KrispyKritter: round up your panhandlers and take them to farms to pick fruits & vegetables so they can earn money to feed & clothe themselves. people need chores done, houses painted, garages cleaned. let panhandlers have the chance to do for themselves and have some pride. the ones that just want to be panhandler bums who refuse to work but are not mentally ill? slit their throats and leave a sign on the bodies for others to learn by./ teach a man to pron and he'll masturbate for a lifetime
TuteTibiImperes: Greylight: TuteTibiImperes: Greylight:Eliminating poverty through punishment does't work. It does reinforce some people's perceptions that the poor and mentally ill who live on the street are just lazy though.Don't waste our government resources to reduce guilt. An infintesibly small number of people choose to live on the street or in poverty because they are lazy and the very few who do are quickly self motivated. People don't choose that lifestyle, it is thrust upon them by circumstance including mental health.You may wish to believe otherwise to support some bigoted guilt, that is your demon, not mine. Stop wasting government resources to feel better about yourself. No one should be living in poverty in North America. Where did you get that from anything I said? I'm all for having a safety net, job training, substance abuse rehabilitation facilities, and (though I didn't mention it) increased mental health support and care.I'm a believer that everyone should be given a chance, in fact many, many chances, to get their life on track and become a productive member of society. However, at a certain point, if someone does not take advantage of any of the programs available to help them break their addictions, get medicated, learn some job skills, and actually become self sufficient, there needs to be a solution for what to do with them. Just leaving them out on the streets to harass others for money, commit crimes, and generally a nuisance isn't a solution.It would be great if we could catch everyone before they reach that point and end the problem of homelessness and vagrancy, but there will be some, and it will likely be a very small number of people, who will simply not help themselves. If those people want to move out into the wilderness and do their own thing, great. But if they want to interact with society without contributing, and thereby cause everyone else problems, punishment is the only remaining option.
TuteTibiImperes: Greylight: Just to add some more food for thought. The most expensive solution is jail. The second most expensive solution is homeless shelters and food banks. The third is state welfare.It's not about saving money, it's about not having to see the results of policies.Which is why the solutions should be tried in order from least to most expensive.Welfare programs need to exist in order to help those who are down on their luck, or who are victims of unexpected circumstances, to allow them to stay afloat until they can get another job and get fully back on their feet. Such programs should come with ironclad time limits with lifetime maximum payouts as well as requirements that those receiving the money must provide proof of an active job search. I'd be fine with publicly funded employment assistance services here too - anything from resume help to free training for positions that are needed in the community to temporary government jobs so that at least some return in labor can be made on the money spent on the programs.For those who exhaust their welfare allowance without finding employment, or who refuse to either attempt to get or hold down a job, there should be shelters, food banks, and rehab centers so that no one is left sleeping on the streets at night or left facing the prospect of having to rob someone to stave off starving to death. The focus should be to try to return as many of the people in these programs as possible back into mainstream society with counseling, treatment to break addictions, and again job training as needed.Finally, for those that refuse to help themselves through any of the other programs available, there needs to be a stick to counter the carrot. Perhaps the first time someone is arrested for vagrancy they can be taken to a shelter instead of jail with an official warning, the second time made to spend the night in lockup, but after that there should be real prison time involved - force them to work in chain gangs during the day, hard physical labor, so that people will realize that their options are to either help themselves and work towards a job they want and freedom, or by continuing to refuse to participate in society be forced to do whatever job the state assigns without any freedom.
Greylight: Just to add some more food for thought. The most expensive solution is jail. The second most expensive solution is homeless shelters and food banks. The third is state welfare.It's not about saving money, it's about not having to see the results of policies.
Giltric: If a city cuts police funding and the result is more crime, would that mean that cutting the defense budget on the federal level would lead to more wars and terrorism?
Lost Thought 00: Pan handlers drive away visitors, which in turn drives away money
sprd: Another Liberal paradise collapsing.
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