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(Daily Mail)   Maker's Mark will water down their bourbon. Insist it will still taste great and be less filling   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 185
    More: Unlikely, Maker, John Smith  
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13333 clicks; posted to Business » on 10 Feb 2013 at 5:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



185 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-02-10 11:17:20 AM  
This is an outrage and I demand that we protest!
 
2013-02-10 11:25:57 AM  
I like Maker's Mark and it makes me want to buy a few bottles of existing stock to last me a couple years.

Unless they have a marketing plan like New Coke...
 
2013-02-10 11:47:33 AM  
This IS an outrage

/and where's the sad tag?
//crying in its bourbon?
 
2013-02-10 11:54:32 AM  
This is a big f*cking deal. Look for riots at Fark HQ.
 
2013-02-10 01:05:25 PM  
What, did InBev buy out Maker's Mark?
 
2013-02-10 02:01:49 PM  
Not 3% but three percentage points which is -6.7%  (0.42-0.45)/0.45

/and that's one to grow on
 
2013-02-10 02:55:28 PM  
I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.
 
2013-02-10 03:27:24 PM  
Bad news then. You better not hope Fark has anymore server issues with more water in their tech's fuel

beerspill.fark.com
 
2013-02-10 03:37:35 PM  
It tastes watered down... and is.
 
2013-02-10 04:15:06 PM  
The owners of Maker's Mark, which is distilled Loretto, Kentucky, said they are unable to produce the bourbon fast enough.

Well if the store down the street would stop selling the 1.75 for $40 maybe they could slow down the sales a bit.

Ok, real talk, they stopped that sale, so I stopped buying it. I started buying Larceny bourbon for $44 for the 1.75.

But then again, I just bought a bottle of Baker's for $35. A 750, though.
 
2013-02-10 04:22:34 PM  
 
2013-02-10 04:39:14 PM  

jaylectricity: The owners of Maker's Mark, which is distilled Loretto, Kentucky, said they are unable to produce the bourbon fast enough.

Well if the store down the street would stop selling the 1.75 for $40 maybe they could slow down the sales a bit.

Ok, real talk, they stopped that sale, so I stopped buying it. I started buying Larceny bourbon for $44 for the 1.75.

But then again, I just bought a bottle of Baker's for $35. A 750, though.


A 1.75 is $60 here in NC.
 
2013-02-10 05:01:01 PM  

cmunic8r99: A 1.75 is $60 here in NC.


This is one of the problems I have with "capitalism". That Larceny bourbon I was talking about? Yeah, most places have it for about $24 a 750, but then one place is trying to sell it for $30. That same place is selling Beefeater Gin for $27 a 1.75L where everywhere else it's $29.
 
2013-02-10 05:07:54 PM  

jaylectricity: cmunic8r99: A 1.75 is $60 here in NC.

This is one of the problems I have with "capitalism". That Larceny bourbon I was talking about? Yeah, most places have it for about $24 a 750, but then one place is trying to sell it for $30. That same place is selling Beefeater Gin for $27 a 1.75L where everywhere else it's $29.


Not really capitalism here.
 
2013-02-10 05:11:58 PM  

hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.


Tried Eagle Rare? I like Woodford, but prefer Eagle Rare.

/really prefer Elijah Craig 18, but they won't have any more of that for another year...
 
2013-02-10 05:22:50 PM  

timujin: hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.

Tried Eagle Rare? I like Woodford, but prefer Eagle Rare.

/really prefer Elijah Craig 18, but they won't have any more of that for another year...


Good bourbon is its own reward. There are fantastic small batch bourbons out there. Even Evan Williams does some great reserve small batches that are not just passable, but downright tasty. I can't say that I'm a huge fan of Scotch, but bourbon gives me warm fuzzies and even that sub-cockle region. I can't say a lot of Jack, even their small batch stuff, because their process gives the bourbon that distinctive, and to me, that vaguely petroleum aftertaste that I'm not much a fan of, but Woodford's standard fare is something that you can expect in most decent bars, and to deliver without fail. At home? I can afford to experiment and play around, and after my time in Colorado and the islands, I'm really having a great time with rums, but when I'm out and about, and want a decent bourbon, Woodford is widely available, and never fails.
 
2013-02-10 05:28:34 PM  
I been drinking Kessler's out of a big plastic bottle. I like it. Problem?
 
2013-02-10 05:31:52 PM  
No prob. I'll just use a little less Hawaiian Punch to mix it with.
 
2013-02-10 05:32:02 PM  
I was tempted to post this yesterday with the title

"Someone please put Drew on suicide watch"
 
2013-02-10 05:32:08 PM  
Meh, just mix it with less Mountain Dew.
 
2013-02-10 05:34:28 PM  
This is bad news for Obama.
I mean, uh, for Drew Curtis.
 
2013-02-10 05:36:14 PM  
Meh, I'll stick with Wild Turkey.  They put their money into the product, not marketing.

The crap that Makers Mark sends out to promote their products is worth about 10x as much as I've ever spent on their products.
 
2013-02-10 05:38:06 PM  

NewportBarGuy: This is an outrage and I demand that we protest!


Ok. I'll go buy some Buffalo Trace.
 
2013-02-10 05:40:10 PM  
images2.wikia.nocookie.net

Scotch and beer kind of guy.
 
2013-02-10 05:40:59 PM  

NewportBarGuy: This is an outrage and I demand that we protest!


Well, the Fark server has been flaky today, so there's that.

/This is an outage and I demand we protest!

img.fark.net
 
2013-02-10 05:41:18 PM  
'Usually you're going to notice that. If I started putting a half shot of water in the bottom of everyone's beer just to make the keg last longer they'd notice.'I've never tried it, but I dunno that they would. Not unless they were expecting it.
 
2013-02-10 05:42:52 PM  
I don't get it?  Isn't this a basic supply and demand scenario?  Demand increases, supply remains constant, so price increases.  Why is adulteration of the product preferable to raising the price?  Now they're going to have reduced demand because they're watering down the product to increase the supply.
 
2013-02-10 05:43:01 PM  

St_Francis_P: This is a big f*cking deal. Look for riots at Fark HQ.


This is why I hope some of our $5/mo. goes towards a "bail Drew and the rest of the Fark crew outta the hoosegow" fund.

/it's expensive to bail out on arson charges
//even if it was just a garbage can
 
2013-02-10 05:44:32 PM  

timujin: Tried Eagle Rare?


Oh yeah, that's a good one.
 
2013-02-10 05:44:44 PM  

Earguy: I like Maker's Mark and it makes me want to buy a few bottles of existing stock to last me a couple years.


'A few' bottles will last you a couple years? I'm thinking our definitions of 'a few' are radically different.
 
2013-02-10 05:44:48 PM  
So it's 86 proof instead of 90? Still higher than most US-market booze, which averages 80 proof.
 
2013-02-10 05:44:52 PM  
FTA: It announced that the bourbon - which used the slogan 'It tastes expensive... and is' - will drop its alcohol content by there per cent.

It will now be reduced to 42 per cent ABV from 45 per cent.


Was the editor inebriated when proofing the article?
 
2013-02-10 05:46:37 PM  
Reinforcing my decision to drink only single malts rather than American swill.
 
2013-02-10 05:46:50 PM  
However, other drinkers said the volume of the alcohol was not crucial to how enjoyable it is.

Lies. Why else would I be drinking something that tastes like sawdust if not for the alcohol content?
 
2013-02-10 05:48:03 PM  

John Buck 41: Earguy: I like Maker's Mark and it makes me want to buy a few bottles of existing stock to last me a couple years.

'A few' bottles will last you a couple years? I'm thinking our definitions of 'a few' are radically different.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-10 05:48:07 PM  
Maker's Mark is for girls already. Reak men drink Old Grand-Dad 100 proof.
 
2013-02-10 05:48:13 PM  

Fail in Human Form: I was tempted to post this yesterday with the title

"Someone please put Drew on suicide watch"


Yours would've been better, but subtlety doesn't always go over well here.
 
2013-02-10 05:48:54 PM  

hubiestubert: timujin: hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.

Tried Eagle Rare? I like Woodford, but prefer Eagle Rare.

/really prefer Elijah Craig 18, but they won't have any more of that for another year...

Good bourbon is its own reward. There are fantastic small batch bourbons out there. Even Evan Williams does some great reserve small batches that are not just passable, but downright tasty. I can't say that I'm a huge fan of Scotch, but bourbon gives me warm fuzzies and even that sub-cockle region. I can't say a lot of Jack, even their small batch stuff, because their process gives the bourbon that distinctive, and to me, that vaguely petroleum aftertaste that I'm not much a fan of, but Woodford's standard fare is something that you can expect in most decent bars, and to deliver without fail. At home? I can afford to experiment and play around, and after my time in Colorado and the islands, I'm really having a great time with rums, but when I'm out and about, and want a decent bourbon, Woodford is widely available, and never fails.


Love me some rum.  I recently found out that in a lot of other places, rum is counted as a whiskey, at least when it comes to sales figures.

If you can find it in your neck of the woods, check out Kōloa spiced rum.  It's from Kuau'i and is quite tasty.  It's only been around for a few years, though, so it might not have made it there yet.

Ron Del Barrilito Three Star from Puerto Rico is another good one.
 
2013-02-10 05:49:04 PM  
Meh, I'll stick with Bulleit rye.
 
2013-02-10 05:50:36 PM  
Raise the price, don't drop the quality.

45%.

Own it.
 
2013-02-10 05:50:38 PM  

jtown: John Buck 41: Earguy: I like Maker's Mark and it makes me want to buy a few bottles of existing stock to last me a couple years.

'A few' bottles will last you a couple years? I'm thinking our definitions of 'a few' are radically different.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 278x400]


From the look on her face she has handled (and enjoyed) a big one before.
 
2013-02-10 05:52:14 PM  
Bourbon? Pappy Van Winkle.
 
2013-02-10 05:52:56 PM  
If I wasn't terrible at Photoshop, I'd photoshop Drew's face over the "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE" guy.
 
2013-02-10 05:53:55 PM  
This just in: Spouses of Maker's Mark executives will stop at gloved handjobs, spit.
 
2013-02-10 05:54:01 PM  
Not really a bourbon guy but always have a bottle of makers mark for sipping sometimes and for frinds....recently visited a friend and tried the evan williams reserve and blantons.  Liked em both a lot but the blantons was by far my favorite.
 
2013-02-10 05:54:46 PM  
Nanny sez, 86 proof is safer, for your own good, found to be preferred, and just the beginning.
 
2013-02-10 05:55:39 PM  
As a fan of (and at least weekly-consumer of) said bourbon, this is quite sad to me.  I wish they wouldn't do this...
That being said, I wonder if I'll be able to notice much of a difference, especially when making an old fashioned... I'll just use less simple syrup, perhaps?  Still, I hate the whole idea.  I'd rather they either figure out a way to increase production in other ways or increase the price.  I would be more okay from a philosophical standpoint with them increasing the price by 3% than watering it down by the same.
 
2013-02-10 05:57:09 PM  

KarmicDisaster: I been drinking Kessler's out of a big plastic bottle. I like it. Problem?


Kesslers for the WIN!

/Not good, not Bourbon, but it does the job.
 
2013-02-10 05:58:43 PM  

desertfool: KarmicDisaster: I been drinking Kessler's out of a big plastic bottle. I like it. Problem?

Kesslers for the WIN!

/Not good, not Bourbon, but it does the job.


Yep. "always smooth".
 
2013-02-10 05:59:01 PM  

jaylectricity: cmunic8r99: A 1.75 is $60 here in NC.

This is one of the problems I have with "capitalism". That Larceny bourbon I was talking about? Yeah, most places have it for about $24 a 750, but then one place is trying to sell it for $30. That same place is selling Beefeater Gin for $27 a 1.75L where everywhere else it's $29.


That's not capitalism; that's a product of government regulation. Enjoy.
 
2013-02-10 05:59:08 PM  

HotWingAgenda: Meh, I'll stick with Bulleit rye.


One of my favorites. Blanton's as well.

Maker's is whiskey newbs go to drink.

/ducks
 
2013-02-10 06:01:43 PM  

johnny_vegas: Not really a bourbon guy but always have a bottle of makers mark for sipping sometimes and for frinds....recently visited a friend and tried the evan williams reserve and blantons.  Liked em both a lot but the blantons was by far my favorite.


Blantons is my favorite as well.

I love you.
 
2013-02-10 06:03:01 PM  
Hmm, that just reminded me I have a 94 proof Jack Daniels.  Thanks!
 
2013-02-10 06:03:27 PM  

John Buck 41: jtown: John Buck 41: Earguy: I like Maker's Mark and it makes me want to buy a few bottles of existing stock to last me a couple years.

'A few' bottles will last you a couple years? I'm thinking our definitions of 'a few' are radically different.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 278x400]

From the look on her face she has handled (and enjoyed) a big one before.


You know what they say.  Once you go Melchizedek, you never go back.
 
2013-02-10 06:04:15 PM  
I've helped to bottle this stuff. Tasty
The apple pie moonshine is outstanding.
http://arkansaslightning.com/products/bourbon-whiskey/
 
2013-02-10 06:04:25 PM  

timujin: hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.

Tried Eagle Rare? I like Woodford, but prefer Eagle Rare.

/really prefer Elijah Craig 18, but they won't have any more of that for another year...


So. I happen to know where there is plenty of 18 years old Elijah Craig.
 
2013-02-10 06:05:06 PM  
Maker's Mark was my go-to drink for years, but no more. Just what were they thinking?
 
2013-02-10 06:05:46 PM  
I prefer Beam White label at 80 proof, Noah's Mill at 114, or Booker's at 124 (w/4 icecubes).  However I'm dubious of any spirit watered down to sell more of it.
 
2013-02-10 06:07:05 PM  
This is an-

skinink: NewportBarGuy: This is an outrage and I demand that we protest!

Well, the Fark server has been flaky today, so there's that.

/This is an outage and I demand we protest!

[img.fark.net image 640x480]


Damn it!
 
2013-02-10 06:07:06 PM  
My first thought, "THE FARK YOU PUT WATER IN MY BOURBON YOU COMMIE BASTARDS!"

As my rational side took over, you really have to wonder what kind of asshats they have in management. Can't supply enough for demand, raise the price. Watering down your product is probably a cost addition in some way, ~and~ damaging the reputation of your brand.
 
2013-02-10 06:08:04 PM  

MemphisSlacker: timujin: hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.

Tried Eagle Rare? I like Woodford, but prefer Eagle Rare.

/really prefer Elijah Craig 18, but they won't have any more of that for another year...

So. I happen to know where there is plenty of 18 years old Elijah Craig.


Please, do share.  And if it's somewhere in Memphis, that's cool, I'll have that shiat boxed up and shipped.
 
2013-02-10 06:10:56 PM  
In the days before the internet they probably could've done this quietly and most people wouldn't even know until they took they noticed the difference in proof on the label.

These days, though, it is just horrible marketing.  Even if it doesn't affect taste at all there's still the perception.  They should've just raised the price, IMO.
 
2013-02-10 06:11:07 PM  

italie: My first thought, "THE FARK YOU PUT WATER IN MY BOURBON YOU COMMIE BASTARDS!"

As my rational side took over, you really have to wonder what kind of asshats they have in management. Can't supply enough for demand, raise the price. Watering down your product is probably a cost addition in some way, ~and~ damaging the reputation of your brand.


That being said... all bourbon is watered down unless it's barrel proof and even then it might have a little.  Maker's is just watering theirs down a little more than before.
 
2013-02-10 06:11:35 PM  

itsfullofstars: Meh, I'll stick with Wild Turkey.  They put their money into the product, not marketing.

The crap that Makers Mark sends out to promote their products is worth about 10x as much as I've ever spent on their products.



Why don't you go back to drinking Jack Daniels, you farking Philistine.
 
2013-02-10 06:13:59 PM  

Shaggy_C: Reinforcing my decision to drink only single malts rather than American swill.


Scotch: For people who enjoy the taste of burnt peat-moss and ass.
 
2013-02-10 06:14:45 PM  
What ?
No love for the Big Bird ?

sipology.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-10 06:16:32 PM  

The One True TheDavid: Maker's Mark is for girls already. Reak men drink Old Grand-Dad 100 proof.


I drink Old Grand-Dad 100 and I reek. Thumbs up!
 
2013-02-10 06:17:07 PM  

jtown: I don't get it?  Isn't this a basic supply and demand scenario?  Demand increases, supply remains constant, so price increases.  Why is adulteration of the product preferable to raising the price?  Now they're going to have reduced demand because they're watering down the product to increase the supply.


X:  bottles not bought because booze watered
Y:  bottles not bought because they couldn't be supplied without watering

If X < Y, water
 
2013-02-10 06:17:43 PM  

give me doughnuts: Shaggy_C: Reinforcing my decision to drink only single malts rather than American swill.

Scotch: For people who enjoy the taste of burnt peat-moss and ass.


Ouch, that's harsh.

True, but harsh.

stoplikingthingsidontlike.jpg
 
2013-02-10 06:18:36 PM  

give me doughnuts: Shaggy_C: Reinforcing my decision to drink only single malts rather than American swill.

Scotch: For people who enjoy the taste of burnt peat-moss and ass.


Not all Scotch tastes like burnt peat moss.  Try some of the stuff from the south.
 
2013-02-10 06:18:38 PM  
Oh well. Guess I'll stick with my Bulleit and Buffalo Trace.
 
2013-02-10 06:20:10 PM  
There's a simple solution to the problem that MM is facing.  When you determine that you MUST water down your booze, you don't water it down with Water.  You water it down with other booze.
 
2013-02-10 06:23:37 PM  
Just raise the price and change the name to Maker's Markup.
 
2013-02-10 06:24:25 PM  

studebaker hoch: Raise the price, don't drop the quality.

45%.

Own it.


After seeing how many sales are lost due to watering, a higher-priced, limited Original edition of the full-strength stuff will be introduced.  The watered stuff will be watered more to make up for that.  Eventually, profit will be optimized.
 
2013-02-10 06:31:10 PM  
Marker's Mark in Australia cost a fortune as in $45 a bottle or more.  I much prefer Ardburg but it is $80 a bottle and also owed by Marker's.
 
2013-02-10 06:34:04 PM  
So they're sitting in a meeting with (probably) the following 3 options for solving the near term shortage while building capacity for the future:

1) Raise the price, sell fewer units per month but cultivate a high quality image.

2) Leave everything the same and occasionally run out of stock and cultivate an "amazingly popular" image.

3) Water down the booze and look like morons by claiming "no one will notice the difference" coupled with the "what's this internet thing?" look on their faces.


Yep - we're gonna go with 3!
 
2013-02-10 06:36:03 PM  
product_images_wc.s3.amazonaws.com
You're adding water to my bourbon?! I don't think so.
/cask strength if you please, I'll add it, thank you.
 
2013-02-10 06:36:40 PM  
I signed up to become a Maker's Mark Ambassador years ago and have always enjoyed receiving their annual Christmas present.  Sure they've skimped the last few years with wrapping paper and gift boxes but before that I got a MM signet complete with a block of red wax and a tray to make round ice cubes.  I also got to name a barrel of bourbon.  I feel bad because I never actually drink MM unless I'm at a shiatty bar and that's the only halfway decent bourbon they have.  They sent me the email detailing these changes last night and while I could care less I knew that they were stirring up a shiatstorm of biblical proportions.
 
2013-02-10 06:38:57 PM  
Last night I picked up a bottle of the beam devils cut (90 proof).  My normal swill is E-Dub black label.

Pretty much confirmed that theres no reason to buy any bourbon other than evan or early times, as I always mix with cola.

yeah, i know. cheap ass, unrefined... but i've had woodford, ive had makers, etc. i've tried to drink the stuff neat but it honestly is not an enjoyable experience for me.
 
2013-02-10 06:39:16 PM  

give me doughnuts: itsfullofstars: Meh, I'll stick with Wild Turkey.  They put their money into the product, not marketing.

The crap that Makers Mark sends out to promote their products is worth about 10x as much as I've ever spent on their products.


Why don't you go back to drinking Jack Daniels, you farking Philistine.


Jack Daniels tastes like parts cleaner.  Makers Mark parts cleaner stored in a oak barrel.
 
2013-02-10 06:40:17 PM  
Will the makers of Maker's Mark mark the day of making a markedly marring remake?
 
2013-02-10 06:40:24 PM  
Well I think they've solved their demand problem.
 
2013-02-10 06:42:00 PM  
Raise your price to capitalize on your popularity.

Watering down the product is weaksauce.
 
2013-02-10 06:43:55 PM  

HotWingAgenda: Meh, I'll stick with Bulleit rye.


Clearly a Farker excellent taste.

/The Jack Daniels Effect claims Maker's...
 
2013-02-10 06:50:42 PM  
It's all about the benjamins - NO not about customers, loyal or not.
 
2013-02-10 06:52:17 PM  
Did anyone else see the photo at the bottom of the page and get freaked out by the naked bottles?
 
2013-02-10 06:53:37 PM  
Part of the problem is predicting what demand will be in 6+ years.
Part of the problem is that MM is already substantially overpriced for what it is.
Part of the problem is that competition in that particular segment of the liquor industry (small batch bourbon) is incredibly stiff right now because it is very popular.
Part of the problem is that MM is run by a really nice guy with very little clue just how big the world is.

But the biggest part of the problem is that they are willing to change the product in order to save the bottom line over what is, by their own admission, a temporary issue.  What that tells people is that quality (which is essentially the customers' happiness) is not as important to them as having a bad year or two money-wise.  That is a huge problem, and if they go through with it they will lose lifelong customers to their respective competitors.  I know I won't be buying it if they do.  I'll probably go back to Bulleit.  I don't like Buffalo Trace.

If it were me, I would stop exporting outside the US immediately, keeping as much MM available for Americans as possible.  Beyond that I would just let the supply run out whenever it runs out.  How can selling out of your product hurt you as a business?  If your finances are based on your projections, and your projections are met, you won't be losing money.  And having an annual shortage of MM for a few months every year for the next 7 years (how long it will take for the increased output from the new facilities to be ready to sell) will not alienate people.  On the contrary, having annual shortages for that time will drive demand up even farther!

There is no mention of Makers 46 in this article, and I wonder where that factors in to all of this.
 
2013-02-10 06:59:52 PM  
images.marketplaceadvisor.channeladvisor.com

A most excellent rendition of old school low quality whiskey.  Perfect for getting shiatfaced and not much else.
 
2013-02-10 07:00:39 PM  
acorkabove.com

Bourbon and Scotch whisky or whiskey drinkers are arguing... Love Fark.
 
2013-02-10 07:01:31 PM  
I don't like whiskey in general, so this bothers me not, but I must add that I don't get the "Scotch" thing at ALL.  Ugh.  Bourbon or sour mashes are drinkable, but Scotch almost seems formulated to be nose-squinching awful stuff.
 
2013-02-10 07:03:26 PM  

fasteddie199: What ?
No love for the Big Bird ?

[sipology.files.wordpress.com image 195x300]


101 Rocks...Better then Makers.
 
2013-02-10 07:06:54 PM  
As a regular drinker of Jagermeister, I'm still thinkin' that 84 proof is still pretty durn high.

/mmmm.... Jager
 
2013-02-10 07:10:12 PM  
Makers Mark is bourbon?
 
2013-02-10 07:11:20 PM  

spaten: [acorkabove.com image 303x400]

Bourbon and Scotch whisky or whiskey drinkers are arguing... Love Fark.


images.quickblogcast.com
 
2013-02-10 07:13:15 PM  

cmunic8r99: jaylectricity: The owners of Maker's Mark, which is distilled Loretto, Kentucky, said they are unable to produce the bourbon fast enough.

Well if the store down the street would stop selling the 1.75 for $40 maybe they could slow down the sales a bit.

Ok, real talk, they stopped that sale, so I stopped buying it. I started buying Larceny bourbon for $44 for the 1.75.

But then again, I just bought a bottle of Baker's for $35. A 750, though.

A 1.75 is $60 here in NC.


42.95 here. For 750 ml. I can get whisky that isn't made from corn for that much.
 
2013-02-10 07:13:32 PM  

KarmicDisaster: I been drinking Kessler's out of a big plastic bottle. I like it. Problem?


Me too!
 
2013-02-10 07:17:36 PM  

John Buck 41: Earguy: I like Maker's Mark and it makes me want to buy a few bottles of existing stock to last me a couple years.

'A few' bottles will last you a couple years? I'm thinking our definitions of 'a few' are radically different.


I'm not a daily drinker, and I like to mix up my alcohol of choice.  Yeah, a single bottle of booze can last in my house 6-24 months.
 
2013-02-10 07:18:58 PM  
I got an email about this the other day and was rather disappointed.   I signed up to be a "Maker's Mark Ambassador" a decade ago or so (probably due to a Fark thread..) and it's been an awesome program.  I do nothing, and they send me cool gifts, and letters, etc. and my name is on a barrel of aging bourbon.
 
2013-02-10 07:21:23 PM  
Don't hold out on us - how does one sign up?

On a related note, has anyone tried the Makers 46? Saw it on the shelf the other day but didn't pull the trigger.
 
2013-02-10 07:21:29 PM  
Something something "this business will get out of hand" from Crimson Tide or some movie,jpg
 
2013-02-10 07:23:30 PM  

HotWingAgenda: Meh, I'll stick with Bulleit rye.


I like Bulleit better than Makers. I've also noted that shrinkage* seems to be higher with Bulleit than Makers.

*Booze that's accessible to other people, tends to slowly disappear.
 
2013-02-10 07:23:31 PM  

RatMotor: Don't hold out on us - how does one sign up?

On a related note, has anyone tried the Makers 46? Saw it on the shelf the other day but didn't pull the trigger.


Don't know what happened there, but I was trying to quote CruJones re the ambassador gig.
 
2013-02-10 07:26:07 PM  
no problem: i'll never buy another bottle. their dooshbag leader is choosing profit greed over level of quality. same reason i won't purchase BMW or Mercedes (except for specific older models in fine condition).

screw you greedy guy. screw you big time. may your customers abandon you in droves.
 
2013-02-10 07:28:28 PM  

studebaker hoch: Raise the price, don't drop the quality.

45%.

Own it.


This. Although I don't really drink anymore, so this won't affect me much anyway. *sigh*
 
2013-02-10 07:31:31 PM  

mugwump867: I signed up to become a Maker's Mark Ambassador years ago and have always enjoyed receiving their annual Christmas present.  Sure they've skimped the last few years with wrapping paper and gift boxes but before that I got a MM signet complete with a block of red wax and a tray to make round ice cubes.  I also got to name a barrel of bourbon.  I feel bad because I never actually drink MM unless I'm at a shiatty bar and that's the only halfway decent bourbon they have.  They sent me the email detailing these changes last night and while I could care less I knew that they were stirring up a shiatstorm of biblical proportions.


Ditto. Saw that email last night and was reminded that JD did the same thing a few years ago. Don't drink JD, rarely drink MM.
 
2013-02-10 07:31:35 PM  
Any suggestions on a good starter bourbon? Barely ever tried any, always done scotches & whiskies....

\other stuff too, but you get the picture
 
2013-02-10 07:33:22 PM  
Maybe the US really is becoming a failed state.

/A man used to take pride in calling himself 'merican.
//Again the terrorists have won.
 
2013-02-10 07:36:52 PM  

gibbon1: HotWingAgenda: Meh, I'll stick with Bulleit rye.

I like Bulleit better than Makers. I've also noted that shrinkage* seems to be higher with Bulleit than Makers.

*Booze that's accessible to other people, tends to slowly disappear.


Bulleit is pretty solid, but I definitely prefer Wild Turkey as a bourbon.

It's up to taste, Makers Mark has been going done in quality since the nineties. They have the Heineken status market at this point.
 
2013-02-10 07:37:58 PM  

phedex: Last night I picked up a bottle of the beam devils cut (90 proof).  My normal swill is E-Dub black label.

Pretty much confirmed that theres no reason to buy any bourbon other than evan or early times, as I always mix with cola.

yeah, i know. cheap ass, unrefined... but i've had woodford, ive had makers, etc. i've tried to drink the stuff neat but it honestly is not an enjoyable experience for me.


I like Woodford very much More so than MM even before this watering down news), but as an every night bourbonite, I can't afford it, so it's Evan Williams most of the time. What are some other good values in bourbon out there?

Btw, save your breath on slamming EW. I know it's not top of the line, but I'm okay with that.
 
2013-02-10 07:38:47 PM  
I say go ahead. Maker's Mark is the most over rated and over priced liquor made. Anyone who thinks it's good bourbon won't know the difference anyway.
If you want to know what a decent bourbon is supposed to taste like, try Knob Creek.
Or for an excellent whiskey at a fantastic price, drink Tullamore Dew from Ireland.
 
2013-02-10 07:40:31 PM  
My neighbor works for Jim Beam who owns Maker Mark.

Just when I was gonna ask if I can get any Justified swag since they started advertising on the show.
 
2013-02-10 07:42:42 PM  

Earguy: John Buck 41: Earguy: I like Maker's Mark and it makes me want to buy a few bottles of existing stock to last me a couple years.

'A few' bottles will last you a couple years? I'm thinking our definitions of 'a few' are radically different.

I'm not a daily drinker, and I like to mix up my alcohol of choice.  Yeah, a single bottle of booze can last in my house 6-24 months.


Ok, that explains it. I'm a daily and I pretty much stick with bourbon or beer (occasionally veering off the path to gin or vodka)
 
2013-02-10 07:45:08 PM  
I'd be rolling in my grave if I gave a sh*t.  But my whiskey was still better than
any store bought kind.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-10 07:50:20 PM  
www.bruichladdich.com
 
2013-02-10 07:53:04 PM  

FriarReb98: Any suggestions on a good starter bourbon? Barely ever tried any, always done scotches & whiskies....

\other stuff too, but you get the picture


Wild Turkey or Bulliet are pretty good bourbons, large batch. Makers Mark is fair. If you want to get into the more specialized stuff single barrel there are plenty of options...
 
2013-02-10 07:55:16 PM  

HotWingAgenda: Meh, I'll stick with Bulleit rye.


This. And Old Overholt when I'm on a budget.
 
2013-02-10 07:56:01 PM  

FriarReb98: Any suggestions on a good starter bourbon? Barely ever tried any, always done scotches & whiskies....

\other stuff too, but you get the picture


Not sure what your price point is, but if the point is to try something you'll likely enjoy, get the Eagle Rare 10
 
2013-02-10 08:02:46 PM  

FriarReb98: Any suggestions on a good starter bourbon? Barely ever tried any, always done scotches & whiskies....

\other stuff too, but you get the picture


Go to the liquor store and get some of the small bottles. Start with Wild Turkey 80 proof or Jim Beam. They are a traditional bourbon recipe I.E. 70% corn and then roughly equal amounts of rye and barley.

Then try a wheated recipe such as Wellers or Makers. These will be a little softer and sweeter as there is little or no rye in the recipe.

Then try woodford or old grand-dad or bulliet. These are high rye recipes that have a higher content of rye. These will be spicier and have a bit of a bite compared to the others.

See which style you prefer and take it from their. I would try them on ice, just swirl until some of the ice melts.
 
2013-02-10 08:04:02 PM  

SoxSweepAgain: Bourbon or sour mashes are drinkable,



Sour Mash is a process, not a type of whiskey. It's used in most, but not all, bourbon.
 
2013-02-10 08:09:04 PM  

FriarReb98: Any suggestions on a good starter bourbon? Barely ever tried any, always done scotches & whiskies....

\other stuff too, but you get the picture


The best one in the dirt cheap range is Evan Williams 1783. Cheap, and it's about a 10 year whiskey. I say about because it carries no age statement, and they probably toss in a 9 year every now and then, but it's older than their standard (about 6 yr) blend, and somehow costs about the same. Less awareness, and thus less demand, I think. Punches way above its weight in terms of value for the money.

Mid $20s price point, the Evan Williams Single Barrel Vintage, Buffalo Trace, or Eagle Rare.
 
2013-02-10 08:15:44 PM  

cptjeff: FriarReb98: Any suggestions on a good starter bourbon? Barely ever tried any, always done scotches & whiskies....

\other stuff too, but you get the picture

The best one in the dirt cheap range is Evan Williams 1783. Cheap, and it's about a 10 year whiskey. I say about because it carries no age statement, and they probably toss in a 9 year every now and then, but it's older than their standard (about 6 yr) blend, and somehow costs about the same. Less awareness, and thus less demand, I think. Punches way above its weight in terms of value for the money.

Mid $20s price point, the Evan Williams Single Barrel Vintage, Buffalo Trace, or Eagle Rare.


Agree on the EW. Ridiculously priced, in a good way.
 
2013-02-10 08:19:22 PM  

cptjeff: FriarReb98: Any suggestions on a good starter bourbon? Barely ever tried any, always done scotches & whiskies....

\other stuff too, but you get the picture

The best one in the dirt cheap range is Evan Williams 1783. Cheap, and it's about a 10 year whiskey. I say about because it carries no age statement, and they probably toss in a 9 year every now and then, but it's older than their standard (about 6 yr) blend, and somehow costs about the same. Less awareness, and thus less demand, I think. Punches way above its weight in terms of value for the money.

Mid $20s price point, the Evan Williams Single Barrel Vintage, Buffalo Trace, or Eagle Rare.


Shhh... We don't want the hipsters discovering EW. It could become the new PBR...
 
2013-02-10 08:22:51 PM  
As someone mentioned upthread, JD did the same thing.  Cut the proof from 90 to 86, then cut it again to 80 proof.  I wonder if this is where MM is headed.

I'm not a huge fan of Bulleit.  I used to get Bulleit and coke for $2.50 at a local bar and was surprised to learn it is so well regarded.  I think I tried it neat once and didn't care for it, but I may have been biased from getting the mixed drinks so cheap.

Anyway, I don't often drink bourbon and coke anymore; it's just too sweet.  Bourbon alone is pretty sweet and mixing it with coke is just too much for my taste.  I keep some Evan Williams 1783 on hand for the rare occasion when I do want a b&c.  Anymore, if I drink whiskey, it's likely going to be neat.  For that I prefer Wild Turkey 101 or Buffalo Trace, though there are several I like.  I think BT is excellent, but some of that may just be because it's so hard to get around here.

I agree with others have said, MM should just raise the price to slow demand to match the supply.  Watering it down may come back to bite 'em.
 
2013-02-10 08:29:18 PM  

CognaciousThunk: cptjeff:
Mid $20s price point, the Evan Williams Single Barrel Vintage, Buffalo Trace, or Eagle Rare.

Agree on the EW. Ridiculously priced, in a good way.


Thirded on Evan single. That was my first "serious" bourbon; quite underpriced for what you get. Just don't get the basic Evan Williams -- it's scary how un-palatable that stuff is (it's barely acceptable in a bourbon-and-cola, and that's about it. Straight? Shudder.).
 
2013-02-10 08:30:18 PM  

timujin: MemphisSlacker: timujin: hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.

Tried Eagle Rare? I like Woodford, but prefer Eagle Rare.

/really prefer Elijah Craig 18, but they won't have any more of that for another year...

So. I happen to know where there is plenty of 18 years old Elijah Craig.

Please, do share.  And if it's somewhere in Memphis, that's cool, I'll have that shiat boxed up and shipped.


It is. Not sure if the liquor stores here can ship. I'll run by tomorrow after class and check to see if they still have it.

I am buying two bottles this weekend when I get paid.
 
2013-02-10 08:35:58 PM  
I dunno about their supply problems, but this move will certainly solve the demand problem.

/switching to Bulliet, I guess...it's still 45%, and it's awesome.
 
2013-02-10 08:37:58 PM  

johnny_vegas: Not really a bourbon guy but always have a bottle of makers mark for sipping sometimes and for frinds....recently visited a friend and tried the evan williams reserve and blantons.  Liked em both a lot but the blantons was by far my favorite.


One of the (few?) perks of travelling to KY for work about 6 times a year is that I get to try new bourbons every trip/  Discovered Blanton's a couple of year back and still in my top 3 for sure.  Good stuff!
 
2013-02-10 08:39:21 PM  
Oh, and I'll just throw this out there.. has anyone tried Benchmark? Pretty good stuff for 20.00 per 750. Supposedly, it is 8 yr old Buffalo Trace, it does have the smoothness of BT but I think it is a different mashbill.
 
2013-02-10 08:40:26 PM  

RatMotor: RatMotor: Don't hold out on us - how does one sign up?

On a related note, has anyone tried the Makers 46? Saw it on the shelf the other day but didn't pull the trigger.

Don't know what happened there, but I was trying to quote CruJones re the ambassador gig.


Go to the website I guess?  I don't remember, this was back in the days before hot cocoa sampler boxes, and people furious over not getting their Guinness bar towels.  This was like the dark ages of Fark.   They even mailed business cards with your name saying your a Maker's Mark ambassador.  The best gift was swizzle sticks that look like melted wax, with their seal as the handle.  Then the bourbon balls ice cube tray.   You also get to go to some parties, and their horse race, Thoroughbreds and Redheads, The Maker's Mile. Or something like that.

http://www.barmixmaster.com/2011/12/makers-mark-ambassador-program.h tm l
 
2013-02-10 08:41:53 PM  

timujin: hubiestubert: timujin: hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.

Tried Eagle Rare? I like Woodford, but prefer Eagle Rare.

/really prefer Elijah Craig 18, but they won't have any more of that for another year...

Good bourbon is its own reward. There are fantastic small batch bourbons out there. Even Evan Williams does some great reserve small batches that are not just passable, but downright tasty. I can't say that I'm a huge fan of Scotch, but bourbon gives me warm fuzzies and even that sub-cockle region. I can't say a lot of Jack, even their small batch stuff, because their process gives the bourbon that distinctive, and to me, that vaguely petroleum aftertaste that I'm not much a fan of, but Woodford's standard fare is something that you can expect in most decent bars, and to deliver without fail. At home? I can afford to experiment and play around, and after my time in Colorado and the islands, I'm really having a great time with rums, but when I'm out and about, and want a decent bourbon, Woodford is widely available, and never fails.

Love me some rum.  I recently found out that in a lot of other places, rum is counted as a whiskey, at least when it comes to sales figures.

If you can find it in your neck of the woods, check out Kōloa spiced rum.  It's from Kuau'i and is quite tasty.  It's only been around for a few years, though, so it might not have made it there yet.

Ron Del Barrilito Three Star from Puerto Rico is another good one.


 But where can you find it in the states?
 
2013-02-10 08:57:20 PM  
Sorry, I just don't like Maker's Mark.  Plenty of great bourbons out there.  Some of my favorites:

Elijah Craig 18 year and 12 year
Knob Creek
Buffalo Trace
Bulleit (my everyday shelf bourbon)
 
2013-02-10 08:59:42 PM  

hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.


The president of our company is Kentucky born and bred and he also swears by Woodford Reserve. I am not such a connoisseur so I have a bottle of Buffalo Trace for cooking.

/not a bourbon drinker
//raise your prices, MM, don't dilute your brand
 
2013-02-10 09:00:13 PM  
Is pappy van winkle (any year) worth the hassle to find a bottle?

I dont drink bourbon very often but I do enjoy it and generally stick with Blantons or Basil Haydens. Ive never bothered to seek out PVW but i am curious...
 
2013-02-10 09:06:16 PM  

carmody: So it's 86 proof instead of 90? Still higher than most US-market booze, which averages 80 proof.


With some going down to 70 under pressure from the MADD nazis.
 
2013-02-10 09:08:44 PM  

Fecal Conservative: timujin: hubiestubert: timujin: hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.

Tried Eagle Rare? I like Woodford, but prefer Eagle Rare.

/really prefer Elijah Craig 18, but they won't have any more of that for another year...

Good bourbon is its own reward. There are fantastic small batch bourbons out there. Even Evan Williams does some great reserve small batches that are not just passable, but downright tasty. I can't say that I'm a huge fan of Scotch, but bourbon gives me warm fuzzies and even that sub-cockle region. I can't say a lot of Jack, even their small batch stuff, because their process gives the bourbon that distinctive, and to me, that vaguely petroleum aftertaste that I'm not much a fan of, but Woodford's standard fare is something that you can expect in most decent bars, and to deliver without fail. At home? I can afford to experiment and play around, and after my time in Colorado and the islands, I'm really having a great time with rums, but when I'm out and about, and want a decent bourbon, Woodford is widely available, and never fails.

Love me some rum. I recently found out that in a lot of other places, rum is counted as a whiskey, at least when it comes to sales figures.

If you can find it in your neck of the woods, check out Kōloa spiced rum. It's from Kuau'i and is quite tasty. It's only been around for a few years, though, so it might not have made it there yet.

Ron Del Barrilito Three Star from Puerto Rico is another good one.

But where can you find it in the states?


Ron Del Barrilito is fairly easy to find.  I've found Kōloa at a couple of stores here in Los Angeles, but not many.  I think you can check on their site to see if anyone nearby sells it.
 
2013-02-10 09:09:36 PM  

jtown: I don't get it?  Isn't this a basic supply and demand scenario?  Demand increases, supply remains constant, so price increases.  Why is adulteration of the product preferable to raising the price?  Now they're going to have reduced demand because they're watering down the product to increase the supply.


That's what I was thinking. The only logic would be if they screwed up and signed a long term fixed price contract like CocaCola did early on.

I've always been surprised products that take years to mature aren't sold via a Dutch Auction.
 
2013-02-10 09:10:44 PM  

MemphisSlacker: timujin: MemphisSlacker: timujin: hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.

Tried Eagle Rare? I like Woodford, but prefer Eagle Rare.

/really prefer Elijah Craig 18, but they won't have any more of that for another year...

So. I happen to know where there is plenty of 18 years old Elijah Craig.

Please, do share. And if it's somewhere in Memphis, that's cool, I'll have that shiat boxed up and shipped.

It is. Not sure if the liquor stores here can ship. I'll run by tomorrow after class and check to see if they still have it.

I am buying two bottles this weekend when I get paid.


Which store? Busters? I'll just send a friend over to pick some up and send it my way.
 
2013-02-10 09:11:05 PM  

LandOfChocolate: Is pappy van winkle (any year) worth the hassle to find a bottle?

I dont drink bourbon very often but I do enjoy it and generally stick with Blantons or Basil Haydens. Ive never bothered to seek out PVW but i am curious...



It's worth it.
 
2013-02-10 09:22:05 PM  

give me doughnuts: LandOfChocolate: Is pappy van winkle (any year) worth the hassle to find a bottle?

I dont drink bourbon very often but I do enjoy it and generally stick with Blantons or Basil Haydens. Ive never bothered to seek out PVW but i am curious...


It's worth it.


Go on.  Why?
 
2013-02-10 09:23:55 PM  
I love a good scotch.

Tried some Laphroig and thought it was the nastiest drink I'd ever had.
 
2013-02-10 09:26:10 PM  

itsfullofstars: Meh, I'll stick with Wild Turkey.  They put their money into the product, not marketing.

The crap that Makers Mark sends out to promote their products is worth about 10x as much as I've ever spent on their products.


Not sure if serious...fine if you are (about the WT, the marketing part probably is true) ... I think I first had Jim Beam (don't judge, I inherited the bottle), then Wild Turkey, and then Maker's Mark. MM seemed a lot smoother and more drinkable straight than WT. I tried Woodford Reserve and hated it, but I'll admit it was from a 50ml bottle on a Delta flight. Tried Knob Creek somewhere once and still liked MM the most.
 
2013-02-10 09:28:58 PM  

spaten: Shhh... We don't want the hipsters discovering EW. It could become the new PBR...


Red Shirt Blues: FriarReb98: Any suggestions on a good starter bourbon? Barely ever tried any, always done scotches & whiskies....

\other stuff too, but you get the picture

Go to the liquor store and get some of the small bottles. Start with Wild Turkey 80 proof or Jim Beam. They are a traditional bourbon recipe I.E. 70% corn and then roughly equal amounts of rye and barley.

Then try a wheated recipe such as Wellers or Makers. These will be a little softer and sweeter as there is little or no rye in the recipe.

Then try woodford or old grand-dad or bulliet. These are high rye recipes that have a higher content of rye. These will be spicier and have a bit of a bite compared to the others.

See which style you prefer and take it from their. I would try them on ice, just swirl until some of the ice melts.


This is what I'm looking for.  Will have to make a shopping trip tomorrow, thanks!
 
2013-02-10 09:39:01 PM  

timujin: MemphisSlacker: timujin: MemphisSlacker: timujin: hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.

Tried Eagle Rare? I like Woodford, but prefer Eagle Rare.

/really prefer Elijah Craig 18, but they won't have any more of that for another year...

So. I happen to know where there is plenty of 18 years old Elijah Craig.

Please, do share. And if it's somewhere in Memphis, that's cool, I'll have that shiat boxed up and shipped.

It is. Not sure if the liquor stores here can ship. I'll run by tomorrow after class and check to see if they still have it.

I am buying two bottles this weekend when I get paid.

Which store? Busters? I'll just send a friend over to pick some up and send it my way.


Wine market near Target at Colonial has it. I could not remember which store had it, had to ask the SO where it was.
 
2013-02-10 09:42:07 PM  

italie: My first thought, "THE FARK YOU PUT WATER IN MY BOURBON YOU COMMIE BASTARDS!"

As my rational side took over, you really have to wonder what kind of asshats they have in management. Can't supply enough for demand, raise the price. Watering down your product is probably a cost addition in some way, ~and~ damaging the reputation of your brand.


This is exactly what I thought to - what a great marketing coup this would be - "Sorry everyone, our product is so popular that for the first time ever we are running out of it!" - watch the remaining bottles fly off the shelves and increase the wholesale cost to compensate.

This approach is just a way for them to keep selling at the same cost (they won't be lowering the wholesale cost because they have adulterated the alcohol content of the product) and ship more unit volumes than they had in stock. It's pretty much the definition of a cash grab, and it's dilluting (pun intended) their brand. which I am certain is far more of a value loss than the units they won't be able to ship this year.

Stupid all around if you ask me.
 
2013-02-10 09:44:39 PM  
Fark the Daily Mail.  Every whisky (whiskey, whatever) producer "waters down" their product - it's called proofing.  The Daily Fail can't even get their editing correct. FTFA:
"the bourbon will drop its alcohol by there percent."
Makers Mark has good quality control, and their (not there) bourbon will continue to be one of the best-produced on the market.
 
2013-02-10 09:48:27 PM  

spaten: cptjeff: FriarReb98: Any suggestions on a good starter bourbon? Barely ever tried any, always done scotches & whiskies....

\other stuff too, but you get the picture

The best one in the dirt cheap range is Evan Williams 1783. Cheap, and it's about a 10 year whiskey. I say about because it carries no age statement, and they probably toss in a 9 year every now and then, but it's older than their standard (about 6 yr) blend, and somehow costs about the same. Less awareness, and thus less demand, I think. Punches way above its weight in terms of value for the money.

Mid $20s price point, the Evan Williams Single Barrel Vintage, Buffalo Trace, or Eagle Rare.

Shhh... We don't want the hipsters discovering EW. It could become the new PBR...


Eagle Rare is about 300 times better than Evan Williams.
 
2013-02-10 09:50:47 PM  
Makers Mark is a decent cheap single barrel. So is Larceny. I think I prefer Larceny to be honest. I adore Woodford for a daily drinker. But for great bourbon, I am torn currently between the 18 year Jefferson's and Pappy.

But then again, I have been enjoying my bottles of Templeton Rye and Whistlepig recently over my bourbons.
 
2013-02-10 09:51:54 PM  
And yes, I know you're talking about the single barrel.

I almost bought some one night, but the liquor store owner brought me over to the tasting area and gave me a couple shots of some different bourbons. EW single barrel was one of them. Four Roses Small Batch being another.

Just a little too harsh for my liking.

/liquor store in Burlington MA, just south of I-9 on the Middlesex Turnpike
//yes...he served me shots of bourbon to help me decide which one I wanted to buy
 
2013-02-10 09:52:41 PM  
F*CK...I-95, not I-9.
 
2013-02-10 09:59:45 PM  

jaylectricity: spaten: cptjeff: FriarReb98: Any suggestions on a good starter bourbon? Barely ever tried any, always done scotches & whiskies....

\other stuff too, but you get the picture

The best one in the dirt cheap range is Evan Williams 1783. Cheap, and it's about a 10 year whiskey. I say about because it carries no age statement, and they probably toss in a 9 year every now and then, but it's older than their standard (about 6 yr) blend, and somehow costs about the same. Less awareness, and thus less demand, I think. Punches way above its weight in terms of value for the money.

Mid $20s price point, the Evan Williams Single Barrel Vintage, Buffalo Trace, or Eagle Rare.

Shhh... We don't want the hipsters discovering EW. It could become the new PBR...

Eagle Rare is about 300 times better than Evan Williams.


I'm still partial to Wild Turkey as a large operation. But I'll have to try Eagle Rare, if I can find it.

Not talking small batch runs. Then we can get into the discussion of single malt, single barrel, pot still, and even homemade. Scotch, Bourbon, Irish...The small batch in most cases is superior...
 
2013-02-10 10:06:58 PM  

I Am The Bishop Of East Anglia: hubiestubert: I'm not a big fan of Maker's Mark, so this pretty much seals the deal for me and a continuing relationship with Woodford Reserve. What distillers I don't I don't buy from do is pretty much no damn business of mine, save that it only reinforces that I won't be buying from them.

The president of our company is Kentucky born and bred and he also swears by Woodford Reserve. I am not such a connoisseur so I have a bottle of Buffalo Trace for cooking.

/not a bourbon drinker
//raise your prices, MM, don't dilute your brand


For the price, it is really nice, and the small batch is phenomenal. Evan Williams does some fun stuff, for the price point as well. Evan Williams does some great small batch stuff too. Bourbon is warm, it's rich, it has mouth feel, it has notes and depth that I appreciate a great deal more than Scotch. I won't turn down Scotch, because Grandma taught me that a drink offered is a moment to share, and even if handed a Bud Light, you drink the thing, because it's the gesture you appreciate. Heck, a decent rye is fine too, but bourbon is my preferred drink, even beyond gin and rum--and I WILL drink the f*ck out of some Boodles or Plymouth, and fine rum is a gift as well.
 
2013-02-10 10:07:06 PM  
As someone who married a girl who grew up across from the Woodford distillery, I'm getting a kick out if this thread. Even funnier, I almost bought a home owned by one of the Samuels from Maker's Mark many years ago.
 
2013-02-10 10:10:09 PM  

studebaker hoch: I love a good scotch.

Tried some Laphroig and thought it was the nastiest drink I'd ever had.


whiskeygoldmine.com
 
2013-02-10 10:21:17 PM  
I don't know squat about whiskey or whatever kind of booze Maker's Mark is, but I hear everybody rave about it. Why would they change a formula that works? That's as stupid as Coca Cola changing theirs to "New Coke".
 
Oak
2013-02-10 10:26:10 PM  
This is why I switched from Jack Daniel's to Maker's Mark in the first place.  I won't hesitate to switch again.
 
2013-02-10 10:28:25 PM  

spaten: I'm still partial to Wild Turkey as a large operation. But I'll have to try Eagle Rare, if I can find it.

Not talking small batch runs. Then we can get into the discussion of single malt, single barrel, pot still, and even homemade. Scotch, Bourbon, Irish...The small batch in most cases is superior...


Wild Turkey 101 is my favorite all-around. When you consider the flavor, strength and price, it's hard to beat the Turkey.

I think Wild Turkey is definitely better than Evan Williams highest quality.

Elijah Craig is pretty good. Especially for the price, around here.
 
2013-02-10 10:28:33 PM  

bmihura: I don't know squat about whiskey or whatever kind of booze Maker's Mark is, but I hear everybody rave about it. Why would they change a formula that works? That's as stupid as Coca Cola changing theirs to "New Coke".


Coca Cola changed it's recipe much earlier:

cocaine.org

I may consider buying a coca-cola with the right 'temperance' drug in it. Prior to 1914.
 
2013-02-10 10:29:13 PM  
There's something about limiting a bourbon to 80 proof that  kills my buzz.
 
2013-02-10 10:30:28 PM  

jaylectricity: There's something about limiting a bourbon to 80 proof that  kills my buzz.


Agreed.
 
2013-02-10 10:33:51 PM  

studebaker hoch: I love a good scotch.

Tried some Laphroig and thought it was the nastiest drink I'd ever had.


Then you don't like great scotch.


Another Government Employee: carmody: So it's 86 proof instead of 90? Still higher than most US-market booze, which averages 80 proof.

With some going down to 70 under pressure from the MADD nazis.


Yeah, that's not MADD, that's companies with giant marketing budgets pumping out watered down swill and knowing that stupid people will buy it. Case in point: Captain Morgan.
 
2013-02-10 10:36:12 PM  

studebaker hoch: Tried some Laphroig and thought it was the nastiest drink I'd ever had.


You and me both. I bought a 750 of 10-year, got a third of the way through it, and traded it to one of my employees that would appreciate it for a six-pack of a local micro. I thought it was a good swap.

Blargh. I think "Laphroaig" is Scotch for "The Frog," and that's a pretty accurate description of the taste, IMO. I read a review of it in Whisky magazine that described it as tasting like "seaweed, smoke, and tarred rope." I wasn't sure if that was a warning or a recommendation. Could've gone either way.
 
2013-02-10 10:41:47 PM  

itsfullofstars: Meh, I'll stick with Wild Turkey.  They put their money into the product, not marketing.

The crap that Makers Mark sends out to promote their products is worth about 10x as much as I've ever spent on their products.


Yea...cause toxic rat gut takes a lot of investment to produce.

Dear f-ing God...
 
2013-02-10 10:45:34 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: studebaker hoch: Tried some Laphroig and thought it was the nastiest drink I'd ever had.

You and me both. I bought a 750 of 10-year, got a third of the way through it, and traded it to one of my employees that would appreciate it for a six-pack of a local micro. I thought it was a good swap.

Blargh. I think "Laphroaig" is Scotch for "The Frog," and that's a pretty accurate description of the taste, IMO. I read a review of it in Whisky magazine that described it as tasting like "seaweed, smoke, and tarred rope." I wasn't sure if that was a warning or a recommendation. Could've gone either way.


It's up to one's personal preference. I prefer Oban over Laphroaig in the peatier scotches... I depends on what one wants Speyside, Highland....
 
2013-02-10 10:54:00 PM  
From the creator of Woodfords:

1.bp.blogspot.com

Good stuff too.
 
2013-02-10 10:59:59 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: I read a review of it in Whisky magazine that described it as tasting like "seaweed, smoke, and tarred rope." I wasn't sure if that was a warning or a recommendation. Could've gone either way.


Instead, you're drinking bland Glenwhatevers, right?

Give me Laphroiag any day. It's what God drinks.
 
2013-02-10 11:05:06 PM  
When the most rational discussion I've seen on the announcement all day is on Fark, I begin to wonder if I'm not going to be sourcing ice from the devil next.

Couple points:

Rob Samuels took over distillery operations within the last year or two. Maker's is aged at least five summers, meaning this problem existed long before his tenure. He may have inherited this, but he didn't cause it.

@MikeSass - It hurts because failure to supply demand in certain retailers and states results in a complete de-listing from the entire chain (or state). It doesn't just get "harder to find" - it vanishes entirely from a complete state and then you have to petition to be re-listed on their listing schedule - which could be only once or twice per year.

Generally speaking production increases today will only help supply at least five years from now. WIth any aged spirit, the bottlings you have coming out of the warehouse are fixed. It's a choice between inventing time-travel or a crystal ball. Every distillery around the world faces this same issue. If you lay down more than demand, you tie up money on your balance sheet that you can't invest elsewhere in the business, and then if demand doesn't meet your over-projections - you wind up with potentially unsellable product since it continues to change taste as it ages.

Price increases work to a point to slow down demand, but liquor is a fairly inelastic market. Jacking the price up high enough to actually meaningfully blunt demand would result in just as much out-rage at the 'greedy corporate overlords'. People would just say that there was no supply issue, and demand the exactly same boycott over the price increase.
 
2013-02-10 11:08:31 PM  

spaten: studebaker hoch: I love a good scotch.

Tried some Laphroig and thought it was the nastiest drink I'd ever had.


Oban is pretty good, and the distillery tour is great. I do prefer the 16 year double matured over the original, though.
 
2013-02-10 11:09:26 PM  

WhiskeyChick: When the most rational discussion I've seen on the announcement all day is on Fark, I begin to wonder if I'm not going to be sourcing ice from the devil next.

Couple points:

Rob Samuels took over distillery operations within the last year or two. Maker's is aged at least five summers, meaning this problem existed long before his tenure. He may have inherited this, but he didn't cause it.

@MikeSass - It hurts because failure to supply demand in certain retailers and states results in a complete de-listing from the entire chain (or state). It doesn't just get "harder to find" - it vanishes entirely from a complete state and then you have to petition to be re-listed on their listing schedule - which could be only once or twice per year.

Generally speaking production increases today will only help supply at least five years from now. WIth any aged spirit, the bottlings you have coming out of the warehouse are fixed. It's a choice between inventing time-travel or a crystal ball. Every distillery around the world faces this same issue. If you lay down more than demand, you tie up money on your balance sheet that you can't invest elsewhere in the business, and then if demand doesn't meet your over-projections - you wind up with potentially unsellable product since it continues to change taste as it ages.

Price increases work to a point to slow down demand, but liquor is a fairly inelastic market. Jacking the price up high enough to actually meaningfully blunt demand would result in just as much out-rage at the 'greedy corporate overlords'. People would just say that there was no supply issue, and demand the exactly same boycott over the price increase.


Adam Smith. Much respect.
 
2013-02-11 12:13:32 AM  
I bet, if they did a blind taste test between the old and new, none of you morons would be able to tell the difference.
 
2013-02-11 12:17:59 AM  

MikeSass: Part of the problem is predicting what demand will be in 6+ years.
Part of the problem is that MM is already substantially overpriced for what it is.
Part of the problem is that competition in that particular segment of the liquor industry (small batch bourbon) is incredibly stiff right now because it is very popular.
Part of the problem is that MM is run by a really nice guy with very little clue just how big the world is.

But the biggest part of the problem is that they are willing to change the product in order to save the bottom line over what is, by their own admission, a temporary issue.  What that tells people is that quality (which is essentially the customers' happiness) is not as important to them as having a bad year or two money-wise.  That is a huge problem, and if they go through with it they will lose lifelong customers to their respective competitors.  I know I won't be buying it if they do.  I'll probably go back to Bulleit.  I don't like Buffalo Trace.

If it were me, I would stop exporting outside the US immediately, keeping as much MM available for Americans as possible.  Beyond that I would just let the supply run out whenever it runs out.  How can selling out of your product hurt you as a business?  If your finances are based on your projections, and your projections are met, you won't be losing money.  And having an annual shortage of MM for a few months every year for the next 7 years (how long it will take for the increased output from the new facilities to be ready to sell) will not alienate people.  On the contrary, having annual shortages for that time will drive demand up even farther!

There is no mention of Makers 46 in this article, and I wonder where that factors in to all of this.


Makers 46 is just normal MM that they remove from the barrel, add toasted french oak staves and recooper the barrel and then age for another 3-6 months (probably depending on the time of year, 3 for summer 6 for winter)
 
2013-02-11 12:31:39 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-02-11 12:33:13 AM  

CuttySupreme: I bet, if they did a blind taste test between the old and new, none of you morons would be able to tell the difference.


I'll take the bet. Not a big Makers Mark fan.
 
2013-02-11 12:55:15 AM  
I made this for a PS contest a while back. seems appropriate, now:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-11 03:18:31 AM  
Personally I think you guys upset over this are tripping.  While I too would prefer they didn't do it, I don't think 3 percent of the alcohol is going to make much difference.

Like someone said before, it's still over 80 proof, so how is it going to taste watery?
 
2013-02-11 03:31:31 AM  
Because it's more profitable in the short term to cut the product than to spend profit on equipment to inctease capacity, that's why.
 
2013-02-11 03:40:24 AM  
Hillbilly and redneck problems
 
2013-02-11 05:29:38 AM  
Makers mark is only 40%abv/80 proof in Australia anyway, even though they bottle it in the same place, so I doubt this will affect it here... unless they drop it to 37% like most other bourbon in this country.
 
2013-02-11 07:26:09 AM  
Oh, American whiskey.  How quaint.
 
2013-02-11 08:43:35 AM  

John Buck 41: phedex: Last night I picked up a bottle of the beam devils cut (90 proof).  My normal swill is E-Dub black label.

Pretty much confirmed that theres no reason to buy any bourbon other than evan or early times, as I always mix with cola.

yeah, i know. cheap ass, unrefined... but i've had woodford, ive had makers, etc. i've tried to drink the stuff neat but it honestly is not an enjoyable experience for me.

I like Woodford very much More so than MM even before this watering down news), but as an every night bourbonite, I can't afford it, so it's Evan Williams most of the time. What are some other good values in bourbon out there?

Btw, save your breath on slamming EW. I know it's not top of the line, but I'm okay with that.


Give George Dickel White Label a try. I like it a lot and it doesn't cockpunch your wallet. It's about $22 for a 750ml.
 
2013-02-11 09:00:57 AM  
Jim Beam white label for everyday.  Basil Hayden's for special occasions.  A friend gave me a bottle of the Beam black label for my B-day recently and It is damn fine.

/Jack Daniels tastes like Kingsford lighter fluid smells.  Nasty.
 
2013-02-11 09:21:58 AM  

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Because it's more profitable in the short term to cut the product than to spend profit on equipment to inctease capacity, that's why.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/21/k y-distilleries-rapidly-expand-am id-bourbon-boom/

Most of the major distilleries are expanding. But distillation expansion today only helps increase bottling capacity AFTER the spirit has aged. Until the new-make spirit is done, the aged spirit pool is fixed.
 
2013-02-11 10:37:12 AM  

WhiskeyChick: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Because it's more profitable in the short term to cut the product than to spend profit on equipment to inctease capacity, that's why.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/21/k y-distilleries-rapidly-expand-am id-bourbon-boom/

Most of the major distilleries are expanding. But distillation expansion today only helps increase bottling capacity AFTER the spirit has aged. Until the new-make spirit is done, the aged spirit pool is fixed.


So they'er only cutting their product as a short term solution to meet demand until their amount of spirit being aged catches up?
 
2013-02-11 02:20:42 PM  

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: WhiskeyChick: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Because it's more profitable in the short term to cut the product than to spend profit on equipment to inctease capacity, that's why.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/21/k y-distilleries-rapidly-expand-am id-bourbon-boom/

Most of the major distilleries are expanding. But distillation expansion today only helps increase bottling capacity AFTER the spirit has aged. Until the new-make spirit is done, the aged spirit pool is fixed.

So they'er only cutting their product as a short term solution to meet demand until their amount of spirit being aged catches up?


No easy answer to that one - they've all had to make different calls throughout the past few years. JD (as a few people noted above) de-proofed twice in the past decade or so and remained at that proof. I can only assume after the initial outcry that most consumers came to accept the product at the lower proof.

In the mid-90s there was a major bourbon brand that came up so short on supply that they stopped being a bourbon entirely and made it a blended whiskey instead. Presumably, that brand had significantly less consumer loyality and investment behind it.

Knob Creek in '09 chose to let the liquid go out of stock patchily across the world because the next available pool of fully-matured spirit only need another 6 months before it would be ready.  The amount of work needed to get label approval, change the proofing and resupply the entire elongated liquor industry supply chain wouldn't have been worth the effort for a 6-month issue (and that's even before the consumer outcry.)

In 2008, Maker's had a shortage nationwide, but chose not to change anything because the new-make spirit from the 2002 expansion that doubled their production capacity was almost ready to bottle.

That article was written June of 2011, so at BEST the new-make spirit from the additional capacity couldn't be available to bottle until 2016-2017. Getting label approval from the gov't to change the proof took at least six months, so they've been dealing with this quietly for at least a year before making a decision to announce. If the new capacity doesn't come available to bottle for at least another three to four full years - no amount of price increase would have made a meaningful dent in demand.

As to whether they'll change it back, who knows? Making any sort of change to a spirit (proof, formula, bottle type etc) in the US is a time-consuming, expensive process just to get it past the TTB, to say nothing of selling it into the distributor/retailer chain and then convincing consumers of what you're doing and why.
 
2013-02-11 04:06:44 PM  

Githerax: Oh, American whiskey.  How quaint.



Somebody had to finally perfect it. The Scots were still obsessing over their sea-weed hooch, the Irish were drinking anything they could get their hands on, and the only thing the French can do with grain is make bread.
 
2013-02-11 07:51:12 PM  
Oh hell no! Just charge more you assholes! Don't fark with my makers mark!
 
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