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(io9)   During its history, the United States were forced to go to war against many different opponents: The British, the Mexicans, the Germans, the Mormons, the KorWAIT WHAT?   (io9.com) divider line 92
    More: Strange, Mexicans, Mormons, United States, LDS Church, Latter-day Saints, plural marriage, western United States, Great Salt Lake  
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4800 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Feb 2013 at 5:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-08 05:18:35 PM
Get a brain Moroni! GO USA!
 
2013-02-08 05:25:46 PM
We were "forced" to go to war against the Mexicans. Interesting interpretation.
 
2013-02-08 05:28:06 PM
We only go to war if there is money in it for us. So, if Mexico had the money, we had no choice really.
 
2013-02-08 05:28:58 PM
FTA: "The Mormon people also successfully assimilated many Native Americans in the region within their religion and culture, with the groups living in relative harmony."

Hey! Stop that. Stop that right now.
 
2013-02-08 05:34:20 PM

eiger: We were "forced" to go to war against the Mexicans. Interesting interpretation.


I should say.  Shame we stopped the war on the Mormons, though.  At least the current cult has mainstreamed a bit.
 
2013-02-08 05:37:48 PM
"United States" is a plural?
 
2013-02-08 05:39:37 PM

cgraves67: FTA: "The Mormon people also successfully assimilated many Native Americans in the region within their religion and culture, with the groups living in relative harmony."

Hey! Stop that. Stop that right now.


oh please how could they interact with the natives, they didnt even have doors.
 
2013-02-08 05:44:07 PM

Satanic_Hamster: eiger: We were "forced" to go to war against the Mexicans. Interesting interpretation.

I should say.  Shame we stopped the war on the Mormons, though.  At least the current cult has mainstreamed a bit.


Yeah, at least they don't say stuff like "people who wilfully reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior will burn in Hell for eternity." ( paraphrasing a fundie relative of mine here)

I think in Mormon theology, most of us will wind up in "lesser Heavens", IIRC. We don't get our own worlds to rule like a god..
 
2013-02-08 05:44:08 PM

ArcadianRefugee: "United States" is a plural?


Used to be -- may still be, depending on the style guide you use.
 
2013-02-08 05:45:18 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: Yeah, at least they don't say stuff like "people who wilfully reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior will burn in Hell for eternity." ( paraphrasing a fundie relative of mine here)

I think in Mormon theology, most of us will wind up in "lesser Heavens", IIRC. We don't get our own worlds to rule like a god..


That and black people are kosher now!  :)
 
2013-02-08 05:47:46 PM
Seems to me the Mormons had a bit of a feud with the US gummint, with oaths of vengence and everything...

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,466021,466021
 
2013-02-08 05:51:57 PM
I thought we were through with the 'wait, what?' headlines.
 
2013-02-08 05:51:58 PM

eiger: We were "forced" to go to war against the Mexicans. Interesting interpretation.


Uh...History is pretty clear that they attacked OUR people on OUR land first. "Remember the Alamo" not striking any chords with you? The Republic of Texas, a sovereign country, with ties to America was attacked by Mexico, of course we were going to defend our brothers.
 
2013-02-08 05:55:46 PM
They tried to skip over the whole Mormon War thing in school.

/Still taught us all about our town founders
//Four men and their eleven wives
///Slashies come in threes
 
2013-02-08 05:56:22 PM
Yes, let's gloss over the Missouri war and the extermination order.

Still, this was a pretty shiatty chapter in US history.
 
2013-02-08 05:56:35 PM
They were hogging all the women, of course we went to war with those farkers.
 
2013-02-08 05:57:54 PM
That was after Illinois kicked them the fark out. Thank god we did that.
 
2013-02-08 05:58:15 PM

ariseatex: They tried to skip over the whole Mormon War thing in school.

/Still taught us all about our town founders
//Four men and their eleven wives
///Slashies come in threes


For what reason? And honestly, I've seen textbooks that treat the Mormon war, Utah, and the immigration west in 4 sentences. Whitewashing hogwash.
 
2013-02-08 06:00:08 PM

Car_Ramrod: That was after Illinois kicked them the fark out. Thank god we did that.


Yeah, stealing an entire town, the land, everything in it, straight up murdering leaders by mob rule, and then negligent manslaughter by turning people out in the middle of winter, then burning their temple is so awesome.
 
2013-02-08 06:01:43 PM

ArcadianRefugee: "United States" is a plural?


Before the Civil War it was the most common form. After, the singular became more common.
 
2013-02-08 06:02:26 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I thought we were through with the 'wait, what?' headlines.


Not news: Your dog wants confusion. C) . Just kidding, here comes the science.
 
2013-02-08 06:03:19 PM

Le Grand Inquisitor: eiger: We were "forced" to go to war against the Mexicans. Interesting interpretation.

Uh...History is pretty clear that they attacked OUR people on OUR land first. "Remember the Alamo" not striking any chords with you? The Republic of Texas, a sovereign country, with ties to America was attacked by Mexico, of course we were going to defend our brothers.


I don't have a GED in history but I'm pretty sure if I remember correctly a bunch of white guys asked permission to move to Mexico decided they wanted to become a State that wasn't really recognized by anyone then got themselves killed when Mexico decided to assert ownership of their land....
 
2013-02-08 06:06:27 PM

Kinek: Car_Ramrod: That was after Illinois kicked them the fark out. Thank god we did that.

Yeah, stealing an entire town, the land, everything in it, straight up murdering leaders by mob rule, and then negligent manslaughter by turning people out in the middle of winter, then burning their temple is so awesome.


I'm glad we agree.
 
2013-02-08 06:13:59 PM

Le Grand Inquisitor: Uh...History is pretty clear that they attacked OUR people on OUR land first. "Remember the Alamo" not striking any chords with you? The Republic of Texas, a sovereign country, with ties to America was attacked by Mexico, of course we were going to defend our brothers.


I hope this gets some more bites.
 
2013-02-08 06:16:11 PM

Le Grand Inquisitor: eiger: We were "forced" to go to war against the Mexicans. Interesting interpretation.

Uh...History is pretty clear that they attacked OUR people on OUR land first. "Remember the Alamo" not striking any chords with you? The Republic of Texas, a sovereign country, with ties to America was attacked by Mexico, of course we were going to defend our brothers.


Well, the whole thing about that was that "sovereign" is a tricky term. Mexico had the land first, and when Americans wanted to start moving in, the Mexican government was actually pretty relaxed about it, and had only one real restriction: no slavery.

Naturally, Americans totally ignored that and brought slaves anyways. Pressure built up as time went on, to the point where Americans simply decided that the land should be theirs anyways and declared themselves sovereign over it, which meant pretty much nothing unless they were recognized by another government. Mexico was actually pretty much entirely in the right to go to the Alamo to kick the squatters out of their land, heroic bravery of the men there or not.

Then we get to James K. Polk, who sees a great opportunity to straight up steal land from Mexico in order to get what we call the Southwest today, probably the first really open imperialistic act of the United States. Obviously, he has a good reason to do so, not only to get the land, but to protect the interests of the Americans that have settled there.

/American history professor
//the best thing of all that we got out of this was probably the James K. Polk song from They Might Be Giants
 
2013-02-08 06:21:00 PM

0Icky0: ArcadianRefugee: "United States" is a plural?

Before the Civil War it was the most common form. After, the singular became more common.


what? i've NEVER seen it written singular that i can remember.


/maybe i just auto corrected it into my head to be plural like makes actual sense.
 
2013-02-08 06:22:01 PM

Car_Ramrod: Kinek: Car_Ramrod: That was after Illinois kicked them the fark out. Thank god we did that.

Yeah, stealing an entire town, the land, everything in it, straight up murdering leaders by mob rule, and then negligent manslaughter by turning people out in the middle of winter, then burning their temple is so awesome.

I'm glad we agree.


Iraq must just be so satisfying for you.
 
2013-02-08 06:25:22 PM

Car_Ramrod: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I thought we were through with the 'wait, what?' headlines.

Not news: Your dog wants confusion. C) . Just kidding, here comes the science.


i483.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-08 06:45:51 PM
We can always work up a lather for any non-white or non-Christian opponent. (def. of Christian generally limited to "doesn't go to my church")
 
2013-02-08 06:49:28 PM
I think it may have had something to do with the fact that a ridiculous cult founded by a con artist managed to take over a state in the union and tried to not only turn it into a theocracy but refused to pay taxes to the federal government or enforce federal laws that did not agree with their made up book of illiterate BS.
 
2013-02-08 06:50:21 PM

Strolpol: Le Grand Inquisitor: eiger: We were "forced" to go to war against the Mexicans. Interesting interpretation.

Uh...History is pretty clear that they attacked OUR people on OUR land first. "Remember the Alamo" not striking any chords with you? The Republic of Texas, a sovereign country, with ties to America was attacked by Mexico, of course we were going to defend our brothers.

Well, the whole thing about that was that "sovereign" is a tricky term. Mexico had the land first, and when Americans wanted to start moving in, the Mexican government was actually pretty relaxed about it, and had only one real restriction: no slavery.

Naturally, Americans totally ignored that and brought slaves anyways. Pressure built up as time went on, to the point where Americans simply decided that the land should be theirs anyways and declared themselves sovereign over it, which meant pretty much nothing unless they were recognized by another government. Mexico was actually pretty much entirely in the right to go to the Alamo to kick the squatters out of their land, heroic bravery of the men there or not.

Then we get to James K. Polk, who sees a great opportunity to straight up steal land from Mexico in order to get what we call the Southwest today, probably the first really open imperialistic act of the United States. Obviously, he has a good reason to do so, not only to get the land, but to protect the interests of the Americans that have settled there.

/American history professor
//the best thing of all that we got out of this was probably the James K. Polk song from They Might Be Giants


Yep. I don't know why people don't know their own country's history.
 
2013-02-08 06:54:33 PM
Seriously? Who didn't know this?
 
2013-02-08 07:01:20 PM
Who the fark DIDN'T know we were at war with the Mormons?

oh.  Io9 link.  Internet for farking retards.(TM)
 
2013-02-08 07:02:51 PM

Arkanaut: ArcadianRefugee: "United States" is a plural?

Used to be -- may still be, depending on the style guide you use.


I'm pretty sure the current style guide was written by these fellas.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-08 07:05:03 PM

Strolpol: James K. Polk


The Napoleon of the Stump??
 
2013-02-08 07:05:46 PM

Strolpol: //the best thing of all that we got out of this was probably the James K. Polk song from They Might Be Giants


I got my standard sexual come-on line!

54'40'' or fark!
 
2013-02-08 07:22:30 PM

Le Grand Inquisitor: eiger: We were "forced" to go to war against the Mexicans. Interesting interpretation.

Uh...History is pretty clear that they attacked OUR people on OUR land first. "Remember the Alamo" not striking any chords with you? The Republic of Texas, a sovereign country, with ties to America was attacked by Mexico, of course we were going to defend our brothers.


I hope you said that with sarcasm, because the reality is far from that.  In case you made that statement with all serious, here's what really happened.  People were offered free land to settle the Texas territory if they swore allegiance to Mexico.  So a bunch of gringos did that.  Then they decided to wage a civil war against their lawful government.  They did have some legitimate grievances, but they were still in a state of rebellion.
 
2013-02-08 07:30:39 PM

eiger: We were "forced" to go to war against the Mexicans. Interesting interpretation.


Can't teach about The Alamo in Texas schools, because the Messicans might get offended.


//Harlan County War
 
2013-02-08 07:31:42 PM

OgreMagi: Le Grand Inquisitor: eiger: We were "forced" to go to war against the Mexicans. Interesting interpretation.

Uh...History is pretty clear that they attacked OUR people on OUR land first. "Remember the Alamo" not striking any chords with you? The Republic of Texas, a sovereign country, with ties to America was attacked by Mexico, of course we were going to defend our brothers.

I hope you said that with sarcasm, because the reality is far from that.  In case you made that statement with all serious, here's what really happened.  People were offered free land to settle the Texas territory if they swore allegiance to Mexico.  So a bunch of gringos did that.  Then they decided to wage a civil war against their lawful government.  They did have some legitimate grievances, but they were still in a state of rebellion.


Oh, no doubts about it, the Texas War of Independence was a blatant land grab war by a bunch of immigrant gringos who wanted that war all along, just so they could get their old Uncle Sam involved to bail them out and rescue them from the ass-kicking Santa Ana was giving them (and Santa Ana was kicking their asses quite handily).
 
2013-02-08 07:31:55 PM
It was surprising to read in Under the Banner of Heaven that Lincoln ordered cannon aimed at B. Young's home throughout the Civil War, just in case things went pear-shaped out West. That would have been quite the dull posting for those troops, but far better than the battlefield, all things considered.
 
2013-02-08 07:37:27 PM
Um... did you seriously not know this, Subby?  Did you go to middle school in France or something?

I mean, I went to a shiatty public school and we covered Young and the conflicts over Utah, Bloody Kansas, the Whiskey Rebellion, and all the other little mini-civil wars we had before the big one.  Where exactly do you go that those get whitewashed?

Strolpol: Naturally, Americans totally ignored that and brought slaves anyways. Pressure built up as time went on, to the point where Americans simply decided that the land should be theirs anyways and declared themselves sovereign over it, which meant pretty much nothing unless they were recognized by another government.


In all fairness, it was as much about the ending of the previously more or less open US emigration and a general impression that the Mexican government was reneging on the spirit of the deal by implementing stricter federal control on what had been a relatively independent territory as it was about slavery specifically.  They actually got around the slavery thing pretty easily by converting them all to indentured servants (legal in Mexico).

There were also a lot more efforts to find common ground than you're making it out to be.  Texas backed the Federalists in 1832, for instance, and held a couple conventions in 1832/33 trying to pressure the government of Mexico to give in democratically, primarily on the "banning further US emigration" issue.

I know that "in any given conflict, the statistically paler people are unrelievedly bad, and the statistically darker people unrelievedly good" is the popular thing in history for the last decade or so, but it is kind of a disservice to your students to present any revolution in those kinds of black-and-white terms.

//Even the American Revolution.  I have to admit the chuckle the whole "the boston tea party was an act of domestic terrorism" thing was mostly because that's pretty much true.  And I'm not entirely comfortable with the Taliban going from "courageous freedom fighters" when we were allied closely with them to "They're all bad, and we're bad for helping them" once we weren't anymore.  That's... absurdly creepily revisionist and dehumanizing of us.
 
2013-02-08 07:49:00 PM
In 2012, 66 Million Americans went to war against a Mormon.
 
2013-02-08 07:50:17 PM

ParallelUniverseParking: Car_Ramrod: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I thought we were through with the 'wait, what?' headlines.

Not news: Your dog wants confusion. C) . Just kidding, here comes the science.

[i483.photobucket.com image 400x349]


You should have gone with the HaHa guy instead.
 
2013-02-08 08:04:38 PM

Kinek: Car_Ramrod: That was after Illinois kicked them the fark out. Thank god we did that.

Yeah, stealing an entire town, the land, everything in it, straight up murdering leaders by mob rule, and then negligent manslaughter by turning people out in the middle of winter, then burning their temple is so awesome.


Sounds like what the Bible would ask
 
2013-02-08 08:28:19 PM
Sadly, the post-Civil War-era isn't covered as well as it should be in school. We just don't appreciate how badly we farked up the American Indians. The Mormons, I can allow some cognitive dissonance on, because they ran their territory as a theocracy and outright slaughtered non-Mormons on some occasions.
 
2013-02-08 08:49:05 PM
Eh, michigan history alone has some interesting tales of religious nuttery. We've had a king declare sovereignty over an island, among other things.
 
2013-02-08 08:58:47 PM

UNC_Samurai: Sadly, the post-Civil War-era isn't covered as well as it should be in school. We just don't appreciate how badly we farked up the American Indians. The Mormons, I can allow some cognitive dissonance on, because they ran their territory as a theocracy and outright slaughtered non-Mormons on some occasions.


For a while there, we were actually against religious extremists. Now, they're doing their best to run the show. Go figure.
 
2013-02-08 09:24:54 PM

brandent: ParallelUniverseParking: Car_Ramrod: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I thought we were through with the 'wait, what?' headlines.

Not news: Your dog wants confusion. C) . Just kidding, here comes the science.

[i483.photobucket.com image 400x349]

You should have gone with the HaHa guy instead.


i483.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-08 09:41:23 PM

Kinek: Yes, let's gloss over the Missouri war and the extermination order.

Still, this was a pretty shiatty chapter in US history.


Yeah figures the gov't couldn't do the job right
 
2013-02-08 09:51:45 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: Satanic_Hamster: eiger: We were "forced" to go to war against the Mexicans. Interesting interpretation.

I should say.  Shame we stopped the war on the Mormons, though.  At least the current cult has mainstreamed a bit.

Yeah, at least they don't say stuff like "people who wilfully reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior will burn in Hell for eternity." ( paraphrasing a fundie relative of mine here)


And why in the world does that even remotely bother you?  If you're a Christian, you realize that their opinion of your salvation is irrelevant.  Only God determines salvation.  If you're not, then why does that even remotely affect your mood?  If you're not a Christian then the beliefs that they have are of no import to you.
 
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