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(Herald Sun)   Protestor dents Enola Gay with container of fake blood. Jailarity ensues   (heraldsun.news.com.au) divider line 849
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23125 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Dec 2003 at 2:30 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-12-16 05:14:30 PM
I can't believe that some people would take the side of Nazi Germany's Axis Powers... it really surprises me that people think a country, aligned with Nazi Germany, killing thousands of Americans, hundreds of thousands of Chinese, aligned with a nation that killed millions of Jews, and 9-11 million Soviets... is okay... I guess I must be a hardened despotic elitist liberal to understand...

So your taking the side of the country (the US) that allied itself with another country (the USSR) that murdered more people than any of the countries you listed. That has to be the lamest, most retarded argument on here. Saying we shouldn't have used the A-bomb isn't taking the side of the Japanese you logically depleted myopic half-wit.
 
2003-12-16 05:14:46 PM
It is ok to win a war. Especially one that you didn't start. If it were a matter of the U.S. going down or Japan going down I am glad it was them and not us. The same thing applies to today.
 
2003-12-16 05:15:07 PM
nomales
We have a mock up of fat man and little boy here in town. Its amazing something that small can do so much



Who said Tolkien wasn't writing about WWII?
 
2003-12-16 05:15:13 PM
Cool, I'm glad to know there are brave Americans out there like you who would punch an elderly woman in the face because she dared to question the greatness of the act of America dropping an atomic bomb on her.

your welcome
 
Mog
2003-12-16 05:15:13 PM
I don't have much of an opinion on this, seeing as how hard it is to find decent, accurate information on this matter (similar to the whole "OMG FDR KNEW ABOUT PEARL HARBOR" deal [which I suggest anyone who believes this to go to the library of congress to prove themselves wrong])...

But I found this to be funny:

2003-12-16 03:32:06 PM FUBuddy

boot20 Don't even bring it boot20 I got a Masters in history with a BS in Asian studies. America had no idea the human toll, we damn well knew about the scientific outcomes with studies that took place frmo the developing standpoint but we had no idea just how big of a toll it could take.
You need to get out of junior college so we can finish this discussion.


For someone who claims to be well educated, you sure decided to pick a horrible source to prove your point (http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0806-05.htm). For the record, opinion pieces are not good sources of information, especially since (a) the dude is a "clinical psychologist" (not even a historian) and (b) he didn't even list any sources of information.

As for the situation... well, like I said I don't have much of an opinion. It was a means to an end, but whether it was the best way to end it is still being decided until I do more reading on the subject.
 
2003-12-16 05:15:44 PM
Look, we bombed the Japanese with nukes, it sucked, yes, but look at the alternative for a moment, and it was best move we could have made, for THEM as much as for us. A military analysis indicated that we would lose somewhere around 500,000 to a million people fighting the Japanese down to the man, and they would have gone down to the man, because they saw it as their honor being put on the line.

We would have ANNIHLATED them, there wouldn't BE a Japanese race if we had done it the old-fashioned way. Knocking as many of us off as possible was their only real victory in the matter, and it would have allowed them to keep face, but when we removed their ability to do that with the nukes, the ability to potentially wipe them out from a safe distance, they reality sunk in, and they gave up. In the long run, it was perhaps the best move they could have made in that whole sad war. It sucks that we did it, but it was that or the loss of our troops, and THEIR race. Think about it.

We apologized for nuking them. THEY need to farking apologize for the Bataan Death March and the frickin' debacle of human rights making American, British, and other various war prisoners build those train tracks in China, giving no medical aid as they all sucuumbed to illness, harsh treatment, and slave labor. Hell, do they even MENTION this in their history books...?

We just need to stop immature pouting, tell each other WE are sorry, and move on with our lives....

Jesus, call me Captain Obvious...
 
2003-12-16 05:16:38 PM
slobarnuts The offical Soviet estimate was 27 million.
 
2003-12-16 05:17:31 PM

When speaking of the Axis, a person is defending the Nazis, Imperial Japan and Fascist Italy, all peas in a pod.



When speaking of the Axis, a person is defending the Nazis, Imperial Japan and Fascist Italy, all peas in a pod.

I think it can be proven that 9-11 million Soviets were killed and that there is speculation as high as 20 million, but I haven't seen the stats in awhile.

<

 
2003-12-16 05:17:51 PM
Not taking the Axis side by any means, but on the topic of Soviet death totals, it's probably fair to mention that the Soviets killed a hell of a lot of Soviets, including roughly 20,000 during the battle of Stalingrad alone.

So basically, it sucked to be a Soviet citizen during the 40s, or most decades before and after for that matter.
 
2003-12-16 05:18:26 PM
impaler
First off retard, the Truman Library is going to paint Truman in the best light possible. Secondly, they weren't off by much, at least not enough to turn 65,000 into over a million. Thirdly, the point was to show that "millions would have died" is highly exaggerated, which it is, not to show that the bombing was right or wrong.

I might as well quote from the article you linked to:

If Leahy had extrapolated for the force the U.S. Army was proposing to put on Kyushu, he would have related a figure for casualties that would have been more than one-third of 767,000, that is, more than 250,000 casualties. And if one calculated the deaths from the casualties it would have been (figuring that the American troop strength on Okinawa had been as high as 150,000, with deaths running to 13,000, as mentioned) five times the Okinawa figure, which meant 65,000.

Notice that this was only for the Japanese island of Kyushu (Operation Olympic) . That still leaves Shikoko, Hokkaido, and Honshu (the big island, and target of Operation Coronet), plus a few hundred smaller islands. Granted, the Japanese were planning an all-or-nothing defense of Kyushu called Operation Ketsu-Go, and defeating them here might have destroyed the resistance of the Japanese army. *Might* have. Just as a bit of background, you might check out http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/arens/chap4.htm -- it might be part boast and part bluff, but had Olympic/Coronet went forward the U.S. would have had casualties not seen since the Civil War.
 
2003-12-16 05:18:36 PM
[But you did fan the flames and find ways to increase its destructiveness.]

Y'know - at least you're consistently idiotic. That's something, at least. Oddly enough, the development of nuclear weapons stopped the large scale 'total war' concept dead in it's tracks. As even you must realize, since the development and deployment of nuclear weapons there hasn't been a world war of any sort. Low scale regional 'brushfire' wars and spats of course...but nothing like the scale of WWII.

And this is a bad thing why? I can understand being terrified of nuclear weapons. Hell, I'm not too fond of them either - but they SAVE lives. They did so right out of the gate by ending WWII and they kept the Cold War from breaking out into a nasty shooting war. Mind you, it would have been over sooner had the Rosenbergs not sold out thier country...but still - things turned out for the best.
 
2003-12-16 05:18:50 PM
cheguevara12, I think it's worse to sanitize war. I agree with Kymry that there should have been no censorship: just tell exactly what happened. That's what museums are for.

Taking the Enola Gay out of the context of its mission to drop the first atomic bombs ever used in the history of human warfare is much like a history book that only refers to Adolf Hitler as 'leader of Germany during World War II'. Without the A-bomb context, the Enola Gay is just another plane, with very little significance otherwise.

I don't think it's right to damage historical artifacts, precisely because if you attempt to destroy history, you destroy the possibility of future generations learning the horrors of war, and then they are doomed to repeat it again.

So by all means, put up pictures of the mushroom clouds over Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Show the pictures of the many dead, disfigured and why the U.S. government purported were the reasons to use those weapons (whether it's right or wrong).

One thing people seem to erroneously believe is that 'history' is a fixed thing that never changes. While that may be true in the sense that the past never truly changes - what happened, happened - but what people know about the past, and what people have written about the past, change over time as new evidence comes to light and views are changed accordingly (as happens in science, physics, etc.). To be stuck to just one version of history which might possibly have become outdated because of new evidence unearthed or formerly-sealed records only just now being unsealed and coming to light, is to only know one history which may have been wrong, inaccurate or exaggerated.

That's different than so-called 'revisionist historians' who simply rewrite history in the way they'd like to see it or putting the correct 'spin' on it so as to reaffirm certain prejudices they already had before they did they selective 'research', instead of relying strictly on all the evidence as it exists now.

As I've stated before (on another thread) I am no expert on the Pacific theatre, as I concentrated my studies on the history of the Third Reich and the Holocaust. I also don't claim to be biased, as is evidenced by the fact that I was born in Nagasaki, and I am Japanese (and Canadian) shown in my profile.

However, I'd like to say I have no agenda in attempting to make Japan look better, or play the victim as I have no illusions about Japan's complicity in war crimes during WWII, or even the faults of the current Japanese government and the problems which exist in Japanese culture and society now. However, it is my belief that killing civilians, no matter what pretext you give or what excuse you use, is wrong.

These aren't 'unlawful combatants', or 'spies and saboteurs', these are innocent civilians: men, women and children who are taking no part aggressive part in the war effort, and may not have any say in the actions of their country's military. To blame them somehow for the actions of other people, especially when they have virtually no power to stop it or change it, and claim they 'deserved it' somehow simply because they share the same nationality as the real perpetrators of war crimes, is wholly unjustifiable.

It is lacking in human compassion or feeling, and to those who cannot understand that this is about more than just the survivors of Hiroshima or Nagasaki, this is about the protection of civilians during wartime throughout the world, both now and in the future, as well as attempting to prevent the tragedies of nuclear warfare from ever occurring again.

Whether you believe that the use of atomic weapons is justified under certain circumstances or not, I think even you can agree that they are horrific weapons, to be used only as a very last resort as the only option left in defense of lives, or of freedom and democracy.

To suggest otherwise shows an astounding lack of comprehension or compassion and a large amount of ignorance of the consequences of nuclear warfare, or warfare in general.
 
2003-12-16 05:19:00 PM
"I can't wait till America 'Gets whats coming to it'"

That's funny. The rest of the world is patheticly impotent when compaired to us militarily. Our enemies might spread a little anthrax or fly a plane into a building or at worst set off a "dirty bomb", whoopty do for them.

We would then wipe all evidence of their existance from the face of the earth. It's time that those little towel head terrorists learn the facts of life. If you attack the United States or our citizens, you will be eradicated like the vermin you are. Ask the Taliban if they think getting in bed with Bin Laden was such a good idea now, if you can find one to ask.
 
2003-12-16 05:19:02 PM
Nomales... Just so everybody knows who you are talking about... it's the appropriately named " Bigjohn3592". Let's all clap for him. What a guy. He would have showed them old broads a thing or two. I bet their teeth would stick in your knuckles real easy like - after all they're old, and probably suffer from radiation poisoning.
 
2003-12-16 05:20:32 PM

"So your taking the side of the country (the US) that allied itself with another country (the USSR) that murdered more people than any of the countries you listed. That has to be the lamest, most retarded argument on here. Saying we shouldn't have used the A-bomb isn't taking the side of the Japanese you logically depleted myopic half-wit"

I'm sorry, did I strike a chord??? The Axis and Nazism were a bad things; you are saying America is as bad as the USSR??? Are you such an America hater you believe this??? Next you'll be defending Hitler, good for you.

 
2003-12-16 05:21:10 PM
briandogg:

Whacking the Mitsubishi plant (Pearl torpedo plant) in Nagasaki seems poetic justice. Nagasaki was also an HQ of Japanese Army at the time (and the reports by our POW's being held there, make fascinating reading).
 
JPN
2003-12-16 05:21:20 PM
logically depleted myopic half-wit...

haha. added to burn list.
 
2003-12-16 05:21:49 PM
enave
um, Lincoln was a republican.

I'm not sure "Republican" was synonymous with "conservative" in 1865.

um, Democrats opposed the civil rights act buddy. Republicans got it passed.

Zuh? You might be thinking of the dixiecrats, who eventually became republicans after the civil rights battle (think Strom Thurmond). True, Eisenhower pushed through nascent civil rights legislation in the late fifties, but I seem to remember Lyndon Johnson getting the big pieces of civil rights legislation passed in 1964/65. All of the dixiecrats who opposed it were lost to the Democratic party forever (as LBJ himself said, civil rights lost the Democrats the South).
 
2003-12-16 05:22:58 PM
2003-12-16 05:19:02 PM
sugarlarry


Nomales... Just so everybody knows who you are talking about... it's the appropriately named " Bigjohn3592". Let's all clap for him. What a guy. He would have showed them old broads a thing or two. I bet their teeth would stick in your knuckles real easy like - after all they're old, and probably suffer from radiation poisoning.


Prolly, but still. Its stupid to come here and do something like that. Its like they said "Please, kick our soft teeth having asses".
 
2003-12-16 05:23:16 PM
Verm,

What if you don't know who did it? What if they just sneak a nice little package into NY harbour? What "towel heads" are you going to bomb then you racist retard? Would you just turn a bunch of towel headed little kids to a steaming pile of burnt flesh? I'd post some pics to drive home my point, but I wouldn't wanna get banned. I know it's only good to post pics of boobies and stuff like that. Wouldn't wanna make things too real.
 
2003-12-16 05:25:30 PM
Remember third time is a charm. Next time make it Tokyo.
 
2003-12-16 05:25:50 PM
Verm

You're a fool.
 
2003-12-16 05:25:54 PM
I'm sorry, did I strike a chord??? The Axis and Nazism were a bad things; you are saying America is as bad as the USSR??? Are you such an America hater you believe this??? Next you'll be defending Hitler, good for you.

I see. I have been trolled. Good one ;)
 
2003-12-16 05:26:33 PM
To all the people who have mentioned Nanking this and Jap atrocities that, please STFU!!!

Quit your whiney schoolboy arguing tactics "awww miss he did this so i did that"

They commited atrocities so we were owed a couple on tab!

Why didn't you open up concentration camps for all German citizens while you were at it?

Learn to discuss things based on strategy and necessity, losers.

As to Pearl Harbour - agreed it was unprovoked - but it was a military target - and anyway once again 2 wrongs do not a right make.

Strategically you might argue it was necessary to bomb hiroshima (especially to prevent Russia getting any say in Japan post war)however I have always thought as has been mentione above a warning shot could have been fired on a non civilian target

Lastly post Hiroshima, Nagasaki was an abomination and an act of shame to all involved - even if another bomb had to be fired to show we had more where the first came from it did not have to be on civilians -
 
2003-12-16 05:27:00 PM
All they did was throw a can of paint at the bomber that destroyed an entire city. That's it. They were angry cuz you blew up a city and killed 70,000 people. Whether or not their leaders started the war is beside the point. They are angry that the plane is idolized without any context. Please excuse these people for taking it personally- I think it's kind of understandable. Get a grip.

I'm outta here. It's like talking to a fawking brick.
 
2003-12-16 05:29:45 PM
enave:

Do forgive the spelling of Condescen--con--yes. I am a horrible speller and I admit it freely.

I have to say in my defence that I am sick of broad generalizations regarding the character/intelligence/patriotism being hurled from one side of the republican/democrat fence to the other. I have called out both sides in the past, I was just calling out HonestIndian because he was doing the ignorant thing and making the generalization that those who didn't agree with him should read a book.

I stand by my statement that his comments were ignorant. I do not agree that half of the United States is idiotic (although they do watch appalling amounts of reality television). I am not even saying that I agree/disagree with him. I am saying that making a blanket statement about a whole group of people he has never met is ignorant.

But then, I guess he intended it to be insulting, so I shouldn't have risen to the bait. He's been a pretty smart guy in other threads, I am sorry to see him sink to this kind of silly trolling.

Not that there aren't liberals making ignorant and outrageous statements throughout this flamewar, mind. But just because I am liberal-ish (note the "ish") I got my hackles up. I never indulge in the passtime of panning all conservatives as uneducated hicks.

I tend to lose respect for people who use dumb personal attacks, liberal or conservative.
 
JPN
2003-12-16 05:30:55 PM
re: Nagasaki was an abomination and an act of shame to all involved

abomination? good one. try the straw the broke the camels back. quite effective.
 
2003-12-16 05:31:40 PM
sugarlarry

You get a grip man. how would the Japanes like it if we decided to piss on the monuments they have? Not well. I have met quite a few folks from Japan in my time, and they were not nice to americans at all. So, if they come over here and do shiat like that, we are not going to be real understanding.
 
2003-12-16 05:31:54 PM
they should have burned the farking thing to the ground, along with the dumbfarks with the comments.

it was used to bomb civilians. civilians goddamnit.
you farking dont do that. yes japan instigated, but they hit a military target and hit it hard. american babies, cant stand losing one or two.

you dont target and kill civilians with atomic weapons.
some farker should have stood for war crimes on those.

funny how only the loser is found guilty of attrocities while the victor is encouraged commit them.

assholes.
 
2003-12-16 05:32:00 PM
A lot of people see the Enola Gay as the plane that brought their sons, husbands, et cetera, home from the war, so to say it's idolized without context is to be ignorant of all points of view.

I can certainly understand the protestors' point of view, but to come to the US, deface a national monument, and expect us to be sympathetic is probably a little unrealistic.
 
2003-12-16 05:32:34 PM
"they"..."we"..."us"..."them".....what the bloody Hell does all this mean?
People living is houses DID NOT bomb Pearl Harbor or rape
Nan-king[sic?]
As an American citizen am I responsible or accountable for shiatty foreign policy? As a person living in a nation am I to be punished if my government makes a mistake? WWII was a horrible abomination for all but anyone who says:"they desrved..." or "we had to..." or whatever is a stupid moron.Btw--where do you think the Japanese learned imperialism from? The Japanese did the exact same as Europe and America had been doing a century before.The Enola Gay is a piece of history.History is a contant reminder of how truly horrific humanity can often be.All you candy coated liberals may line up to kiss my ass.All you Republican jar-heads that think the world is a football game and America is the champion,please stand in line behind the liberals and pucker up.
 
2003-12-16 05:35:27 PM
wiggiebear
I can certainly understand the protestors' point of view, but to come to the US, deface a national monument, and expect us to be sympathetic is probably a little unrealistic.

I see your point, but I think surviving an atomic blast gives you at least little bit of license to pull those kinds of shenanigans, if it makes you feel better. If they can repair the plane (and I don't see why they can't), then I say no harm, no foul.
 
2003-12-16 05:35:48 PM
sugarlarry and enave

"um, Democrats opposed the civil rights act buddy. Republicans got it passed"

Actually, to be nitpicky, you're both kind of wrong. The "Dixicrats," a rather nasty racist branch of, as the name implies, southern Democrats, were actually the ones who opposed de-segregation. They split off from the Democratic party over the issue. Strom Thurmond was a Dixicrat. Scary.
 
2003-12-16 05:37:00 PM
haplo53
(I'm posting this late I know, just got back frm lunch) I'm not justifying what or saying what the US did was right, and I know it may be a little off topic but I was trying to shed light on the fact that becuase of the atomic bombs being dropped Japans atrocities during WWII are completly overlooked. I personally don't agree with the atomic bomb being dropped, but it did end the war, who knows how long it would of went on for if the bomb was not dropped (and yes I think the second bomb was too much). All I am saying is becuase of thsose bombs being dropped people ignored one of the worst atrocities in human history commited by the Japanese.
 
2003-12-16 05:37:12 PM
sugarlarry:

("...don't know who did it?"). I expect it's only a matter of time before some of the wrong bozos figure out that a dirty device that fits into a golf bag, in a volkswagon, three blocks from the capitol, and set off (no real explosion - just sufficient generations of neutrons to produce sufficient gamma rays to kill the assembled heads of U.S. goverment during State of the Union Address) will result in just what you fear. But, you have to admit, the list of suspects is short and, sixty years from now the debate about the legitimacy of our response will be debated on some future fark thread...
 
2003-12-16 05:37:15 PM
We should have fired a warning shot by dropping a bomb on Moscow, that would might have convinced them. Well, at least it would have gotten rid of Stalin.

/I got nothing.
 
2003-12-16 05:38:34 PM
[All they did was throw a can of paint at the bomber that destroyed an entire city. That's it.]

No, they assaulted an important historical artifact for reasons that were questionable at best. It's a bad precedent to set too. Orwellian connontations aside, i'm a big fan of historical preservation and people who damage important historical artifacts are dispicable people no matter what thier intentions.

[ They were angry cuz you blew up a city and killed 70,000 people.]

...in a war they started, to prevent the mass slaughter an invasion of Japan would have caused...

[Whether or not their leaders started the war is beside the point.]

So, to carry this analogy further, Bush's actions in Iraq are beyond any question and any complaints are therefor treasonous and actionable.

You wanna be careful of broad open statements like that...it'll open all sorts of silliness.

[ They are angry that the plane is idolized without any context.]

So next to the plane put pictures up of the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Death March on Baataan and the rape of nanking along side the pics of the fighting on guadicanal, the phillipines and the aftermath of the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. I'd have no problem with such an exhibit. How 'bout you?

[Please excuse these people for taking it personally- I think it's kind of understandable. Get a grip.]

So why are YOU so upset when others take things personally BUT take an opposite viewpoint?

[I'm outta here. It's like talking to a fawking brick.]

Declair victory, run away.
bleah.
 
2003-12-16 05:38:38 PM
Nomales - she was directly affected by this plane.

It hurt her, so she hurt it. To her it isn't a monument... it's just a freakin' plane that dropped a really big bomb. You are upset cuz somebody dented an object. She is upset cuz the object we are refering to killed 70,000 people, and actually hurt her personally. Do you understand?

To her your national monument is a monument to mass murder.

As for lack of context... go ahead. Say it brought home US soldiers, but admit it killed 70,000 people. Again otherwise you are living in a fantasy.
 
2003-12-16 05:38:52 PM
One thing I haven't seen mentioned here, was the Soviet invasion of Japan that actually began a couple days after the bombs were dropped. Truman made a deal with Stalin that the USSR would attack Japan within 90 days of the surrender of Germany.

Stalin lived up to this plan, and did attack 90 days later, which happened to be after the US dropped the bombs. Russia, to this day, still claims a few piddly islands they took in their initial attacks on Japan.

We were discovering in Europe that we didn't want the USSR to own any more real estate, because we knew that once they got it, it would stay theirs. The atomic bombs brought an end to the war, and also an end to the USSR invasion. If they had never been dropped, then the USSR would probably own a good chunk of Japan, and it would be a shiathole like much of Eastern Europe.

We spared much of Japan a Soviet occupation, and they should be thanking us for that. I have a degree in Russian history, but if you doubt this, you should consult a few credible historical sources. Because Japan surrendered to us, instead of us and the USSR they are now a huge economic powerhouse.
 
2003-12-16 05:39:41 PM
I would like to go out and start protesting protesters. It would be fun to stand in the middle of some angry crowd with a sign that says "Ignore us, we're fools."
 
2003-12-16 05:39:52 PM
xenocide
(I'm posting this late I know, just got back frm lunch) I'm not justifying what or saying what the US did was right, and I know it may be a little off topic but I was trying to shed light on the fact that becuase of the atomic bombs being dropped Japans atrocities during WWII are completly overlooked. I personally don't agree with the atomic bomb being dropped, but it did end the war, who knows how long it would of went on for if the bomb was not dropped (and yes I think the second bomb was too much). All I am saying is becuase of thsose bombs being dropped people ignored one of the worst atrocities in human history commited by the Japanese.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it look like I was asking you personally all those questions. I was pretty much throwing them out there for everybody, and what you wrote gave me a good opening. My bad.
 
2003-12-16 05:40:34 PM
man..thats awesome...i wish i could have pissed on this piece of shiat...FDR was my biatch
 
2003-12-16 05:40:36 PM
Better article about the protesters here. The Japanese were not the ones making trouble.
 
2003-12-16 05:40:50 PM
Kymry,

It's been a long day. You win some-you lose some.

I stand by my statement that freeing the slaves was done by conservative, bible-thumpoing fundies.....pretty much everything else I said in this thread was farkin garbage.

But then again, there's a lot of garbage floating around this thread.

And for what it's worth. We kinda were poking Japan in the chest until they bombed Pearl Harbor. We shouldn't be surprised they threw a punch.
 
2003-12-16 05:41:05 PM
haplo53
I see your point, but I think surviving an atomic blast gives you at least little bit of license to pull those kinds of shenanigans, if it makes you feel better. If they can repair the plane (and I don't see why they can't), then I say no harm, no foul.

I don't disagree. They certainly have a lot more credibilty than Americans who do the same thing. However, for them to come here to say "YOU did this to us" is ignorant of the broader context of the war.

The Enola Gay isn't going to drop any more bombs. You want to protest nukes, go to someplace where they exist, or to the governments who possess them. This was just an exercise in protesting history, something horrible that occurred in the course of war, and cannot be changed.
 
2003-12-16 05:41:24 PM
Abomination - Definition - something that is detestable, hated, or abhorred

How in all that is logical and vulcan can you describe a Hydrogen bomb (as was dropped on Nagasaki if I recall) in any way as a straw? More like a god damn sledgehammer that not only broke the camel's back but also deisembowelled it!
:-)
 
2003-12-16 05:42:25 PM
Oh, and by the way, do a search for "Unit 731" if you want to see some of Japan's war crimes. There is a memorial in Japan dedicated to this unit that did some pretty horrible things, like dissecting American POWs alive. However, that is an entirely different story.
 
2003-12-16 05:42:35 PM
Fake blood,
You scare me like the real thing
And if you were the real thing
You'd scare me more.

So pour it on
Like it's the real thing
Fake blood
You rock me like the real thing, YEAH
 
2003-12-16 05:42:52 PM
Bah. The Japanese didn't deserve the atomic bombs.

They EARNED them.
 
2003-12-16 05:44:44 PM
wiggiebear
I don't disagree. They certainly have a lot more credibilty than Americans who do the same thing. However, for them to come here to say "YOU did this to us" is ignorant of the broader context of the war.

The Enola Gay isn't going to drop any more bombs. You want to protest nukes, go to someplace where they exist, or to the governments who possess them. This was just an exercise in protesting history, something horrible that occurred in the course of war, and cannot be changed.


Excellent point. To paraphrase Howard Zinn , we must remember these types of events not to direct our anger back into the past, which is useless, but to perpetuate our awareness into the future, so that similar events may be prevented (...he wrote it a lot better).

Still, if it gave the survivors any sort of catharsis, I really don't have a problem with it.
 
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