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(ESPN)   Paterno family releases report that rips investigator Louis Freeh a new asshole, which Jerry Sandusky would like to see. NO THE REPORT   (espn.go.com) divider line 197
    More: Ironic, Joe Paterno, Jerry Sandusky, FBI Director Louis Freeh, Beaver Stadium, researchers, Graham Spanier, bad publicity, antitrust laws  
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2690 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 Feb 2013 at 4:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-11 01:50:32 PM  

Champion of the Sun: But there's no evidence he conspired to cover anything up.


I would agree that his sin is one of inaction, not of actively covering or interfering.
 
2013-02-11 01:54:38 PM  

vygramul: Champion of the Sun: But there's no evidence he conspired to cover anything up.

I would agree that his sin is one of inaction, not of actively covering or interfering.


Thanks, no one else I've argued with is even willing to explore that point.  Plenty of hatred for him simply for inaction of course.
 
2013-02-11 02:56:50 PM  

Champion of the Sun: He didn't know players of his were under investigation for assaults either. Didn't know that some had been arrested even. You're making an assertion with no basis in fact, just on the assumption that a guy involved in the football program is all knowing. You and I might have inquired into it. But there's no evidence he had. Kings often don't know what happens below them, and they don't give a shiat either.


You actually  believe the local police were investigating Penn State players and the head couch wasn't aware?

Just keep sticking your head further in the sand.

// although you're right about him not giving a shiat.
 
2013-02-11 03:16:04 PM  

ScreamingHangover: You actually believe the local police were investigating Penn State players and the head couch wasn't aware?


There's some pretty funny videos of reporters bringing up recent arrests and investigations, and he looks like he's totally lost and confused. One of the many reasons people were calling for his ouster in the early 2000s.  There's a lot of debate about how much coaching he actually did over his last decade.  He spent almost two seasons sitting in a press box without head phones on.  Not sure if you've ever talked to any people over 70, but I don't think he had total administrative control over that program in the last decade.  It's just too big an operation for someone that age to run.  Doesn't absolve him of anything, but if he couldn't keep track of his own players getting arrested, could he keep track of potential investigations that didn't result in arrests or charges?
 
2013-02-11 03:49:33 PM  

Champion of the Sun: ScreamingHangover: You actually believe the local police were investigating Penn State players and the head couch wasn't aware?

There's some pretty funny videos of reporters bringing up recent arrests and investigations, and he looks like he's totally lost and confused. One of the many reasons people were calling for his ouster in the early 2000s.  There's a lot of debate about how much coaching he actually did over his last decade.  He spent almost two seasons sitting in a press box without head phones on.  Not sure if you've ever talked to any people over 70, but I don't think he had total administrative control over that program in the last decade.  It's just too big an operation for someone that age to run.  Doesn't absolve him of anything, but if he couldn't keep track of his own players getting arrested, could he keep track of potential investigations that didn't result in arrests or charges?


So what you're saying is that Paterno and his players could pretty much do whatever they wanted, and if called on it, all he had to do was play dumb, and all was forgiven?
 
2013-02-11 03:50:52 PM  

Champion of the Sun: ScreamingHangover: You actually believe the local police were investigating Penn State players and the head couch wasn't aware?

There's some pretty funny videos of reporters bringing up recent arrests and investigations, and he looks like he's totally lost and confused. One of the many reasons people were calling for his ouster in the early 2000s.  There's a lot of debate about how much coaching he actually did over his last decade.  He spent almost two seasons sitting in a press box without head phones on.  Not sure if you've ever talked to any people over 70, but I don't think he had total administrative control over that program in the last decade.  It's just too big an operation for someone that age to run.  Doesn't absolve him of anything, but if he couldn't keep track of his own players getting arrested, could he keep track of potential investigations that didn't result in arrests or charges?


So he was totally incompetent and useless, yet he couldn't be fired?
 
2013-02-11 03:56:42 PM  

ScreamingHangover: So what you're saying is that Paterno and his players could pretty much do whatever they wanted, and if called on it, all he had to do was play dumb, and all was forgiven?


Yanks_RSJ: So he was totally incompetent and useless, yet he couldn't be fired?


Wow, didn't even say anything close to that.  Keep trying though.

Sheeeeeet, I even said it didn't absolve him of anything.  Learn to read assholes
 
2013-02-11 04:00:14 PM  

ScreamingHangover: Champion of the Sun: ScreamingHangover: You actually believe the local police were investigating Penn State players and the head couch wasn't aware?

There's some pretty funny videos of reporters bringing up recent arrests and investigations, and he looks like he's totally lost and confused. One of the many reasons people were calling for his ouster in the early 2000s.  There's a lot of debate about how much coaching he actually did over his last decade.  He spent almost two seasons sitting in a press box without head phones on.  Not sure if you've ever talked to any people over 70, but I don't think he had total administrative control over that program in the last decade.  It's just too big an operation for someone that age to run.  Doesn't absolve him of anything, but if he couldn't keep track of his own players getting arrested, could he keep track of potential investigations that didn't result in arrests or charges?

So what you're saying is that Paterno and his players could pretty much do whatever they wanted, and if called on it, all he had to do was play dumb, and all was forgiven?


A PSU player gets in a fight and arrested. What benefit does he gain playing dumb? You would think he would want to make a comment and downplay it, not look like a deer in headlights saying "what?"
 
2013-02-11 04:03:59 PM  

Champion of the Sun: ScreamingHangover: So what you're saying is that Paterno and his players could pretty much do whatever they wanted, and if called on it, all he had to do was play dumb, and all was forgiven?

Yanks_RSJ: So he was totally incompetent and useless, yet he couldn't be fired?

Wow, didn't even say anything close to that.  Keep trying though.

Sheeeeeet, I even said it didn't absolve him of anything.  Learn to read assholes


Um, yes, you most certainly did:  you made a  pathetic passive-aggressive attempt at quasi-justifying his actions (or inactions). It was really quite sad. Just quit now before you embarrass yourself further.
 
2013-02-11 04:06:07 PM  

DaintySavage: A PSU player gets in a fight and arrested. What benefit does he gain playing dumb?


He gets to put that player in Saturday's game.
 
2013-02-11 04:07:17 PM  

ScreamingHangover: Champion of the Sun: ScreamingHangover: So what you're saying is that Paterno and his players could pretty much do whatever they wanted, and if called on it, all he had to do was play dumb, and all was forgiven?

Yanks_RSJ: So he was totally incompetent and useless, yet he couldn't be fired?

Wow, didn't even say anything close to that.  Keep trying though.

Sheeeeeet, I even said it didn't absolve him of anything.  Learn to read assholes

Um, yes, you most certainly did:  you made a  pathetic passive-aggressive attempt at quasi-justifying his actions (or inactions). It was really quite sad. Just quit now before you embarrass yourself further.


Champion of the Sun: Doesn't absolve him of anything


Learn to read asshole
 
2013-02-11 04:09:03 PM  

Champion of the Sun: Wow, didn't even say anything close to that.  Keep trying though.


Competent head coaches at major college football programs wear headsets during games and know when their players get arrested.
 
2013-02-11 04:09:09 PM  

Champion of the Sun: ScreamingHangover: Champion of the Sun: ScreamingHangover: So what you're saying is that Paterno and his players could pretty much do whatever they wanted, and if called on it, all he had to do was play dumb, and all was forgiven?

Yanks_RSJ: So he was totally incompetent and useless, yet he couldn't be fired?

Wow, didn't even say anything close to that.  Keep trying though.

Sheeeeeet, I even said it didn't absolve him of anything.  Learn to read assholes

Um, yes, you most certainly did:  you made a  pathetic passive-aggressive attempt at quasi-justifying his actions (or inactions). It was really quite sad. Just quit now before you embarrass yourself further.

Champion of the Sun: Doesn't absolve him of anything

Learn to read asshole


I can read. Perfectly fine.
Especially between the lines.
If you really believed that, you wouldn't be posting lame excuses for him.
 
2013-02-11 04:12:59 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Champion of the Sun: Wow, didn't even say anything close to that.  Keep trying though.

Competent head coaches at major college football programs wear headsets during games and know when their players get arrested.


Yeah, I would agree.  Not quite sure how that leads to you think that I said he couldn't be fired.  A lot of people wanted him fired for being out of it, yes.  It was a huge story for a number of seasons.  I don't know enough about PSU to know why they kept him on.
 
2013-02-11 04:16:10 PM  

Champion of the Sun: Yanks_RSJ: Champion of the Sun: Wow, didn't even say anything close to that.  Keep trying though.

Competent head coaches at major college football programs wear headsets during games and know when their players get arrested.

Yeah, I would agree.  Not quite sure how that leads to you think that I said he couldn't be fired.  A lot of people wanted him fired for being out of it, yes.  It was a huge story for a number of seasons.  I don't know enough about PSU to know why they kept him on.


Yet you know enough to show up here and make excuses for the man.
 
2013-02-11 04:31:26 PM  

schuylkill: js34603: Well, I personally refuse to believe anything in this report. After all it was prepared on behalf of Paterno's family by someone they paid! How can you trust that?
.
I'll stick with the Freeh report that Penn State paid someone to write on their behalf. You can trust them, they'd never cover anything up.

I am not a Paterno defender - just a PSU grad who wants to know what the fark went on up there. But, yeah, no one ever threw a dead guy under the bus before. Because that would like, be a first.

Though I find it hilarious that a former US Atty General is bashing the investigative skills of a former FBI director. He's probably use to the FBI farking up cases for him...


Freeh's investigation started prior to JoePa's death. He refused to talk to the investigators.

It's pretty easy to see what went on. JoePa and his bosses all pretended not to see what the perv was up to because of an old fashioned mindset that you didn't talk about such nasty things. They weren't pro-molestation or anything. They simply didn't want to face something that horrible and drag their school into it to boot.
 
2013-02-11 04:36:53 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: So he was totally incompetent and useless, yet he couldn't be fired?


The way I see it, he could have been fired.  They could have unceremoniously canned him back in the early 2000's when the team was just awful.  He didn't exercise some mythical power over the administration of the university.  BUT, there were enough people that were enamored with him that firing him or forcing him to retire would have caused a massive public backlash.  Alumni donations may have suffered (oh noes!), and the administration would have looked bad to the Paterno-loving public.  He had no authority over the administration, they just saw firing him as bad PR.  So when they "asked" him to step down, his ego took over and he said no, knowing they didn't have the stones to actually fire him.
 
2013-02-11 04:40:55 PM  

Champion of the Sun: Yeah, I would agree.  Not quite sure how that leads to you think that I said he couldn't be fired.  A lot of people wanted him fired for being out of it, yes.  It was a huge story for a number of seasons.  I don't know enough about PSU to know why they kept him on.


They probably wanted to avoid a riot on campus for as long as possible.
 
2013-02-11 04:46:00 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Champion of the Sun: ScreamingHangover: You actually believe the local police were investigating Penn State players and the head couch wasn't aware?

There's some pretty funny videos of reporters bringing up recent arrests and investigations, and he looks like he's totally lost and confused. One of the many reasons people were calling for his ouster in the early 2000s.  There's a lot of debate about how much coaching he actually did over his last decade.  He spent almost two seasons sitting in a press box without head phones on.  Not sure if you've ever talked to any people over 70, but I don't think he had total administrative control over that program in the last decade.  It's just too big an operation for someone that age to run.  Doesn't absolve him of anything, but if he couldn't keep track of his own players getting arrested, could he keep track of potential investigations that didn't result in arrests or charges?
.
So he was totally incompetent and useless, yet he couldn't be fired?


Yes, exactly. He was a figurehead but a powerful one. Think about it, he's dead and disgraced and still being discussed more than many coaches. He WAS Penn St. That's one of the reasons I dismiss as a total BS line his "I told my bosses" defense. For all intents and purposes JoePa didn't have a boss when it came to the football program. he may not have been X and Oing the team so much anymore but his word was law in that place. His failure to put a stop to Sandusky when it was brought to his attention was an inexcusable moral lapse.
 
2013-02-11 04:48:12 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Champion of the Sun: Yeah, I would agree.  Not quite sure how that leads to you think that I said he couldn't be fired.  A lot of people wanted him fired for being out of it, yes.  It was a huge story for a number of seasons.  I don't know enough about PSU to know why they kept him on.

They probably wanted to avoid a riot on campus for as long as possible.


I was talking about him not being fired in the early part of the decade for losing, not the whole child rape thing.
 
2013-02-11 05:14:32 PM  

ScreamingHangover: Champion of the Sun: Yanks_RSJ: Champion of the Sun: ***snip***

Yet you know enough to show up here and make excuses for the man.


Champion of the Sunis only pointing out that there is no hard evidence that Paterno was complicit in a cover up.   CotSnever really says (in this thread, to my knowledge) that Paterno deserves less of the scorn and disgust that he is getting.   To agree with that point, however, you have to make the assumption that Paterno had little to no knowledge of what was going on in his locker room and with his staff.  Which, I personally don't, but I can't point to one piece of damning evidence that has been revealed so far.

The only way something definitive occurs is if Curley, Schultz, and Spanier all provide corroborating testimony about what Paterno knew and when.  I am not sure why they would, but then again, I thought Lance Armstrong would go to his grave claiming he was clean despite all evidence to the contrary.
 
2013-02-11 05:25:12 PM  

roc6783: Champion of the Sunis only pointing out that there is no hard evidence that Paterno was complicit in a cover up. CotSnever really says (in this thread, to my knowledge) that Paterno deserves less of the scorn and disgust that he is getting. To agree with that point, however, you have to make the assumption that Paterno had little to no knowledge of what was going on in his locker room and with his staff. Which, I personally don't, but I can't point to one piece of damning evidence that has been revealed so far.

The only way something definitive occurs is if Curley, Schultz, and Spanier all provide corroborating testimony about what Paterno knew and when. I am not sure why they would, but then again, I thought Lance Armstrong would go to his grave claiming he was clean despite all evidence to the contrary.


Yeah, I've said about twenty times that he deserves to lose his legacy and he is far from innocent.  Inaction is enough to hate the man.  I just don't think people should be calling him a child rape enabler or that he was engaged in a conspiracy to cover it up or aid in it.  The evidence doesn't show that.  Curly, Schultz, and Spanier, yeah, those guys should burn.  Joe should be hated.  But stating that he engaged in a conspiracy to aid child rape, when both reports say the opposite, is not right.
 
2013-02-11 06:03:25 PM  

Champion of the Sun: Coach_J: Champion of the Sun: Kings often don't know what happens below them, and they don't give a shiat either.

It's so telling that you are comparing a football coach to a King.  Honestly...you people are delusional idolizing nutjobs.

Free piece of advice...stay away from any Cult recruiting events...

Listen brah, I compared him to a king because everyone's excuse for claiming he knew what was happening is that he was the undisputed master of PSU.  If people want to say he ran it like his own little fiefdom, I'll compare him to a king.

Not a Penn State fan, just don't like people casually calling people reap enablers.  It kinda diminishes the charge against people who deserve the moniker


This.  It's like calling everyone who ever served in the military 'Hero'.  Or people who smoke pot terrorism financiers.

One of the first things I did was read the Freeh report cover to cover, and I was appalled at what happened, but what was in the report was NOTHING like what is being said or tossed about on the internet.  And to take the quote "Wish I had done more" to suggest it means "I knew, and I wish I had done something when I knew" is horribly dishonest.  I've been interviewed by CPS in the past regarding a daycare that was physically abusing children, and you look back and question every single 'bruise, scrape, rash' and think to yourself 'If only I had realized that the scrape wasn't a scrape from slipping from the jungle gym but a scrape from duct tape being ripped from the skin...'  The natural reaction is always to wish that you had done more, or noticed it sooner, or just... anything.

It's very important for these reports to be done carefully and professionally because if we don't understand how these things come to pass, we can't properly protect against them happening in the future.  Burning at the stake sounds cathartic, but it just causes everyone who might be able to help, prevent, or stop these things from happening to put on blinders and try not to get involved.
 
2013-02-11 06:07:55 PM  

Champion of the Sun: Yeah, I've said about twenty times that he deserves to lose his legacy and he is far from innocent. Inaction is enough to hate the man. I just don't think people should be calling him a child rape enabler or that he was engaged in a conspiracy to cover it up or aid in it. The evidence doesn't show that. Curly, Schultz, and Spanier, yeah, those guys should burn. Joe should be hated. But stating that he engaged in a conspiracy to aid child rape, when both reports say the opposite, is not right.


The Freeh report's most damning accusation was that he didn't

roc6783: ScreamingHangover: Champion of the Sun: Yanks_RSJ: Champion of the Sun: ***snip***

Yet you know enough to show up here and make excuses for the man.

Champion of the Sunis only pointing out that there is no hard evidence that Paterno was complicit in a cover up.   CotSnever really says (in this thread, to my knowledge) that Paterno deserves less of the scorn and disgust that he is getting.   To agree with that point, however, you have to make the assumption that Paterno had little to no knowledge of what was going on in his locker room and with his staff.  Which, I personally don't, but I can't point to one piece of damning evidence that has been revealed so far.

The only way something definitive occurs is if Curley, Schultz, and Spanier all provide corroborating testimony about what Paterno knew and when.  I am not sure why they would, but then again, I thought Lance Armstrong would go to his grave claiming he was clean despite all evidence to the contrary.


I really wish we could clone Curley, Shultz, McQueary, and Spanier and give them immunity from prosecution just so we could get an actual understanding of what happened without the inevitable cover your ass statements which they all are basically required to give.  With the threat of prosecution hanging over all of them, none of them has any reason to say anything.  And offering a plea to one to 'dime out' the others is just going to taint the testimony.
 
2013-02-11 06:14:43 PM  

Digitalstrange: Freeh's investigation started prior to JoePa's death. He refused to talk to the investigators.


I'm not sure that's true.  I'd like a citation if you have one. It's quite possible.

However, even a GED in law will tell you that it is a 'bad idea' to speak with an investigator of a crime after the fact and before all trials are concluded.  "Never talk to the police" is all around good advice.
 
2013-02-11 06:17:37 PM  

Champion of the Sun: ScreamingHangover: So what you're saying is that Paterno and his players could pretty much do whatever they wanted, and if called on it, all he had to do was play dumb, and all was forgiven?

Yanks_RSJ: So he was totally incompetent and useless, yet he couldn't be fired?

Wow, didn't even say anything close to that.  Keep trying though.

Sheeeeeet, I even said it didn't absolve him of anything.  Learn to read assholes


It's in the FarQ.  If you don't call for summary execution by fire ants, you are an enabler/apologist.   If you comment that the sky is cloudy without wishing death...   These threads are mostly full of trolls.
 
2013-02-11 06:19:04 PM  

kim jong-un: Digitalstrange: Freeh's investigation started prior to JoePa's death. He refused to talk to the investigators.

I'm not sure that's true.  I'd like a citation if you have one. It's quite possible.

However, even a GED in law will tell you that it is a 'bad idea' to speak with an investigator of a crime after the fact and before all trials are concluded.  "Never talk to the police" is all around good advice.


Freeh's investigation started two months before he died, but didn't have a chance to talk to him.

Paterno did not refuse.
 
2013-02-11 06:20:19 PM  

kim jong-un: Digitalstrange: Freeh's investigation started prior to JoePa's death. He refused to talk to the investigators.

I'm not sure that's true.  I'd like a citation if you have one. It's quite possible.

However, even a GED in law will tell you that it is a 'bad idea' to speak with an investigator of a crime after the fact and before all trials are concluded.  "Never talk to the police" is all around good advice.


He didn't talk to Freeh.  But he was also dying of lung cancer at the time.  Kinda understandable.  Not to mention Joe already went over all of it with the grand jury while under oath.  Not sure what else he would've revealed.
 
2013-02-11 06:32:22 PM  

kim jong-un: Champion of the Sun: Coach_J: Champion of the Sun: Kings often don't know what happens below them, and they don't give a shiat either.

It's so telling that you are comparing a football coach to a King.  Honestly...you people are delusional idolizing nutjobs.

Free piece of advice...stay away from any Cult recruiting events...

Listen brah, I compared him to a king because everyone's excuse for claiming he knew what was happening is that he was the undisputed master of PSU.  If people want to say he ran it like his own little fiefdom, I'll compare him to a king.

Not a Penn State fan, just don't like people casually calling people reap enablers.  It kinda diminishes the charge against people who deserve the moniker

This.  It's like calling everyone who ever served in the military 'Hero'.  Or people who smoke pot terrorism financiers.

One of the first things I did was read the Freeh report cover to cover, and I was appalled at what happened, but what was in the report was NOTHING like what is being said or tossed about on the internet.  And to take the quote "Wish I had done more" to suggest it means "I knew, and I wish I had done something when I knew" is horribly dishonest.  I've been interviewed by CPS in the past regarding a daycare that was physically abusing children, and you look back and question every single 'bruise, scrape, rash' and think to yourself 'If only I had realized that the scrape wasn't a scrape from slipping from the jungle gym but a scrape from duct tape being ripped from the skin...'  The natural reaction is always to wish that you had done more, or noticed it sooner, or just... anything.

It's very important for these reports to be done carefully and professionally because if we don't understand how these things come to pass, we can't properly protect against them happening in the future.  Burning at the stake sounds cathartic, but it just causes everyone who might be able to help, prevent, or stop these things from happening to put on blin ...


I'm not disagreeing with you: this is true that there is no one particular piece of evidence directly connecting Paterno to a cover-up. My main contention with Champion of the Sun's position is the "Old Geezer" defense: that Paterno was too old and forgetful. I would buy it if the scandal happened in the last year or 2 of his life, or if he had stepped down at some point due to incapacity. But for him to continue coaching for more than 10 years after the events? Nope: ain't buying the geezer defense.

If the best rationalization one can come up with is that the head coach of one of the nation's premier college football programs was senile and mentally feeble for 10+ seasons, it's apparent that your head's in the sand and you want it to stay that way.
 
2013-02-11 06:35:50 PM  

vygramul: kim jong-un: Digitalstrange: Freeh's investigation started prior to JoePa's death. He refused to talk to the investigators.

I'm not sure that's true.  I'd like a citation if you have one. It's quite possible.

However, even a GED in law will tell you that it is a 'bad idea' to speak with an investigator of a crime after the fact and before all trials are concluded.  "Never talk to the police" is all around good advice.

Freeh's investigation started two months before he died, but didn't have a chance to talk to him.

Paterno did not refuse.


Just goes to show you how dishonest the Freeh report is. He, and the people attempting to villify this man as a child rapist enabler posed it in such a way that he didn't speak to them because he was somehow guilty of something. Considering he died 2 months after the investigation started, I find it at BEST, a disgustingly dishonest representation.

Then again, we're dealing with sports here. Any chance to shiat all over a legendary coach and no one is going to think twice about pesky things like "facts."
 
2013-02-11 06:39:55 PM  

Coach_J: And there is on more nail in the coffin of that pedo-enabler.  If the Paterno family had ANY evidence worth a shiat that really cleared JoePa's name, they would be suing everything that isn't nailed down.

Read this article...make up your own mind.

"In the end, though, the "Critique" did little to nothing to suggest Paterno didn't know in 1998. The report brought to light no new facts. So, barring further evidence being uncovered during the criminal cases expected later this year, the Freeh conclusion remains the far most likely scenario. "

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--paterno-family-report-does-littl e- to-diminish-belief-coach-knew-of-first-sandusky-allegation-184221077.h tml


Gotta love the ignorance in these posts. "When there's absolutely no evidence that suggests Paterno knew anything in 1998, you HAVE to present evidence he didn't, or else, we'll keep on believing unsupported bullshiat."

This is really the exact kind of person that encompasses everything that is wrong with America
 
2013-02-11 06:46:58 PM  

ScreamingHangover: I'm not disagreeing with you: this is true that there is no one particular piece of evidence directly connecting Paterno to a cover-up. My main contention with Champion of the Sun's position is the "Old Geezer" defense: that Paterno was too old and forgetful. I would buy it if the scandal happened in the last year or 2 of his life, or if he had stepped down at some point due to incapacity. But for him to continue coaching for more than 10 years after the events? Nope: ain't buying the geezer defense.


Listen honey, in this thread, and the thousands before it.  People claim that JoePa must be guilty, because how could he not know there was an investigation into Sandusky.  He wasn't even aware of arrests and investigations of his own players.  That's the reason that was brought up.  If you weren't such a blind asshole you would've seen that in the 20+ posts I talked about it.  People use his being the all knowing all seeing head of Penn State football as proof that he knew the Sandusky was a pederast.  To counter that, I show that he wasn't even aware that players had been arrested.  And this was contemporaneous to the shower incident.  My only assertion is that there is no proof that he conspired to cover up child rape nor facilitate in it.  That's it.  People should get their facts right before they go into histrionics.

Him being old and incompetent doesn't excuse anything.  But you can't claim that he knew every single thing that ever happened in relation to PSU football when he wasn't even aware of his players getting arrested.
 
2013-02-11 07:01:47 PM  

Champion of the Sun: Him being old and incompetent doesn't excuse anything. But you can't claim that he knew every single thing that ever happened in relation to PSU football when he wasn't even aware of his players getting arrested.


Well, what can I say: the man apparently had a very selective form of senility that allowed him to magically guide one of the nation's premier sports programs while sitting on top of the heap of one of the most competitive jobs markets on the planet for over a decade. But the minute a discrepancy with the behavior of one of his staff or players occurs, he suddenly turns into Grandpa Simpson.

Truly remarkable.
 
2013-02-11 07:10:40 PM  

ScreamingHangover: Champion of the Sun: Him being old and incompetent doesn't excuse anything. But you can't claim that he knew every single thing that ever happened in relation to PSU football when he wasn't even aware of his players getting arrested.

Well, what can I say: the man apparently had a very selective form of senility that allowed him to magically guide one of the nation's premier sports programs while sitting on top of the heap of one of the most competitive jobs markets on the planet for over a decade. But the minute a discrepancy with the behavior of one of his staff or players occurs, he suddenly turns into Grandpa Simpson.

Truly remarkable.


Or a figurehead who missed bowl games four of five seasons while this was all happening.  Look at their records in the last fifteen years.  Mediocrity, especially for a school and coach with so much history.  He spent nearly two seasons sitting in the press box without head phones on while other people coached the team.  The team got better as he got older and less involved.  He wasn't some dynamo who was controlling the entire organization, which is the equivalent of a multi million dollar business.  He was a face and a name.  His son and the other coaches most likely ran it and did all the administrative stuff.  He just went on recruiting trips to scream at people

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-11 07:13:41 PM  

Champion of the Sun: ScreamingHangover: Champion of the Sun: Him being old and incompetent doesn't excuse anything. But you can't claim that he knew every single thing that ever happened in relation to PSU football when he wasn't even aware of his players getting arrested.

Well, what can I say: the man apparently had a very selective form of senility that allowed him to magically guide one of the nation's premier sports programs while sitting on top of the heap of one of the most competitive jobs markets on the planet for over a decade. But the minute a discrepancy with the behavior of one of his staff or players occurs, he suddenly turns into Grandpa Simpson.

Truly remarkable.

Or a figurehead who missed bowl games four of five seasons while this was all happening.  Look at their records in the last fifteen years.  Mediocrity, especially for a school and coach with so much history.  He spent nearly two seasons sitting in the press box without head phones on while other people coached the team.  The team got better as he got older and less involved.  He wasn't some dynamo who was controlling the entire organization, which is the equivalent of a multi million dollar business.  He was a face and a name.  His son and the other coaches most likely ran it and did all the administrative stuff.  He just went on recruiting trips to scream at people

[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 298x169]


Interesting. So why was none of this mentioned in either the Freeh report or -more particularly-  the one his family commissioned?
 
2013-02-11 07:21:20 PM  

ScreamingHangover:
[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 298x169]

Interesting. So why was none of this mentioned in either the Freeh report or -more particularly-  the one his family commissioned?


Because it's not at all relevant except to point out that people who claim that he was the all knowing all seeing head of penn state are wrong.  How do you not get this?

ScreamingHangover: I'm not disagreeing with you: this is true that there is no one particular piece of evidence directly connecting Paterno to a cover-up. My main contention with Champion of the Sun's position is the "Old Geezer" defense: that Paterno was too old and forgetful. I would buy it if the scandal happened in the last year or 2 of his life, or if he had stepped down at some point due to incapacity. But for him to continue coaching for more than 10 years after the events? Nope: ain't buying the geezer defense.


So I showed you how, yeah, there is some aspect of the geezer defense.  His teams were horrible while the shower raping was going on and he wasn't even aware that his players had been arrested and investigated for a bunch of stuff.  People were calling for his head, he was too valuable to the university to get canned though.

biatch, I give you everything you ask for.  Please twist this anyway you want, whatever makes you happy.
 
2013-02-11 07:26:56 PM  
67.18.219.83

/ "I don't know and I don't wanna Know" -pa
 
2013-02-11 07:31:08 PM  

Champion of the Sun: biatch, I give you everything you ask for. Please twist this anyway you want, whatever makes you happy.


So here we has an individual who has run one of the nation's premier sports programs for decades. Not one of his staff, his family,  nor any of his players -hundreds of people who worked with him on a daily basis over the past decade- has mentioned any mental deficiency whatsoever.

Yet here you are, -having never met the man- claiming that he was mentally deficient and functionally senile.

So who's doing the twisting here?
 
2013-02-11 09:07:13 PM  

Champion of the Sun: roc6783: ***snip***  The evidence doesn't show that.  Curly, Schultz, and Spanier, yeah, those guys should burn.  Joe should be hated.  But stating that he engaged in a conspiracy to aid child rape, when both reports say the opposite, is not right.


And the bold part is where you keep tripping people up.  The Freeh Report takes e-mails that refer to a "him" or "the coach" and attributes Paterno as the subject, which makes him knowledgeable about the cover up, and in one instance an e-mail suggests that he recommends not going to authorities.  I can't say what the Paterno family report says beyond the fact that it disagrees with the attributions in the Freeh report.  Neither one shows that Paterno was NOT part of the cover up just as much as the other guys.
 
2013-02-11 09:42:35 PM  

roc6783: Champion of the Sun: roc6783: ***snip***  The evidence doesn't show that.  Curly, Schultz, and Spanier, yeah, those guys should burn.  Joe should be hated.  But stating that he engaged in a conspiracy to aid child rape, when both reports say the opposite, is not right.

And the bold part is where you keep tripping people up.  The Freeh Report takes e-mails that refer to a "him" or "the coach" and attributes Paterno as the subject, which makes him knowledgeable about the cover up, and in one instance an e-mail suggests that he recommends not going to authorities.  I can't say what the Paterno family report says beyond the fact that it disagrees with the attributions in the Freeh report.  Neither one shows that Paterno was NOT part of the cover up just as much as the other guys.


Show so exact quotes or stfu and gtfo with your lies. Thanks.
 
2013-02-12 01:07:11 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: Joe ran cover for a pedo. No amount of reports attacking the people who investigated it will change that fact


All of you saying this , I *THINK* thats the point of the story here, that the accusation Freeh made was not accurate.  But hey, go on trouncing a man who, before this report, you would have had no reason to believe anything horrible about.

/ not that you should trust the family's interpretation for God sake....
 
2013-02-12 11:43:23 AM  

justtray: roc6783: Champion of the Sun: roc6783: ***snip***  

Show so exact quotes or stfu and gtfo with your lies. Thanks.


Ummm...what the hell did I say that could even be possibly interpreted as a lie?  I said neither report definitively shows whether or not Paterno was part of a cover up, and people's opinions will likely be swayed by whether or not they think a head coach of a major football program would have no clue about what is going on in his locker room or with his staff.  I also said that the only way a definitive answer could be found is if the other people charged with the cover up all had corroborating accounts of what Paterno knew and when he knew, but also noted that I do not think it is very likely that will ever happen as it would not serve any of their interests to reveal that information publicly or privately.

Please enlighten me as to where I said anything that is not true.
 
2013-02-12 11:44:32 AM  

DaintySavage: gimmegimme: Champion of the Sun: gimmegimme: I guess you're right. If someone told me that my buddy was doing "something of a sexual nature" to a young boy, I would tell my boss and then completely forget about it without asking another question ever.

Yeah, I would report it to the police too.  But as far as I know, neither of us in a 75 year old man who is in charge of a multi-million dollar enterprise.  A decrepit old football coach was told this information, he put it in the hands of his bosses and the campus police.  Should he have called the state police instead?  Is calling 911 better than telling a police chief?

But a grad assistant coach told him an incredible story, he told his bosses, they said they'd investigate it and take care of it.  He told the right people about it.  It wasn't morally enough, probably.  I just don't see how it's cool to say he conspired to cover up child rape based on what he knew about the situation.  His bosses for sure though, they knew more about it and worked to cover it up.

He deserves to lose his legacy, perfectly reasonable to say he didn't do enough.

Paterno did not call the "police."  He called the guy who orders Post-its for the police.  If someone is breaking into my home, I'm not, for example, going to call the HR rep for the policemen's union.  I'm going to call the police.

And if he knew that Sandusky had raped children and took no action to bring Sandusky to justice (as you concede), how is he not part of the cover-up?

Ok, i've read enough of your crap. Let's get a few things out in the open first.
1) I hate PSU
2) I have laughed at the video of JP crapping his pants on the sideline many a time
3) I absolutely despise PSU fans

Now that is out of the way, you are just being a huge jackass. The person he told, Schultz, was the man who had direct contact with the police, not some HR person ordering sharpies. Down playing his position to such an extreme degree makes you look like an uneducated moron. The grown man ...


And the reason no one said anything was fear of speaking out against an incredibly powerful entity on campus, the football program.  If only there was someone in charge of that program who could have stopped this...
 
2013-02-12 12:59:55 PM  
Nice to see that time to think and new information has not even slightly abated the inane, frothing at the mouth reaction of most people to this story.

"NO NO NO DONT WANNA HEAR ANY I JUST KNOW WHAT I KNOW JOE PA EVIL FOOTBALL CULTURE DERP DERP DERP"
 
2013-02-12 02:51:15 PM  
Still no word on DA(who was actually in a position to get the ball rolling with a posecution) that went missing.  Don't know how much the school could have even done at the time with only allegations (even if there was eye witnesses) and no criminal charges.
 
2013-02-12 10:03:17 PM  

born_yesterday: Does anyone else remember the ESPN ad for college football, the one that had all the coaches trying to recruit the ad's protagonist? The one where JoPa literally--and I mean literally--growls at the camera "Come to Penn State!", then snarls? I've always wondered, WTF were they thinking?


Big Ten Network, and it was on for at least 3 years before the allegations.
 
2013-02-12 10:05:35 PM  

flynn80: Still no word on DA(who was actually in a position to get the ball rolling with a posecution) that went missing.  Don't know how much the school could have even done at the time with only allegations (even if there was eye witnesses) and no criminal charges.


A case this big could've gone to the Pennsylvania AG.  And it did.  But the AG at the time had better things to do...like become governor and pass the buck on to the next AG, who proceeded to fumble.

/Yeah, if Corbett is being truthful in saying he had a case against Sandusky as AG, he's just as culpable as Curley and Schultz, and probably should be impeached over it.
 
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