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(Seacoastonline.com)   News: Locals raise $100K for memorial to honor sailors who died aboard the USS Thresher. Fark: The "memorial" will be a flagpole in the middle of a traffic circle   (seacoastonline.com) divider line 44
    More: Weird, USS Thresher, funds, state road, surface ships, sailors, Kittery, Funding raised  
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3780 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Feb 2013 at 8:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-11 08:49:04 AM
A hundred grand for a friggin' flagpole?  Those men deserve something a little better than that.

/son and grandson of bubbleheads
 
2013-02-11 08:49:42 AM
Wow, it's almost like the LP presidential campaign was in charge of this.

700$ to put up flagpole, 99,300$ in administrative costs.

Quality.
 
2013-02-11 08:54:05 AM
There's just a little more to this one.
FTA: "A 129-foot flagpole in Kittery's Memorial Circle will be the centerpiece of the memorial, which is to be dedicated on the morning of April 7"

Methinks subby doesn't know what "centerpiece" means
 
2013-02-11 08:55:13 AM
Could be worse - most memorials ARE the highway these days.
 
2013-02-11 08:55:45 AM
Inscription, "It's not queer once you leave the pier."
 
2013-02-11 08:56:20 AM

one0nine: A hundred grand for a friggin' flagpole?  Those men deserve something a little better than that.

/son and grandson of bubbleheads


Like a really deep pool?
 
2013-02-11 08:56:27 AM
The memorial is going to be made from depleted uranium
 
2013-02-11 08:57:40 AM

neongoats: Wow, it's almost like the LP presidential campaign was in charge of this.


Libertarian?
 
2013-02-11 08:58:31 AM
It will glow in the dark at night.
 
2013-02-11 08:58:59 AM
So, the home of the shipyard that caused the sinking is going all out, eh?

/Squids, we got you a flagpole!
//So, we all cool now?
///Thanks for the SUBSAFE program, Portsmouth.
 
2013-02-11 08:59:29 AM
As a resident of Kittery, ME, let me say that I officially don't give a fark.
 
2013-02-11 09:01:30 AM

martid4: Inscription, "It's not queer once you leave the pier."


I thought it was" its not gay if you're under way"
 
2013-02-11 09:03:44 AM

lenfromak: neongoats: Wow, it's almost like the LP presidential campaign was in charge of this.

Libertarian?


No, LP for long-playing microgroove record. Those vinyl discs sure piss away the cash.
 
2013-02-11 09:07:34 AM
Do we have one for the USS Liberty?

Is it also a cross?
 
2013-02-11 09:07:55 AM

martid4: Inscription, "It's not queer once you leave the pier."


It's not gay if you're underway
 
2013-02-11 09:08:58 AM

Oldiron_79: martid4: Inscription, "It's not queer once you leave the pier."

I thought it was" its not gay if you're under way"


*shakes tiny, underwater fist*
 
2013-02-11 09:14:17 AM
Too much to ask for a paragraph telling hat happened to the ship? Other thn it sank?
 
2013-02-11 09:17:20 AM

paulleah: Too much to ask for a paragraph telling hat happened to the ship? Other thn it sank?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=uss+thresher
 
2013-02-11 09:19:31 AM

Yes this is dog: As a resident of Kittery, ME, let me say that I officially don't give a fark.


Old Orchard represent! Spent many Summers at the family beach house there.

This is close to my heart. Although I lost no family when the 593 went down and stayed down, my father was team lead on the design for the torpedo delivery system. Luckily, he turned down a shakedown cruise invite. I may need to make a road trip.

CSB time...

At the commissioning of the 593, my mother joined my dad for a families tour of the boat. My mom was a naive country girl. When she looked through the periscope she yelled "Dave! It's in technicolor!" I'm pretty sure that was the moment facepalming was born.
 
2013-02-11 09:20:57 AM
A 129-foot flagpole in Kittery's Memorial Circle will be the centerpiece of the memorial

I'm guessing subby missed this part
 
2013-02-11 09:23:14 AM

LSUMJ: A 129-foot flagpole in Kittery's Memorial Circle will be the centerpiece of the memorial

I'm guessing subby missed this part


If the headline didn't invoke some outrage then it wouldn't have gone green
 
2013-02-11 09:24:45 AM
I guess they ran it up the flagpole and someone saluted.
 
2013-02-11 09:28:25 AM

LSUMJ: A 129-foot flagpole in Kittery's Memorial Circle will be the centerpiece of the memorial

I'm guessing subby missed this part


I'm guessing that subby is a moran.

WhackingDay: paulleah: Too much to ask for a paragraph telling hat happened to the ship? Other thn it sank?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=uss+thresher


That site is the very essence of internet snark, and I love using it whenever one of my "should know better" friends demonstrates an incapability to find the search window.

USS Thresher was lost during sea trials (first underway) when a propulsion plant failure led to a loss of depth control and the emergency surfacing equipment froze up.  Propulsion could not be recovered before the ship sank to an unrecoverable depth, and all hands were lost.

Her loss has fundamentally changed the submarine construction, maintenance, and even operational systems ever since.  She, along with SCORPION are the only two American SSNs lost at sea.  SAN FRANCISCO came close after striking an underwater mountain.
 
2013-02-11 09:33:18 AM

Uisce Beatha: So, the home of the shipyard that caused the sinking is going all out, eh?

/Squids, we got you a flagpole!
//So, we all cool now?
///Thanks for the SUBSAFE program, Portsmouth.


It was in part Portsmouth's fault and partly the navys rush for deeper diving boats. That the Thresher had recently undergone depth charge testing didn't help any.

Most of the 90+ boats that followed her (up to 688 with a couple of exceptions) used essentially the same systems. SUBSAFE made a few minor changes in basic design but vastly improved the materials and testing methods used. That and making it so that any seawater piping was to be given the same consideration as the pressure hull (instead of stopping at the backup valves like they used to do) probably saved quite a few lives so her loss was not in vain.

Speaking from personal experience, dealing with SUBSAFE requirements on a boat that was originally not designed, much less completed, with SUBSAFE in mind was not an easy task. Some boats never were certified to be 100% SUBSAFE compliant because of the costs and down time associated with the new piping requirements so they had their official test depths cut in half to the Skipjack standard. They did have the blow systems and emergency closure addressed however and I do think that in an emergency that they could have gone to their original rated test depth with no ill effects as they were usually close to 90% compliant, all in the places that really mattered. For example the hull and backup valves were still rated to full crush depth and they all had the emergency closure systems that the Thresher didn't have.

The Scorpion was one of the last boats due for a SUBSAFE overhaul when she was lost although I think that it wouldn't have mattered in her case outside of the reported ships control problems. It had apparently developed a "Shake" at flank speeds that an overhaul probably would have fixed and some theories have the shaking rupturing a MK 37 battery electrolyte diaphragm causing it to short out and heat up a weapon enough to cause a low order warhead explosion. I personally can buy that explanation given how much dislike there was in the fleet for that particular weapon. There were a few other problems with its design that had caused more than a few hot runs in its history at sea.
 
2013-02-11 09:35:39 AM
Look kids! Big Ben! Sub Memorial!
 
2013-02-11 09:41:22 AM
$100,000 for a memorial.
Well, $50,000 just doesn't go as far as it used to.
Surely $25,000 will build a decent thingie.
And then the unexpected $10,000 cost overrun.
And we used Marine parts.

That is a damn fine $1,000 flagpole we can all be proud of.
 
2013-02-11 09:45:00 AM
Friend of mine was scheduled to be on both the Thresher and the Scorpion on their last missions, but missed both due to scheduling conflicts.  Have told him he should be buying lottery tickets every day.
 
2013-02-11 09:47:11 AM

Radioactive Ass: It was in part Portsmouth's fault and partly the navys rush for deeper diving boats. That the Thresher had recently undergone depth charge testing didn't help any.


Mostly Portsmouth's.  Welders had the quality of their welds judged by the thickness at the time, before SUBSAFE instituted better weld testing.  They were rushed, so they just laid welding rods down and welded over them to get the required thickness quickly.  Granted, they were rushed, but that is no excuse for blantantly faking welds.

The Joint Fleet Maintenance Manual used to give the history on it - don't know if it still does, it has been a few years since I went through QAO/QAS school.

/Former QAO
//Worst.Collateral.Duty.Evar.
///Our boat was supposedly the first to leave PNSY on time since the Thresher
////Much knocking on wood was had
 
2013-02-11 09:50:25 AM

factoryconnection: USS Thresher was lost during sea trials (first underway) when a propulsion plant failure led to a loss of depth control and the emergency surfacing equipment froze up. Propulsion could not be recovered before the ship sank to an unrecoverable depth, and all hands were lost.


It was not its first underway. It had just undergone a short overhaul and inspection after being subjected to depth charge shock testing. Her design was radically different than her predecessors and the navy wanted to know what would happen to it after being shaken up a lot. Apparently they missed a silver brazed joint near a reactor control panel in the AMR that caused not only flooding at or near test depth but also shut down the reactor. In addition the reactor operating procedures at the time precluded them from using the latent heat in the reactor to drive a boat to the surface (they shut the main steam valves (MS1 & 2) which could close automatically but had to be opened by hand, and it wasn't easy to open them either, they had huge "Knocker" type handles and it took a couple of minutes each to fully open them). After that the navy allowed boats to use the latent heat in an emergency even though that could cause other problems later on inside the reactor but not a loss of boat and crew.

So in short the flooding added weight that the pumps couldn't deal with at test depth, the propulsion was shut down by the flooding which prevented them from gaining enough speed to drive themselves shallow and the emergency blow system had never been tested as a whole which would have shown a fatal flaw in the design related to the laws of thermal dynamics (the valve outlets froze over as the compressed air expanded) so they couldn't displace enough seawater weight using air to pop to the surface.
 
2013-02-11 09:56:49 AM

Radioactive Ass: factoryconnection: they shut the main steam valves (MS1 & 2) which could close automatically but had to be opened by hand, and it wasn't easy to open them either, they had huge "Knocker" type handles and it took a couple of minutes each to fully open them


Ah, the days of Main Steam Stop races - who can open MS-1 or MS-2 quickest?  (For us, MS-2 had a decided advantage - the valve unseated slightly easier than MS-1)
 
2013-02-11 09:59:05 AM

Uisce Beatha: Mostly Portsmouth's. Welders had the quality of their welds judged by the thickness at the time, before SUBSAFE instituted better weld testing. They were rushed, so they just laid welding rods down and welded over them to get the required thickness quickly. Granted, they were rushed, but that is no excuse for blantantly faking welds.

The Joint Fleet Maintenance Manual used to give the history on it - don't know if it still does, it has been a few years since I went through QAO/QAS school.

/Former QAO
//Worst.Collateral.Duty.Evar.
///Our boat was supposedly the first to leave PNSY on time since the Thresher
////Much knocking on wood was had


Well, as I said SUBSAFE changed the materials and testing used in construction. I dealt with it from the perspective of a QAI both in writing packages and inspecting other divisions work as well as doing SUBSAFE work before that. Were you the DCA too? All of the boats that I was on had the DCA as the QAO and A div or M div Div O as well. They didn't usually stand a regular watch underway as the workload just didn't allow for it although they did do proficiency watches as EDO.
 
2013-02-11 10:04:32 AM

Radioactive Ass: It was not its first underway. It had just undergone a short overhaul and inspection after being subjected to depth charge shock testing.


I was giving the TL;DR, completely unclassified brief.  Nobody but the other bubbleheads on here know what MS-1/2 are, and all of us know what you said already.  Other than the sequence of her underways, obviously.
 
2013-02-11 10:04:52 AM

Radioactive Ass: Well, as I said SUBSAFE changed the materials and testing used in construction.


Yup, and I was agreeing.

Radioactive Ass: Were you the DCA too?


Sure was.  And M-Div before that.

Radioactive Ass: didn't usually stand a regular watch underway


Oh dear god, I wish I got that deal.  ORSE EOOW and TRE OOD as well  (our Nav got fired, I was senior JO, so I got to do it instead).  Sleep is for the weak.
 
2013-02-11 10:13:53 AM

factoryconnection: Radioactive Ass: It was not its first underway. It had just undergone a short overhaul and inspection after being subjected to depth charge shock testing.

I was giving the TL;DR, completely unclassified brief.  Nobody but the other bubbleheads on here know what MS-1/2 are, and all of us know what you said already.  Other than the sequence of her underways, obviously.


For the record all of that information has been released by the navy in one form or another otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.

Uisce Beatha: Oh dear god, I wish I got that deal. ORSE EOOW and TRE OOD as well (our Nav got fired, I was senior JO, so I got to do it instead). Sleep is for the weak.


Oh my. What fun you must have had. Seniority has it's perks huh?
 
2013-02-11 10:17:50 AM

Radioactive Ass: For the record all of that information has been released by the navy in one form or another otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.


Naturally.
 
2013-02-11 10:31:25 AM
The flagpole would have to be made out of stainless steel. The base has to go into the ground and be secured to withstand the high winds of the Maine coast. And I imagine the flag for a 129 foot tall flagpole is going to be fairly large, too, and they will want to make it out of something weather resistant so it will last a while. Then there is the brass plaque set in stone (there is always a brass plaque set in stone on these kind of things), and the large concrete area for it, with walkways going up to it. Then, because it's in a traffic circle, they would have to put up a wall around the entire thing to keep the drunken drivers from wiping it out every so often.

Then of course they have to have a party for the grand opening of the event, so the stuffed shirts can thank all the people who raised money for it---and that normally comes out of the building fund, too.
100 K might not be enough.
 
2013-02-11 10:36:28 AM

Radioactive Ass: factoryconnection: Radioactive Ass: Oh my. What fun you must have had. Seniority has it's perks huh?


Well, to be honest, it was a blast.  Still, years later, counts as the best job I ever had.

factoryconnection: Radioactive Ass: For the record all of that information has been released by the navy in one form or another otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.

Naturally.


Although it has been a *long* time since I've gotten to call "beadwindow" on someone...
 
2013-02-11 11:02:34 AM
Mt Pleasant, PA has a Dough Boy in the traffic circle in the middle of town.  It is a memorial to every war that america has fought in except Iraq and Afghanistan since they never updated it.  It would be more appropriate to have the statue near the Legion or VFW. Biggest thing that bugs me is that they have traffic lights with this circle too.
 
2013-02-11 12:49:06 PM

varmitydog: And I imagine the flag for a 129 foot tall flagpole is going to be fairly large, too, and they will want to make it out of something weather resistant so it will last a while.


129 foot pole. In Kittery that looks to be more than twice as tall as any other building in the area.
 
2013-02-11 12:53:53 PM
And we'll honor them every Festivus
 
2013-02-11 01:04:33 PM
My dad was assigned to Intrepid in 1968 based out of Norfolk, as was Scorpion. There were a few kids that I hung out with whose fathers went down with her. God bless them all.
 
2013-02-11 02:24:43 PM
img419.imageshack.us
Our flag poles! Where are they? Answer that one, Herr Goering! The Maine-iacs have plenty of them! Talking big is all he's good for, that fat slob.
 
2013-02-11 06:32:26 PM
I've seen the classified stuff on her. I've heard the audiotape.  You can't unhear that kind of stuff.  Horrible way to go.

/20 year submariner.
 
2013-02-11 09:08:18 PM
I figured that they would be paying for more than just the flag pole.

To run up the cost of the flag to $100K you'd pretty much have to go with the real gold brocade for the stars and tassels. Even then, what would it take? A few ounces of gold, maybe a troy pound, at less than $1,700 an ounce?

Mighty expensive flag and pole. You'd have to use Pentagon contractors!
 
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