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(Sun Sentinel)   Florida's Python Challenge is nearly over and already some people are calling bullshiat. "I don't feel the epidemic is as bad as they're saying"   (sun-sentinel.com) divider line 50
    More: Florida, Python Challenge, Everglades National Park, Palm Beach County News, Southeast Asian, epidemics  
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5108 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Feb 2013 at 8:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-10 01:59:11 AM
Now we can move on to the real threat to native species, feral cats.

When I adopted my dog, the only reason the shelter didn't make a house visit to make sure my yard was escape proof was because I had a friend at the shelter to vouch for me.

We should mandate that cats cannot get out without being on leash. It is best for the cat and environment. If you can stop a person from building a house because of some rare spider, we must demand leash laws for the furry menace!
 
2013-02-10 08:27:49 AM
Fifty snakes killed? As with layers, let's call that a good start.
 
2013-02-10 08:29:59 AM
I always thought those movies were over-rated too.

British humor.....
 
2013-02-10 08:34:54 AM
Wow, who could have predicted ambush hunters would be difficult to find in a swamp?
 
2013-02-10 08:35:19 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Fifty snakes killed? As with layers, let's call that a good start.


Exactly. They can try it again next year and triple that number. They'll have a group of people returning from this year who will have a better idea of what to expect. If they keep it up, ten years from now we might see a real difference.
 
2013-02-10 08:36:54 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-10 08:41:05 AM
Oh whacking day
Oh whacking day
Our sacred snake skull cracking day
 
2013-02-10 08:42:34 AM
Whack ye the serpents that crawleth upon their bellies, and thy town shall be a beacon unto others.
 
2013-02-10 08:42:47 AM
#!/usr/bin/env python

print "Hello, world"


Too tough?
 
2013-02-10 08:43:09 AM
Should I whack slow? Or fast?
 
2013-02-10 08:44:11 AM
Nothin sexier than the slither of a lady snake. Oh, yeaaaah.
 
2013-02-10 08:47:28 AM
Don't mess with the snakes. Leave the snakes alone.
 
2013-02-10 08:48:26 AM
Whacking Day was started as an excuse to beat up the Irish!
 
2013-02-10 08:52:06 AM
TFA states that because it's warm the pythons don't need to be out in the open. Wait, what?

1)  Why would these critters be hiding? It's not like they have predators to fear.  A hawk isn't going to swoop down on a 10-foot python and carry it off.

2) I'm no biologist, but wouldn't a cold-blooded animal want to be out and looking for prey when it's warm?

Article also states that the hunters in question have no idea how to hunt for pythons.  I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop -- well, Mr. SmartyPants, just how does one hunt for pythons? Baiting a clearing with corn and a salt lick? A turkey caller made with slate and a turtle shell?

If you have 1,500 guys with guns walking 2 to 20 miles a day, and each hunter devotes an average of 3 days to the hunt before giving up,  and each hunter can see about 150 feet to the left right and forward,
then pure out-of-the-ass numbers gives me about 2,700 square miles of ground covered during the challenge.

The Everglades are about 4,300 square miles. If the hunt covered over half the ground of the Everglades and resulted in 50 dead snakes, then yeah, bullshiat. There aren't 150,000.

And if you have an apex predator that's 20 feet long, how in the flying fark would you have 150,000 of them in a 4,300 square mile area? A mountain lion or a bear needs thousands of acres -- at least a few square miles -- of territory to feed itself. That's .0287 square miles per python.  There shouldn't be anything bigger than a cricket left in the Everglades.
 
2013-02-10 09:04:43 AM
I spoke with some locals in the glades. Some think the python hunt is a scam. I saw hundreds of gators and everything else down there but no snakes.
 
2013-02-10 09:05:04 AM

DanInKansas: TFA states that because it's warm the pythons don't need to be out in the open. Wait, what?

1)  Why would these critters be hiding? It's not like they have predators to fear.  A hawk isn't going to swoop down on a 10-foot python and carry it off.

2) I'm no biologist, but wouldn't a cold-blooded animal want to be out and looking for prey when it's warm?

Article also states that the hunters in question have no idea how to hunt for pythons.  I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop -- well, Mr. SmartyPants, just how does one hunt for pythons? Baiting a clearing with corn and a salt lick? A turkey caller made with slate and a turtle shell?

If you have 1,500 guys with guns walking 2 to 20 miles a day, and each hunter devotes an average of 3 days to the hunt before giving up,  and each hunter can see about 150 feet to the left right and forward,
then pure out-of-the-ass numbers gives me about 2,700 square miles of ground covered during the challenge.

The Everglades are about 4,300 square miles. If the hunt covered over half the ground of the Everglades and resulted in 50 dead snakes, then yeah, bullshiat. There aren't 150,000.

And if you have an apex predator that's 20 feet long, how in the flying fark would you have 150,000 of them in a 4,300 square mile area? A mountain lion or a bear needs thousands of acres -- at least a few square miles -- of territory to feed itself. That's .0287 square miles per python.  There shouldn't be anything bigger than a cricket left in the Everglades.


I can't tell if you are being serious or not, so I'm going to assume that you have no clue what you are talking about.

I hunt a lot and the one thing that amuses/scares me the most is all the yahoos out there with their shiny AR-15 "hunting" rifles stomping through the woods laughing and stomping all the way, chasing off the game they claim to be looking for.  It doesn't matter how much ground you cover, if you don't know what you are doing you aren't going to find anything.
 
2013-02-10 09:17:19 AM

DanInKansas: I'm no biologist, but wouldn't a cold-blooded animal want to be out and looking for prey when it's warm?


Pythons don't need to eat every day. A big meal can be enough for weeks.
 
2013-02-10 09:18:25 AM
Okay then, show me where I'm wrong.  I don't have thick skin, I'm just trying to make sense of the numbers.

150,000 snakes in 4,300 square miles still equals .0287 square miles per python.  I don't see how you have enough calories for even a cold-blooded animal with that kind of density.

Also, let's assume you're right and that at least half of these 1,500 hunters are at least your hypothetical Cletus/JimBob with AR-15s, and not outdoorsmen with an idea of what they're doing.

If there are 150,000 of these guys being scared off their perches by the stamping of feet through the brush, shouldn't you have at least some pythons being scared directly into the path of another Cletus/JimBob?

50 kills in one month just doesn't seem to add up to me. Here in Kansas we have 50,000 deer taken in a 12-day firearms season.  The goal of the Department is to cull about 10% of the herd in any given year.
 
2013-02-10 09:19:31 AM
What about the iguanas? Last time i was down in Florida the dang varmints where everywhere!
Are they just not as damaging to the environment or something?
 
2013-02-10 09:25:52 AM
They don't exactly stand around looking stupidly at you like deer. I'm not sure why people think this is going to be so easy. Or perhaps it is just overblown hoopla, like catching welfare recipients who use drugs.


DanInKansas: It's not like they have predators to fear.


media.treehugger.com
 
2013-02-10 09:28:22 AM

edmo: They don't exactly stand around looking stupidly at you like deer. I'm not sure why people think this is going to be so easy. Or perhaps it is just overblown hoopla, like catching welfare recipients who use drugs.


DanInKansas: It's not like they have predators to fear.

[media.treehugger.com image 492x336]


Oh shiate.  That would have been farking epic to see.  Please tell me there's video of that somewhere.
 
2013-02-10 09:30:58 AM

edmo: They don't exactly stand around looking stupidly at you like deer. I'm not sure why people think this is going to be so easy. Or perhaps it is just overblown hoopla, like catching welfare recipients who use drugs.


I have to argue with that characterization though.  I have seen deer hear one tiny twig crack and disappear with a subtle shift to the side.  They are really good at hiding.  They are also really really good at running.  I watched one sprinting over a field and clear a 6 foot fence without even hesitating in his stride.
 
2013-02-10 09:35:19 AM
Python Challenge?
www.brightandassociates.com.au
 
2013-02-10 09:42:11 AM
13 foot python bursts after attempting to swallow six foot gator in Everglades...
 
2013-02-10 09:43:05 AM
www.smh.com.au
 
2013-02-10 09:43:28 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-10 09:44:17 AM
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-10 09:45:31 AM

rummonkey: I hunt a lot and the one thing that amuses/scares me the most is all the yahoos out there with their shiny AR-15 "hunting" rifles stomping through the woods laughing and stomping all the way, chasing off the game they claim to be looking for.  It doesn't matter how much ground you cover, if you don't know what you are doing you aren't going to find anything.


So much of this. Show up with one of those ridiculous guns and you automatically have a much higher bar to clear to prove to me you know anything about hunting(or firearms in general). Step 1: STOP TALKING ABOUT IT TO ME.
 
2013-02-10 09:47:45 AM
Interior Crocodile Alligator ?

(I Drive a Chevrolet Movie Theater)
 
2013-02-10 10:05:07 AM
Having heard a fair few stories about escaped pet pythons being spotted once in apartment blocks, never to be found again (to the residents' dismay), I have no doubt that pythons are good at hiding. Remember that zoo snake that went on the lam and had its own twitter account? One damned snake IN A ZOO and pros couldn't find it. I think eventually they found it in the drain of its enclosure, or that might have been another missing zoo snake.

Also, it's my understanding that they eat one big meal and then hole up for days before they'll move again, and even then, they ambush, so for them, "hunting" is lying around very still and waiting. There might be a lot of snakes but only a few of them are on the move at any given time.
 
2013-02-10 10:15:40 AM
As I mention in the thread about a month ago and was told "let the rangers take care of them", most of the snakes are in the national park and that is off limits.
 
2013-02-10 10:16:47 AM
I have a niece who had a python pet in the mid 90s.
19 feet long.
She fed him a large rabbit once every 3 months.
She lived in a 14 x 85 mobile home at the time.
He went missing one time during the winter.
I helped her boyfriend search the place and we did not find him.
3 days later she was awakened by a lot of noise.
He was on top of the kitchen cabinets knocking off her antique tin can collection in the middle of the night.

So I'm not suprised at all at the low number of found snakes during the hunt.
 
2013-02-10 10:36:43 AM
shiat, Cleetus, you mean we gotto git outside to shoot one of them things?

Screw dat... Throw me an udder can o' beer.
 
2013-02-10 10:57:47 AM

AmbassadorBooze: Now we can move on to the real threat to native species, feral cats.

When I adopted my dog, the only reason the shelter didn't make a house visit to make sure my yard was escape proof was because I had a friend at the shelter to vouch for me.

We should mandate that cats cannot get out without being on leash. It is best for the cat and environment. If you can stop a person from building a house because of some rare spider, we must demand leash laws for the furry menace!



Feral cats are just doing their job keeping lackadaisical species from getting completely complacent. Clearly it's feral dogs that are the problem. They're not keeping the feral cats' fuzzy little butts in line.

If you want to get rid of the cats the solution is simple. Start a campaign to shoot dogs with darts full of rabies and loose rabies infected mice into the cats' territories.

It's a lot easier than either rounding the feral creatures up and gassing them or capturing them all and sending them to finishing school.

You know what? You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by cats with teeth. Who's gonna do it? You? You, thurstonxhowell? Cats have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for quail and you curse the pussy. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what cats know: that a spider's death, while tragic, probably saves lives. And their existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want cats on that wall. You need cats on that wall.
Cats use words like m'roww, purrr, hissssssss... Cats use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. Felis catus has neither the time nor the inclination to explain itself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very pest-free environment they provide, then questions the manner in which they provide it! They'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, they suggest you pick up a fork and eat a rat. Either way, they don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
 
2013-02-10 10:57:57 AM
Including this one: "There may be as many as 150,000 of these snakes just in the Everglades Park," U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson said last month at Big Cypress National Preserve.
This kind of talk
benefits politicians and grant-funded researchers who stand to gain from a perception of rampant Southeast Asian snakes devouring furry native critters, some say.


Sounds like many state's wildlife agencies (and lobbying groups who run them).  Welcome to the business, and accompanying politics, that is Wildlife Mgmt.
 
2013-02-10 11:33:25 AM

DanInKansas: TFA states that because it's warm the pythons don't need to be out in the open. Wait, what?

1)  Why would these critters be hiding? It's not like they have predators to fear.  A hawk isn't going to swoop down on a 10-foot python and carry it off.

2) I'm no biologist, but wouldn't a cold-blooded animal want to be out and looking for prey when it's warm?

Article also states that the hunters in question have no idea how to hunt for pythons.  I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop -- well, Mr. SmartyPants, just how does one hunt for pythons? Baiting a clearing with corn and a salt lick? A turkey caller made with slate and a turtle shell?

If you have 1,500 guys with guns walking 2 to 20 miles a day, and each hunter devotes an average of 3 days to the hunt before giving up,  and each hunter can see about 150 feet to the left right and forward,
then pure out-of-the-ass numbers gives me about 2,700 square miles of ground covered during the challenge.

The Everglades are about 4,300 square miles. If the hunt covered over half the ground of the Everglades and resulted in 50 dead snakes, then yeah, bullshiat. There aren't 150,000.

And if you have an apex predator that's 20 feet long, how in the flying fark would you have 150,000 of them in a 4,300 square mile area? A mountain lion or a bear needs thousands of acres -- at least a few square miles -- of territory to feed itself. That's .0287 square miles per python.  There shouldn't be anything bigger than a cricket left in the Everglades.


The pythons come out into the open when it's cold.  They will crawl out at night to absorb warmth from the roads.  If you are on any of the Everglades roads around sunrise on a day that's below about 55, they will be all over the street absorbing heat. Super easy to hunt pythons like that when its cold because their metabolism is low, they can't run away and they are easy to find.  When it is as warm as its been down here, they can get enough warmth in their holes or even in the water.  In that case, they usually stay hidden in the many super dense stands of sawgrass and cattail that blanket the environment. And that's why they are hard to find.

Even in the dry season (currently) most of the Everglades are covered by water.  The parts that are dry is are still inaccessible prairies of sawgrass and muck or fields of solution-hole riddled limestone, a guaranteed broken ankle.  Pythons are actually good swimmers and the only way to access the majority of the Everglades is with airboat.  Most of the hunters are following the same roads and levees as each other, so don't imagine that they have all gotten together to build an efficient search pattern; they are all hunting the same stretch of US 41 and US 27.  There's no way that any of them are walking more than a few miles in the everglades, and due the dense vegetation, they wouldn't be able to see the ground more than a foot (or even inches) from where their feet land.

And the 20 foot pythons are rarities.  Most of them are still small; below 6 feet.  Those don't make the news, so people have this warped idea of easily finding a giant python.

I actually think its a miracle that they've gotten 50 and that there have been no human fatalities.
 
2013-02-10 12:01:59 PM

DanInKansas: TFA states that because it's warm the pythons don't need to be out in the open. Wait, what?

1)  Why would these critters be hiding? It's not like they have predators to fear.  A hawk isn't going to swoop down on a 10-foot python and carry it off.

2) I'm no biologist, but wouldn't a cold-blooded animal want to be out and looking for prey when it's warm?

Article also states that the hunters in question have no idea how to hunt for pythons.  I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop -- well, Mr. SmartyPants, just how does one hunt for pythons? Baiting a clearing with corn and a salt lick? A turkey caller made with slate and a turtle shell?

If you have 1,500 guys with guns walking 2 to 20 miles a day, and each hunter devotes an average of 3 days to the hunt before giving up,  and each hunter can see about 150 feet to the left right and forward,
then pure out-of-the-ass numbers gives me about 2,700 square miles of ground covered during the challenge.

The Everglades are about 4,300 square miles. If the hunt covered over half the ground of the Everglades and resulted in 50 dead snakes, then yeah, bullshiat. There aren't 150,000.

And if you have an apex predator that's 20 feet long, how in the flying fark would you have 150,000 of them in a 4,300 square mile area? A mountain lion or a bear needs thousands of acres -- at least a few square miles -- of territory to feed itself. That's .0287 square miles per python.  There shouldn't be anything bigger than a cricket left in the Everglades.


i877.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-10 12:05:23 PM
They're breeding in the wild. that's bad enough of an epidemic. Of course we'll see how they do over the long haul our once in a great while gnarly winters seem to kill them back. at least the little ones.

Hypnozombie
 
2013-02-10 12:11:41 PM

DanInKansas: TFA states that because it's warm the pythons don't need to be out in the open. Wait, what?

1)  Why would these critters be hiding? It's not like they have predators to fear.  A hawk isn't going to swoop down on a 10-foot python and carry it off.

2) I'm no biologist, but wouldn't a cold-blooded animal want to be out and looking for prey when it's warm?

Article also states that the hunters in question have no idea how to hunt for pythons.  I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop -- well, Mr. SmartyPants, just how does one hunt for pythons? Baiting a clearing with corn and a salt lick? A turkey caller made with slate and a turtle shell?

If you have 1,500 guys with guns walking 2 to 20 miles a day, and each hunter devotes an average of 3 days to the hunt before giving up,  and<b> each hunter can see about 150 feet to the left right and forward</b>,
then pure out-of-the-ass numbers gives me about 2,700 square miles of ground covered during the challenge.

The Everglades are about 4,300 square miles. If the hunt covered over half the ground of the Everglades and resulted in 50 dead snakes, then yeah, bullshiat. There aren't 150,000.

And if you have an apex predator that's 20 feet long, how in the flying fark would you have 150,000 of them in a 4,300 square mile area? A mountain lion or a bear needs thousands of acres -- at least a few square miles -- of territory to feed itself. That's .0287 square miles per python.  There shouldn't be anything bigger than a cricket left in the Everglades.




One glaring error: it's the Everglades. Your 150' line of sight is WAY off. Considering you're looking for naturally camouflaged snakes in tall grass and reeds I would say the true distance is more like 5'. 10' would really be pushing it. I think instead of covering 50% of the Everglades, they covered more like 1.5%. And that's assuming there weren't groups that mistakenly checked the same territory that other groups had already checked.

I'm not saying the numbers of pythons may be overestimated, though.
 
2013-02-10 12:14:13 PM
Sorry, I meant: "One of the glaring errors."
 
2013-02-10 12:24:16 PM
There shouldn't be ANY Pythons in the swamps.

Folks can't seem to get that through their heads. We've need regulation on exotic pets in this nation for decades, and the government just ignores it. The Brits have some of the strictest regulations in the world about the importation of pets and they're not facing an explosive population of huge snakes, 'cute' Iguanas which grow up to be big, ill tempered, bird eating things, or Piranha in some of their rivers.

As for the feral cats, here again stupid reigns supreme. The average life of a house cat allowed outside is around 5 years. The life of an inside cat can be 10 to 15. Tourists and locals have chosen the Everglades to dump off their unwanted cats and dogs, creating a major problem. Not only for the pets, which soon get eaten, especially if they're small, but for the out of control breeding.

This affects the ecosystem full of birds, which are rapidly becoming endangered.

Plus, it's heartless to take a pet, which depends on you, and dump it off in that hot, humid, nasty place, rampant with critters ready to eat them. Not to mention that many pets are rescued each week by rangers, who find them half starved and miserable.

We have pet shelters all over the state and the No-Kill facilities are increasing. Plus, a lot of folks can't afford the increasing adoption fees, but they'll happily take a free pet off your hands.

Who cares if the amount of Pythons was exaggerated? This hunt can be considered a pre-emptive strike against their exploding numbers. Laws need to be written to forbid the owning of huge snakes by the idiot average citizen.

Plus, Pythons blend in very well with their background. It takes skill to find them and it's hot and humid in Florida, meaning the snakes will not need to be out in the open, sunning themselves.

I'd say a sure way to get rid of them is to eat the buggers and use their hides. However, we did that with Gators, and now we have gator farms, thriving, which are required to release a percentage of their raised product back into the swamps, meaning gators show up everywhere.

That concept kind of backfired.
 
2013-02-10 12:24:51 PM

Dahnkster: [img.photobucket.com image 430x322]


thanks, I needed that
 
2013-02-10 12:31:15 PM
Diurnal, bipedal primates have a difficult time capturing nocturnal, semi-aquatic Boidae?

/whodathunkit?
 
2013-02-10 01:17:02 PM

CatfoodSpork: The pythons come out into the open when it's cold.  They will crawl out at night to absorb warmth from the roads.  If you are on any of the Everglades roads around sunrise on a day that's below about 55, they will be all over the street absorbing heat. Super easy to hunt pythons like that when its cold because their metabolism is low, they can't run away and they are easy to find.  When it is as warm as its been down here, they can get enough warmth in their holes or even in the water.  In that case, they usually stay hidden in the many super dense stands of sawgrass and cattail that blanket the environment. And that's why they are hard to find.

Even in the dry season (currently) most of the Everglades are covered by water.  The parts that are dry is are still inaccessible prairies of sawgrass and muck or fields of solution-hole riddled limestone, a guaranteed broken ankle.  Pythons are actually good swimmers and the only way to access the majority of the Everglades is with airboat.  Most of the hunters are following the same roads and levees as each other, so don't imagine that they have all gotten together to build an efficient search pattern; they are all hunting the same stretch of US 41 and US 27.  There's no way that any of them are walking more than a few miles in the everglades, and due the dense vegetation, they wouldn't be able to see the ground more than a foot (or even inches) from where their feet land.

And the 20 foot pythons are rarities.  Most of them are still small; below 6 feet.  Those don't make the news, so people have this warped idea of easily finding a giant python.

I actually think its a miracle that they've gotten 50 and that there have been no human fatalities.


Thank you!  This actually makes sense.
 
2013-02-10 01:29:11 PM

RDixon: I have a niece who had a python pet in the mid 90s.
19 feet long.
She fed him a large rabbit once every 3 months.
She lived in a 14 x 85 mobile home at the time.
He went missing one time during the winter.
I helped her boyfriend search the place and we did not find him.
3 days later she was awakened by a lot of noise.
He was on top of the kitchen cabinets knocking off her antique tin can collection in the middle of the night.

So I'm not suprised at all at the low number of found snakes during the hunt.


At the time was the boyfriend laying awake at night in bed cuddling a shotgun while drenched in sweat waiting for the snake to come "snuggle".  Snakes arent pets any more than fish are pets.
 
2013-02-10 01:46:55 PM
So where are all the snakes?

Tallahassee.
 
2013-02-10 02:26:19 PM
At the coldest time of year the snakes are less active, thus less likely to be flushed-out into the sight of hunters. I think they should have consulted someone like an exotic animal veterinarian before they decided when to hold the hunt. I can picture the snakes holed-up under large immovable things.
 
2013-02-10 04:49:50 PM

dogblue: At the coldest time of year the snakes are less active, thus less likely to be flushed-out into the sight of hunters. I think they should have consulted someone like an exotic animal veterinarian before they decided when to hold the hunt. I can picture the snakes holed-up under large immovable things.


They did a study on Burmese Pythons in either South Carolina or Georgia and found that the pythons do not have the sense to seek shelter from the cold due to being a tropical snake. Also suggests that south Florida really is the only place in the US they are capable of surviving.
 
2013-02-10 06:29:53 PM

DanInKansas: If you have 1,500 guys with guns walking 2 to 20 miles a day, and each hunter devotes an average of 3 days to the hunt before giving up, and each hunter can see about 150 feet to the left right and forward,
then pure out-of-the-ass numbers gives me about 2,700 square miles of ground covered during the challenge.


You are assuming they all covered different areas. That may not be the case here. It is possible they covered 100 square miles. Or 50. Or 10.

Just sayin
 
2013-02-10 06:33:00 PM

DanInKansas: If there are 150,000 of these guys being scared off their perches by the stamping of feet through the brush, shouldn't you have at least some pythons being scared directly into the path of another Cletus/JimBob?


If you use the figures from your previous post then no one would be crossing anybody elses path.

You need to be consistent here. After all, it is fark you are talking to.
 
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