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(NPR)   Fifty years later, does Betty Friedan's "Feminine Mystique" still resonate, or has it become too broad?   (npr.org) divider line 158
    More: Followup, Betty Friedan, Gail Collins, Hanna Rosin, discrimination in the workplace, manifestos, World War II America  
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4616 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Feb 2013 at 1:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-10 01:51:23 PM  
CSB:
I dated an amazingly beautiful girl who had read her and wanted to be submissive to me because she idolized the late 40's housewife.  Full of crazy and honest about it with no regrets.  I tried to act the role of dominating alpha male, it wasn't me.  Treated every day like it was the last day I was ever going to have sex.  Now all I want is crazy.

Mom is a European style feminist.  I swear it turned me liberal and I can't see any truth in conservatism, so dating that aforementioned girl was also a rebellion against .. something.
Anyway the girl cheated on me with some useless musician guy, "never saw that coming", so hell If I know which way is up with women.
 
2013-02-10 01:51:33 PM  

WhippingBoy: How about any PhD level professor of "Gender Studies" working at a major university?


Why did you put Gender Studies in quote marks. Are you quoting someone?
 
2013-02-10 01:53:05 PM  

DamnYankees: WhippingBoy: How about any PhD level professor of "Gender Studies" working at a major university?

Why did you put Gender Studies in quote marks. Are you quoting someone?


No, I'm an illiterate idiot with a tenuous grasp of the English language.
 
2013-02-10 01:56:39 PM  

DS1970: Generation_D: First wave feminism.

Wrecking relationships since 1963.

Feminism not only diminishes women's choices but denigrates the very gender it is supposed to protect.

The roll of "full-time mom" is both a "career choice" that is more unavailable to women and is a career-choice that is denigrated by the "feminist" movement. Note also that by denigrating the idea of a "full-time dad" or "house-dad", feminism is also saying that a homemaker role is one to be looked down upon.


... said the Straw Feminist. We don't know her, she's from Canada. But she totally exists, we'll just have to trust you.
 
2013-02-10 01:57:46 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: If you ladies would like to be treated as equals, you must be willing to give up the privileged status you enjoy in so many aspects of life.


Good for you, keeping women in their place.
 
2013-02-10 01:59:47 PM  
 
2013-02-10 02:02:22 PM  

WhippingBoy: dersk: WhippingBoy: dersk: WhippingBoy: douchebag/hater: The Betty Friedan who came from a well-off family and went to private schools all her life then married 'wealthy' and had maids cleaning her houses and basically had the world by the tail then wrote a book biatching how tough it is to be a woman?That Betty Friedan?

Bullshiat is bullshiat especially from a hypocrite.

Actually, I've found this to be true about a number of self-described "feminists": upper-middle class background, highly educated, high-five or six figure income, life of privilege... yet somehow, they're "oppressed" because one guy in a bar once called them "fat".

Name one.

One has posted in this thread.

And that would be...?

I'd rather not get banned.


Translation: "Uh, crap. I got called on it, and I can't actually name anyone who has posted in the thread who meets that condition. I better give a weak excuse, and then name some vague strawman that no one can directly quote to show me wrong."

How about any PhD level professor of "Gender Studies" working at a major university?
 
2013-02-10 02:03:47 PM  
TFA has extensive quotes from Jessica Valenti, the good looking "modern feminist" who attended a luncheon with Bill Clinton and stood in front of him in a pose to accentuate her breasts. Maybe she was just trying to entrap him

www.nospeedbumps.com
 
2013-02-10 02:05:02 PM  

Theaetetus: WhippingBoy: dersk: WhippingBoy: dersk: WhippingBoy: douchebag/hater: The Betty Friedan who came from a well-off family and went to private schools all her life then married 'wealthy' and had maids cleaning her houses and basically had the world by the tail then wrote a book biatching how tough it is to be a woman?That Betty Friedan?

Bullshiat is bullshiat especially from a hypocrite.

Actually, I've found this to be true about a number of self-described "feminists": upper-middle class background, highly educated, high-five or six figure income, life of privilege... yet somehow, they're "oppressed" because one guy in a bar once called them "fat".

Name one.

One has posted in this thread.

And that would be...?

I'd rather not get banned.

Translation: "Uh, crap. I got called on it, and I can't actually name anyone who has posted in the thread who meets that condition. I better give a weak excuse, and then name some vague strawman that no one can directly quote to show me wrong."

How about any PhD level professor of "Gender Studies" working at a major university?


To be honest, I was hoping he'd say it was me.
 
2013-02-10 02:06:39 PM  

HairBolus: TFA has extensive quotes from Jessica Valenti, the good looking "modern feminist" who attended a luncheon with Bill Clinton and stood in front of him in a pose to accentuate her breasts. Maybe she was just trying to entrap him

[www.nospeedbumps.com image 450x320]


Christ, you're dumb.

Longer version: she's turned to the side, her shoulders aren't really pitched far back, her back isn't particularly arched. She's only accentuating her breasts in the sense that she has breasts.
 
2013-02-10 02:07:14 PM  

Theaetetus: WhippingBoy: dersk: WhippingBoy: dersk: WhippingBoy: douchebag/hater: The Betty Friedan who came from a well-off family and went to private schools all her life then married 'wealthy' and had maids cleaning her houses and basically had the world by the tail then wrote a book biatching how tough it is to be a woman?That Betty Friedan?

Bullshiat is bullshiat especially from a hypocrite.

Actually, I've found this to be true about a number of self-described "feminists": upper-middle class background, highly educated, high-five or six figure income, life of privilege... yet somehow, they're "oppressed" because one guy in a bar once called them "fat".

Name one.

One has posted in this thread.

And that would be...?

I'd rather not get banned.

Translation: "Uh, crap. I got called on it, and I can't actually name anyone who has posted in the thread who meets that condition. I better give a weak excuse, and then name some vague strawman that no one can directly quote to show me wrong."

How about any PhD level professor of "Gender Studies" working at a major university?


Fair enough.

Here's one:  http://www.feministe.us/blog/about-this-website/about-jill/
 
2013-02-10 02:10:42 PM  
And there we have it. All the usual little white knights have shown up. I believe we can call this a wrap fellas. Might as well shut the door now before they start screaming in their manliest soprano voice about how you shouldn't "insert whatever random feminist shiat they've chosen to whine about today."

Yesterday it was 50 year old statues, I wonder what they shoved up their ass today to get them going...
 
2013-02-10 02:11:08 PM  
i guess i don't understand the outright hatred i've seen from some people in this thread over feminism.
 
2013-02-10 02:12:38 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: And there we have it. All the usual little white knights have shown up. I believe we can call this a wrap fellas. Might as well shut the door now before they start screaming in their manliest soprano voice about how you shouldn't "insert whatever random feminist shiat they've chosen to whine about today."

Yesterday it was 50 year old statues, I wonder what they shoved up their ass today to get them going...


You seem awfully anally fixated for an alpha male.
 
2013-02-10 02:13:29 PM  

cookiefleck: i guess i don't understand the outright hatred i've seen from some people in this thread over feminism.


"hatred" = someone who has a different opinion than me
 
2013-02-10 02:13:57 PM  

coco ebert: Yes, because Fark is the place I come to to discuss the relevance of earlier waves of feminism.


yet, we keep reading these threads.
 
2013-02-10 02:16:48 PM  

cookiefleck: i guess i don't understand the outright hatred i've seen from some people in this thread over feminism.


Not familiar with Erin Pizzey, I guess.
 
2013-02-10 02:19:27 PM  

dersk: HairBolus: TFA has extensive quotes from Jessica Valenti, the good looking "modern feminist" who attended a luncheon with Bill Clinton and stood in front of him in a pose to accentuate her breasts. Maybe she was just trying to entrap him

[www.nospeedbumps.com image 450x320]

Christ, you're dumb.

Longer version: she's turned to the side, her shoulders aren't really pitched far back, her back isn't particularly arched. She's only accentuating her breasts in the sense that she has breasts.


That WHORE!!1!
 
2013-02-10 02:21:00 PM  
   Ms.Friedan and an entourage of approximately ten people came into a piano bar I was working one night..circa 1975.   Within 15 minutes,she came to me and produced a dollar...Putting it in my jar,she said;..."Could you take a break please..the people with me wanna hear what I have to say.."
  I dont know if this story is so much about Betty or my piano playing...But that's what happened..
  Thank you..tip your waitress and drive safely.
 
2013-02-10 02:21:28 PM  
i1172.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-10 02:22:33 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Hack Patooey: toddalmighty: Broads don't like being called tomatoes.

Yea, chicks hate that

Gashes don't like to be called chicks.


How do Sheilas feel? Any input from bints on this?
 
2013-02-10 02:25:45 PM  
What's Corporate America paying for a Women's Studies graduate these days?
 
2013-02-10 02:26:17 PM  

bighairyguy: What's Corporate America paying for a Women's Studies graduate these days?


What they're worth, I suspect.
 
2013-02-10 02:30:24 PM  
To teach my students about argument, I use this: Women should or should not be required to register for selective service. Once I explain what it is, most of my female students argue yes, they should, and my male students argue no, they should not. I have been using this example for 10 years, and the answers almost always mirror this. I have yet to understand.

I read the book. It was awful.

There is a big difference between feminist and feminazi.

I do admit, I like having doors opened for me, help on with my coat, and chairs pulled out. There is something about that old fashioned behavior that makes me willing to put out. The entire time my fiance and I have been together I have not opened my own door, put on my coat without help, pulled out my own chair, or had to lift anything heavy. However, I do pay for dates. I have no problem with that at all. I joke with him that I paid, so he has to put out. He smiles and agrees.
 
2013-02-10 02:32:23 PM  

WhippingBoy: bighairyguy: What's Corporate America paying for a Women's Studies graduate these days?

What they're worth, I suspect.


It's really bizarre how concerned you are with what somebody somewhere chooses to study.
 
2013-02-10 02:33:44 PM  

Shakespeare's Sister: To teach my students about argument, I use this: Women should or should not be required to register for selective service. Once I explain what it is, most of my female students argue yes, they should, and my male students argue no, they should not. I have been using this example for 10 years, and the answers almost always mirror this. I have yet to understand.

I read the book. It was awful.

There is a big difference between feminist and feminazi.

I do admit, I like having doors opened for me, help on with my coat, and chairs pulled out. There is something about that old fashioned behavior that makes me willing to put out. The entire time my fiance and I have been together I have not opened my own door, put on my coat without help, pulled out my own chair, or had to lift anything heavy. However, I do pay for dates. I have no problem with that at all. I joke with him that I paid, so he has to put out. He smiles and agrees.


Oh, apparently YOU'RE the one who's bitter because someone called you fat in a bar once. I can just sense the rage seeping between the lines of your post.
 
2013-02-10 02:35:21 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: WhippingBoy: bighairyguy: What's Corporate America paying for a Women's Studies graduate these days?

What they're worth, I suspect.

It's really bizarre how concerned you are with what somebody somewhere chooses to study.


he's been mad since yesterday's statue thread....
 
2013-02-10 02:39:02 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: WhippingBoy: bighairyguy: What's Corporate America paying for a Women's Studies graduate these days?

What they're worth, I suspect.

It's really bizarre how concerned you are with what somebody somewhere chooses to study.


Brain damage (no joke). I tend to obsess over trivial things to the point of absurdity.
If it's any consolation, this obsessive behaviour is significantly impacting my quality of life.
 
2013-02-10 02:43:32 PM  

WhippingBoy: Lionel Mandrake: WhippingBoy: bighairyguy: What's Corporate America paying for a Women's Studies graduate these days?

What they're worth, I suspect.

It's really bizarre how concerned you are with what somebody somewhere chooses to study.

Brain damage (no joke). I tend to obsess over trivial things to the point of absurdity.
If it's any consolation, this obsessive behaviour is significantly impacting my quality of life.


I guess it also accounts for misidentifying a blogger with a JD as a PhD in women's studies.
 
2013-02-10 02:44:12 PM  
I don't know what a "Feminine Mystique" is, but considering she died in 2006, I'd say its resonating days are over. And by looking at the photos of her, I'm not sure I would have want to see it resonate back then, either. I'll let you know more once Urban Dictionary gets a definition up.
 
2013-02-10 02:44:43 PM  

WhippingBoy: Lionel Mandrake: WhippingBoy: bighairyguy: What's Corporate America paying for a Women's Studies graduate these days?

What they're worth, I suspect.

It's really bizarre how concerned you are with what somebody somewhere chooses to study.

Brain damage (no joke). I tend to obsess over trivial things to the point of absurdity.
If it's any consolation, this obsessive behaviour is significantly impacting my quality of life.


Well the first step is admitting you have a problem.  Good luck with that.
 
2013-02-10 02:47:38 PM  

dersk: WhippingBoy: Lionel Mandrake: WhippingBoy: bighairyguy: What's Corporate America paying for a Women's Studies graduate these days?

What they're worth, I suspect.

It's really bizarre how concerned you are with what somebody somewhere chooses to study.

Brain damage (no joke). I tend to obsess over trivial things to the point of absurdity.
If it's any consolation, this obsessive behaviour is significantly impacting my quality of life.

I guess it also accounts for misidentifying a blogger with a JD as a PhD in women's studies.


I didn't misidentify her; those were meant to be two separate examples (one general and one specific) of privileged individuals who claim that they're oppressed.
 
2013-02-10 02:51:49 PM  

dersk: Shakespeare's Sister: To teach my students about argument, I use this: Women should or should not be required to register for selective service. Once I explain what it is, most of my female students argue yes, they should, and my male students argue no, they should not. I have been using this example for 10 years, and the answers almost always mirror this. I have yet to understand.

I read the book. It was awful.

There is a big difference between feminist and feminazi.

I do admit, I like having doors opened for me, help on with my coat, and chairs pulled out. There is something about that old fashioned behavior that makes me willing to put out. The entire time my fiance and I have been together I have not opened my own door, put on my coat without help, pulled out my own chair, or had to lift anything heavy. However, I do pay for dates. I have no problem with that at all. I joke with him that I paid, so he has to put out. He smiles and agrees.

Oh, apparently YOU'RE the one who's bitter because someone called you fat in a bar once. I can just sense the rage seeping between the lines of your post.


I am not bitter, and there was no rage in the post. I do not know where you got either of those ideas from. Wow. Just wow. Did we skip our meds this morning?
 
2013-02-10 02:54:04 PM  

HairBolus: TFA has extensive quotes from Jessica Valenti, the good looking "modern feminist" who attended a luncheon with Bill Clinton and stood in front of him in a pose to accentuate her breasts. Maybe she was just trying to entrap him

[www.nospeedbumps.com image 450x320]


Her shoulders are forward. She's actually trying to de-accentuate her breasts.

Wanna try again?
 
2013-02-10 02:54:29 PM  

Generation_D: First wave feminism.

Wrecking relationships since 1963.


Yes, because God forbid women should stand up for themselves and demand equality.

I knew before I click this thread would be full of hostile, defensive men, but I've still gotta hand it to you for your alacrity.  Right off the bat.

I will say, so that this post does more than just point out what a defensive idiot Generation D is (and really, you don't need me to tell you that), that it's very interesting to read The Feminine Mystique now, 50 years later.  It's encouraging to see how far we've come, and enlightening to see how far we still have to go.
 
2013-02-10 02:55:09 PM  
Careful, Subby...

images.sodahead.com
 
2013-02-10 02:56:22 PM  

DamnYankees: Feminism is one of those things which was so successful in completely transforming the way society views itself and its goal was so broadly achieved and became so 'normal' (mostly), that the idea of having a movement for it become a weird thing and therefore garnered a lot of hate.


women working is more the result of industrialization than the feminist movement. Industrialization and the rise of the tertiary sector made it possible for women to work were it was previously physically impossible. i am curious to find out what is going to happen to women in the next 50 years because just like primary and secondary jobs were reduced by industrialization, teriary jobs are being replaced by computerization (think how many people work in retail shops and how those are being replaced by online shops).
 
2013-02-10 02:58:11 PM  

Shakespeare's Sister: dersk: Shakespeare's Sister: To teach my students about argument, I use this: Women should or should not be required to register for selective service. Once I explain what it is, most of my female students argue yes, they should, and my male students argue no, they should not. I have been using this example for 10 years, and the answers almost always mirror this. I have yet to understand.

I read the book. It was awful.

There is a big difference between feminist and feminazi.

I do admit, I like having doors opened for me, help on with my coat, and chairs pulled out. There is something about that old fashioned behavior that makes me willing to put out. The entire time my fiance and I have been together I have not opened my own door, put on my coat without help, pulled out my own chair, or had to lift anything heavy. However, I do pay for dates. I have no problem with that at all. I joke with him that I paid, so he has to put out. He smiles and agrees.

Oh, apparently YOU'RE the one who's bitter because someone called you fat in a bar once. I can just sense the rage seeping between the lines of your post.

I am not bitter, and there was no rage in the post. I do not know where you got either of those ideas from. Wow. Just wow. Did we skip our meds this morning?


No, no, no - someone posted about how all the feminists, including someone in the thread, only care about equal rights and stuff like that because they were once insulted. When I challenged the poster to say who he was talking about, he detumesced.
 
2013-02-10 02:58:41 PM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: [i1172.photobucket.com image 724x390]


"The only job for men is sludge digger; women smile constantly while doing housework."
 
2013-02-10 03:00:50 PM  

WhippingBoy: I didn't misidentify her; those were meant to be two separate examples (one general and one specific) of privileged individuals who claim that they're oppressed.


It is quite possible to be privileged in some aspects and oppressed in others.
 
2013-02-10 03:01:41 PM  

Gunny Walker: I don't know what a "Feminine Mystique" is, but considering she died in 2006, I'd say its resonating days are over. And by looking at the photos of her, I'm not sure I would have want to see it resonate back then, either. I'll let you know more once Urban Dictionary gets a definition up.


And you still don't get it. Bless your heart.
 
2013-02-10 03:04:11 PM  
Take a letter, secretary
blogs.amctv.com
 
2013-02-10 03:04:45 PM  

austerity101: WhippingBoy: I didn't misidentify her; those were meant to be two separate examples (one general and one specific) of privileged individuals who claim that they're oppressed.

It is quite possible to be privileged in some aspects and oppressed in others.


Of course it is. But it's as applicable to men as it is to women.
 
2013-02-10 03:06:01 PM  

dersk: No, no, no - someone posted about how all the feminists, including someone in the thread, only care about equal rights and stuff like that because they were once insulted. When I challenged the poster to say who he was talking about, he detumesced.


He's talking about me.

Here is what I said:

Actually, I've found this to be true about a number of self-described "feminists": upper-middle class background, highly educated, high-five or six figure income, life of privilege... yet somehow, they're "oppressed" because one guy in a bar once called them "fat".

I most certainly did not claim "all" feminists.
 
2013-02-10 03:07:41 PM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: DamnYankees: Feminism is one of those things which was so successful in completely transforming the way society views itself and its goal was so broadly achieved and became so 'normal' (mostly), that the idea of having a movement for it become a weird thing and therefore garnered a lot of hate.

women working is more the result of industrialization than the feminist movement. Industrialization and the rise of the tertiary sector made it possible for women to work were it was previously physically impossible. i am curious to find out what is going to happen to women in the next 50 years because just like primary and secondary jobs were reduced by industrialization, teriary jobs are being replaced by computerization (think how many people work in retail shops and how those are being replaced by online shops).


Primary and secondary jobs? I've never heard that distinction, but I assume you're talking about manufacturing, distribution and retailing?

Given that most of the open jobs in US manufacturing are for more high-tech manufacturing where you need to control the computer, not the drill press, I doubt it'll be an issue. And I'm not sure what planet you've been living on - women have been working since civilization pretty much started. Hell, brewing and baking were women's work, and it's hard enough that they're called brasseries in French (because it takes so much arm strength).
 
2013-02-10 03:08:49 PM  

WhippingBoy: dersk: No, no, no - someone posted about how all the feminists, including someone in the thread, only care about equal rights and stuff like that because they were once insulted. When I challenged the poster to say who he was talking about, he detumesced.

He's talking about me.

Here is what I said:

Actually, I've found this to be true about a number of self-described "feminists": upper-middle class background, highly educated, high-five or six figure income, life of privilege... yet somehow, they're "oppressed" because one guy in a bar once called them "fat".

I most certainly did not claim "all" feminists.


But you did call out someone in the thread and then detumesce when I challenged you.
 
2013-02-10 03:09:44 PM  

MadAzza: GF named my left testicle thundercles: [i1172.photobucket.com image 724x390]

"The only job for men is sludge digger; women smile constantly while doing housework."


one of the largest problems with feminism in general is the fact that they always look at the top of society, find that there are mostly men there, and then declare that society is set up to benefit men. The problem is that feminists will look up and see CEOs, presidents, nobles, generals, and whatever but they do not also look down at the bottom of society. if you do look down, you will find mostly men there too. about 80% of the homeless are men, almost all of combat deaths are men, almost all of uncomfortable and dangerous jobs are done by men, etc. feminists talk about the glass ceiling but they never ever talk about the glass floor. Its a major criticism because there are way more homeless people and prisoners and men in the army than there are CEOs and presidents. the entire idea that society benefits men came from looking at maybe the top 10% of society, and that is not a representative sample.

anyway here is a link to some really good ideas about that. http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm
 
2013-02-10 03:11:01 PM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: DamnYankees: Feminism is one of those things which was so successful in completely transforming the way society views itself and its goal was so broadly achieved and became so 'normal' (mostly), that the idea of having a movement for it become a weird thing and therefore garnered a lot of hate.

women working is more the result of industrialization than the feminist movement. Industrialization and the rise of the tertiary sector made it possible for women to work were it was previously physically impossible. i am curious to find out what is going to happen to women in the next 50 years because just like primary and secondary jobs were reduced by industrialization, teriary jobs are being replaced by computerization (think how many people work in retail shops and how those are being replaced by online shops).


As an on-duty career firefighter who happens to be a female, I can take a quick break from my job to say that,I, rest assured, will never be completely replaced by computerization .And I can also feel confident knowing my brothers on the job will come up with new "woman jokes" that I can laugh off every shift.
 
2013-02-10 03:11:52 PM  

Shakespeare's Sister: dersk: 
Oh, apparently YOU'RE the one who's bitter because someone called you fat in a bar once. I can just sense the rage seeping between the lines of your post.

I am not bitter, and there was no rage in the post. I do not know where you got either of those ideas from. Wow. Just wow. Did we skip our meds this morning?


dersk was playing off of something another poster said, not attacking you.
 
2013-02-10 03:13:06 PM  

dersk: WhippingBoy: dersk: No, no, no - someone posted about how all the feminists, including someone in the thread, only care about equal rights and stuff like that because they were once insulted. When I challenged the poster to say who he was talking about, he detumesced.

He's talking about me.

Here is what I said:

Actually, I've found this to be true about a number of self-described "feminists": upper-middle class background, highly educated, high-five or six figure income, life of privilege... yet somehow, they're "oppressed" because one guy in a bar once called them "fat".

I most certainly did not claim "all" feminists.

But you did call out someone in the thread and then detumesce when I challenged you.


By the way, using the phrase 'a number of' or 'some say' or other words like that is really weak beer. Perhaps you were intending to troll, but I usually read that as 'Here's what I think, and I have no evidence or specific examples, but...'...
 
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