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(NPR)   Can you spot the gorilla in the x-ray? Not to worry, 83% of radiologists couldn't either   (npr.org) divider line 79
    More: Scary, radiologists, gorilla suits, gorilla suit, gorillas  
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14392 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Feb 2013 at 4:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-11 02:45:15 PM
I don't think that's an X-Ray, subby.
 
2013-02-11 02:48:41 PM
It looks like that gorilla has cancer.
 
2013-02-11 02:50:34 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-11 03:07:24 PM
My god, you've got monkey brain!
 
2013-02-11 03:08:36 PM
That looks more like a sasquatch.
 
2013-02-11 03:26:44 PM
That would suck if you have a tumor shaped like a gorilla.
 
2013-02-11 04:10:12 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: My god, you've got monkey brain!


Not often to be found in Washington, DC
 
2013-02-11 04:18:16 PM
This is why sleepy people and phone in the car people pull out in front of cyclists and motorcycles all the time - their brain is saying, "Is a car coming?, No, ok then, proceed.' Then they pull right out in front of the non-car object despite looking right at it. I would not at all be surprised if sleepy or otherwise distracted driving kills as many people as drunk drivers.
 
2013-02-11 04:20:09 PM
I can't tell if that's subby's mom...or my wife.Subby,are you my son?
 
2013-02-11 04:23:26 PM
This would be scary if I was concerned about a possible gorilla infection.
 
2013-02-11 04:24:54 PM
I remember getting some people to watch that gorilla video before, a couple of them were totally convinced it was a trick and that there were two different videos, one with the gorilla and one without.
 
2013-02-11 04:27:07 PM
Mr. Jones, I'm sorry to say... but... your lung jimmies have been rustled
 
2013-02-11 04:27:27 PM
I strongly suspect a significant number of those radiologists assumed someone was playing a joke on them and merely ignored the gorilla.
 
2013-02-11 04:33:51 PM
movieboozer.com

Quick, get an x-ray
 
2013-02-11 04:35:18 PM

RexTalionis: I don't think that's an X-Ray, subby.


Close enough; CT scans do use X-rays.

/not subby
 
2013-02-11 04:37:28 PM

JohnBigBootay: This is why sleepy people and phone in the car people pull out in front of cyclists and motorcycles all the time - their brain is saying, "Is a car coming?, No, ok then, proceed.' Then they pull right out in front of the non-car object despite looking right at it. I would not at all be surprised if sleepy or otherwise distracted driving kills as many people as drunk drivers.


What accounts for cyclists blowing stop signs, causing cross-traffic to jam on their brakes?
 
2013-02-11 04:41:42 PM
No gorilla ever gave anyone cancer, so I don't care if the radiologist spots it.
 
2013-02-11 04:41:55 PM
I read the article, then I watched the video, knowing full well what was going to happen.  Interestingly enough, I counted correctly the number of passes.  Even saw the gorilla walk through.  I did notice, not the suit, but just a man wearing black and that he walked in from one direction and out the other.  It wasn't until the replay that I saw that he actually stopped and pounded his chest before moving on.
 
2013-02-11 04:43:59 PM

BarkingUnicorn: No gorilla ever gave anyone cancer, so I don't care if the radiologist spots it.


That's what the gorillas want you to think.
 
2013-02-11 04:44:15 PM
Because they're not looking for a gorilla. It doesn't excuse them, but that's the reason.

And that looks like a ct scan to me.
 
2013-02-11 04:44:20 PM
Maybe they did spot it and just ignored it because it's stupid.
 
2013-02-11 04:50:57 PM

naughtyrev: [i.imgur.com image 366x270]


There is no Easter Bunny!
 
2013-02-11 04:51:16 PM

madgonad: Quick, get an x-ray


I came for Altered States. Now if I could just find some peyote...
 
2013-02-11 04:56:31 PM
I failed to spot the gorilla, even though I knew it was there, until the text directed me into the top right.

Of course, it could be the onset of senility, but I'd like to think otherwise - at least it isn't the onset of wossname, er thingy, oldness.
 
2013-02-11 04:58:15 PM
Once you see it you can't unsee it.
 
2013-02-11 05:02:48 PM
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-11 05:04:29 PM
The Gorilla in the X-ray sounds like an episode of Bones.
 
2013-02-11 05:06:26 PM

JohnAnnArbor: What accounts for cyclists blowing stop signs, causing cross-traffic to jam on their brakes?


Those are just dick cyclists. Much like with drivers, most aren't but some are. I drive  a car and a motorcycle and I bike so I've seen all the different scenarios from every perspective. I don't even mind the dicks so much - I mean they have to live with being a dick all the time and that has to suck. It's the oblivious people that almost kill me on a routine basis and they don't even realize it. My theory is they are just sleepy or distracted and didn't even see me because their brain was looking for a car and I wasn't in a car.
 
2013-02-11 05:07:30 PM
 
2013-02-11 05:10:06 PM
Well now I have to wonder: How many tiny lung-gorillas have I been unintentionally ignoring?
 
2013-02-11 05:10:43 PM
If there was a disease which caused gorillas to grow inside my body, I'd bet the radiologists would find it in their pictures.

Since there isn't such a disease, I'm not concerned about it.
 
2013-02-11 05:24:53 PM

Embden.Meyerhof: If there was a disease which caused gorillas to grow inside my body, I'd bet the radiologists would find it in their pictures.

Since there isn't such a disease, I'm not concerned about it.


You should be concerned.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15995100

Here is a case study where a guidewire was left in a patient, and despite being clearly visible on three x-rays and a CT scan, every doctor missed it. I first heard about that case study in  The Invisible Gorilla by Chabris and Simons. It's an excellent book. The problem is not gorillas. The problem is missing things that you're not specifically looking for.
 
2013-02-11 05:30:01 PM
Saw this the other night on the Brain Games shows on National Geographic channel.
 
2013-02-11 05:43:29 PM

ITGreen: AdolfOliverPanties: My god, you've got monkey brain!

Not often to be found in Washington, DC


Is that what we ate?
 
2013-02-11 05:48:27 PM
That's why I get my CAT scans taken here...

i236.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-11 05:48:45 PM

JohnBigBootay: This is why sleepy people and phone in the car people pull out in front of cyclists and motorcycles all the time - their brain is saying, "Is a car coming?, No, ok then, proceed.' Then they pull right out in front of the non-car object despite looking right at it. I would not at all be surprised if sleepy or otherwise distracted driving kills as many people as drunk drivers.


Oh we see them fine, we just don't care.
 
2013-02-11 05:52:34 PM

Raoul Eaton: This would be scary if I was concerned about a possible gorilla infection.


that shiat is bananas
 
2013-02-11 05:57:55 PM
img59.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-11 05:58:53 PM
I SEEN IT!!!!
 
2013-02-11 06:00:29 PM

jehovahs witness protection: Saw this the other night on the Brain Games shows on National Geographic channel.


Thanks for letting us all know!
+2 internets for you.
Awesome.
 
2013-02-11 06:01:19 PM

JohnAnnArbor: JohnBigBootay: This is why sleepy people and phone in the car people pull out in front of cyclists and motorcycles all the time - their brain is saying, "Is a car coming?, No, ok then, proceed.' Then they pull right out in front of the non-car object despite looking right at it. I would not at all be surprised if sleepy or otherwise distracted driving kills as many people as drunk drivers.

What accounts for cyclists blowing stop signs, causing cross-traffic to jam on their brakes?


Same concept, they are looking for people to impress with how stylin they look, not the other road traffic or its signage.
 
2013-02-11 06:19:04 PM

jehovahs witness protection: Saw this the other night on the Brain Games shows on National Geographic channel.


Brain Games? The thing that used to show up as filler on HBO?
 
2013-02-11 06:30:34 PM

red5ish: [img59.imageshack.us image 800x528]


If I was a UFO quack I would use that image in all my books.
 
2013-02-11 06:40:15 PM

Great Janitor: I read the article, then I watched the video, knowing full well what was going to happen.  Interestingly enough, I counted correctly the number of passes.  Even saw the gorilla walk through.  I did notice, not the suit, but just a man wearing black and that he walked in from one direction and out the other.  It wasn't until the replay that I saw that he actually stopped and pounded his chest before moving on.


The first time I saw that video I didn't know about the gorilla and received the standard instruction to count the passes.  Though I thought to myself that something else must be going on, I am mildly embarrassed to admit that I did not notice the gorilla at all.
 
2013-02-11 06:53:19 PM

miniflea: Great Janitor: I read the article, then I watched the video, knowing full well what was going to happen.  Interestingly enough, I counted correctly the number of passes.  Even saw the gorilla walk through.  I did notice, not the suit, but just a man wearing black and that he walked in from one direction and out the other.  It wasn't until the replay that I saw that he actually stopped and pounded his chest before moving on.

The first time I saw that video I didn't know about the gorilla and received the standard instruction to count the passes.  Though I thought to myself that something else must be going on, I am mildly embarrassed to admit that I did not notice the gorilla at all.


Most people don't. Radiologists or otherwise.

I saw a really good documentary about this that included Apollo Robbins as well as the Unseen Gorilla Researcher Guy I Forget Your Name.  ...

Found it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyeLF_a2iW0

GREAT documentary, especially if you're currently pissed you didn't see the damn thing.  It's more than likely not you.  Just, you know, the way your brain works.  I knew about the Unseen Gorilla Research, the SO didn't, and even though I did significantly better than he did, there were some tests I completely totally failed at... and I *knew* I was being tricked somehow.

/shrug
//like I said, it's a good watch
 
2013-02-11 06:54:10 PM
Not really a documentary, just... goddamit, I don't know, non-fiction TV special from National Geographic.  Whatever.

/tired
 
2013-02-11 06:54:12 PM

JohnAnnArbor: What accounts for cyclists blowing stop signs, causing cross-traffic to jam on their brakes?


If you have the right of way and they don't? Fark 'em. Let he who lacks the right of way proceed at his own peril.
 
2013-02-11 07:08:08 PM
I saw the gorilla the first time I watched the video. Turns out ADD people are far more likely to see it. Also, squirrels.
 
2013-02-11 07:22:24 PM

Raoul Eaton: This would be scary if I was concerned about a possible gorilla infection.


You should be concerned anyway.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15995100

Here is a case study where a guidewire was left in a patient, and despite being clearly visible on three x-rays and a CT scan, every doctor missed it. I first heard about that case study in The Invisible Gorilla by Chabris and Simons. It's an excellent book.
 
2013-02-11 07:31:12 PM
What you might look like with a little gorilla in you...

atoast2toast.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-11 07:57:37 PM

djscram: Turns out ADD people are far more likely to see it. Also, squirrels.


imageshack.us
 
2013-02-11 08:05:14 PM
Damn that was a weird double post. I tried submitting the comment once and it refused to load. I opened the window in another screen, refreshed the comments, and the comment wasn't there. So, I closed the original window and tried again. Twenty minutes later, my original comment appears. That's why I quoted somebody from further up the thread the second time: I had tried making that comment first. :-/
 
2013-02-11 08:17:35 PM

JohnBigBootay: This is why sleepy people and phone in the car people pull out in front of cyclists and motorcycles all the time - their brain is saying, "Is a car coming?, No, ok then, proceed.' Then they pull right out in front of the non-car object despite looking right at it. I would not at all be surprised if sleepy or otherwise distracted driving kills as many people as drunk drivers.


Whoa.  I actually came in make this same observation.

\often a pedestrian
\\drivers just don't seem to notice us peds, even when we're crossing the street in broad daylight in a designated crosswalk with permission to cross.
 
2013-02-11 09:34:45 PM

JohnBigBootay: Those are just dick cyclists.


As a pedestrian I've been put in danger from a car perhaps three or four times in my life while doing something legal like crossing a street while the walk sign is up.  I've been nearly run down by cyclists not paying attention three times and actually had one collide with me once in the last _month_.  And that's without getting into their interactions with non-foot traffic, had a major wreck with a totaled car caused by one blowing a light outside my apartment a couple months ago.  Didn't hurt the cyclist, of course, note that the actual drunk driver never dies in DUI accidents either.

I think he may have a point about cyclists typically being more of a traffic hazard than motorists is what I'm getting at here.

//Should probably require a license and insurance for using bikes on public roads, honestly.
 
2013-02-11 10:09:26 PM
Fun fact: I used to have a tooth in my maxillary sinus and no less than five doctors and dentists missed it over three years' worth of scans and x-rays. The dentist who finally did spot it facepalmed for about two hours straight.
 
2013-02-11 10:38:48 PM

djscram: I saw the gorilla the first time I watched the video. Turns out ADD people are far more likely to see it. Also, squirrels.


Fer realz?
 
2013-02-11 10:43:49 PM

MrEricSir: Obligatory


That was posted in the article.  Which I'm assuming you didn't read.
 
2013-02-11 11:01:38 PM
"Well, Mr. Mibney, we've analyzed your lung scans, and we have good news and bad news. The good news is, it isn't cancer..."
 
2013-02-11 11:16:49 PM

meanmutton: ITGreen: AdolfOliverPanties: My god, you've got monkey brain!

Not often to be found in Washington, DC

Is that what we ate?


MRS. PEACOCK WAS A MAN?!
 
2013-02-11 11:29:59 PM
Actually, the radiologist  should see the gorilla. They were told to review the scans for the presence of lung nodules. The gorilla obscures a portion of the lung field, so the radiologists that didn't see it failed to completely evaluate the lungs.
 
2013-02-11 11:41:32 PM

jack21221: Embden.Meyerhof: If there was a disease which caused gorillas to grow inside my body, I'd bet the radiologists would find it in their pictures.

Since there isn't such a disease, I'm not concerned about it.

You should be concerned.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15995100

Here is a case study where a guidewire was left in a patient, and despite being clearly visible on three x-rays and a CT scan, every doctor missed it. I first heard about that case study in  The Invisible Gorilla by Chabris and Simons. It's an excellent book. The problem is not gorillas. The problem is missing things that you're not specifically looking for.


The thing that my mind questions is how can you miss it if you are looking all over the X-ray for something that's causing symptoms? I read the headline, immediately looked at the X-ray and tried to figure out what it was and what was the "gorilla." (I assumed "gorilla" was a metaphor, not an actual gorilla.) It took me a couple seconds to scan from the left side to right and see it.

Yet another reason to get more doctors into the medical sector and relieve the caseload already on doctors as it is.
 
2013-02-12 12:17:00 AM

JohnAnnArbor: JohnBigBootay: This is why sleepy people and phone in the car people pull out in front of cyclists and motorcycles all the time - their brain is saying, "Is a car coming?, No, ok then, proceed.' Then they pull right out in front of the non-car object despite looking right at it. I would not at all be surprised if sleepy or otherwise distracted driving kills as many people as drunk drivers.

What accounts for cyclists blowing stop signs, causing cross-traffic to jam on their brakes?


The fact that cyclists can only see what they want to see.
 
2013-02-12 12:55:54 AM

Stibium: The thing that my mind questions is how can you miss it if you are looking all over the X-ray for something that's causing symptoms? I read the headline, immediately looked at the X-ray and tried to figure out what it was and what was the "gorilla." (I assumed "gorilla" was a metaphor, not an actual gorilla.) It took me a couple seconds to scan from the left side to right and see it.


Because it wasn't one image.  The 'x-ray' in question was actually a CT stack (about 250 images) and five frames in the stack had the gorilla at various levels of transparency.

If radiologists scanned across each and every image in detail, your CT would never get read.  They are rapidly moving back and forth between frames to scan for very specific kinds of abnormalities.  The gorilla looks nothing like the abnormalities they are trying to find, which is why they get inattention blindness.  That's not always a bad thing - if they didn't lock their focus in on the specific patterns they are seeking, they might become better at seeing prank gorilla images but worse at actually finding lung cancer.
 
2013-02-12 12:58:51 AM
Meh, if I'm told to look for a tumor that's typically in the middle I won't even scan the outside. darker areas for a different dark shape.  If I'm looking for a cracked rib before I see any real detail I've already located the rib in question and am examining it, everything else is background noise.  To stand out when I've got a goal in front of me it's got to be contrasted enough to stand out even within the less capable peripheral vision.

This "study" may have that flaw...

If I ask you to enter a room that you've never been in before and tell me what color the ceiling is, but when you walk out and I ask you what color the carpet was instead, you'll be pissed that I wasted your time.

It's not that you couldn't tell, it's that you did not care.  An interior decorator may have noticed, or someone who happens to walk while looking down, etc.
Now, if there was a strobe light and you had other tasks to perform, maybe you noticed and even noted it at the moment, "hey, nice carpet", but returned to your task and because it wasn't actually memorable for any real special reason, you promplty flagged it as unimportant and more or less forgotten.

We see and process so much information all of the time we make a lot of calls on priority on the fly.

This is how vision works.  We see and recognize(in detail) only what we're focused on, in a physical sense as well as a mental sense.  Magicians have taken advantage of this for years and years, it is not news.

This is why women pull out the "What color are my eyes?" trick when they're trying to pick a fight.  We don't focus on the eyes themselves, but use them as a center of reference for facial recognition and reading emotions and such. Well, when we can tear our eyes off of their breasts that is.
Also, unless special attempts are made(or the longshot notable memory where you get that odd dreamy "just happened to notice" vibe.(IE people have an accident of one sort or another and seem to have an increased span of memory due to the adrenaline rush or whatever, in this case it's an associative thing a more profound of  "You don't know the date Gramma died?  Cretin!...I know it was Jan 15th! It happened on my birthday after we had cake"), we are not likely to remember such a small detail of color.  Can't see it across the room, nor is it valuable information in the sense of communication. Add to that that eye color can drift and appear different in different lights, it's more of an longshot anyone should remember eye color on the spur of the moment.

As a challenge, try to visualize your eye color right now without looking in a mirror. The look of your facial hair if you were up close to a mirror, any particularly long or unruly hair in your beard/eyebrows/etc?  Any achne today?  Do you need to trim your nosehair?  Grey hairs?
As above, if you haven't specifically noted these things, it's likely you have no idea at the moment, sure, you could wager an educated guess(rarely have zits so...) but that's not the same as actually knowing.

Jesus, if anyone should KNOW these answers it should be YOU!

It's akin to being challenged to prove you saw The Bucket List...by answering this question:
How many moles does Morgan Freeman have on his face?
 
2013-02-12 02:27:39 AM
There was a show a while back on TV here in Aus called Unbelievable, and one episode dealt with this, and its implications in the field of Magic.

Here's their take on the Invisible Gorilla.  It's 2 and a bit minutes, but trust me, it's worth it.
 
2013-02-12 02:53:18 AM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: miniflea: Great Janitor: I read the article, then I watched the video, knowing full well what was going to happen.  Interestingly enough, I counted correctly the number of passes.  Even saw the gorilla walk through.  I did notice, not the suit, but just a man wearing black and that he walked in from one direction and out the other.  It wasn't until the replay that I saw that he actually stopped and pounded his chest before moving on.

The first time I saw that video I didn't know about the gorilla and received the standard instruction to count the passes.  Though I thought to myself that something else must be going on, I am mildly embarrassed to admit that I did not notice the gorilla at all.

Most people don't. Radiologists or otherwise.

I saw a really good documentary about this that included Apollo Robbins as well as the Unseen Gorilla Researcher Guy I Forget Your Name.  ...

Found it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyeLF_a2iW0

GREAT documentary, especially if you're currently pissed you didn't see the damn thing.  It's more than likely not you.  Just, you know, the way your brain works.  I knew about the Unseen Gorilla Research, the SO didn't, and even though I did significantly better than he did, there were some tests I completely totally failed at... and I *knew* I was being tricked somehow.

/shrug
//like I said, it's a good watch



With this clip you can test if you make a good crime scene investigator. No gorillas, though.
 
2013-02-12 02:54:29 AM
I did not see it because I was excited and intrigued about seeing a ct scan of the lungs of a gorilla. I was thinking like, Did he smoke? Why are we looking at a gorilla's lungs? (I bet he has big ones.)

Gotta gorilla for sale, Magilla Gorilla for sale.
 
2013-02-12 03:24:10 AM

JohnBigBootay: This is why sleepy people and phone in the car people pull out in front of cyclists and motorcycles all the time - their brain is saying, "Is a car coming?, No, ok then, proceed.' Then they pull right out in front of the non-car object despite looking right at it. I would not at all be surprised if sleepy or otherwise distracted driving kills as many people as drunk drivers.


They aren't sleepy or phone-obsessed. They just have a disdain for two-wheelers, just like everyone else who isn't a two-wheeler.
 
2013-02-12 10:24:32 AM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: I did not see it because I was excited and intrigued about seeing a ct scan of the lungs of a gorilla.


I went in assuming that 83% of radiologists didn't realize that wasn't a human body part. I think I prefer them missing the gorilla photo than not noticing it's from the wrong species.
 
2013-02-12 10:30:53 AM
So the conclusion I should make is that I cannot see something unless I already know I am seeing it. Groundbreaking work there, Sherlock.
 
2013-02-12 10:43:19 AM
Key point for Fark:

"In other words, what we're thinking about - what we're focused on - filters the world around us so aggressively that it literally shapes what we see. "
 
2013-02-12 10:54:30 AM
Literally.
 
2013-02-12 04:27:58 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Key point for Fark:

"In other words, what we're thinking about - what we're focused on - filters the world around us so aggressively that it literally shapes what we see. "


Naturally, you're completely immune from this problem.
 
2013-02-13 04:00:49 AM

Yakivegas: Actually, the radiologist  should see the gorilla. They were told to review the scans for the presence of lung nodules. The gorilla obscures a portion of the lung field, so the radiologists that didn't see it failed to completely evaluate the lungs.


You are technically correct,  The best kind of correct
-Bureaucrat
 
2013-02-13 04:01:53 AM
Bureaucrat 1.0
 
2013-02-13 09:44:32 AM

lewismarktwo: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Key point for Fark:

"In other words, what we're thinking about - what we're focused on - filters the world around us so aggressively that it literally shapes what we see. "

Naturally, you're completely immune from this problem.


Not completely, but I've been aware of it for years, and have trained myself to always try and think outside my particular set of boxes.
 
2013-02-13 04:07:16 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: lewismarktwo: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Key point for Fark:

"In other words, what we're thinking about - what we're focused on - filters the world around us so aggressively that it literally shapes what we see. "

Naturally, you're completely immune from this problem.

Not completely, but I've been aware of it for years, and have trained myself to always try and think outside my particular set of boxes.


Ahh, but you've just built yourself a bigger box.  You must learn that there is no box, grasshopper.
 
2013-02-14 01:28:35 AM

lewismarktwo: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: lewismarktwo: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Key point for Fark:

"In other words, what we're thinking about - what we're focused on - filters the world around us so aggressively that it literally shapes what we see. "

Naturally, you're completely immune from this problem.

Not completely, but I've been aware of it for years, and have trained myself to always try and think outside my particular set of boxes.

Ahh, but you've just built yourself a bigger box.  You must learn that there is no box, grasshopper.


Oh my. The phony Eastern Master response. Ah, but two can play.

>>>>Ahh, but you've just built yourself a bigger box.  You must learn that there is no box, grasshopper.

Oh Learned One, it saddens me to realize that your belief that there is no Box is, in itself, a Box. To be truly free and wise, one must cast aside Belief. But even that statement is a Box. Wisdom is understanding that there is no Wisdom. There is no Understanding. There is nothing. Which isn't. Now do you grok, grasshopper? Selah.
 
2013-02-14 01:45:32 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: lewismarktwo: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: lewismarktwo: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Key point for Fark:

"In other words, what we're thinking about - what we're focused on - filters the world around us so aggressively that it literally shapes what we see. "

Naturally, you're completely immune from this problem.

Not completely, but I've been aware of it for years, and have trained myself to always try and think outside my particular set of boxes.

Ahh, but you've just built yourself a bigger box.  You must learn that there is no box, grasshopper.

Oh my. The phony Eastern Master response. Ah, but two can play.

>>>>Ahh, but you've just built yourself a bigger box.  You must learn that there is no box, grasshopper.

Oh Learned One, it saddens me to realize that your belief that there is no Box is, in itself, a Box. To be truly free and wise, one must cast aside Belief. But even that statement is a Box. Wisdom is understanding that there is no Wisdom. There is no Understanding. There is nothing. Which isn't. Now do you grok, grasshopper? Selah.


It's boxes all the way down.
 
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