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(The New York Times)   It's this guy's fault your phone is so hard to use   (nytimes.com) divider line 43
    More: Interesting, Bell Labs, engineering department, applied psychologies, University of Cape Town, electrical engineers  
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8108 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Feb 2013 at 8:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-10 07:55:42 AM
And the pussifying of the world continues.
 
2013-02-10 08:55:11 AM
oops, wrong thread.
 
2013-02-10 09:01:10 AM
It's good for pretty much every thread.
 
2013-02-10 09:07:00 AM
This is the dick that make phone buttons the opposite of calculator buttons?
 
2013-02-10 09:42:05 AM
FTFA: International standard for ATMs

In Barcelona the keypad has a calculator style layout, I can't remember if it was like that anywhere else I have been in Spain.

http://twitter.com/StevenShorrock/status/129662441939410944  (Not my twitter)
 
2013-02-10 09:43:36 AM
John E. Karlin, Who Led the Way to All-Digit Dialing

When I moved and got a new number, I requested that my phone number have no ones or zeroes so I could spell something with it.
 
2013-02-10 09:54:40 AM

Actor_au: This is the dick that make phone buttons the opposite of calculator buttons?


 The rectangular design of the keypad, the shape of its buttons and the position of the numbers - with "1-2-3" on the top row instead of the bottom, - all sprang from empirical research conducted or overseen by Mr. Karlin.

Yeah, the dick who instead of going along blindly with the way things always had been done, did the hard work of researching the best way to do it instead of sticking with some arbitrary decision made by god knows who, for heavens knows what reason.
 
2013-02-10 10:31:45 AM
No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.
 
2013-02-10 10:37:44 AM
Social scientists?!

Clearly this is socialism related and therefore Obama's fault
 
2013-02-10 10:47:16 AM
Because this would be better?

cdn.idolator.com
 
2013-02-10 11:16:53 AM

Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.


I've always thought it would be nice if you could skip the area code if you're dialing a number in the same area code, skip the exchange if you're dialing a number in the same area code and exchange, etc. But I think, given the way that the phone system works, that would create ambiguities:

If your phone number is (444) 555-1234, and you're trying to call (444) 555-4321, when you enter 4321...are you done, and the network should connect you to (444) 555-4321, or should it keep waiting in case you're dialing (444) 432-1777? And how would it know the difference between that truncated dialing of (444) 432-1777 and a full dialing of (432) 155-3879?

/FYI: None of these numbers connect...I checked before posting.
 
2013-02-10 11:30:32 AM

Fuggin Bizzy: Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.

I've always thought it would be nice if you could skip the area code if you're dialing a number in the same area code, skip the exchange if you're dialing a number in the same area code and exchange, etc. But I think, given the way that the phone system works, that would create ambiguities:

If your phone number is (444) 555-1234, and you're trying to call (444) 555-4321, when you enter 4321...are you done, and the network should connect you to (444) 555-4321, or should it keep waiting in case you're dialing (444) 432-1777? And how would it know the difference between that truncated dialing of (444) 432-1777 and a full dialing of (432) 155-3879?

/FYI: None of these numbers connect...I checked before posting.


Isn't that what the "1-" is for? To tell the phone that you are dialing another area code?
 
2013-02-10 11:34:44 AM
Chevello

That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.

The consequence of using what I guess would be called a Big-Endian growth strategy. Need more numbers? Divvy-up an existing area and create a new prefix.

Back in the day, a local call was usually five digits (the last digit of the three-digit office code plus the four-digit "phone" number) or, in the instance of a single small exchange, just four digits. The MBTA had (still has?) its own exchange so a call to any of its facilities from any of its other facilities, regardless of their location, was a four-digit call. Probably doesn't work that way anymore.
 
2013-02-10 11:37:11 AM
Was he the inventor of the touchscreen?
 
2013-02-10 11:46:35 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Isn't that what the "1-" is for? To tell the phone that you are dialing another area code?


"1-" was to say "Phone, I am now making a long distance call. Please put me through," but with cell phones it's actually not necessary. You can just dial the area code, exchange, and 4-digit number and the network figures out the rest. I'm not even sure if there's such a thing as "long distance" in the US mobile network anymore.
 
2013-02-10 12:04:41 PM
Nay, it was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almon_Brown_Strowger we should be blaming...

Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.


10-digit dialing was prep for overlaying new area codes over existing ones. Telcos tried changing numbers based on geography in a few markets, but the public raised hell...businesses were particularly upset over having to change numbers on trucks, adverts, store signs, etc. They settled on assigning new numbers a new area code. Porting one prefix to another is a similar issue that is still problematic.
 
2013-02-10 12:27:25 PM

Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.


You forced it on yourself, or at least your neighbors did.  So much protesting over splitting area codes during the phone number boom of the late 90s that they have decided to overlay codes most of the time (2 or more codes covering the same ares) which requires 10 digit dialing.
 
2013-02-10 12:39:21 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Fuggin Bizzy: Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.

I've always thought it would be nice if you could skip the area code if you're dialing a number in the same area code, skip the exchange if you're dialing a number in the same area code and exchange, etc. But I think, given the way that the phone system works, that would create ambiguities:

If your phone number is (444) 555-1234, and you're trying to call (444) 555-4321, when you enter 4321...are you done, and the network should connect you to (444) 555-4321, or should it keep waiting in case you're dialing (444) 432-1777? And how would it know the difference between that truncated dialing of (444) 432-1777 and a full dialing of (432) 155-3879?

/FYI: None of these numbers connect...I checked before posting.

Isn't that what the "1-" is for? To tell the phone that you are dialing another area code?


I thought 1 was the country code. That's why sometimes you see +1 in front of US numbers
 
2013-02-10 12:51:41 PM

Larva Lump: Back in the day, a local call was usually five digits (the last digit of the three-digit office code plus the four-digit "phone" number) or, in the instance of a single small exchange, just four digits. The MBTA had (still has?) its own exchange so a call to any of its facilities from any of its other facilities, regardless of their location, was a four-digit call. Probably doesn't work that way anymore.


It depends on the phone system.  The big state university here has multiple campuses in different area codes, yet at least between the two main ones, you can dial between them with 5 digits.  5-1234 dials 812-855-1234, 4-1234 dials 317-274-1234.  From that, I take that you can pretty much set them up however you like.
 
2013-02-10 12:54:28 PM

moothemagiccow: Debeo Summa Credo: Fuggin Bizzy: Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.

I've always thought it would be nice if you could skip the area code if you're dialing a number in the same area code, skip the exchange if you're dialing a number in the same area code and exchange, etc. But I think, given the way that the phone system works, that would create ambiguities:

If your phone number is (444) 555-1234, and you're trying to call (444) 555-4321, when you enter 4321...are you done, and the network should connect you to (444) 555-4321, or should it keep waiting in case you're dialing (444) 432-1777? And how would it know the difference between that truncated dialing of (444) 432-1777 and a full dialing of (432) 155-3879?

/FYI: None of these numbers connect...I checked before posting.

Isn't that what the "1-" is for? To tell the phone that you are dialing another area code?

I thought 1 was the country code. That's why sometimes you see +1 in front of US numbers


It's both. I think that's why it creates confusion, and how I have to always explain at work, how to dial international numbers. (No, don't dial 1, dial 011. Yes, there are a lot of numbers. No, just drop the first zero from the area code, trust me. Here, just let me dial it.)

Not to mention, every week someone comes in and asks "Do I have to dial 9 to send a fax?" Then they dial a 9, but not the 1, and wonder why the fax fails.

I think it would be just simpler to give all phone numbers in format +1 xxx xxx xxxx... (or whatever your country code may be) Besides, if you do any kind of traveling with your cell phone, that's how you should be storing the numbers in the phone.
 
2013-02-10 01:00:52 PM

DemonEater: It depends on the phone system.  The big state university here has multiple campuses in different area codes, yet at least between the two main ones, you can dial between them with 5 digits.  5-1234 dials 812-855-1234, 4-1234 dials 317-274-1234.  From that, I take that you can pretty much set them up however you like.

Correct... schools/hospitals/larger businesses/hotels usually have a Centrex-type phone system where the local telco assigns them a block of xthousand numbers. The number of digits you dial from the customer side of the centrex is determined by the options set by the vendor/owner of the centrex.


moothemagiccow: Debeo Summa Credo: Isn't that what the "1-" is for? To tell the phone that you are dialing another area code?

I thought 1 was the country code. That's why sometimes you see +1 in front of US numbers


"1" signifies that the next three digits are the area code, "011" signifies the following digits are a country code (in the US, anyway).
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-10 01:01:32 PM
I wish we had more human factors experts and one of them testified as an expert witness and convinced the courts that the lawyers who overload us with so many warnings that we ignore them all should be executed in a painful and public manner.
 
2013-02-10 01:18:22 PM

Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.


No kidding. Having a phone system that can't "assume" I'm dialing within the same area code if I don't specifically dial a different one is right up there with Data not being able to use contractions. It just doesn't make sense to me.
 
2013-02-10 01:33:55 PM

Barricaded Gunman: Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.

No kidding. Having a phone system that can't "assume" I'm dialing within the same area code if I don't specifically dial a different one is right up there with Data not being able to use contractions. It just doesn't make sense to me.


But now the same geographic area can have multiple area codes, so that won't work anymore.
 
2013-02-10 01:45:23 PM

JonBuck: Barricaded Gunman: Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.

No kidding. Having a phone system that can't "assume" I'm dialing within the same area code if I don't specifically dial a different one is right up there with Data not being able to use contractions. It just doesn't make sense to me.

But now the same geographic area can have multiple area codes, so that won't work anymore.


Why not? I'm dialing from 215-XXX-XXXX to 215-YXY-ZZYQ, can't it just assume that since I didn't hit 1 at the beginning that I don't want 267-YXY-ZZYQ?
 
2013-02-10 02:02:55 PM
chupathingie:
"1" signifies that the next three digits are the area code, "011" signifies the following digits are a country code (in the US, anyway).

But dialing from outside the US it IS the country code for US.
 
2013-02-10 02:08:15 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Was he the inventor of the touchscreen?


Hangings too good for him! Burnings too good for him!
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-10 02:19:29 PM
Why not? I'm dialing from 215-XXX-XXXX to 215-YXY-ZZYQ, can't it just assume that since I didn't hit 1 at the beginning that I don't want 267-YXY-ZZYQ?

FCC often mandates 10 digit dialing to prevent discrimination against new area codes.
 
2013-02-10 02:25:29 PM
I have no problem dialing my phone subby. Maybe there is too much drool buildup on the spit shield of your helmet?
 
2013-02-10 02:32:03 PM
"One day I was at a cocktail party and I saw some people over in the corner," Mr. Karlin recalled in a 2003 lecture. "They were obviously looking at me and talking about me. Finally a lady from this group came over and said, 'Are you the John Karlin who is responsible for all-number dialing?' " Mr. Karlin drew himself up with quiet pride. "Yes, I am," he replied. "How does it feel," his inquisitor asked, "to be the most hated man in America?"

Wow, them's some definite first world problems right there...
 
2013-02-10 02:39:59 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: Debeo Summa Credo: Isn't that what the "1-" is for? To tell the phone that you are dialing another area code?

"1-" was to say "Phone, I am now making a long distance call. Please put me through," but with cell phones it's actually not necessary. You can just dial the area code, exchange, and 4-digit number and the network figures out the rest. I'm not even sure if there's such a thing as "long distance" in the US mobile network anymore.


The 1 was so they could hand out the 1000x more local numbers by reusing area codes as exchanges.

Eventually 212-1212 could be a local number in area code 555, (555-212-1212) while 1-212-212-1212 got you New York.

All that went out the window when they had to do area code overlays because the exchanges had no more numbers. They made 10 digital dialing mandatory, even when calling next door.  It was the CLECs and mobile companies that complained that they would be at a disadvantage if they couldn't have numbers that worked with 7 digits, so they made it mandatory to have to always dial 10 digits to make the playing field level and to hell with the inconvenience to the mere consumers.
 
2013-02-10 03:01:51 PM

finnished: chupathingie:
"1" signifies that the next three digits are the area code, "011" signifies the following digits are a country code (in the US, anyway).

But dialing from outside the US it IS the country code for US.


That may be, but you still need to dial an "escape code" to signal the local switch that you're about to hand off a country code. Pretty sure that's applicable to whatever country you live in, but since it's a software-coded function there will be variations in different countries.
 
2013-02-10 04:04:42 PM
I don't know why they don't just deprecate telephone numbers and start mapping them to IPv6 addresses.

There's no ambiguity: when you dial  2001:0db8:85a3:0000:0000:8a2e:0370:7334 you connect to2001:0db8:85a3:0000:0000:8a2e:0370:7334, and that's that.
 
2013-02-10 04:15:08 PM

robohobo: And the pussifying of the world continues.


robohobo: oops, wrong thread.


Given the butthurt in this thread, I'd say you were in exactly the right place.
 
2013-02-10 06:40:04 PM

Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.


One of the many awesome things about Austin is that they've somehow managed to retain 7-digit dialing despite a huge increase in population and cellphones.
 
2013-02-10 06:43:31 PM

Tax Boy: Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.

One of the many awesome things about Austin is that they've somehow managed to retain 7-digit dialing despite a huge increase in population and cellphones.


Oops. never mind, apparently 10-digit dialing just started in 2013.

/Austin used to be cool, man.
//I blame the damn dirty hipsters and their damn dirty iphones foursquaring and instagraming their breakfast tacos.
 
2013-02-10 07:15:42 PM

Tax Boy: Tax Boy: Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.

One of the many awesome things about Austin is that they've somehow managed to retain 7-digit dialing despite a huge increase in population and cellphones.

Oops. never mind, apparently 10-digit dialing just started in 2013.

/Austin used to be cool, man.
//I blame the damn dirty hipsters and their damn dirty iphones foursquaring and instagraming their breakfast tacos.


I'd funny that, but I'm on mobile.
 
2013-02-10 07:37:48 PM
I dial seven digits for calls in the same area code and it works fine. What the hell is wrong with me? Is this just a land line thing?
 
2013-02-10 07:49:03 PM

sxacho: I dial seven digits for calls in the same area code and it works fine. What the hell is wrong with me? Is this just a land line thing?


You live in an area that does not have multiple overlaid area codes.  You and your neighbors and everyone in your general vicinity have the same area code.
 
2013-02-10 08:06:45 PM
you people have it easy. my discount cell phone plan is cheap but i first have to call Sarah at the General Store to get an outside line. if i don't half the old bitties in town listen in and know all my business.
 
2013-02-10 08:55:14 PM

Barricaded Gunman: Chevello: No he isn't. That's the character who forced us to 10 digit dialing. Seriously? I have to dial the area code even when I'm in the same one? Stupid.

No kidding. Having a phone system that can't "assume" I'm dialing within the same area code if I don't specifically dial a different one is right up there with Data not being able to use contractions. It just doesn't make sense to me.


And yet some people claim the US doesn't have crappy infrastructure...

+31 (or 0031) = country code
020 = Amsterdam
1234567 = phone number

+31201234567 will call the phone from everywhere on Earth.
0201234567 will call the phone from everywhere in The Netherlands.
1234567 will call the phone from within Amsterdam.

/It's not rocket surgery.
//Was overly enthusiastic and kept counting the number all the way up to nine.
 
2013-02-11 01:38:19 AM
"Most crucially, how should they be arrayed? In a circle? A rectangle? An arc? "

It seems to me that DTMF defined the 3x4 grid not any kind of industrial psychology.
 
2013-02-11 08:19:28 AM

Mr. Eugenides: "Most crucially, how should they be arrayed? In a circle? A rectangle? An arc? "

It seems to me that DTMF defined the 3x4 grid not any kind of industrial psychology.


That's a very good point, but it's possible that DTMF was designed around the grid that was chosen to be the standard.
 
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