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(NBC Chicago)   The machines are starting to arm themselves. It begins   (nbcchicago.com) divider line 16
    More: Strange, Carol Stream, machines  
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11318 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2013 at 10:11 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-08 09:36:05 PM  
6 votes:
There were likely more than 2 signs that warned him not to bring metal near the machine.

Some people think they do not need to follow the rules other people follow.
2013-02-08 09:31:38 PM  
3 votes:
MRI magnets are always on? Huh, learn something new every day. Some days more than one thing.
2013-02-09 12:02:15 AM  
2 votes:
Okay, looks like some farkers need a physics lesson: if you pump enough electrons through something for long enough making something magnetic, eventually, when you shut off the juice, it stays partially magnetic (you still need to turn on the juice to get the level of magnetism that MRI needs).  Did nobody actually learn this in school with the old nail-and-coil electromagnet experiment?  It took not a very large amount of curiosity while you were disassembling the rig to use the nail to pick things up, as it stays magnetic for a few minutes afterwards.

Second thing, this is the second time in a week that the Keystones have proved beyond a shadow of doubt that they have about the aptitude of barney Frakking Fife when it comes to guns (LAPD, I'm glaring at you). Tell me again why I, who has never made a major mistake with guns (knock wood), am not to be trusted with a 20 round magazine, yet these morons are?
2013-02-08 10:14:50 PM  
2 votes:
I always thought they were elctro magents that were only magnetic when they turned on the power.
2013-02-08 08:49:04 PM  
2 votes:
MRI's in all the schools, stat!
2013-02-09 05:02:52 AM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: g4lt: Gyrfalcon: rev. dave: There were likely more than 2 signs that warned him not to bring metal near the machine.

Some people think they do not need to follow the rules other people follow.

Not to interrupt all the righteous cop hate, but I'm willing to bet that the cop--like many others right here on Fark--thought that the magnet was only on when the machine was on, and since it was night and nobody was in the machine, he probably figured--like many others right here on Fark--that there was no danger in bringing metal near the machine.

[...]


Yeah, whatever. I guess that means at least two other people here on Fark are just  as blatantly stupid as that cop and I guess me and just as deserving of your scorn and hatred because we also didn't know that the magnets weren't on. CLUEBAT: it wouldn't have occurred to me not to take a metal object into the MRI room at night and I'm pretty goddamn smart. I just never thought about it before. Not everyone is as omniscient as you seem to be, no matter whether they're allowed to carry guns and you're not. Perhaps you're not allowed to possess firearms because you're not old enough yet--or you don't act old enough yet. Sometimes being polite and being intelligent are mutually exclusive, as they seem to be in your case. Yeah, whatever. I guess that means at least two other people here on Fark are just  as blatantly stupid as that cop and I guess me and just as deserving of your scorn and hatred because we also didn't know that the magnets weren't on. CLUEBAT: it wouldn't have occurred to me not to take a metal object into the MRI room at night and I'm pretty goddamn smart. I just never thought about it before. Not everyone is as omniscient as you seem to be, no matter whether they're allowed to carry guns and you're not. Perhaps you're not allowed to possess firearms because you're not old enough yet--or you don't act old enough yet. Sometimes being polite and being intelligent are mutually exclusive, as they seem to be in your case. .

Okay cluebat #2: when you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING.  It's pretty obvious at this point you're so far in the wrong that you shouldn't be allowed outside your momma's basement without an escort.  So I'm rude, BFD, life's ruder.  I'll tell you what, why don't you just go on your merry way, I'm wrong because I'm rude and be sure to wear a nice iron pendant the next time you go near a MRI machine.  With luck, the damn thing will decapitate you.  As for the cop, you want to know what's going to happen next time the clinic's alarm goes off?  Alarm Company: "Hello, clinic boss, this is the alarm company, we show a break in at your clinic, shall we call the police?"  clinic boss: "are you freaking kidding me?!  last time those hoof-handed morons got called, it cost us $BIGNUM to get the MRI company out there to retrieve his goddamn gun.  I'll take my chance with the burglars.  Tell them to send a black-n-white over in the morning, when we can properly escort the idiot, to take the report"  And thus, by being a COMPLETE FARKING MORON, the cop actually increased crime on his beat.  WTG.
2013-02-09 03:47:52 AM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: rev. dave: There were likely more than 2 signs that warned him not to bring metal near the machine.

Some people think they do not need to follow the rules other people follow.

Not to interrupt all the righteous cop hate, but I'm willing to bet that the cop--like many others right here on Fark--thought that the magnet was only on when the machine was on, and since it was night and nobody was in the machine, he probably figured--like many others right here on Fark--that there was no danger in bringing metal near the machine.

Because let's face it, several people here including myself did not realize that the magnet was still on even if the machine was off, and I would have brought a gun (or indeed any other piece of steel) into the room, warning signs or no. And had the same thing happen to me.

You may now resume assuming that the cop knew as much as any magnetic imaging specialist and only did this because he arrogantly assumed he didn't need to obey the signs because he was a dick cop.


Okay, this is getting blatantly obvious where YOUR problem lies, it's reading comprehension, the fact that electromagnets retain magnetism when the power's off to them is literally basic physics, typically taught in high school, remember me saying that?  This is getting an awful lot like the old helldesk story wherein a less-than-polite tech gets told "well, I wasn't born with a tech manual in my head".  CLUEBAT: neither was I.  I'm not a MRI specialist, I've never even set foot in a MRI room.  But it's blatantly obvious to me that taking a metal object in the same room where a very powerful electromagnet was running recently is a horribly BAD idea.  So this SFB walks past multiple warning signs saying not to take a metal object beyond them not only with a metal object, but a metal GUN, and surprise, physics catches up with him.  Yet this goombah is trusted with weaponry I'm not?!  Yeah, fark him, fark him with a football bat.  I hope the cost of recovering that handful of lethal projectiles comes out of his pay.
2013-02-09 12:05:37 AM  
1 votes:

g4lt: Okay, looks like some farkers need a physics lesson: if you pump enough electrons through something for long enough making something magnetic, eventually, when you shut off the juice, it stays partially magnetic (you still need to turn on the juice to get the level of magnetism that MRI needs).  Did nobody actually learn this in school with the old nail-and-coil electromagnet experiment?  It took not a very large amount of curiosity while you were disassembling the rig to use the nail to pick things up, as it stays magnetic for a few minutes afterwards.

Second thing, this is the second time in a week that the Keystones have proved beyond a shadow of doubt that they have about the aptitude of barney Frakking Fife when it comes to guns (LAPD, I'm glaring at you). Tell me again why I, who has never made a major mistake with guns (knock wood), am not to be trusted with a 20 round magazine, yet these morons are?


Why? because Move Along Citizen, that's why.
2013-02-08 11:46:04 PM  
1 votes:
BronyMedic:The only way to de-magnetize the superconducting magnets is to dump the liquid helium that keeps them cooled to the level of superconductivity. This destroys the superconductor, and can quickly suffocate anyone in an older MRI suite if you don't get out fast.

Pushing that big, red "emergency" button to do it is about a million dollars a pop.


You can ramp a magnet down without dumping the helium, but it takes awhile.  You won't have as much cost involved, aside from the labor and a little helium which may be needed to top off the magnet after servicing.  The big cost will be the lost downtime in imaging.  When MRIs can run several thousand bucks per scan, a couple days of lost scanning time can cost tens of thousands in lost profits.  Full quenching is an emergency measure and will blow about $20k worth of helium out the roof in seconds (let's not be sensationalist with the millions thing as that's just what they tell people to impress on them that it is very expensive and stupid to quench unless a life is at stake).  It's kinda impressive to see, but probably not going to happen for a gun.

The gauss lines are weaker the further you get from the bore of the magnet, and most small, hand-held items won't get wrested from your grip until you're within a few feet of the bore, even on a 3T.  A cop walking into a magnet room with his equipment would likely notice a strong tugging on his stuff before anything was taken by the magnet.  For most people, that's a good reminder of how bad an idea it is to walk around a giant magnet carrying metal.  But then again, a cop walking into a magnet room with his stuff after failing to notice the umpteen bajillion warning signs they have all over the place warning of always on magnets and no metal, etc. might not notice jack.  The bad thing is that his wallet was probably wiped the second he walked inside the room with it.  A very strong man might be able to wrestle the pistol away from the magnet, or they could winch it out or something and save a lot of money.  Best bet would be to disassemble to pistol inside the magnet, then extract it piece by piece until the whole thing was out.

This really isn't the big, bad, problem it's made out to be.  It's easily fixable by people with basic smarts about such things.  Oh, and the cop might want to get him a new gun after this, as that one is going to be heavily magnetized for several years if it stayed in the bore for more than a few hours.  I dunno if that would affect it much or not as far as workability goes, but it'd be kind of a bad thing to pull it out to shoot it sometime and there be a bunch of paperclips stuck to it.
2013-02-08 10:55:44 PM  
1 votes:

Albinoman: Doktor_Zhivago: Giltric: I always thought they were elctro magents that were only magnetic when they turned on the power.

Some are some aren't, depends on how they're made.

The newer ones are superconducting electromagnets... super sweet

/builds pcb controllers and sub assemblies for large german electrical engineering company

Pretty sure the old ones are too. The need liquid helium to stay cold enough. Seems like they could use the high temperature variety. Anyway, they're always on because it basically a superconducting wire in a loop. Send a large current into the loop and it'll just keep going round and round making a powerful magnetic field. Seems like something could be placed near the MRI to induct all the current away.


They're heavily shielded because any induction loss makes the magnetic field lose strength and starts adding interference into the image from the noise it produces (iirc) and the shielding also helps focus the strength of the magnetic field towards the patient and away from pulling down everything in the building around it. A lot of the older ones are either actual solid metal magnets (fancy niobium alloys i think) or they use traditional electromagnetic induction coils that need constant current input to function but they're not used much anymore as they can't even come close to the resolution or power of the superconducting magnets. I don't know how common those are anymore (never worked on them).
2013-02-08 10:48:38 PM  
1 votes:
believe it or not these hearty magnuts are not just out in the open without a dazzling amount of warning decals and such to make it as safe as possible. one typically has to access a few locked doors to find the prize.

i've wondered if companies/businesses give ahead of time warning to first responders regarding industrial dangers, and if they supplied building blueprints.
2013-02-08 10:37:48 PM  
1 votes:

basemetal: Good thing he didn't have any plates or screws for various body repairs.


or piercings...
2013-02-08 10:33:55 PM  
1 votes:
you homo sapiens and your guns
2013-02-08 10:22:26 PM  
1 votes:

Giltric: I always thought they were elctro magents that were only magnetic when they turned on the power.


They're always on. The only way to de-magnetize the superconducting magnets is to dump the liquid helium that keeps them cooled to the level of superconductivity. This destroys the superconductor, and can quickly suffocate anyone in an older MRI suite if you don't get out fast.

Pushing that big, red "emergency" button to do it is about a million dollars a pop.
2013-02-08 10:17:20 PM  
1 votes:

fusillade762: MRI magnets are always on? Huh, learn something new every day. Some days more than one thing.


http://info.blockimaging.com/bid/70133/How-to-Move-a-Permanent-Magne t- MRI-Machine-Safety-First
2013-02-08 09:37:49 PM  
1 votes:
Sounds like the plot story to octo-mom's porno.  Man's weapon sucked into large cavity and cannot be retrieved.
 
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