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(ZDNet)   The two companies that basically owned the cell phone handset market in the early 2000's now have such a low marketshare they are lumped into the "Other" category in most analysts numbers   (zdnet.com) divider line 52
    More: Sad, Nokia, BlackBerry, accounting analyst, cell phones, Stephen Elop, handsets, Huawei, IDC  
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4606 clicks; posted to Business » on 09 Feb 2013 at 12:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-09 12:20:15 PM  
I switched from Motorola to a PrimeCo phone.
 
2013-02-09 12:39:00 PM  
This is what happens when you have party-boy CEOs who don't know when to delegate their responsibilities.
 
2013-02-09 12:47:37 PM  

BumpInTheNight: This is what happens when you have party-boy CEOs who don't know when to delegate their responsibilities.


Or expect protection from the carriers (In the US anyway)
 
2013-02-09 01:00:24 PM  
Meh - it's not a reflection of these companies....it's the fact that a 'phone' today has less resemblance to a phone than it does to a computer.  Cell phones today are tiny multipurpose computers that can do a million things and make phone calls.
 
2013-02-09 01:08:47 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Meh - it's not a reflection of these companies....it's the fact that a 'phone' today has less resemblance to a phone than it does to a computer. Cell phones today are tiny multipurpose computers that can do a million things and make phone calls.


That sounds logical, until you see how RIM and Nokia both tried, and failed, to evolve their platforms in an attempt to compete with whatever new gadgets were hitting the market, year after year.  They were totally reactive half-ass attempts, and the primary reason was all the new gadgets were a tiny sliver of the market.  Now the new gadgets ARE the market, and RIM and Nokia are flailing in the wind.
 
2013-02-09 01:09:12 PM  
Slack-jawed troglodytes and their flip phones and blackberries can go eat a bag of dicks. They are holding the rest of this country back by 20 years with their clinging to outdated tech. They probably all vote Republican, the savages.
 
2013-02-09 01:15:45 PM  

Cymbal: Slack-jawed troglodytes and their flip phones and blackberries can go eat a bag of dicks. They are holding the rest of this country back by 20 years with their clinging to outdated tech. They probably all vote Republican, the savages.


As a flip phone owner and coincidentally a black berry carrier I resemble that remark.

/I pay almost nothing for the flip phone and use it about as often as you'd imagine
//the BB is my work-leash and so I don't pay for that either
///I'm constantly in proximity of devices that can reach the internet and communicate, no need to pay $80/month for a redundant device that I have to carry around
 
2013-02-09 01:17:33 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Meh - it's not a reflection of these companies....


How is their inability to adapt to new technologies and customer expectations not the fault of the companies?
 
2013-02-09 01:23:58 PM  
Oh boy! A phone thread. Let's bring on the phone pr0n.

It doesn't have sharp knees edges and doesn't appear to be made from off the shelf components
s4.postimage.org
 
2013-02-09 01:39:42 PM  

Lord Farkwad: Oh boy! A phone thread. Let's bring on the phone pr0n.

It doesn't have sharp knees edges and doesn't appear to be made from off the shelf components
[s4.postimage.org image 619x450]


Is that Optimus G Pro pretty much the poster boy for what the article was decrying? Not that I agree with the fanboy article, which paints the iPhone 5 as the objectively perfect phone despite the fact that it is technologically inferior to a Lumia 920 that is a third the cost if you compare 32 GB models. The iPhone 5 has no NFC, no wireless charging, no true HD resolution screen, no optical image stabilization, and an OS that has a really dated user interface (outside of the notification shelf they stole from Android).

It's just not the perfect phone like they want to make it. For example, my wife has an iPhone 5, but I find the screen to cramped to comfortably use, where 4.5" or larger screen is perfect for me because I can comfortably type with my thumbs on the onscreen keyboard. You can't do that on an iPhone because it is so narrow. The same phone just doesn't work for me and her both because our hands are way different in size.
 
2013-02-09 02:02:20 PM  
As someone who was a stockbroker in the early 2000s that suggested his clients get in to Nokia, I'm not getting a kick...


/"surprisingly" no longer a stockbroker
 
2013-02-09 02:08:15 PM  
That's just how it goes. It's very well likely that the two top companies now will not be at the top ten years for now. Whether the top ones will be some yet unknown company, or perhaps someone currently on the market is the interesting question.
 
2013-02-09 02:16:31 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Lord Farkwad: Oh boy! A phone thread. Let's bring on the phone pr0n.

It doesn't have sharp knees edges and doesn't appear to be made from off the shelf components
[s4.postimage.org image 619x450]

Is that Optimus G Pro pretty much the poster boy for what the article was decrying? Not that I agree with the fanboy article, which paints the iPhone 5 as the objectively perfect phone despite the fact that it is technologically inferior to a Lumia 920 that is a third the cost if you compare 32 GB models. The iPhone 5 has no NFC, no wireless charging, no true HD resolution screen, no optical image stabilization, and an OS that has a really dated user interface (outside of the notification shelf they stole from Android).

It's just not the perfect phone like they want to make it. For example, my wife has an iPhone 5, but I find the screen to cramped to comfortably use, where 4.5" or larger screen is perfect for me because I can comfortably type with my thumbs on the onscreen keyboard. You can't do that on an iPhone because it is so narrow. The same phone just doesn't work for me and her both because our hands are way different in size.


I still can't wrap my head around the iphone circle jerk that so many people have. When the iphone first came out sure it may have been a leap forward in phones but now? I can't think of any thing that makes the iphone itself better. Lots of apps great. Seemingly frail hardware, updates that may or maynot cause chaos unless you have the latest phone, the trainwreck called itunes. Unless apple does something huge again I can see Android and even windows phone taking alot more of ex apple customers.

/fark i tunes
 
2013-02-09 02:19:20 PM  

Cymbal: Slack-jawed troglodytes and their flip phones and blackberries can go eat a bag of dicks. They are holding the rest of this country back by 20 years with their clinging to outdated tech. They probably all vote Republican, the savages.


I can't get rid of my blackberry because Verizon thought they were so worthless they attached unlimited tethering to it.  You can't get unlimited data plans any more, so I use it mainly as a hotspot.  It comes in very handy because I have to travel a lot for work.

Thank God work is paying for it.  I have an iPhone for my personal use, but you gotta watch those data caps.
 
2013-02-09 02:40:05 PM  
If only Neo hadn't dropped his Nokia while trying to get the scaffolding, things might have worked out differently.
 
2013-02-09 03:08:40 PM  

Mad_Radhu: The iPhone 5 has no NFC, no wireless charging, no true HD resolution screen, no optical image stabilization, and an OS that has a really dated user interface (outside of the notification shelf they stole from Android).


None of which are actually necessary to make a phone call.
 
2013-02-09 04:02:11 PM  

Mad_Radhu: You Ican't do that on an iPhone because it is so narrow.


FTFY
 
2013-02-09 04:13:13 PM  

mcreadyblue: Mad_Radhu: The iPhone 5 has no NFC, no wireless charging, no true HD resolution screen, no optical image stabilization, and an OS that has a really dated user interface (outside of the notification shelf they stole from Android).

None of which are actually necessary to make a phone call.


If all you care about is making a phone call, you can just use a Nokia 1100 (the best selling cell phone of all time), so what point are you trying to make? The iPhone doesn't make basic phone calls any better than a feature phone of 10 years ago.

The whole point of an iPhone is to be a pocket computing, media, and photography device. If it is missing key features, it isn't as useful. Some people won't need all those features, but some people really can use them. My point was basically that there is a huge cell phone customer base, and to say that the iPhone is the very best device for everyone reveals the author to be blinded by fanboyism.
 
2013-02-09 04:16:09 PM  

saturn badger: Mad_Radhu: You Ican't do that on an iPhone because it is so narrow.

FTFY


My wife has skinny little fingers, and even she can't use her thumbs in portrait mode on her iPhone 5. If she has trouble, that means 99% of people are going to be unable to thumb-type.
 
2013-02-09 04:47:33 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Some people won't need all those features, but some people really can use them. My point was basically that there is a huge cell phone customer base, and to say that the iPhone is the very best device for everyone reveals the author to be blinded by fanboyism.


Since most people wouldn't ever use the features you mentioned, how about "best for most people"?
 
2013-02-09 05:00:34 PM  

Mad_Radhu: If all you care about is making a phone call, you can just use a Nokia 1100 (the best selling cell phone of all time)


Yeah, they sell for $32,000 used.   Not kidding.
 
2013-02-09 07:42:08 PM  
I kindof wanted a tablet, but they were too big for me to carry around daily and wouldn't fit my pocket plus the lack of being able to make phone calls means I would need a phone anyway. Plus I was tired of typing all the time, so I picked up a Note 2 and it's honestly the best phone I've used to date.
 
2013-02-09 08:00:09 PM  

Lsherm: Mad_Radhu: If all you care about is making a phone call, you can just use a Nokia 1100 (the best selling cell phone of all time)

Yeah, they sell for $32,000 used.   Not kidding.


I have one of these.

It obviously isn't 32k worth though.
 
2013-02-09 08:10:20 PM  

Lsherm: Cymbal: Slack-jawed troglodytes and their flip phones and blackberries can go eat a bag of dicks. They are holding the rest of this country back by 20 years with their clinging to outdated tech. They probably all vote Republican, the savages.

I can't get rid of my blackberry because Verizon thought they were so worthless they attached unlimited tethering to it.  You can't get unlimited data plans any more, so I use it mainly as a hotspot.  It comes in very handy because I have to travel a lot for work.

Thank God work is paying for it.  I have an iPhone for my personal use, but you gotta watch those data caps.


Unlocked Nexus 4 + T-Mobile all you can eat data plan = Roving hotspot goodness.   I'll never go back to  a locked phone under any circumstances.
 
2013-02-09 08:45:56 PM  
Motorola Mobility is a mess too. $10 says Google unloads them within 18 months (but keeps all the patents).
 
2013-02-09 08:53:07 PM  

Rent Party: Lsherm: Cymbal: Slack-jawed troglodytes and their flip phones and blackberries can go eat a bag of dicks. They are holding the rest of this country back by 20 years with their clinging to outdated tech. They probably all vote Republican, the savages.

I can't get rid of my blackberry because Verizon thought they were so worthless they attached unlimited tethering to it.  You can't get unlimited data plans any more, so I use it mainly as a hotspot.  It comes in very handy because I have to travel a lot for work.

Thank God work is paying for it.  I have an iPhone for my personal use, but you gotta watch those data caps.

Unlocked Nexus 4 + T-Mobile all you can eat data plan = Roving hotspot goodness.   I'll never go back to  a locked phone under any circumstances.


I have a buddy at work doing that, but T-Mobile doesn't have any coverage near my house, so that's a no-go.  I'm stuck with Verizon.
 
2013-02-09 10:51:00 PM  
My 3 year plan runs out in mid March, and I am eagerly waiting for the chance to drop kick my iphone 3GS.  I got tired of the whole "everything must run thru the itunes forever" about a year ago.  And they pissed me off 10x more with ios 6.x.  Hmmm, we've got media player which plays video, music and podcasts...hmmm...lets take them all and make it so that people have to use separate apps for each of those tasks.  Congratulations!  We've just proven that whatever brains we had as a company died with Jobs and the people that are left are morons!!!

Will probably go with the Galaxy Note 2, I feel like I should support Blackberry to give the home team an advantage, but I can't muster up enough enthusiasm for it.  Besides I'll have a Blackberry for a work leash, but I can't load any other apps on it.  About the only thing that I'll miss from my Apple is the cyclemeter app I have.  Does anyone have a good recommendation for a android cycling app?
 
2013-02-10 12:01:40 AM  

valkore: Fark_Guy_Rob: Meh - it's not a reflection of these companies....it's the fact that a 'phone' today has less resemblance to a phone than it does to a computer. Cell phones today are tiny multipurpose computers that can do a million things and make phone calls.

That sounds logical, until you see how RIM and Nokia both tried, and failed, to evolve their platforms in an attempt to compete with whatever new gadgets were hitting the market, year after year.  They were totally reactive half-ass attempts, and the primary reason was all the new gadgets were a tiny sliver of the market.  Now the new gadgets ARE the market, and RIM and Nokia are flailing in the wind.



I think what you meant to say was, "until you see how I repeat whatever I found on the internet that sounds like what I want to believe."

I can't speak for Nokia, but working for BlackBerry I can attest that there is plenty of non-reactionary based thinking, development and effort. This kind of dumbing down of the situation does no good and only shows that you're more or less a buffoon who can't do anything but regurgitate "analyst" speak. Sorry to be the one to tell you that.
 
2013-02-10 12:07:38 AM  

daveinsurgent: v

I can't speak for Nokia, but working for BlackBerry I can attest that there is plenty of non-reactionary based thinking, development and effort. This kind of dumbing down of the situation does no good and only shows that you're more or less a buffoon who can't do anything but regurgitate "analyst" speak. Sorry to be the one to tell you that.


Having worked for BlackBerry, I will attest that it is a company of well intentioned idiots that didn't figure out what was happening in the market until way, way, way too late.  I've been at conferences where they were excited to be third in the marketplace.

Nice people completely done in by pure old fashioned hubris.
 
2013-02-10 12:13:16 AM  
You can say that about management all you want. The engineers, developers, etc. - the actual workers - that I met had nothing but ideas, passion and desire to make something awesome.

Sure, you can say that there were plenty of idiots but that is the same at every large company in existence. Cubicle drones are at Apple, at Google, at Samsung, you name it.
 
2013-02-10 12:16:44 AM  
Every company in existence didn't miss the entire consumer movement to smart phones, and every company in existence didn't miss it's entrance into that market by two full years.

The flip side of that coin is that those companies that *did* successfully navigate that sea change in the market were also filled with smart, talented, passionate workers.   They succeeded where RIM failed because they weren't full of "see how smart, talented and passionate we are! We're so cool!"  Rather, they gave the market what it wanted instead of insisting that the market really wanted the same old shiat they were passionately producing.
 
2013-02-10 12:28:01 AM  
Nobody was like that. Maybe you worked in some other crappy department, but in R&D, people were constantly concerned with what the competition was doing, what new things they could do, how they could do them, nobody was standing around convinced they were awesome. Most people had their heads down and were trying to do everything they could in an uphill battle against upper management. Yes there was plenty that held them back and got in their way. I'm not making excuses for what happened and much of the flak is well deserved - but applying it in broad strokes is unfair. I mean, talking about a company as if it is a "thing" is stupid to begin with. When you use that as a basis for your argument you kind of set yourself up for looking silly.
 
2013-02-10 12:37:40 AM  

daveinsurgent: Nobody was like that. Maybe you worked in some other crappy department, but in R&D, people were constantly concerned with what the competition was doing, what new things they could do, how they could do them, nobody was standing around convinced they were awesome. Most people had their heads down and were trying to do everything they could in an uphill battle against upper management. Yes there was plenty that held them back and got in their way. I'm not making excuses for what happened and much of the flak is well deserved - but applying it in broad strokes is unfair. I mean, talking about a company as if it is a "thing" is stupid to begin with. When you use that as a basis for your argument you kind of set yourself up for looking silly.


You know what smart, talented, passionate people do when confronted with management that is patently retarded?  They get the fark out.

Lazaradis and Ballsilli had been badmouthing the iPhone and consumer markets since 2003 and were dogging tablets six months before the Playbook was released.  And man, that was a hit.

Hey, which passionate genius engineer decided that having to tether it to your phone for email was the way to go?
 
2013-02-10 01:07:15 AM  
Engineers don't make those decisions. So you worked in IT. You didn't really work for the company. You worked "for" the company. Got it.
 
2013-02-10 05:57:18 AM  

mcreadyblue: Mad_Radhu: The iPhone 5 has no NFC, no wireless charging, no true HD resolution screen, no optical image stabilization, and an OS that has a really dated user interface (outside of the notification shelf they stole from Android).

None of which are actually necessary to make a phone call.


Yesterday I made three phone calls with my HTC Evo 3D.
Friday I made one.
I made zero calls on Thursday..
On Wednesday I made one.
On Tuesday I made zero again.

(Hint: smartphones are designed to do more than just make phone calls)
 
2013-02-10 06:01:05 AM  

Lord Farkwad: Oh boy! A phone thread. Let's bring on the phone pr0n.

It doesn't have sharp knees edges and doesn't appear to be made from off the shelf components
[s4.postimage.org image 619x450]


Two years ago, I don't think I woulda ever caught myself saying this, but for my next phone, I may get an LG.

Also, that article gave me some good LOL's.
 
2013-02-10 06:10:32 AM  

daveinsurgent: Engineers don't make those decisions.


THIS

I've met some fantastic managers who have brilliant ideas, but most of the bad shiat in products I've seen shipped was because a manager overrode what the senior technical guy had planned (as in, would not debate it, just said "this is how it's going to be").
 
2013-02-10 06:59:16 AM  

farkeruk: daveinsurgent: Engineers don't make those decisions.

THIS

I've met some fantastic managers who have brilliant ideas, but most of the bad shiat in products I've seen shipped was because a manager overrode what the senior technical guy had planned (as in, would not debate it, just said "this is how it's going to be").


It's a double-edged sword.  I was a BES admin for years and most of their 300+ security policy options were included, without concern for the user base, because the DoD requested them.  RIM would let you encrypt a phone start to finish even though it didn't have enough processor power to render the phone usable afterwards.  Some policies with great intentions, like turning off Bluetooth file transfer, also rendered Bluetooth inoperable with most other devices, which meant people couldn't use their phone in the car.

At some point there has to be a person who clarifies what the phone is supposed to be, and that's on the management end.  If the engineers were left up to the decisions, every phone would have a half-assed feature for someone that pissed off everyone except the user base it was designed for.  Blackberry Security policies read like the US tax code.
 
2013-02-10 07:10:37 AM  
I remember a few years ago Dell made a smartphone that got panned because it was too large, almost the size of a Samsung today. At the rate smartphones are growing the joke about sticking an iPad to your head will come to pass.

imgs.xkcd.com

I was considering making the switch from iPhone to a Samsung but the new droids are too damned wide. I have massive hands but I still need to be able to palm the phone and my enterprise grade barcode scanner. So after I washed my iPhone I didn't dicker around about making the switch, I just upgraded.
 
2013-02-10 07:35:33 AM  

wildcardjack: I remember a few years ago Dell made a smartphone that got panned because it was too large, almost the size of a Samsung today.


That was the Axim, and it wasn't a smartphone.  It was a too large, too late competitor to the original Palm devices.
 
2013-02-10 10:45:05 AM  

Lord Farkwad: doesn't appear to be made from off the shelf components


TFL: Often Android handsets fail to make it through the day, even with all of that extra battery volume packed into oversized devices.

wtfamireading.jpg

http://macdailynews.com

Oh. No wonder.
 
2013-02-10 11:16:59 AM  

Lsherm: wildcardjack: I remember a few years ago Dell made a smartphone that got panned because it was too large, almost the size of a Samsung today.

That was the Axim, and it wasn't a smartphone.  It was a too large, too late competitor to the original Palm devices.


Actually, that thing had OpenGL accelerated graphics and a good CPU - it ran Quake 3. Now that is something people are just now showing off with relatively current devices.
 
2013-02-10 01:19:42 PM  

daveinsurgent: Engineers don't make those decisions. So you worked in IT. You didn't really work for the company. You worked "for" the company. Got it.


Engineers don't make those decisions?  Do they make the decisions about using batteries in the Playbook that are impossible to charge if they go dead, or build the OS that take three farking minutes to start up?  Is everything someone elses fault with you?  Have you considered that you're just not as smart as you think you are?

If these poor impassioned engineers are so farking smart and powerless, how come they still work there?  Sounds to me like they don't do much at all.
 
2013-02-10 02:51:12 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: Lord Farkwad: doesn't appear to be made from off the shelf components

TFL: Often Android handsets fail to make it through the day, even with all of that extra battery volume packed into oversized devices.

wtfamireading.jpg

http://macdailynews.com

Oh. No wonder.


Right. Any news site that says something negative about Android or positive about Apple must be biased.

You don't even realize how brainwashed you are.
 
2013-02-10 04:35:51 PM  

bingethinker: Fggin Bizzy: Lord Farkwad: doesn't appear to be made from off the shelf components

TFL: Often Android handsets fail to make it through the day, even with all of that extra battery volume packed into oversized devices.

wtfamireading.jpg

http://macdailynews.com

Oh. No wonder.

Right. Any news site that says something negative about Android or positive about Apple must be biased.

You don't even realize how brainwashed you are.


Eh? Bias? Brainwashed?

My Droid X2 goes several days between charges. My wife's Galaxy III would too, if my damn wiener kids weren't constantly playing games on it. I've never heard any of the dozens of Android device owners I know complain about their handset not making it through the day. That claim sounds patently false to me. Therefore, that's where I stopped reading that article.
 
2013-02-11 01:08:44 AM  

bingethinker: Fuggin Bizzy: Lord Farkwad: doesn't appear to be made from off the shelf components

TFL: Often Android handsets fail to make it through the day, even with all of that extra battery volume packed into oversized devices.

wtfamireading.jpg

http://macdailynews.com

Oh. No wonder.

Right. Any news site that says something negative about Android or positive about Apple must be biased.

You don't even realize how brainwashed you are.


When the link has "mac" right in it, you can safely assume it's biased.

Also, you can't lump all Android phones into one category. Their are high, medium, and low-end Android phones. Some have 5" screens, some have 4" or less. Some have SD card slots, some don't. The beauty of Android is in the variety and getting a phone that's best for you. Some of them have ridiculously good battery life. I have an (2 year old) HTC Evo 3D that's usually at around 25% battery at the end of a ten hour shift. Several (at least 5) of my coworkers have a Galaxy S 3 that has 50% or more battery at the end of the same shift.
The fact is, the link is probably correct in that some Android handsets need a charge after a day at work. This simply isn't true with newer, high end Android phones though, and any studies will back this up.
 
2013-02-11 05:46:45 AM  
When the link has "mac" right in it, you can safely assume it's biased.

Thanks for proving me right.
 
2013-02-11 06:06:54 AM  

Fuggin Bizzy: bingethinker: Fggin Bizzy: Lord Farkwad: doesn't appear to be made from off the shelf components

TFL: Often Android handsets fail to make it through the day, even with all of that extra battery volume packed into oversized devices.

wtfamireading.jpg

http://macdailynews.com

Oh. No wonder.

Right. Any news site that says something negative about Android or positive about Apple must be biased.

You don't even realize how brainwashed you are.

Eh? Bias? Brainwashed?

My Droid X2 goes several days between charges. My wife's Galaxy III would too, if my damn wiener kids weren't constantly playing games on it. I've never heard any of the dozens of Android device owners I know complain about their handset not making it through the day. That claim sounds patently false to me. Therefore, that's where I stopped reading that article.


My Android phone dies so quick if I don't use a fast charger in the truck it dies in about five hours of playing music. I drive for 10-11 hours on a good day so I use a quick charger. If I'm not playing music it still dies in less than a day if not plugged in constantly.

/LG, not sure the model. Slide phone with keyboard for Straight Talk, made strictly for prepaid services
//will never ever ever do service contracts after working for Radio Shack for two years
///laughed when I saw the iPhone 5 for Straight Talk, $650 out the door for 3G service through Verizon's network
 
2013-02-11 12:20:47 PM  

BolloxReader: My Android phone dies so quick


Look for the "auto-end" feature of the task manager. By default out of the box, programs that you start on an Android phone run forever. The auto-end list allows you to specify a list of programs for the OS to kill automatically two minutes after screen blank. I have everything except Music set to auto-end, and it made a huge difference in my battery life.

HTH
 
2013-02-11 06:01:34 PM  
The reason Android and Apple are so popular now is because the major carriers push them so hard. Why? Because Windows and Blackberry compress data and that would hurt the profits of data caps.

I cant wait for the new BB to hit the US so I can use the Blackberry Balance App that partitions the phone into 2 parts. One for personal and one for work, and they can not interact with each other. I hate carrying 2 phones
 
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