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(Apple Insider)   Surface Pro "sells out" on first day; just like the Zune HD did in 2009   (appleinsider.com ) divider line 88
    More: Asinine, Zune HD, Microsoft, original iPhone, BBY, BeOS, Paul Thurrott, PS Vita  
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4709 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Feb 2013 at 9:02 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



88 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-02-10 09:03:12 PM  
Remember when Microsoft had a funeral for the iPhone?

www.geeky-gadgets.com
 
2013-02-10 09:06:37 PM  
Its easy to sell out when every store only had a few in stock. Call me when Microsoft releases sales figures on Monday.

/which they won't since they simply couldn't deliver many units and the reaction has been subpar at best
 
2013-02-10 09:08:55 PM  
I bought both of them.
 
2013-02-10 09:11:01 PM  
The samsung windows 8 tablet/pc looks awesome (like the note 10.1 but with windows!).  I've been wanting one, but every time I go to a Best Buy / Staples / etc they are sold out.
 
2013-02-10 09:15:35 PM  
I totally want a Surface Pro. It'll be way easier to carry that thing when I travel to China than my massive 5 pound laptop.
 
2013-02-10 09:16:58 PM  

kukukupo: The samsung windows 8 tablet/pc looks awesome (like the note 10.1 but with windows!).  I've been wanting one, but every time I go to a Best Buy / Staples / etc they are sold out.


This. Despite all the push by pro-Apple fanbois, it's actually a nice piece of work.
 
2013-02-10 09:18:13 PM  

SpdrJay: I bought both of them.


How does it feel to be Microsoft's target demographic?
 
2013-02-10 09:24:03 PM  
I'm quite sure a source like Apple insider will report without any bias about MS sales.

Though it's a $900 device, I don't expect them to sell in large amounts.
 
2013-02-10 09:35:18 PM  
apple insider + fark's recent hard-on for hating MS anything.   a recipe for great reading, come morning ..
 
2013-02-10 09:38:08 PM  
Really?   AppleInsider.com?
 
2013-02-10 09:40:53 PM  
Sounds like most Apple launches . . .

Me, a couple days after the iPad 2 launched.

Boss: "Steve, I want to give our major client an iPad as a gift. I'm flying out to see him late tomorrow. See if you can get one before then."
Me: "Ok, I'll see what I can do."

So I called around to the Apple stores, who said that they'd get some more in tomorrow morning, and no, I can't reserve one in advance. I go into the South Center Mall the next morning at 7am (stores open at 9), and see that there's already some 15 people in line in front of the store. I hear chit chat about being able to buy the devices and shipping them overseas for big profit - as one guy was going to buy all he could and ship them to his cousin in Taiwan. Occasionally an Apple store rep comes out and checks on the crowd. Most times, he's asked if they know how many iPads are in stock. He'd lie out of his butt, saying they wouldn't know until they opened the store.

The second the store opened, they announced to the crowd (now some 60 strong), that they only had 8 iPads, and we could try again later in the week, when they would get more in stock. He wouldn't say when, what models or how many they expected. You'd just have to line up each morning before store hours.

I decided to try my luck and head over to the Target on the other side of the mall parking lot. I asked the electronics guy if they had any iPad 2's in stock. His reply: "Yeah, we got an additional 40 in this morning. Lots to choose from. We'll be getting an additional 50 in two days."

Fark you Apple. You build up these launch events, eat up all the press of people lining up out in front of stores, then have your customer service people lie to customers faces ("Oh, we have no idea how many we're getting today, you just have to wait in line until we open our doors"). I hope to never go through that bullshiat again.

/might go pick up a Surface Pro tomorrow.
 
2013-02-10 09:46:48 PM  
I know this sounds weird... but... that thing is almost too powerful.

I want a tablet that can both do tablet stuff AND let me get some work done. I've got a GPU-equipped PC back home with 8 gigs of RAM if I want to do Adobe AfterEffects. The i5 is overkill for anything more casual than that, really.

If Microsoft (or Nokia, since they're sounding like the next Windows OEM, tablet-wise) released a Clover Trail-powered tablet with a removable keyboard, I'd be sold. The Acer Iconia W510 I've got on loan from my university packs that, and well... it's wonderful. It'd be even better with some non-Acer-level refinement.

9-hour battery life, a real keyboard, real USB ports, real Windows 8, real x64 compatibility... if you have work to do and want some entertainment in your down time, it's very, very hard to beat a Windows 8 unit.
 
2013-02-10 09:47:13 PM  
The inventory part in the Apple store is actually true. My cousin used to work there and he said that was the most annoying shiat he had to deal with. No one would know how many ipads or iphones were coming in, neither did the manager apparently. The stock delivery was all decided by someone who didn't even work at the store. And everyday when the truck pulled in, that would be the first time they knew how much stock came in.
 
2013-02-10 09:52:48 PM  

MrSteve007: Sounds like most Apple launches . . .

Me, a couple days after the iPad 2 launched.

Boss: "Steve, I want to give our major client an iPad as a gift. I'm flying out to see him late tomorrow. See if you can get one before then."
Me: "Ok, I'll see what I can do."

So I called around to the Apple stores, who said that they'd get some more in tomorrow morning, and no, I can't reserve one in advance. I go into the South Center Mall the next morning at 7am (stores open at 9), and see that there's already some 15 people in line in front of the store. I hear chit chat about being able to buy the devices and shipping them overseas for big profit - as one guy was going to buy all he could and ship them to his cousin in Taiwan. Occasionally an Apple store rep comes out and checks on the crowd. Most times, he's asked if they know how many iPads are in stock. He'd lie out of his butt, saying they wouldn't know until they opened the store.

The second the store opened, they announced to the crowd (now some 60 strong), that they only had 8 iPads, and we could try again later in the week, when they would get more in stock. He wouldn't say when, what models or how many they expected. You'd just have to line up each morning before store hours.

I decided to try my luck and head over to the Target on the other side of the mall parking lot. I asked the electronics guy if they had any iPad 2's in stock. His reply: "Yeah, we got an additional 40 in this morning. Lots to choose from. We'll be getting an additional 50 in two days."

Fark you Apple. You build up these launch events, eat up all the press of people lining up out in front of stores, then have your customer service people lie to customers faces ("Oh, we have no idea how many we're getting today, you just have to wait in line until we open our doors"). I hope to never go through that bullshiat again.

/might go pick up a Surface Pro tomorrow.


same thing happened to me for ipad 2...  i was on a mission from the boss and got to blow 6 hours of sitting around on a camping chair to make up the human meat in apples publicity stunt.  they had "no idea!" how many units they were getting before turning away 80% of the folks in a 500 meter queue
 
2013-02-10 09:52:53 PM  

roflmaonow: The inventory part in the Apple store is actually true. My cousin used to work there and he said that was the most annoying shiat he had to deal with. No one would know how many ipads or iphones were coming in, neither did the manager apparently. The stock delivery was all decided by someone who didn't even work at the store. And everyday when the truck pulled in, that would be the first time they knew how much stock came in.


Knowing about future stock shipments is one thing. Having 40 people wait outside the store and then tell them they only have 8 only when the store officially opens it's doors is another.
 
2013-02-10 09:59:47 PM  
I'd love a Surface Pro... Can't afford to be buying one of those right now, but I would still love to have one.
 
2013-02-10 10:01:44 PM  
I bought an ASUS slate lat month. Runs on Windows 7, has a superb Wacom pen setup and other good stuff.
 
2013-02-10 10:13:05 PM  
Surface Pro "sells out" on first day

All 12 of them?  That's awesome!
 
2013-02-10 10:13:26 PM  
I'm waiting until our group executives announces his latest restructure plan tomorrow, then depending on the news I am rushing out to either the pub or to buy a surface pro.

Okay, I might actually do both regardless.
 
2013-02-10 10:15:37 PM  
I bought one...
 
2013-02-10 10:16:28 PM  

gingerjet: Its easy to sell out when every store only had a few in stock. Call me when Microsoft releases sales figures on Monday.

/which they won't since they simply couldn't deliver many units and the reaction has been subpar at best


i've seen a lot more companies do this lately to try and generate buzz... sony did it with the vita, with stores saying they were constantly out of stock on launch day except really they didn't ship that many games and memory cards to begin with, so people were walking around with vitas and no games even if they were desperate

nintendo did the same thing with the wii u, only shipping consoles to stores who had reservations/pre-orders i guess in an attempt to replicate the wii's buzz

it seems like such a gimmick... if your device needs scarcity sales buzz at launch just to get it in the public mind, you're doing it wrong, just put enough units out there at a reasonable price and maybe then word of mouth spreads - kinda hard to do when barely anybody owns one and the ones that do are having a bad experience - better off having a low sales great experience for the early adopters so they can be positive about the device to friends & family
 
2013-02-10 10:26:05 PM  

MrSteve007: Sounds like most Apple launches . . .

Me, a couple days after the iPad 2 launched.

Boss: "Steve, I want to give our major client an iPad as a gift. I'm flying out to see him late tomorrow. See if you can get one before then."
Me: "Ok, I'll see what I can do."

So I called around to the Apple stores, who said that they'd get some more in tomorrow morning, and no, I can't reserve one in advance. I go into the South Center Mall the next morning at 7am (stores open at 9), and see that there's already some 15 people in line in front of the store. I hear chit chat about being able to buy the devices and shipping them overseas for big profit - as one guy was going to buy all he could and ship them to his cousin in Taiwan. Occasionally an Apple store rep comes out and checks on the crowd. Most times, he's asked if they know how many iPads are in stock. He'd lie out of his butt, saying they wouldn't know until they opened the store.

The second the store opened, they announced to the crowd (now some 60 strong), that they only had 8 iPads, and we could try again later in the week, when they would get more in stock. He wouldn't say when, what models or how many they expected. You'd just have to line up each morning before store hours.

I decided to try my luck and head over to the Target on the other side of the mall parking lot. I asked the electronics guy if they had any iPad 2's in stock. His reply: "Yeah, we got an additional 40 in this morning. Lots to choose from. We'll be getting an additional 50 in two days."

Fark you Apple. You build up these launch events, eat up all the press of people lining up out in front of stores, then have your customer service people lie to customers faces ("Oh, we have no idea how many we're getting today, you just have to wait in line until we open our doors"). I hope to never go through that bullshiat again.

/might go pick up a Surface Pro tomorrow.


Reminds me of one of the Harry Potter midnight releases. I drove past the local B&N that had a line into the parking lot over and went over to the 24 hour Walmart, grabbed a copy, and headed home.
 
2013-02-10 10:29:23 PM  
I am curious if Best Buy knew how many they were getting at each location.  They made customers purchase a $50 gift card in order to pre-order a Surface Pro.
 
2013-02-10 10:34:23 PM  
A few years ago i worked at Wal-mart, i was the manager of the photo lab, but i frequently picked up extra shifts in electronics. At the height of the Wiis popularity, we had people there on the days we got trucks in hoping to get them, one day there was a rep from Microsoft their setting up our display case with new signage and new demo models of whatever new Zune had just been released, im standing at the desk sorta chatting with him and the phone rings.

"No, sorry maam, were out of stock, they sell out pretty much as soon as we get them in."
"We generally receive shipments on tuesdays and fridays around 11am."
"Ok, youre welcome, sorry again and good luck."

Overhearing this the Microsoft guy goes...

"Was that about the new Zune?"

I couldnt help it but i laughed right in his face. Felt sort of bad about it, but cmon dude.
 
2013-02-10 10:44:17 PM  

Cyno01: I couldnt help it but i laughed right in his face. Felt sort of bad about it, but cmon dude.


Did he resemble this guy?
leaderslegends.files.wordpress.com
"C'mon! I haven't eaten in days!"
 
2013-02-10 10:44:29 PM  
Now how about us folks that aren't professional IT folks is there a regular or home edition Surface tablet? Surface Pro sounds a little daunting for us layfolks.

Also I am assuming the Surface Pro will have way less viruses then the Ipad?
 
2013-02-10 10:57:58 PM  
I took a look at one at the Microsoft store in the Yorkdale Mall (Toronto, Ontario, Canada).  No lineups, and I had to just wait a few minutes to try out the only display model they had with a Type cover.
Not bad, but I think I'll probably go for the Dell XPS 12 convertible ultrabook.  I just don't like the cheap little kickstand to hold the screen at only one fixed angle, assuming you are at a table.
And you can get a better processor, and 2x the HDD and RAM on the XPS 12.  Comparably-equipped, they are about the same price.
 
2013-02-10 10:58:15 PM  
I'm not taking that bait...
 
2013-02-10 10:58:55 PM  

Elzar: Now how about us folks that aren't professional IT folks is there a regular or home edition Surface tablet? Surface Pro sounds a little daunting for us layfolks.

Also I am assuming the Surface Pro will have way less viruses then the Ipad?


As the name suggests the Surface pro is really for professionals who need extra power to run resource hungry programs on the go. I know a friend of mine is getting it, it will come in handy for his presentations, running various VMs to demo, etc..

I personally believe regular folks are better off with a laptop with a touchscreen if they so need it. I've seen windows 8 ones go for around $450. It's not a bad deal for a touchscreen interface which will run all older windows programs.
 
2013-02-10 10:59:45 PM  
Can't comment on the Surface tablet, but I still use my Zune and will be disappointed when it finally croaks.

/fan of the Asus Transformer
 
2013-02-10 10:59:50 PM  
I was considering a surface RT for college. (I know they are not the same, but my point is still valid.)  I sold my ipad 2 and was so close to getting a surface until I actually used it.  It can't do anywhere near as much as my ipad could.  no recording class lectures, no remote access to my home computer, no flipboard, no airprint or wireless scanning, crappy battery life, SLOOOOOW, abhorrent ergonomics, and using office on it was much worse than just using iWork until I got home.

I really wanted to like the surface, but it's just microsoft trying to be cool instead of making a practical device.  a regular laptop is still more useful.
 
2013-02-10 11:06:21 PM  
I'll say it, I still love my Zune HD.
 
2013-02-10 11:07:24 PM  
regindyn: Can't comment on the Surface tablet, but I still use my Zune and will be disappointed when it finally croaks.

I'm still using my Zune 120 on my work commutes. Will also be sad the day it croaks.
 
2013-02-10 11:29:51 PM  

TwistedFark: I'm waiting until our group executives announces his latest restructure plan tomorrow, then depending on the news I am rushing out to either the pub or to buy a surface pro.

Okay, I might actually do both regardless.


Just make sure you have those TPS Reports in before you leave.
 
2013-02-10 11:54:29 PM  

Sargun: Really?   AppleInsider.com?


Yeah, that's like going to infowars for the truth about black hawk helicopters.
 
2013-02-11 12:13:16 AM  
I'm assuming the Asinine tag was for that snark-fest of an article.
 
2013-02-11 12:15:26 AM  

GoldDude: I took a look at one at the Microsoft store in the Yorkdale Mall (Toronto, Ontario, Canada).  No lineups, and I had to just wait a few minutes to try out the only display model they had with a Type cover.
Not bad, but I think I'll probably go for the Dell XPS 12 convertible ultrabook.  I just don't like the cheap little kickstand to hold the screen at only one fixed angle, assuming you are at a table.
And you can get a better processor, and 2x the HDD and RAM on the XPS 12.  Comparably-equipped, they are about the same price.


I've got an XPS 12 and love it. It's great for work (can run a few VMs) and then I installed Steam on it for Civilization.  Solid laptop.
 
hej
2013-02-11 12:16:37 AM  

gingerjet: Its easy to sell out when every store only had a few in stock. Call me when Microsoft releases sales figures on Monday.

/which they won't since they simply couldn't deliver many units and the reaction has been subpar at best


I stopped at the Microsoft Store to check out the Pro.  They had sold about 140 units by that point (the day was about half over) and only had a handful of the 64GB models left.
 
hej
2013-02-11 12:20:32 AM  

hej: gingerjet: Its easy to sell out when every store only had a few in stock. Call me when Microsoft releases sales figures on Monday.

/which they won't since they simply couldn't deliver many units and the reaction has been subpar at best

I stopped at the Microsoft Store to check out the Pro.  They had sold about 140 units by that point (the day was about half over) and only had a handful of the 64GB models left.


On launch day, that is.
 
2013-02-11 12:37:23 AM  
Fark all o'yall... I like my Zune HD!
/listening to it now
//goddamn apple fanbois
 
2013-02-11 12:43:51 AM  

SN1987a goes boom: Sargun: Really?   AppleInsider.com?

Yeah, that's like going to infowars for the truth about black hawk helicopters.


Thank God all the other websites are totally impartial.

/you don't even know how brainwashed you are
 
2013-02-11 12:44:34 AM  

mentaluproar: I was considering a surface RT for college. (I know they are not the same, but my point is still valid.)

 a regular laptop is still more useful.


Actually, I don't believe your point is valid.  The Pro can basically do everything a regular laptop can (although no optical drive may make installation of certain programs a little trickier).
 
2013-02-11 12:56:23 AM  

DarthBart: Reminds me of one of the Harry Potter midnight releases. I drove past the local B&N that had a line into the parking lot over and went over to the 24 hour Walmart, grabbed a copy, and headed home.


Ha! I loved doing that. First time I reserved a copy at the mall and just walked in at 11am release day and picked it up. Store was empty.

For the last book there was no parking at B&N. Went over to Hastings around 11:30 and was out of there 10 after midnight. The wife's birthday was in July so she'd always have a present she wanted. She'd tear through the damn thing nonstop on the first day.
 
2013-02-11 01:00:25 AM  
Subby is trying way way too hard.

The surface pro is a very nice machine, without all of the ridiculous apple-ecosystem-imposed limitations.

The samsung win8 tablet is looking good too. It is going to be a tough choice.
 
2013-02-11 01:07:20 AM  
Haha, I actually just RTFA.

Apple sounds like a nerdy kid begging for people to remember that he once won a chess club contest 4 years ago, and to stop liking the new smart kids that moved in.

I also love the liberal use of "apostrophes"

Apple's iPad remains "popular" among "certain" demographics that share "interests" with certain "Fashion designers" and Barbara Streisand "fans" (etc)
 
2013-02-11 01:29:11 AM  

ISO15693: Subby is trying way way too hard.

The surface pro is a very nice machine, without all of the ridiculous apple-ecosystem-imposed limitations.

The samsung win8 tablet is looking good too. It is going to be a tough choice.



I'm seriously tempted to get one of the new Asus VivoTab Smart's. Tiger direct has them selling for $480 and it's a full Windows 8 machine. I could put Zoom Player on it and watch stuff straight over my LAN from my fileserver. A full Windows PC in tablet form and for under $500 is pretty appealing to me. I'll be heading to a Windows store soon to see if I can check one out. If it can also deliver the instant-wake, minimal battery usage with the screen locked, experiences that Android and iOS do while being able to play HD files I have stored on other computers on my network directly then I am probably going to buy one.
 
2013-02-11 01:46:58 AM  
I'm happy enough at the moment with my Surface RT + touchscreen Win 8 ultrabook, but I did stop by Best Buy over the weekend to look at the Surface Pro, and there were a number of people standing around playing with the Surfaces that they had on display.
 
2013-02-11 01:48:44 AM  
Im curious about the performance of the  Asus VivoTab Smart tablet as well. I'm generally turned off by the mention of an Atom processor. These are however supposed to be the clovertrail dual core ones and might be a lot better than their predecessors. What really draws me to the Pro is the use of an actual SSD (C400) which makes a ton of difference in performance.
 
2013-02-11 01:51:43 AM  
When people come into my home office, they're awed by my setup. It looks impressive, but it's simple. A Dell tower with two monitors, a Mac Pro with two monitors.

I use my PC for 85-90% of my work. The Mac is great for Email blasts, video editing and other specialized tasks.

The difference, in my opinion, is that my work Mac (and personal Mac's) are updated with the current OS. I usually wait 3-6 months to upgrade because I use a ton of music software that needs time to upgrade.

On my Window's PC, I'm still running XP. My companies IT Manager is a die-hard Windows guy and he refused to upgrade us to 7 and has been vocal about no one upgrading to 8.

We've had an iPad for several years and it still works like a charm. I'm looking to get an iPad mini, not because it's an Apple, but because it works like I need it to. Not perfect, but predictable.
 
2013-02-11 01:52:34 AM  
Price is really the only bad thing about it
 
2013-02-11 02:27:29 AM  
Ah, just like when Apple came out with the Newton. They claimed that "demand had greatly exceeded supply", and declined to comment on how many they built. Turns out, after all that hype, years later, they only had made 4,000 units on that initial run. Creating faux demand is from the Apple playbook of yesterday.
 
2013-02-11 02:57:30 AM  

rewind2846: Fark all o'yall... I like my Zune HD!
/listening to it now
//goddamn apple fanbois


The reason why the Zune HD crapped itself is because by the time it was released, no one was buying single purpose digital media devices anymore - they had this thing called SMART PHONES.

The article writer is basically just using a false analogy because he wants to tar the Surface with the Zune's failure, despite the fact that the Surface PRO is basically a tablet form-factor PC, a device everyone is still using...

I mean, let's get real - the article and subby are just trolling. Surface Pro is pretty cool, if it's succesful or not has a lot to do with how many people want a tablet instead of a notebook device and nothing to do with apple and their ipads - which are basically just expensive toys.
 
2013-02-11 02:58:07 AM  

roflmaonow: The inventory part in the Apple store is actually true. My cousin used to work there and he said that was the most annoying shiat he had to deal with. No one would know how many ipads or iphones were coming in, neither did the manager apparently. The stock delivery was all decided by someone who didn't even work at the store. And everyday when the truck pulled in, that would be the first time they knew how much stock came in.


I don't think that makes it true, that just means the false shortage is coming from somebody further up the chain of command.

Not that Apple is the only one guilty of this.  I'm not entirely sure, but I think they invented the tactic (because it makes for a good headline).  But, I would be shocked if that isn't what Microsoft is doing here as well.

mongbiohazard:

I'm seriously tempted to get one of the new Asus VivoTab Smart's. Tiger direct has them selling for $480 and it's a full Windows 8 machine. I could put Zoom Player on it and watch stuff straight over my LAN from my fileserver. A full Windows PC in tablet form and for under $500 is pretty appealing to me. I'll be heading to a Windows store soon to see if I can check one out. If it can also deliver the instant-wake, minimal battery usage with the screen locked, experiences that Android and iOS do while being able to play HD files I have stored on other computers on my network directly then I am probably going to buy one.

Clovertrail is most definitely the real deal.  ARM-esque battery life and can do 80% of what you would need from a Windows PC.  As long as you're not doing gaming or something like video editing you'll probably be perfectly happy with it.

Acer also makes a version of the W700 with a Core i3 that's sort of a middle ground between Clovertrail and an i5.  It gets 7ish hours of battery life and is around $800, so there is that option if you're not quite sure if the Atom will cut it.  I have one on the way to me now.
 
2013-02-11 03:26:45 AM  

TwistedFark: The reason why the Zune HD crapped itself is because by the time it was released, no one was buying single purpose digital media devices anymore - they had this thing called SMART PHONES.


I'm on the third or fourth generation of smart phones and I'd like to go back. Not sure why I'd want one device that sucks at 5 things over five devices that work.
 
2013-02-11 03:57:00 AM  
Pretending the surface pro is crap isn't going to actually achieve anything appley chappys. It may be a bit odd and it is expensive but it is an amazing unit, and that thing it runs (Windows full) doesnt need to be sold to anyone..
 
2013-02-11 03:58:07 AM  

FormlessOne: kukukupo: The samsung windows 8 tablet/pc looks awesome (like the note 10.1 but with windows!).  I've been wanting one, but every time I go to a Best Buy / Staples / etc they are sold out.

This. Despite all the push by pro-Apple fanbois, it's actually a nice piece of work.


Y'know, for all the passionate Apple hate, I've never actually seen an Apple fan made happy by Microsoft failing.

I'm an Apple fan and JESUS I wish Microsoft would get their shiat together. Competent competition is great and helps everyone.
 
2013-02-11 04:01:32 AM  

marcre3363: When people come into my home office, they're awed by my setup. It looks impressive, but it's simple. A Dell tower with two monitors, a Mac Pro with two monitors.

I use my PC for 85-90% of my work. The Mac is great for Email blasts, video editing and other specialized tasks.

The difference, in my opinion, is that my work Mac (and personal Mac's) are updated with the current OS. I usually wait 3-6 months to upgrade because I use a ton of music software that needs time to upgrade.

On my Window's PC, I'm still running XP. My companies IT Manager is a die-hard Windows guy and he refused to upgrade us to 7 and has been vocal about no one upgrading to 8.

We've had an iPad for several years and it still works like a charm. I'm looking to get an iPad mini, not because it's an Apple, but because it works like I need it to. Not perfect, but predictable.


Retarded comparison is retarded.

Your IT department could arbitrarily impose restrictions on upgrades to your shinies and you'd be stuck with older OSes.  You also neglected to mention each non-Windows "service pack" upgrade is $60+ each time (i.e. from .1 to .2, .2 to .3 is another $120.)

There's no real reason to upgrade (for work anyway).  It's just a make-work project -- as you say, your IT depts have to test *ALL* of your production software rigorously before releasing to everyone.  That's hundreds of hours, all for what?  Nothing.  The only reason to upgrade would be that a piece of software REQUIRES a newer OS... which is to say, almost none (email blasts and an Office suite?)  This is why major business are often 3-4 years "out of date" or skip minor versions: bug fixes in OSes can actually break software (because they were compensating or relying on said bug).

If you pay attention to certain stores' computers, some are still using text terminals and some are Windows 3.1/95... and it's perfectly fine.

Incidentally, what's the point of having two computers?  Either computer is equally capable of performing office-related tasks.  (PCs can also email blast... lol)  Seems like a waste / just to show off...
 
2013-02-11 04:08:00 AM  
I want to be an unpaid shill for a multi national consumer product corporation when i grow up daddy. so weird that that people that have no actual personal stake in a consumer product's success or failure get so excited that they rush to the internet to brag about toaster a outselling toaster b.

/chick I was working with on a contract up in Milwaukee saw me turn off the music on my earphones with that little switch near on the wire and proceeded to biatch to me that samsung had stolen that from apple. I had to ask her even if that was true why the f*ck could she hope to gain from such and obvious and useful design to be legally protected so one company could monopolize profits derived from sticking a regular old pressure switch on a set of earphones.
psychopaths.
 
2013-02-11 05:31:23 AM  

SleepingEye: The only reason to upgrade would be that a piece of software REQUIRES a newer OS... which is to say, almost none (email blasts and an Office suite?) This is why major business are often 3-4 years "out of date" or skip minor versions: bug fixes in OSes can actually break software (because they were compensating or relying on said bug).


Maybe if it's a mom and pop shop, but depending on how your desktop services are sourced (in house/out sourced) then there can be other significant reasons for upgrading OS's, such as patch management, application delivery (particularly packaging), support costs (Operating systems that are out of support can pose a particular financial risk to an organisation - imagine XP out of support by MS and an XP specific vulnerability gets released - with no patch coming, except maybe with a hefty fee attached to it).

I won't pretend it's always clear cut to upgrade an OS or not (my workplace is about a year behind on a scheduled windows 7 upgrade because our outsourcer, HP, can't get their shiat together) - but practically a few hundred hours of application testing is chump change depending on how big your desktop deployment is and the overhead associated with keeping an aging desktop environment going.

Btw, Office 2013 won't run on XP or Vista. I know being several years behind on Office suites goes hand in hand with being several years behind in OS's, but even if you take a fully app-centric view of it, practically there becomes a point when new productivity apps will drive a system upgrade regardless of how stable the OS is.
 
2013-02-11 06:45:46 AM  
What I don't understand is why microsoft decided to release a crippled version of the tablet OS first at the price they should be selling the full OS. There's no way Id buy a crippled windows tablet and no way I'm paying $900 for the pro.
 
2013-02-11 07:18:24 AM  

Animatronik: What I don't understand is why microsoft decided to release a crippled version of the tablet OS first at the price they should be selling the full OS. There's no way Id buy a crippled windows tablet and no way I'm paying $900 for the pro.


The Surface Pro has all the functionality of a laptop and is priced as such. It's not meant to compete with the iPad's price point.
 
2013-02-11 07:44:09 AM  

RexTalionis: Animatronik: What I don't understand is why microsoft decided to release a crippled version of the tablet OS first at the price they should be selling the full OS. There's no way Id buy a crippled windows tablet and no way I'm paying $900 for the pro.

The Surface Pro has all the functionality of a laptop and is priced as such. It's not meant to compete with the iPad's price point.


The point is, Microsoft could have shaved 50% off the price and had access to the huge PC market. But they're too dumb to realize that the only cachet their name has at this point is with ppl who use the Office suite of products. At least that's how I see it.

They're a software company and Apple is a hardware company. Why should I pay a 50% premium to buy a surface? All I see is a company deliberately crippling less expensive hardware so it won't compete with more expensive hardware, when what I really want is something in that form factor that will run the products I use on a PC in a light tablet format. From what I understand, a surface rt can't replace a laptop therefore its competing with other tablets that have mature app markets.

I've already switched to linux on one of the pcs iny house, and my netbook runs both. If the surface pro were under 500 I'd consider it. That's how far off the mark they are.
 
2013-02-11 07:56:36 AM  

ubwcgm: I'll say it, I still love my Zune HD.


*knucks*

I loved mine until it locked up.  Now, I am an unwilling member of Apple Nation.
 
2013-02-11 08:00:16 AM  

RexTalionis: The Surface Pro has all the functionality of a laptop and is priced as such. It's not meant to compete with the iPad's price point.


Well, except that the screen is too small and the keyboard isn't something you'd want to be on for very long.

I know tablets are the new hotness, but in terms of getting shiat done, a laptop still wins. Other than weighing a few lb less, I don't see the advantage.
 
2013-02-11 08:50:36 AM  

farkeruk: I know tablets are the new hotness, but in terms of getting shiat done, a laptop still wins. Other than weighing a few lb less, I don't see the advantage.


I'd be all about it if it switched between the useable Metro UI when operating as a tablet and a tried-and-true proper desktop UI when being used like a laptop. I could see it being very useful in my line of work where I have a very large number of headless servers. I could connect quickly and run scripts while in the server room from my tablet without having to fumble with KVMs and then turn it into a proper workstation when I go back to my desk to do email and write up documents.

But as long as there's no proper desktop UI I see little reason to drop a grand on it. What I'd gain in productivity from the tablet I'd lose in productivity from the laptop.

Although since I already have to use Windows 8 anyway for some of the remote admin features required for our Server 2012 installs I guess that ship has already sailed...
 
2013-02-11 09:28:43 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: farkeruk: I know tablets are the new hotness, but in terms of getting shiat done, a laptop still wins. Other than weighing a few lb less, I don't see the advantage.

I'd be all about it if it switched between the useable Metro UI when operating as a tablet and a tried-and-true proper desktop UI when being used like a laptop. I could see it being very useful in my line of work where I have a very large number of headless servers. I could connect quickly and run scripts while in the server room from my tablet without having to fumble with KVMs and then turn it into a proper workstation when I go back to my desk to do email and write up documents.

But as long as there's no proper desktop UI I see little reason to drop a grand on it. What I'd gain in productivity from the tablet I'd lose in productivity from the laptop.

Although since I already have to use Windows 8 anyway for some of the remote admin features required for our Server 2012 installs I guess that ship has already sailed...


The point of the Pro is that it does exactly what youre saying - it's a full Windows 8 so it has the Metro guff as well as a normal desktop.

You may be thinking of the RT which doesnt have a real desktop - but that one doesn't cost a grand...
 
2013-02-11 09:51:11 AM  
The Surface Pro would be pretty sweet as long as you have a "real" keyboard and display to use it with at your desk.
 
2013-02-11 10:25:08 AM  
If I could find a new Zune I would buy it.

// so sad when I lost my 30 last year
// not even the HD version :(
 
2013-02-11 10:25:32 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: farkeruk: I know tablets are the new hotness, but in terms of getting shiat done, a laptop still wins. Other than weighing a few lb less, I don't see the advantage.

I'd be all about it if it switched between the useable Metro UI when operating as a tablet and a tried-and-true proper desktop UI when being used like a laptop. I could see it being very useful in my line of work where I have a very large number of headless servers. I could connect quickly and run scripts while in the server room from my tablet without having to fumble with KVMs and then turn it into a proper workstation when I go back to my desk to do email and write up documents.

But as long as there's no proper desktop UI I see little reason to drop a grand on it. What I'd gain in productivity from the tablet I'd lose in productivity from the laptop.

Although since I already have to use Windows 8 anyway for some of the remote admin features required for our Server 2012 installs I guess that ship has already sailed...


All current Windows machines (both RT and Windows 8) include a desktop. However, only the Windows 8 machines (which, naturally, run on Intel or AMD x64 processors) have binary compatibility with the desktop applications you're used to, as well as the new Windows Store applications.

If you want one that's good for general computer work, I'd recommend looking at one of the newer Atom-powered Windows 8 tablets. They're in the iPad's general price range and often have optional removable keyboards, some with batteries inside. Battery life (tablet-only, not including the keyboard) is often in the two day range, from my experience with my usage habits. You can plug in all of the hardware you are used to with commodity adapters that can be found in any electronics store in America. An array of hardware configurations exist.

If you need the ability to run Photoshop and the like... the Surface Pro and it's Core i-powered ilk are good choices... but for doing development and other stuff... they might be overkill.
 
2013-02-11 10:41:57 AM  

Marine1: Vegan Meat Popsicle: farkeruk: I know tablets are the new hotness, but in terms of getting shiat done, a laptop still wins. Other than weighing a few lb less, I don't see the advantage.

I'd be all about it if it switched between the useable Metro UI when operating as a tablet and a tried-and-true proper desktop UI when being used like a laptop. I could see it being very useful in my line of work where I have a very large number of headless servers. I could connect quickly and run scripts while in the server room from my tablet without having to fumble with KVMs and then turn it into a proper workstation when I go back to my desk to do email and write up documents.

But as long as there's no proper desktop UI I see little reason to drop a grand on it. What I'd gain in productivity from the tablet I'd lose in productivity from the laptop.

Although since I already have to use Windows 8 anyway for some of the remote admin features required for our Server 2012 installs I guess that ship has already sailed...

All current Windows machines (both RT and Windows 8) include a desktop. However, only the Windows 8 machines (which, naturally, run on Intel or AMD x64 processors) have binary compatibility with the desktop applications you're used to, as well as the new Windows Store applications.

If you want one that's good for general computer work, I'd recommend looking at one of the newer Atom-powered Windows 8 tablets. They're in the iPad's general price range and often have optional removable keyboards, some with batteries inside. Battery life (tablet-only, not including the keyboard) is often in the two day range, from my experience with my usage habits. You can plug in all of the hardware you are used to with commodity adapters that can be found in any electronics store in America. An array of hardware configurations exist.

If you need the ability to run Photoshop and the like... the Surface Pro and it's Core i-powered ilk are good choices... but for doing development a ...


I know all of these things, that's not the point.

Windows 8 is the problem. It offers few functional improvements over Windows 7 and introduces a whole host of new problems, including FrankenGUI. Like Vista before it, I see no apparent value in purchasing it when the improvements are minor and the new hassles are major.

I see the potential inherent in the Surface Pro device, but as long as it remains as poorly functional for my purposes as other Windows 8 desktop devices, that potential is overcome by its downsides, especially at a thousand dollars.

It's a good idea, but until they fix the GUI and add some more compelling features to the OS, it's not going to be a good product. I'm not spending a grand to replace my perfectly functional Windows 7 laptop with an OS I've grown to hate just because the keyboard comes off the device its installed on.
 
rpm
2013-02-11 10:54:37 AM  

SleepingEye: Your IT department could arbitrarily impose restrictions on upgrades to your shinies and you'd be stuck with older OSes.  You also neglected to mention each non-Windows "service pack" upgrade is $60+ each time (i.e. from .1 to .2, .2 to .3 is another $120.)


So, how much was Windows 5.0->5.1? Or Windows 6.0->6.1->6.2?
 
2013-02-11 10:55:17 AM  

AlanSmithee: I bought an ASUS slate lat month. Runs on Windows 7, has a superb Wacom pen setup and other good stuff.


just got one a few weeks ago for doing art on the go.  love it so far.
 
2013-02-11 11:08:07 AM  
The real problem is MS releasing very different machines with the same name because it just leads to retards arguing
 
2013-02-11 12:57:00 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Marine1: Vegan Meat Popsicle: farkeruk: I know tablets are the new hotness, but in terms of getting shiat done, a laptop still wins. Other than weighing a few lb less, I don't see the advantage.

I'd be all about it if it switched between the useable Metro UI when operating as a tablet and a tried-and-true proper desktop UI when being used like a laptop. I could see it being very useful in my line of work where I have a very large number of headless servers. I could connect quickly and run scripts while in the server room from my tablet without having to fumble with KVMs and then turn it into a proper workstation when I go back to my desk to do email and write up documents.

But as long as there's no proper desktop UI I see little reason to drop a grand on it. What I'd gain in productivity from the tablet I'd lose in productivity from the laptop.

Although since I already have to use Windows 8 anyway for some of the remote admin features required for our Server 2012 installs I guess that ship has already sailed...

All current Windows machines (both RT and Windows 8) include a desktop. However, only the Windows 8 machines (which, naturally, run on Intel or AMD x64 processors) have binary compatibility with the desktop applications you're used to, as well as the new Windows Store applications.

If you want one that's good for general computer work, I'd recommend looking at one of the newer Atom-powered Windows 8 tablets. They're in the iPad's general price range and often have optional removable keyboards, some with batteries inside. Battery life (tablet-only, not including the keyboard) is often in the two day range, from my experience with my usage habits. You can plug in all of the hardware you are used to with commodity adapters that can be found in any electronics store in America. An array of hardware configurations exist.

If you need the ability to run Photoshop and the like... the Surface Pro and it's Core i-powered ilk are good choices... but for doing deve ...


Well uh... I've been running Windows 8 for a few months now on a desktop... and the GUI isn't a problem. Even less so on the tablet.
 
2013-02-11 04:16:16 PM  

American Decency Association: MrSteve007: Sounds like most Apple launches . . .

Me, a couple days after the iPad 2 launched.

Boss: "Steve, I want to give our major client an iPad as a gift. I'm flying out to see him late tomorrow. See if you can get one before then."
Me: "Ok, I'll see what I can do."

So I called around to the Apple stores, who said that they'd get some more in tomorrow morning, and no, I can't reserve one in advance. I go into the South Center Mall the next morning at 7am (stores open at 9), and see that there's already some 15 people in line in front of the store. I hear chit chat about being able to buy the devices and shipping them overseas for big profit - as one guy was going to buy all he could and ship them to his cousin in Taiwan. Occasionally an Apple store rep comes out and checks on the crowd. Most times, he's asked if they know how many iPads are in stock. He'd lie out of his butt, saying they wouldn't know until they opened the store.

The second the store opened, they announced to the crowd (now some 60 strong), that they only had 8 iPads, and we could try again later in the week, when they would get more in stock. He wouldn't say when, what models or how many they expected. You'd just have to line up each morning before store hours.

I decided to try my luck and head over to the Target on the other side of the mall parking lot. I asked the electronics guy if they had any iPad 2's in stock. His reply: "Yeah, we got an additional 40 in this morning. Lots to choose from. We'll be getting an additional 50 in two days."

Fark you Apple. You build up these launch events, eat up all the press of people lining up out in front of stores, then have your customer service people lie to customers faces ("Oh, we have no idea how many we're getting today, you just have to wait in line until we open our doors"). I hope to never go through that bullshiat again.

/might go pick up a Surface Pro tomorrow.

same thing happened to me for ipad 2...  i was on a mission from the boss ...


Why don't you people just order them from the website???
 
2013-02-11 04:57:24 PM  

L.D. Ablo: Remember when Microsoft had a funeral for the iPhone?

[www.geeky-gadgets.com image 650x388]


ole' Monopoly$oft sold out alright.  Linux and Open Source is going to clean their clock.  Android anyone?
 
2013-02-11 06:38:19 PM  

rpm: SleepingEye: Your IT department could arbitrarily impose restrictions on upgrades to your shinies and you'd be stuck with older OSes.  You also neglected to mention each non-Windows "service pack" upgrade is $60+ each time (i.e. from .1 to .2, .2 to .3 is another $120.)

So, how much was Windows 5.0->5.1? Or Windows 6.0->6.1->6.2?


It's kind of hard to compare that because of how Microsoft does version numbers.

NT 5.0 = 2000
NT 5.1 = XP
NT 5.2 = XP x64
NT 6.0 = Vista
NT 6.1 = 7
NT 6.2 = 8

I'd consider all of those save for XP x64 to be pretty major updates compared to what you get in a kitty-named OSX update.  Service packs in Windows land are just build numbers, even though some of them include significant changes, such as SP2 for XP or SP2 for Vista.  Those both were game changers for their respective OS's.

/kitty kitty kitty
 
2013-02-11 06:47:04 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: it remains as poorly functional for my purposes as other Windows 8 desktop devices


How is it poorly functional? It does every single thing Windows 7 does, some of them better, and has also got a graphical start menu and some full screen apps. There is not a single 'function' missing unless you bizarrely consider the start menu to be functionality, which it is not.
 
2013-02-11 07:08:13 PM  

Marine1: I've been running Windows 8 for a few months now on a desktop... and the GUI isn't a problem.


gaspode: How is it poorly functional?


They are much more eloquent - and qualified - than I am on the subject.
You may like it. You may find it a worthwhile purchase. You may enjoy the new UI. That's fine. But it doesn't change the fact you seem to be a minority among consumers and the experts also strenuously disagree with you.
 
2013-02-11 08:47:29 PM  

gaspode: Vegan Meat Popsicle: it remains as poorly functional for my purposes as other Windows 8 desktop devices

How is it poorly functional? It does every single thing Windows 7 does, some of them better, and has also got a graphical start menu and some full screen apps. There is not a single 'function' missing unless you bizarrely consider the start menu to be functionality, which it is not.




I kind of appreciate the start menu. It's nice to open a laptop and not be hit in the face with work.
 
2013-02-11 10:03:31 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Marine1: I've been running Windows 8 for a few months now on a desktop... and the GUI isn't a problem.

gaspode: How is it poorly functional?

They are much more eloquent - and qualified - than I am on the subject.
You may like it. You may find it a worthwhile purchase. You may enjoy the new UI. That's fine. But it doesn't change the fact you seem to be a minority among consumers and the experts also strenuously disagree with you.


Consumers are idiots; you should know this.

Experts rarely are.

When I can do Visio and development projects during the day and play tablet games at night on another OS, I'll consider the idea that compared to the other OS, Windows 8 sucks. But, as of right now... no, I can't do that on any other operating system/ hardware combination, and that makes Windows 8 tablets very advanced.
 
2013-02-11 10:38:05 PM  

dk47: American Decency Association: MrSteve007: ...


Why don't you people just order them from the website???

same as stated by MrSteve007, 0 days notice.  the iPad 2 release crystalised my boss's status as a fanboi.

/iPhone 5's were delivered on release day
 
2013-02-11 10:47:39 PM  

SleepingEye: marcre3363: When people come into my home office, they're awed by my setup. It looks impressive, but it's simple. A Dell tower with two monitors, a Mac Pro with two monitors.

I use my PC for 85-90% of my work. The Mac is great for Email blasts, video editing and other specialized tasks.

The difference, in my opinion, is that my work Mac (and personal Mac's) are updated with the current OS. I usually wait 3-6 months to upgrade because I use a ton of music software that needs time to upgrade.

On my Window's PC, I'm still running XP. My companies IT Manager is a die-hard Windows guy and he refused to upgrade us to 7 and has been vocal about no one upgrading to 8.

We've had an iPad for several years and it still works like a charm. I'm looking to get an iPad mini, not because it's an Apple, but because it works like I need it to. Not perfect, but predictable.

Retarded comparison is retarded.

Your IT department could arbitrarily impose restrictions on upgrades to your shinies and you'd be stuck with older OSes.  You also neglected to mention each non-Windows "service pack" upgrade is $60+ each time (i.e. from .1 to .2, .2 to .3 is another $120.)

There's no real reason to upgrade (for work anyway).  It's just a make-work project -- as you say, your IT depts have to test *ALL* of your production software rigorously before releasing to everyone.  That's hundreds of hours, all for what?  Nothing.  The only reason to upgrade would be that a piece of software REQUIRES a newer OS... which is to say, almost none (email blasts and an Office suite?)  This is why major business are often 3-4 years "out of date" or skip minor versions: bug fixes in OSes can actually break software (because they were compensating or relying on said bug).

If you pay attention to certain stores' computers, some are still using text terminals and some are Windows 3.1/95... and it's perfectly fine.

Incidentally, what's the point of having two computers?  Either computer is equally capable of per ...


Ignorant poster is Ignorant.

If you'd ever tried using the complete Adobe Suite while After Effects is rendering an effects laden project or you're using a machine to blast 10K emails with 3MB of attachments, you'd understand that you need a second computer to stay productive.

I never said anything about my IT department having to test production software. I said that our IT manager hasn't been impressed with 7 or 8.

To dumb down my post for you to understand it, is that Apple produces updates that are reasonably priced and improve overall productivity. That I can run my Windows machine with an OS that's years out of date, it runs fine and my IT pro's cant give me an reason to upgrade, tells me they aren't innovating.
 
2013-02-12 12:40:50 AM  
I had a Zune and was very sad when it broke.  It worked very well.

Took a look at the Surface.  Nice screen on that thing, it makes a sweet, sweet portable .pdf reader.
 
2013-02-12 12:46:54 AM  

RsquaredW: If I could find a new Zune I would buy it.

// so sad when I lost my 30 last year
// not even the HD version :(


I bought a Samsung Galaxy player to replace my now sadly-dead Zune.  It works similarly well as a media player.
 
2013-02-12 09:28:36 AM  

Marine1: that makes Windows 8 tablets very advanced


It's very advanced because Microsoft added a new type of binary executable?

Marine1: Consumers are idiots;


Were they also idiots when Vista flopped out of the gate or was Vista actually a crappy operating system? And were they still idiots when XP and 7 took off or did they suddenly get smart enough to recognize them as good, useable, productive OSes?

This is why I hate having "debates" about Windows 8 with fans of the OS. They always become so harebrained at the end.

Windows 8 and Surface are selling poorly, consumer response has been lukewarm at best, technical users like system admins have widely criticized it and share mostly the same complaints about how much it gets in their way and NNG tore the new design a gaping asshole based on their useability tests.

These are not all independent coincidences. The OS just sucks donkey balls. You're not in the minority in your view of it because you're some sort of elite user who is able to see past its blemishes to its heart of gold, you're in the minority because you're one of the few people willing to tolerate this monkey-balls-stupid redesign.

You're not going to convince people it's anything but a shiatty system because as soon as you sit them in front of it again it's just going to get in their way like it did the last time and remind them that it's a shiatty system. Maybe once an SP or 2 rolls around it will become as useable as 7 already is, but at that point I may as well just wait for 9.

It's just a garbage OS. They laid an egg just like they did with ME and Vista. That's all there is to it. The people who hate it hate it because it sucks, not because they're not smart enough like you to "get it".
 
2013-02-13 01:33:18 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Marine1: that makes Windows 8 tablets very advanced

It's very advanced because Microsoft added a new type of binary executable?

Marine1: Consumers are idiots;

Were they also idiots when Vista flopped out of the gate or was Vista actually a crappy operating system? And were they still idiots when XP and 7 took off or did they suddenly get smart enough to recognize them as good, useable, productive OSes?

This is why I hate having "debates" about Windows 8 with fans of the OS. They always become so harebrained at the end.

Windows 8 and Surface are selling poorly, consumer response has been lukewarm at best, technical users like system admins have widely criticized it and share mostly the same complaints about how much it gets in their way and NNG tore the new design a gaping asshole based on their useability tests.

These are not all independent coincidences. The OS just sucks donkey balls. You're not in the minority in your view of it because you're some sort of elite user who is able to see past its blemishes to its heart of gold, you're in the minority because you're one of the few people willing to tolerate this monkey-balls-stupid redesign.

You're not going to convince people it's anything but a shiatty system because as soon as you sit them in front of it again it's just going to get in their way like it did the last time and remind them that it's a shiatty system. Maybe once an SP or 2 rolls around it will become as useable as 7 already is, but at that point I may as well just wait for 9.

It's just a garbage OS. They laid an egg just like they did with ME and Vista. That's all there is to it. The people who hate it hate it because it sucks, not because they're not smart enough like you to "get it".


Yeah, it is more advanced because MS introduced a new executable. It gives options on how the machine can best be used. The iPad forces you into one paradigm... and this lets me get creative.

I've been using one of these things for a few weeks now. It gives me options that other tablets just can't match, and it's not out of the price range of other offerings. It's the first time I've been able to really put all of my lighter-duty work into one device.

If you don't like it, fine, but don't whine like it has nothing to offer. It does.
 
2013-02-13 01:34:40 PM  

RockofAges: Guys, I realize this is VERY off topic, but seems we have a lot of tech heads in here. (I like tech myself, write on it occasionally, use it all the time).

I have had a long time interest in electronics hardware. Wiring, soldering, tinkering with boards. I'm looking for an entry-level, nub-scrub, book and perhaps kit recommendation to start learning more about tearing apart old crap and screwing around with components.

Any leads?


Generally, Arduino is a great thing to tinker with. Hardly a bank-breaker at ~$30, either.
 
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