves after she watches me walk out the door.  I can see her rubbing her paws together as I pull out of the driveway.
 
2013-02-11 04:52:16 PM
These abilities often fall under  "Theory of Mind" notions. For example certain animals that hide food won't hide it when they know others are watching, because they have some notion of the minds or intentions of other animals.

There seems to be a major step up from knowing others have minds to knowing that you yourself have one. Knowing that your image in a mirror is actually you is the common test for this ability - one passed by chimps, elephants, dolphins but not dogs and cats.
 
2013-02-11 04:52:45 PM
Denver certainly prefers to sneak cat treats when his owner's not home.
 
2013-02-11 04:55:51 PM

DragonIV: Dogs sensing humans can't see in the dark.  Bullcrap.

Dogs seeing that humans are not displaying the same visual / audio / smell cues to their "limits pushing"  is far more likely.  It's no different than when you, the alpha, are no longer paying attention.

This is precisely why you train your dog to understand you have eyes in the back of your head.  Now, mine only misbehaves after she watches me walk out the door.  I can see her rubbing her paws together as I pull out of the driveway.


Dogs- they're like kids, except they smell better.
 
2013-02-11 05:01:50 PM
Way to miss the point of the article, submitard.
 
2013-02-11 05:08:56 PM

HairBolus: Knowing that your image in a mirror is actually you is the common test for this ability


One that's got some fundamental flaws when you consider the differences in human and animal sensory abilities.
 
2013-02-11 05:13:37 PM

INeedAName: Dogs- they're like kids, except they smell better.


My dog smells awful.
 
2013-02-11 05:31:10 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And cats just don't give a f*ck if a human is watching or not


It's not that cats don't care, they're just too stupid to realize you're trying to communicate in any way.
 
2013-02-11 06:36:57 PM

taglius: INeedAName: Dogs- they're like kids, except they smell better.

My dog smells awful.


If you have kids, i bet they smell worse.
 
2013-02-11 06:40:18 PM
My wife doesn't try to get away with anything when I'm around. She will wait until I'm done cooking dinner and we're in the living room before she jumps up on the counter to see if I left anything she can eat. She won't do that if we're in there watching. She usually keeps in mind that she lives and dies by my favor. It's all about asserting dominance.
 
2013-02-11 06:44:03 PM

picturescrazy: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And cats just don't give a f*ck if a human is watching or not

It's not that cats don't care, they're just too stupid to realize you're trying to communicate in any way.


No, Mollusk had it right.  A cat can look you dead in the eyes when you tell it not to do something, understand perfectly well what you mean, and do it anyway.  They're still fun, and make great pets, just not in the same way dogs do.

/I like both
//bi-petsual
 
2013-02-11 06:51:34 PM
I have seen my dog tippy toe, trying not to make noise.  She'll do this when she thinks I am not looking and wants to go to a place where she is not supposed to be.  I locked eyes with my daughter and I said "Did you see that?".  My daughter recognize the different walking pattern too and we spent some time trying to get it on video, but the dog wasn't falling for it.  Damn dog.  It was one of the funniest things I have ever seen.
 
2013-02-11 07:01:46 PM
Interesting how some dog people are always so defensive, and quick to try and say cats are worse when cats aren't even brought up. You don't see cat people acting that way.
 
2013-02-11 07:17:40 PM
My mom used a spray bottle to train one of our cats not to jump on the counters.

Eventually that cat would never jump on the counters...when my mom was around.

I didn't care though so she'd jump on the counters if it was just me in the house.
 
2013-02-11 08:34:24 PM

HairBolus: These abilities often fall under  "Theory of Mind" notions. For example certain animals that hide food won't hide it when they know others are watching, because they have some notion of the minds or intentions of other animals.

There seems to be a major step up from knowing others have minds to knowing that you yourself have one. Knowing that your image in a mirror is actually you is the common test for this ability - one passed by chimps, elephants, dolphins but not dogs and cats.


Dogs and cats tend to ignore mirrors. That alone seems to me to be that they recognize themselves in the mirror. Our newest kitten was in our bedroom and was fascinated by my reflection in the mirror. She kept looking at me, then my reflection, back and forth for what seemed like 5 minutes, never once acknowledging the cat that was in the mirror also. My point is, if they don't recognize themselves in the mirror, why don't they react as if they see another cat? It was as if when she looked in the mirror, she realized my reflection didn't look exactly the same as I looked, and kept looking back and forth at the differences. Contrast that with the way birds react to mirrors. Male cardinals will attack the other male cardinal they see in the mirror, and repeat this action daily all summer long until you cover your car side mirrors.
 
2013-02-11 08:47:25 PM

JRoo: My mom used a spray bottle to train one of our cats not to jump on the counters.

Eventually that cat would never jump on the counters...when my mom was around.

I didn't care though so she'd jump on the counters if it was just me in the house.


I've found that keeping the counters clean helps too.

Make it a lot of trouble for no reward, and they'll go find something else to do.

Plus if you're leaving food out or not cleaning before and after use you're just begging for trouble on general principles.
 
2013-02-11 09:14:19 PM

WickerNipple: My wife doesn't try to get away with anything when I'm around. She will wait until I'm done cooking dinner and we're in the living room before she jumps up on the counter to see if I left anything she can eat. She won't do that if we're in there watching. She usually keeps in mind that she lives and dies by my favor. It's all about asserting dominance.


:D nice

I actually wanted to add to that but my prof dismissed class and I had to finish the sentence and post before the cretins behind me could read over my shoulder.

They keep it in mind until I'm out of the room at which point I have to listen carefully. They don't do it often but occasionally I'll find one crouched over dirty dishes in the sink with a guilty posture, and then he'll flee while I yell at him. My older cat once jumped on my lap while I was eating at my computer and nearly knocked my whole plate on the floor, and it was definitely on purpose. Hasn't done it since though out of fear...
 
2013-02-11 09:21:43 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Make it a lot of trouble for no reward, and they'll go find something else to do.


Yeah, mine hit the jackpot a few times. A pan full of bacon grease, a slice of pizza, an open container of sour cream.
 
2013-02-11 09:54:58 PM

jaylectricity: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Make it a lot of trouble for no reward, and they'll go find something else to do.

Yeah, mine hit the jackpot a few times. A pan full of bacon grease, a slice of pizza, an open container of sour cream.


Our cat liked to lick the butter,
 
2013-02-11 09:59:36 PM
I know we're getting WAY off topic, but I recently discovered I can give my cat raw chicken breast and it doesn't bother her in the least. This is a cat that occasionally throws up a can of Friskies.
 
2013-02-11 10:07:17 PM
My cats knew they shouldn't get on the kitchen counter so they'd wait until nobody was in the kitchen to jump up there. I'd know they had jumped up on the counter because I could hear them when they jumped down.

My dog when I was a kid couldn't be left on a rope because he would chew through the rope once he thought nobody was looking.
 
2013-02-11 10:22:07 PM
Punishment doesn't work of the being thinks it won't get caught.
 
2013-02-12 12:55:09 AM

MarkEC: HairBolus: These abilities often fall under  "Theory of Mind" notions. For example certain animals that hide food won't hide it when they know others are watching, because they have some notion of the minds or intentions of other animals.

There seems to be a major step up from knowing others have minds to knowing that you yourself have one. Knowing that your image in a mirror is actually you is the common test for this ability - one passed by chimps, elephants, dolphins but not dogs and cats.

Dogs and cats tend to ignore mirrors. That alone seems to me to be that they recognize themselves in the mirror. Our newest kitten was in our bedroom and was fascinated by my reflection in the mirror. She kept looking at me, then my reflection, back and forth for what seemed like 5 minutes, never once acknowledging the cat that was in the mirror also. My point is, if they don't recognize themselves in the mirror, why don't they react as if they see another cat? It was as if when she looked in the mirror, she realized my reflection didn't look exactly the same as I looked, and kept looking back and forth at the differences. Contrast that with the way birds react to mirrors. Male cardinals will attack the other male cardinal they see in the mirror, and repeat this action daily all summer long until you cover your car side mirrors.


In my experience, my dogs and cats have been mystified by the mirror the first time they encounter it (looking behind it, etc) but then they 'figure it out'. Of course dogs try to get away with stuff when the alpha is gone, it's canine nature; as for cats, they are the emo kids of pets, acting as if you are beneath them yet constantly seeking attention. They can both learn though and definitely have enough 'personality' that they'll misbehave on purpose given the right motivation.


/My kitty knows better than to sleep on my feet when I'm in bed
//I only had to blanket-launch her twice before she caught on.
 
2013-02-12 12:58:39 AM

sandi_fish: I have seen my dog tippy toe, trying not to make noise.  She'll do this when she thinks I am not looking and wants to go to a place where she is not supposed to be.  I locked eyes with my daughter and I said "Did you see that?".  My daughter recognize the different walking pattern too and we spent some time trying to get it on video, but the dog wasn't falling for it.  Damn dog.  It was one of the funniest things I have ever seen.


Used to have a garbage hound dachsund. She would wait in bed until she thought everyone was asleep. Then she'd crawl slowly to the edge of the bed. She would slink until she got to the hallway, at which point she would haul ass to the garbage can.

Clever girl.
 
2013-02-12 03:51:38 AM

DragonIV: Dogs sensing humans can't see in the dark.  Bullcrap.


More like.

"I've been stepped on, it is not fun.  I will attempt to avoid that in the future."

Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that out, but some domestic animals don't quite get even that much.

I think it's all the inbreeding and keeping the lines pure.  Not necessarily retardation, but the freak loss of some healthy reason winds up in a breed, and it's continued indefinitely because it has limited breeding options.

MarkEC: why don't they react as if they see another cat?


Some do.  Seen cats nuzzle their reflection and even try to fight it.  Part of that may come from glass that they can see through so they know what's on the other side is "real".
Some also, maybe because of a herd mentality, sense familiarity and largely ignore it even if they greatly dislike all other cats.  Remember that smell plays a large role for these animals as well.  It may be that absense of those indicators means it's not a threat and don't desire a fight, so they just let it be.

Same as tempting cats and dogs with a laser light.  Some don't give a fark and will give you a look that says "You think I'll fall for that?  Dipshiat."
Some will chase it and be obviously confused that it has no smell or mass and the ability to disappear and teleport, but continue to chase it anyhow.
Some will give up after a bit, maybe even give you a look like "I know you have something to do with this..."  but 5 minutes later will fall for it again for a bit.
Some tenacious bastards will attempt to fight the shiat out of it for hours on end figure that it comes from the silver thing, and at times try to get it out.
Some of these also hear the rattle(Ie keychain lights) when you pick it up and think it's time to hunt, Ie they won't put the connection to you, just the rattle to the dot, so they come running on the lookout for that arch enemy, The Bright Dot when they hear the keychain get lifted.

My dog will bob in his water dish if I place it at the dot at the bottom.  Incredibly entertaining up until he figures it has him beat and he'll slink away defeated and confused, dripping water, to go lie behind a chair and sigh.
 
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