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(C|Net)   Ob/gyn complains about unnamed patient's lack of punctuality on-line. To the mommy warriors, that's evidence that she's unfit to be a doctor   (news.cnet.com) divider line 73
    More: Stupid, Facebook, Mercy Medical Center  
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7020 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Feb 2013 at 7:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-10 12:58:35 AM
Granted the doctor didn't breach doctor/patient confidentiality, but posting about patients on Facebook is unprofessional.
 
2013-02-10 02:03:14 AM
She might not have violated the patient's confidentiality, but she sure seems liable to.  Let her ass go.

/I'll also argue that a refusal to be on time for anything shows unfitness to be a parent as well
 
2013-02-10 07:18:51 AM
Not sure Facebook is the way to go, but a patient that shows up hours late for a delivery is a problem-not just for the doctor, but for all the support staff, the facility, and any other patients scheduled that day.

And The My Little Pony Killer is right- no doubt the kid will have the same consideration for others as the parent
 
2013-02-10 07:54:33 AM

Bathia_Mapes: Granted the doctor didn't breach doctor/patient confidentiality, but posting about patients on Facebook is unprofessional.


I agree. My mom's best friend is also my wife & son's GP, and she really has to go out of  her way to make sure NOTHING gets mentioned to mom about Mrs. Gortex and Gortex Jr. She can't even tell mom that they've been into the office, lest it give some sort of patient info away.

The medical profession has tremendous privilege and honour in our society, but only because they're supposed to stick to a strict code of ethics and standards.
 
2013-02-10 07:56:48 AM
A doctor complaining about punctuality?

LAWL
 
2013-02-10 07:59:11 AM

mr_a: Not sure Facebook is the way to go, but a patient that shows up hours late for a delivery is a problem-not just for the doctor, but for all the support staff, the facility, and any other patients scheduled that day.

And The My Little Pony Killer is right- no doubt the kid will have the same consideration for others as the parent


If the mom was going in to be induced, it looks like the kid is already late
 
2013-02-10 08:00:16 AM
Modern society is so special...wouldnt want to let people know the truth that we shouldnt tolerate people being selfish, inconsiderate assholes.

The customer is always right!

Any individual with a shred of foresight can predict the shiathole that the world will be in the not too distant future. And most people will deserve exactly what they've created.
 
2013-02-10 08:03:02 AM
People who are late are inconsiderate. Granted, the doctor shouldn't have mouthed off like this but people who are late are, in my humble experience, self-centered. This may be why she's outraged because, well, she has the right to be late because she's special.
 
2013-02-10 08:06:10 AM
There's a simple solution, really.  "Oh, I'm sorry Ms. Habitually Late, but your appointment was for 2:00.  It's now nearly 3:30. I have other patients now.  Just see my receptionist and I'm sure she can set up an appointment for you in, say, six weeks."
 
2013-02-10 08:07:48 AM
Chronically missing appointments is grounds for dismissal. She should have discharged the patient after the third missed appointment (which includes being 20 minutes late) and left her Facebook account for commenting about the weather.
 
2013-02-10 08:15:45 AM
Unprofessional, yes.  Worth getting worked up over, not really.  The headline, though?  I've got no horse in this race.  Not married, no kids that I was involved with the birth of.  Don't really date anymore, even.  I'm about as unrepentantly white male as it's possible to get.  Even I think the headline reads like oppressed white male butthurt.  Dollars to donuts this thread proves me out on that, too.
 
2013-02-10 08:18:06 AM
I've always been curious where the line between being professional ends, and where being a human voicing an opinion begins.
 
2013-02-10 08:19:26 AM
And just how punctual is the Doctor?

My dad's Doctor learned real fast that my dad would only wait One hour in the waiting room. After he left a few times they decided it was better if they just called him at home when they were ready for him. I cannot recall a single time his appointment was at its scheduled time.

One time he had a 3pm appointment, they called just after 7pm.
 
2013-02-10 08:25:58 AM

Maturin: Chronically missing appointments is grounds for dismissal. She should have discharged the patient after the third missed appointment (which includes being 20 minutes late) and left her Facebook account for commenting about the weather.


Oh, so much THIS!  Mommies, especially pregnant mommies, are a precious snowflake special pain in the ass.
 
2013-02-10 08:34:41 AM
Women are always late, they also hate to be called on it, end of story.
 
2013-02-10 08:34:55 AM

Spanky McStupid: Maturin: Chronically missing appointments is grounds for dismissal. She should have discharged the patient after the third missed appointment (which includes being 20 minutes late) and left her Facebook account for commenting about the weather.

Oh, so much THIS!  Mommies, especially pregnant mommies, are a precious snowflake special pain in the ass.


I'd consider paying real money for a "block all expecting mother/parent posts" on facebook. I can corral them myself, but I'd have to read them to do it, first.
 
2013-02-10 08:38:07 AM
So the patient is late. Maybe not the greatest thing, but not the end of the world.

The problem is this is how public shaming threads begin. It starts with a supposedly anon comment about an un-named person. Then come the internet sleuths who start probing and all of the sudden, confidentiality is breached. The doc just needs to back down when this happens as her actions could very well spur others as they feel empowered to expose people on her behalf. Also, we have only the word of a person who has a penchant for complaining on a public internet board. Nobody knows the real story at all or even if it is real.

This doc needs to stop treating her practice like some clubhouse and her patients as if they are the less popular kids her high school clique derides.
 
2013-02-10 08:42:28 AM

Bathia_Mapes: Granted the doctor didn't breach doctor/patient confidentiality, but posting about patients on Facebook is unprofessional.


Facebook is unprofessional.  It's a window into our private lives.  Yes, those messages may get out to the outside world, but only if one person decides to be a dick - the rest of the time, those messages are uniquely ours.  So, why should a doctor not anonymously complain to her friends?
 
2013-02-10 08:48:28 AM
homelessdude: So the patient is late. Maybe not the greatest thing, but not the end of the world.

FTA:  "She is now three hours late for her induction."  I'm sure the physician had better things to do with her time than wait for a patient to casually stroll in for a delivery.

Are there emergencies and legitimate reasons for being late or failing to show for appointments?  Of course, but any patient with a chronic history of tardiness/no-show should be dismissed from practice; it can and should be done in order to facilitate treatment for those of us who show up on time for appointments.
 
2013-02-10 08:50:40 AM
I was gonna be all like "wahh, she didn't show up in time to wait in the lobby/exam room for half an hour!" But three hours, goddamn.
 
2013-02-10 08:51:16 AM

thegreatmurgatroid: Modern society is so special...wouldnt want to let people know the truth that we shouldnt tolerate people being selfish, inconsiderate assholes.

The customer is always right!

Any individual with a shred of foresight can predict the shiathole that the world will be in the not too distant future. And most people will deserve exactly what they've created.


I bet you're a riot at parties
 
2013-02-10 08:54:39 AM

hlehmann: There's a simple solution, really.  "Oh, I'm sorry Ms. Habitually Late, but your appointment was for 2:00.  It's now nearly 3:30. I have other patients now.  Just see my receptionist and I'm sure she can set up an appointment for you in, say, six weeks."


This.
 
2013-02-10 08:55:12 AM

Spanky McStupid: Are there emergencies and legitimate reasons for being late or failing to show for appointments?  Of course, but any patient with a chronic history of tardiness/no-show should be dismissed from practice; it can and should be done in order to facilitate treatment for those of us who show up on time for appointments.


Hey....no argument from me on that one. Free up services for those who take the responsibility to actually show up. Logical, reasonable and the way a professional should behave..

It is the taking of the complaint to Facebook that I find just plain stupid. It is just an immature, passive aggressive action that solves nothing but to stroke the ego of the poster. Sure, the patient is an idiot too (if the account is true), but that does not give the doc the right to play the public shame game.
 
2013-02-10 08:55:48 AM

Notabunny: mr_a: Not sure Facebook is the way to go, but a patient that shows up hours late for a delivery is a problem-not just for the doctor, but for all the support staff, the facility, and any other patients scheduled that day.

And The My Little Pony Killer is right- no doubt the kid will have the same consideration for others as the parent

If the mom was going in to be induced, it looks like the kid is already late


Not so much, now a days.  Some parents schedule the birth to fit some purpose for themselves.  Kind of like the parents who have kids on 1/1 of any year.  The kid is due close to 1/1 and they want to be the first parents of the new year, commence induction.  Two of my kids were scheduled c-sections, but I only agreed to that because of complications.  I was fine with the pregnancy going on as long as necessary.  The wife on the other hand was relieved to get it over with.
 
2013-02-10 08:56:49 AM

hlehmann: There's a simple solution, really.  "Oh, I'm sorry Ms. Habitually Late, but your appointment was for 2:00.  It's now nearly 3:30. I have other patients now.  Just see my receptionist and I'm sure she can set up an appointment for you in, say, six weeks."


Normally that would be fine but this was for an induction (as in 'your baby is coming out today').  The doctor was probably at the hospital waiting on the patient & not her office so she couldn't see other patients to fill in the time.  I'd be pretty pissed off too if I agreed to meet a client of mine away from my office (where I can productively fill in dead time) & they didn't bother to show up.  Of course I wouldn't wait 3 hours for them to arrive either but I can see how a baby scheduled to be pulled out of mom may make the doctor want to stick around a while longer than normal.
 
2013-02-10 09:02:27 AM
This story should have stupid tags for both, the late patients who screw up a doctor's schedule, but also a doctor's office who schedules you but always makes you wait. I needed a medical procedure done one time and picked 9am to have it done. I show up fifteen minutes early, but the specialist was already behind schedule.
 
2013-02-10 09:08:43 AM
Let them biatch.  I would not want the biatchers for patients anyway!
 
2013-02-10 09:10:42 AM
I'm a mommy! Look ate me! Treat me special! I'm more important than you cause, I'M A MOMMY!!
 
2013-02-10 09:17:24 AM

Notabunny: If the mom was going in to be induced, it looks like the kid is already late


Yeah, it used to be like that.  Now they induce for any old reason: patient has plans, doctor has plans, Mom wants an aquarius, etc.
 
2013-02-10 09:27:40 AM
Since when did "Professional" become the same as "Be nice to everyone's feelings?"

Here's where someone deserves a biatch-slap, from the article: "She should not be allowed to work with patients if she callously talks about them on her own Facebook page. " If I had to deal with customers like that, I'd be complaining too. Furthermore, to miss "Heather Tiedemann", you are never again allowed to complain about long waits for a doctor appointment. There not being enough doctors is because of people like you.
 
2013-02-10 09:28:21 AM
As a physician myself, I've caught myself wanting to vent and biatch many times, and to be honest, I have once. However, I've never mentioned names, I waited two weeks AFTER the incident, and it was a generalization. As physicians we need to be EXTREMELY careful what we say, and how we say it, if at all on social media. Personally, I give the OBGYN a pass, but I'm also biased. For patients that are habitually late, I make sure they are given either a very early appointment or a very late appointment. If they are late in the morning, no biggie, we work them in. For the last or next to last appointment, my policy is that I stick around for 30 mins after the last scheduled appointment for the day. If there is no phone call letting us know they are running late, and 30 mins have passed, I am legally within my right to leave, and I do. I would say that 90% of them that do eventually show up after I leave understand and make damn well sure they are not late again. Some never learn. Regardless, biatching about it on social media is only going to bite you in the ass, which is why I haven't done it a second time.
 
2013-02-10 09:30:25 AM

homelessdude: Spanky McStupid: Are there emergencies and legitimate reasons for being late or failing to show for appointments?  Of course, but any patient with a chronic history of tardiness/no-show should be dismissed from practice; it can and should be done in order to facilitate treatment for those of us who show up on time for appointments.

Hey....no argument from me on that one. Free up services for those who take the responsibility to actually show up. Logical, reasonable and the way a professional should behave..

It is the taking of the complaint to Facebook that I find just plain stupid. It is just an immature, passive aggressive action that solves nothing but to stroke the ego of the poster. Sure, the patient is an idiot too (if the account is true), but that does not give the doc the right to play the public shame game.


Okay, so the doctor was immature and passive aggressive. She still does her job. Also, the doctor did not 'play the public shame game.' She complained about a person she did not identify. She's still a doctor, doing her job, and being treated disrespectfully by people wasting her time is something to complain about. Or would you rather that instead of just griping about it on Facebook, she takes it out on her patients by being passive-aggressive to THEM?
 
2013-02-10 09:32:01 AM
On the other hand maybe now the doctor will understand the frustration of patients who arrive on time for appointments and still wait 3 or more hours to be seen. Happened to me several times and, no, I don't go to that doctor any more.
 
2013-02-10 09:32:23 AM
I'm in the "a doctor is complaining about waiting??!?" camp. Then again, the place where I work schedules infusions at a certain time. We have several patients who show up whenever the fark they want, including 2 minutes after opening, even if their appointment is scheduled for 3pm. Consideration, both professional and clientele, has gone out the farking window.
 
2013-02-10 09:33:12 AM
Now that Facebook is not merely woven into the social fabric but actually constitutes it, we've become used to it being the forum for indiscretions.

That's perhaps the stupidest sentence ever constructed.
 
2013-02-10 09:33:35 AM
You're in business to make money doctor . You've not required to serve customers who cost you money. Tell her to find a new physician.
 
2013-02-10 09:35:48 AM
I refuse to feel any sympathy for doctors when it comes to punctuality- it's perfectly fine for them to makes you wait for hours, but they can charge you for it? One doctor of mine charged me for a missed appt (my children were sick) and harrassed me until I paid. I finally made up my appt, and had to sit there for two hours with my two small children getting into everything for him to tell me something he could have easily told me over the phone.

This doctor in TFA could easily have told her patient to find another doctor if she's that much of an inconvenience, but she did the dumb thing and expressed it on Facebook. I wouldn't go to her.
 
2013-02-10 09:49:09 AM

gaslight: People who are late are inconsiderate. Granted, the doctor shouldn't have mouthed off like this but people who are late are, in my humble experience, self-centered. This may be why she's outraged because, well, she has the right to be late because she's special.




I've never had a doctor be ready for an appointment on time. They are always late.

ALWAYS!
 
2013-02-10 09:56:31 AM

homelessdude: It is the taking of the complaint to Facebook that I find just plain stupid. It is just an immature, passive aggressive action that solves nothing but to stroke the ego of the poster. Sure, the patient is an idiot too (if the account is true), but that does not give the doc the right to play the public shame game.


That's pretty much ALL of Facebook.
 
2013-02-10 09:58:32 AM
If found out that my Doctor posted anything on Facebook, I'd find a new doctor.

You're supposed to be a professional, not a gossipy hausfrau.
 
2013-02-10 10:02:07 AM
media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-10 10:03:35 AM
The reason this person was scheduled for an induction could be gestational diabetes. They mention in the article that she was late for NSTs as well. When I was pregnant, I also had gestational diabetes and had to go in twice a week in the last trimester for the nonstress tests (NST). I also had a scheduled induction. They don't want you to go past your due date because babies tend to be born bigger if the mother has gestational diabetes.
That said, I was always on time. I could see how dealing with someone who was chronically late with that many appointments would get on anyone's nerves. The doctor didn't mention names, did not break confidentiality, but was kind of dumb to rant in a public forum. Save it for your friends at happy hour.
 
2013-02-10 10:04:43 AM

bborchar: I refuse to feel any sympathy for doctors when it comes to punctuality- it's perfectly fine for them to makes you wait for hours, but they can charge you for it? One doctor of mine charged me for a missed appt (my children were sick) and harrassed me until I paid. I finally made up my appt, and had to sit there for two hours with my two small children getting into everything for him to tell me something he could have easily told me over the phone.

This doctor in TFA could easily have told her patient to find another doctor if she's that much of an inconvenience, but she did the dumb thing and expressed it on Facebook. I wouldn't go to her.


As a physician who has always attempted to run on time, I can tell you that even when we really try, there are too many circumstances beyond our control that can trip us up.  It's not "perfectly fine", but when a patient or two ahead of you has a more complex problem than anticipated, or breaks down in tears, or a lab tech can't find a vein or an Xray needs to be redone...what would you have us do?  If it's you or someone you love crying their eyes out, shall I remind them that my next patient doesn't think it's "perfectly fine" for me to take a few moments to console them?  To consistently run on time, I would have to remove my empathy from the equation and I refuse to do so.

Now, as to situation you mentioned, you might consider finding another doctor.  One that doesn't understand the sick children excuse is probably in the wrong profession.

Regarding the chronically late patients, hlehmann nailed it.There's a simple solution, really.  "Oh, I'm sorry Ms. Habitually Late, but your appointment was for 2:00.  It's now nearly 3:30. I have other patients now.  Just see my receptionist and I'm sure she can set up an appointment for you in, say, six weeks." Although in my practice, the receptionist would handle it & they wouldn't even get back in line to be squeezed in after an hour, without a call informing us that they would be late.  And if they are chronically late, I would dismiss them with a referral to another physician.
 
2013-02-10 10:06:21 AM
Let's get One Million Moms involved.  They haven't had much to do lately.
 
2013-02-10 10:33:02 AM

Securitywyrm: homelessdude: Spanky McStupid: Are there emergencies and legitimate reasons for being late or failing to show for appointments?  Of course, but any patient with a chronic history of tardiness/no-show should be dismissed from practice; it can and should be done in order to facilitate treatment for those of us who show up on time for appointments.

Hey....no argument from me on that one. Free up services for those who take the responsibility to actually show up. Logical, reasonable and the way a professional should behave..

It is the taking of the complaint to Facebook that I find just plain stupid. It is just an immature, passive aggressive action that solves nothing but to stroke the ego of the poster. Sure, the patient is an idiot too (if the account is true), but that does not give the doc the right to play the public shame game.

Okay, so the doctor was immature and passive aggressive. She still does her job. Also, the doctor did not 'play the public shame game.' She complained about a person she did not identify. She's still a doctor, doing her job, and being treated disrespectfully by people wasting her time is something to complain about. Or would you rather that instead of just griping about it on Facebook, she takes it out on her patients by being passive-aggressive to THEM?



There is no "or" except in your Either/Or Fallacy.

- She can gripe if she wants
- If she chooses to gripe, there are more mature ways to express frustration than Facebook.
- If she wants a solution to the issue, Facebook is not going to provide that.
- Biatching about it on Facebook does not inspire confidence in her judgment skills..
- If she chooses not to use Facebook, that does not give her license to take it out (whatever "it" is) on her other patients.
- And there are other options, but those are the first ones that came to mind
 
2013-02-10 10:36:25 AM
A doctor complaining about someone keeping her waiting... I just can't care.
 
2013-02-10 10:44:00 AM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: homelessdude: It is the taking of the complaint to Facebook that I find just plain stupid. It is just an immature, passive aggressive action that solves nothing but to stroke the ego of the poster. Sure, the patient is an idiot too (if the account is true), but that does not give the doc the right to play the public shame game.

That's pretty much ALL of Facebook.




It's simply a way to slighly distance yourself from society.

It's modern-day call screening.
 
2013-02-10 11:01:31 AM

pudgyv: On the other hand maybe now the doctor will understand the frustration of patients who arrive on time for appointments and still wait 3 or more hours to be seen. Happened to me several times and, no, I don't go to that doctor any more.


Some of it's certainly the doc (who - in the face of increasing maintenance costs and decreasing revenue - has to work 10 hours now to pay their staff/rent/insurance/inventory/etc.) overscheduling like an airplane - expecting no shows. And, like any job, an examination of the efficiency of the practice is important. Are certain steps taking too long?

Also, it's the patient who doesn't respect that they have a fixed amount of time and use the visit as a chance to chat. Although it's important to get a context for the problem, it's typically a professional - not personal - encounter. Talk about when your stomach hurts, but not about your son's soccer tournament.

--
When the government talks about decreasing Medicare reimbursement, something interesting happens:
If the fee-for-service doc uses half their income to pay for support staff and other things, and only takes home about half of the money paid into their business, then a 10% cut in Medicare doesn't result in a 10% decrease in take home pay. The support people/insurance/etc still get the same 50% of the business income - leaving the doc to take home 20% less pay for the same work.

This will make a substantial difference in how docs practice. Folks that don't want that pay cut will go do something else, or start to work long long hours if they're wearing golden handcuffs. Medicine is becoming a tough, middle class job.
 
2013-02-10 11:04:15 AM
chaosangel:
Regarding the chronically late patients, hlehmann nailed it.There's a simple solution, really.  "Oh, I'm sorry Ms. Habitually Late, but your appointment was for 2:00.  It's now nearly 3:30. I have other patients now.  Just see my receptionist and I'm sure she can set up an appointment for you in, say, six weeks." Although in my practice, the receptionist would handle it & they wouldn't even get back in line to be squeezed in after an hour, without a call informing us that they ...

Although, in my neck of the woods (Left Coast) there is so much competition - anything that gives the impression that your practice is intolerant (certainly the patient will tell their friends that it's your fault) is going to lessen your attractiveness.

And that shows up on Yelp.
 
2013-02-10 11:23:40 AM

reillan: So, why should a doctor not anonymously complain to her friends?


Because a Facebook page is not anonymous, and her complaints stay on their servers forever.
 
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